AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules for political content in signatures and user profiles. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Questionable State Highways In Washington  (Read 10021 times)

707

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Tucson, Arizona
  • Last Login: November 12, 2018, 12:36:41 PM
Questionable State Highways In Washington
« on: September 04, 2012, 11:46:25 PM »

Regarding state roads like SR 519, SR 513, SR 339 and SR 523 (all of which exists in Seattle), isn't it a waste of designations and state funding to put state highways along these routes? SR 339 covers only the Seattle-Vashon Ferry and the Vashon-Southworth Ferry, meaning IT DOESN'T EXIST ON LAND and doesn't connect to SR 3. SR 519 is currently a bit discombobulated due to the Viaduct construction and runs along Alaskan Way South starting at the Ferry Terminal and then heads east on South Atlantic Street/Edgar Martinez Drive and ends right at I-90's doorstep. Shouldn't it just either be removed or at least resigned as SR 9XX or an extension of WA 304 or WA 305? SR 523 ony covers a small part of 145th Street. Although it connects with I-5, it seems too minor to be a State Highway. And finally SR 513, which runs along Montlake Avenue, NE 145th Street and Sand Point Way where it ends several blocks north abruptly. Shouldn't it either be removed or extended to SR 522?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 03:33:32 AM by Bickendan »
Logged

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13569
  • fuck

  • Age: 10
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: Today at 08:03:22 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 11:56:31 PM »

Regarding state roads like SR 519, SR 513, SR 339 and SR 523 (all of which exists in Seattle), isn't it a waste of designations and state funding to put state highways along these routes? SR 339 covers only the Seattle-Vashon Ferry and the Vashon-Southworth Ferry, meaning IT DOESN'T EXIST ON LAND and doesn't connect to SR 3.
What's being wasted? Is there another route that would use the SR 339 designation if it weren't on the ferries? Would WSDOT no longer operate the ferries if the designation were removed?

The other routes you mention are typical short connections. SR 513 and SR 519, of course, connect the state highway system to the ferry dock and the university. SR 523 is debatable, but seems to be a reasonable connecting link.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

707

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Tucson, Arizona
  • Last Login: November 12, 2018, 12:36:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 12:09:37 AM »

Regarding state roads like SR 519, SR 513, SR 339 and SR 523 (all of which exists in Seattle), isn't it a waste of designations and state funding to put state highways along these routes? SR 339 covers only the Seattle-Vashon Ferry and the Vashon-Southworth Ferry, meaning IT DOESN'T EXIST ON LAND and doesn't connect to SR 3.
What's being wasted? Is there another route that would use the SR 339 designation if it weren't on the ferries? Would WSDOT no longer operate the ferries if the designation were removed?

The other routes you mention are typical short connections. SR 513 and SR 519, of course, connect the state highway system to the ferry dock and the university. SR 523 is debatable, but seems to be a reasonable connecting link.

Thanks for clarifying this for me. A different route that could be used along present SR 339 would be SR 160. SR 160 ends right where SR 339 begins in Southworth, and what is more interesting still is that SR 339 then uses a passenger only ferry to get from Vashon to Seattle (the MV Skagit). Also SR 519 doesn't connect to I-5. Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be renumbered as an extension of SR 304 or SR 305 (which end at the Colman dock enterance at Alaskan Way South/the start of WA 519) or SR 907 (currently unused) since it connects to I-90 instead of I-5?
Logged

corco

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4865
  • Just Livin' the Dream

  • Age: 30
  • Location: Boise, Idaho
  • Last Login: Today at 12:54:36 AM
    • Corcohighways.org
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 01:36:54 PM »

Quote
and what is more interesting still is that SR 339 then uses a passenger only ferry to get from Vashon to Seattle (the MV Skagit).
The M/V Skagit sank off the coast of Zanzibar a couple months ago. In 2007 or so the state of Washington ordered WSDOT to stop operating the Vashon/Seattle passenger ferry and the ferries were sold. 339 is still on the books as a state highway, but it's been abandoned for the last five years. 

Quote
SR 160 ends right where SR 339 begins in Southworth, and what is more interesting still is that SR 339 then uses a passenger only ferry to get from Vashon to Seattle (the MV Skagit).

State Route 160 continues to the Fauntleroy Ferry terminal. You could clean up a little by renumbering SR 519 to SR 304 or 305, but that's all you can do, and I'm not really sure what the point would be of that.

There really aren't a lot of good candidates for decommissioning in Washington. 908 is gone. I'd say 181, 523, and maybe parts of 524 and 527 and possibly 96 are the only state routes that don't have a super-visible purpose. That's pretty damn good for a state highway system.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 01:59:13 PM by corco »
Logged

kkt

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4507
  • Location: Seattle, Washington
  • Last Login: Today at 01:12:11 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 02:15:37 PM »

Regarding state roads like SR 519, SR 513, SR 339 and SR 523 (all of which exists in Seattle), isn't it a waste of designations and state funding to put state highways along these routes? SR 339 covers only the Seattle-Vashon Ferry and the Vashon-Southworth Ferry, meaning IT DOESN'T EXIST ON LAND and doesn't connect to SR 3. SR 519 is currently a bit discombobulated due to the Viaduct construction and runs along Alaskan Way South starting at the Ferry Terminal and then heads east on South Atlantic Street/Edgar Martinez Drive and ends right at I-90's doorstep. Shouldn't it just either be removed or at least resigned as SR 9XX or an extension of WA 304 or WA 305? SR 523 ony covers a small part of 145th Street. Although it connects with I-5, it seems too minor to be a State Highway. And finally SR 513, which runs along Montlake Avenue, NE 145th Street and Sand Point Way where it ends several blocks north abruptly. Shouldn't it either be removed or extended to SR 522?

In Washington, the ferry routes are state routes, and have numbers just like state routes on land.

WA-513, in its former life it began on Madison St. downtown, went up Capitol Hill, north on 23rd Ave., crossed WA-520 and began its current route, continued beyond the current end at Sand Point Way and NE 65th St. continued to cross WA-522 at 125th St., and continued to meet I-5 at 145th St.  (So that's why Madison and 23rd are wider and more gently graded than most city arterials.)  In northeast Seattle, it was important for a state route to access Sand Point Naval Air Station, a major logistics base from the 1920s to the 1970s with road, rail, air, and inland waterway access.

The truncated 513 is still important.  It means the state is responsible for the Montlake Bridge, eventual replacement of the substandard low-clearance pedestrian bridge from the main part of campus to the stadium, and heavier maintenance requirements of lots of trucks and heavy buses.  Just because it's entirely in a city doesn't mean the traffic is all local or that the city should pay for it out of their general fund.  I do think it was a shame 513 was truncated in the north, I'd have kept it to I-5, but for some reason the state did not consult me.

We don't seem to be desperately short of 5xx route numbers, are we?
Logged

xonhulu

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1326
  • Location: Salem, OR
  • Last Login: September 25, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 04:06:33 PM »

If length is a determining factor for route worthiness, then SR 433 would also be in trouble, given that it ends almost immediately at the foot of the Lewis & Clark Bridge.

I agree with most of the other posters that there's no harm in signing the short routes, and it's fairly novel to give the designations to the "marine highway" ferry routes.  Little oddball routes make the system interesting.
Logged

sp_redelectric

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 439
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Tigard, OR
  • Last Login: October 01, 2018, 12:11:09 AM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 11:45:15 PM »

I'm trying to figure out the purpose behind SR 501, other than that WSDOT wants to keep it in the state highway system because it is an intermodal route (whereas ODOT doesn't care, and thus you have streets like Marine Drive which are City of Portland jurisdiction but also an NHS Intermodal Connector; or Kruse Way in Lake Oswego which is a NHS route but not a state highway).

SR 411 seems rather pointless.  SR 409 is another questionable route, since the Cathlamet Ferry is operated by Wahkiakum County and not WSDOT or WSF (and the connecting road in Oregon is a embarrassingly, very poorly maintained county road.)

SR 500 from Orchards to Camas doesn't make much sense, appearing to be gerrymandered on a series of existing, formerly county roads.  Why not shoot SR 500 north to Lake Merwin and eliminate the SR 503 Spur (since it'd become SR 503 mainline instead?)

SR 506 to the small town of Ryderwood?
Logged

xonhulu

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1326
  • Location: Salem, OR
  • Last Login: September 25, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 10:16:49 AM »

SR 411 seems rather pointless.  SR 409 is another questionable route, since the Cathlamet Ferry is operated by Wahkiakum County and not WSDOT or WSF (and the connecting road in Oregon is a embarrassingly, very poorly maintained county road.)

I agree on both, and I've always wondered why SR 409 survived when the only-slightly-less-useful SR 403 and SR 407 were eliminated.  As for SR 411, the bridge at Lexington and the extension to SR 432 gave it a little more reason to be, but I still wonder why WSDOT just didn't eliminate the route when they truncated it to Castle Rock.

Quote
SR 500 from Orchards to Camas doesn't make much sense, appearing to be gerrymandered on a series of existing, formerly county roads.  Why not shoot SR 500 north to Lake Merwin and eliminate the SR 503 Spur (since it'd become SR 503 mainline instead?)

Or just remove the Orchards to Camas route from the state system and turn the remainder of SR 500 over to SR 503.  Then the 500 designation could be applied to one of the never-to-be-connected SR 501 spurs.

Quote
SR 506 to the small town of Ryderwood?

And why does it parallel I-5 between exits 59 and 60 instead of just ending at exit 59?  Did it need some additional mileage to justify its existence?  If that's so, why not further extend it up Toledo-Vader Rd to Toledo to end on SR 505?
Logged

sp_redelectric

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 439
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Tigard, OR
  • Last Login: October 01, 2018, 12:11:09 AM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 11:33:26 AM »

If length is a determining factor for route worthiness, then SR 433 would also be in trouble, given that it ends almost immediately at the foot of the Lewis & Clark Bridge.

SR 433 is rather interesting...because it is just the bridge.  Since the bridge is owned by both Washington and Oregon (WSDOT maintains this particular bridge), it does deserve a route number.

There is in fact an SR 433 sign located on Oregon soil, just before the start of the bridge.  However, the signs on U.S. 30 omit any route number and only point to Longview and Kelso (I think one sign might even say Seattle on it).  They don't even mention it is a route to Interstate 5.  On the Washington side, the signs simply read "TO U.S. 30 Oregon".

I wonder if SR 433, and for that matter SR 432 east from 433 to I-5, ought to be redesignated as a U.S. 30 Spur (or U.S. 130, or even U.S. 530).  I like redesignating it U.S. 530 since it connects 5 with 30 and also falls under both U.S. and Washington highway numbering schemes, plus being a true inter-state highway appropriately should have a U.S. marker.  The only drawback - there's already a SR 530, and I don't believe Washington likes duplicated route numbers.
Logged

xonhulu

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1326
  • Location: Salem, OR
  • Last Login: September 25, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 04:45:03 PM »

SR 433 is rather interesting...because it is just the bridge.  Since the bridge is owned by both Washington and Oregon (WSDOT maintains this particular bridge), it does deserve a route number.

There is in fact an SR 433 sign located on Oregon soil, just before the start of the bridge.  However, the signs on U.S. 30 omit any route number and only point to Longview and Kelso (I think one sign might even say Seattle on it).  They don't even mention it is a route to Interstate 5.  On the Washington side, the signs simply read "TO U.S. 30 Oregon".

I grew up in Rainier, so I've seen those signs more times than I can count.  I believe they say "Longview/Seattle," unless they've been replaced recently.  What always surprised me is that Oregon makes no mention whatsoever that this is the way "TO I-5."  After all, Washington bends over backwards telling you how to get to US 30 from multiple locations in Longview & Kelso, probably because it's a shorter and less-landslide-prone route to the Long Beach area than SR 4.

Quote
I wonder if SR 433, and for that matter SR 432 east from 433 to I-5, ought to be redesignated as a U.S. 30 Spur (or U.S. 130, or even U.S. 530).  I like redesignating it U.S. 530 since it connects 5 with 30 and also falls under both U.S. and Washington highway numbering schemes, plus being a true inter-state highway appropriately should have a U.S. marker.  The only drawback - there's already a SR 530, and I don't believe Washington likes duplicated route numbers.

I assume you already know that SR 432 and SR 433 were previously SR 832 and SR 833, when SR 4 was still part of US 830.  So your suggestion would be somewhat fitting, as it would restore a branch of US 30 to routes that were once state-highway "children" of another branch of US 30. 

Sadly, it would be very unlikely that AASHTO would approve such a short US Route, even though it would still be longer than the shortest-ever US Highway, the briefly-existing US 630.  But it would be pretty cool.

That WA 433 on the Oregon side has been there for quite some time now.  I've always felt it was either a slightly desperate attempt to make SR 433 seem longer than it actually is, or (more likely) someone took the easy way out, by putting it on a post at the first possible spot of dirt rather than attach a 433 shield right at the stateline in the middle of the bridge where the designation really starts.

Interestingly, Oregon apparently considers its approach to the Lewis & Clark Bridge to be equivalent to an off-ramp from US 30, so it doesn't carry an internal highway # even though it's under state jurisdiction.  So don't expect to see OR 433 in the acorn-shield anytime soon!  Still, stranger things have happened!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 10:18:58 PM by xonhulu »
Logged

707

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Tucson, Arizona
  • Last Login: November 12, 2018, 12:36:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 06:18:36 PM »

I had no idea ferry routes were numbered. Since that is the case, I'll accept SR 339. I know New York and Washington both number ferry lines as state routes (such as SR 114 in New York), but now I'm wondering, are there any other states that do this?
Logged

sp_redelectric

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 439
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Tigard, OR
  • Last Login: October 01, 2018, 12:11:09 AM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2012, 12:10:14 AM »

I know New York and Washington both number ferry lines as state routes (such as SR 114 in New York), but now I'm wondering, are there any other states that do this?

Oregon doesn't...but because the state doesn't operate any ferries.  All ferries in Oregon are run by counties.  On the Columbia River, the Cathlamet Ferry is run by Wahkiakum County, Washington; on the Willamette River the Canby Ferry is run by Clackamas County, the Wheatland Ferry is owned by Yamhill and Marion Counties and the Buena Vista Ferry is owned by Polk and Marion Counties.  Marion County operates both the Wheatland and Buena Vista Ferries on behalf of Yamhill and Polk Counties.
Logged

sp_redelectric

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 439
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Tigard, OR
  • Last Login: October 01, 2018, 12:11:09 AM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2012, 12:18:27 AM »

I assume you already know that SR 432 and SR 433 were previously SR 832 and SR 833, when SR 4 was still part of US 830.  So your suggestion would be somewhat fitting, as it would restore a branch of US 30 to routes that were once state-highway "children" of another branch of US 30. 

I didn't know that, thanks!

That WA 433 on the Oregon side has been there for quite some time now.  I've always felt it was either a slightly desperate attempt to make SR 433 seem longer than it actually is, or (more likely) someone took the easy way out, by putting it on a post at the first possible spot of dirt rather than attach a 433 shield right at the stateline in the middle of the bridge where the designation really starts.

Interestingly, Oregon apparently considers its approach to the Lewis & Clark Bridge to be equivalent to an off-ramp from US 30, so it doesn't carry an internal highway # even though it's under state jurisdiction.  So don't expect to see OR 433 in the acorn-shield anytime soon!  Still, stranger things have happened!

I figured it was no different than ODOT placing signs on the Washington shore near bridges that are ODOT maintained - for example, the "Speed 55" sign just before the I-205 Glenn Jackson Bridge (although I think it's been replaced with a "Speed Limit 55" sign) or the "Glenn Jackson Bridge" sign.  Or the Stimulus sign that said "Creating Jobs for Oregon" about a half mile west of the Megler Bridge on U.S. 101 - on the Washington side.  (In all fairness, WSDOT put a "Washington Jobs Now" on Oregon soil on the approach to the Lewis & Clark Bridge too.)

I knew the sign had been there for awhile since it was never upgraded to the 1980s/1990s spec green route sign.

On the other side of the state. there's a .6 mile stretch of old U.S. 95 on Lewiston Grade that connects the U.S. 95 mainline with U.S. 195 mainline right on the state line.  This short little road crosses the state line, with .5 miles in Washington and .1 mile in Idaho.  And, it is officially U.S. 195 Spur (although I don't think it's signed as such).
Logged

xonhulu

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1326
  • Location: Salem, OR
  • Last Login: September 25, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2012, 01:01:49 AM »

Getting back to the original topic, I think most states have some questionable routes.  Oregon certainly does.  Of course, it still has a lot of Routes that exist on paper only and have yet to be marked in the field; that's a different kind of pointless.  But even some of those that are signed don't seem to have much purpose.  Here are a couple Oregon head-scratchers:

OR 501 (Alsea-Deadwood Hwy #201): once planned to connect Alsea on OR 34 with Deadwood on OR 36, this never-completed highway now just runs 9.5 miles south from Alsea through sparse rural areas to end in the middle of nowhere.  Despite serving no real purpose, it's one of the post-2002 routes that's actually signed:



But at least OR 501 could have been a decent connecting route.  OR 260 (Rogue River Loop Hwy #260) is a 21-mile road out of Grants Pass that almost loops back with itself following the Rogue River before ending on US 199.  Again, there are no towns along the route, and it basically only serves some rural folks and a few recreation sites along the river.  It's not really useful as a through route, as it takes that big meandering loop.  It was also signed, fairly well initially, but now every time I come through the area I see more of even those shields have been removed.  The first one of these might still be up, but I know the last 2 are now gone:

« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 01:04:15 AM by xonhulu »
Logged

agentsteel53

  • invisible hand
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15374
  • long live button copy!

  • Age: 37
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • Last Login: November 21, 2016, 09:58:39 AM
    • AARoads Shield Gallery
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2012, 11:51:23 AM »

how about Oregon 380?  the Prineville-Burns all-paved route is so poorly signed that it's almost a sick joke to have the first several miles of it be signed 380.
Logged
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

xonhulu

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1326
  • Location: Salem, OR
  • Last Login: September 25, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2012, 03:45:01 PM »

how about Oregon 380?  the Prineville-Burns all-paved route is so poorly signed that it's almost a sick joke to have the first several miles of it be signed 380.

That's a good point.  I guess Paulina and Post qualify as "towns," but they're both so small that they could live without state highway access.

At least OR 380 has some length (55 miles) and connects two communities.  I picked 501 and 260 because they lack both those qualities.  But there are some others that you could make the same argument about, especially among the still-unsigned post-2002 routes.
Logged

national highway 1

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1670
  • From Down Under

  • Age: 21
  • Location: Carlingford, NSW, Australia
  • Last Login: November 12, 2018, 07:52:45 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2012, 09:45:47 PM »

We don't seem to be desperately short of 5xx route numbers, are we?
I don't think so, we have 46 5xx routes currently in use  (47 if you include WA 599), however 514, 537 and 540 can be reincarnated, so that means there can be a maximum of 53 extra 5xx routes if the need arises.
Logged
"Set up road signs; put up guideposts. Take note of the highway, the road that you take." Jeremiah 31:21

sp_redelectric

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 439
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Tigard, OR
  • Last Login: October 01, 2018, 12:11:09 AM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2012, 12:39:35 AM »

I wonder if we need a "Questionable State Highways in Oregon" thread since there are a lot of examples:

Oregon 213/Cascade Highway North (more commonly known as 82nd Avenue) - entirely within an urbanized area, parallel to I-205.  Ends short of Portland International Airport at a "End State Highway Maintenance" sign.

U.S. 30 Bypass - almost entirely within the City of Portland, doesn't really bypass anything, much of it is routed on two-lane collector streets like North Lombard and N.E. Sandy Boulevard

Oregon 10/Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway - basically a city of Beaverton street; within Portland it is a city street.  Oregon 10 west of Beaverton is mostly county maintenance save for a few islands of ODOT maintenance that for some reason were never turned over to the county.

Oregon 141 (Beaverton-Tualatin Highway).  This is the old Oregon 217, on Hall Boulevard.  Basically a series of city streets.  The portion north of Oregon 217 in Beaverton, and portion of it in Tualatin (on Boones Ferry Road) have been turned over to the city; along with the short jog on Durham Road is Tigard jurisdiction.

Oregon 43 (Oswego Highway, the original routing of U.S. 99) - however, Portland and Lake Oswego had wanted to take over this highway.  West Linn balked, because it says its portion of the road needed about three times the investment that ODOT offered to give to the city as compensation.  It was even suggested that ODOT would only keep the portion of the road in West Linn, and turn over everything to the north, but ODOT still wouldn't bring the road up to current standards.

U.S. 26/Mount Hood Highway, along Powell Boulevard between Portland and Gresham.  Part of the road in Gresham is already in city jurisdiction now.  I believe ODOT's long term plans is to abandon this road to the cities, when a new road is built from downtown Gresham to I-84...but...that isn't happening any time in the far future.  An alternative would be to re-route U.S. 26 onto Oregon 212 and Oregon 224, then Oregon 99E into downtown Portland (or, why not 212 to I-205 to I-5 to Oregon 217)

Getting more rural:  Oregon 240, from Newberg to Yamhill; the Lafayette-Hopewell (Oregon 154) and Bellevue-Hopewell Highways (Oregon 153), the Amity-Dayton Highway (Oregon 233) - none of these serve any significant travel paths and at most carry a couple thousand vehicles a day.  Of course, Yamhill County's road department isn't exactly up to the standards of Clackamas, Washington or Marion Counties...or even Polk County's road department.  So maybe it's better that they remain ODOT lest they end up back as mud trails.

Oregon 131 (Netarts Highway) west from Tillamook - goes to a couple of small beach towns and that's it.  One could argue that "it is used as an access to a state park", but Cape Lookout is located on a county road several miles off of 131.  And Pacific City has a state park (and a state highway), plus Forest Service property, and isn't on a state highway.

Oregon 130 (Little Nestucca Highway) - Not sure why this road exists when Oregon 22 (Three Rivers Highway) is just to the north of it.

Oregon 53 (Necanicum Highway) - a seldom used, winding road through the middle of nowhere.

Oregon 164 (Jefferson Highway, the former U.S. 99E route) - serves one little town.  But nearby Turner and Aumsville aren't on state highways (Aumsville is near 22, but roads leading into the town itself are city/county roads.  As is Scotts Mills.)

Oregon 226 (Albany-Lyons Highway) - another low-usage road connecting the tiny community of Scio with the equally impressive city of Lyons.
Logged

xonhulu

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1326
  • Location: Salem, OR
  • Last Login: September 25, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2012, 01:42:05 AM »

sp_redelectric, I agree with you completely on OR 213 North, OR 10, OR 141, OR 154, OR 153, OR 233, OR 240, and OR 53.

I'm a little less convinced on BYP US 30, although I agree it's pretty questionable as a bypass. 

While little of OR 10 is still state-maintained, the route still denotes the prominence of Farmington Rd. (You could probably make an equally-strong case for eliminating OR 210, btw.)

The US 26 situation could use some improvement or change.

The Tillamook County routes, OR 130 and OR 131, are useful enough to stick around, imo. 131 might not take you all the way to Cape Lookout or Sand Lake, but it gets you headed to them.  And 130 is used by a lot of the central valley residents to get to Pacific City; I drive it far more often than I do OR 22 north of their junction.

And Jefferson, Scio and Lyons are decent-sized towns, and probably deserve to be on the state highway network.  Also, I've seen OR 226 used as a connecting detour to get US 20 traffic to OR 22 when 20 is closed by slides east of Sweet Home.

There are some other questionable unsigned routes: 180, 194, 222, 225, 241, 250, 251, 332, 334, 335, 339, 429, 451, 452, 453, and 454.  I'll be somewhat surprised if any of these see shields posted.
Logged

sp_redelectric

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 439
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Tigard, OR
  • Last Login: October 01, 2018, 12:11:09 AM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2012, 10:56:44 PM »

While little of OR 10 is still state-maintained, the route still denotes the prominence of Farmington Rd. (You could probably make an equally-strong case for eliminating OR 210, btw.)

Oregon 210 brings up a whole other can of worms - state highway designations on non-state highways.  Oregon 8 (Gales Creek Road, west of Forest Grove) is probably one of the earliest examples, but 210 and most of 10 fall under that.  99E in North Portland also is in this category.

Washington County has enough major routes that it could institute a county highway system...but then again everyone just uses the road name anyways - "T.V. Highway" not "Highway 8".
Logged

707

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 431
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Tucson, Arizona
  • Last Login: November 12, 2018, 12:36:41 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 10:48:48 PM »

It would make a lot more sense if King County replaced the un-needed state routes in Seattle with County Routes, but so far, the only County related "routes" in Seattle are just metro busses.
Logged

JasonOfORoads

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 226
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Last Login: November 03, 2018, 05:45:39 PM
    • ORoads: The Roads of Oregon
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2012, 04:40:01 AM »

Interestingly, Oregon apparently considers its approach to the Lewis & Clark Bridge to be equivalent to an off-ramp from US 30, so it doesn't carry an internal highway # even though it's under state jurisdiction.

I was gonna point out that it did have an internal highway number (as Connector #092AU), but your description of what this means makes a lot of sense.

I also managed to find the road that goes to the Westport Ferry, but it's not even an offramp, it's at MP 70.68 "LEG TO WESTPORT FERRY RD."  Due to how poor quality people say the road is, I guess Clatsop County forgot they maintain roads out there too.
Logged
Borderline addicted to roadgeeking since ~1989.

KEK Inc.

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1795
  • Nintendo Roadgeek

  • Age: 26
  • Location: Seattle, WA
  • Last Login: Today at 04:37:05 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 05:48:19 PM »

Living near SR-513, it's a joke of a highway.  There's nothing on SR-520 that says it's SR-513.   There's only 1 sign for it near U Village.  I've only seen WSDOT maintain the Montlake Cut.  SDOT tends to do the rest.  There's currently construction up at the Children's Hospital by 45th Ave NE. 

Honestly, it should be a county highway, but Washington doesn't do those...
Logged
Take the road less traveled.

kkt

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4507
  • Location: Seattle, Washington
  • Last Login: Today at 01:12:11 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 07:54:09 PM »

Living near SR-513, it's a joke of a highway.  There's nothing on SR-520 that says it's SR-513.   There's only 1 sign for it near U Village.  I've only seen WSDOT maintain the Montlake Cut.  SDOT tends to do the rest.  There's currently construction up at the Children's Hospital by 45th Ave NE. 

Honestly, it should be a county highway, but Washington doesn't do those...

Hey, I take exception to that.  513 is way busier than most rural state highways.  As a state highway, the City doesn't have to pay when the drawbridge needs to be fixed and to replace those underheight pedestrian overpasses at UW.  It serves a couple of major hospitals and is a good truck route.  It should be signed more, and restored to where it met 522 in Lake City.
Logged

KEK Inc.

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1795
  • Nintendo Roadgeek

  • Age: 26
  • Location: Seattle, WA
  • Last Login: Today at 04:37:05 PM
Re: Questionable State Highways In Washington
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2012, 05:19:40 AM »

Living near SR-513, it's a joke of a highway.  There's nothing on SR-520 that says it's SR-513.   There's only 1 sign for it near U Village.  I've only seen WSDOT maintain the Montlake Cut.  SDOT tends to do the rest.  There's currently construction up at the Children's Hospital by 45th Ave NE. 

Honestly, it should be a county highway, but Washington doesn't do those...

Hey, I take exception to that.  513 is way busier than most rural state highways.  As a state highway, the City doesn't have to pay when the drawbridge needs to be fixed and to replace those underheight pedestrian overpasses at UW.  It serves a couple of major hospitals and is a good truck route.  It should be signed more, and restored to where it met 522 in Lake City.

Well, like a state highway, it doesn't have a sidewalk on a long stretch of it.  I have to run through parking lots to get back home from the IMA.

All of the road hardware is contracted through the same companies that the city contracts.  The brand new street lights at Seattle's Children that were installed a few days ago are exactly the same as a conventional Seattle street luminary and gantry.
Logged
Take the road less traveled.

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.