Erroneous road signs

[pderocco]

On NC 36 EB, one of the speed limits is wrong....

NC 36 EAST NEAR BOLING ST by Mark Moore, on Flickr

Maybe the lower sign had a TRUCKS banner that fell off.

[thenetwork]

On NC 36 EB, one of the speed limits is wrong....

NC 36 EAST NEAR BOLING ST by Mark Moore, on Flickr

We are witnessing this rural sign post in the process of molting, shedding its old winter speed limits for summertime velocities.

The sign grew up... in both ways!

Tall people may drive 45, while short, little old ladies who can barely see over the steering wheel can only drive 35.

And that is pretty much true on it's own -- with or without the dual signage.

[74/171FAN]

While I think that a concurrency with US 30 and US 322 between here and PA 100, and US 322 replacing PA 100 south to US 202, would make sense.  It is still an error.

US 322 EAST AT US 30 EAST (2) by Mark Moore, on Flickr

Well one of these is wrong (Mars-Valencia Rd at PA 228 in Mars)

PA 228 WEST AT MARS-VALENCIA RD (3) by Mark Moore, on Flickr

VA 688 makes an appearance on VA 7 BUS between Round Hill and Purcellville

[Revive 755]

Does Route N turn or does it continue straight and become MO 364?
Streetview with a turn assembly for Route N
Streetview with a Route N shield after the turn and a partially visible 'Route N Ends Continue on MO 364 East sign' on the other road.

[pderocco]

While I think that a concurrency with US 30 and US 322 between here and PA 100, and US 322 replacing PA 100 south to US 202, would make sense.  It is still an error.

How many roads izzat?

[kphoger]

Does Route N turn or does it continue straight and become MO 364?
Streetview with a turn assembly for Route N
Streetview with a Route N shield after the turn and a partially visible 'Route N Ends Continue on MO 364 East sign' on the other road.

I can't figure out all the details, but it appears that turning right used to keep you on Route N, back before the Page Avenue Freeway was extended to I-64 in 2014.  The official MoDOT map labels that section of Hawk Ridge Trl as 'Old Hwy N', even though the street that bears that name today actually cuts the diagonal.

Here you can see (.pdf warning) that the point at which Route N turns into Route 364 is actually partway between the intersection and the cloverleaf.

[kphoger]

If only it were rotated 90° to the right...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/aEJbNBqNxM59GLDY8

[Scott5114]

Does Route N turn or does it continue straight and become MO 364?
Streetview with a turn assembly for Route N
Streetview with a Route N shield after the turn and a partially visible 'Route N Ends Continue on MO 364 East sign' on the other road.

I can't figure out all the details, but it appears that turning right used to keep you on Route N, back before the Page Avenue Freeway was extended to I-64 in 2014.  The official MoDOT map labels that section of Hawk Ridge Trl as 'Old Hwy N', even though the street that bears that name today actually cuts the diagonal.

Here you can see (.pdf warning) that the point at which Route N turns into Route 364 is actually partway between the intersection and the cloverleaf.

I am thinking the signage at the western terminus of Route 364 is just one of those awkward attempts at signing "you are no longer on highway X, you are now on highway Y" that leads some jurisdictions to incorrectly used "ends/begins" signage. To me, it looks like N turns onto Hawk Ridge, and follows it to Bryan Road, where it hops over MO 364 and becomes the north outer road. Its eastern terminus appears to actually have been, at least at one point, at this intersection, although the eastmost Route N shield I can find is here, so perhaps MoDOT truncated the route to at least Weiss Road, and Cottleville is just unusually enthusiastic about retaining "Route N" as a street name. Either of these are a kind of weird dead-end terminus at a non-state highway.

This Route N seems to be an unusually long-lived secondary highway that extends far out into the sticks to the west. At Route 364's eastern end, it becomes Route D, which is as far as I know the only lettered route freeway. What is it with 364 and attracting strangely prominent lettered routes?

[kphoger]

To me, it looks like N turns onto Hawk Ridge, and follows it to Bryan Road, where it hops over MO 364 and becomes the north outer road. Its eastern terminus appears to actually have been, at least at one point, at this intersection, although the eastmost Route N shield I can find is here, so perhaps MoDOT truncated the route to at least Weiss Road, and Cottleville is just unusually enthusiastic about retaining "Route N" as a street name. Either of these are a kind of weird dead-end terminus at a non-state highway.

This Route N seems to be an unusually long-lived secondary highway that extends far out into the sticks to the west. At Route 364's eastern end, it becomes Route D, which is as far as I know the only lettered route freeway. What is it with 364 and attracting strangely prominent lettered routes?

[formatting fixed]

Aha!  Thank you.

1.  The tiny bit between the I-64/MO-364 interchange and Hawk Ridge Trail must either be a tag end of MO-364 or else an unsigned spur of SSR-N, or just a state highway orphan.

2.  From what you supposed was SSR-N's eastern terminus, at the intersection of Central School Road and Mid Rivers Mall Drive, the MoDOT city map for St Peters has it turning south to the interchange with MO-94/MO-364.  From what I can tell in GSV, everything between Weiss Road and that interchange is completely unsigned as a supplemental state highway, but it's clearly labeled on the MoDOT map as a "Letter Route", and no other SSR fits the bill there.







https://www.modot.org/sites/default/files/documents/CityMap_ST.%20PETERS.pdf
https://www.modot.org/sites/default/files/documents/CityMap_LAKE%20ST.%20LOUIS.pdf

On the map linked below, red means "State Marked - NOS", which I assume stands for "Not Otherwise Specified" or something like that.

https://www.modot.org/sites/default/files/documents/County_L_ST.%20CHARLES.pdf

[Scott5114]

The tiny bit between the I-64/MO-364 interchange and Hawk Ridge Trail must either be a tag end of MO-364 or else an unsigned spur of SSR-N, or just a state highway orphan.

My guess is that the actual end of Route 364 is at Hawk Ridge Trail, and the big "end" sign is just placed where it is because that's a convenient place to put it to avoid message loading.

Oklahoma likewise tends to place "end" assemblies a few hundred feet ahead of the junction where the route actually ends. That's made it hard for me to get used to Nevada practice. NDOT actually places the end/begin assemblies at precisely the spot where they hand off maintenance to the city or county, and the numbered routes actually do overshoot interchanges by a few hundred feet to make sure that all of the ramp junctions fall under NDOT maintenance. (NV 574 really does begin at this bus stop!) Which makes for some very annoying near-misses when it comes to clinches before I figured that out...

[kphoger]

My guess is that the actual end of Route 364 is at Hawk Ridge Trail, and the big "end" sign is just placed where it is because that's a convenient place to put it to avoid message loading.

The only reason I didn't definitively say that was this:

Here you can see (.pdf warning) that the point at which Route N turns into Route 364 is actually partway between the intersection and the cloverleaf.

[Scott5114]

My guess is that the actual end of Route 364 is at Hawk Ridge Trail, and the big "end" sign is just placed where it is because that's a convenient place to put it to avoid message loading.

The only reason I didn't definitively say that was this:

Here you can see (.pdf warning) that the point at which Route N turns into Route 364 is actually partway between the intersection and the cloverleaf.

My interpretation is that was actually the begin/end point the project phase which that PDF was describing, and the label of "begin route 364" was merely inaccurate wording. (Note that they also label that point as "Begin westbound Route 364", which cannot logically be true.)

[kphoger]

This is all corroborated by MoDOT's AADT map.  That little bit is labeled '364', and 'N' is labeled all the way to the Mid Rivers Mall Road interchange.

[roadfro]

NDOT actually places the end/begin assemblies at precisely the spot where they hand off maintenance to the city or county, and the numbered routes actually do overshoot interchanges by a few hundred feet to make sure that all of the ramp junctions fall under NDOT maintenance. (NV 574 really does begin at this bus stop!) Which makes for some very annoying near-misses when it comes to clinches before I figured that out...

NDOT's begin/end signage is generally right at the spot of the ownership/maintenance change in rural areas. However, the urban terminus signage can be woefully inconsistent with begin/end applications. 

Using SR 574 as an example: If you look at the westbound direction, the "End NV 574" sign is placed closer to the interchange than the begin sign is eastbound, specifically right at the Target driveway. The SR 574 zero mileposts are stickers on the traffic signal masts at the US 95 southbound ramps. The 2025 NDOT State Maintained Highways book says the western terminus of SR 574 is "IR 11, 0.04 miles west of Ramp 3"—0.04 miles works out to about 211 feet, and that measurement doesn't seem to match up with either begin/end sign or the mileposts. However, westbound there is a pretty visible pavement change that's pretty close to the placement of the end signage which might suggest that's the actual end of maintenance spot, but there is no clear corresponding pavement change in the eastbound direction.

Often in urban areas, NDOT mounts the begin/end sign assemblies on a street light pole near the route's actual begin/end point instead of the actual spot...

[Scott5114]

NDOT actually places the end/begin assemblies at precisely the spot where they hand off maintenance to the city or county, and the numbered routes actually do overshoot interchanges by a few hundred feet to make sure that all of the ramp junctions fall under NDOT maintenance. (NV 574 really does begin at this bus stop!) Which makes for some very annoying near-misses when it comes to clinches before I figured that out...

NDOT's begin/end signage is generally right at the spot of the ownership/maintenance change in rural areas. However, the urban terminus signage can be woefully inconsistent with begin/end applications.

Using SR 574 as an example: If you look at the westbound direction, the "End NV 574" sign is placed closer to the interchange than the begin sign is eastbound, specifically right at the Target driveway. The SR 574 zero mileposts are stickers on the traffic signal masts at the US 95 southbound ramps. The 2025 NDOT State Maintained Highways book says the western terminus of SR 574 is "IR 11, 0.04 miles west of Ramp 3"—0.04 miles works out to about 211 feet, and that measurement doesn't seem to match up with either begin/end sign or the mileposts. However, westbound there is a pretty visible pavement change that's pretty close to the placement of the end signage which might suggest that's the actual end of maintenance spot, but there is no clear corresponding pavement change in the eastbound direction.

Often in urban areas, NDOT mounts the begin/end sign assemblies on a street light pole near the route's actual begin/end point instead of the actual spot...

That's still quite a bit more precise than what I'm used to from Oklahoma. The eastern terminus of OK-74B isn't even visible from where the end sign is posted, about 1200 feet before the terminus.

[74/171FAN]

I believe that this OH 3 SB shield is just a little too far east on US 36.

US 36 WEST WEST OF HIGH ST by Mark Moore, on Flickr

[Big John]

^^ and the US 36 shield leaves something to be desired at the long corners.