Studded tires. Worth the road damage?

[OCGuy81]

I was reading the other day that the end of the month, studded tires need to be off by April 30 (varies in other states). 

I've never used them, but people we know in Oregon and Washington use them a lot, though I think they can do a lot of damage on the roads.  I then found an article in the Oregonian (Portland) that ODOT wants to ban studded tires.

How many states are these permitted in?  Do you find them necessary given newer tire technology, de-icing methods, and cars having increasingly good methods of traction control for winter driving?

[corco]

Yes- there is nothing like a good set of studs. All the traction control and ABS and 4WD in the world don't do anything without good tires. I've driven new cars with all that fancy stuff and regular tires and old cars with studs and the old cars with studs win- until you've driven a car with studded tires you can't know how nice they are in heavy snow conditions. De-icing doesn't mean anything when there's accumulation already on the roads, which is when those tires are nice to have.

I would caveat that only people who live in deep snow or in places where there are frequently high snow drifts or unreliable plowing really need them. They're definitely a huge help where I live in Montana, because the city just can't afford to plow the city streets despite getting a decent amount of snow. Where I grew up in Idaho, we just got a ton of snow (5 or more feet on the ground in winter), so even though there were plows you'd often be driving in deep snow.

Folks in urban areas (>20,000 people) probably don't need them so much.

As far as Oregon...yeah, probably no need for a Portlander to have them. Somebody in LaGrande though? They probably want snow tires and should be able to have them. Some states have county by county restrictions- that might be the way to go- if your car is registered in Baker City, you get to have studs but if your car is registered in Coos Bay you don't.

[cpzilliacus]

How many states are these permitted in?  Do you find them necessary given newer tire technology, de-icing methods, and cars having increasingly good methods of traction control for winter driving?

In my home state of Maryland, studded tires are only allowed in some counties (all of which have some mountainous or foothill geography and border Pennsylvania).

They are not permitted in the large suburban counties bordering Washington, D.C. and Baltimore, nor are they allowed on the Eastern Shore.

Studded tires are the only tires that really work on ice (and black ice, too).

The three problems with studded tires are:

(1) Bad impact on air quality (because vehicles with studded tired tend to generate particulate pollution);
(2) They damage pavement; and
(3) The are pretty noisy (both in the vehicle and outside).

[deathtopumpkins]

Some states have county by county restrictions- that might be the way to go- if your car is registered in Baker City, you get to have studs but if your car is registered in Coos Bay you don't.

But what if you live in a county where studded tires are banned but work in a county where they aren't? Or you have your car registered in a different county than you live in for most of the year? Or you have reason to frequently travel into counties where you would want studded tires?

The problem with doing it by what county your car is registered in is that many people regularly travel between multiple counties on a daily basis, and it would be incredibly hard to enforce, because for one, there would surely be exemptions, like for reasons stated above, and two, the majority of states do not identify the county of registration by, say, the license plate (and people move anyway) or anything else on the car, so if a cop were going to enforce this, they would need to pull over a person and see their registration just to determine if they were allowed to have the tires or not.

It makes much more sense to allow it by which geographic area you are currently in, rather than that you live in, and I think it would be easier to just keep it by state.

[agentsteel53]

definitely worth it in particular areas.  My rental car in Norway had them, and I was able to do stuff like start from a standstill, up an iced-over 16% incline, with a manual transmission and a little 1.1L engine.

[AsphaltPlanet]

A 1.1L engine?  Turbocharged I hope.  What was that like to drive?

[agentsteel53]

A 1.1L engine?  Turbocharged I hope.  What was that like to drive?

I don't believe so.  it was a Hyundai Getz.  very small and light, and gave me 56mpg.  I think I took it over 115 km/h precisely once, as I was on small two-lane roads the entire time.  (I floored it in a tunnel; it got up to 140 km/h easily and that's where I let up.)

[hbelkins]

My first car was a 1979 Olds Cutlass. Studded mudgrips went on it at Thanksgiving and came off it about the second week of March. Even though the car was a rear-wheel drive, I never had any issues driving in the snow, and we had some doozies when I was driving that car (sold it in 1988).

My dad was a believer in studded snow tires, too.

[kphoger]

How many states are these permitted in?

Here are the ones east of I-35 that I posted not two months ago:

I can think of very few places studded tires (or chains, for that matter) are even allowed east of I-35.  Most states out here don't want their roads getting chewed up by studs or chains.

Let's see.... Did I leave out any states that are east of I-35?
Actually, I see very few places studded tires are not allowed.

Alabama:  Rubber studs allowed, metal studs allowed only in bad weather (duh!)
Arkansas:  Studs allowed Nov. 15 to April 15
Connecticut:  Studs allowed Nov. 15 to April 30
Delaware:  Studs allowed Oct. 15 to April 15
District of Columbia:  Studs allowed Oct. 15 to March 15
Florida:  Rubber studs allowed, metal studs prohibited
Georgia:  Studs prohibited, except in snow and ice (duh!)
Illinois:  Studs prohibited, with exceptions for rural residents and mail carriers Nov. 15 to April 1
Indiana:  Studs allowed Oct. 1 to May 1, and the rest of the year if retracted (duh!)
Iowa:  Studs allowed Nov. 1 to April 1
Kansas:  Studs allowed Nov. 1 to April 15
Kentucky:  Studs allowed
Louisiana:  Rubber studs allowed, metal studs prohibited
Maine:  Studs allowed Oct. 2 to April 30, and the rest of the year if retracted (duh!)
Maryland:  Studs allowed only in five counties, Nov. 1 to March 31
Massachusetts:  Studs allowed Nov. 2 to April 30, "unless otherwise authorized by registrar" (?)
Michigan:  Rubber studs allowed, metal studs prohibited
Minnesota:  Studs prohibited, with exceptions for non-residents and mail carriers
Mississippi:  Studs prohibited
Missouri:  Studs allowed Nov. 2 to March 31
New Hampshire:  Studs allowed
New Jersey:  Studs allowed Nov. 15 to April 1
New York:  Studs allowed Oct. 16 to April 30
North Carolina:  Studs allowed
Ohio:  Studs allowed Nov. 1 to April 15, and the rest of the year if retracted (duh!)
Oklahoma:  Studs allowed Nov. 1 to April 1
Pennsylvania:  Studs allowed Nov. 1 to April 15
Rhode Island:  Studs allowed Nov. 15 to April 1
South Carolina:  Studs allowed only if less than 1/16 inch when compressed
Tennessee:  Studs allowed Oct. 1 to April 15
Texas:  Rubber studs allowed, metal studs prohibited
Vermont:  Studs allowed
Virginia:  Studs allowed Oct. 15 to April 15
West Virginia:  Studs allowed Nov. 1 to April 15
Wisconsin:  Studs prohibited, with several exceptions

(Source:  AAA Digest of Motor Laws)

The whole list for the USA and Canada can be found here:
http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/laws/studded-tires/

[1995hoo]

I've never ridden in a vehicle that was using studded tires. What does it do to the ride quality? I remember when I was in the fourth grade* our school bus in Fairfax County used tire chains for a while after a large snowstorm and the chains made the ride quality horrible, even worse than a school bus usually is because it felt like we were smashing along the road. I can't imagine studs being quite that bad.

*Even though it's been around 30 years, I know it was fourth grade because I recall portions of the bus route as we bounced along on those chains, and that was the only year the bus went that way due to school boundary changes.

[thenetwork]

I've never ridden in a vehicle that was using studded tires. What does it do to the ride quality? I remember when I was in the fourth grade* our school bus in Fairfax County used tire chains for a while after a large snowstorm and the chains made the ride quality horrible, even worse than a school bus usually is because it felt like we were smashing along the road. I can't imagine studs being quite that bad.

From a couple of people I have talked with here in Colorado, studded tires don't last as long, they lower your gas mileage 10-20% on average and must studded tires sound like your car is driving over a finely graveled road.  And you do see a noticable "pitting" pattern in the pavement as well on older roads.

Also in Colorado, since they dump so much sand and cinders on some stretches of road, they use vacuum trucks to suck up the PILES of the stuff in the spring, on the side of the roads, to use it again the next season]

[corco]

studded tires don't last as long,

These are the people that don't actually need snow tires and would probably be best off carrying a set of chains in case they happen to run into some terrible conditions. Studs will last as long as regular tires if they're mostly driven in snow

[cpzilliacus]

I've never ridden in a vehicle that was using studded tires. What does it do to the ride quality? I remember when I was in the fourth grade* our school bus in Fairfax County used tire chains for a while after a large snowstorm and the chains made the ride quality horrible, even worse than a school bus usually is because it felt like we were smashing along the road. I can't imagine studs being quite that bad.

Chains are the worst in terms of ride quality.

Regarding studded tires, here's a Virginia analogy (though it's rather far from home for you).

The car sounds like it is driving on the Colonial Parkway, the NPS-maintained parkway that runs between Jamestown, Williamsburg and Yorktown.  It's like driving on "roughly" paved surface (not cobblestoned).  I read someplace that the Colonial Parkway was deliberately paved with lots of rounded stones in the concrete that went on the wearing surface of the road to give it that "feel."

Probably a bad idea if the Parkway was in an area that got a lot of snow, because I suspect that plow blades would gouge out those stones - but heavy snowfalls in the Williamsburg area are rare.

EDIT:  Corrected typo.

[Rick Powell]

I was reading the other day that the end of the month, studded tires need to be off by April 30 (varies in other states). 

I've never used them, but people we know in Oregon and Washington use them a lot, though I think they can do a lot of damage on the roads.  I then found an article in the Oregonian (Portland) that ODOT wants to ban studded tires.

How many states are these permitted in?  Do you find them necessary given newer tire technology, de-icing methods, and cars having increasingly good methods of traction control for winter driving?

Studded tires have been illegal in IL since the mid-70's.  I remember watching a set of studs being taken off a car's tires at a garage in spring 1974, and conversation about how that might be the last year they could be used.

[1995hoo]

I've never ridden in a vehicle that was using studded tires. What does it do to the ride quality? I remember when I was in the fourth grade* our school bus in Fairfax County used tire chains for a while after a large snowstorm and the chains made the ride quality horrible, even worse than a school bus usually is because it felt like we were smashing along the road. I can't imagine studs being quite that bad.

Chains are the worst in terms of ride quality.

Regarding studded tires, here's a Virginia analogy (though it's rather far from home for you).

The car sounds like it driving on the Colonial Parkway, the NPS-maintained parkway that runs between Jamestown, Williamsburg and Yorktown.  It's like driving on "roughly" paved surface (not cobblestoned).  I read someplace that the Colonial Parkway was deliberately paved with lots of rounded stones in the concrete that went on the wearing surface of the road to give it that "feel."

Probably a bad idea if the Parkway was in an area that got a lot of snow, because I suspect that plow blades would gouge out those stones - but heavy snowfalls in the Williamsburg area are rare.

OK, thanks for that. I certainly know the Colonial Parkway quite well–my brother went to William & Mary and when I visited we usually played a golf course at the navy base's Cheatham Annex and the Colonial Parkway was the most direct way to get there. (Really lousy golf course. Two holes actually crossed each other. But it was super-duper cheap and easy to get to....my brother played there so often, the base guards knew he was coming when they heard the air-cooled VW boxer engine in his '74 Beetle coming up the road.)

[sp_redelectric]

In Oregon the problem is too many people in the Willamette Valley (highest elevation in Eugene is less than 500 feet, save for a few hilly areas like west of Salem, and north of Newberg where the elevation gets up to about 1500 feet at the summits) demand studded tires because they "might" drive to Mt. Hood or over the Coast Range.

For folks who live in or east of the Cascades, south of Cottage Grove, or frequently traverse the Cascades or Coast Range studded tires have their place.  I never owned them in Oregon but when I lived in Montana for a few years I had them and it was a world of difference.  I made the mistake of forgetting to put them on one year...after a nice spinout I was at Les Schwab a couple hours later (and a couple more hours of eating popcorn...)

[mgk920]

Wisconsin allowed them from the mid-1960s until, IIRC, 1975.  The rutting on Milwaukee freeways during that time was astonishing.  There are still some older concrete roads and streets scattered about that show that damage.

Since then, they have only been allowed on public safety vehicles and out-of-state vehicles passing through, uses so light in total that they do negligible damage.

When I did a roadtrip into Colorado back in 1994, the freeways in the Denver area were like driving on cobblestones and one that I drove at the time (I-270) was so deeply worn that the concrete was breaking through in places.

Mike