Atlanta

[Chris]

I was thinking about Atlanta, and decided to check it out better on Google Earth. The city's urbanized area is just massive. It generally sprawls 30 miles from the city center in all directions, with some areas being as far as 50 miles from downtown (Gainesville, Canton).

I was wondering, since the suburbanization of Atlanta didn't really stop at the perimeter (I-285), isn't there a need for a second, much larger beltway? I measured it on Google Earth, and came out with this. Remember, some areas would still be outside this second beltway, especially in the north.

[DAL764]

There have been plenty of proposals to build another larger beltway for Atlanta over the years, but so far all have been shot down for the usual reasons:
-Everyone complaining about costs
-Treehuggers complaining about trees having to be cut down
-NIMBYs complaining about the noise and pollution threat

I'm not sure how/where traffic flows on I-285, but IMHO building at least some 'short cuts' instead of a whole beltway might be an easier solution for now. Granted, it's been a while since I last drove on I-285, but I remember from most experiences that I-285 in the region around the airport is just a huge clusterfvck that desperately needs some support, say from a partial beltway from I-85 eastwards to I-20 for starters.

[Chris]

-Treehuggers complaining about trees having to be cut down

Doesn't matter much for those trees if they're cut down for suburbs or for freeways... However, classical objections ofcourse. And in meantime, Atlanta really doesn't stop growing. I wonder where it ends, at the current growth pace, it would be a matter of time before whole northern Georgia is one big urban area.

[Bryant5493]

That would be a good idea, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.


Be well,

Bryant

[Alex]

Well be prepared for a barrage of sprawl along the southwest corridor of Interstate 85. GADOT is presently eight-laning a 29-mile section with ultimate plans to have the entire freeway eight-lanes between Interstate 185 and Interstate 285! Presently a good portion of that corridor is rural, but with an eight-lane freeway now in town, that land will become that much more lucrative for future development. Its sad to see that politicians really have no clue as to planning in that area. 

[Bryant5493]

^^ Okay, I saw the eight-laning between SR 74 and north of SR 54/100. Didn't know they were going down pass the weigh station.


Be well,

Bryant

[Chris]

Also something I noticed about the Downtown Connector in Atlanta:

Traffic volumes!

2007: 288,000
2006: 283,000
2005: 323,000
2004: 349,000
2003: 314,000

How come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

[FLRoads]

Maybe due to sprawl??  As the sprawl moves outward more and more people don't commute into the city as often, they just stay in their sprawled out areas.

[DAL764]

How come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

Improved connections and service on MARTA  .

[Bryant5493]

How come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

Improved connections and service on MARTA  .

Ha! You're joking, you gotta be.


Be well,

Bryant

[DAL764]

Improved connections and service on MARTA  .

Ha! You're joking, you gotta be.

No, I'm serious, they now even provide on-board entertainment  :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZtGz_7WI0

[Bryant5493]

^^ I saw that. That was the funniest thing I've seen, although it's sad that young lady has a problem.

--

Oh, and my previous comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek: I borrowed the line from "Oogie Boogie Song," from "The Nightmare Before Christmas."


Be well,

Bryant

[lamsalfl]

Don't worry.  When gas is back to $4 or higher, they'll come back to the cities.   

[Chris]

I wouldn't be too sure about that... Gas jumped from $ 6 to $ 10 in the Netherlands and people didn't drive less. Only the economic crisis (which hit us mostly after the summer peaks) caused some decrease in miles driven. Mobility is a basic need, people cut back on other things.

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

Well be prepared for a barrage of sprawl along the southwest corridor of Interstate 85. GADOT is presently eight-laning a 29-mile section with ultimate plans to have the entire freeway eight-lanes between Interstate 185 and Interstate 285!

[pippin2424]

The biggest plan right now for an outer  highway is between 75 and 85 in the north to follow  GA route 20 from Buford to Cartersville...still a long way off and probably will not be a full fledged freeway.

[Sykotyk]

The I-285 loop can be brutal during rush hour. Especially, as I've said on another thread, in the southwest corner (by the airport) during rush hour.

A larger beltway is needed. Namely, one that does make it too far away. A lot of people, if given the option of 80 miles or 120 miles (regardless of traffic congestion) will take the 80 mile option.

That's the big problem with loops.

But, it's better to build the bigger loop before it's needed. Once you need it, the land is more expensive, the route becomes more confined, and the overall hassle of building it becomes worse.

Sykotyk

[lamsalfl]

The I-285 loop can be brutal during rush hour. Especially, as I've said on another thread, in the southwest corner (by the airport) during rush hour.

A larger beltway is needed. Namely, one that does make it too far away. A lot of people, if given the option of 80 miles or 120 miles (regardless of traffic congestion) will take the 80 mile option.

That's the big problem with loops.

But, it's better to build the bigger loop before it's needed. Once you need it, the land is more expensive, the route becomes more confined, and the overall hassle of building it becomes worse.

Sykotyk

No way.  A new loop will just mean more sprawl.  Then the new loop will just be filled.  How about people just not live in ubiquitous suburbs in the first place, and live closer to Atlanta?  If MARTA was expanded, things would be better.  Tough tit for the people who choose to live far. 

[Chris]

But wouldn't sprawl continue anyway? They didn't really build new freeways in Los Angeles, but population still grows very fast. Suburbanization continues, so you can better do it in an organized way. Also, Atlanta seems to do quite a good job spreading out jobcenters so not everyone has to go to downtown anymore.

[DAL764]

But wouldn't sprawl continue anyway?

Most definitely. Urban sprawl continues regardless of how many, if any, interstates, train lines or bus lines run into the neighborhood. Urban sprawl is not limited to being caused by new roadways. Sure, they DO play a part, but I would venture the guess that 3/4 of all urban sprawl is traffic route-independent. And given the 'compentence' at MARTA, I'd say that a new 100-mile beltway of Atlanta has a better chance of happening than any newsworthy MARTA expansion.

[Sykotyk]

Government does not tell people where to live.

At least I would hope not. And as for your comment, an outer beltway is more for thru traffic to avoid the metro area, rather than to help those exurbians drive their SUVs back and forth to work in a timely fashion.

Sykotyk

[Alex]

New freeways add to the symptom of sprawl. Arterials are the new sprawl road of choice though, look at Albuquerque, no new freeways yet the sprawl continues further out in Rio Rancho. Expansion of existing freeways is the other way that forwards further sprawl, which is why the eight-laning of Interstate 85 so far south will be an issue to opening up current existing rural lands.

[Bryant5493]

^^ Hopefully, when the freeway widening between Fairburn and Troup County is finished, the 70 mph speed limit will be restored.


Be well,

Bryant

[djracer201]

Well, an 80 mile loop would put it on the southside of Atlanta, just near Macon. I believe the only way a loop will get built now is if its an toll road...

[jackson1300]

One thing about the Atlanta Metro Area is that no matter what you to try to expand, the people are going to gripe and moan and not want it in their area.  MARTA expansion the excuse from the people would be that it brings more crime in to the area. Building new freeways, whether a new loop or just a short length connector would have the treehuggers up in arms.  So no matter what you do, you're damned if you do and damned if you dont