Mackinac Bridge congestion

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

You aren't getting close to anything here. The speed limit is 45 mph on the bridge, I drive 45 mph. How would I be the reason for any congestion?

Dear lord, I said "heart of the opposition", not "heart of the congestion".  Are you viewing those of us who are pro-interoperability (with E-ZPass and/or anything else) as a monolith?

That said, out east, driving exactly the speed limit is considered slow.  I usually drive 5-7 over and still get passed like I'm standing still on any multi-lane bridge with a speed limit in that range.

Well in northern Michigan driving exactly the speed limit is not considered slow. In areas where at warrants a higher speed I do go a little faster but not on the Mackinac Bridge.

I frequently get passed like I'm standing still when I go 70 on M-28 and US 2. People do obey the limit on the Mac, though.

I do about 75 when I'm on 2 or 28.

[Molandfreak]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

You aren't getting close to anything here. The speed limit is 45 mph on the bridge, I drive 45 mph. How would I be the reason for any congestion?

Dear lord, I said "heart of the opposition", not "heart of the congestion".  Are you viewing those of us who are pro-interoperability (with E-ZPass and/or anything else) as a monolith?

That said, out east, driving exactly the speed limit is considered slow.  I usually drive 5-7 over and still get passed like I'm standing still on any multi-lane bridge with a speed limit in that range.

Well in northern Michigan driving exactly the speed limit is not considered slow. In areas where at warrants a higher speed I do go a little faster but not on the Mackinac Bridge.

I frequently get passed like I'm standing still when I go 70 on M-28 and US 2. People do obey the limit on the Mac, though.

I do about 75 when I'm on 2 or 28.

So 65 is slow then?

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

You aren't getting close to anything here. The speed limit is 45 mph on the bridge, I drive 45 mph. How would I be the reason for any congestion?

Dear lord, I said "heart of the opposition", not "heart of the congestion".  Are you viewing those of us who are pro-interoperability (with E-ZPass and/or anything else) as a monolith?

That said, out east, driving exactly the speed limit is considered slow.  I usually drive 5-7 over and still get passed like I'm standing still on any multi-lane bridge with a speed limit in that range.

Well in northern Michigan driving exactly the speed limit is not considered slow. In areas where at warrants a higher speed I do go a little faster but not on the Mackinac Bridge.

I frequently get passed like I'm standing still when I go 70 on M-28 and US 2. People do obey the limit on the Mac, though.

I do about 75 when I'm on 2 or 28.

So 65 is slow then?

No I wouldn't say it's slow it's just the speed limit, it seems like the speed limit is just a suggestion in Michigan. It's probably a lot of travelers that drive like that, I don't think locals in that area drive that fast. If I'm alone on a highway I'll generally do the speed limit but if I'm in traffic or have someone to follow I'll go with the flow.

[JREwing78]

Now, what the out-of-staters don't get. AET/ETC will not eliminate congestion at the bridge. Full stop. Much of this year's congestion is based on construction bottlenecks. You have a four-lane bridge that's effectively a two-lane bridge much of the time. Prime tourist traffic season is prime construction season. There's almost always a full or partial lane closed in each direction. When the trucks have a 20 mph speed limit and a lane is closed, the bridge backs up some. That is a fact of life. That's not even counting the times when they have to reduce speed limits or even implement escorts due to high winds. Sometimes, they even have to close the bridge completely due to winds or other weather.

Not mentioned: the Bridge Walk on Labor Day, which is massively popular and completely shuts down the bridge for much of the day, then is jammed with Bridge Walkers trying to leave. So yes, there are other sources of congestion.

Also true is that on Fridays and Sundays on at least some summer weekends, with no construction taking place on or near the bridge, there's simply an overwhelming traffic demand, and the toll booths are the choke point.

The MBA has studied expanding MacPass and joining E-ZPass. For the authority, the economics don't seem to work for them. All of the armchair pontificating here will not replace that determination. They know the specifics on why it would cost too much for them to implement absent an actual requirement to do so. I'm sure that they continue to evaluate the situation, and if things change, they will make a change.

This. It works only as long as there's an open lane for transponder holders to pass through (when it backs up enough to clog both lanes outside of the toll booth apron, that transponder does nothing). You also need enough of them to actually improve throughput through the toll booths.

The toll takers were waiting for the traffic to clear the lanes to have the next vehicle approach; traffic was not waiting for the person in the booth.

I'm taking this quote slightly out of its context to highlight that it's not the toll takers, but the drivers - many of them in vacation mode and oblivious - that are a main cause of slow throughput through the gates.

Watch how long this transaction takes using a credit card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI8DOIrqjkg

Doesn't seem that long, even with all the time taken to get the receipt.  When my parents were still paying cash on the Thruway, most people we'd be stuck behind in line took long enough that it almost felt like clearing customs.

I just remember Williamsville being a nightmare due to the two rows of toll-takers and no one moving up when they were supposed to, resulting in hoarse toll-takers yelling at people to do so all day and night.

The cash payment is considerably quicker. So are the tap-to-pay schemes elsewhere. Still, it takes longer for the driver to move their vehicle than it takes the payment to process.

So at best, we're moving maybe 3 to 4 cars a minute though each gate. There's at best 5 toll booths that can be open now, with 3 for the opposing direction. So at best, in one direction they can move 20 cars a minute through the booths, or 1200 cars an hour. The other direction is capped at 720 cars per hour.

That *sounds* like it should be enough, but in the video I posted to start this discussion, it clearly wasn't. Again, no construction. Just a long 4th of July holiday weekend.

When my son went to Michigan Tech, a father of an older student told me, "Never ask them how long it took to get home. Because they might tell you."

My personal best Houghton-to-Lansing trip was 7 1/2 hours - and that was with a posted 55 through the U.P. and I-75 and US-127 just having been raised to 70. I kept it down on the Seney Stretch and on US-2, because the State Police were waiting to pounce.

[Flint1979]

This topic actually came up in a Facebook group that I'm in. The group is called Mackinac Bridge Views and a view of a backed up Mackinac Bridge this past Sunday showed up. The backup was believe it or not heading in the NB direction on a Sunday. People that were in that mess on the bridge stated that things moved rather quickly and within 15 minutes the backup was gone.

[Rothman]

This topic actually came up in a Facebook group that I'm in. The group is called Mackinac Bridge Views and a view of a backed up Mackinac Bridge this past Sunday showed up. The backup was believe it or not heading in the NB direction on a Sunday. People that were in that mess on the bridge stated that things moved rather quickly and within 15 minutes the backup was gone.

Right, so congestion isn't an issue.

[Terry Shea]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Pot meet kettle.

[Flint1979]

This topic actually came up in a Facebook group that I'm in. The group is called Mackinac Bridge Views and a view of a backed up Mackinac Bridge this past Sunday showed up. The backup was believe it or not heading in the NB direction on a Sunday. People that were in that mess on the bridge stated that things moved rather quickly and within 15 minutes the backup was gone.

Right, so congestion isn't an issue.

Not when it's cleared in 15 minutes nope can't say it's an on going issue. I-75 is loaded from Detroit to anywhere Up North on summer weekends, the Mackinac Bridge is part of that. So if I-75 backsup due to a lot of northbound traffic and there isn't a toll booth to blame then what's the problem there? I-75 is the Main Street of Michigan, it's a very busy highway so tell me what the solution is there? And if you say add a lane or something like that then it'll be overkill for most of the year and not needed.

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Pot meet kettle.

Yep gotta get a reply from the know it all's I guess.

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Yep and one of the littlest things I would argue over is I hate the term Michiganders to refer to us and prefer Michiganians which has always been the term to refer to us. We don't need a Governor signing anything into law telling us what we're going to be called. The real answer though is we're both.

[Molandfreak]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Yep and one of the littlest things I would argue over is I hate the term Michiganders to refer to us and prefer Michiganians which has always been the term to refer to us. We don't need a Governor signing anything into law telling us what we're going to be called. The real answer though is we're both.

Sorry, Mr. Michiganian!

Please note that I prefer to be called a Maverick rather than a Minnesotan. If Indiana can have their demonym based on a sports team, so can everyone else! 

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Yep and one of the littlest things I would argue over is I hate the term Michiganders to refer to us and prefer Michiganians which has always been the term to refer to us. We don't need a Governor signing anything into law telling us what we're going to be called. The real answer though is we're both.

Sorry, Mr. Michiganian!

Please note that I prefer to be called a Maverick rather than a Minnesotan. If Indiana can have their demonym based on a sports team, so can everyone else! 

I just don't like that a certain governor took it upon himself to decide what we are called and signed a bill for it. We had always been called Michiganians and this bozo comes along and signs some bill making Michigananders the term. Michiganians sounds better anyway.

[Big John]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Yep and one of the littlest things I would argue over is I hate the term Michiganders to refer to us and prefer Michiganians which has always been the term to refer to us. We don't need a Governor signing anything into law telling us what we're going to be called. The real answer though is we're both.

Sorry, Mr. Michiganian!

Please note that I prefer to be called a Maverick rather than a Minnesotan. If Indiana can have their demonym based on a sports team, so can everyone else! 

If that is the case, it would apply to Texas for the Dallas NBA team.

[Molandfreak]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Yep and one of the littlest things I would argue over is I hate the term Michiganders to refer to us and prefer Michiganians which has always been the term to refer to us. We don't need a Governor signing anything into law telling us what we're going to be called. The real answer though is we're both.

Sorry, Mr. Michiganian!

Please note that I prefer to be called a Maverick rather than a Minnesotan. If Indiana can have their demonym based on a sports team, so can everyone else! 

I just don't like that a certain governor took it upon himself to decide what we are called and signed a bill for it. We had always been called Michiganians and this bozo comes along and signs some bill making Michigananders the term. Michiganians sounds better anyway.

Ganders are lovely birds, they eat dandelions from our gardens. You should take it as a compliment!

[CtrlAltDel]

What's good for the Michigoose is good for the Michigander.



^Sorry.

[GaryV]

What's good for the Michigoose is good for the Michigander.

And therein is part of the problem.

I'm old enough to have grown up with Michigander. But then someone saw that "gander" part and thought it was sexist, so the push was on to change it to Michiganian. Which sounded strange to those of us who had grown up with Michigander.

Now I guess the push is back toward Michigander?

Edit: Let's just call ourselves Yoopers and Trolls and be done with it. Oh wait, that congestion thing again ......

[Molandfreak]

Hey, I'd say a good laugh improves your life a lot more than getting stuck in traffic while you're in vacation country!

[bulldog1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Yep and one of the littlest things I would argue over is I hate the term Michiganders to refer to us and prefer Michiganians which has always been the term to refer to us. We don't need a Governor signing anything into law telling us what we're going to be called. The real answer though is we're both.

Sorry, Mr. Michiganian!

Please note that I prefer to be called a Maverick rather than a Minnesotan. If Indiana can have their demonym based on a sports team, so can everyone else! 

I just don't like that a certain governor took it upon himself to decide what we are called and signed a bill for it. We had always been called Michiganians and this bozo comes along and signs some bill making Michigananders the term. Michiganians sounds better anyway.

Ganders are lovely birds, they eat dandelions from our gardens. You should take it as a compliment!

Lewis Cass, one of our early governors, was called the "great Michigander" by Rep. Abraham Lincoln, and it was considered an insult at the time to imply that Cass was a silly as a goose. From that usage, it's been considered a pejorative by many.

In a bill to modernize the Michigan Historical Commission, a reference to "Michiganian" was changed to "Michigander", although the federal government uses the latter as our demonym.

[Flint1979]

According to the Federal Government we are Michiganians. I don't like either Rick Snyder or Gretchen Whitmer and they both use Michigander so I don't.

[Rothman]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

Yep and one of the littlest things I would argue over is I hate the term Michiganders to refer to us and prefer Michiganians which has always been the term to refer to us. We don't need a Governor signing anything into law telling us what we're going to be called. The real answer though is we're both.

How many times are you going to quote my post?