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U.S. 301 Governor Harry W. Nice Memorial Bridge

Started by cpzilliacus, December 20, 2012, 10:08:22 PM

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davewiecking

Quote from: jmacswimmer on October 12, 2022, 08:28:51 AM
And the MDTA finally confirmed the ribbon cutting today & opening tomorrow with a tweet:

https://twitter.com/TheMDTA/status/1580151308278853632

CHART cam shows them setting up for the event.


1995hoo

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

TheOneKEA

This is the second time that the MDTA declined to offer a continuous pedestrian route along one of their facilities (the first being MD 200, for a variety of reasons). I hope this doesn't become a trend.

Alps


Alps

Quote from: TheOneKEA on October 12, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
This is the second time that the MDTA declined to offer a continuous pedestrian route along one of their facilities (the first being MD 200, for a variety of reasons). I hope this doesn't become a trend.
I hope this bridge gets reduced to 1 traffic lane each way because of how ridiculously substandard the design is and the rest is a shoulder that facilitates other modes.

abqtraveler

Quote from: Alps on October 12, 2022, 07:32:00 PM
Quote from: TheOneKEA on October 12, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
This is the second time that the MDTA declined to offer a continuous pedestrian route along one of their facilities (the first being MD 200, for a variety of reasons). I hope this doesn't become a trend.
I hope this bridge gets reduced to 1 traffic lane each way because of how ridiculously substandard the design is and the rest is a shoulder that facilitates other modes.
I'm quite surprised that for a modern bridge, they didn't include full shoulders in the design. I'd hate to have my vehicle break down on the bridge.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Bruce

Quote from: Alps on October 12, 2022, 07:32:00 PM
Quote from: TheOneKEA on October 12, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
This is the second time that the MDTA declined to offer a continuous pedestrian route along one of their facilities (the first being MD 200, for a variety of reasons). I hope this doesn't become a trend.
I hope this bridge gets reduced to 1 traffic lane each way because of how ridiculously substandard the design is and the rest is a shoulder that facilitates other modes.

I've only just learned of this project and am shocked that this is not a temporary configuration for a twinned bridge. What a tight squeeze.

dlsterner

My understanding is that early plans did include full shoulders, but they ended up being nixed in a cost cutting move.  Unfortunate; I think the full shoulders should have remained.

About the only thing that can be done is 20-30 years from now build an identical bridge where the old one was, and re-stripe them both with three lanes and legitimate shoulders.

FWIW I will be heading that way this weekend and will definitely check it out.  Rothman should be happy that I am re-establishing my clinch by driving the new bridge.   :poke:

seicer

Holy crap. I guess it didn't look that narrow from other aerial photos I've seen, but after watching traffic drive over it - that really IS a compromise in safety. It's got 12' lanes to replace the 11' lanes of before, but only 2' shoulders.

Can't be any worse than the US 40 bridge over the Susquehanna River. Whenever there is a cyclist over the bridge, there are lights that activate and flash (or do they stay on?) to warn motorists. I'm unsure how it works because I saw a few cyclists cross and the lights were not flashing.

But to go off Steve's comment - the engineering decision included wide shoulders. It was value engineered down at the request of the MBTA to 2' widths.

bluecountry

Well this is shitty project, no shoulders, and no bike accommodations.  Just awful.

Rothman

Quote from: Alps on October 12, 2022, 07:31:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 11, 2022, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 11, 2022, 07:56:38 PM
Put it this way - decision made is NOT what engineers would design.
But they did.
No they didn't.
Sure, engineers designed it.  Can't have people who are unlicensed stamping plans and the like.

Have to say I agree with the criticism of the narrow shoulders, when it comes down to it, though.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Rothman

Quote from: dlsterner on October 12, 2022, 08:39:19 PM
My understanding is that early plans did include full shoulders, but they ended up being nixed in a cost cutting move.  Unfortunate; I think the full shoulders should have remained.

About the only thing that can be done is 20-30 years from now build an identical bridge where the old one was, and re-stripe them both with three lanes and legitimate shoulders.

FWIW I will be heading that way this weekend and will definitely check it out.  Rothman should be happy that I am re-establishing my clinch by driving the new bridge.   :poke:
I am happy.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

abqtraveler

So now comes the demolition of the old bridge. Does anyone know if it will be imploded, or taken down piece by piece?
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

odditude

Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2022, 09:56:32 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 12, 2022, 07:31:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 11, 2022, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 11, 2022, 07:56:38 PM
Put it this way - decision made is NOT what engineers would design.
But they did.
No they didn't.
Sure, engineers designed it.  Can't have people who are unlicensed stamping plans and the like.

Have to say I agree with the criticism of the narrow shoulders, when it comes down to it, though.
decision made is NOT what engineers would choose to design.

Rothman

Quote from: odditude on October 13, 2022, 01:06:17 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2022, 09:56:32 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 12, 2022, 07:31:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 11, 2022, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 11, 2022, 07:56:38 PM
Put it this way - decision made is NOT what engineers would design.
But they did.
No they didn't.
Sure, engineers designed it.  Can't have people who are unlicensed stamping plans and the like.

Have to say I agree with the criticism of the narrow shoulders, when it comes down to it, though.
decision made is NOT what engineers would choose to design.
Heh.  In my experience, that's the case for the vast majority of projects out there due to funding constraints.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

odditude

Quote from: Rothman on October 13, 2022, 06:55:16 AM
Quote from: odditude on October 13, 2022, 01:06:17 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2022, 09:56:32 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 12, 2022, 07:31:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 11, 2022, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: Alps on October 11, 2022, 07:56:38 PM
Put it this way - decision made is NOT what engineers would design.
But they did.
No they didn't.
Sure, engineers designed it.  Can't have people who are unlicensed stamping plans and the like.

Have to say I agree with the criticism of the narrow shoulders, when it comes down to it, though.
decision made is NOT what engineers would choose to design.
Heh.  In my experience, that's the case for the vast majority of projects out there due to funding constraints.
and hardly just transportation-related... "value engineering" is a joy in all disciplines!

D-Dey65

No consideration for a bike lane underneath the bridge? 

dlsterner

I was able to drive across the new Nice/Middleton bridge (both ways) this past weekend (I've driven over the old span likely 100+ times).

Some observations:

Much has been made in this thread of the lack of shoulders.  While I do believe that standard shoulders should have been added, the bridge did seem comfortably wider.  After all, with the lanes being a foot wider and the addition of two foot shoulders, the lanes were basically three feet wider than before.  There was no longer any feeling constrained by the lane width (like being in a cattle chute). Felt no worse (and probably better) than the eastbound WPL Bay Bridge by comparison.

The ascent and descent of the "hump" were definitely more gradual than before.  There was no longer the feeling of climbing up a steep hill.

Approaches were smooth, although with the inevitable jog on US 301 to get to the new alignment.  I suppose once the old bridge is removed and other traces of construction, it won't seem as drastic.

Traffic flowed very well.  It's posted at 50 mph, but if one wanted to, 60 mph is easily doable.

I would have liked it better with standard shoulders, but I like it.

ixnay


roadman65

Quote from: ixnay on October 17, 2022, 07:46:58 AM
Here's a virtual northbound drive over the new NiceMac...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg7UBaRSr2g

The driver of the Herrs Truck seems to have an ego.  As soon as you passed him, it seems he or she didn't like it and was trying then to pass you.

No surprise, though, that the SB toll is cash less.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

froggie

Quote from: roadman65 on October 17, 2022, 10:54:34 AM
No surprise, though, that the SB toll is cash less.

Should it have?  MdTA announced a long time ago that they were converting all their facilities to AET.

roadman65

No surprise.  Not "Oh wow, I am surprised!"  Meaning typical here.   As our latest fad is to make all toll roads cashless.  Why should Maryland be any different.

Though I am surprised that VA residents still have to pay full price despite the southern end of the bridge connects to Virginia.  You think MDTA would extend the courtesy and let VA residents share in the MD EZPass discount.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

1995hoo

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

MASTERNC

Quote from: roadman65 on October 18, 2022, 02:00:55 PM
No surprise.  Not "Oh wow, I am surprised!"  Meaning typical here.   As our latest fad is to make all toll roads cashless.  Why should Maryland be any different.

Though I am surprised that VA residents still have to pay full price despite the southern end of the bridge connects to Virginia.  You think MDTA would extend the courtesy and let VA residents share in the MD EZPass discount.

Transponder discrimination is a very sore spot and should not be allowed, but that is a different discussion.

roadman65

Quote from: MASTERNC on October 18, 2022, 03:32:36 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 18, 2022, 02:00:55 PM
No surprise.  Not "Oh wow, I am surprised!"  Meaning typical here.   As our latest fad is to make all toll roads cashless.  Why should Maryland be any different.

Though I am surprised that VA residents still have to pay full price despite the southern end of the bridge connects to Virginia.  You think MDTA would extend the courtesy and let VA residents share in the MD EZPass discount.

Transponder discrimination is a very sore spot and should not be allowed, but that is a different discussion.

Transponder discrimination?  You mean VA resident discrimination on MDTA's part.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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