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Author Topic: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)  (Read 33311 times)

KEK Inc.

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2010, 08:24:07 PM »

They had to keep it as a drawbridge because they didn't have the space to make it even higher because of interchanges that were too close.  But at least now that it's at least a little bit higher, they don't have to open it as much as they had to open the old bridge.
Isn't there a similar problem with the Columbia River crossing?  The Jantzen Beach exit and SR-14 are practically at the end of each span.  I know for the Columbia River crossing, judging by the concept images, they plan to have the elevation change on the span as it's over the river.

And can't they alter the intersections and still have a grade-separated bridge over the Potomac?[/font]
 
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xonhulu

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2010, 11:44:29 PM »

Isn't there a similar problem with the Columbia River crossing?  The Jantzen Beach exit and SR-14 are practically at the end of each span.  I know for the Columbia River crossing, judging by the concept images, they plan to have the elevation change on the span as it's over the river.

I think the shipping channel is to the north side of the river, where the lift spans are currently, so the freeway will probably still be at ground level at Jantzen Beach.  In Vancouver, most designs I've seen have I-5 crossing over SR-14 with the ramps all to the north elevating to the bridge approaches.
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KEK Inc.

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2010, 12:46:42 AM »

Isn't there a similar problem with the Columbia River crossing?  The Jantzen Beach exit and SR-14 are practically at the end of each span.  I know for the Columbia River crossing, judging by the concept images, they plan to have the elevation change on the span as it's over the river.

I think the shipping channel is to the north side of the river, where the lift spans are currently, so the freeway will probably still be at ground level at Jantzen Beach.  In Vancouver, most designs I've seen have I-5 crossing over SR-14 with the ramps all to the north elevating to the bridge approaches.
They could still dredge a channel through the middle of the river.  The middle of the river is pretty deep as well.  Any approach of this project is going to be massively expensive.  I hate to see some of the businesses like the Red Lion at the Quay go away, but I guess it's inevitable. 
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xonhulu

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2010, 02:07:53 AM »

They could still dredge a channel through the middle of the river.  The middle of the river is pretty deep as well.  Any approach of this project is going to be massively expensive.  I hate to see some of the businesses like the Red Lion at the Quay go away, but I guess it's inevitable.

There used to be 3 Red Lions flanking the Interstate Bridge.  Is that still the case?

I wouldn't shed a tear for any of those businesses.  I actually think they're eyesores on the river bank.  Parks would be far better in those locations, and I hope that is a side effect of this project.
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KEK Inc.

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2010, 02:21:52 AM »

They could still dredge a channel through the middle of the river.  The middle of the river is pretty deep as well.  Any approach of this project is going to be massively expensive.  I hate to see some of the businesses like the Red Lion at the Quay go away, but I guess it's inevitable.

There used to be 3 Red Lions flanking the Interstate Bridge.  Is that still the case?

I wouldn't shed a tear for any of those businesses.  I actually think they're eyesores on the river bank.  Parks would be far better in those locations, and I hope that is a side effect of this project.
There's only two now.  The one on the western side was closed down quite a while ago, but nothing has happened to it.  The one on the Vancouver side has a cool restaurant with an awesome view of the bridge.  I'm not a big fan of Joe's Crap Crab Shack, either.  :P 

The city of Vancouver just bought the Boise plant and tore down the complex.  I think they're planning to build a park there, but I'm not sure how they're going to fund it now.
 
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Bruce

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2021, 12:52:05 AM »

Perhaps we should revive this thread to keep together all of the new Columbia River talk.

For context: The Interstate Bridge Replacement was rebooted in 2018 with a goal of starting construction around 2025 to avoid repaying the planning money to the feds.

The current holdup is about funding from the Clark County side (but they don't really have much power in this): https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/22/clark-county-leaders-object-prospect-tolls-i5-bridge-replacement/

Sub-Urbanite

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2021, 02:28:11 PM »

The new plan faces the same challenges as the old plan. Maybe even worse challenges.

  • The anti-toll, anti-transit contingent in Vancouver is a little bit more marginalized by the last round, but the potential for backlash is still there.
  • The anti-bridge contingent in Vancouver is still pushing for new bridges to Oregon, which are still non-starters (because nobody on the Oregon side wants to build a new bridge from Camas to Troutdale and because nothing downstream of Vancouver makes sense from a development perspective
  • The anti-bridge contingent in Portland is still active, because they don't want any new bridge that has more than 3 lanes in each direction, despite the safety issues created by the SR 14 interchange
  • We might be closer to a breakthrough on transit, with Vancouver's BRT program working pretty well, but I think the light rail folks in Oregon are still pretty adamant that it's got to be included in the new project. (Also, the federal light rail match pays for a huge portion of the new bridge itself).
  • And the light rail needs have changed on the Vancouver side of the river. The Vancouver waterfront has blown up in the last couple of years, but the light rail stop is a half-mile-plus away.
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vdeane

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2021, 08:48:31 PM »

The anti-bridge contingent in Vancouver is still pushing for new bridges
I understand what you're saying, but I still gotta ask... is Vancouver in Alanland?
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Bruce

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2021, 01:28:13 AM »

There's an open house going on now with some basic options for the Interstate Bridge replacement: https://www.interstatebridge.org/get-involved-folder/getting-to-the-ibr-solution/

The river crossing options come in three flavors, and there are additional maps for how connections to and from the bridge would be designed.



And the descriptions of the crossing options:

Quote
The 2013 LPA Option has two bridges and a curved alignment, with highway lanes on the top level and dedicated transit guideway and a shared-use path on the bottom level.

Technical considerations: This option provides a narrowed footprint, with the transit and shared-use path under the highway (in comparison with all modes on one level). The curved alignment connects the new bridge to the existing North Portland Harbor bridge and the existing highway corridor in Vancouver.

The Stacked Highway Option consolidates all elements into one bridge, with southbound highway lanes on top of northbound highway lanes. Transit and the shared-use path would be on the lower level on each side of the bridge.

Technical considerations: This one-bridge solution would have a smaller footprint over the river and reduce the number of foundations in the water compared to the other options, thus minimizing impacts to the natural environment and surrounding areas.



The Straight Alignment Option removes the curve as much as possible while maintaining the two bridge/two-level highway over the transit/shared-use path.

Technical considerations: The straight alignment is west of the Interstate 5 (I-5) corridor on Hayden Island. This alignment makes the likely North Portland Harbor Bridge replacement less complex. A straight alignment is less complex to construct than a curving structure.



Bruce

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2021, 02:44:52 AM »

Also a quick realization: If the current bridges are tolled ahead of the replacement project (as was the case for WA 520), then the Interstate Bridge will have been tolled three times in its history: from opening in 1917 to 1928, from the second span's opening in 1952 to 1966, and then whatever happens for the replacement.

wdcrft63

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2021, 10:12:12 PM »

Isn't there a similar problem with the Columbia River crossing?  The Jantzen Beach exit and SR-14 are practically at the end of each span.  I know for the Columbia River crossing, judging by the concept images, they plan to have the elevation change on the span as it's over the river.

I think the shipping channel is to the north side of the river, where the lift spans are currently, so the freeway will probably still be at ground level at Jantzen Beach.  In Vancouver, most designs I've seen have I-5 crossing over SR-14 with the ramps all to the north elevating to the bridge approaches.
They could still dredge a channel through the middle of the river.  The middle of the river is pretty deep as well.  Any approach of this project is going to be massively expensive.  I hate to see some of the businesses like the Red Lion at the Quay go away, but I guess it's inevitable.
Moving the main channel is probably a non-starter because just downstream is a railroad bridge with a bascule span just off the north bank. Moving the main channel would also require a new railroad bridge to avoid a severe S-turn in the channel.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2021, 04:34:46 PM »

No tolls. I will vocally send in my displeasure with any plan that proposes tolls. Washington and Oregon are not poor states.
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Bruce

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2021, 06:40:39 PM »

No tolls. I will vocally send in my displeasure with any plan that proposes tolls. Washington and Oregon are not poor states.

Feel free to lobby your representatives on Capitol Hill to fully fund the replacement from their coffers, then.

At least for Washington, the bridge project would take up too much out of the state transportation package, which is needed to fund quite a few major projects elsewhere. Tolling the direct users is fairer.

Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2021, 07:38:45 PM »

^^^ wrong
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Bruce

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2021, 08:05:43 PM »

^^^ wrong

The 2020 Conceptual Financial Plan estimates that the replacement will cost between $3.2 and 4.8 billion dollars with inflation. The plan assumes up to $930 million in federal funding and up to $1.3 billion in toll revenue, with up to $300 million in other funds.

So even with the tolls, there's still $2 billion that needs to be raised by each state. Washington's share will presumably be half, which would be equivalent to several of the big ticket items in the 2015 package. A new package would have to be approved for the IBR and some of the other major unfunded projects left in the Seattle area, such as the US 2 reconstruction in Everett and the looming threat of having to rebuild I-5 in Seattle.

Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2021, 08:31:53 PM »

The 2020 Conceptual Financial Plan estimates that the replacement will cost between $3.2 and 4.8 billion dollars with inflation. The plan assumes up to $930 million in federal funding and up to $1.3 billion in toll revenue, with up to $300 million in other funds.

So even with the tolls, there's still $2 billion that needs to be raised by each state. Washington's share will presumably be half, which would be equivalent to several of the big ticket items in the 2015 package. A new package would have to be approved for the IBR and some of the other major unfunded projects left in the Seattle area, such as the US 2 reconstruction in Everett and the looming threat of having to rebuild I-5 in Seattle.
The money can be found. Tolling isnít the only way. Iím not completely opposed to tolling this bridge at least if they donít toll 205 Iíll be more open to this but if a rolling component is added it should be short term until the bridge is paid off and public funds apart should be used to reduce the debt.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 08:51:53 PM by Plutonic Panda »
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pderocco

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2021, 03:00:15 AM »

The river crossing options come in three flavors, and there are additional maps for how connections to and from the bridge would be designed.



I'm having trouble imagining how this would be sequenced. Would they build a new bridge next to the existing one? The drawings don't seem to show a completely new adjacent alignment. Or would they build, say, the new SB side W of the existing bridge, temporarily run all the traffic on it with a zipper lane in the middle, then tear down the existing bridge and build the new NB side in its place? Or would they try to squeeze all the traffic into the east side, perhaps building a temporary bridge with another lane or two like the emergency bridges the Army Corps of Engineers builds, then tear down the old west side and build the new west side, then route all the traffic onto that with a zipper lane in the middle, and finally tear down the old east side and temporary bridge and build the new east side? The last of these would at least have the new bridge occupy the same basic alignment as the existing bridge.
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2021, 04:57:47 AM »

The I-5 and WA 14 interchange in the first two options are the same layout as it currently is, and the Straight Alignment follows the current bridge alignment. The interchange on Hayden Island is different in all three options, which makes it slightly harder to determine how it compares to what's there now.
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stevashe

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2021, 02:09:30 PM »

I'm having trouble imagining how this would be sequenced. Would they build a new bridge next to the existing one? The drawings don't seem to show a completely new adjacent alignment. Or would they build, say, the new SB side W of the existing bridge, temporarily run all the traffic on it with a zipper lane in the middle, then tear down the existing bridge and build the new NB side in its place? Or would they try to squeeze all the traffic into the east side, perhaps building a temporary bridge with another lane or two like the emergency bridges the Army Corps of Engineers builds, then tear down the old west side and build the new west side, then route all the traffic onto that with a zipper lane in the middle, and finally tear down the old east side and temporary bridge and build the new east side? The last of these would at least have the new bridge occupy the same basic alignment as the existing bridge.

They would likely go with the second option: "build, say, the new SB side W of the existing bridge, temporarily run all the traffic on it with a zipper lane in the middle, then tear down the existing bridge and build the new NB side in its place".

However, since the new bridge is showing shoulders, there should be plenty of room to keep the existing 3 lanes per direction without a zipper lane, similar to what has been done on the I-5 Puyallup River bridge in Tacoma.
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kkt

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2021, 03:09:37 AM »

The anti-bridge contingent in Vancouver is still pushing for new bridges
I understand what you're saying, but I still gotta ask... is Vancouver in Alanland?

Yes, I think it is :)
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Sub-Urbanite

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2021, 12:11:38 PM »

Great report last night on the maintenance of the existing bridge:

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ErmineNotyours

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2021, 10:14:19 PM »

Great report last night on the maintenance of the existing bridge:


It's funny to see an ODOT employee standing in Washington State.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2021, 02:31:29 PM »

Massive infrastructure passed providing billions for each state. Thereís your money to add on to the states to build without tolls.
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Bickendan

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2021, 09:09:03 PM »

Massive infrastructure passed providing billions for each state. Thereís your money to add on to the states to build without tolls.
Hopefully, and hopefully will apply to the Abernethy Bridge as well.
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kkt

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Re: I-5 Columbia River Crossing (OR/WA)
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2021, 09:37:26 PM »

So, does the infrastructure law let each state decide what to fund, or is it up to the DOT?
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