Variable Speed Limits

[cpzilliacus]

I remember when I was in high school and the first portions of the Faurfax County Parkway in Virginia opened without having speed limit signs posted. Under state law that means 55. Back then the road didn't go anywhere and so was empty, so I just might have used it to see how fast the 1977 Ford Granada I drove back then would go (answer: I don't know, the speedometer maxed out at 85 mph). Obviously if I'd been pulled over I'd have been sunk because maximum speed limits in Virginia had been a subject on the knowledge test, so I knew very well that "Officer, there's no speed limit posted on this road" wouldn't have worked. 

A former co-worker who grew up in Fairfax County told me of repeatedly out-running the Federal Aviation Administration Police on the Dulles Access Road (well before 1982, when Va. 267, the Dulles Toll Road was opened to traffic).  This was long enough ago that there was very little traffic on the Access Road.

Yes, it was patrolled in those days by federal officers working for the FAA (who directly ran both Dulles and National Airports at the time and up to 1988, when the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority was created, along with a new MWAA Police Department). 

To this day, I believe the FAA holds title to the land under both airports (including the land under the Access Road and the Toll Road) and to its buildings, which are operated and maintained under a long-term lease by MWAA.

[cpzilliacus]

Does DE 1 sport similar signs in the 65-mph zones as well?  I think yes, but it's been a while since I've used that road.

Someone else will have to answer that one. I haven't been on DE-1 in at least 11 years.



Edited to add: I just remembered that I've seen the other sort of sign, the Daktronics one, somewhere else–US-27 between Pembroke Pines and Weston in Florida. My brother-in-law lives not far from that road and we used it multiple times when we visited in June. Every time we went through there the signs were posted at 50 mph, but a search of this forum found a picture of one set at 55. This is exactly the same sort of sign I mentioned earlier as having been used on the Beltway here in Virginia a few years ago (but not anymore).

I clearly recall those signs from the Capital Beltway work near Va. 241 (Telegraph Road).

I took a look on the Daktronics Web site, and it doesn't say, but what happens with this sign if the electricity goes out?  Does it display a speed limit even without a power source?

No speed limit would be displayed, it's the same as a VMS. I would presume there's a form of backup power inside the device.

It would be nice if they could come up with technology that would display a default limit in case all of the power is out and the battery is drained. 

[1995hoo]

....

Yes, it was patrolled in those days by federal officers working for the FAA (who directly ran both Dulles and National Airports at the time and up to 1988, when the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority was created, along with a new MWAA Police Department). 

....

You can still get a traffic ticket that requires you to go to federal court if a law enforcement officer stops you on federal property. When I've been waiting for the civil docket call at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, I've seen the judges hear a lot of matters stemming from traffic violations on Pentagon property (including some DUIs, speeding, various other things). There are all sorts of places all over the country where that sort of thing can happen.

[cpzilliacus]

....

Yes, it was patrolled in those days by federal officers working for the FAA (who directly ran both Dulles and National Airports at the time and up to 1988, when the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority was created, along with a new MWAA Police Department). 

....

You can still get a traffic ticket that requires you to go to federal court if a law enforcement officer stops you on federal property. When I've been waiting for the civil docket call at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, I've seen the judges hear a lot of matters stemming from traffic violations on Pentagon property (including some DUIs, speeding, various other things). There are all sorts of places all over the country where that sort of thing can happen.

Absolutely correct.

In Virginia, there's the Pentagon, as you correctly mention above. There was an article some years ago in the Washington Post which described an agreement that had been worked-out with the Commonwealth of Virginia and presumably Arlington County and the City of Alexandria which now allows the Pentagon Force Protection Agency (as it is formally called) to function as Virginia law enforcement officers near (but not just on) the Pentagon Reservation, though I don't know if they make all that many arrests for breaking Virginia laws, but they can (at least in theory) issue someone a Virginia summons for a traffic infraction on Va. 27, Va. 110 or I-395. 

Other federal properties open to the general public include the George Washington, Colonial and Blue Ridge Parkways, along with Skyline Drive through Shenandoah National Park.  Any traffic infraction on any of those roads means a federal ticket if a driver gets caught.

Marine Corps Base Quantico, while it has gates that are staffed by armed Marines, allows most drivers to enter, for the Town of Quantico is located "inside" the base (unless you arrive by water on the Potomac River - I was told it's the only situation where a town is surrounded on all [land] sides by a military reservation in the United States).  It is quite possible to get a ticket from the USMC police that patrol the base, though most drivers there seem to be very courteous and careful (for example, speed limit compliance seems to be almost universal at MCB Quantico).

Marines, perhaps more than the other armed forces, are extremely concerned about presenting a good and dignified image to the civilian world.  My job has taken me to Quantico sometimes, and their people (civilian and military) seem to be incredibly nice and willing to help.  Just one example - earlier this year I was on my way to a meeting at at "mainside" Quantico, and as I got to the gate on Fuller Road (entrance from U.S. 1 at Triangle), the Marine sentry was absolutely delighted to give me detailed instructions on how to get to my destination building and where I could best find a place to park (parking there is remarkably constrained for a large military base).

[cpzilliacus]

The New Jersey Turnpike's variable speed limit signs are not bad (though I wish New Jersey's lawmakers would allow the Turnpike Authority to set the signs to display a speed limit of 70 or even 75 MPH ).

this just reinforces my belief that congressdolts should not be in charge of engineering tasks like defining speed limits.

Fortunately, the U.S. Congress is much less involved in speed limit setting now.

But the final call on speed limits is (I believe) in the hands of state legislatures, who set (at a minimum) the statewide maximum limits, and if they are too low (and it's clear that they are far too low on the New Jersey Turnpike, which was engineered and built in the late 1940's and early 1950's with a design speed of 80 MPH along most of its mainline).

Given that vehicles and equipment (especially tires) are a little better than they were in 1951, it seems that the good weather limit on most of the N.J. Turnpike should be at least 75 MPH (and maybe higher).

[agentsteel53]

But the final call on speed limits is (I believe) in the hands of state legislatures, who set (at a minimum) the statewide maximum limits, and if they are too low (and it's clear that they are far too low on the New Jersey Turnpike, which was engineered and built in the late 1940's and early 1950's with a design speed of 80 MPH along most of its mainline).

Given that vehicles and equipment (especially tires) are a little better than they were in 1951, it seems that the good weather limit on most of the N.J. Turnpike should be at least 75 MPH (and maybe higher).

85 seems about right, with 70-75-80 in places of high congestion.  this being an absolute limit, mind you, not featuring a casual 10-15mph of tolerance, which the NJTP seems to have right now.

and indeed, the legislature should stay out of engineering studies.  the maximum extent of the congressassholes' power should be to note that "on all roads in the state of New Jersey, a speed limit, or absence thereof, should be assigned in accordance with engineering and safety principles".

(I can't think of a road in NJ that shouldn't have a speed limit... even rural roads like some sections of US-206 have enough traffic that 60-65 is reasonable.)

[agentsteel53]

It would be nice if they could come up with technology that would display a default limit in case all of the power is out and the battery is drained.

I believe that should be doable.  just have some elements be charged to white and discharged to black, and others vice versa. 

the contrast might not be as optimal as a display with uniform cells, but it would probably be close.  at worst, a ghost of a "55" or whatnot would be visible for all limits.

[cpzilliacus]

But the final call on speed limits is (I believe) in the hands of state legislatures, who set (at a minimum) the statewide maximum limits, and if they are too low (and it's clear that they are far too low on the New Jersey Turnpike, which was engineered and built in the late 1940's and early 1950's with a design speed of 80 MPH along most of its mainline).

Given that vehicles and equipment (especially tires) are a little better than they were in 1951, it seems that the good weather limit on most of the N.J. Turnpike should be at least 75 MPH (and maybe higher).

85 seems about right, with 70-75-80 in places of high congestion.  this being an absolute limit, mind you, not featuring a casual 10-15mph of tolerance, which the NJTP seems to have right now.

A "hard" limit of 80 MPH would be fine with me, with a much lower limit on the Newark Bay Extension (Exits 14A, 14B and 14C) and maybe the "free" I-95 part of the Turnpike west (south) of the George Washington Bridge.

and indeed, the legislature should stay out of engineering studies.  the maximum extent of the congressassholes' power should be to note that "on all roads in the state of New Jersey, a speed limit, or absence thereof, should be assigned in accordance with engineering and safety principles".

The Sierra Club and other anti-highway groups would loudly object for an assortment of reasons to such a common-sense idea.  Never mind that European nations (which this and other U.S. environmental groups profess unlimited admiration when land use and transit are discussed) generally have higher posted motorway speed limits than the U.S. equivalent freeways

(I can't think of a road in NJ that shouldn't have a speed limit... even rural roads like some sections of US-206 have enough traffic that 60-65 is reasonable.)

Perhaps consistent with its image among people who are not from New Jersey, most of my driving in the Garden State has been on the Turnpike and the Parkway, along with I-287, I-295 and I-195.  I've been (infrequently) on I-80, I-78 and the ACE (the ACE being difficult to reach from the Turnpike because of the breezewood at Bellmawr).

[MASTERNC]

I actually saw I-495 down to 45 MPH about 2 weeks ago.  I think it had to do with some strong storms that came through earlier.

[Takumi]

I-264 approaching the Downtown Tunnel has variable speed limits. Last month it was 35 MPH in both directions.

[jeffandnicole]

Here is one of Delaware's signs (from AARoads.com). I've seen these signs, including in bad weather, and they were very easy to read.

Does DE 1 sport similar signs in the 65-mph zones as well?  I think yes, but it's been a while since I've used that road.

It was agreed upon many years ago that all (well, both) of Delaware's 65 mph roadways were to have variable speed limit signs so that the limit could be reduced to 55 mph on bad air-quality days.

As the signs are aging, the numbers are getting very tough to read on occasion.  They appear to have a 'full power' reading, where the numbers are easily legible, but they also seem to have a 'half power' setting, and those numbers can be tough to see.

The signs are also powered by solar power, and the equipment used is also starting to get close to the end of it's useful life.

[jeffandnicole]

Just did some research and I found the signs that NHDOT used - they're Daktronics, of course: http://www.daktronics.com/ProductsServices/Products/ITS-Dynamic-Message-Signs/Variable-Speed-Limit-Signs/Pages/default.aspx

Turns out that they're the new variable signs used on the NJTP, and are also used by Florida in Orlando, and on the Throgs Neck Bridge in New York.

What's interesting is that the picture on the Daktronics website of the NJ Turnpike's assembly is NOT what is used on the NJ Turnpike!!!  The NJ Turnpike Variable Speed Limit numbers are white, with a black background.

[deathtopumpkins]

I-264 approaching the Downtown Tunnel has variable speed limits. Last month it was 35 MPH in both directions.

They're always 35, except are reduced down to 25 in the event of a tunnel closure. The Midtown tunnel has standard signs, and the HRBT, MMMBT, and CBBT have variables that are 55, reduced to 25 when the tunnel is closed and 35 or 45 in inclement weather.

Here is one of Delaware's signs (from AARoads.com). I've seen these signs, including in bad weather, and they were very easy to read.

https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware200/i-495_sb_exit_002_05.jpg

Does DE 1 sport similar signs in the 65-mph zones as well?  I think yes, but it's been a while since I've used that road.

It was agreed upon many years ago that all (well, both) of Delaware's 65 mph roadways were to have variable speed limit signs so that the limit could be reduced to 55 mph on bad air-quality days.

As the signs are aging, the numbers are getting very tough to read on occasion.  They appear to have a 'full power' reading, where the numbers are easily legible, but they also seem to have a 'half power' setting, and those numbers can be tough to see.

The signs are also powered by solar power, and the equipment used is also starting to get close to the end of it's useful life.

This is entirely untrue. DE 1 has a 65 mph limit without variable speed limit signs. And, as I-95 has a speed limit of only 55 mph, which is posted with standard signs, my previous statement that I-495 is the only road in Delaware with variable speed limits remains true.

Just did some research and I found the signs that NHDOT used - they're Daktronics, of course: http://www.daktronics.com/ProductsServices/Products/ITS-Dynamic-Message-Signs/Variable-Speed-Limit-Signs/Pages/default.aspx

Turns out that they're the new variable signs used on the NJTP, and are also used by Florida in Orlando, and on the Throgs Neck Bridge in New York.

What's interesting is that the picture on the Daktronics website of the NJ Turnpike's assembly is NOT what is used on the NJ Turnpike!!!  The NJ Turnpike Variable Speed Limit numbers are white, with a black background.

Even the new signs? I highly doubt Daktronics' website would feature a photoshopped picture of an NJTP sign with a false claim that the NJTA uses their signs.

[Mr. Matté]

Just did some research and I found the signs that NHDOT used - they're Daktronics, of course: http://www.daktronics.com/ProductsServices/Products/ITS-Dynamic-Message-Signs/Variable-Speed-Limit-Signs/Pages/default.aspx

Turns out that they're the new variable signs used on the NJTP, and are also used by Florida in Orlando, and on the Throgs Neck Bridge in New York.

What's interesting is that the picture on the Daktronics website of the NJ Turnpike's assembly is NOT what is used on the NJ Turnpike!!!  The NJ Turnpike Variable Speed Limit numbers are white, with a black background.

Even the new signs? I highly doubt Daktronics' website would feature a photoshopped picture of an NJTP sign with a false claim that the NJTA uses their signs.

I've seen both white-on-black and black-on-white at least on the few signs in use between Exits 8 and 10 with no rhyme nor reason as to when each format is used.

[Alps]

Just did some research and I found the signs that NHDOT used - they're Daktronics, of course: http://www.daktronics.com/ProductsServices/Products/ITS-Dynamic-Message-Signs/Variable-Speed-Limit-Signs/Pages/default.aspx

Turns out that they're the new variable signs used on the NJTP, and are also used by Florida in Orlando, and on the Throgs Neck Bridge in New York.

What's interesting is that the picture on the Daktronics website of the NJ Turnpike's assembly is NOT what is used on the NJ Turnpike!!!  The NJ Turnpike Variable Speed Limit numbers are white, with a black background.

Even the new signs? I highly doubt Daktronics' website would feature a photoshopped picture of an NJTP sign with a false claim that the NJTA uses their signs.

I've seen both white-on-black and black-on-white at least on the few signs in use between Exits 8 and 10 with no rhyme nor reason as to when each format is used.

All of the Daktronics signs are black text on a white background for the speed limits. Anything else is incorrect and may have been a test or someone inexperienced programming.

[sp_redelectric]

Oregon is starting to use variable speed limits - they are currently in effect on U.S. 26 near the Oregon 47 junction at Manning/Staley's Junction (this is west of North Plains, west of the end of the freeway), and they are about to go into effect on southbound I-5 from I-84 to the Terwilliger Curves, and I-405 southbound from U.S. 26 to I-5.



Looks like Oregon is going with the Daktronics sign (??), black numbers on a white background.  The signs are currently covered up, but the "Variable Speed Zone Corridor" signs are appearing and uncovered.

WSDOT is using different signage:

[agentsteel53]

[entering variable speed corridor - max 50 mph]

that's not very variable.  I'd love for someone to hack all the signs to say - horrors! - 65.

[jeffandnicole]

http://www.deldot.gov/traffic/signs.ejs?command=TrafficMessageSigns

Cool page to show the current speeds shown on I-495.

And yes, you are correct...DE 1 does not have variable speed limit signs.  Thought they did.  My bad.

[jeffandnicole]

I-264 approaching the Downtown Tunnel has variable speed limits. Last month it was 35 MPH in both directions.

They're always 35, except are reduced down to 25 in the event of a tunnel closure. The Midtown tunnel has standard signs, and the HRBT, MMMBT, and CBBT have variables that are 55, reduced to 25 when the tunnel is closed and 35 or 45 in inclement weather.

Here is one of Delaware's signs (from AARoads.com). I've seen these signs, including in bad weather, and they were very easy to read.

https://www.aaroads.com/delaware/delaware200/i-495_sb_exit_002_05.jpg

Does DE 1 sport similar signs in the 65-mph zones as well?  I think yes, but it's been a while since I've used that road.

It was agreed upon many years ago that all (well, both) of Delaware's 65 mph roadways were to have variable speed limit signs so that the limit could be reduced to 55 mph on bad air-quality days.

As the signs are aging, the numbers are getting very tough to read on occasion.  They appear to have a 'full power' reading, where the numbers are easily legible, but they also seem to have a 'half power' setting, and those numbers can be tough to see.

The signs are also powered by solar power, and the equipment used is also starting to get close to the end of it's useful life.

This is entirely untrue. DE 1 has a 65 mph limit without variable speed limit signs. And, as I-95 has a speed limit of only 55 mph, which is posted with standard signs, my previous statement that I-495 is the only road in Delaware with variable speed limits remains true.

Just did some research and I found the signs that NHDOT used - they're Daktronics, of course: http://www.daktronics.com/ProductsServices/Products/ITS-Dynamic-Message-Signs/Variable-Speed-Limit-Signs/Pages/default.aspx

Turns out that they're the new variable signs used on the NJTP, and are also used by Florida in Orlando, and on the Throgs Neck Bridge in New York.

What's interesting is that the picture on the Daktronics website of the NJ Turnpike's assembly is NOT what is used on the NJ Turnpike!!!  The NJ Turnpike Variable Speed Limit numbers are white, with a black background.

Even the new signs? I highly doubt Daktronics' website would feature a photoshopped picture of an NJTP sign with a false claim that the NJTA uses their signs.

As recently as about 90 minutes ago, and everytime going back to the beginning of the year when I've seen a new changeable speed limit sign on, the signs were white numbers with black background.  I can't vouch otherwise for the Daktronic's website.  I guess the Turnpike could use black numbers with a white background...the sign is an LED sign afterall so the colors could easily be reversed.

[deathtopumpkins]

I didn't pay attention to them when I was last on the Turnpike back in June (was focused more on the old ones), and I'm not calling you a liar, but my point still stands:

Why would Daktronics lie about the NJTA using their signs and photoshop a picture of one?

[1995hoo]

I found an image on Flickr and have no idea whether it's authentic. See the second image on this page (won't allow direct linking).

Also found this on Wikipedia:

[NE2]

I found an image on Flickr and have no idea whether it's authentic. See the second image on this page (won't allow direct linking).

This one? http://www.flickr.com/photos/wxkeith/6288100978/

[1995hoo]

I found an image on Flickr and have no idea whether it's authentic. See the second image on this page (won't allow direct linking).

This one? http://www.flickr.com/photos/wxkeith/6288100978/

That's the one. Looks like you found it through a different site. The copy I found kept returning a zero-size file when I tried a direct link–a file called "spaceout.gif."

I see the image I linked is no longer the second one on that page, either.

[NE2]

I found an image on Flickr and have no idea whether it's authentic. See the second image on this page (won't allow direct linking).

This one? http://www.flickr.com/photos/wxkeith/6288100978/

That's the one. Looks like you found it through a different site. The copy I found kept returning a zero-size file when I tried a direct link–a file called "spaceout.gif."

I clicked the photo on your link and it took me to the actual Flickr site.

[1995hoo]

I found an image on Flickr and have no idea whether it's authentic. See the second image on this page (won't allow direct linking).

This one? http://www.flickr.com/photos/wxkeith/6288100978/

That's the one. Looks like you found it through a different site. The copy I found kept returning a zero-size file when I tried a direct link–a file called "spaceout.gif."

I clicked the photo on your link and it took me to the actual Flickr site.

Ah So. I clicked the link BELOW the photo and it opened within the same site. Weird.