New Jersey Turnpike

[roadman65]

Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

Exit 4's SB on ramp charges a toll too, probably for the same reason in reverse (soaking the Wildwoods-to-CMLF crowd, though NJ 47/US 9 shunpiking is available in this case too).  Talk about strategic location.

I think it's to compete with Cape May County charging tolls on the drawbridge along Ocean Drive.  I remember at one time there were billboards coming off the CMLF advertising to use Ocean Drive as the "best way to The Wildwoods."

[storm2k]

Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

Exit 4's SB on ramp charges a toll too, probably for the same reason in reverse (soaking the Wildwoods-to-CMLF crowd, though NJ 47/US 9 shunpiking is available in this case too).  Talk about strategic location.

I think it's to compete with Cape May County charging tolls on the drawbridge along Ocean Drive.  I remember at one time there were billboards coming off the CMLF advertising to use Ocean Drive as the "best way to The Wildwoods."

I am pretty sure this is the reason. it is cheaper to take the Parkway to head from Wildwood to Cape May and back (1.40 round trip vs 5.50 to take the Middle Thoroughfare bridge). I never did quite understand why the Highway Authority (and later the Turnpike Authority) never tried to toll the ramps to and from 47 EB heading towards the Wildwoods, as they would bring in a lot of toll revenue (they could conceivably do the same at Exit 6 to prevent shunpiking unless travelers got off earlier and used Rt 9 to 147 or 47 instead).

[jeffandnicole]

Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

Exit 4's SB on ramp charges a toll too, probably for the same reason in reverse (soaking the Wildwoods-to-CMLF crowd, though NJ 47/US 9 shunpiking is available in this case too).  Talk about strategic location.

I think it's to compete with Cape May County charging tolls on the drawbridge along Ocean Drive.  I remember at one time there were billboards coming off the CMLF advertising to use Ocean Drive as the "best way to The Wildwoods."

I am pretty sure this is the reason. it is cheaper to take the Parkway to head from Wildwood to Cape May and back (1.40 round trip vs 5.50 to take the Middle Thoroughfare bridge). I never did quite understand why the Highway Authority (and later the Turnpike Authority) never tried to toll the ramps to and from 47 EB heading towards the Wildwoods, as they would bring in a lot of toll revenue (they could conceivably do the same at Exit 6 to prevent shunpiking unless travelers got off earlier and used Rt 9 to 147 or 47 instead).

In theory, the former two-way Cape May Toll Plaza at MP 19 accounted for all SB tolling south of the point. But in reality the entire system has always suffered from an uneven tolling structure where not much made sense.

[roadman65]

Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

Exit 4's SB on ramp charges a toll too, probably for the same reason in reverse (soaking the Wildwoods-to-CMLF crowd, though NJ 47/US 9 shunpiking is available in this case too).  Talk about strategic location.

I think it's to compete with Cape May County charging tolls on the drawbridge along Ocean Drive.  I remember at one time there were billboards coming off the CMLF advertising to use Ocean Drive as the "best way to The Wildwoods."

I am pretty sure this is the reason. it is cheaper to take the Parkway to head from Wildwood to Cape May and back (1.40 round trip vs 5.50 to take the Middle Thoroughfare bridge). I never did quite understand why the Highway Authority (and later the Turnpike Authority) never tried to toll the ramps to and from 47 EB heading towards the Wildwoods, as they would bring in a lot of toll revenue (they could conceivably do the same at Exit 6 to prevent shunpiking unless travelers got off earlier and used Rt 9 to 147 or 47 instead).

In theory, the former two-way Cape May Toll Plaza at MP 19 accounted for all SB tolling south of the point. But in reality the entire system has always suffered from an uneven tolling structure where not much made sense.

North of Union it kind of makes sense. As you have Exits 143, 157, and 163 as midpoints between tolls, however not in the middle as the the former Highway authority charged mainly NB off and SB on tolling to get the most money out of commuters heading to and from North Jersey from more Central Jersey Points. Only SB 142 is the exception as I-78 was added later and very close to the Union Plaza.


Also to note no SB exits or NB entrances north of Pasack Valley Plaza either. That's to get Thruway motorists to pay the toll at Pascack Valley first before exiting elsewhere on the road and for no locals using the Parkway for free NB north of the plaza from the crossroads.  Of course with one way tolling it changed that some, but the original concept made sense.

[storm2k]

Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

Exit 4's SB on ramp charges a toll too, probably for the same reason in reverse (soaking the Wildwoods-to-CMLF crowd, though NJ 47/US 9 shunpiking is available in this case too).  Talk about strategic location.

I think it's to compete with Cape May County charging tolls on the drawbridge along Ocean Drive.  I remember at one time there were billboards coming off the CMLF advertising to use Ocean Drive as the "best way to The Wildwoods."

I am pretty sure this is the reason. it is cheaper to take the Parkway to head from Wildwood to Cape May and back (1.40 round trip vs 5.50 to take the Middle Thoroughfare bridge). I never did quite understand why the Highway Authority (and later the Turnpike Authority) never tried to toll the ramps to and from 47 EB heading towards the Wildwoods, as they would bring in a lot of toll revenue (they could conceivably do the same at Exit 6 to prevent shunpiking unless travelers got off earlier and used Rt 9 to 147 or 47 instead).

In theory, the former two-way Cape May Toll Plaza at MP 19 accounted for all SB tolling south of the point. But in reality the entire system has always suffered from an uneven tolling structure where not much made sense.

North of Union it kind of makes sense. As you have Exits 143, 157, and 163 as midpoints between tolls, however not in the middle as the the former Highway authority charged mainly NB off and SB on tolling to get the most money out of commuters heading to and from North Jersey from more Central Jersey Points. Only SB 142 is the exception as I-78 was added later and very close to the Union Plaza.

Well when Union was two way tolling, the way they had it laid out made sense, either you paid the toll at the mainline plaza or you paid it on the ramp so they got you either way coming on or off 78. The eliminated the toll from the southbound ramp to 78 West (and just never had that as an option for the new ramp to 78 East) to match the one way tolling config.

[roadman65]

Also one can enter from both Union Avenue ramps  to the Parkway South ( yes the 143 SB ramp is from the very same Union Avenue that is in Union from 142C)  as well as I-78 to the SB Parkway now and not pay a toll as well.

[NJRoadfan]

Have all the ticket toll roads that switched to full ETC gone to having a mainline gantry after every entrance point? That is, did any of them retain the "closed ticket" form of E-ZPass transactions logging your enter and exit points?

[Dough4872]

Have all the ticket toll roads that switched to full ETC gone to having a mainline gantry after every entrance point? That is, did any of them retain the "closed ticket" form of E-ZPass transactions logging your enter and exit points?

The Pennsylvania Turnpike currently does ETC at the former toll plazas at interchanges but is in the process of installing mainline toll gantries between interchanges.

[lstone19]

Have all the ticket toll roads that switched to full ETC gone to having a mainline gantry after every entrance point? That is, did any of them retain the "closed ticket" form of E-ZPass transactions logging your enter and exit points?

When the NY Thruway went ETC, the former 15 to 50 ticket section was divided into five virtual ticket sections with short sections in between them with mainline gantries between interchanges. The Erie section, the other former ticket section between 55 and 61, is now one virtual ticket section.

[roadman65]

You know the PTC did this setup with cash around Scranton.  They had the mainline toll between Keyser Avenue and Wyoming Valley and used the former Exit 39 toll at Clark's Summit to be a mainline instead of tolling the ramp NB and SB on from Keyser. The Clark's Summit Plaza charged all users from Keyser Avenue to the norther terminus and the mainline plaza between Wyoming Valley and Keyser Avenue charged all travel between PA 315 and Keyser without the need to have ramp tolls that sometimes aren't fair.

Heck in Florida you have one toll facility that you can actually pay twice for traveling one exit. If you enter FL 417 NB from University Blvd you paid an an entrance ramp toll. Then drive one exit to Aloma Ave. and pay a toll to exit there too.  Ditto driving from Aloma SB to University. One exit two tolls which is unheard of.

IL did something similar at O' Hare for their tollways. Having the mainlines split by having a mainline north on I-294 of the airport and the SB I-294 counterpart south of the airport. This way you paid after entering all tollways including the Jane Addams tollway.  Plus the Jane Addams mainline at O' Hare is WB only as EB would pay at the mainlines on I-294 either SB or NB. Plus having the tolls split on I-294 allowed those traveling I-294 to I-90 WB to pay only at the Jane Addams mainline as well. However a ramp toll was placed entering the Airport or to exit at I-90 EB as those motorists yet haven't reached any of the post airport mainlines, but the I-90/190 ramp tolls charged the same as the mainline tolls, but it was fair and a clever arrangement when first built.

[lstone19]

Heck in Florida you have one toll facility that you can actually pay twice for traveling one exit. If you enter FL 417 NB from University Blvd you paid an an entrance ramp toll. Then drive one exit to Aloma Ave. and pay a toll to exit there too.  Ditto driving from Aloma SB to University. One exit two tolls which is unheard of.

IL did something similar at O' Hare for their tollways. Having the mainlines split by having a mainline north on I-294 of the airport and the SB I-294 counterpart south of the airport. This way you paid after entering all tollways including the Jane Addams tollway.  Plus the Jane Addams mainline at O' Hare is WB only as EB would pay at the mainlines on I-294 either SB or NB. Plus having the tolls split on I-294 allowed those traveling I-294 to I-90 WB to pay only at the Jane Addams mainline as well. However a ramp toll was placed entering the Airport or to exit at I-90 EB as those motorists yet haven't reached any of the post airport mainlines, but the I-90/190 ramp tolls charged the same as the mainline tolls, but it was fair and a clever arrangement when first built.

The good and bad of Illinois Tollways. As they've made changes, they have also created places (mostly along I-90) where you pay to enter and the pay to exit at the first exit opportunity. There should always be an opportunity to exit without an additional toll after you pay a toll.

OTOH, the O'Hare arrangement (which goes back to the Tollway's beginning) is well thought out. No matter how you arrive at the O'Hare interchange complex, you pay a toll as you exit the complex (whether on a ramp or mainline). Nobody pays twice and nobody gets a free ride. Similarly, the I-294/I-88 complex is well thought out with I-294 through traffic paying at an I-294 mainline toll while I-88 traffic to/from I-294 pay at an I-88 mainline toll with the I-294 mainline too between the ramps to/from I-88.

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cs5FuHoDdfYNnmjc9
The exit overhead at SB Exit 4 is been dismantled in the GSV caption . Does this mean normal exit guides here with MUTCD compliant are coming to this locale?

Look back and see the former guide just had exit number only and no mention of Route 73 or Camden which was not in union with anything.

Oh never mind.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/igWQuQcLZu33sxq7A
It has new compliant signs.

[jeffandnicole]

...Oh never mind.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/igWQuQcLZu33sxq7A
It has new compliant signs.

I still disagree with the NJ Turnpike's approach that they say the exit is 1/4 mile ahead...when the decel lane is beginning.

[74/171FAN]

Here is the 1/4 mile sign on the NJTP NB approaching Exit 4 (NJ 73) taken on Saturday. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10219681141179562&set=a.10219681205621173)

[Alps]

...Oh never mind.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/igWQuQcLZu33sxq7A
It has new compliant signs.

I still disagree with the NJ Turnpike's approach that they say the exit is 1/4 mile ahead...when the decel lane is beginning.

1/4 mile sign belongs 1/4 mile before the exit gore, per MUTCD. NJTP chooses to have a long exit to facilitate decel.

[SignBridge]

Besides what Alps pointed out, NJTA puts the exit direction sign with the arrow overhead at the gore point. The more common placement on many highways for that sign is at the beginning of the deceleration lane. But because NJTA puts it at the gore point, the sign at the deceleration lane necessarily has to show distance such as a quarter mile. The Manual does not allow for two exit direction signs with the up arrow.

Interestingly New York State has an exception to that rule which does allow two exit direction signs in that configuration, both with the up arrow. I prefer New York's policy, but as Alps said, the NJTA set-up does follow MUTCD spec's. 

[jeffandnicole]

Besides what Alps pointed out, NJTA puts the exit direction sign with the arrow overhead at the gore point. The more common placement on many highways for that sign is at the beginning of the deceleration lane. But because NJTA puts it at the gore point, the sign at the deceleration lane necessarily has to show distance such as a quarter mile. The Manual does not allow for two exit direction signs with the up arrow.

Interestingly New York State has an exception to that rule which does allow two exit direction signs in that configuration, both with the up arrow. I prefer New York's policy, but as Alps said, the NJTA set-up is does follow MUTCD spec's. 

Previously, the Turnpike generally used overhead signage at the 2 mile and 1 mile marks only.  The 1/4 mile signage is a new addition, but it just appears odd at the location used.  I'd rather have seen them use a 1/2 mile sign then use the arrow sign in its more commonly used location.

[roadman65]

I think it's there using their old gantries and just adding the signs to it rather than erect new signs.

Surprised that Philadelphia is removed from Exit 4, but that is most likely cause Exit 6 earlier connects to I-95 south for Philadelphia. NB you have I-95 from Farnhurst, DE or Exit 3 in Bellmawr to NJ 168, I-295, and I-76.

[jeffandnicole]

I think it's there using their old gantries and just adding the signs to it rather than erect new signs.

They're new gantries; the old ones were silver, the new are rust colored. And off the right shoulder it's a new concrete support. But otherwise it's in the same spot as before.

[roadman65]

I think it's there using their old gantries and just adding the signs to it rather than erect new signs.

They're new gantries; the old ones were silver, the new are rust colored. And off the right shoulder it's a new concrete support. But otherwise it's in the same spot as before.

In many interchanges, they used old ones, but yes generally they're new in or about the same spot. Exit 4 SB got moved back to before the deceleration lanes on a new rust colored gantry. The NB uses the old Exit 4 gantry that had a lane control arrow for the deceleration lane as I assume it still has life in it as it's SB counterpart must of been functionally obsolete and determined its outlived its service life for replacement.

[storm2k]

I think it's there using their old gantries and just adding the signs to it rather than erect new signs.

Surprised that Philadelphia is removed from Exit 4, but that is most likely cause Exit 6 earlier connects to I-95 south for Philadelphia. NB you have I-95 from Farnhurst, DE or Exit 3 in Bellmawr to NJ 168, I-295, and I-76.

Nope, these are new. NJTA has been using the rust-colored sign structures (both gantries and cantilevers) since around 2000. The gantries that this replaced were from the early 1970s and were well beyond their service life.

I expect we'll eventually get new signs at the gore points where they remove the overhead gore point arrow signs (the "Exit 4" with the classic NJTA arrow) and replace it with a more standard gore point sign showing the route and control cities with a standard MUTCD arrow.

[roadman65]

I think it's there using their old gantries and just adding the signs to it rather than erect new signs.

Surprised that Philadelphia is removed from Exit 4, but that is most likely cause Exit 6 earlier connects to I-95 south for Philadelphia. NB you have I-95 from Farnhurst, DE or Exit 3 in Bellmawr to NJ 168, I-295, and I-76.

Nope, these are new. NJTA has been using the rust-colored sign structures (both gantries and cantilevers) since around 2000. The gantries that this replaced were from the early 1970s and were well beyond their service life.

I expect we'll eventually get new signs at the gore points where they remove the overhead gore point arrow signs (the "Exit 4" with the classic NJTA arrow) and replace it with a more standard gore point sign showing the route and control cities with a standard MUTCD arrow.

I didn't mean old as in ancient, I meant to old before the recent MUTCD change. In most cases the NJTA when converting to MUTCD left the preexisting gantries ( no matter how old or new) up and added the odd 1/4 mile guides ( as Jeff pointed out shouldn't be used at a start of a deceleration lane why I consider them odd) were most likely considered for supporting them because, simply, that they're there.

I also noticed that SB Exit 4 replaced ( and relocated) a guide on a newer gantry in that NB at the same interchange kept using the preexisting and hypothesized that maybe the NJTA didn't replace the gantry was that the last inspection revealed it still had life in it making it cost effective to keep it unlike it's SB counterpart that revealed to be cost prohibitive to maintain.

[bwana39]

Againers on the NJT

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/residents-outraged-over-controversial-10-billion-highway-expansion-in-major-city-i-don-t-understand-why/ar-AA1kN8xH?cvid=91d3cb30766247dd805b17446d317d56&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=9

[SignBridge]

I assume that article is talking about the Western Leg from Exits 15 to 18?

On a different subject, I was driving up the Turnpike from Pennsylvania earlier today and was surprised to see that the original Turnpike Authority Headquarters building near Exit 9 has been completely demolished. I didn't even know that was planned. How long ago was it torn down down?   

[Rothman]

I assume that article is talking about the Western Leg from Exits 15 to 18?

On a different subject, I was driving up the Turnpike from Pennsylvania earlier today and was surprised to see that the original Turnpike Authority Headquarters building near Exit 9 has been completely demolished. I didn't even know that was planned. How long ago was it torn down down?

That was discussed on the forum somewhere, maybe even in this thread...