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Author Topic: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway  (Read 11723 times)

WNYroadgeek

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Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« on: November 05, 2009, 11:00:24 AM »

BUFFALO, N.Y. (WIVB) - State transportation officials will be holding a workshop on transforming a busy Buffalo expressway into a pedestrian-friendly parkway.

The Scajaquada Expressway pulls tens of thousands of commuters off of North Buffalo's clogged residential streets onto a single east-west connector, from the I-190 at its west end, to the Kensington Expressway to the east.

After more than 50 years, plans are underway to convert the Scajaquada Expressway into a parkway, similar to the other parkways in the Olmsted Parks system.

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/Plans_convert_Scajaquada_into_parkway_20091104
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Revive 755

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 12:52:01 PM »

Quote from: article
design engineers have been drawing up a number of options to slow traffic down, introduce bike paths and crosswalks
:banghead: (really could use an exploding smiley here)

Unless many of the bridges on this route are about to collapse, this study is a total waste of money.  It will only replace a grade separated barrier with an at grade one.  I don't even see an option for enhancing pedestrian access with new pedestrian bridges/tunnels.  And where is the alternative with reducing the interchange footprints by switching to SPUIs or DDIs?

Quote from: NYSDOT purpose and need:
Heavy traffic congestion that occurs at one or more locations during peak periods
Vehicular operating speeds that exceed the posted limit and design speed
Higher than expected crash rates, crash severity, and identifiable crash patterns
Source:  https://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/portal/content/delivery/region5/projects/547022-home/547022-repository/2009-09-16PurposeAndNeedDisplayBoard.pdf
So adding more signals or narrowing the road to  one lane each way is going to reduce congestion?  Having  a speed limit possibly as low as 30 instead of 50 is going to have more obedience?  Switching from sideswipes to t-bone crashes (if signalized intersections are used) would be safer?

I certainly hope NYSDOT doesn't have any bridges about to be closed due to lack of funds for maintenance or repalcement if they can waste money on this project.

(This post repeatedly edited due to getting interrupted while typing or NYSDOT's site's pdf files trying to lock up computer)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 01:51:25 PM by Revive 755 »
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froggie

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 03:41:34 PM »

Quote
Unless many of the bridges on this route are about to collapse,

Which it wouldn't surprise me if they are.  Those bridges (and those on nearby NY 33) were looking in poor condition 5 years ago, let alone since then...
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 09:24:54 PM »

very bad ideas, they should instead built them like Robert Moses' LI Parkways but with overpass high enough to allow trucks
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vdeane

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 10:09:57 PM »

What's with all the freeway hate in upstate NY?  Every major city is trying to (or has succeeded in) getting rid of freeways.
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D-Dey65

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 10:29:18 PM »

Revive 755's assessment is why I don't trust NYSDOT when it comes to highway improvements that much anymore. They cater too easily to the whims of NIMBYists. They're already doing that with future plans for NY 25 in Coram, Middle Island, and Ridge that have been pushed by the "Longwood Alliance" for the past 20 or so years, which is why when it comes to NY 112, I'll believe that they'll improve it when I see it, and when I see how they're going to do it.

What they ought to be doing, is going back to the plans of 40 years ago that included realignment of both NY 112 and 25 in Coram and turning both roads into four-lane divided highways.


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Duke87

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 12:00:06 AM »

Quote from: article
design engineers have been drawing up a number of options to slow traffic down, introduce bike paths and crosswalks
:banghead: (really could use an exploding smiley here)

Unless many of the bridges on this route are about to collapse, this study is a total waste of money.  It will only replace a grade separated barrier with an at grade one.  I don't even see an option for enhancing pedestrian access with new pedestrian bridges/tunnels.  And where is the alternative with reducing the interchange footprints by switching to SPUIs or DDIs?

The "neighborhood severance" argument deals as much with highways being a psychological barrier as a physical one. In that regard, an "at grade barrier" is better since walking through a crosswalk doesn't have nearly as drastic of an "I'm crossing over to the other side" feeling as using an overpass or underpass does.

Of course, no one has ever been run over by a car while using a pedestrian overpass, so despite not being quite so "pleasant", it's infinitely safer... albeit more taxing on the elderly and handicapped to have to go up and down to do so.

It would appear as though converting interchanges to SPUIs would make sense, as would adding some shoulders and removing the existing intersection at Parkside Avenue (disclaimer: I've never been anywhere near this highway and am going only on what's been said here and Google Earth/Street View).

What's with all the freeway hate in upstate NY?  Every major city is trying to (or has succeeded in) getting rid of freeways.

Politics. Currently it's politically correct that cars are evil and mass transit, bicycles, and pedestrians are good. Everywhere you look cities are trying to discourage car usage and prod people into alternative means of transportation. A huge chunk of Broadway in Midtown Manhattan is completely closed to vehicular traffic now. They're talking about doing the same with 42nd Street.

Making cities pedestrian friendly is nice and all but sometimes people tend to go overboard with it. Traffic is somewhat elastic and can handle a little marginalization, but a lot becomes problematic. As with anything else, too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


I tell you what, though, anyone who lives along this highway has good reason to support converting it to a parkway - their property value would increase significantly, as it all of a sudden would be a much more pleasant place to live...
...the traffic currently driving through there be damned, of course. :pan:
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vdeane

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2009, 08:34:07 AM »

And they would have to use local streets to get places instead of a freeway... but that's just me, I like to maximize the amount of freeway I go on.

Oddly given the politics, nobody in power in Rochester will even think of redoing the bus routes so more people will use them.
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Mergingtraffic

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 11:40:25 AM »


Politics. Currently it's politically correct that cars are evil and mass transit, bicycles, and pedestrians are good. Everywhere you look cities are trying to discourage car usage and prod people into alternative means of transportation. A huge chunk of Broadway in Midtown Manhattan is completely closed to vehicular traffic now. They're talking about doing the same with 42nd Street.

Making cities pedestrian friendly is nice and all but sometimes people tend to go overboard with it. Traffic is somewhat elastic and can handle a little marginalization, but a lot becomes problematic. As with anything else, too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


I tell you what, though, anyone who lives along this highway has good reason to support converting it to a parkway - their property value would increase significantly, as it all of a sudden would be a much more pleasant place to live...
...the traffic currently driving through there be damned, of course. :pan:

In fact, I propose a new era of freeway happiness.  In several towns that have been ruined by their loss of town charm, they are now proposing freeway bypasses so the through traffic can go around the town.  This allows the town to reclaim their town charm by refurbishing their formerly clogged streets into town centers. 
Brookfield, CT plans on doing that as the US-7 Expressway Bypass is set to open next month.

A lot of people think of roads as the OLD stereotype of demolishing neighborhoods and putting up elevated highways over them.  As we see im my example new highways can NOW improve towns.  We have to change their minds to think that freeways can improve life. 

Let's face it, I don't see myself using a multi-use path to get to work.  I wonder if the politcians that propose all this bike-lane, multi-use stuff actually use them!?
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vdeane

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2009, 12:07:20 PM »

Doubt it.  Most problems are only solved when they get so bad that politicians are actually affected by them.
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Snappyjack

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2009, 01:52:35 PM »

Typical New York BS. And we wonder why the state is going broke. Vast amounts of money wasted on useless studies. Instead of wasting money on that, they should improve what they have already.
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cu2010

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2009, 11:55:04 PM »

...or better yet, not spend it. We're taxed enough as it is.  :-D

This sounds just about as stupid as the 590 project in Irondequiot. We need more lanes to handle congestion, not fewer.  Not only would replacing the freeway with a narrow, two-lane, pedestrian-friendly parkway going to congest city streets further, but it'll further congest the other freeways as more people will use them...

I hate politicians.
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Snappyjack

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2009, 12:38:49 AM »

Agreed.
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Roadgeek Adam

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2009, 10:15:11 AM »

That's beautification and modernization for you.
 
sigh..
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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 05:26:21 PM »

Is the freeway heavily clogged?  If so, why not just put a slight upgrade on it?  From the looks on Google Earth, it appears pretty useful, connecting I-190 with NY 33, also a freeway.  NYSDOT needs people like us in charge because we actually see the other side of things, and we would't cave easily to NIMBYs, unlike these guys. 
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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2009, 08:59:06 AM »

Apparently there used to be a roundabout (you read that right) at the NY 198 / Parkside AVE traffic signal.  That's right in front of Medaille College, where I used to go to school.

Holy mackerel, that signal is horrible.  There's really only one phase that pedestrians can safely cross the 198, too.
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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 10:58:25 AM »

what is a roundabout in this context?  as opposed to a rotary or a traffic circle?
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burgess87

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 11:00:23 AM »

what is a roundabout in this context?  as opposed to a rotary or a traffic circle?

I'm not sure - I've never seen a picture of the 198 before the horribly substandard roadway that it is now.
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Snappyjack

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2009, 12:22:57 PM »

Is the freeway heavily clogged?  If so, why not just put a slight upgrade on it?  From the looks on Google Earth, it appears pretty useful, connecting I-190 with NY 33, also a freeway.  NYSDOT needs people like us in charge because we actually see the other side of things, and we would't cave easily to NIMBYs, unlike these guys. 

No, it's not really that bad judging from the times I've traveled it. Of course, none of those times were in rush hour, so I can't say it's not busy 100% of the time. But it definitely useful.
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Sykotyk

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Re: Plans convert Scajaquada (NY 198) into parkway
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2009, 02:22:25 PM »

In fact, I propose a new era of freeway happiness.  In several towns that have been ruined by their loss of town charm, they are now proposing freeway bypasses so the through traffic can go around the town.  This allows the town to reclaim their town charm by refurbishing their formerly clogged streets into town centers. 
Brookfield, CT plans on doing that as the US-7 Expressway Bypass is set to open next month.

A lot of people think of roads as the OLD stereotype of demolishing neighborhoods and putting up elevated highways over them.  As we see im my example new highways can NOW improve towns.  We have to change their minds to think that freeways can improve life. 

Let's face it, I don't see myself using a multi-use path to get to work.  I wonder if the politcians that propose all this bike-lane, multi-use stuff actually use them!?

I've been saying that for a long time. The biggest problem with the interstate system is that it is setup to direct travelers from center of a city to the center of a city. What happens, then, obviously, is that thru traffic will go right through the city. Mix in commuter traffic, and you have a horrible mess when you factor in population growth.

But, if you have a freeway, why get rid of it? Besides, once it's turned into a parkway, I doubt Buffalo will ever have the money to correct what I feel will be a major mistake, nor the humility of the DOT to admit they were wrong.

Plus, if a parkway gets busy, you can expect a lot of people to travel the surface streets as they will probably be nearly as fast as a parkway/boulevard than a freeway.

Sykotyk
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