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Oklahoma Highways | Small projects and construction

Started by Plutonic Panda, July 14, 2016, 08:00:46 PM

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Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2021, 07:04:13 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 11, 2021, 04:42:27 PM
In general, Oklahoma does have a certain voter base that thinks taxation is theft and they shouldn't pay for a road "they'll never use."  Hopefully this years redistricting initiative might sway the unbalanced rural favoring of politics Oklahoma experiences.

I wouldn't count on that. Oklahoma Republicans are still rattled that they lost the fifth district in 2018, even though they won it back in 2020. I'm expecting the 2022 maps to slice and dice the metro areas even more so that they get stuck to unrelated rural areas, dividing and conquering the urban areas so they have no power to overcome the rural voters. That is, something similar to Utah's congressional districts.
There was a proposal to redistrict earlier this year and OKC would gain a seat and Tulsa would lose one. It looks like they consolidated some urban areas in OKC. For some reason I thought that was more or less the final proposal but...


kphoger

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 13, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about California's gas tax. I'd have less of a problem with it if trusted the state government but I don't want to get too political so I'll leave it at that.

In general, the bolded portion is a fool's errand, no matter the state.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2021, 10:30:11 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 13, 2021, 05:17:39 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about California's gas tax. I'd have less of a problem with it if trusted the state government but I don't want to get too political so I'll leave it at that.

In general, the bolded portion is a fool's errand, no matter the state.
I don't disagree but we have to have some level of trust in our society and government. I was never a true fan of how some of the funds for SB-1 were going to be used but I was willing to compromise as CA badly needed an increase in road funding.

Bobby5280

Quote from: Plutonic PandaThere was a proposal to redistrict earlier this year and OKC would gain a seat and Tulsa would lose one. It looks like they consolidated some urban areas in OKC. For some reason I thought that was more or less the final proposal but...

Oklahoma's state district redistricting is a done deal. I don't know about what Tulsa gained or even lost, although I would find it hard to believe Tulsa could have lost anything. The only real losers in this round of redistricting is rural areas. There is a lot of consolidation happening there, particularly the Southeast part of Oklahoma.

The state's legislature will go back into special session this fall to re-draw the lines for Oklahoma's 5 US congressional districts. They have to wait until they get the final US Census data.

splashflash

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 11, 2021, 04:06:11 PM
While I don't necessary disagree with the "cheapassed conservative rednecks" comment, building new roads as toll roads may be the only way new roads in Oklahoma (and elsewhere) get constructed. I am skeptical of "just-raise-the-gas-tax" arguments. I would not be surprised if gas taxes are eventually eliminated completely, in favor of other types of fees to pay for transportation improvements.

I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/06/05/why-user-fees-should-pay-for-transportation-infrastructure/amp/

bugo

Quote from: splashflash on June 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

No. That would be the equivalent of a regressive tax that disproportionally harms the poor. Unless you're going to tie the amount of tolls to the value of the car or the wealth of the driver, sort of like how in some countries, the more a person makes, the higher traffic tickets are. And I'm not against toll roads. I used a toll road literally an hour ago. But I don't believe they should be everywhere. There should always be a free alternative, funded by a gas tax. Even though there are no free alternatives to some toll roads.
Nobody is on the level of the devil.

Plutonic Panda

^^^ completely agree. I wish we'd abolish toll roads personally but that's my 2 cents.

In_Correct

Quote from: bugo on June 19, 2021, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: splashflash on June 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

No. That would be the equivalent of a regressive tax that disproportionally harms the poor. Unless you're going to tie the amount of tolls to the value of the car or the wealth of the driver, sort of like how in some countries, the more a person makes, the higher traffic tickets are. And I'm not against toll roads. I used a toll road literally an hour ago. But I don't believe they should be everywhere. There should always be a free alternative, funded by a gas tax. Even though there are no free alternatives to some toll roads.

Roads are not funded by gas taxes. The gas taxes are used to provide incentives for teachers. Tolls must be expanded to every Superhighway.
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

splashflash

Quote from: In_Correct on June 19, 2021, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: bugo on June 19, 2021, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: splashflash on June 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
I see tolls as taxes, just more efficient.  Roadpricing should be everywhere.

No. That would be the equivalent of a regressive tax that disproportionally harms the poor. Unless you're going to tie the amount of tolls to the value of the car or the wealth of the driver, sort of like how in some countries, the more a person makes, the higher traffic tickets are. And I'm not against toll roads. I used a toll road literally an hour ago. But I don't believe they should be everywhere. There should always be a free alternative, funded by a gas tax. Even though there are no free alternatives to some toll roads.

Roads are not funded by gas taxes. The gas taxes are used to provide incentives for teachers. Tolls must be expanded to every Superhighway.

From the arrival,

user fees are socially just because people are getting what they pay for. Far from putting a burden on low-income people, a user-fee-driven transportation system gives everyone a choice of the kind of transportation that works best for them.

In contrast, infrastructure that is paid for out of tax dollars usually ends up primarily benefitting high-income people because they have more political power. At least three-fourths of the subsidies to public transit come from regressive taxes, yet the median income of transit commuters is much higher than the median of all workers. Nineteen out of twenty low-income people don't ride transit to work, yet they disproportionately pay for transit systems that are disproportionately used by high-income people.

Plutonic Panda

The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Scott5114

Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?
Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

Scott5114

#87
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 06:35:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?
Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

I believe that Texas's involvement is limited to the bridge itself and the adjoining section of I-35 in Cooke County (which is pretty subpar as it is now).

US-82 to Oklahoma exit 1 is 7.4 miles on the money.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

JMoses24

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?

Cole could easily, if he wanted to, extend the project all the way to Norman because his congressional district covers that entire section of I-35. I would agree that his tribal interest is the key factor in how that section came to be first.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 07:48:41 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 06:35:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?
Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

I believe that Texas's involvement is limited to the bridge itself and the adjoining section of I-35 in Cooke County (which is pretty subpar as it is now).

US-82 to Oklahoma exit 1 is 7.4 miles on the money.
Good to know. I believe there will be a net gain of 2 bridges over the red river being 4 bridges in total.

dchristy

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Will this grant mean that I-35 will actually be widened to six lanes from the Red River Bridge to Thackerville?  I couldn't tell by the press release.  If Texas gets involved it would be nice if that sharp curve immediately south of the bridge could be realigned.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: dchristy on July 06, 2021, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Will this grant mean that I-35 will actually be widened to six lanes from the Red River Bridge to Thackerville?  I couldn't tell by the press release.  If Texas gets involved it would be nice if that sharp curve immediately south of the bridge could be realigned.
That's a good question. Some articles imply yes it will be widened to Thackerville others make it seem it will only be widened to the first interchange on the Oklahoma side.

rte66man

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 05, 2021, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 07:48:41 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 06:35:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2021, 05:57:35 PM
Less significant than you might think–this isn't the first step in a planned widening all the way from Texas to Norman. Notice which tribe was name-checked in the press release? Guess which one Cole is a member of? Guess who owns the casino where the widening stops, and who contributed money toward the Oklahoma portion of the project?
Given what the area has seen, a project to widen I-35 from 8 to 6 lanes with service roads is pretty significant if you ask me along with adding two new bridges over the river. TxDOT seems to be interested into paying some of the cost in the state of Oklahoma if I'm reading it correctly.

I believe that Texas's involvement is limited to the bridge itself and the adjoining section of I-35 in Cooke County (which is pretty subpar as it is now).

US-82 to Oklahoma exit 1 is 7.4 miles on the money.
Good to know. I believe there will be a net gain of 2 bridges over the red river being 4 bridges in total.

Nope. They are only keeping one of the existing bridges to serve the frontage road (I think the western one). IIRC, it will be 8 lanes to Exit 1 then 6 lanes to Exit 3. I will see if I can find the plans again.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

In_Correct

There is no reason why they can not slide the other bridge over so that they can have two new Main Bridges and two Frontage Road Bridges.
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

Bobby5280

How do you "slide over" an existing bridge?

In_Correct

Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: dchristy on July 06, 2021, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 04, 2021, 05:18:59 PM
The project to widen the I-35 red river bridge along with the rest of the road to Thackerville has received a $50 million dollar federal grant:

QuoteI-35 Red River Bridge Project

In collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation, this $50 million grant will be used to improve approximately 7.4 miles of I-35 across the Texas and Oklahoma border. The Red River Bridge Project will have significant positive impacts in both Oklahoma and Texas, including within the Chickasaw Nation. The infrastructure that is currently in place was built in the 1960s and can no longer accommodate current traffic volumes of 50,000 vehicles per day.

On March 15, 2021, Cole joined Inhofe in sending a letter to the U.S. Department of Transportation in support of this funding for the I-35 Red River Project.

https://cole.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/oklahoma-awarded-100-million-in-competitive-highway-grants

This is a pretty significant project for southern Oklahoma. It will be great when I-35 is six lanes from OKC to Dallas. Hopefully OkDOT starts planning for widening I-35 to six lanes from Norman to Thackerville soon.

Will this grant mean that I-35 will actually be widened to six lanes from the Red River Bridge to Thackerville?  I couldn't tell by the press release.  If Texas gets involved it would be nice if that sharp curve immediately south of the bridge could be realigned.
It looks like it will be widened to 8 lanes to Merle Wolfe or Red River RD(whatever that road parallel to I-35 is) and then six lanes to Rodgers RD.

https://www.odot.org/projmgmt/poi/Division%207/Project%20Status%20Report%20-%20I-35%20Love%20Co%2033481(04)31896(04).pdf

kphoger



I-35 south of Pauls Valley.  We were speeding up at the time.

First time I've seen a zipper merge in Oklahoma.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Plutonic Panda

OHP will need to start enforcing zipper merge or at least watching zipper merge areas and nabbing those who take up two lanes to prevent people from passing. It is one of the most annoying things I see on the road and I'm not even one of those who tried to jump in front. I was almost sideswiped by some prick who tried to block me on a perfectly legal zipper merge and we had words.

I've noticed New Mexico is really going crazy with zipper merging(which is awesome) and has multiple reminder signs that tell people to maintain speed and stay in lane until it the final merging point.

kphoger

At this Oklahoma location, they used a portable VMS to say "TAKE TURNS / AT MERGE".
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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