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Author Topic: I-73 updates?  (Read 53960 times)

westerninterloper

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #175 on: October 03, 2021, 03:27:15 PM »

US 24, the Fort-to-Port (Ft Wayne to Toledo) expressway replaced a 2-lane road that was completely inadequate for the traffic it generated, and also connected Ft Wayne much better to Detroit and Cleveland, not just Toledo. It's not comparable to the US 23 segment in Delaware County.

More comparable is what Indiana is doing with US 31 north of Indianapolis. It had similar characteristics - connecting the state capital with a top-5 metro at the edge of the state that originally did not have deep economic connections to each other - South Bend is much closer to Chicago; Toledo to Detroit -- but now Indiana has rebuilt 31 on the northside of the metro area, but much of the rural areas remain a limited access expressway, like US 23, 24, and 41.

Toledo doesn't necessarily need a freeway to Columbus, it can do with an expressway. SR 15 and US 23 between Findlay and Upper Sandusky are lightly traveled.

Delaware County's section of US 23 most certainly needs to be rebuilt as a 4-6 lane freeway, but the rest of the highway can get by on small improvements, and capacity upgrades like the recently completed 6-laning of I 75 between Findlay and Perrysburg.

Without Toledo and Columbus both pushing for I-73, it will not progress; and as an interstate, it's going to take multi-state cooperation to develop a new interstate. There is not the political will right now for that in Michigan or Kentucky that I can see -- Michigan is trying to keep up the roads they have, and Kentucky is preoccupied with Ohio River bridges. I-73 proponents have a hard case to make.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 03:31:08 PM by westerninterloper »
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JREwing78

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #176 on: October 03, 2021, 04:58:08 PM »

US 24, the Fort-to-Port (Ft Wayne to Toledo) expressway replaced a 2-lane road that was completely inadequate for the traffic it generated, and also connected Ft Wayne much better to Detroit and Cleveland, not just Toledo. It's not comparable to the US 23 segment in Delaware County.

But they are comparable! In fact, Fort to Port is probably the best comparison here. Perhaps this is accidental - neither Fort Wayne nor Toledo had the meteoric growth Columbus has. Perhaps it's because they saw what happened with routes like US-23 when development made freeway upgrades economically not feasible. But with Fort to Port they didn't allow development to prevent straightforward construction of a 4-lane expressway/freeway facility, unlike with the Toledo-Columbus connection south of Waldo.

US-24 and US-30 west of Mansfield are evidence that ODOT learned that lesson, and belatedly they appear to be addressing the problem with the corridor study. But waiting until now to address the problem means the solutions are going to be far more expensive than they would have otherwise been.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #177 on: October 07, 2021, 12:16:33 AM »

I do agree that there should be a full freeway connection between Columbus and Toledo (and by extension, to Detroit and the rest of Michigan). A short freeway connecting US 23 to I-71 north of Delaware or a freeway connecting US 23 to US 33 north and parallel to US 42 would both work as would upgrading US 68 to freeway between Findlay and Bellefontaine.
AFAIK, ODOT is studying both alternatives to the west and east of US 23 for a better connection between I-270 and Waldo, with the western routing heading towards US 33, and the eastern routing towards I-71.

Best option: US-23 upgrade.

Not a bad option: US-33 to either Ohio-235 or US-68 > and then to US-30/I-75.

Ohio should consider using the same method Texas and Florida use for their highways. Just jam a freeway through there and build frontage roads for access to the existing businesses.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #178 on: October 07, 2021, 12:58:31 AM »

Best option: US-23 upgrade.

Not a bad option: US-33 to either Ohio-235 or US-68 > and then to US-30/I-75.

Ohio should consider using the same method Texas and Florida use for their highways. Just jam a freeway through there and build frontage roads for access to the existing businesses.
It comes down to cost. It would be significantly cheaper, and less disruptful, to use the existing, parallel I-71 freeway, then construct a new east-west connector to the existing, limited access portion of US-23 north of Waldo.
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SkyPesos

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #179 on: October 07, 2021, 01:05:34 AM »

Best option: US-23 upgrade.

Not a bad option: US-33 to either Ohio-235 or US-68 > and then to US-30/I-75.

Ohio should consider using the same method Texas and Florida use for their highways. Just jam a freeway through there and build frontage roads for access to the existing businesses.
It comes down to cost. It would be significantly cheaper, and less disruptful, to use the existing, parallel I-71 freeway, then construct a new east-west connector to the existing, limited access portion of US-23 north of Waldo.
I would prefer it to be more SE-NW than straight E-W, somewhat like the "I-171" vtk proposed in fictional a while ago, but same idea with same end goal.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #180 on: October 07, 2021, 02:29:52 AM »


It comes down to cost. It would be significantly cheaper, and less disruptful, to use the existing, parallel I-71 freeway, then construct a new east-west connector to the existing, limited access portion of US-23 north of Waldo.

The cost of 30 miles of freeway through Virgin farmland, versus 15 or 20 miles of freeway through wealthy enclaves which will eventually be turned into expensive homes. The cost could be comparable.

It's too bad that there isn't a good way to connect to 315. That would be perfect. It's too bad nobody had the foresight to think of that. Good for Powell though. I bet they're glad not to have a freeway running through there.
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silverback1065

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #181 on: October 07, 2021, 08:33:07 AM »

I do agree that there should be a full freeway connection between Columbus and Toledo (and by extension, to Detroit and the rest of Michigan). A short freeway connecting US 23 to I-71 north of Delaware or a freeway connecting US 23 to US 33 north and parallel to US 42 would both work as would upgrading US 68 to freeway between Findlay and Bellefontaine.
AFAIK, ODOT is studying both alternatives to the west and east of US 23 for a better connection between I-270 and Waldo, with the western routing heading towards US 33, and the eastern routing towards I-71.

Best option: US-23 upgrade.

Not a bad option: US-33 to either Ohio-235 or US-68 > and then to US-30/I-75.

Ohio should consider using the same method Texas and Florida use for their highways. Just jam a freeway through there and build frontage roads for access to the existing businesses.

even if they did do that, they already made that impossible at 270 they recently rebuilt that area with a weird tunnel.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #182 on: October 07, 2021, 10:26:04 AM »


even if they did do that, they already made that impossible at 270 they recently rebuilt that area with a weird tunnel.

Yeah, 23 is gone. They're going to have to reroute it somewhere around Delaware to get to i-71. I hope they are smarter with the numbering system. Since US 23 is such an important route, maybe enough people will complain so that it gets a single number.

If it doesn't get an interstate number, they should simply call it OH 15 multiplexed with US 23 until it splits off in Delaware. Or maybe they can resurrect OH 1.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 10:29:37 AM by TempoNick »
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #183 on: October 07, 2021, 10:36:25 AM »

Columbus to Chicago is covered by I-65/70.

I-65 between Indianapolis and Chicago can be very congested. Likewise, I-80 / I-90. An alternate route into Chicagoland takes some traffic and pressure away from those roadways. Besides, you guys say that Indiana is upgrading US 30.

Chicago is the unofficial capital of the Midwest and it needs a good access to its provincial capitals.
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silverback1065

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #184 on: October 07, 2021, 11:10:30 AM »

Columbus to Chicago is covered by I-65/70.

I-65 between Indianapolis and Chicago can be very congested. Likewise, I-80 / I-90. An alternate route into Chicagoland takes some traffic and pressure away from those roadways. Besides, you guys say that Indiana is upgrading US 30.

Chicago is the unofficial capital of the Midwest and it needs a good access to its provincial capitals.

everyone outside of chicago in the mid west would beg to differ with that designation  :-D
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #185 on: October 07, 2021, 12:08:29 PM »

For Columbus-Chicago, I suggested an expressway US 33/US 30 corridor via Fort Wayne in fictional before, as most of the road is already 4 laned, except for US 33 between Decatur and St Marys, and between Wapokoneta and Bellefontaine. Bypasses around towns will be necessary, especially around Russels Point:


But in general, for such a centrally located large city in the state, Columbus's freeway connections are a disappointment, compared to peer cities like Indianapolis, which have interstates radiating out of the city in 7 directions (8 in the near future), as well as an expressway heading due north. Columbus have 4 interstates radiating out of the metro area, 2 traffic light infested 4 lane expressways US 23  heading towards pretty important points on both ends, a second freeway complimenting I-70 going due east, 2 freeway segments that dead end in Athens and Bellefontaine (imo, the 4 lane section of US 33 southeast of Cbus should really continue all the way to I-77, if nothing is to be done with improving US 23 on the US 23/35 routing to Charleston WV).

This fantasy map makes no sense because of the 15 mile jog to the west taken by I-75. It makes no sense to go 15 miles west (going southbound) to pick up US-33 just to go 15 miles east again. Likewise, nobody northbound is going to take it into Columbus either because you effectively have to go north and backtrack to go south into Columbus.

Virtually no population west of there, so it doesn't make sense into Fort Wayne, either. What makes most sense is to take it north from Marysville or Indian Lake into Findlay/Lima/US-30. (Then US-30 can become US-30/US-33 to Fort Wayne - give the old route some other number.) I personally like US-68 because I could envision it going all the way to Springfield and/or I-675.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 12:12:35 PM by TempoNick »
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SkyPesos

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #186 on: October 07, 2021, 12:13:36 PM »

For Columbus-Chicago, I suggested an expressway US 33/US 30 corridor via Fort Wayne in fictional before, as most of the road is already 4 laned, except for US 33 between Decatur and St Marys, and between Wapokoneta and Bellefontaine. Bypasses around towns will be necessary, especially around Russels Point:


But in general, for such a centrally located large city in the state, Columbus's freeway connections are a disappointment, compared to peer cities like Indianapolis, which have interstates radiating out of the city in 7 directions (8 in the near future), as well as an expressway heading due north. Columbus have 4 interstates radiating out of the metro area, 2 traffic light infested 4 lane expressways US 23  heading towards pretty important points on both ends, a second freeway complimenting I-70 going due east, 2 freeway segments that dead end in Athens and Bellefontaine (imo, the 4 lane section of US 33 southeast of Cbus should really continue all the way to I-77, if nothing is to be done with improving US 23 on the US 23/35 routing to Charleston WV).

This fantasy map makes no sense because of the 15 mile jog to the west taken by I-75. It makes no sense to go 15 miles west (going southbound) to pick up US-33 just to go 15 miles east again. Likewise, nobody northbound is going to take it into Columbus either because you effectively have to go north and backtrack to go south into Columbus.
Go 15 miles east on I-75 to where? I was talking about a routing to Ft Wayne and Chicago, not Toledo. Another possibility is to connect US 33 to US 30 at around Lima for Ft Wayne bound traffic. Your OH 235/117 idea works too. Or maybe a western bypass around Lima between I-75 and US 30, which would use part of I-75 to connect to US 33 down south.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 12:29:18 PM by SkyPesos »
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #187 on: October 07, 2021, 12:27:08 PM »


Go 15 miles east on I-75 to where? I was talking about a routing to Ft Wayne and Chicago, not Toledo. Another possibility is to connect US 33 to US 30 at around Lima for Ft Wayne bound traffic. Your OH 235/117 idea works too.

Yes, it technically works to Fort Wayne and Chicago, but that 15 miles to the west bugs me. To Fort Wayne, going through Lima is the best way, IMO. But if you do that, then you probably have to use US-23 to and from Columbus. Confusing.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #188 on: October 07, 2021, 04:20:20 PM »

I was just playing around with Google Maps this afternoon. Do you know how much to the west I-75 swings between Findlay and Wapak (as the crow flies)? 26 Miles!

That means you have up to an extra 52 miles to drive if you use US-33 from I-75 to get to Columbus. Yikes! That's a lot!

So, here are the options I propose, in order of preference.

1. US-23 upgrade Waldo thru Kilbourne - requires 13 miles of freeway without having to go too far east. This is actually quite reasonable.

2. US-23 upgrade Waldo to Marengo - also requires 13 miles of freeway, 10 miles of which are wasted because you have to go 5 miles too far east.

3. US 33 upgrade thru Ada - US-33 becomes a far more useful "inter-state" route if it's continued up through Ada, 32 miles of freeway required. Depending on traffic patterns, it could also take pressure off of I-71 with US-23 accessing the east side of Columbus and US-33 giving access to Dublin and the west side.

(Remember, this is also about distribution and there is tons of it on the west side of Columbus.)

4. US-68 upgrade from Findlay to Bellefontaine - requires 33 miles of freeway but swings to the west roughly 5 miles following the existing right-of-way. But it makes a nice connection between Findlay and Springfield in the long run. Lots of distribution in West Jefferson. perhaps you need something to serve those facilities?

5. Findlay to Marysville - requires 55 miles of freeway from Findlay to Marysville. (Straight-line calculation)


A US-23 upgrade still seems to be the best option.




« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 09:55:09 PM by TempoNick »
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Rothman

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #189 on: October 10, 2021, 12:16:52 AM »

...and this thread has become completely fictional.
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SkyPesos

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #190 on: October 10, 2021, 12:27:00 AM »

...and this thread has become completely fictional.
A high-quality connection between US 23 in Waldo to I-71 in the east or to US 33 in the west is being studied by ODOT currently. Though nothing have been released about where and how the connections will be.

Actually, the number "I-73" for Ohio and Michigan is fictional at this point as well.
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seicer

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #191 on: October 10, 2021, 12:10:18 PM »

And West Virginia since it's only being planned and built as a corridor-style highway, with interchanges at major intersections and intersections elsewhere.

TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #192 on: October 11, 2021, 09:42:53 AM »


Actually, the number "I-73" for Ohio and Michigan is fictional at this point as well.

You never know. If we ever get a governor who's a road geek, I-73 could be back in the picture.
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Strider

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #193 on: October 11, 2021, 01:05:48 PM »

And West Virginia since it's only being planned and built as a corridor-style highway, with interchanges at major intersections and intersections elsewhere.

The section in West Virginia is still designated as a Future I-73/I-74 route, so it isn't fictional yet.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #194 on: October 11, 2021, 07:02:04 PM »

And West Virginia since it's only being planned and built as a corridor-style highway, with interchanges at major intersections and intersections elsewhere.

The section in West Virginia is still designated as a Future I-73/I-74 route, so it isn't fictional yet.

And even if they don't upgrade it in the near future, it wouldn't be the first time a freeway was built with disconnected segments. There's no law that says everything has to be contiguous.
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thspfc

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #195 on: October 11, 2021, 07:06:21 PM »

...and this thread has become completely fictional.
What did you expect from a Midwest board thread that has I-73 in the title?
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Rothman

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #196 on: October 11, 2021, 08:53:38 PM »

...and this thread has become completely fictional.
What did you expect from a Midwest board thread that has I-73 in the title?

Right.  Move it to Fictional.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #197 on: October 11, 2021, 11:22:55 PM »

Except the concept for I-73 in Ohio is not fictional... it may be dead, but it stems from an official proposal and discussion.

And things relevant to the I-73 corridor still are around... such as the Columbus to Toledo corridor.
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TempoNick

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #198 on: October 13, 2021, 11:13:48 AM »

Well, I don't know what their traffic counts or their metrics are, all I know is that a that free-flowing connection between Columbus, Findlay, Toledo, Fort Wayne and Michigan is long overdue. US-23 is busy enough at peak times that it deserves to be turned into freeway.

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skluth

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Re: I-73 updates?
« Reply #199 on: October 14, 2021, 02:24:28 PM »


Actually, the number "I-73" for Ohio and Michigan is fictional at this point as well.

You never know. If we ever get a governor who's a road geek, I-73 could be back in the picture.

A road geek guv could as easily loathe the entire I-73/I-74 concept much like many road geeks can't stand I-99.
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