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Author Topic: New Jersey Turnpike  (Read 1241898 times)

vdeane

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5250 on: December 01, 2023, 10:28:47 PM »

I assume that article is talking about the Western Leg from Exits 15 to 18?

On a different subject, I was driving up the Turnpike from Pennsylvania earlier today and was surprised to see that the original Turnpike Authority Headquarters building near Exit 9 has been completely demolished. I didn't even know that was planned. How long ago was it torn down down?   
From the article:

Quote
“As a former NJ resident, this is the dumbest s*** ever. I don’t understand why widening the approach to a TWO LANE TUNNEL would make anything be better,” wrote another.

Clearly it's I-78.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5251 on: December 02, 2023, 09:30:51 AM »

I assume that article is talking about the Western Leg from Exits 15 to 18?

On a different subject, I was driving up the Turnpike from Pennsylvania earlier today and was surprised to see that the original Turnpike Authority Headquarters building near Exit 9 has been completely demolished. I didn't even know that was planned. How long ago was it torn down down?   
From the article:

Quote
“As a former NJ resident, this is the dumbest s*** ever. I don’t understand why widening the approach to a TWO LANE TUNNEL would make anything be better,” wrote another.

Clearly it's I-78.
The explanation here is simple: The biggest chokepoint is the narrow, antiquated bridge over Newark Bay (officially the Vincent R. Casciano Memorial Bridge) because you have 2 lanes from I-78 and 3 lanes from the Turnpike merge into just 2 lanes across the bridge. Shoulders are needed due to the volume of truck traffic should anyone break down on the span. And there's a ton of industry in the area that needs this bridge for Turnpike access. Provide enough room for traffic to cross Newark Bay without the congestion, without the merging conditions that cause safety concerns, and it will get to NJ 440 and get to all of the industry in Bayonne. It's not to increase any traffic at Holland Tunnel, it's to get traffic flowing and save billions in wear/tear/pollution issues from current conditions.

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5252 on: December 13, 2023, 01:39:03 PM »

I assume that article is talking about the Western Leg from Exits 15 to 18?

On a different subject, I was driving up the Turnpike from Pennsylvania earlier today and was surprised to see that the original Turnpike Authority Headquarters building near Exit 9 has been completely demolished. I didn't even know that was planned. How long ago was it torn down down?   
From the article:

Quote
“As a former NJ resident, this is the dumbest s*** ever. I don’t understand why widening the approach to a TWO LANE TUNNEL would make anything be better,” wrote another.

Clearly it's I-78.
The explanation here is simple: The biggest chokepoint is the narrow, antiquated bridge over Newark Bay (officially the Vincent R. Casciano Memorial Bridge) because you have 2 lanes from I-78 and 3 lanes from the Turnpike merge into just 2 lanes across the bridge. Shoulders are needed due to the volume of truck traffic should anyone break down on the span. And there's a ton of industry in the area that needs this bridge for Turnpike access. Provide enough room for traffic to cross Newark Bay without the congestion, without the merging conditions that cause safety concerns, and it will get to NJ 440 and get to all of the industry in Bayonne. It's not to increase any traffic at Holland Tunnel, it's to get traffic flowing and save billions in wear/tear/pollution issues from current conditions.

It's sad that Hudson County residents have internalized the narcissistic view held by New Yorkers that all the infrastructure in the tri-state area is there to serve Manhattan.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5253 on: December 24, 2023, 04:43:13 PM »

Interesting article about the NJ Turnpike. Call it click bait or old news but 101.5 radio published it sometimes and thought it's an interesting story.

https://943thepoint.com/most-expensive-new-jersey-toll-road/
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5254 on: December 24, 2023, 05:00:32 PM »

Is it a "narcissistic view", or is it the truth?
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5255 on: December 24, 2023, 06:36:36 PM »

Is it a "narcissistic view", or is it the truth?

Depends on how you see it. At least the person acknowledges that there are other roads even more expensive than New Jersey. Then again the NJ Turnpike is also expensive in another way.

The publisher, at least is letting the reader decide.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5256 on: December 24, 2023, 07:11:54 PM »

Interesting article about the NJ Turnpike. Call it click bait or old news but 101.5 radio published it sometimes and thought it's an interesting story.

https://943thepoint.com/most-expensive-new-jersey-toll-road/

Seemed worthless to me. It compared average toll paid rather than toll per mile. Of course the PA Turnpike will have an average higher toll - it’s longer and doesn’t have the short commuter trips the way the NJ Turnpike does
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5257 on: December 24, 2023, 11:01:28 PM »

Interesting article about the NJ Turnpike. Call it click bait or old news but 101.5 radio published it sometimes and thought it's an interesting story.

https://943thepoint.com/most-expensive-new-jersey-toll-road/

Seemed worthless to me. It compared average toll paid rather than toll per mile. Of course the PA Turnpike will have an average higher toll - it’s longer and doesn’t have the short commuter trips the way the NJ Turnpike does

Oh, it's worthless all right.  By clicking on the source (AZ Animals, whoever that is) to view the 10 highest priced toll roads: 

The website's #7 most expensive toll road is:  The Delaware Turnpike, at $14.00.  The claim:  "The Delaware Turnpike is the seventh most expensive toll road in the United States, with an average cost of $14.00 for a passenger car. The turnpike is 67 miles long and runs from the New Jersey border to the Maryland border."
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lstone19

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5258 on: December 24, 2023, 11:49:48 PM »

Oh, it's worthless all right.  By clicking on the source (AZ Animals, whoever that is) to view the 10 highest priced toll roads: 

The website's #7 most expensive toll road is:  The Delaware Turnpike, at $14.00.  The claim:  "The Delaware Turnpike is the seventh most expensive toll road in the United States, with an average cost of $14.00 for a passenger car. The turnpike is 67 miles long and runs from the New Jersey border to the Maryland border."

Worse yet, it lists Illinois’ “Ronald Reagan Tollway” (I-88) with a distance that I believe is the total of the entire Illinois Tollway system and an average toll of $26.45. The actual total of the four mainline plazas on I-88 is $5.10 I-Pass / $10.20 Online. If an I-Pass car went through every mainline plaza (not that that’s possible in a single trip), it would total about $17. And the average is going to be much less. So less than worthless.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5259 on: December 24, 2023, 11:59:17 PM »

Oh, it's worthless all right.  By clicking on the source (AZ Animals, whoever that is) to view the 10 highest priced toll roads: 

The website's #7 most expensive toll road is:  The Delaware Turnpike, at $14.00.  The claim:  "The Delaware Turnpike is the seventh most expensive toll road in the United States, with an average cost of $14.00 for a passenger car. The turnpike is 67 miles long and runs from the New Jersey border to the Maryland border."

Worse yet, it lists Illinois’ “Ronald Reagan Tollway” (I-88) with a distance that I believe is the total of the entire Illinois Tollway system and an average toll of $26.45. The actual total of the four mainline plazas on I-88 is $5.10 I-Pass / $10.20 Online. If an I-Pass car went through every mainline plaza (not that that’s possible in a single trip), it would total about $17. And the average is going to be much less. So less than worthless.

For the PA Turnpike, the average toll appears to have been calculated if the average traveler traveled from the PA/OH Border to the NE Extension, then North to Mt. Pocono, without an EZ Pass. 
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lstone19

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5260 on: December 25, 2023, 12:23:55 AM »

Oh, it's worthless all right.  By clicking on the source (AZ Animals, whoever that is) to view the 10 highest priced toll roads: 

The website's #7 most expensive toll road is:  The Delaware Turnpike, at $14.00.  The claim:  "The Delaware Turnpike is the seventh most expensive toll road in the United States, with an average cost of $14.00 for a passenger car. The turnpike is 67 miles long and runs from the New Jersey border to the Maryland border."

Worse yet, it lists Illinois’ “Ronald Reagan Tollway” (I-88) with a distance that I believe is the total of the entire Illinois Tollway system and an average toll of $26.45. The actual total of the four mainline plazas on I-88 is $5.10 I-Pass / $10.20 Online. If an I-Pass car went through every mainline plaza (not that that’s possible in a single trip), it would total about $17. And the average is going to be much less. So less than worthless.

For the PA Turnpike, the average toll appears to have been calculated if the average traveler traveled from the PA/OH Border to the NE Extension, then North to Mt. Pocono, without an EZ Pass.

I can't come up with a plausible way to get to $26.45 on the Illinois Tollway. Since all online tolls are double the I-Pass toll, online has to be a multiple of $0.10. And the sum of all the mainline plazas (not that you can get to all in one trip) is less than $20 I-Pass; the most expensive continuous trip you can make without leaving the Tollway is about $6 I-Pass / $12 Online.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5261 on: December 25, 2023, 02:10:00 AM »

I will say one thing. AZ Animals don’t know anything about both Delaware and Florida. Like Jeff pointed out, they have the Delaware Turnpike at 67 miles and as far as Florida goes, the turnpike in the Sunshine State running from Homestead to Jacksonville when the road goes no where near Jacksonville.

What’s interesting is this is shared by a radio station who has loyal listeners who gobble this crap up.  Most of the people who believe this are those who are not on the spectrum and are typical Americans with families and hear to believe this. No wonder why we are a messed up culture here in our own nation. If this is allowed, then we have to assume other stuff is to.

However, I would say that New Jersey Turnpike is one of ( not the) the most expensive roads around. Also not at $14 average, Delaware is still high per mile for its 11 miles of actual freeway.  Plus PA at shelling out over a hundred bucks is the most expensive one trip travel around despite it mileage.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5262 on: December 25, 2023, 09:02:05 AM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5263 on: December 25, 2023, 09:08:57 AM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5264 on: December 25, 2023, 09:19:06 AM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.

Not related but from my understanding its pretty easy to shunpike the toll for the Delaware turnpike, although apparently you can get a ticket for doing that?
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5265 on: December 25, 2023, 12:34:16 PM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.

Not related but from my understanding its pretty easy to shunpike the toll for the Delaware turnpike, although apparently you can get a ticket for doing that?
Maybe if you're a truck.

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5266 on: December 25, 2023, 12:35:15 PM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.
to avoid the traffic from NYC to richmond use I-78, I-81, and US 15 (or I-70 if you must) to I-270.

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5267 on: December 25, 2023, 12:44:59 PM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.
I’m not sure people are using those routes to avoid the tolls, but rather to avoid the traffic in the Washington-Baltimore metropolitan area and that segment of I-95 between Northern Virginia and Richmond.

Also, most would cut over down near I-26 in South Carolina, following I-77 to I-81 - not indirectly via I-64 at Richmond. Over a 12+ hour drive, it only adds roughly an hour, which can easily be added to the direct I-95 route if you hit the Washington-Baltimore metro at the wrong time. There is also substantially less traffic in comparison to I-95.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5268 on: December 25, 2023, 06:41:48 PM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.

Not related but from my understanding its pretty easy to shunpike the toll for the Delaware turnpike, although apparently you can get a ticket for doing that?

They only enforce that on truck traffic. Not worth the enforcement effort for $4 car toll, but it is for the very expensive truck toll. I shunpike the Delaware toll plaza all the time.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5269 on: December 25, 2023, 10:58:33 PM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.

Not related but from my understanding its pretty easy to shunpike the toll for the Delaware turnpike, although apparently you can get a ticket for doing that?

They only enforce that on truck traffic. Not worth the enforcement effort for $4 car toll, but it is for the very expensive truck toll. I shunpike the Delaware toll plaza all the time.

There's nothing to enforce.  There's nothing illegal about exiting a toll road, using state highways in 2 different states, and returning to the highway.

What they're enforcing on truck traffic isn't evading the toll; they're enforcing a 4 Ton weight Limit on Route 4.  If a trucker wanted to exit 95 prior to the toll plaza, go to US 40, cross the state light, then return to I-95, there's still nothing illegal occurring. 
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5270 on: December 26, 2023, 02:11:03 AM »

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uF9yFzWbcUSZAvdA8
Back in New Jersey. One of the things I find cool ( and the MUTCD should adopt this) is 1000 feet before an emergency median crossover between the carriageways is this small sign informing EMTs where the median break is located.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5271 on: December 26, 2023, 10:55:30 AM »

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uF9yFzWbcUSZAvdA8
Back in New Jersey. One of the things I find cool ( and the MUTCD should adopt this) is 1000 feet before an emergency median crossover between the carriageways is this small sign informing EMTs where the median break is located.
Anyone else read that sign as "DC 1000"?
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5272 on: December 26, 2023, 11:04:33 AM »

Oh, it's worthless all right.  By clicking on the source (AZ Animals, whoever that is) to view the 10 highest priced toll roads: 

The website's #7 most expensive toll road is:  The Delaware Turnpike, at $14.00.  The claim:  "The Delaware Turnpike is the seventh most expensive toll road in the United States, with an average cost of $14.00 for a passenger car. The turnpike is 67 miles long and runs from the New Jersey border to the Maryland border."

Worse yet, it lists Illinois’ “Ronald Reagan Tollway” (I-88) with a distance that I believe is the total of the entire Illinois Tollway system and an average toll of $26.45. The actual total of the four mainline plazas on I-88 is $5.10 I-Pass / $10.20 Online. If an I-Pass car went through every mainline plaza (not that that’s possible in a single trip), it would total about $17. And the average is going to be much less. So less than worthless.

For the PA Turnpike, the average toll appears to have been calculated if the average traveler traveled from the PA/OH Border to the NE Extension, then North to Mt. Pocono, without an EZ Pass.

I can't come up with a plausible way to get to $26.45 on the Illinois Tollway. Since all online tolls are double the I-Pass toll, online has to be a multiple of $0.10. And the sum of all the mainline plazas (not that you can get to all in one trip) is less than $20 I-Pass; the most expensive continuous trip you can make without leaving the Tollway is about $6 I-Pass / $12 Online.

For the Delaware Turnpike, my only theory is if they incorrectly included the mileage for the adjoining JFK Highway in Maryland towards that 67-mile total they came up with. As for the $14 toll, only way I can think of to reach that number is a roundtrip on the JFK Highway & Delaware Turnpike with a Maryland E-ZPass: $6 (MD rate) northbound only at the Tydings Bridge, then $4 each way at the Newark toll plaza.

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.

Not related but from my understanding its pretty easy to shunpike the toll for the Delaware turnpike, although apparently you can get a ticket for doing that?

They only enforce that on truck traffic. Not worth the enforcement effort for $4 car toll, but it is for the very expensive truck toll. I shunpike the Delaware toll plaza all the time.

There's nothing to enforce.  There's nothing illegal about exiting a toll road, using state highways in 2 different states, and returning to the highway.

What they're enforcing on truck traffic isn't evading the toll; they're enforcing a 4 Ton weight Limit on Route 4.  If a trucker wanted to exit 95 prior to the toll plaza, go to US 40, cross the state light, then return to I-95, there's still nothing illegal occurring. 

I forget where I read this, but my understanding is that there's no actual structural limitations with the bridges or pavement along that stretch of DE 4. So it is indeed for legal & ticketing purposes a weight limit along that stretch, but the motivation behind it still appears to be to knock out the easiest shunpiking route for trucks.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5273 on: December 26, 2023, 11:43:59 AM »

To play devils advocate here, atleast with PA you have a free freeway alternative (I-80, keystone shortway) with the NJ Turnpike you cant go the full N-S length of NJ on a non-tolled freeway (I-295 gets about halfway through the state)

Delaware the same thing. I-95 has no freeway alternatives.  That’s why most to avoid the tolls from NYC to Richmond use I-78, I-81, and I-64, going hundreds of miles out.

Not related but from my understanding its pretty easy to shunpike the toll for the Delaware turnpike, although apparently you can get a ticket for doing that?

They only enforce that on truck traffic. Not worth the enforcement effort for $4 car toll, but it is for the very expensive truck toll. I shunpike the Delaware toll plaza all the time.

From what I've heard, it is fairly easy to get a speeding ticket along the most common shunpike routes there, which I suppose is fairly understandable. As has been noted, there's nothing illegal about bypassing a toll plaza (unless the roads you would use are somehow restricted in a way that makes it illegal for you to use them, such as a truck restriction), but there's also nothing illegal about the police knowing that people do this and targeting those people for stricter enforcement of traffic laws like speeding, running red lights, whatever, and it's hardly a surprise the police would do so.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #5274 on: December 26, 2023, 12:24:06 PM »

https://maps.app.goo.gl/zQ1YDgd11CyUr7ZZ7
Is that left toll lane at 18E using the passenger side window to distribute the tickets? I know once upon a time Exit 1 had a lane where the collector was on the right and either collected money from the right passenger or gave out tickets from the right.  Is the NJTA still doing that here ?

Never mind. I panned back. It’s EZ Pass only. Sorry.

They did though have that setup reaching across or having the passenger pay the toll in the seventies in South Jersey.  It was odd, but even  Disney had that entering the Magic Kingdom parking toll. One person collected two tolls fro two windows.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2023, 12:34:01 PM by roadman65 »
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