State Capitals Without Interstate Highways

[empirestate]

So now that I-580 in Nevada is officially signed along US 395 in Carson City, how likely is it for the remaining capitals currently without interstates to gain a 2di or 3di in the future? I don't see it happening in Alaska (Juneau). Maybe Delaware (Dover) and Missouri (Jefferson City) someday. Very unlikely in South Dakota (Pierre).

Trenton, NJ is interstate-less as well.  The closest it could come is if US 1 is given an I-route number, or if NJ 29 was reconstructed to eliminated the traffic lights.

WTF?  I thought Trenton was serviced by I-95, I-195, and I-295.

If you're talking about I-routes that actually enter a capital's bounderies, none of those 3 enter Trenton.  All 3 come within about a mile or two of the outlying border, but don't actually enter.

If you want to talk about routes that service a capital, then I-95 services Dover, I-70 services Jefferson City, and I-90 services Pierre.  Doesn't matter the distance, imo.

That's the whole issue. What does it mean to be "on" or "served by" an Interstate? Until we agree on that terminology, all these threads will mostly involve setting the parameters before they ever get around to actually answering the question.

Not that there's anything wrong with having that discussion; that's why we're here. It might be useful, however, to have a thread dedicated to the subject, just to keep the pipes clean, as it were.

[Mr_Northside]

By the "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it standard", I'd say that Trenton IS served by I-95 (currently), I-195, & I-295.   Dover IS NOT served by I-95. 
Though using that "standard" mostly means that that's just my opinion.  Which I'm not even sure I could agree with myself on a more strict definition of "on" or "served by".

[NE2]

If there were an MSA-style definition that wasn't constrained to county lines, it would be the best way to define this.

[jcarte29]

By the "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it standard", I'd say that Trenton IS served by I-95 (currently), I-195, & I-295.   Dover IS NOT served by I-95. 
Though using that "standard" mostly means that that's just my opinion.  Which I'm not even sure I could agree with myself on a more strict definition of "on" or "served by".

I agree with both statements here, I am not from the North East but just lookin at that map of Trenton, NJ I-295 looks as close to that town as I-540 is to Durham or Raleigh in NC (only way I can compare hah).

[kphoger]

If you want to talk about routes that service a capital, then I-95 services Dover, I-70 services Jefferson City, and I-90 services Pierre.  Doesn't matter the distance, imo.

You're not wrong, per se, but there's a huge difference between one mile for Trenton and 30-40 miles for the other three.

On the other hand, there are no towns between I-90 and Pierre, SD–which, to me, makes it a rural equivalent to the Dover example.  Jeff City, OTOH, has Fulton in between along 54 (or US-54 Expy, as Google Maps apparently calls it) or Ashland in between along 63.

[cpzilliacus]

DE 1 I believe would have been considered for interstate status if it hadn't been built as a toll road.

Doesn't mean an I-number can't be slapped on it.

Having driven Del. 1 recently, it certainly appears to be built to Interstate standards (I am speaking of the section with full access control, from Dover Air Force Base north to I-95). 

South of DAFB it lacks access controls in many places, even though there are some grade-separated interchanges.

[PHLBOS]

How 'bout we define it as a city that's never a main control city for an Interstate? Pretty sure 195 WB is signed for Trenton.

So is I-295 in NJ & I-95 north of Philadelphia.

I-70 barely enters Baltimore proper if it does at all, but Baltimore is the main control city for it towards its eastern end.

2 things:

1.  Although I-70 barely enters Baltimore as you stated, it was originally planned to extend further east in to the city.

2.  Since the thread's dealing only w/State Capitals; Maryland's is Annapolis.  I believe that the southern terminus of I-97 is just west of the city, it doesn't actually enter into it.  I have a more detailed map (showing city borders) at home; I can check & verify.

While there are long-term plans to designate a stretch of US 50 east of I-95 as I-595; if that designation only goes as far as I-97 or the Severn River Bridge, it may still not touch the actual city limits of Annapolis.  Now if Future I-595 is proposed to veer off US 50/301 and run along MD 665, then it will be either in Annapolis or more inside it.   

Nonetheless, I-97 southbound has Annapolis as its control city; so it would not quailify as an Interstate-less capital.  Prior to the I-97 designation (circa late 80s/early 90s (?)), Annaplois would've been.

[Kacie Jane]

While there are long-term plans to designate a stretch of US 50 east of I-95 as I-595; if that designation only goes as far as I-97 or the Severn River Bridge, it may still not touch the actual city limits of Annapolis.  Now if Future I-595 is proposed to veer off US 50/301 and run along MD 665, then it will be either in Annapolis or more inside it.

Uhhh, no.  I-595 is not a future designation, it's merely unsigned.  US 50 has officially been I-595 from I-95 to the last interchange (MD 70) before the bridge since about 1991.

However, according to Google maps (not sure on it's accuracy) that does keep it outside city limits, except for a brief portion where the city line is the highway.

[hbelkins]

It's been stated that I-64 does not enter the city limits of Frankfort, but if this map is accurate, the city limits do encompass the westbound lanes.

http://goo.gl/maps/LzTHh

I would be very surprised if the City of Frankfort has not annexed areas to the south of the interstate. There are a number of professional offices south of Exit 53, and the same south of Exit 58, plus one new restaurant (Cracker Barrel) and another one (Logan's Roadhouse) under construction. Frankfort is notorious for annexing areas with lots of employees in order to collect the payroll tax from those working there.

[empirestate]

By the "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it standard", I'd say that Trenton IS served by I-95 (currently), I-195, & I-295.   Dover IS NOT served by I-95. 
Though using that "standard" mostly means that that's just my opinion.  Which I'm not even sure I could agree with myself on a more strict definition of "on" or "served by".

That's precisely how I'd describe my own equivocation on the topic. For example, without consciously applying any specific rules, I'd aver the following:

Boston is on I-95.
Trenton is on I-95.
Harrisburg is on I-76.
Little Rock is on I-40.
Chicago is on I-88.
Salt Lake City is on I-84.

But...

Dover is not on I-95.
Chicago is not on I-80.
New York is not on I-80.
Los Angeles is not on I-15.

...except in the last case, sometimes I decide that LA is on I-15 after all; I'm really not settled on that one.

And before the flames start rising, I freely admit that I-84 in SLC is completely based on my mis-remembering the map; a quick look just now shows that it clearly belongs in the second category.

So is there any real method to my madness?

[NE2]

Eh. I'd put I-80 as serving NYC and Chicago, the latter just as I-76 serves Harrisburg.

[kphoger]

Perhaps a working criterion might be that a city has (a) no Interstate that enters its boundaries, and has (b) no connecting all-freeway connection from any nearby Interstate.  This would...

1. barely put Annapolis with the in crowd, via the John Hanson Hwy and MD-665 (if you can accept a small RIRO side road just as the latter enters the city limits);

2. leave Pierre as an orphan;

3. leave Jefferson City as an orphan;

4. put Trenton with the in crowd, via US-1 or NJ-29;

5. put Dover with the in crowd, albeit with a very long connection via DE-1;

6. probably still leave Frankfort high and dry;

7. definitely still leave Juneau high and dry.

[NE2]

Anything that relies on boundaries treats cities differently based on their annexation policies. Why should a city that can and has annexed 10 miles out to the interchange so it can get taxes from (and provide services to) the businesses there count more than one whose limits are less than half a mile from the Interstate at several interchanges? Only a pedant would claim that Frankfort is not served by I-64, or that Jacksonville is served by US 301 (without adding a qualifier that it's 20 miles west of downtown, separated by a bunch of rural land).

[empirestate]

Eh. I'd put I-80 as serving NYC and Chicago, the latter just as I-76 serves Harrisburg.

Most people would; I'm not sure why my thinking leads me otherwise. I think because I-80 doesn't leave NJ, that's my excuse for not allowing it for NYC. I-80 in Chicago is trickier, as it certainly comes about as close as I-88 (or I-76 to Harrisburg). Probably because I-80 decidedly bypasses Chicago proper, while other E-W 2dis pass through it (and I-88 makes a beeline from the west). But in Harrisburg, I-76 is the east-west route serving the city.

A similar argument could go for I-15 and LA...although it serves the greater metro area, it does obviously miss the city while I-5 passes through, so that way you could say it doesn't serve LA.

Of course, by that logic I should say I-95 doesn't serve Boston, because I-93 goes through. But then, I-95 provides approaches from all sides of Boston as it acts more as a circumferential route than a bypass.

[jeffandnicole]

DE 1 I believe would have been considered for interstate status if it hadn't been built as a toll road.

Doesn't mean an I-number can't be slapped on it.

Having driven Del. 1 recently, it certainly appears to be built to Interstate standards (I am speaking of the section with full access control, from Dover Air Force Base north to I-95). 

Absolutely correct.  Otherwise Delaware wouldn't have allowed it to be signed 65 mph.

[jeffandnicole]

Anyway, saying the Interstate system doesn't serve Trenton is about as dumb as saying commercial airlines don't serve Washington, DC.

Then all interstates serve all towns everywhere. 

[kphoger]

Anyway, saying the Interstate system doesn't serve Trenton is about as dumb as saying commercial airlines don't serve Washington, DC.

Then all interstates serve all towns everywhere. 

How do you work Juneau into that argument?
There is, after all, a Washington National Airport (DCA), but still no Interstates anywhere near Juneau.

[DTComposer]

If there were an MSA-style definition that wasn't constrained to county lines, it would be the best way to define this.

Why not use the census-defined Urban Areas/Urban Clusters?
http://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/dc10map/UAUC_RefMap/ua/

[PHLBOS]

Anyway, saying the Interstate system doesn't serve Trenton is about as dumb as saying commercial airlines don't serve Washington, DC.

There is, after all, a Washington National Airport (DCA).

DCA is actually located in VA not in DC proper.  I believe that was the point NE2 was trying to convey.

It's also worth noting that Cincinnati Airport is actually located in neighboring Covington, KY; hence the CVG airport code.

Of course, by that logic I should say I-95 doesn't serve Boston, because I-93 goes through. But then, I-95 provides approaches from all sides of Boston as it acts more as a circumferential route than a bypass.

In that particular case, as most of us know, I-95 was originally planned to run through Boston; but 2 key projects inside MA 128 were ultimately halted & cancelled.  A similar situation happened regarding the northern segment of I-95 north of DC to the Beltway/I-495 that was never built.

Nonetheless, the City of Boston does have both I-90 & 93 in its borders & Washington, DC has I-66 (small piece), 295 & 395 inside it.

[NE2]

If there were an MSA-style definition that wasn't constrained to county lines, it would be the best way to define this.

Why not use the census-defined Urban Areas/Urban Clusters?
http://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/dc10map/UAUC_RefMap/ua/

Interesting, and possibly useful if you combine cities that are combined for MSAs (e.g. Orlando-Kissimmee).

[roadman65]

If an interstate enters a city's metro area, then it services it!

All three NJ Interstates 95, 195, and 295 do enter the borders of Trenton's suburbs, and even thought I-76 goes through no part of a direct suburb it is still well within the Harrisburg Metropolitan area.

[Brandon]

If an interstate enters a city's metro area, then it services it!

All three NJ Interstates 95, 195, and 295 do enter the borders of Trenton's suburbs, and even thought I-76 goes through no part of a direct suburb it is still well within the Harrisburg Metropolitan area.

That's always been my thought as well.  Hence why Dover, DE and Pierre, SD are not served by interstates, but Trenton, NJ and Harrisburg, PA are.

[empirestate]

In that particular case, as most of us know, I-95 was originally planned to run through Boston; but 2 key projects inside MA 128 were ultimately halted & cancelled.  A similar situation happened regarding the northern segment of I-95 north of DC to the Beltway/I-495 that was never built.

Nonetheless, the City of Boston does have both I-90 & 93 in its borders & Washington, DC has I-66 (small piece), 295 & 395 inside it.

Suppose I-95 and I-93 were to swap routings in the Boston area...I might then say that I-93 does not serve Boston, despite the exact same pieces of pavement being involved as are in the current scenario. Because I-95 approaches from the SW and exits to the NE of Boston, it seems to me that it serves the city, even though it detours around it. I-93 wouldn't have quite the same function if it approached from the NW and then detoured to the south side of town, ending there.

[Alps]

If I-95 does not serve Trenton unless I-95 also serves Dover, You Might Be Anal.

[roadman65]

Bigger question is does I-65 serve Chicago?  It terminates in another state, yet in its metro area.   I-80 does not enter New York, but is three miles from it another state.  The same situation exists for both interstates.

I would say that both do, and even I-684 in New York State does serve NYC in my opinion.