Minnesota Notes

[Molandfreak]

I would bet the rest of TH 371 would be four-laned before anything else on US 2. There isn't a pressing need for it, but the locals seem to want that far more.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I would bet the rest of TH 371 would be four-laned before anything else on US 2. There isn't a pressing need for it, but the locals seem to want that far more.

Yeah, after the Pequot Lakes to Pine River section is done, I can't really see anything else on 371 being expanded.

[KelleyCook]

I suspect this has been asked here before, but searching didn't help.  Today I drove US 2 all the way from Grand Forks to Iron River, WI.  Are there plans to make the highway 4 lane all the way through Northern Minnesota. It's 4 lane for a majority of it, but there are obviously gaps.

Last year, I did US-2 from Sandpoint, ID to the Mackinac Bridge -- except for the 67 miles it goes south of Glacier NP as we went on the loony Going to Sun Road.

US-2 is a very peaceful road, most of it doesn't need to be four laned.

[Molandfreak]

And the newest Minnesota business route may be... a Blue Earth I-90 business spur! I have been in contact with city staff for an unrelated matter since my Masters capstone is going to involve a housing study there. I seized the opportunity to discuss a road-related proposal with staff, too. The spur as I proposed it would have a loop-like quality, running on US 169 into town, then west on 7th street, and north on Main Street to end at Fairgrounds Road. "To I-90" signs would be installed to complete the connection from the end of the spur via fairgrounds and US 169 north. The navigational benefit of this spur is to highlight both of Blue Earth's business districts—on Main Street and Grove Street. The mayor liked the idea.

[rhen_var]

Speaking of Blue Earth, any idea why there's a random diamond interchange between Main Street and Leland Parkway?  I've always wondered about that.

[Molandfreak]

Speaking of Blue Earth, any idea why there's a random diamond interchange between Main Street and Leland Parkway?  I've always wondered about that.

It has most likely been there since Leland was US 16. I don't know why the county hasn't bothered to downgrade it to an intersection. The bridge doesn't look period-specific, so they must have opted for a replace-in-kind solution at some point.

[froggie]

Moland's right...Faribault County replaced the bridge in 2005.  The original bridge and interchange dated to 1936, when Main St was US 169 and US 16 was relocated out of downtown Blue Earth.

Fun roadgeek fact about Blue Earth:  the only two traffic signals in Faribault County were along US 169, at East 7th St and Fairgrounds Rd.  Both have since been replaced by roundabouts.  There's also a roundabout on 169 at Leland Pkwy, but that intersection never had a traffic signal.

[Molandfreak]

Moland's right...Faribault County replaced the bridge in 2005.  The original bridge and interchange dated to 1936, when Main St was US 169 and US 16 was relocated out of downtown Blue Earth.

Fun roadgeek fact about Blue Earth:  the only two traffic signals in Faribault County were along US 169, at East 7th St and Fairgrounds Rd.  Both have since been replaced by roundabouts.  There's also a roundabout on 169 at Leland Pkwy, but that intersection never had a traffic signal.

I figured you'd have more historical knowledge. Was a conversion to an intersection studied when the county rebuilt the bridge in 2005? There must be a topographical reason why it wasn't done.

[froggie]

I figured you'd have more historical knowledge. Was a conversion to an intersection studied when the county rebuilt the bridge in 2005? There must be a topographical reason why it wasn't done.

Not sure.  My guess is that an in-kind bridge replacement was easier to do, both from a documentation and a funding source standpoint, than converting to at-grade.

[JREwing78]

I figured you'd have more historical knowledge. Was a conversion to an intersection studied when the county rebuilt the bridge in 2005? There must be a topographical reason why it wasn't done.

Not sure.  My guess is that an in-kind bridge replacement was easier to do, both from a documentation and a funding source standpoint, than converting to at-grade.

Makes sense. By the time you've removed the bridge and brought Leland Pkwy up to grade, it would be more expensive than the bridge replacement. There's also considerable truck traffic on Leland that won't have to deal with a roundabout or stoplight at Main St.

[Molandfreak]

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/beltline-loop-project-proposed-to-ease-st-cloud-traffic/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KSTP-TV&fbclid=IwY2xjawGAFdtleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHYkzao9tbGVJl9cFod33nojA1kk_rOJa2BI9ZfCzVc83cWT0N1NOtCHeVQ_aem__YARDC7Jwu5IaIIN1ME8Zw

A Saint Cloud beltline has been proposed. Looks like a good idea, but the first part studied was the southwest corridor—IMO where it's least needed.

[Rothman]

I would expect opposition to that idea.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Some of the outer corridor (like the NE quadrant in Benton County) seems unneeded to me. The NW corridor would allow traffic coming east on 94 to get to Sauk Rapids/Sartell without having to go into downtown, which could be nice.

I think a better plan would be rerouting TH 23 onto roughly what would be the south side of the beltline route to get it out of downtown St. Cloud. I feel like that would solve a large amount of the issues the beltline proposal seeks to do in terms of easing congestion going across the city. Driving E/W across it sucks to be sure, but with the way the city is laid out and 94/10 both staying well clear, most of that traffic is already local, and not sure how the beltline would get someone from, say, a concert at the ampitheater in Waite Park to SCSU more efficiently.

[froggie]

A St. Cloud Beltline is not a new idea, though it seems the media is only now picking up on it (or it was a slow news day at KSTP).  I have maps from over a decade ago showing planning on segments of it (including the aforementioned NE quadrant).  The new-ish 33rd St interchange on Hwy 15 is part of the Beltline concept, as is the proposal to extend 33rd across the river to Hwy 10 (likely near or south of CSAH 3).

Here's the MPO page on the Beltline.  One of the studies they link to is from over 20 years ago.  The recent river bridge study they link to as a concept map from 1993.

[midwesternroadguy]

Some of the outer corridor (like the NE quadrant in Benton County) seems unneeded to me. The NW corridor would allow traffic coming east on 94 to get to Sauk Rapids/Sartell without having to go into downtown, which could be nice.

I think a better plan would be rerouting TH 23 onto roughly what would be the south side of the beltline route to get it out of downtown St. Cloud. I feel like that would solve a large amount of the issues the beltline proposal seeks to do in terms of easing congestion going across the city. Driving E/W across it sucks to be sure, but with the way the city is laid out and 94/10 both staying well clear, most of that traffic is already local, and not sure how the beltline would get someone from, say, a concert at the ampitheater in Waite Park to SCSU more efficiently.

Another mediocre study done by SRF.  I'm not sure how this addresses core traffic issues in St. Cloud when the corridor so closely parallels I-94.  I think the APO needs to focus on implementing the TH 15 improvements through the Crossroads area. The Beltline seems to be more of a means to increase access for development versus providing metropolitan traffic relief.

Why did SRF have two alignments going through the newly-expanded Quarry Park and SNA?  Sorry, that's also bad planning. 

[froggie]

Getting fictional here, but I've fleshed out the idea of building a southeastern St. Cloud bypass for MN 23 instead of either the "beltline bridge" proposal or the long-standing (and long-unfunded) plan for a 94/10 connector between Clearwater and Clear Lake.

[Molandfreak]

Anyone know the history of Cedar Avenue in Owatonna? It looks like it may line up directly with the Cedar Avenue in Dakota County, but is this just a coincidence?

[bschultzy]

Anyone know the history of Cedar Avenue in Owatonna? It looks like it may line up directly with the Cedar Avenue in Dakota County, but is this just a coincidence?

I wouldn't be surprised if the name was intentional, but it appears on MHAPO that there was never one continuous road bearing that name. Curiously enough, there's a St. Paul Rd. a 1/2mi east of Cedar Ave in Owatonna that only makes it a couple miles north of town, and doesn't appear to have ever been a road that went directly to St. Paul.

[texaskdog]

Getting fictional here, but I've fleshed out the idea of building a southeastern St. Cloud bypass for MN 23 instead of either the "beltline bridge" proposal or the long-standing (and long-unfunded) plan for a 94/10 connector between Clearwater and Clear Lake.

What's up with the 4 major roads in Saint Cloud missing each other by a block?  I haven't been up there in 30 years but you'd think they could either line them up, merge them up, build a bypass...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/St+Cloud,+MN/@45.5530851,-94.2504915,13.25z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x52b48aa982cb02f5:0x55b4e60ed08b7f44!8m2!3d45.5579451!4d-94.1632404!16zL20vMDEzZjl2?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

You could easily make a MN 23 bypass that runs along 94 then north of the airport, and that could also serve as the connector instead of building one in Clear Lake/Clearwater

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I saw a post elsewhere online stating TH 36 is now 60 MPH inside the beltway. I figured that wouldn't happen unless/until the Century interchange got built to finish the freeway. Good to hear that didn't end up stopping it from happening sooner.

[The Ghostbuster]

Are there any plans to convert any additional intersections along TH 36 to interchanges, grade-separations, or cul-de-sacs, other than the one planned at Lake Elmo Ave N.?

[bschultzy]

Getting fictional here, but I've fleshed out the idea of building a southeastern St. Cloud bypass for MN 23 instead of either the "beltline bridge" proposal or the long-standing (and long-unfunded) plan for a 94/10 connector between Clearwater and Clear Lake.

What's up with the 4 major roads in Saint Cloud missing each other by a block?  I haven't been up there in 30 years but you'd think they could either line them up, merge them up, build a bypass...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/St+Cloud,+MN/@45.5530851,-94.2504915,13.25z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x52b48aa982cb02f5:0x55b4e60ed08b7f44!8m2!3d45.5579451!4d-94.1632404!16zL20vMDEzZjl2?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

You could easily make a MN 23 bypass that runs along 94 then north of the airport, and that could also serve as the connector instead of building one in Clear Lake/Clearwater

It used to be simpler when STC was a small town but I have no idea why they redesigned everything as they did.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Are there any plans to convert any additional intersections along TH 36 to interchanges, grade-separations, or cul-de-sacs, other than the one planned at Lake Elmo Ave N.?

Just the one at Century Avenue, which Washington County seems far more interested in at this point than MnDOT is..

The minor at-grades between 694 and Stillwater's west side probably don't draw enough traffic to justify separations.

[Molandfreak]

What's happening with the dairy queen at Century when the interchange is built?

[froggie]

What's happening with the dairy queen at Century when the interchange is built?

My guess, based on what few renderings I've been able to locate, is that the DQ will be bought out for the ROW.