http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/us/mount-mckinley-will-be-renamed-denali.html?_r=0
Glad our President has the affairs of the country so well in hand that he can take the time to rename a mountain peak.
Quote from: roadman on August 31, 2015, 05:42:24 PM
Glad our President has the affairs of the country so well in hand that he can take the time to rename a mountain peak.
Isn't that a little like saying people in South Carolina must have all their pressing problems solved if they have the free time to protest a flag?
It's just Denali. You don't say Mount K2.
This decision (which is a nice gesture for the Alaskan people) has now sparked discussions about other mountains, including Mount Rainier in my own backyard. Rainier vs. Tahoma...I'd prefer the first because it sounds better and having to rename the things named for Mount Rainier instead to Tahoma (such as Rainier Valley, Rainier Avenue, and Rainier Beach) would duplicate things named for the city of Tacoma.
Well, this has been ongoing since 1975, the Congressman who has been battling it left in 2009. The name originated as a joke...two people were arguing, one guy loved gold, so did the then Canidate McKinley. so he named it after a gold lover to spite a silver lover. It's like someone naming a newly discovered moon "Trump Moon" to spite someone who supports another person.
People are going to call it whatever they want look at New York City. The road has been named Avenue of the Americas for so many decades, yet for years after the change you have New Yorkers still refusing to call it by its new name, so that NYCDOT had to have multiple names on street blades later on.
The same for MA 128 and I-93 in the Boston Area. Many will still call it Route 128 and never recognize the interstate number(s).
BTW, who can rename mountains and rivers anyway? Just curious if its congress or the states? And how would you rename the Mississippi River being in multiple states?
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2015, 05:57:50 PM
People are going to call it whatever they want look at New York City. The road has been named Avenue of the Americas for so many decades, yet for years after the change you have New Yorkers still refusing to call it by its new name, so that NYCDOT had to have multiple names on street blades later on.
The same for MA 128 and I-93 in the Boston Area. Many will still call it Route 128 and never recognize the interstate number(s).
BTW, who can rename mountains and rivers anyway? Just curious if its congress or the states? And how would you rename the Mississippi River being in multiple states?
Well, NYC is a bit of a special case, given the orthogonal naming system.
From what I understand, people call it Denali anyway in Alaska, so I think it'll stick.
It's not "Mount Denali". Just "Denali".
And it's about time. Alaska's Congressional delegation (all-Republican now, and Republican-dominated at all relevant times) has been pushing this for four decades, only to be blocked by Ohio Congresscritters. Besides, almost everybody up there called it "Denali", except when compelled to begrudgingly use the official name.
No offense to Pres. McKinley (who at least got his face on the $500 bill, back when dollars were made of gold), but the renaming of Denali for him has long rankled Alaskans, not just the native peoples who first named the mountain. Like the former Wade Hampton census area renamed earlier this year, it was yet another example of non-Alaskan names foisted on the territory, then the state, from Outside (Alaskans' less complimentary term for "the lower 48").
My personal opinion is this is only be reported because Caitlyn Jenner is old news. The media loves to agitate us with something or another primarily to distract us from what we really need to hear.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2015, 05:57:50 PM
People are going to call it whatever they want look at New York City. The road has been named Avenue of the Americas for so many decades, yet for years after the change you have New Yorkers still refusing to call it by its new name, so that NYCDOT had to have multiple names on street blades later on.
The same for MA 128 and I-93 in the Boston Area. Many will still call it Route 128 and never recognize the interstate number(s).
Except you're citing new names people don't use. This is returning an old name that people
do use.
To some people it is a new name. All of my life its been McKinley and to some of the millenials it is even more so. Not many people are that informed these days, and even I did not know its original name until recently.
Being its been called Mount McKinley for years you get just used to it.
Honestly, at least in this part of the country (where I suspect more people have ties to Alaska), "Denali" has been the preferred nomenclature for years- Mt. McKinley has been located in Denali National Park since 1980. Given that the park has been called Denali and a good chunk of people already called the mountain Denali, Denali has definitely overtaken "McKinley" as what people say in the last decade or so.
Calling it Mt. McKinley never really caught on (unlike Mt. Rainier). If Ohio wants to memorialize President McKinley, let them name their own highest mountain after him, all 1500 feet of it.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 31, 2015, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: roadman on August 31, 2015, 05:42:24 PM
Glad our President has the affairs of the country so well in hand that he can take the time to rename a mountain peak.
Isn't that a little like saying people in South Carolina must have all their pressing problems solved if they have the free time to protest a flag?
Point taken. Forgive me for having a hard time with government (be at the Federal, state, or local level) engaging in the cheap politics of naming or renaming things. Especially when it's done by executive order or decree.
Quote from: Bruce on August 31, 2015, 05:50:41 PM
This decision has now sparked discussions about other mountains, including Mount Rainier in my own backyard. Rainier vs. Tahoma.
Wait, "Tahoma"? Huh, so that's where the font gets its name from.
When I first read this story I was surprised to learn that Denali wasn't already the official name. I thought that change had been made years ago. I'll tell you this, though: everyone in the northeast knows it as Mount McKinley and is likely to continue calling it such for quite some time.
An interesting note: "Denali" apparently literally just means "the big one" in the local native language. So it's actually a quite generic name.
Quote from: kkt on August 31, 2015, 07:25:17 PM
Calling it Mt. McKinley never really caught on (unlike Mt. Rainier). If Ohio wants to memorialize President McKinley, let them name their own highest mountain after him, all 1500 feet of it.
What, Campbell Hill (outside Bellefontaine)?
Just saw pictures of it on Wikipedia. It looks like a regular hill behind a school.
I was rather amused to hear some woman being interviewed on NBC Nightly News tonight saying now it'll forever be called Denali. Who's to say some future president or governor or foreign power won't change it again?
While I've always called it Denali, I do sort of wonder what name the people who objected to calling it Mt. McKinley use when they refer to the mountain commonly known as Everest.
Quote from: roadman on August 31, 2015, 07:28:07 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 31, 2015, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: roadman on August 31, 2015, 05:42:24 PM
Glad our President has the affairs of the country so well in hand that he can take the time to rename a mountain peak.
Isn't that a little like saying people in South Carolina must have all their pressing problems solved if they have the free time to protest a flag?
Point taken. Forgive me for having a hard time with government (be at the Federal, state, or local level) engaging in the cheap politics of naming or renaming things. Especially when it's done by executive order or decree.
How about Niggerskull Mountain in North Carolina? There was a bill in the General Assembly about 12 years ago to rename seven places in the western part of the state whose names included that word. To the extent the old names had any legal status, I guess it's hard to object to that bill.
Mount Rainier was temporarily renamed once before (as a joke): http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/2014/02/01/mount-rainier-renamed-mount-seattle-seahawks-for-super-bowl-xlviii/
GM paid the DNC millions for the naming rights, Toyota will soon so the same in getting Ranier changed to TAKOMA.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 31, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I'll tell you this, though: everyone in the northeast knows it as Mount McKinley and is likely to continue calling it such for quite some time.
Baloney. People were taught about the Denali/Mount McKinley naming mess when I was in high school in the Northeast.
Quote from: Rothman on August 31, 2015, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 31, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I'll tell you this, though: everyone in the northeast knows it as Mount McKinley and is likely to continue calling it such for quite some time.
Baloney. People were taught about the Denali/Mount McKinley naming mess when I was in high school in the Northeast.
Eh, when was this? I would have never heard the name "Denali" before had I not learned about it on my own time. I graduated from high school in 2005.
Quote from: Rothman on August 31, 2015, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 31, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I'll tell you this, though: everyone in the northeast knows it as Mount McKinley and is likely to continue calling it such for quite some time.
Baloney. People were taught about the Denali/Mount McKinley naming mess when I was in high school in the Northeast.
You mean you were taught it in your specific high school. I don't think you can speak for the entire Northeast. If I was ever taught it, I don't recall it. Then again, McKinley hasn't exactly been a conversation piece amongst family, friends, bartenders, checkout line standees, and doctor office waiting rooms in the 22 years I've been out of school either.
I really don't remember any discussion of it being anything other than Mt. McKinley when I was growing up. The answer to the trivia question was always Mt. McKinley. Wonder what Alex Trebek would accept. The Belgian Congo, Siam and Peking used to grace world maps produced in America. We've got to stop calling things by the names the locals want to use. Please tell me I don't need to type (sarc)...
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 31, 2015, 10:05:25 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 31, 2015, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 31, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I'll tell you this, though: everyone in the northeast knows it as Mount McKinley and is likely to continue calling it such for quite some time.
Baloney. People were taught about the Denali/Mount McKinley naming mess when I was in high school in the Northeast.
If I was ever taught it, I don't recall it. Then again, McKinley hasn't exactly been a conversation piece amongst family, friends, bartenders, checkout line standees, and doctor office waiting rooms in the 22 years I've been out of school either.
Agreed. Until this news story I had completely forgotten where this geographical feature even was. If it was something closer to me (geographically or psychologically) the name would matter more, but I can see how this could be a point of contention for some (as the Sears Tower and the Marquette Warriors are to me).
I don't ever remember the mountain being mentioned, by any name, when I was in school, unless it came up in some kind of trivia competition. The teachers would have gone by whatever the maps said, though, and there would not have been any discussion of there being any possibility of there being some other name.
Political correctness did not exactly run rampant when I was a kid, of course. I'm pretty sure I remember a grade-school teacher showing a filmstrip version of "Tikki Tikki Tembo." You try that in public school today and you'll be fired within hours.
Quote from: Rothman on August 31, 2015, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 31, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I'll tell you this, though: everyone in the northeast knows it as Mount McKinley and is likely to continue calling it such for quite some time.
Baloney. People were taught about the Denali/Mount McKinley naming mess when I was in high school in the Northeast.
My high-quality primary/secondary education in the Northeast in the '90s and early '00s referred to it as Mt. McKinley exclusively.
Quote from: briantroutman on August 31, 2015, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 31, 2015, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 31, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
I'll tell you this, though: everyone in the northeast knows it as Mount McKinley and is likely to continue calling it such for quite some time.
Baloney. People were taught about the Denali/Mount McKinley naming mess when I was in high school in the Northeast.
My high-quality primary/secondary education in the Northeast in the '90s and early '00s referred to it as Mt. McKinley exclusively.
I would say that since the 1990s "Denali" has been very common. Any television shows, travel books, or magazine articles I've seen about it since that time primarily use "Denali" to the point that I didn't know it wasn't already renamed.
Hell, GM has been using the name on a truck since at least 2002. This is not a mystery.
Reminds me if Cape Canaveral being Cape Kennedy, never really caught on.
http://www.usgs.gov/blogs/features/usgs_top_story/old-name-restored-to-nations-highest-peak/
Salient points: Naming features is the domain of Board of Geographic Names and Secretary of the Interior. The former has been blocked from acting by Congress, until the latter intervened. This is not happening on the President's initiative, but with his blessing.
I am not calling it anything but Mount McKinnley just like the Chicago people still call the Willis Tower the Sears Tower. Call it what you want, a rose by another name is still a rose as the old cliche goes. Let Obama do his thing, he can call it like he wants just like some people call him a POS instead of President Obama. That still does not change who he is. Just like some name of a mountain peak is still going to be the same.
BTW each language anyway calls the mountains what they say just like we call Warsaw in Poland Warsaw even though in Polski its Warsawza pronounced Va- Sha- Va in Poland. Do the Poles get mad we do not call the city the name that we give it? Do the Italians get mad when we call Roma the name Rome? What about the day of the week called Sunday? People in Mexico call it Domingo does anyone get into a war over what name to call the first day of the week?
Of course when a controversial figure is involved in the naming of something it becomes so major of a topic. No moral law is broken whether its Denali or Mount McKinnley or even Mount Wright after the Obama's former pastor!
It will always be Mt. McKinley to me.
It's not my fault those that were only taught that it was Mount McKinley went to substandard high schools. :D
Duke said "everyone" in the Northeast only knows it as Mount McKinley. That's just not true.
Quote from: jwolfer on August 31, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Reminds me if Cape Canaveral being Cape Kennedy, never really caught on.
Istanbul was Constantinople.
It will always be Большая Гора to me.
The funny thing is, outside Ohio, does anyone have any strong feelings about William McKinley? Is every president, and every assassinated politician a hero?
"Mount McKinley" feels like a political version of naming rights, with as much public acceptance.
This is pretty consistent with worldwide trends of the reversal of colonial or political names imposed over ancient ones. I think people nevertheless hold onto sentimentality for what's familiar to them because that's a natural part of finding a sense of order in the world.
Its not only assissinated Presidents that are heroes. Bill Clinton received a blow job from Monica Lewinski and every post hippie liberal considered him to be a hero just for that particular act Then some consider Obama to be a hero for the things hes either done or not have done.
All I know is that a lot of people have been used to a name for over a century and now someone on a whim decides to change it. Even if Bush, especially him I should say, decided to change a name of a landmark that was changed years ago, you would also hear an argument as well. Maybe from the other side of the aisle, but nonetheless another argument.
That is why I hate politics so much period. Too much us and them and not enough togetherness.
QuoteBill Clinton received a blow job from Monica Lewinski and every post hippie liberal considered him to be a hero just for that particular act
Name five people who consider him to be a hero just for that particular act.
Someone could discover something, give it a name, and people will complain about it. Or find an alternate meaning. Or claim that the name is derogatory if you swap out some letters for others, add or subtract some other letters, then scramble them. People complain, and find reasons to complain, then rile everyone else up about it. It's what they do.
Considering this change has been in the works for a good portion of 2 decades, it wasn't exactly changed on a whim. And the people complaining about it are probably similar to my views...they haven't even given the mountain itself any thought in years, but now feel that the name absolutely can't be changed for (name your excuse here).
Old Dixie Highway (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/local-govt-politics/riviera-beach-city-council-votes-to-rename-old-dix/nnNCX/) is being renamed Barack Obama Highway. I'm sure someone will get their knickers in a knot over that. :pan:
Quote from: roadman65 on September 01, 2015, 09:08:07 AMAll I know is that a lot of people have been used to a name for over a century and now someone on a whim decides to change it.
If you were paying attention to the last day, forty years, or century of discussion, you'd realize it is not "on a whim."
All your arguments apply better to the renaming from Denali to Mount McKinley better than they do the other way around.
QuoteThat is why I hate politics so much period. Too much us and them and not enough togetherness.
Togetherness requires seeing the bigger picture, not just what one is used to.
(https://whyweprotest.net/attachments/3paln-gif.151137/)
Considering that GMC has a Denali trim line for about all of its models, it'll only be a matter of time before we see a new commercial filmed on the actual Mt. Denali, or at least in front of it. It sounds far more majestic and grander than Mt. McKinley, IMHO.
I'm generally opposed to renaming things for PC reasons, but despite whatever the political reasons it's being done and done right now, I like the change here. When in Alaska 14 years ago, I am not sure I heard it called "Mt. McKinley" at all. That's the name I remembered and used it at least some of the time when I captioned my pictures, but I've found myself calling it "Denali" ever since.
I'd kind of prefer if naming of major things (mountains, airports, even bridges or schools) after someone aren't done until some significant time after their death, to make sure the person's accomplishments stand the test of time. I can't say I know a lot about President McKinley and his accomplishments, or if they had significant impact on Alaska. But I have to wonder if for some reason Denali never had been Mount McKinley and the push now was to name it in honor of some person, if there would be any support at all for naming it after him.
You know, the relatively recent renamings of NYC bridges and tunnels from their well-known names bothers me a lot more than this one ever will.
I guess you-know-who needed to test his pen and phone to make sure they hadn't run out of ink or the battery hadn't run down, respectively. :bigass:
Quote from: hbelkins on September 01, 2015, 12:46:01 PM
I guess you-know-who needed to test his pen and phone to make sure they hadn't run out of ink or the battery hadn't run down, respectively. :bigass:
Voldemort? What?
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2015, 07:20:10 PM
To some people it is a new name. All of my life its been McKinley and to some of the millenials it is even more so. Not many people are that informed these days, and even I did not know its original name until recently.
Being its been called Mount McKinley for years you get just used to it.
Denali sounds better than McKinley though IMO :nod:
http://www.usgs.gov/blogs/features/usgs_top_story/old-name-restored-to-nations-highest-peak/?from=title
USGS's take on it.
https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/secretary-jewell-announces-nation%E2%80%99s-highest-peak-will-now-bear-native
USDI press release regarding
I've learned decades ago that there is something that helps us turn off the tunnel vision that schools place upon us. That's call critical thinking. Think outside the box. Because someone says so doesn't mean it's so. To think that everyone says "niegh" is a bunch of bs. You may, but I don't call it Mt. McKinley.
I've seen someone say every mountain's name in the English language has the word "mount" as part of it. Far from the truth. Tagging mount onto Pike's Peak sounds a bit overboard.
For what it's worth, my school and people around me here in Seattle have always called it Denali. It's also advertised as such (though mostly in reference to the national park) by Alaskan cruises that leave Seattle and Bellingham.
Quote from: US71 on September 01, 2015, 08:12:23 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 31, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Reminds me if Cape Canaveral being Cape Kennedy, never really caught on.
Istanbul was Constantinople.
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way
Even Old Bridge, NJ was Madison at one time.
The Florida's Turnpike was once the Sunshine State Parkway.
Things change, but not the substance. We can call a place, object, or thing whatever we want regardless of its proper name.
IMO opinion that mountain can have two names or even three for that matter. How about the Denali McKinnley Peak?
Quote from: Bruce on September 01, 2015, 02:03:07 PM
For what it's worth, my school and people around me here in Seattle have always called it Denali. It's also advertised as such (though mostly in reference to the national park) by Alaskan cruises that leave Seattle and Bellingham.
Seconded. Denali is the predominant term here in the NW. In fact, for a long time whenever someone mentioned "Mt McKinley", I had to go look it up because I couldn't remember where it was. I just wasn't taught "McKinley".
Furthermore, just so people know what it feels like, the former president will be known for the next hundred years as "William Denali."
Hartsfield- Jackson in Atlanta. I do not know the first names of whom those two individuals are that the airport in Atlanta was named for, but rather than rid Hartsfield of the airport name they just added on the second name.
Then there is the Hoover Dam Bypass that has two names given to the rainbow arch bridge. Tilghman and O' Malley both with separate first names.
Quote from: kkt on September 01, 2015, 12:53:10 PMVoldemort?
Don't say the name!
Oh wait, he's been dead for a little over 17 years and James Potter started at Hogwarts today? Oh, then speak Tom Riddle's nickname at will.
Speaking of which, Kings Cross station is technically 'London Kings Cross' and has been for a few years. Over the road is St Pancras station. Sorry, I mean London St Pancras International. No one but official stuff (announcements, signs, train indicators) call London's mainline termini by their proper name. It's always 'Waterloo' or 'Liverpool Street'. 'London Bridge' is the only one with London in its name (and the only one that didn't have London dumped on it - they drew the line at 'London London Bridge'!).
Quote from: english si on September 01, 2015, 03:42:13 PM
Speaking of which, Kings Cross station is technically 'London Kings Cross' and has been for a few years. Over the road is St Pancras station. Sorry, I mean London St Pancras International. No one but official stuff (announcements, signs, train indicators) call London's mainline termini by their proper name. It's always 'Waterloo' or 'Liverpool Street'. 'London Bridge' is the only one with London in its name (and the only one that didn't have London dumped on it - they drew the line at 'London London Bridge'!).
Reagan National airport in my area is officially "Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport". Some busybody Congresscritter insisted that the airport, and the Metro system, use the full name -- no shorthand or abbreviations. I've heard train operators slowly speak out the full name, with as much sarcasm as they could muster, as trains approached the airport stop.
Most people just call it "National" or "Reagan National". Laws don't matter as much as some lawmakers might prefer.
Here's the problem: the name Mount McKinley has stuck with people for years and years. I think it's too late to change it.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:03:43 PM
Here's the problem: the name Mount McKinley has stuck with people for years and years. I think it's too late to change it.
That's not true in all parts of the US. Denali is the predominant term in the NW and Alaska, so the change will be easy. Can't speak for the rest of the country, nor Canada, but it's far from "late".
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:03:43 PM
Here's the problem: the name Mount McKinley has stuck with people for years and years. I think it's too late to change it.
Leningrad stuck with people for years and years, too.
Live long enough, and you learn that all these things are fluid.
Denali was the name for a lot longer than McKinley was.
I don't think I even heard the name Denali prior to the announcement a couple days ago.
Fun fact: the name Mount McKinley came from when McKinley was the Republican candidate for president and was originally a joke intended as a snub to Democratic candidate and silver standard advocate William Jennings Bryan.
Jim Thorpe PA, the man never lived there, Native Name was Mauch Chunk.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2015, 06:14:26 PM
My personal opinion is this is only be reported because Caitlyn Jenner is old news. The media loves to...
Did you ever think there's actually a whole lot of things happening in an ever-changing world, and that it's not all about your interests? Twenty years ago, you had a handful of media outlets and the local news. Now you actually have more to choose from, but like anything with myriad choices, some items garner just more interest than others.
Not to sound like a hipster, but if hadn't been absent on the day we had to choose a National Park for 6th Grade General Science class, I'd never have known there was a Denali National Park, either. (Since every other state choice was taken by her two classes the day before.)
McKinley is a fine name for a bridge, but it does not have the right...ring to it for a mountain.
Quote from: roadman on August 31, 2015, 07:28:07 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 31, 2015, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: roadman on August 31, 2015, 05:42:24 PM
Glad our President has the affairs of the country so well in hand that he can take the time to rename a mountain peak.
Isn't that a little like saying people in South Carolina must have all their pressing problems solved if they have the free time to protest a flag?
Point taken. Forgive me for having a hard time with government (be at the Federal, state, or local level) engaging in the cheap politics of naming or renaming things. Especially when it's done by executive order or decree.
It's not 'renaming' as much as 'de-naming'.
Quote from: Brandon on September 01, 2015, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: US71 on September 01, 2015, 08:12:23 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 31, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Reminds me if Cape Canaveral being Cape Kennedy, never really caught on.
Istanbul was Constantinople.
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way
That's no body's business but the Turks
Quote from: jwolfer on September 01, 2015, 08:47:15 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 01, 2015, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: US71 on September 01, 2015, 08:12:23 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 31, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Reminds me if Cape Canaveral being Cape Kennedy, never really caught on.
Istanbul was Constantinople.
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way
That's no body's business but the Turks
Quote from: roadman65 on September 01, 2015, 09:08:07 AM
Its not only assissinated Presidents that are heroes. Bill Clinton received a blow job from Monica Lewinski and every post hippie liberal considered him to be a hero just for that particular act Then some consider Obama to be a hero for the things hes either done or not have done.
All I know is that a lot of people have been used to a name for over a century and now someone on a whim decides to change it. Even if Bush, especially him I should say, decided to change a name of a landmark that was changed years ago, you would also hear an argument as well. Maybe from the other side of the aisle, but nonetheless another argument.
That is why I hate politics so much period. Too much us and them and not enough togetherness.
That's hilarious.
Quote from: corco on September 01, 2015, 09:32:54 AM
QuoteBill Clinton received a blow job from Monica Lewinski and every post hippie liberal considered him to be a hero just for that particular act
Name five people who consider him to be a hero just for that particular act.
The minute I hear 'liberal', it's pretty much a given that you are the Babylon.
I remember on my old personal globe, it was called "Mt. McKinley (Denali)", and that's what I've always known it as.
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 01, 2015, 08:57:24 PM
Quote from: corco on September 01, 2015, 09:32:54 AM
QuoteBill Clinton received a blow job from Monica Lewinski and every post hippie liberal considered him to be a hero just for that particular act
Name five people who consider him to be a hero just for that particular act.
The minute I hear 'liberal', it's pretty much a given that you are the Babylon.
I lived in the day when that scandal came out and when he was acquitted for his ordeal, many people at the time who were pro sex (meaning the sexual revolution supporters which came from the Vietnam war protests) were happy not because he was allowed to stay in office, but because they felt that oral sex finally got accepted and that we as a culture should accept open relationships like the Clintons have.
I had to deal with them at work, at a club I once belonged too. Yes, people were saying "all right" and cheering him on for able to be allowed to get away from the taboo that religion has placed on sex before marriage and all the stuff that many hate the church's teaching on for decades. As far as the use of the term liberals goes its a group that protests against tradition as conservatives are those who protect what is established. As we know there are conservatives, liberals, moderates, and other inbetween words to describe people. The Hippie movement was big and it did a lot for society as many things did change over the years like the removal of censorship and the latest same sex marriage and the removal of the mental illness that was placed on gay lifestyles at one time!
This thread seems to point out what Bandit Darvil said in Smokey And The Bandit to his girlfriend Carrie, "it all depends on what part of the country you are standing in is to how dumb you are." It seems we all believe in what we are taught in our own area as the norm not realizing that other areas teach something completely different like the name of a mountain.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 01, 2015, 10:10:12 PM
many people at the time who were pro sex (meaning the sexual revolution supporters which came from the Vietnam war protests)
:rofl:
That would make you...anti-sex?
:rofl:
Quote from: Rothman on September 01, 2015, 07:01:46 AM
It's not my fault those that were only taught that it was Mount McKinley went to substandard high schools. :D
Duke said "everyone" in the Northeast only knows it as Mount McKinley. That's just not true.
Only if one interprets the word "everyone" literally, which usually is not the intent with statements of this sort and certainly was not the intent here. We're talking about demographics, not laws of physics.
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 01, 2015, 01:32:50 PM
I've seen someone say every mountain's name in the English language has the word "mount" as part of it. Far from the truth. Tagging mount onto Pike's Peak sounds a bit overboard.
What I actually said:
Quotewe name mountains in the form "Mount __", "__ Mountain", or something of that sort.
(emphasis added)
"__ Peak" would fall into the "something of that sort" category. As would "__ Hill", "__ Butte", "__ Mesa", "__ Ridge", etc. Listing every possibility would have been cumbersome.
The point I was arguing is that "Denali" does not follow standard English naming conventions since it lacks any accompanying prefix or suffix word identifying the nature of the physical feature it describes. This is more of an OCD complaint than anything else, much in the same way that we all love to hate the numbering of I-99 and I-238.
It wasn't a matter of pro-sex or anti-sex, it was a matter of sex being nobody's business but the people involved. The Republicans spent, what, 40 million dollars that was supposed to be investigating any possible illegality in the Clinton's land deals, and all they could find out was that he got a blow job?
Quote from: Duke87 on September 01, 2015, 11:30:17 PM
What I actually said:
Quotewe name mountains in the form "Mount __", "__ Mountain", or something of that sort.
(emphasis added)
"__ Peak" would fall into the "something of that sort" category. As would "__ Hill", "__ Butte", "__ Mesa", "__ Ridge", etc. Listing every possibility would have been cumbersome.
The point I was arguing is that "Denali" does not follow standard English naming conventions since it lacks any accompanying prefix or suffix word identifying the nature of the physical feature it describes. This is more of an OCD complaint than anything else, much in the same way that we all love to hate the numbering of I-99 and I-238.
K2
Quote from: Duke87 on September 01, 2015, 11:30:17 PM
The point I was arguing is that "Denali" does not follow standard English naming conventions
Good news: Denali is an aboriginal word. There is no requirement for it to fit standard English naming conventions.
Geez, first the name, then the next thing you know they're gonna decide it's shorter than we always thought!
Oh, wait... (http://www.usgs.gov/blogs/features/usgs_top_story/new-elevation-for-nations-highest-peak/?from=title)
iPhone
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 01, 2015, 08:16:08 PM
McKinley is a fine name for a bridge, but it does not have the right...ring to it for a mountain.
Ironically, the only major "McKinley Bridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinley_Bridge)" in the U.S. isn't named for the (future) President either. (https://books.google.com/books?id=6--OtYFBZCIC&pg=PA170&lpg=PA170&dq=%22william+b+mckinley%22+bridge&source=bl&ots=WY_vBuJaW1&sig=mbagHD-xKk3W18O0nSrlU_71Doo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAmoVChMI5-SK6_7YxwIVh8yACh3huQZj#v=onepage&q=%22william%20b%20mckinley%22%20bridge&f=false)
Quote from: kkt on September 01, 2015, 11:38:26 PM
It wasn't a matter of pro-sex or anti-sex, it was a matter of sex being nobody's business but the people involved. The Republicans spent, what, 40 million dollars that was supposed to be investigating any possible illegality in the Clinton's land deals, and all they could find out was that he got a blow job?
Nice simplistic frequently-used liberal talking point, but that's not what happened at all. Clinton had been sued for sexual harassment by an Arkansas state employee for an incident that happened when he was governor. During depositions for the case, Clinton committed perjury when asked about his involvement or activities with other subordinate employees. The impeachment wasn't about sex, it was about perjury and obstruction of justice.
It should also be noted that he had his license to practice law suspended over that as well.
Quote from: corco on September 02, 2015, 12:22:31 AM
K2
Is not located in an English-speaking country, so English language naming convention does not apply. I don't complain about Aconcagua Either. :)
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 12:25:18 AM
Denali is an aboriginal word.
As are a lot words used in names that still follow English convention. Like Lake Okeechobee or Connecticut River.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 02, 2015, 09:28:40 PM
Quote from: corco on September 02, 2015, 12:22:31 AM
K2
Is not located in an English-speaking country, so English language naming convention does not apply. I don't complain about Aconcagua Either. :)
It was, however, named by an Englishman. And Pakistan's second official language is English.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 01, 2015, 10:10:12 PM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 01, 2015, 08:57:24 PM
Quote from: corco on September 01, 2015, 09:32:54 AM
QuoteBill Clinton received a blow job from Monica Lewinski and every post hippie liberal considered him to be a hero just for that particular act
Name five people who consider him to be a hero just for that particular act.
The minute I hear 'liberal', it's pretty much a given that you are the Babylon.
I lived in the day when that scandal came out and when he was acquitted for his ordeal, many people at the time who were pro sex (meaning the sexual revolution supporters which came from the Vietnam war protests) were happy not because he was allowed to stay in office, but because they felt that oral sex finally got accepted and that we as a culture should accept open relationships like the Clintons have.
I had to deal with them at work, at a club I once belonged too. Yes, people were saying "all right" and cheering him on for able to be allowed to get away from the taboo that religion has placed on sex before marriage and all the stuff that many hate the church's teaching on for decades. As far as the use of the term liberals goes its a group that protests against tradition as conservatives are those who protect what is established. As we know there are conservatives, liberals, moderates, and other inbetween words to describe people. The Hippie movement was big and it did a lot for society as many things did change over the years like the removal of censorship and the latest same sex marriage and the removal of the mental illness that was placed on gay lifestyles at one time!
This thread seems to point out what Bandit Darvil said in Smokey And The Bandit to his girlfriend Carrie, "it all depends on what part of the country you are standing in is to how dumb you are." It seems we all believe in what we are taught in our own area as the norm not realizing that other areas teach something completely different like the name of a mountain.
Well, that was rambly. Whatever. Any opinion I have of Clinton, or any other politician is based on the policies they enacted. His actions with another consenting adult, however indiscreet, don't enter into it; never mind making him some sort of hero of the sexual revolution.
Quote from: Rothman on September 01, 2015, 11:13:41 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 01, 2015, 10:10:12 PM
many people at the time who were pro sex (meaning the sexual revolution supporters which came from the Vietnam war protests)
:rofl:
That would make you...anti-sex?
:rofl:
As
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 01, 2015, 08:57:24 PM
Quote from: corco on September 01, 2015, 09:32:54 AM
QuoteBill Clinton received a blow job from Monica Lewinski and every post hippie liberal considered him to be a hero just for that particular act
Name five people who consider him to be a hero just for that particular act.
The minute I hear 'liberal', it's pretty much a given that you are the Babylon.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 01, 2015, 09:40:10 PM
As a general rule, I'm pro-sex. But I'm not 'liberal', and not overly fond of hippies.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 02, 2015, 09:28:40 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 12:25:18 AM
Denali is an aboriginal word.
As are a lot words used in names that still follow English convention. Like Lake Okeechobee or Connecticut River.
These are the official languages of Alaska:
English, Inupiaq, Siberian Yupik, Central Alaskan Yup'ik, Alutiiq, Unangan, Dena'ina, Deg Xinag, Holikachuk,
Koyukon, Upper Kuskokwim, Gwich'in, Tanana, Upper Tanana, Tanacross, Hän, Ahtna, Eyak, Tlingit, Haida, Tsimshian
I've highlighted the language that Denali is of. There is no reason they should have to follow "English" naming conventions when Koyukon is as much of an official language as English. As well, the argument cannot be extended to the federal level as English is not an official language in the US.
Quote from: kkt on September 01, 2015, 11:38:26 PM
It wasn't a matter of pro-sex or anti-sex, it was a matter of sex being nobody's business but the people involved. The Republicans spent, what, 40 million dollars that was supposed to be investigating any possible illegality in the Clinton's land deals, and all they could find out was that he got a blow job?
40 mil for a hummer, 40 zillion(on credit) for a useless war. And a few bucks on a Made in the USA Gestapo. Still trying to work out how any of this is relevant to my interests.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 02, 2015, 05:26:22 PM
Quote from: kkt on September 01, 2015, 11:38:26 PM
It wasn't a matter of pro-sex or anti-sex, it was a matter of sex being nobody's business but the people involved. The Republicans spent, what, 40 million dollars that was supposed to be investigating any possible illegality in the Clinton's land deals, and all they could find out was that he got a blow job?
Nice simplistic frequently-used liberal talking point, but that's not what happened at all. Clinton had been sued for sexual harassment by an Arkansas state employee for an incident that happened when he was governor. During depositions for the case, Clinton committed perjury when asked about his involvement or activities with other subordinate employees. The impeachment wasn't about sex, it was about perjury and obstruction of justice.
It should also be noted that he had his license to practice law suspended over that as well.
You are both wrong and right, although I'd say more wrong than anything else. Yes, the independent counsel Starr was investigating a number of accusations regarding Bill Clinton (none of which have ever been substantiated), but he came across information about a sexual encounter with Lewinsky. He decided to ask Clinton about this - this specifically - during depositions.
It was absolutely improper to ask during a deposition about consensual sexual activity, regardless of whether it is morally abhorrent. If Clinton perjured, it's because he was set up. You're right that it wasn't about sex. It was about politics. They attempted to get him to perjure about something they had no business asking him about. His consensual sexual activity was none of their business, and they conjured up the perjury charge.
/sorry I went off topic, but I didn't want to let HB get away with that.
BTW - I support the restoration of Denali's original and rightful name.
Without getting too far into politics- I am a fan of Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton receiving head from a White House intern is absolutely not conduct that is befitting of the President of the United States and I think that's a significant black mark against him. From my perspective, Bill Clinton's actual accomplishments that are directly related to his duties as a President outweigh that, and so I like Bill Clinton.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 02, 2015, 05:26:22 PM
Quote from: kkt on September 01, 2015, 11:38:26 PM
It wasn't a matter of pro-sex or anti-sex, it was a matter of sex being nobody's business but the people involved. The Republicans spent, what, 40 million dollars that was supposed to be investigating any possible illegality in the Clinton's land deals, and all they could find out was that he got a blow job?
Nice simplistic frequently-used liberal talking point, but that's not what happened at all. Clinton had been sued for sexual harassment by an Arkansas state employee for an incident that happened when he was governor. During depositions for the case, Clinton committed perjury when asked about his involvement or activities with other subordinate employees. The impeachment wasn't about sex, it was about perjury and obstruction of justice.
It should also be noted that he had his license to practice law suspended over that as well.
So the impeachment was for something that happened prior to his presidency. Glad to know the 'fiscally responsible' crew were spending the money I earn for such important issues.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 11:23:15 PM
These are the official languages of Alaska:
{long ass list}
Wait, seriously? *googles*
Huh, it appears the state went and made all those languages official last year.
See what you started, Obama?
http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/18438045-95/online-petition-asks-white-house-to-rename-mt-washington (http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/18438045-95/online-petition-asks-white-house-to-rename-mt-washington)
Quote from: Duke87 on September 03, 2015, 01:31:42 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 11:23:15 PM
These are the official languages of Alaska:
{long ass list}
Wait, seriously? *googles*
Huh, it appears the state went and made all those languages official last year.
Not even a token nod to Russian.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 03, 2015, 07:25:05 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 03, 2015, 01:31:42 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 11:23:15 PM
These are the official languages of Alaska:
{long ass list}
Wait, seriously? *googles*
Huh, it appears the state went and made all those languages official last year.
Not even a token nod to Russian.
There are some small Russian-speaking communities in Alaska, especially on the west side of the Kenai Peninsula. And there are quite a few Russian Orthodox churches scattered all along Alaska's south coast, from Unalaska to Sitka.
Certainly there are many more Alaskans who speak Russian than Eyak, one of Alaska's official languages, which became officially dead after the last native speaker of that language passed away (though since some guy from France later inexplicably took up Eyak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyak_language), and is trying to bring it back, it was upgraded to "dormant").
Quote from: oscar on September 03, 2015, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 03, 2015, 07:25:05 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 03, 2015, 01:31:42 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 11:23:15 PM
These are the official languages of Alaska:
{long ass list}
Wait, seriously? *googles*
Huh, it appears the state went and made all those languages official last year.
Not even a token nod to Russian.
There are some small Russian-speaking communities in Alaska, especially on the west side of the Kenai Peninsula. And there are quite a few Russian Orthodox churches scattered all along Alaska's south coast, from Unalaska to Sitka.
Certainly there are many more Alaskans who speak Russian than Eyak, one of Alaska's official languages, which is officially dead now that the last person who spoke that language passed away.
I wonder if he talked to himself a lot in those final years. It's not like others would know what he was saying. :evilgrin:
Quote from: oscar on September 03, 2015, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 03, 2015, 07:25:05 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 03, 2015, 01:31:42 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 02, 2015, 11:23:15 PM
These are the official languages of Alaska:
{long ass list}
Wait, seriously? *googles*
Huh, it appears the state went and made all those languages official last year.
Not even a token nod to Russian.
There are some small Russian-speaking communities in Alaska, especially on the west side of the Kenai Peninsula. And there are quite a few Russian Orthodox churches scattered all along Alaska's south coast, from Unalaska to Sitka.
Certainly there are many more Alaskans who speak Russian than Eyak, one of Alaska's official languages, which became officially dead after the last native speaker of that language passed away (though since some guy from France later inexplicably took up Eyak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyak_language), and is trying to bring it back, it was upgraded to "dormant").
There is an Orthodox church around here called St. Herman of Alaska, a small reminder of that state's Russian past.
Quote from: corco on September 02, 2015, 12:22:31 AM
K2
You sank my battleship!
Seriously, I think that is a translingually weird name for a mountain, and I'm going to read about its origin now...
...fair enough.
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 03, 2015, 12:57:57 AM
So the impeachment was for something that happened prior to his presidency. Glad to know the 'fiscally responsible' crew were spending the money I earn for such important issues.
No, and I know that you know that. His perjury and obstruction of justice occurred while he was president. The incident that precipitated the court case occurred prior to his presidency, but his impeachable offense took place while he was president.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 03, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 03, 2015, 12:57:57 AM
So the impeachment was for something that happened prior to his presidency. Glad to know the 'fiscally responsible' crew were spending the money I earn for such important issues.
No, and I know that you know that. His perjury and obstruction of justice occurred while he was president. The incident that precipitated the court case occurred prior to his presidency, but his impeachable offense took place while he was president.
...which, in the end, went kaput. The whole effort was a waste.
Hehehehe... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mabJPTS8lvw)
Quote from: hbelkins on September 03, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 03, 2015, 12:57:57 AM
So the impeachment was for something that happened prior to his presidency. Glad to know the 'fiscally responsible' crew were spending the money I earn for such important issues.
No, and I know that you know that. His perjury and obstruction of justice occurred while he was president. The incident that precipitated the court case occurred prior to his presidency, but his impeachable offense took place while he was president.
What obstruction of justice? He was covering up an affair between consenting adults, not a crime. Having had an affair, his only honorable course was to protect his partner. Not an impeachable offense, in my opinion and more importantly in the opinion of the Senate.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 03, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 03, 2015, 12:57:57 AM
So the impeachment was for something that happened prior to his presidency. Glad to know the 'fiscally responsible' crew were spending the money I earn for such important issues.
No, and I know that you know that. His perjury and obstruction of justice occurred while he was president. The incident that precipitated the court case occurred prior to his presidency, but his impeachable offense took place while he was president.
Yeah, and I probably care more about wax paper at this juncture.
Quote from: kkt on September 03, 2015, 05:17:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 03, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 03, 2015, 12:57:57 AM
So the impeachment was for something that happened prior to his presidency. Glad to know the 'fiscally responsible' crew were spending the money I earn for such important issues.
No, and I know that you know that. His perjury and obstruction of justice occurred while he was president. The incident that precipitated the court case occurred prior to his presidency, but his impeachable offense took place while he was president.
What obstruction of justice? He was covering up an affair between consenting adults, not a crime. Having had an affair, his only honorable course was to protect his partner. Not an impeachable offense, in my opinion and more importantly in the opinion of the Senate.
The crime was the perjury. Or is it OK for people to perjure themselves under oath? Such as the Glenview police officers who've been suspended for doing just that, perjury. If it's OK for President Clinton to commit perjury, then it's obviously OK for a police officer to commit it as well.
Quote from: Brandon on September 03, 2015, 06:43:42 PM
Quote from: kkt on September 03, 2015, 05:17:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 03, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on September 03, 2015, 12:57:57 AM
So the impeachment was for something that happened prior to his presidency. Glad to know the 'fiscally responsible' crew were spending the money I earn for such important issues.
No, and I know that you know that. His perjury and obstruction of justice occurred while he was president. The incident that precipitated the court case occurred prior to his presidency, but his impeachable offense took place while he was president.
What obstruction of justice? He was covering up an affair between consenting adults, not a crime. Having had an affair, his only honorable course was to protect his partner. Not an impeachable offense, in my opinion and more importantly in the opinion of the Senate.
The crime was the perjury. Or is it OK for people to perjure themselves under oath? Such as the Glenview police officers who've been suspended for doing just that, perjury. If it's OK for President Clinton to commit perjury, then it's obviously OK for a police officer to commit it as well.
Well said on that one.
My point about Bill Clinton was from what happened during the revolution started with the Vietnam War. Now in no way am I saying here that I am for modern pre-marital sex or old style wait till you are married relationships, but people did make it out to be about the sexual revolution. People who were on Clinton's side were saying it was the Right going after sex, while making out his acquittal to be a victory for that he won the right to have sex with whomever he pleases and whenever he pleases a big victory for the revolution. That is why I said he was hero as the actions of the people made the whole ordeal about the affair with Monica and not perjury like it was.
Back on topic, have any members of the Csolgosz family weighed in on the renaming?
Quote from: Rothman on September 03, 2015, 04:55:09 PM
..which, in the end, went kaput. The whole effort was a waste.
Because Trent Lott didn't have the gonads to proceed with a full-fledged trial, didn't allow introduction of evidence or sworn testimony, etc. The blue dress that Monica Lewinsky saved was factual proof that Clinton lied when he said under oath that he'd never had sex with a subordinate.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 04, 2015, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 03, 2015, 04:55:09 PM
..which, in the end, went kaput. The whole effort was a waste.
Because Trent Lott didn't have the gonads to proceed with a full-fledged trial, didn't allow introduction of evidence or sworn testimony, etc. The blue dress that Monica Lewinsky saved was factual proof that Clinton lied when he said under oath that he'd never had sex with a subordinate.
...because Trent Lott knew it was a waste. Dear heavens, spending all that money because he lied about his sex life. Perjury doesn't carry the strongest of sentences and would have been much ado and money spent without much to show for it in the end (e.g., Clinton would get a slapped wrist, worst case scenario).
At least we don't have to worry about that now.
What's fun is that I'd bet Clinton's approval numbers are still higher than any other former presidents'. :D
I bet Reagan got twice the blowjobs Clinton ever got. And most of them were from males.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 04, 2015, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 03, 2015, 04:55:09 PM
..which, in the end, went kaput. The whole effort was a waste.
Because Trent Lott didn't have the gonads to proceed with a full-fledged trial, didn't allow introduction of evidence or sworn testimony, etc. The blue dress that Monica Lewinsky saved was factual proof that Clinton lied when he said under oath that he'd never had sex with a subordinate.
That would still be circumstantial. Is it proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he lied? The fact that there was an argument over the definition of sex (and the definition of "is") indicates to me that it is not.
How in the name of Denali is this thread not locked yet??
In Denali We Trust?
Maybe we should rename Denali Mt. Clinton?
Quote from: kkt on September 04, 2015, 04:26:36 PM
Maybe we should rename Denali Mt. Clinton?
Nah, rename it Denial Mount Lint.
"Goodbye Mount McKinley?!?" - Does this mean that we can expect Elton John to do yet another bastardization revision of Candle in the Wind?
Quote from: roadman on September 04, 2015, 06:20:02 PM
"Goodbye Mount McKinley?!?" - Does this mean that we can expect Elton John to do yet another bastardization revision of Candle in the Wind?
I was thinking a new rendition of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road as the Elton John song when you said that.
Quote from: roadman on September 04, 2015, 06:20:02 PM
"Goodbye Mount McKinley?!?" - Does this mean that we can expect Elton John to do yet another bastardization revision of Candle in the Wind?
I really think "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" is a much better potential adaptation.
Ok, it's a good topic to discuss, but the political bull is getting out of hand. Locked.