Speed Limits on bike paths

[silverback1065]

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?s=4934228&clienttype=printable

I came across this article and found it interesting, I've never really considered the concept of speed limits for bikers (likely because I rarely ride a bike).  What are everyone's opinion of this?  I'm not familiar with the types of bikes people use on trails, but don't they lack speedometers?  If that's true, how would you know if you're speeding? 

[NE2]

A 'your speed is' installation would solve the problem of lack of speedometers (they do work with bikes; I've tested).

[Mdcastle]

Many of the Minneapolis city trails are 10 mph. I get the idea it's more to have something to charge someone with that's riding reckless, although I do know one person that's gotten a ticket. The spandex and helmet types tend to ride on the parkway rather than the trails, which are more casual bicyclers.

[ET21]

Outside of the racing bicyclists, I didn't think they would need speed limits on the bike paths

[kphoger]

Outside of the racing bicyclists, I didn't think they would need speed limits on the bike paths

So only certain people should be regulated?

[Revive 755]

I think the system of bike trails near Edwardsville, IL has a limit of 20, but it is only mentioned under rules for use or something similar, never on a speed limit sign.

[Brandon]

There's no posted speed limit on the forest preserve trails around here, including the I&M Canal Trail.  Of course, most folks don't go much faster than 15 mph on bicycle on the trails anyway.

[silverback1065]

I see the need in a lot of areas, I deal with a lot of bike traffic (as a pedestrian) in college, bikers there are reckless.  It's a great way to make bikers be less reckless and be more mindful of their surroundings. 

[Brian556]

There's a SPEED LIMIT 20 on the trail along SH 26 in Grapevine, Tx

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=32.926266,-97.10706&spn=0.000018,0.012531&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=32.92639,-97.106816&panoid=KmIan3GZ2o_Cv57KlhHiSA&cbp=12,25.59,,1,0

[froggie]

I see the need in a lot of areas, I deal with a lot of bike traffic (as a pedestrian) in college, bikers there are reckless.  It's a great way to make bikers be less reckless and be more mindful of their surroundings.

Just as with vehicles and drivers, an arbitrary speed limit is not going to change this.

[kphoger]

I also keep coming back to bikes not having speedometers.  Can't get past that, IMO.

Let's say the limit is 15 mph.  You cycle past a "your speed is" installation, and it clocks you at 12 mph.  You still have no idea at what point, as you speed up, you top 15 mph.

Now let's say the installation clocks you at 16 mph.  What are you supposed to do with that information?memorize which gear ratio you have selected and how fast your pedals are rotating, for future reference?

Since cyclists have no good way, without purchasing a bicycle computer, to know their speed, then I say the signs serve no purpose.  In fact, if people assume that they'll never top the posted speed limit, then the signs might even encourage them to keep cycling fast.

[NE2]

Let's say the limit is 15 mph.  You cycle past a "your speed is" installation, and it clocks you at 12 mph.  You still have no idea at what point, as you speed up, you top 15 mph.

If they only enforced it at the locations of those signs (and gave you time to slow down after seeing how fast you're going) it would be reasonable.

Of course the real problem here is not speed but recklessness. Going 25 on an empty straightaway is different from weaving at 25 between nuns walking orphans.

[kphoger]

Going 25 on an empty straightaway is different from weaving at 25 between nuns walking orphans.

Maybe orphans should be prohibited on hike/bike paths.

[1995hoo]

....

Of course the real problem here is not speed but recklessness. Going 25 on an empty straightaway is different from weaving at 25 between nuns walking orphans.

When I've used the W&OD Trail in Northern Virginia (which was the site of an incident last weekend where a presumably drunk driver drove five miles along the trail at high speeds), I've observed that the problems seem to stem from a lack of consideration by all types of users:

–Many pedestrians walk on the left instead of on the right. Some of them claim to do this because of the next point.

–Many cyclists don't provide warning when they approach pedestrians (thus causing some pedestrians to walk on the left because they say they can see approaching cyclists).

No doubt the increased use of earphones simply exacerbates both of the foregoing.

–Often cyclists ride two abreast and don't move over for oncoming pedestrians.

–Mothers with baby strollers like to walk two abreast and often don't move over for anyone.

–Dog-walkers can be unpredictable, as can little kids.

–Cyclists blow through stop signs as though they expect cars to come to a stop (despite not having a stop sign) just because a cyclist is approaching a crossing.

It's always seemed to me that courtesy shouldn't be all that difficult. If you're what a friend of mine calls a "Lance wannabe," maybe you should find a route other than what's promoted as a multi-use trail instead of expecting everyone else to stay out of your way.

But I think froggie is right–an arbitrary speed limit is not a solution to a general lack of regard for other people. It's a general lack of courtesy, or a lack of caring about anyone other than yourself (also a common problem on our roads), that is the real problem. My brother just moved from Fairfax City to Falls Church and he says he's commuted by bike a few times and he finds that the "fuck-you attitude" of the hard-core bike commuters is extremely off-putting. Reminds me of a ski accident Ms1995hoo had a few years back–some punk kid on a snowboard saw her below him but ran into her anyway and then tried to say she should have gotten out of his way (the Skier Responsibility Code at just about every resort puts the onus on the guy further up the hill to avoid people below). He wasn't happy when we flagged down the Ski Patrol and got his lift ticket revoked! His attitude was "I'm on a snowboard and you should hear me coming and get out of the way." BS.

[agentsteel53]

(thus causing some pedestrians to walk on the left because they say they can see approaching cyclists).

this does not make sense to me.  if a bike is coming up behind me on the path, I will not see it any better regardless of where I am walking. 

[kphoger]

No, it's that–assuming cyclists are keeping to the right–they're now in the path of oncoming (visible) cyclists instead of overtaking (invisible) cyclists.

My family and I just went jogging on a multi-use path for the first time yesterday evening.  I was pushing a stroller with our youngest in it.  Our five-year-old sometimes ran and sometimes rode in the stroller too.  My wife was jogging.  I (with much longer legs) generally just walked very fast to keep up with her.  All of us were guilty of walking/jogging two abreast sometimes (it's hard not to want to walk next to your spouse).  And yes, my wife had earphones in, because she was following a workout regimen on her phone which told her when to walk and when to jog and played music in between.

I had to remind my son to keep to the right, and he did fairly well (OK, he actually preferred being in the dirt instead of on the pavement).  But I wasn't about to chew my wife out.  Instead, I just kept looking back to see if any cyclists were approaching.

I think a simple solution is to paint a stripe down the middle, and arrows every so often in the lanes.  Most people will abide by that.  Much harder to remember to keep right when the path looks basically like a plain old sidewalk.

[agentsteel53]

I see the need in a lot of areas, I deal with a lot of bike traffic (as a pedestrian) in college, bikers there are reckless.  It's a great way to make bikers be less reckless and be more mindful of their surroundings.

bicyclists need to be issued citations just like motor vehicles.

blow through a stop sign while salmoning up the sidewalk?  reckless endangerment; have fun with your newly stamped misdemeanor, asshole.

[NE2]

–Many pedestrians walk on the left instead of on the right. Some of them claim to do this because of the next point.

–Many cyclists don't provide warning when they approach pedestrians (thus causing some pedestrians to walk on the left because they say they can see approaching cyclists).

I can see the argument that it's a road for vehicular traffic so you should walk on the left.

–Cyclists blow through stop signs as though they expect cars to come to a stop (despite not having a stop sign) just because a cyclist is approaching a crossing.

http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2013/03/31/i-am-traffic-even-on-the-path/

[kphoger]

bicyclists need to be issued citations just like motor vehicles.

blow through a stop sign while salmoning up the sidewalk?  reckless endangerment; have fun with your newly stamped misdemeanor, asshole.

Pedestrians, too.

Cross the street in the left half of the crosswalk?  Ticket!

[agentsteel53]

Pedestrians, too.

Cross the street in the left half of the crosswalk?  Ticket!

they are much more easily avoided, due to their low speed and generally more predictable behavior.  furthermore, they are unlikely to be endangering other pedestrians.

[kphoger]

Pedestrians, too.

Cross the street in the left half of the crosswalk?  Ticket!

they are much more easily avoided, due to their low speed and generally more predictable behavior.  furthermore, they are unlikely to be endangering other pedestrians.

They endanger law-abiding cyclists by their reckless behavior.  And some of them have very unpredictable dogs on leashes.  It's  anarchy!

[1995hoo]

....  All of us were guilty of walking/jogging two abreast sometimes (it's hard not to want to walk next to your spouse). ...

Agreed, it's usually much more pleasant, and I routinely walk two abreast with my wife–but if I hear a cyclist coming up behind me or if the path is only wide enough for two people and there's someone coming the other way, I move in behind her so the other person need not step off into the dirt. This happens all the time on the path around the lake near our house, for example. Conversely, though, if we encounter people walking two abreast and we've moved into single file and they fail to do so, we usually won't step off into the dirt/mud/goose shit and we'll usually say "excuse me" in a very slightly pointed way.

I have not walked on the W&OD Trail I mentioned earlier in at least 23 years (we walked almost all over it in stages in our teens when we were pursuing the Hiking merit badge as Boy Scouts).

[kphoger]

....  All of us were guilty of walking/jogging two abreast sometimes (it's hard not to want to walk next to your spouse). ...

Agreed, it's usually much more pleasant, and I routinely walk two abreast with my wife–but if I hear a cyclist coming up behind me or if the path is only wide enough for two people and there's someone coming the other way, I move in behind her so the other person need not step off into the dirt. This happens all the time on the path around the lake near our house, for example. Conversely, though, if we encounter people walking two abreast and we've moved into single file and they fail to do so, we usually won't step off into the dirt/mud/goose shit and we'll usually say "excuse me" in a very slightly pointed way.

I have not walked on the W&OD Trail I mentioned earlier in at least 23 years (we walked almost all over it in stages in our teens when we were pursuing the Hiking merit badge as Boy Scouts).

Same here.  We fall into single file for someone else approaching from either direction.  Amusingly, the other person still goes off the pavement for us, even though we've made room.  And I do the same thing as you when others don't fall into single file.  I've been known to even bump shoulders with the other person as we pass.

[agentsteel53]

the worst is when people walk three abreast.  I will not step off the sidewalk for your oh-so-important conversation. 

[silverback1065]

I totally agree (referring to the bikers that have the fuck you attitude) that needs to stop, bikes are considered motor vehicles almost everywhere, and it's about time they start acting like it.