Mackinac Bridge congestion

[rhen_var]

It's Saturday afternoon not a holiday weekend but a Summer weekend nonetheless. 4:00 in the afternoon at the Mackinac Bridge.

Great and imagine if there was all electronic tolling where people didn't have to stop at all. If you can do something to make it just that more efficient why not do it?

So stopping for a whole 5 seconds is going to matter?

Yes

No it's not, my whole point here is that I have driven over that bridge often enough to know that stopping for 5 seconds to pay a toll is not going to hold me up. It seems like all these ideas on this thread are coming from out of staters. My problem here is that you people seem like you don't believe the things I'm saying even though I have vast experience crossing the bridge.

While I don't live in MI anymore, I went to MTU and crossed the bridge dozens of times during college.  That said, I don't see why implementing ORT tolling, even if for just one lane, would hurt.  If you want to pay cash, fine.  But I don't see what's so horrible about giving people the option to drive through without having to stop, using a transponder that they can also already use on pretty much every other toll road.

[Moose]

I don't know. To be honest. I kinda like taking my time over the bridge. And its some of the best 4 bucks you can spend. So what if the toll booths take time, At least with this bridge you don't have bloody customs on both ends. Yeah want delays? Try all the other large bridges in the area (or the tunnel).

For me, I always just nab some 2 dollar bills from the bank when I head this way. Just hand a couple off when I go through. Takes no time most of the time, and most people tend to take their time going over the bridge anyway. Why not.. it is the 3rd longest suspension bridge in the country, and all the rest are on the ocean coasts.

It is totally a landmark structure.. stop and admire it.

When its cold out, you HAVE to take your time...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GQDjCGR7ck

[GaryV]

When its cold out, you HAVE to take your time...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GQDjCGR7ck

Bah. He could see. It was daytime with some breaks in the clouds.

My daughter and I crossed it when it was snowing, about 8 or 9 o'clock at night. All we saw was snowflakes coming at our windshield, and a little bit of bridge deck in front of us. Suddenly we passed the first tower. Then we saw a little bit of the cables coming down at the center of the bridge. But wait - we must have been going down - but it sure looked like we were still going up. All that swirling snow. I understood then why pilots crash their planes when their instruments tell them they should increase their altitude. To them, it looks like they were.

[SEWIGuy]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

I cross the bridge more than a few times a year more like about 60-70 times. I know the bridge pretty well. Why can't you people come to terms that the toll plaza isn't the reason for backups at the Mackinac Bridge?

Beacuse you haven't made a logical argument against a solution that could very well at least lessen the problem.

The problem is that it would cost a lot apparently, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't help.

[Rothman]

I don't know. To be honest. I kinda like taking my time over the bridge. And its some of the best 4 bucks you can spend. So what if the toll booths take time, At least with this bridge you don't have bloody customs on both ends. Yeah want delays? Try all the other large bridges in the area (or the tunnel).

Quite a big area.

[vdeane]

Lol what the hell ever. It's pretty well known that the toll on the Mackinac Bridge is $4, it's not that hard to have $4 available to pay the toll.

Wow.  I think you overestimate how many people regularly use cash these days.  I keep a couple $20 bills on me just in case I can't use a card for something for whatever reason (and some Canadian bills I never used on my Montréal trip that I never bothered moving out of my wallet), but that's it.  I don't think breaking a $20 is the efficiency you had in mind.  What do you expect me to do, go to the bank and ask for four $1 bills (or two $2 bills) just for the bridge toll?  Yeah right.  Or I suppose I could use some of the leftover quarters I have from when I had to deal with coin-operated laundry.  I doubt that would help with efficiency, however.  And to think that many people my age and younger don't even bother carrying cash at all.

At this point you're coming across like an old guy ranting about "kids these days".

[Terry Shea]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

Just to be clear, I'm not entirely convinced that this person is a troll or trolling. But it is very bizarre to me how much energy they are putting to die on this hill. It's just strange to me.

Which is why I thought they were trolling by saying that an entirely voluntary HOT lane system (MNPass) had more of a reason to integrate into E-ZPass than a mandatory toll bridge that is a similar distance away from the E-ZPass network. It's just bizarre and illogical reasoning to me.

And here we go again with the EZPASS crap.

Let me put this very clearly

Interoperable. Tolling. System. That. Works. With. Any. Other. Toll. Pass.

It. Doesn't. Have. To. Be. EZPASS.

I put periods at the end of each word so you could stop and think about what they mean and we can quit going in circles with this conversation. I'm very much in agreement. It's about time this thread should be locked.

Lock this thread for what? Just because you don't agree?

Well yeah.  If they don't like what you're saying and can't bully you away from expressing your point of view, then call for the thread to be locked.

[Plutonic Panda]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

Just to be clear, I'm not entirely convinced that this person is a troll or trolling. But it is very bizarre to me how much energy they are putting to die on this hill. It's just strange to me.

Which is why I thought they were trolling by saying that an entirely voluntary HOT lane system (MNPass) had more of a reason to integrate into E-ZPass than a mandatory toll bridge that is a similar distance away from the E-ZPass network. It's just bizarre and illogical reasoning to me.

And here we go again with the EZPASS crap.

Let me put this very clearly

Interoperable. Tolling. System. That. Works. With. Any. Other. Toll. Pass.

It. Doesn't. Have. To. Be. EZPASS.

I put periods at the end of each word so you could stop and think about what they mean and we can quit going in circles with this conversation. I'm very much in agreement. It's about time this thread should be locked.

Lock this thread for what? Just because you don't agree?

Well yeah.  If they don't like what you're saying and can't bully you away from expressing your point of view, then call for the thread to be locked.

I don't necessarily see it that way. This conversation just seems to be going in a circle.

[Flint1979]

I don't know. To be honest. I kinda like taking my time over the bridge. And its some of the best 4 bucks you can spend. So what if the toll booths take time, At least with this bridge you don't have bloody customs on both ends. Yeah want delays? Try all the other large bridges in the area (or the tunnel).

For me, I always just nab some 2 dollar bills from the bank when I head this way. Just hand a couple off when I go through. Takes no time most of the time, and most people tend to take their time going over the bridge anyway. Why not.. it is the 3rd longest suspension bridge in the country, and all the rest are on the ocean coasts.

It is totally a landmark structure.. stop and admire it.

When its cold out, you HAVE to take your time...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GQDjCGR7ck

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I feel like congestion where I'm not expecting or really wanting to deal with it would be more aggravating. I've seen photos of massive crunches heading into Two Harbors, MN on MN 61 where the expressway ends and that would majorly suck to get caught in.

[KelleyCook]

Why not.. it is the 3rd longest suspension bridge in the country, and all the rest are on the ocean coasts.

Why not.. it is the 3rd longest suspension bridge in the country, and all the rest are on the ocean coasts.

The Big Mac is the longest if you measure how much deck the bridge is suspended, which the Verrazzano-Narrows people successfully lobbied against to have the "longest" record reflect via main span only (aka between the towers), which is kinda cheating when one of the towers is essentially on land.

So in turn of total length being suspended:

Name	Total suspended (miles)	Main span only (miles)
Mackinac Bridge	1.59	0.72
Golden Gate	1.32	0.80
Verrazzano-Narrows	1.25	0.81

[Terry Shea]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

Just to be clear, I'm not entirely convinced that this person is a troll or trolling. But it is very bizarre to me how much energy they are putting to die on this hill. It's just strange to me.

Which is why I thought they were trolling by saying that an entirely voluntary HOT lane system (MNPass) had more of a reason to integrate into E-ZPass than a mandatory toll bridge that is a similar distance away from the E-ZPass network. It's just bizarre and illogical reasoning to me.

And here we go again with the EZPASS crap.

Let me put this very clearly

Interoperable. Tolling. System. That. Works. With. Any. Other. Toll. Pass.

It. Doesn't. Have. To. Be. EZPASS.

I put periods at the end of each word so you could stop and think about what they mean and we can quit going in circles with this conversation. I'm very much in agreement. It's about time this thread should be locked.

Lock this thread for what? Just because you don't agree?

Well yeah.  If they don't like what you're saying and can't bully you away from expressing your point of view, then call for the thread to be locked.

I don't necessarily see it that way. This conversation just seems to be going in a circle.

If you think that then why keep participating in a conversation that you think is either going nowhere or in a circle?  That would make you part of the problem, not the solution.

[vdeane]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

[Molandfreak]

I feel like congestion where I'm not expecting or really wanting to deal with it would be more aggravating. I've seen photos of massive crunches heading into Two Harbors, MN on MN 61 where the expressway ends and that would majorly suck to get caught in.

Exactly—I could see a similar argument being made against traffic management in Two Harbors for the scenery, but MnDOT rearranged the turn lanes in Two Harbors anyway. It didn't completely eliminate the problem (it will never be fully eliminated unless they dust off plans for a Two Harbors bypass), but it is much less stressful to drive through now than it was before 2018. I envision a similar arrangement if more Michiganders adopt MacPass—not completely eliminating traffic, but making it more manageable and efficient on the busiest weekends.

[Rothman]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I feel like congestion where I'm not expecting or really wanting to deal with it would be more aggravating. I've seen photos of massive crunches heading into Two Harbors, MN on MN 61 where the expressway ends and that would majorly suck to get caught in.

Exactly—I could see a similar argument being made against traffic management in Two Harbors for the scenery, but MnDOT rearranged the turn lanes in Two Harbors anyway. It didn't completely eliminate the problem (it will never be fully eliminated unless they dust off plans for a Two Harbors bypass), but it is much less stressful to drive through now than it was before 2018. I envision a similar arrangement if more Michiganders adopt MacPass—not completely eliminating traffic, but making it more manageable and efficient on the busiest weekends.

For sure. But my point was if I want to go sit in traffic I can just go hang out on Crosstown or 494 between 100 and Cedar at pretty much any time between 6 AM and 9 PM and it'll be crappy. I don't want to sit in it on 61, that's the whole point of why I'm up there. I've played the game enough to know when to go and when not to, but sitting in horrific backups kind of defeats the purpose of being in vacation world.

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

You aren't getting close to anything here. The speed limit is 45 mph on the bridge, I drive 45 mph. How would I be the reason for any congestion?

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

[Rothman]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

...and another reason for the congestion.

Not even close to a reason for the congestion, driving 45 mph on a bridge with a speed limit of 45 mph is not another reason for the congestion. You are wrong.

My word, you just fight people on every little thing.

[vdeane]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

You aren't getting close to anything here. The speed limit is 45 mph on the bridge, I drive 45 mph. How would I be the reason for any congestion?

Dear lord, I said "heart of the opposition", not "heart of the congestion".  Are you viewing those of us who are pro-interoperability (with E-ZPass and/or anything else) as a monolith?

That said, out east, driving exactly the speed limit is considered slow.  I usually drive 5-7 over and still get passed like I'm standing still on any multi-lane bridge with a speed limit in that range.

[Flint1979]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

You aren't getting close to anything here. The speed limit is 45 mph on the bridge, I drive 45 mph. How would I be the reason for any congestion?

Dear lord, I said "heart of the opposition", not "heart of the congestion".  Are you viewing those of us who are pro-interoperability (with E-ZPass and/or anything else) as a monolith?

That said, out east, driving exactly the speed limit is considered slow.  I usually drive 5-7 over and still get passed like I'm standing still on any multi-lane bridge with a speed limit in that range.

Well in northern Michigan driving exactly the speed limit is not considered slow. In areas where at warrants a higher speed I do go a little faster but not on the Mackinac Bridge.

[webny99]

With kphoger absent from the forum, let's see if I can pull this off with equivalent flair...

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

Oh and #226 was attempting to attack me as well

How do you know he was referring to you and not the city? After all, the city has plenty of bigger problems to be concerned about than EZPass interoperability on the Mackinac bridge. 

[Molandfreak]

You got that right. Out of all the times I cross the bridge I take my time and enjoy the views. If I get stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of the bridge I'm in the best place on Earth right smack between Michigan's two peninsulas. I love it.

I feel like we're getting closer to the heart of the opposition here.

You aren't getting close to anything here. The speed limit is 45 mph on the bridge, I drive 45 mph. How would I be the reason for any congestion?

Dear lord, I said "heart of the opposition", not "heart of the congestion".  Are you viewing those of us who are pro-interoperability (with E-ZPass and/or anything else) as a monolith?

That said, out east, driving exactly the speed limit is considered slow.  I usually drive 5-7 over and still get passed like I'm standing still on any multi-lane bridge with a speed limit in that range.

Well in northern Michigan driving exactly the speed limit is not considered slow. In areas where at warrants a higher speed I do go a little faster but not on the Mackinac Bridge.

I frequently get passed like I'm standing still when I go 70 on M-28 and US 2. People do obey the limit on the Mac, though.

[GaryV]

When my son went to Michigan Tech, a father of an older student told me, "Never ask them how long it took to get home. Because they might tell you."

[Flint1979]

With kphoger absent from the forum, let's see if I can pull this off with equivalent flair...

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

Oh and #226 was attempting to attack me as well

How do you know he was referring to you and not the city? After all, the city has plenty of bigger problems to be concerned about than EZPass interoperability on the Mackinac bridge. 

Lol. He might have been for all I know. That city is a thing of beauty.