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Author Topic: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications  (Read 48402 times)

CanesFan27

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #75 on: May 17, 2013, 09:35:12 AM »

Let's take away the numbering for a second.

What should be looked at is the Interstate Highway System as a network of roads/corridors that serve various transportation needs/purposes.  Not as a grid of numbers - which too may in the hobby/forum seem to get caught up in.

If a road is built to Interstate standards, and fits into the overall network, why shouldn't it be signed an interstate? 

As our transportation corridors evolve and change - the need for Interstate standard highways in those areas increase.  If the additional transportation corridors and Interstate System of today existed the same way 55 years ago - I am sure many routes would have different numbers, but it isn't.

The solution isn't to renumber I-4 to I-6 so the proposed I-2 can now become I-4 or whatever the altruistic suggestions that have been made upthread are.

So you have an interstate highway proposal:

Questions in order:

1) Does it meet standards?
2) Does it fill a gap or make a logical expansion of the Interstate Highway system (Network)?

If yes to both,

Then numbering:
1) With the numbers (key word here) AVAILABLE  (/key word here)- What numbering options make the most sense?



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froggie

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #76 on: May 17, 2013, 09:47:40 AM »

Quote
Not always.  Some of us are in the third category.

If this were the case, then those who are "thinking decades ahead" would notice that the trend is lower VMT, not higher.  Nationally, VMT peaked even before the 2008 recession, and all indications are that it will remain that way.  Under which case, the current system is more or less adequate (local mileage may vary).
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Molandfreak

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2013, 11:00:34 AM »

Quote
Not always.  Some of us are in the third category.

If this were the case, then those who are "thinking decades ahead" would notice that the trend is lower VMT, not higher.  Nationally, VMT peaked even before the 2008 recession, and all indications are that it will remain that way.  Under which case, the current system is more or less adequate (local mileage may vary).



Let's take away the numbering for a second.

What should be looked at is the Interstate Highway System as a network of roads/corridors that serve various transportation needs/purposes.  Not as a grid of numbers - which too may in the hobby/forum seem to get caught up in.

If a road is built to Interstate standards, and fits into the overall network, why shouldn't it be signed an interstate? 

As our transportation corridors evolve and change - the need for Interstate standard highways in those areas increase.  If the additional transportation corridors and Interstate System of today existed the same way 55 years ago - I am sure many routes would have different numbers, but it isn't.

The solution isn't to renumber I-4 to I-6 so the proposed I-2 can now become I-4 or whatever the altruistic suggestions that have been made upthread are.

So you have an interstate highway proposal:

Questions in order:

1) Does it meet standards?
2) Does it fill a gap or make a logical expansion of the Interstate Highway system (Network)?

If yes to both,

Then numbering:
1) With the numbers (key word here) AVAILABLE  (/key word here)- What numbering options make the most sense?
This. And the only extensions to the current system I would presently work on are I-49 as planned and Austin-Houston. I would consider Columbus-Frindlay and maybe the I-11 corridor in a decade or two. Most of planned I-73, 74, 69, and 66 (Kentucky) are just stupid. Also, forgive me for not wanting an I-98 over 300 freaking miles from the Canadian border (WIS 29)

Decades ahead can be rational if linking major cities. And now this is just getting too fictional.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 11:07:27 AM by Molandfreak »
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Brandon

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2013, 11:16:05 AM »

Quote
Not always.  Some of us are in the third category.

If this were the case, then those who are "thinking decades ahead" would notice that the trend is lower VMT, not higher.  Nationally, VMT peaked even before the 2008 recession, and all indications are that it will remain that way.  Under which case, the current system is more or less adequate (local mileage may vary).

Don't bet that things will be in the future as they are currently.  VMT is depressed right now due to the current depression and the higher fuel prices.  Once the economy gets going again, and fuel prices drop (either by physically dropping or by more fuel-efficient vehicles), expect VMT to rise again.
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2013, 01:26:47 PM »

There are three camps:
Those who want Interstate designations for everything that's remotely a freeway or could be made one
Those who want to keep everything exactly as it is because state route freeways are exciting
Those who would apply rational judgment
More like 5, sorted by the size of their interstate network:
Those who want Interstate designations for everything*
Those who want Interstate designations for everything that's remotely a freeway or could be made one
Those who would apply rational judgement
Those who want to keep everything exactly as it is because state route freeways are exciting
Those who think there are too many interstates and want some to revert to US/State freeways

*This first group should be referred to as "yellow stoners".
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froggie

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #80 on: May 18, 2013, 03:58:58 AM »

Quote
Don't bet that things will be in the future as they are currently.  VMT is depressed right now due to the current depression and the higher fuel prices.  Once the economy gets going again, and fuel prices drop (either by physically dropping or by more fuel-efficient vehicles), expect VMT to rise again.

Don't bet on the increase.  Even factoring out the recession and fuel economy, all indications are that the younger generations are driving noticeably less than in previous years.  Today's young adults just don't drive as much as the young adults of even 10 years ago.
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Brandon

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #81 on: May 18, 2013, 10:06:14 AM »

Quote
Don't bet that things will be in the future as they are currently.  VMT is depressed right now due to the current depression and the higher fuel prices.  Once the economy gets going again, and fuel prices drop (either by physically dropping or by more fuel-efficient vehicles), expect VMT to rise again.

Don't bet on the increase.  Even factoring out the recession and fuel economy, all indications are that the younger generations are driving noticeably less than in previous years.  Today's young adults just don't drive as much as the young adults of even 10 years ago.


They don't own cars currently for a few factors.

1. Cars, even used ones are expensive now.  It's easier to drive mom and dad's vehicles and not report it as "owning" a car.

2. They quite often don't have the jobs necessary to buy vehicles currently.  Can you buy a $10k used car while flipping burgers?

3. The above *are* directly related to the economy.

I'll bet on an increase instead of a decrease based on that and what's occurred in the past, thankyouverymuch.
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Revive 755

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #82 on: May 18, 2013, 11:22:38 AM »

Quote
Not always.  Some of us are in the third category.

If this were the case, then those who are "thinking decades ahead" would notice that the trend is lower VMT, not higher.  Nationally, VMT peaked even before the 2008 recession, and all indications are that it will remain that way.  Under which case, the current system is more or less adequate (local mileage may vary).

And what of truck traffic volumes, either separately or as part of the national VMT measure?  Given a likely increase in internet sales, I don't think truck traffic growth will stall out.
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vdeane

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2013, 04:54:10 PM »

Quote
Don't bet that things will be in the future as they are currently.  VMT is depressed right now due to the current depression and the higher fuel prices.  Once the economy gets going again, and fuel prices drop (either by physically dropping or by more fuel-efficient vehicles), expect VMT to rise again.

Don't bet on the increase.  Even factoring out the recession and fuel economy, all indications are that the younger generations are driving noticeably less than in previous years.  Today's young adults just don't drive as much as the young adults of even 10 years ago.


They don't own cars currently for a few factors.

1. Cars, even used ones are expensive now.  It's easier to drive mom and dad's vehicles and not report it as "owning" a car.

2. They quite often don't have the jobs necessary to buy vehicles currently.  Can you buy a $10k used car while flipping burgers?

3. The above *are* directly related to the economy.

I'll bet on an increase instead of a decrease based on that and what's occurred in the past, thankyouverymuch.
Also, lets ask those people about car ownership a decade or two from now.  Living in the big city and re-creating your college experience is one thing when you're right out of college, and another when you're trying to raise a family.
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #84 on: May 18, 2013, 07:32:22 PM »

Quote
Don't bet that things will be in the future as they are currently.  VMT is depressed right now due to the current depression and the higher fuel prices.  Once the economy gets going again, and fuel prices drop (either by physically dropping or by more fuel-efficient vehicles), expect VMT to rise again.

Don't bet on the increase.  Even factoring out the recession and fuel economy, all indications are that the younger generations are driving noticeably less than in previous years.  Today's young adults just don't drive as much as the young adults of even 10 years ago.


They don't own cars currently for a few factors.

1. Cars, even used ones are expensive now.  It's easier to drive mom and dad's vehicles and not report it as "owning" a car.

2. They quite often don't have the jobs necessary to buy vehicles currently.  Can you buy a $10k used car while flipping burgers?

3. The above *are* directly related to the economy.

I'll bet on an increase instead of a decrease based on that and what's occurred in the past, thankyouverymuch.
Also, lets ask those people about car ownership a decade or two from now.  Living in the big city and re-creating your college experience is one thing when you're right out of college, and another when you're trying to raise a family.

Many people of this generation don't want to raise a family.

I for one would be very happy living out my adult life in an urban apartment with no kids. Practically, I can live with no car too. I already do for most of the year. It would be nice to have one for fun though. It's kinda hard to be a roadgeek without one.

DTComposer

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #85 on: May 18, 2013, 08:07:12 PM »

Also, lets ask those people about car ownership a decade or two from now.  Living in the big city and re-creating your college experience is one thing when you're right out of college, and another when you're trying to raise a family.

Many people of this generation don't want to raise a family.

I for one would be very happy living out my adult life in an urban apartment with no kids. Practically, I can live with no car too. I already do for most of the year. It would be nice to have one for fun though. It's kinda hard to be a roadgeek without one.

With all due respect, I think you're playing right into his point. It's very easy to make broad-brushstroke decisions about your life at age 19. I'm in the generation right above yours, and a great many of my high school and college and young adult friends wanted the urban, no-child lifestyle. Many of them (myself included) lived that lifestyle throughout our 20s and into our 30s. Over time and with experience, however, perspective changes, and most (certainly not all) have moved into some sort of raising-a-family lifestyle (although many of us have stayed in "urban" vs. "suburban" areas).

You personally may very well continue in your situation throughout your life, but if I were to hazard a guess, the vast majority of your generation will create families, like all generations before them.
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #86 on: May 19, 2013, 01:53:06 AM »

There are three camps:

Those who want Interstate designations for everything that's remotely a freeway or could be made one

Those who want to keep everything exactly as it is because state route freeways are exciting

Those who would apply rational judgment

There is a difference between the second and third camps?
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #87 on: May 19, 2013, 01:53:18 PM »

There are three camps:

Those who want Interstate designations for everything that's remotely a freeway or could be made one

Those who want to keep everything exactly as it is because state route freeways are exciting

Those who would apply rational judgment

There is a difference between the second and third camps?
:P I live right off I-578. That and I-395 (NJ 55) are the only conversions I'd make in this state.

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #88 on: May 20, 2013, 03:16:28 PM »

Also, lets ask those people about car ownership a decade or two from now.  Living in the big city and re-creating your college experience is one thing when you're right out of college, and another when you're trying to raise a family.

Many people of this generation don't want to raise a family.

I for one would be very happy living out my adult life in an urban apartment with no kids. Practically, I can live with no car too. I already do for most of the year. It would be nice to have one for fun though. It's kinda hard to be a roadgeek without one.

With all due respect, I think you're playing right into his point.
Her point.  Vdeane is one of AAroads female members.
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2013, 04:01:18 PM »

Also, lets ask those people about car ownership a decade or two from now.  Living in the big city and re-creating your college experience is one thing when you're right out of college, and another when you're trying to raise a family.

Many people of this generation don't want to raise a family.

I for one would be very happy living out my adult life in an urban apartment with no kids. Practically, I can live with no car too. I already do for most of the year. It would be nice to have one for fun though. It's kinda hard to be a roadgeek without one.

With all due respect, I think you're playing right into his point.
Her point.  Vdeane is one of AAroads female members.

There are women on AAroads?  So that's why my fiancee doesn't like me being on the forums!!!
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Brandon

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #90 on: May 20, 2013, 06:52:26 PM »

Also, lets ask those people about car ownership a decade or two from now.  Living in the big city and re-creating your college experience is one thing when you're right out of college, and another when you're trying to raise a family.

Many people of this generation don't want to raise a family.

I for one would be very happy living out my adult life in an urban apartment with no kids. Practically, I can live with no car too. I already do for most of the year. It would be nice to have one for fun though. It's kinda hard to be a roadgeek without one.

With all due respect, I think you're playing right into his point.
Her point.  Vdeane is one of AAroads female members.

There are women on AAroads?  So that's why my fiancee doesn't like me being on the forums!!!

Of all amazing things, female roadgeeks do exist!  They are not some fantasy.
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #91 on: May 20, 2013, 09:07:46 PM »

Also, lets ask those people about car ownership a decade or two from now.  Living in the big city and re-creating your college experience is one thing when you're right out of college, and another when you're trying to raise a family.

Many people of this generation don't want to raise a family.

I for one would be very happy living out my adult life in an urban apartment with no kids. Practically, I can live with no car too. I already do for most of the year. It would be nice to have one for fun though. It's kinda hard to be a roadgeek without one.

With all due respect, I think you're playing right into his point.
Her point.  Vdeane is one of AAroads female members.

There are women on AAroads?  So that's why my fiancee doesn't like me being on the forums!!!

Of all amazing things, female roadgeeks do exist!  They are not some fantasy.
Ever seen a meet photo?

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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #92 on: May 20, 2013, 09:21:26 PM »

Quote
Don't bet that things will be in the future as they are currently.  VMT is depressed right now due to the current depression and the higher fuel prices.  Once the economy gets going again, and fuel prices drop (either by physically dropping or by more fuel-efficient vehicles), expect VMT to rise again.

Don't bet on the increase.  Even factoring out the recession and fuel economy, all indications are that the younger generations are driving noticeably less than in previous years.  Today's young adults just don't drive as much as the young adults of even 10 years ago.


In the long term, population growth will drown out generation-to-generation noise in VMT. Personal aircraft will not replace ground vehicles as long as they waste energy forcing air downwards to stay aloft. If trains become a dominant mode, they'll probably mirror where we have freeways now, and we'll have similar discussions about numbering train routes.
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #93 on: May 21, 2013, 08:32:59 AM »

Quote
Don't bet that things will be in the future as they are currently.  VMT is depressed right now due to the current depression and the higher fuel prices.  Once the economy gets going again, and fuel prices drop (either by physically dropping or by more fuel-efficient vehicles), expect VMT to rise again.

Don't bet on the increase.  Even factoring out the recession and fuel economy, all indications are that the younger generations are driving noticeably less than in previous years.  Today's young adults just don't drive as much as the young adults of even 10 years ago.


In the long term, population growth will drown out generation-to-generation noise in VMT. Personal aircraft will not replace ground vehicles as long as they waste energy forcing air downwards to stay aloft. If trains become a dominant mode, they'll probably mirror where we have freeways now, and we'll have similar discussions about numbering train routes.

and all that expensive gas
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #94 on: May 21, 2013, 10:44:07 AM »

If trains become a dominant mode, they'll probably mirror where we have freeways now, and we'll have similar discussions about numbering train routes.
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/42434-amtrak-train-numbers/ :bigass:
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #95 on: May 21, 2013, 01:12:00 PM »

of course they even number bike routes :P
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #96 on: June 21, 2013, 11:31:54 AM »

Was trying to find out more on that Spokane Valley business loop addition, but http://www.transportation.org/ doesn't work. I looked a week or two ago and the site did not work then as well. Is their site ko'd?

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« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:40:22 PM by Grzrd »
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #98 on: June 21, 2013, 01:35:48 PM »

Well in the "perfect grid" the 50 longest roads each direction would be 2-dis
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Re: AASHTO May 5, 2013 Route Numbering Actions and Applications
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2013, 03:03:06 PM »

^ It just worked for me. Try this link for the Applications:

http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Binder-all%20applications%20May%202013.pdf

and the Actions Report to SCOH:

http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Report%20to%20SCOH%20from%20USRN%20SM2013%20May%203.pdf

Both links timed out, and I get this message from Chrome:
Quote
The connection to route.transportation.org was interrupted.
and
Quote
Error 101 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET): The connection was reset.

 


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