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Author Topic: Department of Redundancy Department  (Read 133745 times)

sprjus4

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #600 on: June 30, 2019, 05:53:54 PM »



VA-168 Business (Battlefield Blvd) in Chesapeake, north of the Hickory area, has an advisory speed of 45 mph around this curve, though the speed limit is already 45 mph.

It's redundant now, though it's a left over from when the speed limit was 50 mph, and was never removed. The speed limit was dropped to 45 mph in order to attempt to deter drivers from avoiding tolls on the Chesapeake Expressway (VA-168 Mainline). The speed limit is only 55 mph on the rural freeway (and it was also 55 mph on VA-168 Business south of Hickory, until lowered to 45 mph) and lowering the speed on VA-168 Business hasn't done anything in changing people's decisions. Until they raise the Expressway to 65 mph, which is a reasonable speed given the design of the freeway, and the rural environment, few people are likely to be "deterred" due to speed limits. Hardly anybody follows the 55 mph limit today as it is on the toll road.
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wanderer2575

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #601 on: June 30, 2019, 07:09:55 PM »

I just came across this 2007 photo in my collection.


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sprjus4

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #602 on: June 30, 2019, 07:14:13 PM »

I just came across this 2007 photo in my collection.


What about buses? :spin:
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Verlanka

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #603 on: July 01, 2019, 05:16:33 AM »

What about buses? :spin:
Probably will fall under the "truck" category.
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Rothman

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #604 on: July 01, 2019, 08:05:12 AM »

Nah.  Buses don't have to detour.
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kphoger

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #605 on: July 01, 2019, 02:00:27 PM »

Another possibility is that the main speed limit was at one time higher, but then got reduced and they did not adjust the school speed limit sign.

I believe that it is confusing to have a school speed limit sign without a speed reduction.  They could have a sign that warns of the presence of a school, like the yellow pentagon sign, without mentioning the speed, since it is irrelevant.  [It seems the yellow pentagon sign is there, so the school speed limit should be removed.]

In my area, this is how it's done in areas where the main road is 25 all times (and no corresponding reduction is necessary since school zones are default at 25).

Aren't there additional restrictions when driving in a school zone?  Not to mention higher fines from traffic violations.  These zones are not delineated by yellow pentagons.
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cjk374

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #606 on: July 01, 2019, 06:51:01 PM »



VA-168 Business (Battlefield Blvd) in Chesapeake, north of the Hickory area, has an advisory speed of 45 mph around this curve, though the speed limit is already 45 mph.

It's redundant now, though it's a left over from when the speed limit was 50 mph, and was never removed. The speed limit was dropped to 45 mph in order to attempt to deter drivers from avoiding tolls on the Chesapeake Expressway (VA-168 Mainline). The speed limit is only 55 mph on the rural freeway (and it was also 55 mph on VA-168 Business south of Hickory, until lowered to 45 mph) and lowering the speed on VA-168 Business hasn't done anything in changing people's decisions. Until they raise the Expressway to 65 mph, which is a reasonable speed given the design of the freeway, and the rural environment, few people are likely to be "deterred" due to speed limits. Hardly anybody follows the 55 mph limit today as it is on the toll road.

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.
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sprjus4

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #607 on: July 01, 2019, 10:19:06 PM »

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.
From my experience, usually an advisory speed is not posted unless the curve is requires a slower speed. In this case, the speed limit is 45 mph, and the curve is 45 mph, so the curve advisory signage should not have an advisory speed displayed. Simply an arrow and that's all.

A similar situation exists on a nearby road where a 45 mph advisory speed is posted on a 45 mph speed zone. In the past, the speed limit was 55 mph, and the curve required slowing to 45 mph. Now that the speed limit has been lowered to 45 mph, the sign is redundant.

On another road nearby, the speed limit has always been 45 mph, and there's a 45 mph curve that does not have any advisory speed posted, simply just an arrow. That's because you can take the curve at the speed limit with no issues. If you're exceeding the speed limit, that's your own issue.
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mrsman

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #608 on: July 02, 2019, 09:58:32 PM »

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.
From my experience, usually an advisory speed is not posted unless the curve is requires a slower speed. In this case, the speed limit is 45 mph, and the curve is 45 mph, so the curve advisory signage should not have an advisory speed displayed. Simply an arrow and that's all.

A similar situation exists on a nearby road where a 45 mph advisory speed is posted on a 45 mph speed zone. In the past, the speed limit was 55 mph, and the curve required slowing to 45 mph. Now that the speed limit has been lowered to 45 mph, the sign is redundant.

On another road nearby, the speed limit has always been 45 mph, and there's a 45 mph curve that does not have any advisory speed posted, simply just an arrow. That's because you can take the curve at the speed limit with no issues. If you're exceeding the speed limit, that's your own issue.

I think the highway departments assume (in many cases correctly) that there is probably significant speeding on the straight sections.  The warning of the curves is to let people know to slow down for their own safety.

I don't think of it as redundant at all.
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sprjus4

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #609 on: July 02, 2019, 10:09:15 PM »

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.
From my experience, usually an advisory speed is not posted unless the curve is requires a slower speed. In this case, the speed limit is 45 mph, and the curve is 45 mph, so the curve advisory signage should not have an advisory speed displayed. Simply an arrow and that's all.

A similar situation exists on a nearby road where a 45 mph advisory speed is posted on a 45 mph speed zone. In the past, the speed limit was 55 mph, and the curve required slowing to 45 mph. Now that the speed limit has been lowered to 45 mph, the sign is redundant.

On another road nearby, the speed limit has always been 45 mph, and there's a 45 mph curve that does not have any advisory speed posted, simply just an arrow. That's because you can take the curve at the speed limit with no issues. If you're exceeding the speed limit, that's your own issue.

I think the highway departments assume (in many cases correctly) that there is probably significant speeding on the straight sections.  The warning of the curves is to let people know to slow down for their own safety.

I don't think of it as redundant at all.
Well the thing is, you only see the advisory speed being the speed limit in this area if it was a left over from a higher speed limit.

There’s plenty of other places in the area that otherwise have simply an arrow.

What’s interesting is that 45 mph advisory speed in the 45 mph zone is easily driveable at 50 mph - it’s not even a sharp curve.
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webny99

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #610 on: July 02, 2019, 10:10:55 PM »

I simply see advisory speeds as a reminder of the speed limit in the context of the upcoming curves.
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jemacedo9

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #611 on: July 03, 2019, 07:49:57 AM »

PA had the opposite for a short while...in prep of raising speed limits to 70, there were some places where new curve signs were posted with 65 MPH advisories, while the freeway was still marked at 65 and before the announcement was made.
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kphoger

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #612 on: July 03, 2019, 03:00:12 PM »

PA had the opposite for a short while...in prep of raising speed limits to 70, there were some places where new curve signs were posted with 65 MPH advisories, while the freeway was still marked at 65 and before the announcement was made.

I'd rather do things in that order than the opposite, wherein someone could have a speed-related crash due to missing advisory plaques after the speed limit increase.
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jemacedo9

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Re: Department of Redundancy Department
« Reply #613 on: July 03, 2019, 03:09:46 PM »

PA had the opposite for a short while...in prep of raising speed limits to 70, there were some places where new curve signs were posted with 65 MPH advisories, while the freeway was still marked at 65 and before the announcement was made.

I'd rather do things in that order than the opposite, wherein someone could have a speed-related crash due to missing advisory plaques after the speed limit increase.

Completely agree.  And it was a nice clue that 70 MPH was coming, even before it was announced...
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