Poor Sign Placement

[bzakharin]

slightly different aspect of poor placement:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7618223,-73.9496483,3a,75y,109.27h,96.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st1cljuVco-WgUDNh4svGVg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
"right lane ends in 1 mile", ok.
if you look carefully, you can see a BGS a little bit down the road, maybe 0.1 mile. Here is a closer look:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7604682,-73.9469055,3a,75y,109.27h,96.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQd4WkZ64IV59-UsEFFfgsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Exit 25 in 1 mile.
Which lane would you be using to get off the highway at that exit?

Here's how the NJ Turnpike handles a similar situation:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9399608,-74.9423118,3a,75y,260.73h,82.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa-gGh8S8rQD8l-37SnFnAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
That sign is just under 1 mile to where the right lane ends and about 0.3 miles after the One mile advance for the exit. It's still confusing, though, because it doesn't really tell you what happens to the right lane. Also, I've seen "Thru Traffic Keep Left" in places where there isn't a lane reduction, but just a 2-lane exit. I don't know how I would solve this other than just exit the right lane instead of ending it.

In Thruway case someone did read that exit-only lanes are bad. So what they did, they have a 3-lane+4th exit lane until the gore point, and third travel lane ends 30 feet after gore point. Exit-only lane would be much less messy and quite a bit cheaper. But that is not what the book says.

Placing "lane end 1 mile" sign before "exit 1 mile" sign complicates things even further. Both are technically correct, though

In the two situations described above (Schenectady along Thruway, Mount Holly along NJTP) the right thru lane ends mere feet after an exit.  The preferred way would be to just simply force the right lane to exit.  There are many ways where that condition can be warned ahead of time.

I thought that *wasn't* the preferred way, as it causes people to quickly exit a lane they didn't know was ending.  I thought the preferred method was a lane drop, downstream from the last exit or in an area without anything else going on.

I think mere feet is the operative phrase here. If the driver does not know a lane exits (despite "exit only" signs) then the driver won't know the lane ends for the same reason.  If the lane drops significantly beyond the exit that's one thing, but if the lane ends just beyond the exit it creates more confusion not less.

[kalvado]

I think mere feet is the operative phrase here. If the driver does not know a lane exits (despite "exit only" signs) then the driver won't know the lane ends for the same reason.  If the lane drops significantly beyond the exit that's one thing, but if the lane ends just beyond the exit it creates more confusion not less.

Just for the record: this is the spot which started the conversation:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7538043,-73.9336249,18z/data=!3m1!1e3
I believe "exit-only" lane is the way to go. There is a lot of eastbound commuting traffic coming from that exit, so shifting through traffic left makes perfect sense - but not the way it is done. Maybe shifting traffic was an afterthought after the number of commuters increased? Even then exit-only lane can be done with just stripping. 

[vdeane]

Yeah, it used to be three continuous lanes, and then the right was ended so that traffic coming from I-890 didn't have to merge.  SB exit 23, though, is done the same way despite the third lane never continuing south of there.  NYSTA just hates exit only lanes (also option lanes).

[epzik8]

U.S. 322 in Pennsylvania again. This is along the U.S. 202 concurrency.

[roadman65]

www.google.com/maps/@40.7382373,-74.3682541,3a,37.5y,106.7h,89.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVShF9jFPVYPR3YzhFER54A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Should not this sign for MAPLEWOOD 6 be placed ahead beyond the merge?  For some reason NJDOT when adding mileage points along state routes placed them anyplace even within interchanges instead of beyond the farthest merge areas like they're supposed to be.

Also why is NJ 124 getting a mileage sign anyway being its a service road to a freeway?

[jbnv]

TREE MONSTER LIKES SIGNS!! OM NOM NOM

U.S. 322 in Pennsylvania again. This is along the U.S. 202 concurrency.

[roadman65]

Come to Orlando along S. John Young Parkway where the trees planted along the side of the highway by our county for beautification has blocked views of many guide signs for the upcoming intersections.  This is normal for JYP commuters to see.

[bzakharin]

Also why is NJ 124 getting a mileage sign anyway being its a service road to a freeway?

Note that the sign is after the last time NJ 24 East had direct access to NJ 124 before the latter ceases to be a frontage road and goes off on its own.

On the other hand, though you could follow NJ 124 to Maplewood from here, the much faster way is to enter NJ 24, then I-78, then exit for NJ 124 from there, so the mileage sign is pretty pointless.

[paulthemapguy]

There's another Tree Monster sign along my usual bikeride loop.  I'll get a picture to put on here  .  I work at a road district and I'm actually in charge of keeping track of the status of all 4000+ signs in our system.  There used to be a few Tree Monster examples but, per my recommendation our personnel already trimmed the trees where I asked them to

[hbelkins]

Signs obscured by trees or other overgrowth really shouldn't go here. Lack of maintenance doesn't equate to poor placement.

[roadman65]

Also why is NJ 124 getting a mileage sign anyway being its a service road to a freeway?

Note that the sign is after the last time NJ 24 East had direct access to NJ 124 before the latter ceases to be a frontage road and goes off on its own.

On the other hand, though you could follow NJ 124 to Maplewood from here, the much faster way is to enter NJ 24, then I-78, then exit for NJ 124 from there, so the mileage sign is pretty pointless.

Not to derail this for long, but you are right, the majority would use Route 24 to I-78 and rejoin Route 124 later on.  I believe this sign was part of a statewide signing project in 1998 that gave all NJ routes (including interstates) that picked various points along the route, and would list them and each time one point would be surpassed a new sign would be listing either a newly added point to replace the one just surpassed or just have one less community mentioned.

Probably leaving Morristown on NJ 124 there is another sign with Chatham and Maplewood on it as well.  Being this is after the route leaves the first city on it, then the next sign comes to just solely Maplewood.

[Brian556]

Highland Village, Texas:

[jakeroot]

Highland Village, Texas:

I don't get it. Is the sign on the wrong side of the crosswalk?

[noelbotevera]

Highland Village, Texas:

I don't get it. Is the sign on the wrong side of the crosswalk?

Maybe you have to put your bike on your head and ride across that way....

[kphoger]

Highland Village, Texas:

I don't get it. Is the sign on the wrong side of the crosswalk?

I'm assuming that's it.  Fatalities are now skyrocketing.

[kphoger]

Joppa, IL

[amroad17]

^ Unfortunately, because of the parking lot, that is the closest the STOP sign could be placed--unless a small island could be built for a STOP sign in the parking lot nearer to the intersection.  As it currently is, this placement cannot be helped.

[hbelkins]

^^ Put the stop sign across the road and install a stop bar at the proper location.

[amroad17]

That will work--if drivers see the STOP sign is located across the road.  It should be a fairly large STOP sign though.

[jakeroot]

Unfortunately, because of the parking lot, that is the closest the STOP sign could be placed--unless a small island could be built for a STOP sign in the parking lot nearer to the intersection.  As it currently is, this placement cannot be helped.

Put the stop sign across the road and install a stop bar at the proper location.

That will work--if drivers see the STOP sign is located across the road.  It should be a fairly large STOP sign though.

If not, a small island could still be constructed between the two lanes of travel, something like this (just between two directions, instead of one):

[kalvado]

If not, a small island could still be constructed between the two lanes of travel, something like this (just between two directions, instead of one):

Not sure what MUTCD says about it, but my impression was that regular signs on the left are often ignored.
Most common example would be "WRONG WAY" red sings at divided highway entrance. You do see ssign on your left - and you are supposed to happily ignore that.
Just a random example of such sign, if you didn't see one this morning..
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6344536,-73.777974,3a,66.8y,142.57h,94.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sONZliFennNPLhOnLKjEsJw!2e0

[spooky]

^^ Put the stop sign across the road and install a stop bar at the proper location.

That will work--if drivers see the STOP sign is located across the road.  It should be a fairly large STOP sign though.

The MUTCD specifically requires that a STOP sign be installed on the near side of the intersection on the right side of the approach.

[hbelkins]

^^ Put the stop sign across the road and install a stop bar at the proper location.

That will work--if drivers see the STOP sign is located across the road.  It should be a fairly large STOP sign though.

The MUTCD specifically requires that a STOP sign be installed on the near side of the intersection on the right side of the approach.

Not always possible. So sometimes you have to improvise.

[spooky]

I see plenty of room for a stop sign in the right location. There is a pole along the edge of the parking lot on the mainline, why couldn't there be a stop sign on the side street?

[jakeroot]

If not, a small island could still be constructed between the two lanes of travel, something like this (just between two directions, instead of one):

Not sure what MUTCD says about it, but my impression was that regular signs on the left are often ignored.
Most common example would be "WRONG WAY" red sings at divided highway entrance. You do see ssign on your left - and you are supposed to happily ignore that.
Just a random example of such sign, if you didn't see one this morning..
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6344536,-73.777974,3a,66.8y,142.57h,94.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sONZliFennNPLhOnLKjEsJw!2e0

Well, a sign that is five car lengths before the intersection probably has a better chance of being ignored. If the center markings fattened near the junction with an island, the stop sign would appear to be roughly in the center of the lane on approach.