Do you guys have some predictions for the 2021 nascar season?
I think
* Denny Hamlin will finally get his championship. He literally deserves this more than anybody.
* Bubba Wallace will get his first win, he's one of my picks for the daytona 500 as well.
* This is Kurt Busch's last season
* This is Ryan Newman's last season
* Alex Bowman and Chase Elliott will outdo the Penske cars
* Christopher Bell won't do the Joe Gibbs #20 justice. It's been going down since Matt Kenseth (my fave btw) left.
* I feel like Kyle Busch will be able to bounce back from his lackluster season.
I'm not going to waste time making any predictions because every single year I lose interest in NASCAR after like the 3rd race, when I realize that most of the tracks are really boring.
- TV ratings will fall another 10%.
- When/if open live gates resume, it will be hard to tell the difference.
- Comcast will pull the plug on NBCSN the week after the Olympics, if held, or earlier if not. Events on USA Network will reach new all time lows.
- No one at NASCAR management will do anything about these self-inflicted wounds.
Quote from: thspfc on February 13, 2021, 12:01:18 PM
I'm not going to waste time making any predictions because every single year I lose interest in NASCAR after like the 3rd race, when I realize that most of the tracks are really boring.
Not sure if you've noticed, but:
1 of the 2 Dover races has been moved to Nashville
Chicago's oval race has been moved to the road course at Road America, WI
One of Texas' oval races has been moved to the road course at Austin
The Indy oval race has been moved to the road course
The Fontana, CA oval race has been moved to the Daytona road course (due to COVID)
One of the Bristol races will be run on dirt.
Due to the increased number of road courses, I expect Chase Elliott to easily make it through to the Championship 4. I expect Denny Hamlin and Kevin Harvick there as well. I think the last spot will be between Joey Logano, Alex Bowman, Kyle Busch and Martin Truex, Jr.
I give Elliott the slight edge to repeat, but really any of the drivers I named would not surprise me as champion.
-Kurt Busch retires from a full-time career, but follows Jimmie Johnson's lead and goes racing in other series.
-Bubba Wallace wins a race before Kyle Larson, but Kyle has a better year overall.
-The road course races are the most exciting of the year.
-Final Four: Harvick, Elliott, Blaney, Kyle Busch.
NASCAR will have been dead two decades on the 18th of this month.
Dale Earnhardt and other top drivers (Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, Richard Petty, etc.) had the ear of Big Bill France. He listened and took heed of what they said.
I don't think Earnhardt would really approve of what NASCAR's current leadership is doing on the track in terms of rules changes, and off of the track in terms of how certain incidents are handled. There's one in particular that I sure don't approve of, which is why I slammed the door on NASCAR last spring.
If people keep making veiled references to politics, this thread will be locked. Keep it to racing.
Stuff like this...
https://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2016/4/21/11483470/nascar-fines-tony-stewart-safety-lug-nuts
If that had happened in 1996, and if it had been Earnhardt or Wallace or Darrell Waltrip saying it, there would have been no fine. Big Bill would have taken the comments under advisement. But two decades later, and after Earnhardt's death had led NASCAR to start emphasizing safety with renewed vigor, this took place.
Track attendance had been falling steadily, a combination of the economy and the on-track product. Now the TV ratings are tumbling. I'm not sure if the France offspring (Brian France and Lesa France Kennedy) are still running things or not, but whoever's in charge needs to take note. The Chase, stage racing, the "lucky dog" and no racing back to the flag ... if they were trying to attract new fans while maintaining the old ones, they failed in both efforts.
It doesn't help NASCAR that their fan base is extremely elderly at this point. Pretty much the majority of people I know who followed NASCAR aside from myself is dead or nearing the end of their lives. Pretty much NASCAR and motor racing in general at this point is the Buick of the sports world. I'm not sure what can be done at this point other than to take it back to a niche market.
As far as predictions, I don't follow the series anywhere as close I should to even come up with something relatively accurate. I usually catch about half the races now and read about the rest. The diversity in racing courses has me intrigued though.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2021, 11:23:15 PM
Stuff like this...
https://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2016/4/21/11483470/nascar-fines-tony-stewart-safety-lug-nuts
If that had happened in 1996, and if it had been Earnhardt or Wallace or Darrell Waltrip saying it, there would have been no fine. Big Bill would have taken the comments under advisement. But two decades later, and after Earnhardt's death had led NASCAR to start emphasizing safety with renewed vigor, this took place.
Track attendance had been falling steadily, a combination of the economy and the on-track product. Now the TV ratings are tumbling. I'm not sure if the France offspring (Brian France and Lesa France Kennedy) are still running things or not, but whoever's in charge needs to take note. The Chase, stage racing, the "lucky dog" and no racing back to the flag ... if they were trying to attract new fans while maintaining the old ones, they failed in both efforts.
I think Jim France (Bill Jr's younger brother) has been in charge since Brian's DUI arrest. Jim is also in charge of IMSA, which isn't declining.
At this point, NASCAR is relying on its expensive TV contracts with Fox and NBC. I believe that those will expire in 2024. It will be interesting to see what happens after that. Do Fox and NBC want them? Do they go to other networks for less money?
Some say that NASCAR’s downfall is due to them trying too hard to appeal to the “casual” fan, instead of catering to their hardcore lifers. I disagree. That business model has been successful for many sports leagues. The main issue is very simple: NASCAR’s product just isn’t that good. The Daytona 500 is fun but other than that, it’s boring. They’ve tried to improve it by adding more road courses, but those don’t really interest me either. And don’t even get me started on them having their season continue into the fall months. Like, come on, you know that you’re going to get destroyed by the NFL and the plethora of other sports going on at that time (baseball playoffs, early-season hockey and basketball, college football, MLS playoffs).
Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2021, 11:23:15 PM
Stuff like this...
https://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2016/4/21/11483470/nascar-fines-tony-stewart-safety-lug-nuts
If that had happened in 1996, and if it had been Earnhardt or Wallace or Darrell Waltrip saying it, there would have been no fine. Big Bill would have taken the comments under advisement. But two decades later, and after Earnhardt's death had led NASCAR to start emphasizing safety with renewed vigor, this took place.
Track attendance had been falling steadily, a combination of the economy and the on-track product. Now the TV ratings are tumbling. I'm not sure if the France offspring (Brian France and Lesa France Kennedy) are still running things or not, but whoever's in charge needs to take note. The Chase, stage racing, the "lucky dog" and no racing back to the flag ... if they were trying to attract new fans while maintaining the old ones, they failed in both efforts.
I always thought they misapplied how the lucky dog should work when they invented this. In situations where they were racing back to the flag sometimes 3 people got a lap back, sometimes nobody. Some of the drivers who got a lap back were multiple laps down. The way to get that same outcome with the lucky dog would be to give back a lap to anyone not on the lead lap who was within say 3 scoring loops of the leader when the caution flag comes out. It seems ridiculous to give the first car one lap down a lap back when they were 3/4 of a lap down and do nothing for someone laps down who is right behind the leader on the track.
You could've also kept the race back to the flag by throwing a red flag if there is a safety reason to not race back to the flag on any particular caution incident, such as the Dale Jarrett spin near the start/finish line that prompted the rule change to begin with.
I'm not the hugest fan of stage racing but I would like it better if they did not throw a caution at the end of the stages. The stage racing format gets rid of a lot of green-flag pit stops which can greatly impact a team one way or the other depending on how it was executed.
The one problem with the Chase sort of equating what happens for playoffs in other sports is you are much more likely to end up with a champion who wasn't the first or second best driver during the season. The other flaw is that other non-chase drivers have influence on the outcome of the chaser's finish.
Some tracks are definitely more boring than others - partly a product of how they engineer the cars to keep them from going airborne in a crash and these adjustments also make it hard to pass due to how air interacts with cars around you when you are not crashing. I hate restrictor plate racing. They should run those races on 6 or 7 cylinders so that there can be differences in engine building prowess and therefore some cars will be faster than others. Or flatten the curves at the two tracks that need this so that a driver must slow down and therefore some skill is involved in getting around the track.
QuoteI'm not the hugest fan of stage racing but I would like it better if they did not throw a caution at the end of the stages. The stage racing format gets rid of a lot of green-flag pit stops which can greatly impact a team one way or the other depending on how it was executed.
Even Eric Estepp (who supports stage racing) agrees that cautions should not be thrown at the end of stages on road courses. Cautions at the end of stages really mess with the strategies on the road courses with anyone wanting to stay up front basically being forced to give up stage points for it.
Quote from: thspfc on February 14, 2021, 08:54:47 AM
At this point, NASCAR is relying on its expensive TV contracts with Fox and NBC. I believe that those will expire in 2024. It will be interesting to see what happens after that. Do Fox and NBC want them? Do they go to other networks for less money?
Some say that NASCAR's downfall is due to them trying too hard to appeal to the "casual" fan, instead of catering to their hardcore lifers. I disagree. That business model has been successful for many sports leagues. The main issue is very simple: NASCAR's product just isn't that good. The Daytona 500 is fun but other than that, it's boring. They've tried to improve it by adding more road courses, but those don't really interest me either. And don't even get me started on them having their season continue into the fall months. Like, come on, you know that you're going to get destroyed by the NFL and the plethora of other sports going on at that time (baseball playoffs, early-season hockey and basketball, college football, MLS playoffs).
I think NASCAR is aware of the struggles of grabbing ratings in the Fall. Golf made their switch to end their season in August. In order to do this NASCAR would have to push the start of the season well before mid-February. That either forces the Daytona 500 to either move off its traditional mid-February weekend of cease to be the first race of the season. Beyond that, it would be hard to find enough tracks where it's warm enough to have races in December-January.
This year they've pushed up the start of the season by one week, doubled up the Pocono races to a single weekend, and eliminated an off week and gotten the season finale up to Nov. 7. That's probably the best they can do. In 2020 they were forced to run weeknight races due to COVID and got bad TV ratings so they probably aren't willing to consider that as a permanent change.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on February 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
QuoteI'm not the hugest fan of stage racing but I would like it better if they did not throw a caution at the end of the stages. The stage racing format gets rid of a lot of green-flag pit stops which can greatly impact a team one way or the other depending on how it was executed.
Even Eric Estepp (who supports stage racing) agrees that cautions should not be thrown at the end of stages on road courses. Cautions at the end of stages really mess with the strategies on the road courses with anyone wanting to stay up front basically being forced to give up stage points for it.
I don't like the planned cautions of the stages. It saves drivers who have made mistakes or had accidents and were about to get lapped under green. It makes it easier for the strongest teams to stay at the front and makes it harder for the second tier teams to steal a win based on strategy.
Eric Estepp is like 12 years old.
Stages were a mistake. Proof? The live gate and TV ratings were higher without them.
Ending the ultra-safe practice of racing back to the caution was a mistake. Proof? Same.
The "playoffs" were a mistake. Proof? Same.
Abandoning cars with a superficial relationship to the manufacturers in favor of the current spec cars was a mistake. Proof? Same.
Telling people who invest $100 or more in person, or their entire day on TV in a race that who won the race really doesn't matter, what the situation will be in some "playoff" to be held months from now in a different part of the country, was a mistake. Proof? Same.
Road courses and the silly idea that, somehow oval tracks, the backbone of the sport, are "boring" is a mistake. Proof? Same.
Spotter dependence, caused by drivers having limited freedom of movement, was a mistake. Proof? Same.
The TV contract indeed runs out after the 24 season. Fox is known to want out. It seems fine with just baseball and football. NBC is going to make a run at more football. NASCAR is probably going to get maybe a quarter of what it is getting now. Perhaps then, finally, will realize that it was impossible to improve on that which was already done correctly.
QuoteEric Estepp is like 12 years old.
Insulting a NASCAR YouTuber that loves the sport is definitely not going to help it. I watch his race reviews every week, and he and other NASCAR YouTubers have no problem calling out NASCAR when they see fit.
Where the sport goes from here is going to be interesting, but the current sanctioning body is willing to try new things. We will have to wait and see if interest in the sport improves over the coming years or if it all but dies out.
There is also a new talented female driver (Hailie Deegan) in the Truck Series this year. She is already one of the most popular drivers in NASCAR, and I expect way more from her than I ever saw out of Danica.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 14, 2021, 11:34:40 AM
Eric Estepp is like 12 years old.
Stages were a mistake. Proof? The live gate and TV ratings were higher without them.
Ending the ultra-safe practice of racing back to the caution was a mistake. Proof? Same.
The "playoffs" were a mistake. Proof? Same.
Abandoning cars with a superficial relationship to the manufacturers in favor of the current spec cars was a mistake. Proof? Same.
Telling people who invest $100 or more in person, or their entire day on TV in a race that who won the race really doesn't matter, what the situation will be in some "playoff" to be held months from now in a different part of the country, was a mistake. Proof? Same.
Road courses and the silly idea that, somehow oval tracks, the backbone of the sport, are "boring" is a mistake. Proof? Same.
Spotter dependence, caused by drivers having limited freedom of movement, was a mistake. Proof? Same.
The TV contract indeed runs out after the 24 season. Fox is known to want out. It seems fine with just baseball and football. NBC is going to make a run at more football. NASCAR is probably going to get maybe a quarter of what it is getting now. Perhaps then, finally, will realize that it was impossible to improve on that which was already done correctly.
Lower attendance and TV ratings aren't "proof" that every change was a mistake. There were a lot of factors beyond NASCAR's control that hurt attendance and TV ratings for essentially every sport except football.
Spec cars were a necessary move to allow there to be more than just 3-4 teams being able to afford to field cars. If you'd prefer to watch 20 non-spec cars in a race rather than 40 spec cars, you're probably in the minority.
If ratings are worse because they no longer allow dangerous things like racing back to the caution, then that's life.
The new road courses this year are replacing a second race at Texas, the race at a Chicago track that's exactly like about a dozen other tracks, and the Indy Oval which just isn't suited to stock cars. Nobody is going to miss what's been replaced.
Also, you're one of few who would have watched the last two races after Kevin Harvick clinched the championship at Texas in the non-playoff world.
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 14, 2021, 08:54:47 AM
At this point, NASCAR is relying on its expensive TV contracts with Fox and NBC. I believe that those will expire in 2024. It will be interesting to see what happens after that. Do Fox and NBC want them? Do they go to other networks for less money?
Some say that NASCAR's downfall is due to them trying too hard to appeal to the "casual" fan, instead of catering to their hardcore lifers. I disagree. That business model has been successful for many sports leagues. The main issue is very simple: NASCAR's product just isn't that good. The Daytona 500 is fun but other than that, it's boring. They've tried to improve it by adding more road courses, but those don't really interest me either. And don't even get me started on them having their season continue into the fall months. Like, come on, you know that you're going to get destroyed by the NFL and the plethora of other sports going on at that time (baseball playoffs, early-season hockey and basketball, college football, MLS playoffs).
I think NASCAR is aware of the struggles of grabbing ratings in the Fall. Golf made their switch to end their season in August. In order to do this NASCAR would have to push the start of the season well before mid-February. That either forces the Daytona 500 to either move off its traditional mid-February weekend of cease to be the first race of the season. Beyond that, it would be hard to find enough tracks where it's warm enough to have races in December-January.
This year they've pushed up the start of the season by one week, doubled up the Pocono races to a single weekend, and eliminated an off week and gotten the season finale up to Nov. 7. That's probably the best they can do. In 2020 they were forced to run weeknight races due to COVID and got bad TV ratings so they probably aren't willing to consider that as a permanent change.
IndyCar has ended its season in the early fall for years, for that reason. It ended in later in 2020 due to the pandemic.
truex is gonna drive it like he stole it.
2017: nuggets sucked, avs sucked, Broncos sucked, Rockies sucked. truex brought the cup to denver that year and will always have my respect even if FRR is no more ...
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 12:15:54 PM
Lower attendance and TV ratings aren't "proof" that every change was a mistake. There were a lot of factors beyond NASCAR's control that hurt attendance and TV ratings for essentially every sport except football.
Except that NO sport in the history of sports has lost as many fans, TV and live, than NASCAR ins such a time period. Thus the whole "outside factors" silliness is just that, silly.
Reality is that NASCAR had a culture of listening to who paid the bills. For a long time that was RJR, in the person of T. Wayne Robertson, who was a natural promoter, LIKED NASCAR, and understood it and the people it appealed to. When RJR left, that became the TV networks, particularly NBC, which sent down a bunch of empty suit people from HQ who did not understand NASCAR, did not like NASCAR, and had abject contempt for the type of person who did.
They were listened to.
Quote
Spec cars were a necessary move to allow there to be more than just 3-4 teams being able to afford to field cars. If you'd prefer to watch 20 non-spec cars in a race rather than 40 spec cars, you're probably in the minority.
I would prefer to watch 43 cars, the number that NASCAR could attract under previous rules. Spec cars, the so called Car of Tomorrow led to fiascos like the 08 Brickyard 400. Imagine a world where people that believe in such stupidity were disregarded, and the IMS race still draws a full house, not the 10% crowd it did last non covid time.
Quote
If ratings are worse because they no longer allow dangerous things like racing back to the caution, then that's life.
Please list the major accidents caused in the over 50 years of the ultra safe practice of racing back to the caution.
I will help you out. There were none. Because racing back to the caution is ultra safe.
Quote
The new road courses this year are replacing a second race at Texas, the race at a Chicago track that's exactly like about a dozen other tracks, and the Indy Oval which just isn't suited to stock cars. Nobody is going to miss what's been replaced.
If you like road courses, find a race series, I suggest IMSA, that is about them. NASCAR is about ovals.
Yes, when NASCAR was well run, its popularity exploded and tracks were built around the country. So NASCAR could have a presence in more places. Just like when pro football exploded a generation before, proper football fields were built in new metro area. Not goofy gimmicks. Proper football fields.
Quote
Also, you're one of few who would have watched the last two races after Kevin Harvick clinched the championship at Texas in the non-playoff world.
Umm, the howcome the ratings during the well run era was so far higher than these idiotic playoffs are.
And, why would ANYONE watch a random race in June, when ALL THAT MATTERS is this playoffs, which produce a completely random result in no way reflective of a true "champion"? Just tune in for the last half hour of the playoffs.
Why watch a race when you know who is "champion" of the year? Because in the well run era winning the championship (which was a legitimate thing, not a random result like today) was ONE measure of who had a good year, along with winning major races, multiple races, etc. But the all consuming most important thing each week was WHO WON THE RACE!!!
Sure nascar is declining, but it didn't do that bad last season. Ratings were down by 2 percent, and up by 1 if you don't count the delayed Daytona. I'm guessing the race being on valentines day would make it fall, but most of the country is having some sort of effect from winter weather.
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 11:29:31 AMBeyond that, it would be hard to find enough tracks where it's warm enough to have races in December-January.
One of the reasons Rockingham got dropped from the schedule was because of declining attendance. Well, duh. It's cold in North Carolina in February.
Eh, I dislike most of NASCAR's decision-making over the last twenty years, but I'll stick up for disallowing "racing back to the flag" on the merits of safety, along with the HANS device. Face it, it's a sporting body* that has jiggled with the rules constantly and has been historically inconsistent with applying penalties since day one, it just took some time for you all to realize it. It's all about the gate receipts and ratings, and when those go, the need to keep fussing around the the sport every few weeks starts to disappear. The best thing for it might be to collapse under its own weight, and then it might revert somewhat the the way sport it once was...the theory is that those who want to compete will do so but there's always the fear that the biggest teams will sway the rules and regulations to their desires.
Start by eliminating the Chase and a lot of issues will start to work themselves out.
* the FIA and CART/USAC/IRL aren't or weren't much better, honestly.
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.
Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 10:22:46 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.
Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.
The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2021, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 10:22:46 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.
Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.
The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.
I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And
everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.
Quote from: kenarmy on February 14, 2021, 10:42:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2021, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 10:22:46 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.
Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.
The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.
I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.
And that money is meaningless how? You do know that the pit crew and shop workers are largely paid out of the actual race winnings? They have every incentive to make as much money as possible even if the race team is out of the championship running. The biggest difference between auto racing and most sports is that most of the participants (aside the drivers) aren't under lucrative paying contracts.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2021, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 14, 2021, 10:42:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2021, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 10:22:46 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.
Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.
The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.
I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.
And that money is meaningless how? You do know that the pit crew and shop workers are largely paid out of the actual race winnings? They have every incentive to make as much money as possible even if the race team is out of the championship running. The biggest difference between auto racing and most sports is that most of the participants (aside the drivers) aren't under lucrative paying contracts.
I'm not saying the money is meaningless, but you can get nice purses without winning. That's why the glorified start and park teams lose almost every race and are still around.
Quote from: kenarmy on February 14, 2021, 11:09:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2021, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 14, 2021, 10:42:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 14, 2021, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 10:22:46 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 14, 2021, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.
If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.
Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.
The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.
I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.
And that money is meaningless how? You do know that the pit crew and shop workers are largely paid out of the actual race winnings? They have every incentive to make as much money as possible even if the race team is out of the championship running. The biggest difference between auto racing and most sports is that most of the participants (aside the drivers) aren't under lucrative paying contracts.
I'm not saying the money is meaningless, but you can get nice purses without winning. That's why the glorified start and park teams lose almost every race and are still around.
Yes, but you're a competitive team and have a chance to still win then why wouldn't you? How is that any different than the say the 8th place team in the points on a 1980s/1990s era season when they didn't have a realistic chance for the championship during late season?
Also, there have been drivers in NASCAR that have been very competitive that weren't exactly in for a full season and driving championship. David Pearson would be the most prominent example of being in it just to win races for much of his career, Mark Martin was doing the same thing for much of the tail end of this his also.
It might be just me but I much preferred when the point system awarded overall consistent performance and punished things like wrecking out. Watching someone like Terry Labonte surgically take down his teammate Jeff Gordon in 1996 was a lot more exciting than a farce Chase format. In the old system Jeff Gordon (who won a crap load of races in 1996) was punished for a lot of early season wrecks and Terry Labonte was rewarded by finishing in the Top 5-Top 10 almost every single week. Under the new system it would have been a complete reversal. The old point system was close to perfect and resulted in a true driving champion every year.
Well, I don't think anyone was predicting Michael McDowell was winning tonight...or the Penske cars taking each other out.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 15, 2021, 12:18:54 AM
Well, I don't think anyone was predicting Michael McDowell was winning tonight...or the Penske cars taking each other out.
i think it is rather awesome that he won... i always like it when someone who's not one of the 'big names' wins these.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on February 14, 2021, 01:24:34 PM
truex is gonna drive it like he stole it.
2017: nuggets sucked, avs sucked, Broncos sucked, Rockies sucked. truex brought the cup to denver that year and will always have my respect even if FRR is no more ...
welp... how'd that work out for him tonight...
's ok. he'll get his mojo back.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on February 15, 2021, 12:25:39 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 15, 2021, 12:18:54 AM
Well, I don't think anyone was predicting Michael McDowell was winning tonight...or the Penske cars taking each other out.
i think it is rather awesome that he won... i always like it when someone who's not one of the 'big names' wins these.
I do too, and he was in it most of the night. Really this is the kind of thing that really can only ever happen in Motorsports. That said, I can't help but recall Texas in 2008:
For non-motorsports fans to put into context how big of an upset this was; it would be like Rutgers going to play Alabama at their home field in college football and somehow winning. To see someone who has been traditionally a journeyman driver stabilize his career with his current team and put something together like this is pretty amazing.
Why is Derrike Cope still racing, he won this race over 30 years ago. And he ended up last today :-| . I wanted Jamie Mcmurray to win he's underrated! I won't complain though because at least Penske didn't win.
Quote from: kenarmy on February 15, 2021, 12:49:11 AM
Why is Derrike Cope still racing, he won this race over 30 years ago. And he ended up last :-| . I wanted Jamie Mcmurray to win he's underrated! I won't complain though because at least Penske didn't win.
Why not with Derrick Cope? He went through the qualifying session and the 150s like everyone else. Drivers like Dave Marcis were making legit season runs at Cope's age until fairly recently, so I see no problem with this.
Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.
Listen to the confused, pointless, two minutes of commentary Fox presented because no ultra-safe race back to the caution/checkers was held. Because of a caution in Turn 3, two miles from the finish line that should have been raced back to.
Quote from: thspfc on February 15, 2021, 09:27:06 AM
Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.
How is NASCAR supposed to control something like rain? Right now is the dry season in Florida, there is literally no better time to run a race in said state.
Speaking of that that almost six hour rain delay, I ended up watching Days of Thunder documentary. That movie sure ended getting a lot better in time since it didn't use a single bit of CGI. I much rather watch something like that over a Fast and the Furious movie. Both have trash plot lines but at least the cars were really there in Days of Thunder.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 15, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 15, 2021, 09:27:06 AM
Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.
How is NASCAR supposed to control something like rain?
They can't control the rain, but they can control the time at which their races start. When you start your races at 3:00 ET or whenever it was yesterday, if there's a rain delay (as you said, highly likely in Florida, and from the time I've spent there, it seems like it most often rains in the afternoon), you basically give yourself two choices: resume the next day and hope it doesn't rain then, or finish the race in the middle of the night when almost nobody will be watching. They could start the race at 1:00 ET. Then, if there's a 5-hour rain delay like yesterday, the race finishes around 10, rather than midnight. Of course, rain is not a real threat at most tracks. There will inevatibly be a couple rain delays every season at tracks you wouldn't expect, but at Daytona, you need to plan for the rain.
I've watched a lot of rain-delayed Daytona 500s over the years. The infamous Juan Montoya jet dryer crash happened at night.
Quote from: thspfc on February 15, 2021, 02:32:02 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 15, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: thspfc on February 15, 2021, 09:27:06 AM
Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.
How is NASCAR supposed to control something like rain?
They can't control the rain, but they can control the time at which their races start. When you start your races at 3:00 ET or whenever it was yesterday, if there's a rain delay (as you said, highly likely in Florida, and from the time I've spent there, it seems like it most often rains in the afternoon), you basically give yourself two choices: resume the next day and hope it doesn't rain then, or finish the race in the middle of the night when almost nobody will be watching. They could start the race at 1:00 ET. Then, if there's a 5-hour rain delay like yesterday, the race finishes around 10, rather than midnight. Of course, rain is not a real threat at most tracks. There will inevatibly be a couple rain delays every season at tracks you wouldn't expect, but at Daytona, you need to plan for the rain.
Daytona gets something like 2.7 inches of rain every February. It's common but it isn't the 4 PM monsoon you get in a typical Florida summer. I would imagine those TV partners are the ones who want the race to end under the lights.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 15, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
I've watched a lot of rain-delayed Daytona 500s over the years. The infamous Juan Montoya jet dryer crash happened at night.
under caution, even.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on February 15, 2021, 10:21:34 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 15, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
I've watched a lot of rain-delayed Daytona 500s over the years. The infamous Juan Montoya jet dryer crash happened at night.
under caution, even.
Yeah but did he hit the pace car?
Even 20 years after Dale Earnhardt's death, the memory of that tragic ending at Daytona has never really faded. On the plus side, it gave NASCAR the opportunity to make its cars safer than ever, thus saving drivers like Ryan Newman from a similar fate.
Quote from: Henry on February 19, 2021, 10:56:13 AM
Even 20 years after Dale Earnhardt's death, the memory of that tragic ending at Daytona has never really faded. On the plus side, it gave NASCAR the opportunity to make its cars safer than ever, thus saving drivers like Ryan Newman from a similar fate.
There was a couple other deaths that happened around the same time. The one that I really recall was Kenny Irwin in the summer of 2000. It's kind of bizarre to think that things like the HANS device, open face helmets and letting drivers get away with things like modifying harnesses was allowed into this century. Thankfully the COT didn't last too long, there aren't many fond memories I have of that spec car.
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He'll be fine, it didn't stop Terry Labonte from getting into the NASCAR Hall of Fame. I'd argue Kenseth had a better overall body of work given he has way more Cup Wins.
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He's also partially responsible for the shitshow that is the playoffs. In his 2003 championship season, he won one race, but won the title on consistency, while Ryan Newman won eight races but finished down in the points because he had quite a few DNFs.
Quote from: Takumi on February 19, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He's also partially responsible for the shitshow that is the playoffs. In his 2003 championship season, he won one race, but won the title on consistency, while Ryan Newman won eight races but finished down in the points because he had quite a few DNFs.
NASCAR resetting everyones wins during the chase has nothing to do with Matt, and that's honestly the only reason it's a shitshow. They were already changing their rules before the championship and had started planning more adjustments. Matt
helped because drivers get more points for wins. Otherwise, we'd have things like Martin Truex Jr. winning the championship over Chase Elliott
I don't think that I'm in the minority on this but if you can't be consistent and wreck out all the time then you shouldn't be handed the championship because you had a bunch of wins. Yeah 1st should have awarded 190 or 195 points in the old system but there is way too much emphasis placed on it now over consistency. It didn't work well for CART being so win emphasis heavy and it isn't working for NASCAR. Then again I thought 5 points should have been awarded for the pole and fastest lap of the race in the old system.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: Henry on February 19, 2021, 10:56:13 AM
Even 20 years after Dale Earnhardt's death, the memory of that tragic ending at Daytona has never really faded. On the plus side, it gave NASCAR the opportunity to make its cars safer than ever, thus saving drivers like Ryan Newman from a similar fate.
There was a couple other deaths that happened around the same time. The one that I really recall was Kenny Irwin in the summer of 2000. It's kind of bizarre to think that things like the HANS device, open face helmets and letting drivers get away with things like modifying harnesses was allowed into this century. Thankfully the COT didn't last too long, there aren't many fond memories I have of that spec car.
Adam Petty. And John Nemechek.
Quote from: Takumi on February 19, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He's also partially responsible for the shitshow that is the playoffs. In his 2003 championship season, he won one race, but won the title on consistency, while Ryan Newman won eight races but finished down in the points because he had quite a few DNFs.
If not for the Chase, people would not be mentioning Jimmie Johnson in the same breath with Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty. I've come across a site in the past that shows who would have been the champion if the old system had stayed in use. If I remember correctly, Jeff Gordon would have had a couple more and Johnson would only have had about three.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 19, 2021, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: Henry on February 19, 2021, 10:56:13 AM
Even 20 years after Dale Earnhardt's death, the memory of that tragic ending at Daytona has never really faded. On the plus side, it gave NASCAR the opportunity to make its cars safer than ever, thus saving drivers like Ryan Newman from a similar fate.
There was a couple other deaths that happened around the same time. The one that I really recall was Kenny Irwin in the summer of 2000. It's kind of bizarre to think that things like the HANS device, open face helmets and letting drivers get away with things like modifying harnesses was allowed into this century. Thankfully the COT didn't last too long, there aren't many fond memories I have of that spec car.
Adam Petty. And John Nemechek.
Quote from: Takumi on February 19, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He's also partially responsible for the shitshow that is the playoffs. In his 2003 championship season, he won one race, but won the title on consistency, while Ryan Newman won eight races but finished down in the points because he had quite a few DNFs.
If not for the Chase, people would not be mentioning Jimmie Johnson in the same breath with Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty. I've come across a site in the past that shows who would have been the champion if the old system had stayed in use. If I remember correctly, Jeff Gordon would have had a couple more and Johnson would only have had about three.
Exactly, people are quick to complain about the chase but don't realize that it's mostly in favor of their favorite drivers. Do you remember the name of the site?
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 10:24:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 19, 2021, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:53:45 AM
Quote from: Henry on February 19, 2021, 10:56:13 AM
Even 20 years after Dale Earnhardt's death, the memory of that tragic ending at Daytona has never really faded. On the plus side, it gave NASCAR the opportunity to make its cars safer than ever, thus saving drivers like Ryan Newman from a similar fate.
There was a couple other deaths that happened around the same time. The one that I really recall was Kenny Irwin in the summer of 2000. It's kind of bizarre to think that things like the HANS device, open face helmets and letting drivers get away with things like modifying harnesses was allowed into this century. Thankfully the COT didn't last too long, there aren't many fond memories I have of that spec car.
Adam Petty. And John Nemechek.
Quote from: Takumi on February 19, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He's also partially responsible for the shitshow that is the playoffs. In his 2003 championship season, he won one race, but won the title on consistency, while Ryan Newman won eight races but finished down in the points because he had quite a few DNFs.
If not for the Chase, people would not be mentioning Jimmie Johnson in the same breath with Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty. I've come across a site in the past that shows who would have been the champion if the old system had stayed in use. If I remember correctly, Jeff Gordon would have had a couple more and Johnson would only have had about three.
Exactly, people are quick to complain about the chase but don't realize that it's mostly in favor of their favorite drivers. Do you remember the name of the site?
Jayski.com
It's still online btw.
Oh, I've been to Jayski but i've never noticed that part
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 11:07:24 PM
Oh, I've been to Jayski but i've never noticed that part
It's kind of impressive it has stayed online all these years. I recall going to Jayski.com with Netscape via Prodigy and AOL in Middle School. I want to came online in 1996?
Speaking of 1996, NASCAR and Prodigy that was the year they were the primary sponsor on the 71 which was owned/driven by Dave Marcis. My Dad was the VP of Marketing at Prodigy at the time and had arranged for them to be an associate sponsor in 1994/1995. During the 1994 and 1995 Prodigy was the primary sponsor at Ponoco and Phoenix (the latter because my brother lived in Phoenix) while the majority of the season had Olive Garden as the primary. My Dad convinced the board at Prodigy to invest $3,000,000 dollars into being the primary sponsor for Dave Marcis for the entire 1996 season after Olive Garden had walked away.
At the time Prodigy had moved form a closed ISP to an Netscape based service so they really wanted the exposure of being on TV. The show car and merchandise trailer gave out free trial CDs for Prodigy but it didn't really have the desired effect on adding subscribers. The thought was that the trial CDs shouldn't have been in plastic wrap because they often ended up going unused after Mr. Marcis signed them at autograph sessions.
The paint scheme of the 1996 Prodigy car was purple and green which something new Prodigy changed to compete with AOL. In 1995 the colors were purple and yellow whereas they were a more bland blue on white for 1994. My Dad and actually made models of the 1996 paint scheme on Revell 1/24 die-cast cars in our garage in Connecticut. The final paint scheme was fairly close to the last design we came up with in the garage (and I really wish that I had that die-cast still).
I attended dozens of races as a guest from 1994 until Mr. Marcis retired after the 2002 Daytona. I was often put to work in the garage which required a waiver from NASCAR given I was a kid for most of that time. Being around a Winston Cup race team so much through the years really was a once in a life time experience and was some of the best times I ever spent with my Dad. This photo is of me with Mr. Marcis at the last pre-race ceremonies of the 1996 Tyson Holly Farms 400 which was the last Winston Cup Race at North Wilkesboro:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4633/38491146634_175fc83c1e_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21DkbTd)IMG_1246 (https://flic.kr/p/21DkbTd) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
So to that end I often get asked why my Challenger is purple with green stripes, the reason is that it matches the colors of the 1996 Prodigy car. It might not be a 1996 W-Body Chevy Monte Carlo but I thought it would be a good way to honor my Dad and those nostalgic times. It seemed even more appropriate given it was almost 20 years to the day after that sponsorship was approved by the Prodigy board to when I bought that Challenger.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50284060447_98d5c35ee0_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBqXir)IMG_2710 (https://flic.kr/p/2jBqXir) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Dave Marcis. Drove in wingtips and basically served as an R&D car for Richard Childress Racing (Dale Earnhardt in particular) his last few years.
Some national outfit picked Jayski up. ESPN maybe? I didn't realize Jayski was the one who had the list of champions under the old system online.
They're running the Daytona road course tomorrow without benefit of practice or qualifying. Makes me wish I hadn't given up NASCAR.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:38:05 PM
Speaking of 1996, NASCAR and Prodigy that was the year they were the primary sponsor on the 71 which was owned/driven by Dave Marcis. My Dad was the VP of Marketing at Prodigy at the time and had arranged for them to be an associate sponsor in 1994/1995. During the 1994 and 1995 Prodigy was the primary sponsor at Ponoco and Phoenix (the latter because my brother lived in Phoenix) while the majority of the season had Olive Garden as the primary. My Dad convinced the board at Prodigy to invest $3,000,000 dollars into being the primary sponsor for Dave Marcis for the entire 1996 season after Olive Garden had walked away.
At the time Prodigy had moved form a closed ISP to an Netscape based service so they really wanted the exposure of being on TV. The show car and merchandise trailer gave out free trial CDs for Prodigy but it didn't really have the desired effect on adding subscribers. The thought was that the trial CDs shouldn't have been in plastic wrap because they often ended up going unused after Mr. Marcis signed them at autograph sessions.
The paint scheme of the 1996 Prodigy car was purple and green which something new Prodigy changed to compete with AOL. In 1995 the colors were purple and yellow whereas they were a more bland blue on white for 1994. My Dad and actually made models of the 1996 paint scheme on Revell 1/24 die-cast cars in our garage in Connecticut. The final paint scheme was fairly close to the last design we came up with in the garage (and I really wish that I had that die-cast still).
I attended dozens of races as a guest from 1994 until Mr. Marcis retired after the 2002 Daytona. I was often put to work in the garage which required a waiver from NASCAR given I was a kid for most of that time. Being around a Winston Cup race team so much through the years really was a once in a life time experience and was some of the best times I ever spent with my Dad. This photo is of me with Mr. Marcis at the last pre-race ceremonies of the 1996 Tyson Holly Farms 400 which was the last Winston Cup Race at North Wilkesboro:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4633/38491146634_175fc83c1e_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21DkbTd)IMG_1246 (https://flic.kr/p/21DkbTd) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
So to that end I often get asked why my Challenger is purple with green stripes, the reason is that it matches the colors of the 1996 Prodigy car. It might not be a 1996 W-Body Chevy Monte Carlo but I thought it would be a good way to honor my Dad and those nostalgic times. It seemed even more appropriate given it was almost 20 years to the day after that sponsorship was approved by the Prodigy board to when I bought that Challenger.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50284060447_98d5c35ee0_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBqXir)IMG_2710 (https://flic.kr/p/2jBqXir) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
That is really neat!
Honestly, Idk how I feel about the race tmr. I personally am not a fan of the road courses and short tracks, except for Sonoma (I fondly remember this as being the last place were Tony Stewart won).
Quote from: hbelkins on February 21, 2021, 12:05:38 AM
Dave Marcis. Drove in wingtips and basically served as an R&D car for Richard Childress Racing (Dale Earnhardt in particular) his last few years.
Some national outfit picked Jayski up. ESPN maybe? I didn't realize Jayski was the one who had the list of champions under the old system online.
They're running the Daytona road course tomorrow without benefit of practice or qualifying. Makes me wish I hadn't given up NASCAR.
Yes, there was also a time he had to choose over being supplied with Childress engines or Hendrick engines. Considering that he was a test driver for Childress it was an obvious choice to pick them. He was testing the IROC cars at the same time with Dick Trickle and Jim Sauter.
Regarding Jayski it was sold to ESPN and Jay Adamczyk purchased it back after the domain was abandoned.
Ty Gibbs wins in his first XFinity start at the Daytona Road Course holding off Austin Cindric after driving in the grass on the final restart.
It is crazy to think that he did something Kyle Busch did not do. (He finished 2nd in his first XFinity start at Charlotte in 2003.)
Christopher Bell won't do the Joe Gibbs #20 justice. It's been going down since Matt Kenseth (my fave btw) left.
Christopher surprised me! And he beat a Penske Car... He might be my new favorite. w
Damn, Christopher Bell for the win. Lagano wasted his brakes at the end.
Heh...Michael McDowell got a Top Ten finish.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2021, 06:21:04 PM
Damn, Christopher Bell for the win. Lagano wasted his brakes at the end.
Heh...Michael McDowell got a Top Ten finish.
and two weeks in a row, someone who's mostly been in like the top 35 ... wins.
beautiful stuff
I wonder why Sara Christian hasn't been inducted in the hof. Sure, she only ran 7 races but she was the first woman to drive in a NASCAR race, the first and only woman to record a top five finish in NASCAR, participated in the first purely stock race, and finished 13 in standings. That's a better resume than d- but anyway.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on February 21, 2021, 09:33:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 21, 2021, 06:21:04 PM
Damn, Christopher Bell for the win. Lagano wasted his brakes at the end.
Heh...Michael McDowell got a Top Ten finish.
and two weeks in a row, someone who's mostly been in like the top 35 ... wins.
beautiful stuff
His only year in Cup was last year and he finished 20th in the standings with a lower level team, so the clues were there that he could win with elite equipment, especially on road courses.
McDowell lost a tire right at the green flag, which knocked him back from 2nd to last, and he battled back to finish 8th.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:38:05 PM
I attended dozens of races as a guest from 1994 until Mr. Marcis retired after the 2002 Daytona. I was often put to work in the garage which required a waiver from NASCAR given I was a kid for most of that time.
Did you by some odd chance attend the 2001 race @ Dover right after 9/11? I've been looking everywhere since '01 for pictures of Marcis's car from that weekend, but haven't found a single one since he was a DNQ.
So, somebody @ Homestead is a roadgeek. Look at this BGS they put up that's pretty much spot on. :cool:
https://twitter.com/WookieAutomoTV/status/1365694404082749441
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 27, 2021, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:38:05 PM
I attended dozens of races as a guest from 1994 until Mr. Marcis retired after the 2002 Daytona. I was often put to work in the garage which required a waiver from NASCAR given I was a kid for most of that time.
Did you by some odd chance attend the 2001 race @ Dover right after 9/11? I've been looking everywhere since '01 for pictures of Marcis's car from that weekend, but haven't found a single one since he was a DNQ.
Negative, I wasn't at Dover in 01.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 27, 2021, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 27, 2021, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:38:05 PM
I attended dozens of races as a guest from 1994 until Mr. Marcis retired after the 2002 Daytona. I was often put to work in the garage which required a waiver from NASCAR given I was a kid for most of that time.
Did you by some odd chance attend the 2001 race @ Dover right after 9/11? I've been looking everywhere since '01 for pictures of Marcis's car from that weekend, but haven't found a single one since he was a DNQ.
Negative, I wasn’t at Dover in 01.
Dang. I so want to find some pictures of his car from that race to see what, if anything, his team did to show support after 9/11. His is the only car from that weekend that I've found 0 pictures of.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 27, 2021, 04:38:37 PM
So, somebody @ Homestead is a roadgeek. Look at this BGS they put up that's pretty much spot on. :cool:
https://twitter.com/WookieAutomoTV/status/1365694404082749441
I never would have expected to see that. This makes Jimmie Johnson's 7 championships worth seeing in and of itself.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 27, 2021, 04:52:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 27, 2021, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 27, 2021, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:38:05 PM
I attended dozens of races as a guest from 1994 until Mr. Marcis retired after the 2002 Daytona. I was often put to work in the garage which required a waiver from NASCAR given I was a kid for most of that time.
Did you by some odd chance attend the 2001 race @ Dover right after 9/11? I've been looking everywhere since '01 for pictures of Marcis's car from that weekend, but haven't found a single one since he was a DNQ.
Negative, I wasn't at Dover in 01.
Dang. I so want to find some pictures of his car from that race to see what, if anything, his team did to show support after 9/11. His is the only car from that weekend that I've found 0 pictures of.
I want to say my Dad did have a picture of it so I might actually have a physical one in storage in Florida. I plan on scanning all those photos the next time I'm in the Tampa area (maybe in September?) and I'll let you know if I find one. At the time I would have just started my first job after moving to Phoenix so I was more or less stuck where I was.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 27, 2021, 05:07:26 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 27, 2021, 04:52:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 27, 2021, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 27, 2021, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2021, 11:38:05 PM
I attended dozens of races as a guest from 1994 until Mr. Marcis retired after the 2002 Daytona. I was often put to work in the garage which required a waiver from NASCAR given I was a kid for most of that time.
Did you by some odd chance attend the 2001 race @ Dover right after 9/11? I've been looking everywhere since '01 for pictures of Marcis's car from that weekend, but haven't found a single one since he was a DNQ.
Negative, I wasn't at Dover in 01.
Dang. I so want to find some pictures of his car from that race to see what, if anything, his team did to show support after 9/11. His is the only car from that weekend that I've found 0 pictures of.
I want to say my Dad did have a picture of it so I might actually have a physical one in storage in Florida. I plan on scanning all those photos the next time I'm in the Tampa area (maybe in September?) and I'll let you know if I find one. At the time I would have just started my first job after moving to Phoenix so I was more or less stuck where I was.
Cool beans! I'll be waiting. :)
Quote from: Takumi on February 19, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He's also partially responsible for the shitshow that is the playoffs. In his 2003 championship season, he won one race, but won the title on consistency, while Ryan Newman won eight races but finished down in the points because he had quite a few DNFs.
I've heard that NASCAR was thinking about the Chase/playoffs as early as 2000.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 27, 2021, 06:06:52 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 19, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on February 19, 2021, 12:13:30 PM
Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty :nod: . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.
He's also partially responsible for the shitshow that is the playoffs. In his 2003 championship season, he won one race, but won the title on consistency, while Ryan Newman won eight races but finished down in the points because he had quite a few DNFs.
I've heard that NASCAR was thinking about the Chase/playoffs as early as 2000.
Some of the teams were taking about it even in the 1990s. The concept of team franchises was really big back then too because a lot of owners wanted a guaranteed spot in the field.
Now William Byron wins and Michael McDowell finished in the top ten again.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 28, 2021, 07:02:34 PM
Now William Byron wins and Michael McDowell finished in the top ten again.
Im glad for both of them. I hope Denny gets his mess together before he ends up falling into lackluster land like Kyle Busch did after he won his championship. But then again it's only been 3 races.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 28, 2021, 07:02:34 PM
Now William Byron wins and Michael McDowell finished in the top ten again.
McDowell top ten on a superspeedway, road course, and now intermediate oval. He may not just be an also-ran in the playoffs.
Also, we have three guys who wouldn't have been picked to be playoff guys winning the first three races. Some big names are going to miss out.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 28, 2021, 07:02:34 PM
Now William Byron wins and Michael McDowell finished in the top ten again.
I'm happy for McDowell this year.
I didn't even watch the full race because I had to leave, and I come back to see Kyle Larson win and every Penske car in the top ten :-|.
Quote from: kenarmy on March 07, 2021, 07:42:54 PM
Kyle Larson
Well, that's liable to get the thread locked. :rofl:
Four different winners in four races, with none of them being overly likely repeat winners. It's not out of the question that we get more than 16 winners and end up with some missing the playoffs.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2021, 10:19:13 PM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 07, 2021, 07:42:54 PM
Kyle Larson
Well, that's liable to get the thread locked. :rofl:
People on Reddit and Twitter are bracing for drama.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 08, 2021, 07:09:47 AM
Four different winners in four races, with none of them being overly likely repeat winners. It's not out of the question that we get more than 16 winners and end up with some missing the playoffs.
I'm pretty confident Kyle Larson will likely be a repeat winner given how he was running in the other races. Even though this is off to a fast start getting to more than sixteen winners is going to be a tall order.
Plus McDowell could be the 'new' Michael Waltrip when it comes to Super Speedways.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 08, 2021, 07:14:13 PM
Plus McDowell could be the 'new' Michael Waltrip when it comes to Super Speedways.
I'm amazed he never pulled off a points win in the 30 car or with the Wood Brothers. He definitely wasn't all that competitive outside of super speedways with DEI.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 08, 2021, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 08, 2021, 07:14:13 PM
Plus McDowell could be the 'new' Michael Waltrip when it comes to Super Speedways.
I'm amazed he never pulled off a points win in the 30 car or with the Wood Brothers. He definitely wasn't all that competitive outside of super speedways with DEI.
He did win a Winston with the Wood Brothers, but yeah, surprised it took him as long as it did to win a points race.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 08, 2021, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 08, 2021, 07:14:13 PM
Plus McDowell could be the 'new' Michael Waltrip when it comes to Super Speedways.
I'm amazed he never pulled off a points win in the 30 car or with the Wood Brothers. He definitely wasn't all that competitive outside of super speedways with DEI.
He dominated the spring race at Darlington in 1991, but something broke on his car.
Well it's matt kenseth's birthday! Turns out he's only the third person who has won a race on their birthday. Add that to the underrated list. Oh yeah and we're both pisces so that's cool.
Truex wins and normal order is restored. The top 9 in this race are also the top 9 in points, and it seems almost certain the champion will come from this group. The only potential spoiler outside this group of 9 is Kyle Busch, but he needs to stop being the 4th car on his own team before he can be taken seriously.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4183.msg91979#msg91979
Looking at this thread is a little sad considering all the drivers mentioned are now retired. I see Trevor Bayne had a lot of hype when he won the Daytona 500.
Quote from: kenarmy on March 26, 2021, 12:51:37 AM
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4183.msg91979#msg91979
Looking at this thread is a little sad considering all the drivers mentioned are now retired. I see Trevor Bayne had a lot of hype when he won the Daytona 500.
Super Speedways tend to have a lot of fluke winners. Likewise Michael McDowell would likely never stand a chance of getting a win at a normal oval or road course.
Some other fluke Super Speedway winners that also come to mind would be; Derrick Cope, Bobby Hillin and Ron Bouchard.
Trevor Bayne alomst won a Truck Race at Talladega last year if I remember correctly.
The iRacing event on Wednesday was really fun. A lot more interesting than a real-life race, that's for sure.
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 01:04:04 PM
The iRacing event on Wednesday was really fun. A lot more interesting than a real-life race, that's for sure.
I take it you've never been to a race in person? A video game doesn't come close to what it is like being near those cars.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 01:08:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 01:04:04 PM
The iRacing event on Wednesday was really fun. A lot more interesting than a real-life race, that's for sure.
I take it you've never been to a race in person? A video game doesn't come close to what it is like being near those cars.
I guess.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 01:08:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 01:04:04 PM
The iRacing event on Wednesday was really fun. A lot more interesting than a real-life race, that's for sure.
I take it you've never been to a race in person? A video game doesn't come close to what it is like being near those cars.
i thought nascar was boring when i was a kid, until i saw two races at the 'old' richmond, va track in the mid 80's. i think it was just called 'fairgrounds raceway' or something like that. changed my whole perspective on it. what an experience! we were in the infield...
i think what really got me hooked.. was tv sound does not do it justice at all. even when they were just putting around under caution i swear i could feel it in my chest.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 26, 2021, 10:10:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 01:08:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 01:04:04 PM
The iRacing event on Wednesday was really fun. A lot more interesting than a real-life race, that's for sure.
I take it you've never been to a race in person? A video game doesn't come close to what it is like being near those cars.
i thought nascar was boring when i was a kid, until i saw two races at the 'old' richmond, va track in the mid 80's. i think it was just called 'fairgrounds raceway' or something like that. changed my whole perspective on it. what an experience! we were in the infield...
i think what really got me hooked.. was tv sound does not do it justice at all. even when they were just putting around under caution i swear i could feel it in my chest.
The amount of raw power and noise put out by those engines is pretty unbelievable in person if you've never experienced anything like it before. I usually had to wear double hearing protection when I was at the races and I'm pretty sure it might be the reason I have some minor hearing loss in my 30s. Even still NASCAR engines don't compare to what you'll hear and feel from the sound of a top fuel NHRA dragster.
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol? Wasn't the last time that the Cup series raced on anything resembling dirt when they were still using the beach course at Daytona?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol? Wasn't the last time that the Cup series raced on anything resembling dirt when they were still using the beach course at Daytona?
Mike
Apparently September 1970 at the North Carolina State Fairgrounds.
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol? Wasn't the last time that the Cup series raced on anything resembling dirt when they were still using the beach course at Daytona?
Mike
i think it is gonna be just simply bananas. i think there's gonna be beating, banging, sideways cars and just generally a lot of sweating, grunting, and gnashing of teeth. i saw some videos from the practices yesterday and they looked... fun.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on March 27, 2021, 09:13:13 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol? Wasn't the last time that the Cup series raced on anything resembling dirt when they were still using the beach course at Daytona?
Mike
i think it is gonna be just simply bananas. i think there's gonna be beating, banging, sideways cars and just generally a lot of sweating, grunting, and gnashing of teeth. i saw some videos from the practices yesterday and they looked... fun.
ARCA ran dirt events with modern stock cars. While they were interesting to watch they weren't the wreck fest everyone is anticipating.
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol? Wasn't the last time that the Cup series raced on anything resembling dirt when they were still using the beach course at Daytona?
Mike
A morning full of thunderstorms before the race ought to make it fun. Wonder if they are covering the track or if they just let it turn to mud.
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol?
Just the king's:
https://racingnews.co/2020/10/04/richard-petty-says-dirt-track-racing-isnt-professional-as-nascar-returns-to-dirt/
"I guess I'm looking at it from an old-time deal because we spent years and years and years trying to become a professional sport."
"Years and years to get away from that stigma. But dirt-track racing is not professional, so we're going backward. It would be like taking a professional football team and going back to play at a high school field."
--
Petty is, of course, right. As NASCAR continues to bleed fans from its SELF INFLICTED wounds, it tries gimmick after gimmick.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 27, 2021, 12:06:07 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol?
Just the king's:
https://racingnews.co/2020/10/04/richard-petty-says-dirt-track-racing-isnt-professional-as-nascar-returns-to-dirt/
"I guess I'm looking at it from an old-time deal because we spent years and years and years trying to become a professional sport."
"Years and years to get away from that stigma. But dirt-track racing is not professional, so we're going backward. It would be like taking a professional football team and going back to play at a high school field."
--
Petty is, of course, right. As NASCAR continues to bleed fans from its SELF INFLICTED wounds, it tries gimmick after gimmick.
"gimmick after gimmick" um what else are they supposed to do? at least they're trying to make it more interesting. A lot of people are looking forward to it and i don't think one dirt race would do that much harm.
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on March 27, 2021, 12:06:07 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol?
Just the king's:
https://racingnews.co/2020/10/04/richard-petty-says-dirt-track-racing-isnt-professional-as-nascar-returns-to-dirt/
"I guess I'm looking at it from an old-time deal because we spent years and years and years trying to become a professional sport."
"Years and years to get away from that stigma. But dirt-track racing is not professional, so we're going backward. It would be like taking a professional football team and going back to play at a high school field."
--
Petty is, of course, right. As NASCAR continues to bleed fans from its SELF INFLICTED wounds, it tries gimmick after gimmick.
"gimmick after gimmick" um what else are they supposed to do? at least they're trying to make it more interesting. A lot of people are looking forward to it and i don't think one dirt race would do that much harm.
Getting rid of interesting short tracks in favor of Charlotte and Michigan clones this last 25 years definitely hasn't been helping NASCAR in the long term. I'm a fan of a diverse set of race courses and I don't see a dirt track or two as a problem. Hell, I would welcome seeing a street course added to the schedule.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 27, 2021, 12:06:07 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 27, 2021, 01:03:22 AM
Any thoughts on this weekend's planned dirt track race at Bristol?
Just the king's:
https://racingnews.co/2020/10/04/richard-petty-says-dirt-track-racing-isnt-professional-as-nascar-returns-to-dirt/
"I guess I'm looking at it from an old-time deal because we spent years and years and years trying to become a professional sport."
"Years and years to get away from that stigma. But dirt-track racing is not professional, so we're going backward. It would be like taking a professional football team and going back to play at a high school field."
--
Petty is, of course, right. As NASCAR continues to bleed fans from its SELF INFLICTED wounds, it tries gimmick after gimmick.
Well, given that part of the NCAA Tournament is being played at Butler's gym this year, it wouldn't make a lot of difference if an NFL team played at a high school field. I'm recalling a famous scene from a movie that was shot at Butler's fieldhouse about the goals still being 10 feet off the floor.
In this case, the dirt track is at Bristol so they're still going to have the garages and other amenities that the drivers are used to.
If I'm recalling this correctly, Tony Stewart bought Eldora Speedway and convinced NASCAR to run a truck race there, and it got rave reviews from drivers and fans. So that's probably why they're doing the dirt track race.
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
um what else are they supposed to do?
Simple. Look at what worked. Resume doing it. Fire those who advocating change.
In NASCAR's case.
- Resume racing back to the caution.
- End spotter dependency.
- Have cars that bear at least some relationship to stock.
- End the idiotic chase/playoffs. Who WINS THE RACE, every week, must be the CENTER of the discussion.
- Without saying anyone is unwelcome, embrace and celebrate the culture from which the sport was born.
- Allow drivers to show some personality.
In other words, NASCAR c. 1980-2005 or so.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
um what else are they supposed to do?
Simple. Look at what worked. Resume doing it. Fire those who advocating change.
In NASCAR's case.
- Resume racing back to the caution.
- End spotter dependency.
- Have cars that bear at least some relationship to stock.
- End the idiotic chase/playoffs. Who WINS THE RACE, every week, must be the CENTER of the discussion.
- Without saying anyone is unwelcome, embrace and celebrate the culture from which the sport was born.
- Allow drivers to show some personality.
In other words, NASCAR c. 1980-2005 or so.
Fantastic, and let's bring Dale Earnhardt back to life and make Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart come out of retirement.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
Fantastic, and let's bring Dale Earnhardt back to life and make Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart come out of retirement.
No. Let's just use the tried and proven formula that made stars of those men, and thus find this generation's. Rather than the idiotic "new ideas" that DO NOT WORK.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 12:16:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
Fantastic, and let's bring Dale Earnhardt back to life and make Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart come out of retirement.
No. Let's just use the tried and proven formula that made stars of those men, and thus find this generation's. Rather than the idiotic "new ideas" that DO NOT WORK.
The men made the formula work. Not the other way around.
Racing back to the caution is unsafe and unnecesary. It matters even less now that there are double file restarts.
I don't know how you forcibly end spotter dependency. It exists.
Cars that bear relationship to stock are going to go a lot slower.
The Chase/Playoffs make winning more important. No more second placing your way to a points championship.
The culture from which the sport was born was racist and ignorant.
Drivers show personality. Clint Bowyer was a mediocre racer whose career lasted longer because personality earned him sponsorship.
The sport as it is now was appealing enough to bring in massive investments from Michael Jordan and Pitbull into teams, and that counts for more than just about anything else.
If you don't like what it is now, don't watch, but bitching about it is tiring and if you have nothing better to do then I'm very sad for you.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 12:16:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
Fantastic, and let's bring Dale Earnhardt back to life and make Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart come out of retirement.
No. Let's just use the tried and proven formula that made stars of those men, and thus find this generation's. Rather than the idiotic "new ideas" that DO NOT WORK.
The men made the formula work. Not the other way around.
Racing back to the caution is unsafe and unnecesary. It matters even less now that there are double file restarts.
I don't know how you forcibly end spotter dependency. It exists.
Cars that bear relationship to stock are going to go a lot slower.
The Chase/Playoffs make winning more important. No more second placing your way to a points championship.
The culture from which the sport was born was racist and ignorant.
Drivers show personality. Clint Bowyer was a mediocre racer whose career lasted longer because personality earned him sponsorship.
The sport as it is now was appealing enough to bring in massive investments from Michael Jordan and Pitbull into teams, and that counts for more than just about anything else.
If you don't like what it is now, don't watch, but bitching about it is tiring and if you have nothing better to do then I'm very sad for you.
Clint Bowyer having 10 wins is a hell of a lot more than mediocre. While I agree that trying new things isn't bad I don't agree that most of auto racing in general is more appealing than it was two decades ago. There are a lot of reasons for that and the lack of diversity is definitely one that is hitting NASCAR hard now in particular. Personally I think the sport will survive and become more diverse but it definitely won't ever approach it's former heights. To me I'm fine with that, it never bothered me as someone who played hockey and is a fan of the sport.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 12:16:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
Fantastic, and let's bring Dale Earnhardt back to life and make Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart come out of retirement.
No. Let's just use the tried and proven formula that made stars of those men, and thus find this generation's. Rather than the idiotic "new ideas" that DO NOT WORK.
The men made the formula work. Not the other way around.
Racing back to the caution is unsafe and unnecesary. It matters even less now that there are double file restarts.
I don't know how you forcibly end spotter dependency. It exists.
Cars that bear relationship to stock are going to go a lot slower.
The Chase/Playoffs make winning more important. No more second placing your way to a points championship.
The culture from which the sport was born was racist and ignorant.
Drivers show personality. Clint Bowyer was a mediocre racer whose career lasted longer because personality earned him sponsorship.
The sport as it is now was appealing enough to bring in massive investments from Michael Jordan and Pitbull into teams, and that counts for more than just about anything else.
If you don't like what it is now, don't watch, but bitching about it is tiring and if you have nothing better to do then I'm very sad for you.
you said this so well-
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 12:23:17 PM
Cars that bear relationship to stock are going to go a lot slower.
Faster cars doesn't mean it's a better sport to watch, otherwise nobody would be watching NASCAR because IndyCar and Formula 1 exist. And having less expensive cars would solve the problem of having fewer and fewer teams every year due to the rising costs of competing. Remember when there were 43 cars in a race and every qualifying had even more than that many entrants? That's not going to happen again with these cars.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 12:23:17 PM
The Chase/Playoffs make winning more important. No more second placing your way to a points championship.
How is getting second place a bad thing? If you got second place every single race, you'd be ranked lower than someone who won one race, and crashed out of every other one. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't a one-on-one sport where second place means you lost, you still beat 95% of the other drivers and that should mean something.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
um what else are they supposed to do?
Simple. Look at what worked. Resume doing it. Fire those who advocating change.
In NASCAR's case.
- Resume racing back to the caution.
- End spotter dependency.
- Have cars that bear at least some relationship to stock.
- End the idiotic chase/playoffs. Who WINS THE RACE, every week, must be the CENTER of the discussion.
- Without saying anyone is unwelcome, embrace and celebrate the culture from which the sport was born.
- Allow drivers to show some personality.
In other words, NASCAR c. 1980-2005 or so.
I've just taken note this year that nowadays NASCAR effectively has two separate points systems: the playoff grid (based on combined wins and points) and the one based on points alone.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 01:08:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 01:04:04 PM
The iRacing event on Wednesday was really fun. A lot more interesting than a real-life race, that's for sure.
I take it you've never been to a race in person? A video game doesn't come close to what it is like being near those cars.
I've been to a few races. You can't replicate being in the stands.
As far as iRacing, obviously you've never tried it. I'm only been doing it for almost 3 years now,
and it's pretty amazing how close to real racing it is for only around $100 a year. I have a blast.
So many different variables are built into the game. It's more of a simulation and not a video game now.
Tire wear, track wear and many other handling characteristics, that real racers say is as close to the real thing you can get.
Many "real" drivers actually use it for testing purposes when they go to a new track.
Quote from: TonyTrafficLight on March 29, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 26, 2021, 01:08:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on March 26, 2021, 01:04:04 PM
The iRacing event on Wednesday was really fun. A lot more interesting than a real-life race, that's for sure.
I take it you've never been to a race in person? A video game doesn't come close to what it is like being near those cars.
I've been to a few races. You can't replicate being in the stands.
As far as iRacing, obviously you've never tried it. I'm only been doing it for almost 3 years now,
and it's pretty amazing how close to real racing it is for only around $100 a year. I have a blast.
So many different variables are built into the game. It's more of a simulation and not a video game now.
Tire wear, track wear and many other handling characteristics, that real racers say is as close to the real thing you can get.
Many "real" drivers actually use it for testing purposes when they go to a new track.
Actually I did compete in online races when Sierra put out NASCAR simulators in 1994 and 1996. I would be kind of curious to see how those have improved considering even those were pretty accurate for the time.
Ah ok. I started with the original Nascar 1 then started online with Nascar 2002 & 2003 in the Papyrus days.
It is totally different. Check out some of the more popular YouTubers with their triple screens and shaker seats lol.
It's pretty amazing how far it's come.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 12:23:17 PM
Racing back to the caution is unsafe and unnecesary.
W R O N G. Please list the accidents this practice, used for 50 years, caused.
I'll help you out. None.
Ultra safe, and ultra interesting. Ever see the 79 Daytona 500. Understand what a farce it would have been under today's idiot rules.
Quote
I don't know how you forcibly end spotter dependency. It exists.
You allow drivers to turn their heads to see what is going on. Glad I could solve this difficult problem.
Quote
Cars that bear relationship to stock are going to go a lot slower.
Wrong. But so what is it were true?
Quote
The Chase/Playoffs make winning more important. No more second placing your way to a points championship.
W R O N G. The idiotic chase, which was supposed to move NASCAR in the fall over the NFL, means that all a driver has to do is win one race sometime and get in the random result playoffs, which in no way reflect who had the best year. The driver, once he wins one, can just sandbag until the idiotic chase starts. Under the proper points system, the winner had the best year, but, more importantly, WHO WON THE RACE was the main issue every week.
Quote
The culture from which the sport was born was racist and ignorant.
I feel sorry for you. How sad to hate others it must be.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 29, 2021, 11:57:18 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 28, 2021, 12:23:17 PM
Racing back to the caution is unsafe and unnecesary.
W R O N G. Please list the accidents this practice, used for 50 years, caused.
I'll help you out. None.
Ultra safe, and ultra interesting. Ever see the 79 Daytona 500. Understand what a farce it would have been under today's idiot rules.
Quote
I don't know how you forcibly end spotter dependency. It exists.
You allow drivers to turn their heads to see what is going on. Glad I could solve this difficult problem.
Quote
Cars that bear relationship to stock are going to go a lot slower.
Wrong. But so what is it were true?
Quote
The Chase/Playoffs make winning more important. No more second placing your way to a points championship.
W R O N G. The idiotic chase, which was supposed to move NASCAR in the fall over the NFL, means that all a driver has to do is win one race sometime and get in the random result playoffs, which in no way reflect who had the best year. The driver, once he wins one, can just sandbag until the idiotic chase starts. Under the proper points system, the winner had the best year, but, more importantly, WHO WON THE RACE was the main issue every week.
Quote
The culture from which the sport was born was racist and ignorant.
I feel sorry for you. How sad to hate others it must be.
The champion is coming from among the top point earners over the season, just not necessarily the #1, which is necessary in order to ensure drama through the last race.
And I'm not the one hating others, you're confusing me with the racists who hide their hate behind words like "roots" and "heritage"
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
um what else are they supposed to do?
Simple. Look at what worked. Resume doing it. Fire those who advocating change.
In NASCAR's case.
- Resume racing back to the caution.
- End spotter dependency.
- Have cars that bear at least some relationship to stock.
- End the idiotic chase/playoffs. Who WINS THE RACE, every week, must be the CENTER of the discussion.
- Without saying anyone is unwelcome, embrace and celebrate the culture from which the sport was born.
- Allow drivers to show some personality.
In other words, NASCAR c. 1980-2005 or so.
I'm not a watcher, but I agree with #1, #3, #4, #4, #4, #4, and somewhat #6 (depends on what they're gonna say when unmuzzled).
but let's please not discuss the merits of Southern culture vs. racism. this is not the place.
I stopped watching NASCAR regularly in part because I got tired of them changing the rules during the season if one manufacturer wasn't doing well enough–if the Fords weren't winning enough, they'd allow them a larger spoiler to make them more competitive, for example. I get that the manufacturers are part of their business model, but I've always felt that if you build a bad car, you lose. Change the rules in the offseason, sure. Changing the rules during the season is unsporting in my mind unless there is a serious safety reason for the change.
With that said, today's dirt race was obviously a publicity stunt, but it was kind of neat to watch part of it. I can't imagine attending it live because of the amount of dirt in the air, though!
Really I'm liking this dirt race a lot more than I thought. The wrecks kind of seem to be collecting a large amount of cars, but I could just be imaging that.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
um what else are they supposed to do?
Simple. Look at what worked. Resume doing it. Fire those who advocating change.
In NASCAR's case.
- Resume racing back to the caution.
- End spotter dependency.
- Have cars that bear at least some relationship to stock.
- End the idiotic chase/playoffs. Who WINS THE RACE, every week, must be the CENTER of the discussion.
- Without saying anyone is unwelcome, embrace and celebrate the culture from which the sport was born.
- Allow drivers to show some personality.
In other words, NASCAR c. 1980-2005 or so.
This brings me to a time in school when we were asked what we wanted to be when we grow up. My response at the time was race car driver. No one ever thought of it nor acknowledged it as a real thing to do back then. They thought it was a hooligan's way to spend the weekend. While my liking of NASCAR began with the 1998 Daytona 500, it peaked in 2005-2006, really that last thread of what really was good NASCAR racing. If I really got into it, I'd probably be in Cup by now, but I certainly would not be anywhere near Dale Jr. or even Kyle Busch levels. But, alas, it's not to be. The NASCAR we have now is a shitshow circus I have so long forgotten since 2011. And you can thank the wretched puke that is Brainless Brian France for the downfall of what was a great motorsport. Emphasis on WHAT WAS A GREAT MOTORSPORT. So, I don't expect NASCAR to live another two to three years perhaps, maybe far shorter than that. Sorry I have to break this out to y'all, but if you really believe the wretched dog shat NASCAR shoves out on a weekly basis, it's about time for a reality check and realize NASCAR has lost its way with its fandom. Its endorsers, sponsors, broadcasters, supporters and fans have been brushed aside. All the races you see on TV now is strictly a TV stunt. There isn't anything real about NASCAR. It looks like a brand new motor going to Hades in a handbasket instead of one that's been well oiled and taken care of. You might say "What does that mean, Billy F?" Well, that analogy means NASCAR is about the shareholders and not the people that built the sport. Hence, the shareholders are the motors going to Hades in a handbasket, and the people who made NASCAR what it truly was supposed to be are the well oiled motors meant to last.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on March 29, 2021, 08:31:20 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
um what else are they supposed to do?
Simple. Look at what worked. Resume doing it. Fire those who advocating change.
In NASCAR's case.
- Resume racing back to the caution.
- End spotter dependency.
- Have cars that bear at least some relationship to stock.
- End the idiotic chase/playoffs. Who WINS THE RACE, every week, must be the CENTER of the discussion.
- Without saying anyone is unwelcome, embrace and celebrate the culture from which the sport was born.
- Allow drivers to show some personality.
In other words, NASCAR c. 1980-2005 or so.
This brings me to a time in school when we were asked what we wanted to be when we grow up. My response at the time was race car driver. No one ever thought of it nor acknowledged it as a real thing to do back then. They thought it was a hooligan's way to spend the weekend. While my liking of NASCAR began with the 1998 Daytona 500, it peaked in 2005-2006, really that last thread of what really was good NASCAR racing. If I really got into it, I'd probably be in Cup by now, but I certainly would not be anywhere near Dale Jr. or even Kyle Busch levels. But, alas, it's not to be. The NASCAR we have now is a shitshow circus I have so long forgotten since 2011. And you can thank the wretched puke that is Brainless Brian France for the downfall of what was a great motorsport. Emphasis on WHAT WAS A GREAT MOTORSPORT. So, I don't expect NASCAR to live another two to three years perhaps, maybe far shorter than that. Sorry I have to break this out to y'all, but if you really believe the wretched dog shat NASCAR shoves out on a weekly basis, it's about time for a reality check and realize NASCAR has lost its way with its fandom. Its endorsers, sponsors, broadcasters, supporters and fans have been brushed aside. All the races you see on TV now is strictly a TV stunt. There isn't anything real about NASCAR. It looks like a brand new motor going to Hades in a handbasket instead of one that's been well oiled and taken care of. You might say "What does that mean, Billy F?" Well, that analogy means NASCAR is about the shareholders and not the people that built the sport. Hence, the shareholders are the motors going to Hades in a handbasket, and the people who made NASCAR what it truly was supposed to be are the well oiled motors meant to last.
Two/three years, you got some sort of basis on NASCAR's financials to that back that up?
And I actually liked today's race. One of the things I wanted even back in the 1980s and 1990s was something different than the standard ovals. I went to a lot of small time dirt tracks on weekends with my Dad, those were always enjoyable. Most of the drivers back then actually came up on short tracks and even dirt ovals, so why not include them in the major stock car series? I think past tense I had more short tracks and road courses in mind, but what I watched today is also acceptable.
I wanted to be a race car driver too as a kid. Trouble was even in middle school I knew that wasn't realistic given that I didn't have any talent and more so parents with finances to back up ambitions to be sustainable in racing. One of the biggest problems trying to get into racing is how over the top expensive it can be.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 29, 2021, 08:43:22 PM
Two/three years, you got some sort of basis on NASCAR's financials to that back that up?
Well, yeah. NASCAR's TV deal, which sports business commentators at the time said might be a bit of an over-bid, expires after the 24 season. Fox and NBC over-bid because they were counting on growth.
Since then NASCAR tracks have TORN DOWN grandstands representing 10s of 1000s of seats. Since then the average TV rating has collapsed by upwards of 60% and, most importantly, shows no sign of leveling off, with new lows reached virtually every week.
In 25, it is entirely possible that NASCAR will be making maybe a quarter to a fifth of what it does now on TV. There is even an outside shot that the networks all simply walk away.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 30, 2021, 10:05:42 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 29, 2021, 08:43:22 PM
Two/three years, you got some sort of basis on NASCAR's financials to that back that up?
Well, yeah. NASCAR's TV deal, which sports business commentators at the time said might be a bit of an over-bid, expires after the 24 season. Fox and NBC over-bid because they were counting on growth.
Since then NASCAR tracks have TORN DOWN grandstands representing 10s of 1000s of seats. Since then the average TV rating has collapsed by upwards of 60% and, most importantly, shows no sign of leveling off, with new lows reached virtually every week.
In 25, it is entirely possible that NASCAR will be making maybe a quarter to a fifth of what it does now on TV. There is even an outside shot that the networks all simply walk away.
That still doesn't mean they are going out of business. Most of NASCAR's divisions don't even get featured on TV. It sounds a lot like what happened to the NHL years ago when they had most of their broadcast rights not renewed. That ain't good, but NASCAR could get creative with streaming or better yet try to negotiate something in line with reality.
I think an exclusive streaming app would definitely help NASCAR out, it's only a matter of time.
Quote from: kenarmy on March 30, 2021, 10:30:46 AM
I think an exclusive streaming app would definitely help NASCAR out, it's only a matter of time.
It would be a huge help for me. I'm not always in position to watch network TV on weekends like I was in the past.
Lately the winner of the Daytona 500 has been decided based on how trigger happy NASCAR has been to bring out the caution. In the 2020 Daytona 500 had the caution come out a split second earlier Ryan Blaney would have won instead of Denny Hamlin and in the 2021 Daytona 500 had the caution come out a split second later Chase Elliott would have won and not Matt DiBenedetto. There is also a delay from when the NASCAR official pushes the button in the tower to bring out the caution and when the caution lights are actually displayed on the track (possibly a few seconds delay). It just feels like this shouldn't be the way to decide the winner of the biggest race of the year.
Quote from: Alps on March 29, 2021, 06:17:16 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on March 28, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: kenarmy on March 27, 2021, 02:24:02 PM
um what else are they supposed to do?
Simple. Look at what worked. Resume doing it. Fire those who advocating change.
In NASCAR's case.
- Resume racing back to the caution.
- End spotter dependency.
- Have cars that bear at least some relationship to stock.
- End the idiotic chase/playoffs. Who WINS THE RACE, every week, must be the CENTER of the discussion.
- Without saying anyone is unwelcome, embrace and celebrate the culture from which the sport was born.
- Allow drivers to show some personality.
In other words, NASCAR c. 1980-2005 or so.
I'm not a watcher, but I agree with #1, #3, #4, #4, #4, #4, and somewhat #6 (depends on what they're gonna say when unmuzzled).
Thou shalt not criticize the sanctioning body.
I forget the precise issue, but several years ago when he was still driving, Tony Stewart criticized NASCAR over some rule and they fined him. Now, Tony was a throwback and he said what was on his mind the way Earnhardt, DW, Rusty, and a lot of others used to. But where Big Bill France would listen to what those drivers were saying, times had changed and Smoke got a huge fine. A group of drivers pitched in to pay that fine because they agreed with what Stewart had said.
But beyond that, at one time the new leadership saw that NASCAR had gotten a little bland so they said, and I quote, "Boys, have at it." Right now, I don't know how many really truly heated rivalries there are between the drivers. I know there's bad blood between Logano and some of the others, but you don't really hear a lot of trash talking the way you used to when "Jaws" ranked his provocative remarks toward one particular driver as to how they'd register on the "Cale Scale."
maybe I do complain sometimes..
but NASCAR fans confuse me. Some will bark at the (chase) playoff system, but got upset when Kenseth won in 03, and don't realize that it's in favor of their favorite driver. Some people don't want -change-, but get upset when NASCAR resurrects traditional things *cough*. Some people say they will stop watching, yet they always bring up that viewership is declining. Even the king had to mention that NASCAR was frowned upon for dirt racing back then. Misery will always find its company : )
Quote from: hbelkins on March 30, 2021, 09:49:01 PM
there's bad blood between Logano and some all of the others
Anyone getting excited for Talladega? That will always be my favorite track largely due to the fact i was always a huge Earnhardt fan and the man just dominated there.
Talladega is always the race I look forward to the most. Idk who to root for though since my fave retired recently :-P.
I always look forward to the Dega races. I have a strict "dont bother me" policy. Nothing on the calendar and spend the afternoon watching the entire race and the Xfinity & Truck races along with the ARCA wreck fest races there too. Its on my bucket list to go there someday.
Quote from: TonyTrafficLight on April 09, 2021, 09:13:45 AM
I always look forward to the Dega races. I have a strict "dont bother me" policy. Nothing on the calendar and spend the afternoon watching the entire race and the Xfinity & Truck races along with the ARCA wreck fest races there too. Its on my bucket list to go there someday.
I've driven as close as AL-77 in Lincoln. I hope they do more tornado fundraiser events like the one earlier this month where you could drive two laps behind a pace car for a 50 dollar donation.
The Daytona 500 is the only superspeedway event I watch start to finish. The other Daytona race and the Talladega races are ones that I tune into for the last 30 laps where the 24th place car still has enough time to get up to 1st, drop back to 24th, and get back to the front and win.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nascar/news/nascar-at-talladega-live-updates-results-highlights/54xss0qdjj4h1rihajlbp6u28
1. I was disappointed Brad won, but at least it wasn't Joey
2. Speaking of, I was bracing to hear Joey cuss or disrespect Denny Hamlin when he caused him to wreck out early.
3. I thought Bubba Wallace was going to get top 10 : (
4. Ok and I kinda wanted a bigger wreck to happen..
Quote from: kenarmy on April 26, 2021, 10:02:16 PM
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nascar/news/nascar-at-talladega-live-updates-results-highlights/54xss0qdjj4h1rihajlbp6u28
1. I was disappointed Brad won, but at least it wasn't Joey
2. Speaking of, I was bracing to hear Joey cuss or disrespect Denny Hamlin when he caused him to wreck out early.
3. I thought Bubba Wallace was going to get top 10 : (
4. Ok and I kinda wanted a bigger wreck to happen..
Joey said in his interview on TV that he didn't blame Denny, Ricky or anyone else around him; he was just upset that he could have been seriously injured like Ryan Newman last year and cited NASCAR's current superspeedway package.
https://www.jayski.com/2021/05/02/sad-news-eric-mcclure/
I am not sure why I feel more impacted by the death of Eric McClure than most other deaths considering that he was a backmarker, but his unexpected passing does show that we can pass away at any time.
Very shady move by NASCAR yesterday. In the middle of a cycle of green flag pit stops, a tire got loose and rolled out to the grass area between pit road and the front stretch. They waited well over a dozen laps for the late-pitting leader to finally pit, so that nobody got caught a lap down.
That tire was either a safety hazard or it wasn't, it didn't become one 10 minutes later. A caution in the middle of a cycle of pit stops is part of the risk/reward of the sport.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 02, 2021, 01:12:28 PM
https://www.jayski.com/2021/05/02/sad-news-eric-mcclure/
I am not sure why I feel more impacted by the death of Eric McClure than most other deaths considering that he was a backmarker, but his unexpected passing does show that we can pass away at any time.
HE was a cool dude. Got to meet him a few times at the Bristol Street Fair. He also remembered seeing me at the #4 MMM shop as well.
Also took this video of him @ the Bristol Street Fair when I was a mod at the early FRM forum before it became a bigger team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rrv4GOa9eE
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 03, 2021, 08:27:22 AM
Very shady move by NASCAR yesterday. In the middle of a cycle of green flag pit stops, a tire got loose and rolled out to the grass area between pit road and the front stretch. They waited well over a dozen laps for the late-pitting leader to finally pit, so that nobody got caught a lap down.
That tire was either a safety hazard or it wasn't, it didn't become one 10 minutes later. A caution in the middle of a cycle of pit stops is part of the risk/reward of the sport.
My thought on this was that NASCAR usually waits until green flag pit stops are completed to not mess up the running order (except for that time when the pit crew member for Marcos Ambrose ran after the tire on the other side of pit road which of course immediately brought out the caution). Of course, we all know the only thing consistent about NASCAR is how inconsistent they are.
Summary of today's race at Circuit of the Americas:
Lap 25: It is too unsafe to race. The race should be red flagged.
Lap 55: NASCAR gives Chase Elliott a gift win though it was just as unsafe to race as it was on Lap 25.
NASCAR can never win even when they seem to be right.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 02, 2021, 01:12:28 PM
https://www.jayski.com/2021/05/02/sad-news-eric-mcclure/
I am not sure why I feel more impacted by the death of Eric McClure than most other deaths considering that he was a backmarker, but his unexpected passing does show that we can pass away at any time.
Every time I watched the highlight of the Xfinity race at Talladega of the Big One toward the end stages, I cringed every time seeing McClure's car fly nearly headlong into the SAFER barrier. Many times when I hear Allen Bestwick call out "Oh, what a vicious crash!" and he calls attention to McClure, I instantly clinched my fist and face because I just knew that was a nasty wreck. I think the end results from that wreck may have triggered life-threatening symptoms that led up to his passing. So sad.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 23, 2021, 06:44:17 PM
Summary of today's race at Circuit of the Americas:
Lap 25: It is too unsafe to race. The race should be red flagged.
Lap 55: NASCAR gives Chase Elliott a gift win though it was just as unsafe to race as it was on Lap 25.
NASCAR can never win even when they seem to be right.
I was watching a 50 year old win a golf major, so I missed this race, but this was my understanding from what I was reading: NASCAR really wanted to wait until Chase pitted to call the race to make it fair, but he forced their hand by staying out as long as he possibly could and the conditions just got more and more dangerous, so they had no choice. Smart move on his part. His teammate was going to be the winner anyway so it doesn't really matter that much.
I was digging the wreck fest the race started to turn into it is once the water settled on the track. Either way, definitely unique to see a NASCAR race in the rain.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2021, 07:53:05 AM
I was digging the wreck fest the race started to turn into it is once the water settled on the track. Either way, definitely unique to see a NASCAR race in the rain.
I'm glad there are more road courses. For such a long time, there were only two, and that was ridiculous because when they made up such a small portion of the schedule and you didn't have to care a bit about them to be a championship team. They either needed to get rid of them completely or add more of them, and I'm glad they chose the latter.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 24, 2021, 07:56:17 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2021, 07:53:05 AM
I was digging the wreck fest the race started to turn into it is once the water settled on the track. Either way, definitely unique to see a NASCAR race in the rain.
I'm glad there are more road courses. For such a long time, there were only two, and that was ridiculous because when they made up such a small portion of the schedule and you didn't have to care a bit about them to be a championship team. They either needed to get rid of them completely or add more of them, and I'm glad they chose the latter.
I'm fine with the more diverse set of tracks, the Bristol dirt race was also something I enjoyed. I was never a particular fan of all the 1.5 mile clone tracks that began to pop up when NASCAR began becoming mainstream. The series had a history of being on a wider assortment of tracks pre-1972 so I don't see any reason why things couldn't be shook up now.
The biggest redeeming quality of the race at COTA was the fact that it did rain. It definitely added some excitement to the race and without it i probably would have fallen asleep watching.
Upon seeing the Sonoma road course for the first time, the late Dale Earnhardt said, "They (sic) has got to be a three quarters mile dirt track out here somewhere they could buy, pave, and put seats around".
Dale was right. The COTA race was an embarrassment and a failure because is was pre-ordained to be such. The pursuit of "something different" is illogical. You play football on football fields, you play basketball on basketball courts, you play baseball in baseball parks. And proper NASCAR races are run on ovals.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 08:55:37 AM
Upon seeing the Sonoma road course for the first time, the late Dale Earnhardt said, "They (sic) has got to be a three quarters mile dirt track out here somewhere they could buy, pave, and put seats around".
Dale was right. The COTA race was an embarrassment and a failure because is was pre-ordained to be such. The pursuit of "something different" is illogical. You play football on football fields, you play basketball on basketball courts, you play baseball in baseball parks. And proper NASCAR races are run on ovals.
Maybe it's time to stop judging a sport's existence in 2021 by the thoughts of someone who died 20 years ago, and whose son has already had an entire career and retired.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 24, 2021, 09:21:47 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 08:55:37 AM
Upon seeing the Sonoma road course for the first time, the late Dale Earnhardt said, "They (sic) has got to be a three quarters mile dirt track out here somewhere they could buy, pave, and put seats around".
Dale was right. The COTA race was an embarrassment and a failure because is was pre-ordained to be such. The pursuit of "something different" is illogical. You play football on football fields, you play basketball on basketball courts, you play baseball in baseball parks. And proper NASCAR races are run on ovals.
Maybe it's time to stop judging a sport's existence in 2021 by the thoughts of someone who died 20 years ago, and whose son has already had an entire career and retired.
Not to mention several NASCAR tracks aren't ovals.
Not to mention rules in those sports have changed over the years.
Not to mention football and basketball games are played on consistently sized fields of play. NASCAR is more like baseball fields. There are some consistent rules. But each course has a unique set of features, similar to the dimensions of the overall baseball field. Even the regulation length of the races can be different, which is a fairly unique trait among sporting events. Baseball games going 7 innings rather than 9 last year on double header days is such an example.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2021, 09:42:35 AM
.... Baseball games going 7 innings rather than 9 last year on double header days is such an example.
That rule is in place this year as well. Proved controversial earlier this year when a pitcher threw a no-hitter in such a game but was not recognized by MLB as having done so due to a rule enacted in 1991 that says (among other things) you must pitch nine innings to be credited with a no-hitter.
I did have one question regarding the wipers on the cars...did some of them malfunction? During the rain, some drivers were using them, some weren't, and some seem to have them "shuttering" or only half turning.
One of the most entertaining moments of the race...Kurt Busch threading the needle...https://m.nascar.com/video/franchise/nascar-cup-highlights/kurt-busch-keeps-it-moving-after-running-off-at-cota/ . On a traditional NASCAR track he slams hard into the wall. Here, he goes into what is basically a runaway truck ramp, keeps it moving, and re-enters the track without so much as a yellow flag being issued for the course.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 24, 2021, 09:21:47 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 08:55:37 AM
Upon seeing the Sonoma road course for the first time, the late Dale Earnhardt said, "They (sic) has got to be a three quarters mile dirt track out here somewhere they could buy, pave, and put seats around".
Dale was right. The COTA race was an embarrassment and a failure because is was pre-ordained to be such. The pursuit of "something different" is illogical. You play football on football fields, you play basketball on basketball courts, you play baseball in baseball parks. And proper NASCAR races are run on ovals.
Maybe it's time to stop judging a sport's existence in 2021 by the thoughts of someone who died 20 years ago, and whose son has already had an entire career and retired.
See part of the problem with racing in general is that it way too stuck trying to chase the specter of drivers that are long retired and/or dead. I don't see how yesterday's race was anymore of an embarrassment than a wreck filled super speedway race. Not mention road course racing has been part of NASCAR even before Dale Earnhardt.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2021, 10:00:29 AM
I did have one question regarding the wipers on the cars...did some of them malfunction? During the rain, some drivers were using them, some weren't, and some seem to have them "shuttering" or only half turning.
One of the most entertaining moments of the race...Kurt Busch threading the needle...https://m.nascar.com/video/franchise/nascar-cup-highlights/kurt-busch-keeps-it-moving-after-running-off-at-cota/ . On a traditional NASCAR track he slams hard into the wall. Here, he goes into what is basically a runaway truck ramp, keeps it moving, and re-enters the track without so much as a yellow flag being issued for the course.
Yeah, I think this is one of the big issues that NASCAR needs to work on moving forward. It is odd to me that they only use one wiper instead of two like most regular vehicles.
Short history of NASCAR.
It was a, mostly, southern sport. Then came satellite TV, with 1000s of hours to fill. ESPN, et al, pointed its cameras at it, and people liked what they saw. So it expanded. Building proper oval tracks around the country. So people could see it locally. Not really that different from what happened to football 25 or so years earlier, as regular TV became almost universal, and people saw the sport, and liked what they saw. So it expanded. Building proper football fields around the country.
Not 80 yard fields, not fields with flame pits in the middle, not round fields, not gravel covered fields. No, not trying the be "different", but rather being THE SAME.
Sadly, NASCAR had a generational shift in management, and it listened to people who had no respect for or understanding of the sport. These bright ideas have created an unprecedented in the entire history of sports rapid decline in its popularity. Now these bright idea empty suits have decided that the latest gimmick is to have "different" tracks. Road courses, dirt, and soon city streets, beaches, and probably figure 8s.
None of this will do anything but further harm the sport.
NASCAR used to run a non-points race on a modified figure 8: Suzuka in Japan. They didn't use the entire circuit, however.
NASCAR also used to run on a beach (Daytona) until it was replaced by the speedway there, in part due to the beachfront course being deemed unsafe.
BTW, what exactly is a "proper oval track"? I see a variety of different styles of ovals in use–you have the ubiquitous and much-overdone "trioval" style, but there are also some more unique ones like Darlington, and then there are the various short tracks. IIRC, the old Nazareth Speedway was a D-shaped oval. SP Cook seems to be advocating for all of them to be exactly the same as each other. I guess if you can't understand anything other than "go fast and turn left," that might appeal to you. He probably thinks it's wrong that different ballparks used for baseball have different outfield wall dimensions, too.
I didn't watch much of yesterday's race because we wanted to watch the PGA Championship instead, but I did watch the start in part to see whether they'd make it through the first corner without a big crash. I thought it was rather interesting to see the stock cars running on an F1 circuit.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 11:35:01 AM
Short history of NASCAR.
It was a, mostly, southern sport.
NASCAR surged past IndyCar as the most popular motorsport in the US precisely because they stopped being a southern sport.
Let's go through the current and recent top drivers and pick out the drivers who would today be IndyCar drivers instead of NASCAR drivers if NASCAR had remained a southern sport.
To start with, three of the top team owners, Stewart, Penske and Ganassi never get into a NASCAR that is still a southern sport.
The now-retired two best drivers of this century, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, are both from California (one via Indiana). Very likely never got into a NASCAR that was still a southern sport.
Kyle Larson and Kevin Harvick are also Californian and probably never get into NASCAR.
Joey Logano from Connecticut almost certainly never considers NASCAR.
Martin Truex Jr from New Jersey unlikely to consider NASCAR.
Brad Keselowski from Michigan might not consider NASCAR (though Michigan is the one non-southern state that has long had strong NASCAR ties due to being the HQ of the manufactureres)
The Busch brothers from Las Vegas probably not going into NASCAR.
Ryan Newman from Indiana definitely never going into NASCAR.
You don't have a lot of top drivers left.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 11:35:01 AM
Short history of NASCAR.
It was a, mostly, southern sport. Then came satellite TV, with 1000s of hours to fill. ESPN, et al, pointed its cameras at it, and people liked what they saw. So it expanded. Building proper oval tracks around the country. So people could see it locally. Not really that different from what happened to football 25 or so years earlier, as regular TV became almost universal, and people saw the sport, and liked what they saw. So it expanded. Building proper football fields around the country.
Not 80 yard fields, not fields with flame pits in the middle, not round fields, not gravel covered fields. No, not trying the be "different", but rather being THE SAME.
Sadly, NASCAR had a generational shift in management, and it listened to people who had no respect for or understanding of the sport. These bright ideas have created an unprecedented in the entire history of sports rapid decline in its popularity. Now these bright idea empty suits have decided that the latest gimmick is to have "different" tracks. Road courses, dirt, and soon city streets, beaches, and probably figure 8s.
None of this will do anything but further harm the sport.
Times change.
To me, NASCAR should go more 'back to its roots' as a bunch of late night moonshine runners tearing along down southern country backroads. As such, I very much like having road courses on the schedule. (Maybe add a timed 'rally' stage? :spin: Naaaaah, wouldn't be safe.) Road courses also more closely simulate the driving that we do every day. I also wouldn't mind seeing a temporary street course every year, too.
The 'cookie cutter' tracks were an abomination, IMHO.
Road America on the July 4th weekend. That will be the Cup's first ever foray into Wisconsin and it will be a SUWEET road course race on a SUWEET track!
Mike
I had a thought. How many people remember when the NASCAR Winston Cup Season opened at Riverside on a road course?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2021, 03:32:50 PM
I had a thought. How many people remember when the NASCAR Winston Cup Season opened at Riverside on a road course?
They also went to the likes of Road America and VIR in the “good old days”.
Dale Jr’s “Ghost Tracks” show also featured a road course in...Georgia I think? that was used a few times in the 50s-60s.
Edit: it was Augusta International Raceway, used in 1964. 3-mile road course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusta_International_Raceway
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2021, 03:32:50 PM
I had a thought. How many people remember when the NASCAR Winston Cup Season opened at Riverside on a road course?
I wasn't alive then but I knew that. Road courses have been part of NASCAR since its inception.
In addition, despite having traditionally Southern roots, NASCAR's inaugural season had two races in Pennsylvania and one in New York. In fact, quite a few early NASCAR races were held in the North, and what is now the Cup Series even raced in Arizona as early as 1951.
Quote from: Takumi on May 24, 2021, 03:45:12 PM
They also went to the likes of Road America and VIR in the "good old days" .
Dale Jr's "Ghost Tracks" show also featured a road course in...Georgia I think? that was used a few times in the 50s-60s.
Edit: it was Augusta International Raceway, used in 1964. 3-mile road course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusta_International_Raceway
Interesting, I had no idea Fireball Roberts designed that course.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 24, 2021, 03:04:26 PM
To me, NASCAR should go more 'back to its roots' as a bunch of late night moonshine runners tearing along down southern country backroads. As such, I very much like having road courses on the schedule. (Maybe add a timed 'rally' stage? :spin: Naaaaah, wouldn't be safe.) Road courses also more closely simulate the driving that we do every day. I also wouldn't mind seeing a temporary street course every year, too.
The 'cookie cutter' tracks were an abomination, IMHO.
Road America on the July 4th weekend. That will be the Cup's first ever foray into Wisconsin and it will be a SUWEET road course race on a SUWEET track!
Mike
The Cup series went to Road America once before, all the way back in 1956. The winner, Tim Flock, was quoted by Sports Illustrated as saying “road racing is all right”.
https://vault.si.com/vault/1956/08/20/they-laughed-when-nascars-stock-cars-took-to-the-road-at-elkhart-lake-but-tim-flock-gave-the-show-a-detroit-surprise
Also, my first time going to Charlotte Motor Speedway was to see the inaugural Roval race. Hadn’t considered going there before since it was the prototypical cookie cutter track, despite its age. Bruton Smith, the track owner, passed right by me on the grounds of the track, being chauffeured in a Maybach Mercedes.
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 24, 2021, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 11:35:01 AM
Short history of NASCAR.
It was a, mostly, southern sport.
NASCAR surged past IndyCar as the most popular motorsport in the US precisely because they stopped being a southern sport.
Let's go through the current and recent top drivers and pick out the drivers who would today be IndyCar drivers instead of NASCAR drivers if NASCAR had remained a southern sport.
To start with, three of the top team owners, Stewart, Penske and Ganassi never get into a NASCAR that is still a southern sport.
The now-retired two best drivers of this century, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, are both from California (one via Indiana). Very likely never got into a NASCAR that was still a southern sport.
Kyle Larson and Kevin Harvick are also Californian and probably never get into NASCAR.
Joey Logano from Connecticut almost certainly never considers NASCAR.
Martin Truex Jr from New Jersey unlikely to consider NASCAR.
Brad Keselowski from Michigan might not consider NASCAR (though Michigan is the one non-southern state that has long had strong NASCAR ties due to being the HQ of the manufactureres)
The Busch brothers from Las Vegas probably not going into NASCAR.
Ryan Newman from Indiana definitely never going into NASCAR.
You don't have a lot of top drivers left.
You're probably right about most of those, but NASCAR has had a long-standing minor league presence in the northeast and west coast (the old Busch North/East and Winston West, now the K&N Pro Series), so you may have seen a couple of those. Truex most likely, as his dad was a longtime Busch North driver and he sounds like he's from North Carolina anyway.
We definitely don't see the open wheel exodus, so no Danica in NASCAR, but also likely no Juan Pablo Montoya, who is for my money the most versatile driver so far this century. Wins in NASCAR, F1, IMSA, and IndyCar all in the past 20 years.
Quote from: Takumi on May 24, 2021, 07:06:39 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 24, 2021, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 11:35:01 AM
Short history of NASCAR.
It was a, mostly, southern sport.
NASCAR surged past IndyCar as the most popular motorsport in the US precisely because they stopped being a southern sport.
Let's go through the current and recent top drivers and pick out the drivers who would today be IndyCar drivers instead of NASCAR drivers if NASCAR had remained a southern sport.
To start with, three of the top team owners, Stewart, Penske and Ganassi never get into a NASCAR that is still a southern sport.
The now-retired two best drivers of this century, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, are both from California (one via Indiana). Very likely never got into a NASCAR that was still a southern sport.
Kyle Larson and Kevin Harvick are also Californian and probably never get into NASCAR.
Joey Logano from Connecticut almost certainly never considers NASCAR.
Martin Truex Jr from New Jersey unlikely to consider NASCAR.
Brad Keselowski from Michigan might not consider NASCAR (though Michigan is the one non-southern state that has long had strong NASCAR ties due to being the HQ of the manufactureres)
The Busch brothers from Las Vegas probably not going into NASCAR.
Ryan Newman from Indiana definitely never going into NASCAR.
You don't have a lot of top drivers left.
You're probably right about most of those, but NASCAR has had a long-standing minor league presence in the northeast and west coast (the old Busch North/East and Winston West, now the K&N Pro Series), so you may have seen a couple of those. Truex most likely, as his dad was a longtime Busch North driver and he sounds like he's from North Carolina anyway.
We definitely don't see the open wheel exodus, so no Danica in NASCAR, but also likely no Juan Pablo Montoya, who is for my money the most versatile driver so far this century. Wins in NASCAR, F1, IMSA, and IndyCar all in the past 20 years.
A lot of people forget how popular CART really was until it split up in the 1990s. It wasn't really until that decade that NASCAR probably surpassed the talent level of a typical open wheel racing field.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2021, 07:32:23 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 24, 2021, 07:06:39 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 24, 2021, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2021, 11:35:01 AM
Short history of NASCAR.
It was a, mostly, southern sport.
NASCAR surged past IndyCar as the most popular motorsport in the US precisely because they stopped being a southern sport.
Let's go through the current and recent top drivers and pick out the drivers who would today be IndyCar drivers instead of NASCAR drivers if NASCAR had remained a southern sport.
To start with, three of the top team owners, Stewart, Penske and Ganassi never get into a NASCAR that is still a southern sport.
The now-retired two best drivers of this century, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, are both from California (one via Indiana). Very likely never got into a NASCAR that was still a southern sport.
Kyle Larson and Kevin Harvick are also Californian and probably never get into NASCAR.
Joey Logano from Connecticut almost certainly never considers NASCAR.
Martin Truex Jr from New Jersey unlikely to consider NASCAR.
Brad Keselowski from Michigan might not consider NASCAR (though Michigan is the one non-southern state that has long had strong NASCAR ties due to being the HQ of the manufactureres)
The Busch brothers from Las Vegas probably not going into NASCAR.
Ryan Newman from Indiana definitely never going into NASCAR.
You don't have a lot of top drivers left.
You're probably right about most of those, but NASCAR has had a long-standing minor league presence in the northeast and west coast (the old Busch North/East and Winston West, now the K&N Pro Series), so you may have seen a couple of those. Truex most likely, as his dad was a longtime Busch North driver and he sounds like he's from North Carolina anyway.
We definitely don't see the open wheel exodus, so no Danica in NASCAR, but also likely no Juan Pablo Montoya, who is for my money the most versatile driver so far this century. Wins in NASCAR, F1, IMSA, and IndyCar all in the past 20 years.
A lot of people forget how popular CART really was until it split up in the 1990s. It wasn't really until that decade that NASCAR probably surpassed the talent level of a typical open wheel racing field.
That was reflected, interestingly, in the TV series Home Improvement. For most of the series, Tim was all about open wheel. IndyCar drivers as guests on the show, frequently talking about Indy. In the last season, which was after the split, he plans to go to a NASCAR race for his birthday but doesn't.
Also, I remember the day Ayrton Senna died, Senior paid tribute to him in victory lane first thing in his interview.
https://youtu.be/iq6mVAXegyw
Real recognize real.
CART. A lot of open wheel only fans have this mythology that the CART series and its decision to become an outlaw series when the IRL was formed had something to do with NASCAR's growth.
Truth is NASCAR was far ahead of CART long before the IRL was formed, and in fact, taking control from the CART mismanagement was the prime reason the IRL had to be formed. CART participation was really not based on "talent", it was a bunch of foreign rich kids who had flunked out of the Formula One progression, combined with a few has beens and never weres. It was, perhaps, the worst racing series ever.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2021, 12:11:06 PM
CART. A lot of open wheel only fans have this mythology that the CART series and its decision to become an outlaw series when the IRL was formed had something to do with NASCAR's growth.
Truth is NASCAR was far ahead of CART long before the IRL was formed, and in fact, taking control from the CART mismanagement was the prime reason the IRL had to be formed. CART participation was really not based on "talent", it was a bunch of foreign rich kids who had flunked out of the Formula One progression, combined with a few has beens and never weres. It was, perhaps, the worst racing series ever.
There is certainly a progression from USAC, to CART onwards to the IRL in terms of the diminishing stature of open wheel racing in the United States. It is hard to argue that probably until the 1980s that NASCAR was even on the same level in terms of driver talent and quality teams compared to CART or even USAC before it. The further back in time you go with NASCAR the less competitive the racing field gets. Before the 1980s it wasn't uncommon for a top flight team and driver to win by a lap or more.
Two pieces of news this week:
1. Kyle Larson gets a two-year extension with Hendrick, with hendrickcars.com continuing to be the primary sponsor. From what I've seen, this was Rick Hendrick's decision to continue the sponsorship, as he says that he's had outside interest about sponsoring Larson.
https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/larson-contract-extension-hendrick-2023/6630292/
2. Austin Cindric will replace Brad Keselowski in the 2 next year, not the Wood Brothers car as originally planned. Keselowski is all but confirmed to be moving to Roush next year to take an ownership stake, while the Wood Brothers car will go, oddly, to Harrison Burton, currently a Gibbs development driver.
https://www.espn.com/racing/story/_/id/31821816/nascar-champ-brad-keselowski-leave-team-penske-austin-cindric-step-next-season
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2021, 12:11:06 PM
CART. A lot of open wheel only fans have this mythology that the CART series and its decision to become an outlaw series when the IRL was formed had something to do with NASCAR's growth.
Truth is NASCAR was far ahead of CART long before the IRL was formed, and in fact, taking control from the CART mismanagement was the prime reason the IRL had to be formed.
CART always found itself bullied, to be honest. It was borne out of the team owners running at USAC-sanctioned tracks, controlled as a show in the ways NASCAR does now with stock cars. The teams wanted a bigger chunk of the sponsors and receipts, teams/sponsors wanted to break out of the oval mold and get onto street courses and attract money like the FIA did. USAC had a lot more to do with the tracks which they'd run on, so there were two competing series from 1979-1981, with USAC eventually only holding the sweetest peach of all, the Indy 500.
I think NASCAR gets some unfair blame for the IRL split, (some say that Tony George took advice from Bill France and enforced the rules for racing at Indy Motor Speedway), but there was already a feud between the organizers and team owners for which NASCAR was the big winner. After all, the drivers and vehicles seemed more relatable and it all appeared a lot less elitist. CART was dependent on up-and-coming drivers talent in Midwest-based feeder series (Outlaws and midgets), but more of them were headed to NASCAR during the 1990s.
CART was dependent on that talent stream but instead a variety of open-wheel development leagues...never much of an attraction in their own right, especially when they were dependent on second-tier IMSA events to bolster the schedule. And of course, lots of open-wheel racers from Europe who couldn't get into the big time in F1 or sports-prototypes or if the bank account wasn't deep enough. Top that off with the FIA seeing CART as a big enough threat 25-30 years ago, whereby it tried revoke Grade 1 credentials if a track dared to run both F1 and CART's open-wheel races in the same calendar year.
Within a few years of the IRL/CART split, the talent migrated back to IRL because the most important race still resided there. Once the leadership of Roger Penske departed for the IRL, the others struggled anonymously for a few more years. There was barely enough room one top-tier open-wheel series in America, let alone two with middling fields.
IndyCar is pretty much now a spec-series and personally, a lot of the allure disappeared with that formula, though you can at least figure out the talent with similar equipment. (I kind of liked having that middle ground between 3-4 engine suppliers and 2-3 chassis for some variety, but that's a personal decision that's not always in the best interest for the health of a series.) There's a decent mixture of ovals and road courses to make it interesting, but there's only so much time in my life to get attached to it.
The Matty D fans are really upset about the developments at Wood Brothers.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:44:07 AM
The Matty D fans are really upset about the developments at Wood Brothers.
Just saw the news that he is out of the #21. Some big shakeups coming. New startup team Trackhouse Racing is buying out Ganassi. Brad K is leaving Penske to buy into a share of ownership in Roush Fenway and is probably pushing Ryan Newman out of the #6.
And respected YouTube auto racing journalist David Land has reported, and now many in the traditional media have picked up on, that NASCAR may have a very big problem on its hands.
For background, NASCAR is adopting a carbon fiber spec car for 22. Teams would buy the cars from a company called Technique rather than making them themselves as has been the practice. IMHO, pretty much moving NASCAR to being more like IMSA.
Anyway, apparently the crash test dummy "died" during remote controlled crashes simulating historic crashes from NASCAR history. The car was designed with too rigid a frame and too few crush zones. Things that are basic design issues, not easy fixes at this late hour.
Rumors have the project delayed until 23 or 24, or perhaps abandoned altogether. Thing is many teams have already moved away from traditional race shop manufacture , and have told (the spec car will adopt many IMSA features like single lug nuts and Indy type fueling hoses that will make pit stops hardly matter) their over the wall guys to find new work.
Another solution in search of a problem.
I'd heard about the single lug nut move. Wasn't aware of the single-manufacturer body.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 15, 2021, 12:59:37 PM
And respected YouTube auto racing journalist David Land has reported, and now many in the traditional media have picked up on, that NASCAR may have a very big problem on its hands.
For background, NASCAR is adopting a carbon fiber spec car for 22. Teams would buy the cars from a company called Technique rather than making them themselves as has been the practice. IMHO, pretty much moving NASCAR to being more like IMSA.
Anyway, apparently the crash test dummy "died" during remote controlled crashes simulating historic crashes from NASCAR history. The car was designed with too rigid a frame and too few crush zones. Things that are basic design issues, not easy fixes at this late hour.
Rumors have the project delayed until 23 or 24, or perhaps abandoned altogether. Thing is many teams have already moved away from traditional race shop manufacture , and have told (the spec car will adopt many IMSA features like single lug nuts and Indy type fueling hoses that will make pit stops hardly matter) their over the wall guys to find new work.
Another solution in search of a problem.
Wow. The higher ups may have just attempted to murder off what little existence there is left of this once known sport. Oh, once-known, Billy F, you say? How so? If these dubious decisions are set in stone and they execute these plans, there will be no NASCAR. The name NASCAR may as well have been put six feet under. All in the name of what? Appeasement? Appeasement of who? The septillionaire sloths that run this death machine empire that's sort of called NASCAR? Guess we are about to see the funeral of the France family legacy take place. Yep. Kinda what I had expected many years ago. TRASHCAR is all I can think of this pile of junk. If that's the kind of "racin'" you want to see from now on, feel free. I was already out of interest of this sport a long time ago and stuff like this ain't gonna bring me back to the TRASHCAR fandom anytime soon. Common sense replaced with common stupidity. Thanks NASCAR. This ain't for me.
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Sadly, that was expected by me. Everything is a conspiracy to some. I'll never understand that.
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.
That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.
Yes, and everybody knew that the rain was coming. The wreck probably cost them 2-3 more green flag laps, but it's not like someone waiting until the last second to try to get to the front.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 05, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.
That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.
There is people that bitch about the race being fixed every time one is washed out. Considering the circumstances though, it wasn't the time for said crowd to complain again. I'm sure a lot of it is the standard complaining but I'm also sure a lot of it has racial overtones also. Both make the NASCAR fan base look really bad and don't help with the perception that it's full of racist old white dudes.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 05, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.
That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.
There is people that bitch about the race being fixed every time one is washed out. Considering the circumstances though, it wasn't the time for said crowd to complain again. I'm sure a lot of it is the standard complaining but I'm also sure a lot of it has racial overtones also. Both make the NASCAR fan base look really bad and don't help with the perception that it's full of racist old white dudes.
Or you know, they could try rain tires. (Never mind they probably aren't a problem solver, look at F1 at Spa earlier this year.)
Even if it was a fix, it certainly wouldn't be the first time it's happened.
Quote from: formulanone on October 05, 2021, 01:35:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 05, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in ‘63 across the river at a defunct track.
Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Eh, it’s Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.
That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.
There is people that bitch about the race being fixed every time one is washed out. Considering the circumstances though, it wasn’t the time for said crowd to complain again. I’m sure a lot of it is the standard complaining but I’m also sure a lot of it has racial overtones also. Both make the NASCAR fan base look really bad and don’t help with the perception that it’s full of racist old white dudes.
Or you know, they could try rain tires. (Never mind they probably aren't a problem solver, look at F1 at Spa earlier this year.)
They run rain tires at road courses. When they were at COTA earlier this year it rained, and the resulting race was still a shitshow.
Quote
Even if it was a fix, it certainly wouldn't be the first time it's happened.
A big part of me wants to say that if it were fixed, Bubba would have won several times already. (So nobody misinterprets what I mean this time, I’m not saying this as a slight against Bubba, but rather that it would be in NASCAR’s best interest that he won more.)
I have no doubt that NASCAR was happy with the way the race turned out, given the "noose" hoax from last year at Talladega, but if you want evidence it wasn't fixed, look at the fact that they actually started track-drying efforts in an attempt to get the race restarted.
Rain tires? At 'Dega? I don't think so. I'm not sure they're even running them at the road courses now, although that was an experiment for a couple of years.
Also, "Let's Go Brandon!" :-D Move over Chase Elliott, I think Brandon Brown is now NASCAR's most popular driver. They're even chanting for him at concerts and football games!
I agree with the above sentiment. I have heard stuff about rigging races for 30 years. If you believe that it is possible to fake something with that many actors and moving parts (literally and figuratively) you should put your tinfoil hat on and go back to bed.
Strange thing is I have been on a lot of racing websites and have failed completely to notice all this built up anger over Wallace. Probably just another example of people who think they know a lot about people they don't know and places they don't live. The south has been too busy for this stuff for a very long time.
Quote from: SP Cook on October 05, 2021, 04:00:19 PM
I agree with the above sentiment. I have heard stuff about rigging races for 30 years. If you believe that it is possible to fake something with that many actors and moving parts (literally and figuratively) you should put your tinfoil hat on and go back to bed.
Strange thing is I have been on a lot of racing websites and have failed completely to notice all this built up anger over Wallace. Probably just another example of people who think they know a lot about people they don't know and places they don't live. The south has been too busy for this stuff for a very long time.
Yet you believe the NBA is rigged.
Oh, please! For bootin' up cold! You seem to find ways to call it rigged in nearly a handful of sports you watch. Did you really think NASCAR was simply gonna hand over the trophy to Wendell Scott on a silver platter after he CLEARLY won his race fairly? Yeah. Think about that the next time you wanna pout like little kids at the news of Bubba Wallace's first win in a rain shortened event. Man, please!
They need lights at Talladega, period. That way, there's at least a chance to give the fans in the stands a full race.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 05, 2021, 03:15:56 PM
Rain tires? At 'Dega? I don't think so. I'm not sure they're even running them at the road courses now, although that was an experiment for a couple of years.
Rain tires at Dega would be so disastrous it'd almost be hilarious.
They are indeed running them at the road courses, though, they just used them at COTA earlier this year. The New Hampshire race demonstrated why rain tires are still a good idea.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on October 05, 2021, 11:13:56 PM
They need lights at Talladega, period. That way, there's at least a chance to give the fans in the stands a full race.
There has been huge opposition to putting lights at Talladega because fans feel it would diminish the track's "culture", namely the all-night tailgate parties that happen the night before and the night after the race.
Quote from: SP Cook on October 05, 2021, 04:00:19 PM
I agree with the above sentiment. I have heard stuff about rigging races for 30 years. If you believe that it is possible to fake something with that many actors and moving parts (literally and figuratively) you should put your tinfoil hat on and go back to bed.
It's not difficult to imagine that a scrutineer or an official waives something (not just in NASCAR) which is not in public view. It's hard to pull too many strings but easy allow one or two "slip by". Yes, dozens of others are trying their best to win and much more official actions are in the public eye. But decisions made when they're at the discretion of individuals, rather than rules, are always going to be controversial...how and when rain calls off an event is always random-ass.
Rain tires are just my cheeky imagination, sorry about that.
I'm not a fan of night races, it just doesn't look as good on TV, in my opinion.
If NASCAR was fixing races, Kevin Harvick would have won Rockingham in February in 2001. As it was, there were still claims of "fixing" because Steve Park won.
The combination of "restrictor plate" and "rain" is tailor-made for unexpected outcomes. Derrike Cope, Michael Waltrip's second Daytona win, Trevor Bayne, Bubba Wallace ... and yes, Brandon Brown. (Not that all of the above were rain-shortened, but that's the unpredictable nature of plate racing.
Kimi's back!
https://racer.com/2022/05/26/raikkonen-to-make-cup-series-debut-for-trackhouse-at-watkins-glen/
Quote from: Takumi on May 26, 2022, 10:35:56 AM
Kimi's back!
https://racer.com/2022/05/26/raikkonen-to-make-cup-series-debut-for-trackhouse-at-watkins-glen/
Bwoah, the Iceman couldn't stay away!
I hope he actually tries in this series. Watching him in 2021 driving in Formula 1 was not great. I know Alfa had a bad car, but it just didn't seem like he was trying much.
Bwoahmygawd
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 26, 2022, 10:35:56 AM
Kimi's back!
https://racer.com/2022/05/26/raikkonen-to-make-cup-series-debut-for-trackhouse-at-watkins-glen/
Bwoah, the Iceman couldn't stay away!
I hope he actually tries in this series. Watching him in 2021 driving in Formula 1 was not great. I know Alfa had a bad car, but it just didn't seem like he was trying much.
I saw another article that stated that he was mentally checked out in 2021, ready to move on from F1. I remember Montoya saying similar things in 2006, and he still says to this day he doesn't regret leaving F1 when he did. (That doesn't stop people asking for his opinion on it, though. Maybe because his son is a Ferrari junior.)
Quote from: Takumi on May 26, 2022, 09:52:04 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 26, 2022, 10:35:56 AM
Kimi's back!
https://racer.com/2022/05/26/raikkonen-to-make-cup-series-debut-for-trackhouse-at-watkins-glen/
Bwoah, the Iceman couldn't stay away!
I hope he actually tries in this series. Watching him in 2021 driving in Formula 1 was not great. I know Alfa had a bad car, but it just didn't seem like he was trying much.
I saw another article that stated that he was mentally checked out in 2021, ready to move on from F1. I remember Montoya saying similar things in 2006, and he still says to this day he doesn't regret leaving F1 when he did. (That doesn't stop people asking for his opinion on it, though. Maybe because his son is a Ferrari junior.)
I kinda wish he would've left after 2020 then. There's only 20 seats in F1, so to waste one on a driver who doesn't care anymore is kinda lame. I know Kimi is a fan favorite though, and his Grill the Grid segments were funny.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 26, 2022, 10:35:56 AM
Kimi's back!
https://racer.com/2022/05/26/raikkonen-to-make-cup-series-debut-for-trackhouse-at-watkins-glen/
Bwoah, the Iceman couldn't stay away!
I hope he actually tries in this series. Watching him in 2021 driving in Formula 1 was not great. I know Alfa had a bad car, but it just didn't seem like he was trying much.
The problem with road course "ringers" is that they always have to use inferior equipment. The best cars all go to full time drivers. I know it's unlikely to happen, but I'd love to see just one top-level team dedicate a car to a rotating cast of drivers who are specialists at the type of track they are racing that week. Kaulig is kind of doing this with their second car, but they aren't a top tier team yet.
I also imagine Jeff Gordon is wishing NASCAR had expanded from 2 to 6 road course races while he was still driving. He might have hit 100 wins.
Lots of stuff going on.
Chicago street course race announced for 2023. I'll be there for sure.
Kurt Busch withdrew from playoff consideration as he's still out with a concussion. His car is still in the owner's championship playoffs and Bubba Wallace is switching over to the 45 car to attempt to advance that car in the playoffs. Ryan Blaney made the playoffs on points but his car did not make the owner's playoffs.
Kurt's brother Kyle still doesn't have a contract for next year and while Toyota is publicly stating that they are doing everything possible to try to keep him, there are rumors that Kyle already has a deal to drive the Kaulig #16 next year, which is currently being split by Xfinity series drivers.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 02, 2022, 04:49:47 PM
Lots of stuff going on.
Chicago street course race announced for 2023. I'll be there for sure.
Kurt Busch withdrew from playoff consideration as he's still out with a concussion. His car is still in the owner's championship playoffs and Bubba Wallace is switching over to the 45 car to attempt to advance that car in the playoffs. Ryan Blaney made the playoffs on points but his car did not make the owner's playoffs.
Kurt's brother Kyle still doesn't have a contract for next year and while Toyota is publicly stating that they are doing everything possible to try to keep him, there are rumors that Kyle already has a deal to drive the Kaulig #16 next year, which is currently being split by Xfinity series drivers.
From what I gather, the holdup with Kyle's contract is over a sponsor. I don't understand why he doesn't just sign his contract with JGR and then let the sponsorship come when it does.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 03, 2022, 07:18:02 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 02, 2022, 04:49:47 PM
Lots of stuff going on.
Chicago street course race announced for 2023. I'll be there for sure.
Kurt Busch withdrew from playoff consideration as he's still out with a concussion. His car is still in the owner's championship playoffs and Bubba Wallace is switching over to the 45 car to attempt to advance that car in the playoffs. Ryan Blaney made the playoffs on points but his car did not make the owner's playoffs.
Kurt's brother Kyle still doesn't have a contract for next year and while Toyota is publicly stating that they are doing everything possible to try to keep him, there are rumors that Kyle already has a deal to drive the Kaulig #16 next year, which is currently being split by Xfinity series drivers.
From what I gather, the holdup with Kyle's contract is over a sponsor. I don't understand why he doesn't just sign his contract with JGR and then let the sponsorship come when it does.
Well Ty Gibbs is rumored to now be in the 18 next year.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 03, 2022, 07:18:02 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 02, 2022, 04:49:47 PM
Lots of stuff going on.
Chicago street course race announced for 2023. I'll be there for sure.
Kurt Busch withdrew from playoff consideration as he's still out with a concussion. His car is still in the owner's championship playoffs and Bubba Wallace is switching over to the 45 car to attempt to advance that car in the playoffs. Ryan Blaney made the playoffs on points but his car did not make the owner's playoffs.
Kurt's brother Kyle still doesn't have a contract for next year and while Toyota is publicly stating that they are doing everything possible to try to keep him, there are rumors that Kyle already has a deal to drive the Kaulig #16 next year, which is currently being split by Xfinity series drivers.
From what I gather, the holdup with Kyle's contract is over a sponsor. I don't understand why he doesn't just sign his contract with JGR and then let the sponsorship come when it does.
The problem in getting sponsorships in 2022 NASCAR is the huge expenditure of the contract itself with Kyle's sponsor. It's becoming far too expensive for the major endorsers and sponsors to fully fund a NASCAR team like Joe Gibbs Racing. Mars, Inc., who owns the M&M's trademarks, finds it very inefficient now to use NASCAR as a means to advertise their products. Because other newcomer sponsors use the internet and phone app API technology, the need to use motorsports in general is becoming less and less common than 20 years ago when you had about 15 to 20 associate sponsors on one car. That's the main sponsor itself, one or two associated sponsors or endorsements, plus the associated sponsors of the sport like 3M, Wix, Edlebrock, Sunoco, Moog, Clevite, Anheiser-Busch for the Bud Pole Award, Coors for the latter pole award program c. 2015 to 2019, etc. If this had been 2012 and Kyle was in this situation, JGR would have had more wiggle room to let Kyle run Interstate Batteries as his main sponsor instead of M&M's and all of the Wrigley brands. Maybe NOS would have sufficed at that point since NOS is the associate partner of JGR, at least for now it seems. Or, if they really needed to, they could have maybe swapped the sponsors from the 11 to the 18, meaning that if NOS was Denny Hamlin's main sponsor instead of FedEx, then FedEx would go to the 18. Kyle ran FedEx cars in the Xfinity series in the past so it wouldn't have been that large of a stretch. But the economy, as we all well aware of, has really been rocked since the beginning of the Biden administration, and with inflation still an ongoing issue, the corporations partnered with NASCAR have really got themselves in a pickle. While some will survive this rocky economy, others are already crumbling. M&M's is the latest of a series of sponsors that have flatlined and faltered over the last several years. GoDaddy. Budweiser. STP. DeWalt. NAPA. Pennzoil/Shell. Miller Lite. Coors Lite. Amp Energy. The list is nearly endless. It's come to the point where teams have to decide what sponsor they're willing to contract with and for how much they're willing to pony up. It's not that easy. And sponsors in 2022 NASCAR don't come that cheap, either. They're not gonna just let the front door stay open for very long because once they pick the driver to endorse their product, that's who will carry their branding.
Kyle Busch officially moving to the #8 of RCR in 2023. RCR says they will field a 3rd car for Tyler Reddick, who is under contract for 2023 and then moving to 23XI in 2024, but there are rumors that RCR will work out a deal to have him drive Kaulig's #16 or Spire's #77 for a year. Also possible that Kurt Busch retires a year early after his concussion and Reddick moves to 23XI a year early.
JGR owner's grandson Ty Gibbs expected to move into the #18 in 2023, but not officially announced yet.
All three races in the Playoff round of 16 won by non-playoff drivers, though one was won by Bubba Wallace in the #45, who is not in the playoffs himself, but the #45 car is still eligible for the owner's championship by virtue of Kurt Busch's win in the car before his concussion.
The last two races were won by Bubba Wallace and Chris Buescher, both getting their second win after their first was a rain-shortened one.
Nineteen different race winners is certainly something unique I didn't see coming this year.
Also North Wilkesboro is hosting the All-Star Race and a trucks race next season.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 18, 2022, 09:49:33 PM
Nineteen different race winners is certainly something unique I didn't see coming this year.
No, but in hindsight it shouldn't be shocking. Trackhouse and 23XI are newer teams that have big money behind them so while it might be surprising that all four of those drivers won, it's not a shock for any one of the four. RCR has finally moved their operation back in the right direction, and the explosion of road courses (which I love), always opens the door for someone else to win. The only real head-scratchers were Jones and Buescher in two of the last three races. Those teams really didn't seem like they were going to produce race winners this year.
Kyle Busch is going from one organization that is greasing the skids for the owner's grandson to ... another organization where the owner is greasing the skids for his grandson.
Also, to hear NASCAR Twitter tell it, the #18 has become Gibbs' R&D car for the rest of the season.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 19, 2022, 08:03:20 PM
Kyle Busch is going from one organization that is greasing the skids for the owner's grandson to ... another organization where the owner is greasing the skids for his grandson.
Also, to hear NASCAR Twitter tell it, the #18 has become Gibbs' R&D car for the rest of the season.
That being said, nepotism has always been a thing in all forms of motor sports.
Quote from: Takumi on September 18, 2022, 10:01:55 PM
Also North Wilkesboro is hosting the All-Star Race and a trucks race next season.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Pull the reigns on this baby. How in the holy skid plate is that gonna work given that the facility itself has to be completely renovated for that to be a major possibility. It JUST opened back up in August with the CARS tour and the dirt race is yet to come in October. I think it's a little premature to boldly proclaim to the masses of a Cup and Truck series comeback. Cup has not raced at NWS since Jeff Gordon's last win in 1996. As for having the All-Star at NWS, how is the field going to be set? The track is shorter than Charlotte, you can't put a field of 35 to 40 cars at one time. Will they have the same format the current one had? Or will a new one emerge? I've yet to put full stock on believing this to be true. Come back in the spring of '23 when you have an actual source cited as to when this happens.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on September 19, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: Takumi on September 18, 2022, 10:01:55 PM
Also North Wilkesboro is hosting the All-Star Race and a trucks race next season.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Pull the reigns on this baby. How in the holy skid plate is that gonna work given that the facility itself has to be completely renovated for that to be a major possibility. It JUST opened back up in August with the CARS tour and the dirt race is yet to come in October. I think it's a little premature to boldly proclaim to the masses of a Cup and Truck series comeback. Cup has not raced at NWS since Jeff Gordon's last win in 1996. As for having the All-Star at NWS, how is the field going to be set? The track is shorter than Charlotte, you can't put a field of 35 to 40 cars at one time. Will they have the same format the current one had? Or will a new one emerge? I've yet to put full stock on believing this to be true. Come back in the spring of '23 when you have an actual source cited as to when this happens.
I'm not sure what better source I can cite then NASCAR ITSELF.
https://nascar.com/news-media/2022/09/08/cup-series-2023-north-wilkesboro-speedway-all-star-race/
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on September 19, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
and the dirt race is yet to come in October.
Already canceled.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 20, 2022, 09:38:01 AM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on September 19, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
and the dirt race is yet to come in October.
Already canceled.
Awww poop! Rain out? Not enough tickets sold? Or what the heck happened to cause that?
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on September 20, 2022, 05:47:37 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 20, 2022, 09:38:01 AM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on September 19, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
and the dirt race is yet to come in October.
Already canceled.
Awww poop! Rain out? Not enough tickets sold? Or what the heck happened to cause that?
Probably to give the speedway a chance to built with actual restrooms and facilities.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on September 20, 2022, 05:47:37 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 20, 2022, 09:38:01 AM
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on September 19, 2022, 08:59:53 PM
and the dirt race is yet to come in October.
Already canceled.
Awww poop! Rain out? Not enough tickets sold? Or what the heck happened to cause that?
Because they aren't going to tear up the pavement now that they are getting the All-Star race.
Interesting penalties levied after the race for something that happened during the race that the officials either didn't catch, or chose to ignore, regarding Hamlin spinning under caution at Texas.
I was very surprised that none of the drivers complained about the crappy tires. NASCAR must have told them not to say anything derogatory about the garbage Goodyear brought to the track.
Kevin Harvick even made a T-Shirt regarding the "crappy parts" so I guess NASCAR is letting the drivers speak out more.
You mean I'm the first to mention Ross Chastain's "balls to the wall" move at Martinsville to get by Denny Hamlin and into the championship?
I'm becoming a Chastain fan, and I'm not a fan of Hamlin's, so I loved that move.
I was good with Logano winning the championship, but I was rooting for Chastain. I'm just glad Elliott didn't win. I haven't been a fan of his since he dissed Harvick last year.
And I'm genuinely curious what happened to Coy Gibbs. My guess is a massive heart attack. I had a friend who unexpectedly died of a massive heart attack who was younger than Gibbs.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 07, 2022, 02:16:44 PM
You mean I'm the first to mention Ross Chastain's "balls to the wall" move at Martinsville to get by Denny Hamlin and into the championship?
I'm becoming a Chastain fan, and I'm not a fan of Hamlin's, so I loved that move.
I was good with Logano winning the championship, but I was rooting for Chastain. I'm just glad Elliott didn't win. I haven't been a fan of his since he dissed Harvick last year.
And I'm genuinely curious what happened to Coy Gibbs. My guess is a massive heart attack. I had a friend who unexpectedly died of a massive heart attack who was younger than Gibbs.
Oh I didn't know about Elliott dissing Harvick. But anyway, I was hoping anybody but Joey would win the championship but oh well. Hamlin always comes close but never wins.
I happened to see the final laps of the Xfinity race at Martinsville and saw Ty Gibbs knock his teammate into wall for the win. It was hilarious hearing the crowd booing during his interview. :-D
As someone new to NASCAR, how far do you have to push your luck to get a penalty? That move seemed very blatant, but I didn't hear any talk of penalizing it.
Quote from: 7/8 on November 09, 2022, 02:48:27 PM
I happened to see the final laps of the Xfinity race at Martinsville and saw Ty Gibbs knock his teammate into wall for the win. It was hilarious hearing the crowd booing during his interview. :-D
As someone new to NASCAR, how far do you have to push your luck to get a penalty? That move seemed very blatant, but I didn't hear any talk of penalizing it.
Usually it has to be pushed to the point where someone overtly takes out another driver. Bumping into someone or push into them on a short track likely isn't going to be enough to warrant a penalty. There is a more famous example of this when Dale Earnhardt bumped (and wrecked) Terry Labonte to win a race at Bristol.
NASCAR is historically very resistant to taking wins away even if there is some sort of outright cheating is detected. I'm to understand the idea is that it is better to have the fan base know who the winner is and not end up changing it later. Usually only points penalties about the worst that will happen.
Jeff Gordon went to high school at a neighboring district to my wife's, so he's the reason I started following NASCAR. By extension, I've always been a Hendrick fan first. Beyond that, Tony Stewart is from Indiana so SHR is my second favorite, followed by any other Chevy team.
Penske and Gibbs are the lowest for me. Never want to see them win, though I do like Denny Hamlin a bit.
Quote from: 7/8 on November 09, 2022, 02:48:27 PM
As someone new to NASCAR, how far do you have to push your luck to get a penalty? That move seemed very blatant, but I didn't hear any talk of penalizing it.
I think you have to either 1) kill someone 2) SpinGate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Federated_Auto_Parts_400) 3) engine irregularity caught you this week, to get penalized.
It's to the point where bumping a competitor you can't pass on the track is
encouraged, because the assumption is that you'll just get them the next time around, like a TV/movie plot. Part of it is normal - like any motorsports - especially on a short-track...
rubbing's part of racing is kind of an essential part of the sport because otherwise it would be a procession. And that's okay; accidents and mistakes do happen, but when a driver just rage-quits into a win is too much like a video game. I don't care much if
"it was revenge for the ____ race" excuses. A bullshit win is a bullshit win. To the audience, a little chaos makes things interesting.
On the other hand, it's better than F1s half-assed penalty system:
Performed a jump start? 30 second penalty.
Take out you competitor? We'll add on 5-10 seconds.
Also, it's not your fault your engine/transmission blew up, but here...take a 5-place grid penalty.
But that's for another thread.
Putting the bumper to someone for the win, or to gain a position, is pretty much accepted behavior.
It has to be very blatantly retaliatory, such as Kenseth coming back on track to wreck Logano at Martinsville several years ago; or Wallace taking out Larson a couple of weeks ago; before any penalties are levied.
Earnhardt, to my knowledge, never really got too upset if someone used the chrome horn on him for the win. Mayfield did it to him at Pocono one year and I don't remember Earnhardt getting mad about it.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2022, 01:16:01 PM
Putting the bumper to someone for the win, or to gain a position, is pretty much accepted behavior.
It has to be very blatantly retaliatory, such as Kenseth coming back on track to wreck Logano at Martinsville several years ago; or Wallace taking out Larson a couple of weeks ago; before any penalties are levied.
Earnhardt, to my knowledge, never really got too upset if someone used the chrome horn on him for the win. Mayfield did it to him at Pocono one year and I don't remember Earnhardt getting mad about it.
It's still accepted behavior. The issue with Ty Gibbs is that Brandon Jones was his teammate and needed to win to make the championship four. Gibbs was already locked into the championship four, so he had no reason to wreck Jones - the crowd mostly knew this, so that's why the move was unpopular. Any punishment would probably have come from JGR, but given that it's Ty Gibbs, it was horribly unlikely that anything would happen. Brandon Jones was the better man in the end for not wrecking Gibbs the following week at Phoenix (he had several opportunities).
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 09, 2022, 03:22:49 PM
Jeff Gordon went to high school at a neighboring district to my wife's, so he's the reason I started following NASCAR. By extension, I've always been a Hendrick fan first. Beyond that, Tony Stewart is from Indiana so SHR is my second favorite, followed by any other Chevy team.
Penske and Gibbs are the lowest for me. Never want to see them win, though I do like Denny Hamlin a bit.
I got into it when one of my paternal uncles worked at DuPont in Wilmington when Jeff was really good. I've gone on to become a Ford and Penske fan.
The inuagural Chicago street race is coming up soon. I checked into tickets, and the cheapest general admission tickets are $269 and the cheapest reserved seats are $465. I get that you get two race days plus concerts, but I really just want to go to the cup race.
For comparison, we go to the Indy 500 every year and we have very good seats that are $130 each.
There is nothing less NASCAR than a street (parking lot) race in Chicago.
Quote from: SP Cook on June 15, 2023, 01:03:02 PM
There is nothing less NASCAR than a street (parking lot) race in Chicago.
Well, they're closing the streets, but yes, agreed. Chicago isn't the place for people who support treason-in-support-of-slavery.
I have a feeling the NASCAR street race at Chicago is gonna be one and done. Something tells me it's gonna end up being a disaster from both a racing standpoint and a logistical standpoint as it's causing disruption to the city. But I'll watch on TV and see how it actually ends up going.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on June 15, 2023, 01:03:02 PM
There is nothing less NASCAR than a street (parking lot) race in Chicago.
Well, they're closing the streets, but yes, agreed. Chicago isn't the place for people who support treason-in-support-of-slavery.
I like that they are doing more non-ovals and in bigger cities mainly because it triggers the crowd you mentioned.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 15, 2023, 04:13:08 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on June 15, 2023, 01:03:02 PM
There is nothing less NASCAR than a street (parking lot) race in Chicago.
Well, they're closing the streets, but yes, agreed. Chicago isn't the place for people who support treason-in-support-of-slavery.
I like that they are doing more non-ovals and in bigger cities mainly because it triggers the crowd you mentioned.
I am glad that NASCAR is adding more road course races and trying to market to fans in larger cities (would love to see them come to NYC or Philly), but the core fan base is still in the South and nothing can deny that, just look at North Wilkesboro.
Quote from: Dough4872 on June 15, 2023, 04:08:03 PMI have a feeling the NASCAR street race at Chicago is gonna be one and done. Something tells me it's gonna end up being a disaster from both a racing standpoint and a logistical standpoint as it's causing disruption to the city.
I do too. I was watching a press conference about logistics yesterday and no one seems the least bit concerned that LSD will be closed from Grand to 47th while the Kennedy is down to two lanes inbound from Montrose to Ohio, and that there aren't any other north-south limited access roads until you get to the Tri-State (not sure if people will be able to access Lower Wacker from the Grand Street exit or if both levels of the LSD bridge will be closed).
However, it sounds like NASCAR may be paying for the necessary repairs to the streets that are part of the course, so maybe that was one reason the city agreed to this.
I also have a feeling that most of the attendees will stay at, and eat at, hotels and restaurants in far-flung suburbs, since they've been conditioned to believe that Chicago is a war zone where one can't walk to the corner store without dodging bullets. Which means the City won't actually see any additional revenue.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 05:10:09 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on June 15, 2023, 04:08:03 PMI have a feeling the NASCAR street race at Chicago is gonna be one and done. Something tells me it's gonna end up being a disaster from both a racing standpoint and a logistical standpoint as it's causing disruption to the city.
I do too. I was watching a press conference about logistics yesterday and no one seems the least bit concerned that LSD will be closed from Grand to 47th while the Kennedy is down to two lanes inbound from Montrose to Ohio, and that there aren't any other north-south limited access roads until you get to the Tri-State (not sure if people will be able to access Lower Wacker from the Grand Street exit or if both levels of the LSD bridge will be closed).
However, it sounds like NASCAR may be paying for the necessary repairs to the streets that are part of the course, so maybe that was one reason the city agreed to this.
I also have a feeling that most of the attendees will stay at, and eat at, hotels and restaurants in far-flung suburbs, since they've been conditioned to believe that Chicago is a war zone where one can't walk to the corner store without dodging bullets. Which means the City won't actually see any additional revenue.
Take them back to Chicagoland Speedway by any means next year.
Quote from: epzik8 on June 15, 2023, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 05:10:09 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on June 15, 2023, 04:08:03 PMI have a feeling the NASCAR street race at Chicago is gonna be one and done. Something tells me it's gonna end up being a disaster from both a racing standpoint and a logistical standpoint as it's causing disruption to the city.
I do too. I was watching a press conference about logistics yesterday and no one seems the least bit concerned that LSD will be closed from Grand to 47th while the Kennedy is down to two lanes inbound from Montrose to Ohio, and that there aren't any other north-south limited access roads until you get to the Tri-State (not sure if people will be able to access Lower Wacker from the Grand Street exit or if both levels of the LSD bridge will be closed).
However, it sounds like NASCAR may be paying for the necessary repairs to the streets that are part of the course, so maybe that was one reason the city agreed to this.
I also have a feeling that most of the attendees will stay at, and eat at, hotels and restaurants in far-flung suburbs, since they've been conditioned to believe that Chicago is a war zone where one can't walk to the corner store without dodging bullets. Which means the City won't actually see any additional revenue.
Take them back to Chicagoland Speedway by any means next year.
Is anyone else bothered by how assumptive most NASCAR fans are that this event will bomb? I swear the fan base can't accept even the slightest new concept or track type.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 15, 2023, 06:06:34 PMI swear the fan base can't accept even the slightest new concept
From your mouth to God's ears.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 15, 2023, 06:06:34 PMI swear [any] fan base can’t accept even the slightest new concept
fixed for posterity
Even if it is one and done, it's a pretty ballsy attempt. Or as they say it in Skokie, it took some chutzpah.
NASCAR's 20 years of "new concepts" have driven away 2 of 3 fans over that period.
There is a form of racing that involves barely stock appearing cars racing on road courses and city streets. It is called IMSA.
NASCAR, however, is about long races on oval tracks built where land is cheap, often near but certainly not in, a big city.
Quote from: SP Cook on June 16, 2023, 09:19:50 AM
NASCAR's 20 years of "new concepts" have driven away 2 of 3 fans over that period.
There is a form of racing that involves barely stock appearing cars racing on road courses and city streets. It is called IMSA.
NASCAR, however, is about long races on oval tracks built where land is cheap, often near but certainly not in, a big city.
NASCAR does seem to be going back to its roots and racing more at traditional oval tracks in the South. The All-Star Race at North Wilkesboro is a good example, also a second date at Darlington. Most tracks in the South have two dates a year whereas most tracks outside the South only have one date a year. Also hearing there could be changes for next year's schedule including no dirt at Bristol and Indy would go back to the oval as opposed to the road course.
Quote from: epzik8 on June 15, 2023, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2023, 05:10:09 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on June 15, 2023, 04:08:03 PMI have a feeling the NASCAR street race at Chicago is gonna be one and done. Something tells me it's gonna end up being a disaster from both a racing standpoint and a logistical standpoint as it's causing disruption to the city.
I do too. I was watching a press conference about logistics yesterday and no one seems the least bit concerned that LSD will be closed from Grand to 47th while the Kennedy is down to two lanes inbound from Montrose to Ohio, and that there aren't any other north-south limited access roads until you get to the Tri-State (not sure if people will be able to access Lower Wacker from the Grand Street exit or if both levels of the LSD bridge will be closed).
However, it sounds like NASCAR may be paying for the necessary repairs to the streets that are part of the course, so maybe that was one reason the city agreed to this.
I also have a feeling that most of the attendees will stay at, and eat at, hotels and restaurants in far-flung suburbs, since they've been conditioned to believe that Chicago is a war zone where one can't walk to the corner store without dodging bullets. Which means the City won't actually see any additional revenue.
Take them back to Chicagoland Speedway by any means next year.
Hasn't Chicagoland been torn down?
Quote from: hbelkins on June 17, 2023, 12:20:04 AM
Hasn't Chicagoland been torn down?
It has not. They've announced that some of the land around it is for sale for redevelopment as an industrial park, but they haven't done anything with the speedway itself.
Quote from: Konza on June 17, 2023, 03:06:53 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 17, 2023, 12:20:04 AM
Hasn't Chicagoland been torn down?
It has not. They've announced that some of the land around it is for sale for redevelopment as an industrial park, but they haven't done anything with the speedway itself.
I have heard that the track is still race ready based on videos I have watched on YouTube from The Iceberg the last couple years.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 17, 2023, 06:26:47 AM
Quote from: Konza on June 17, 2023, 03:06:53 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 17, 2023, 12:20:04 AM
Hasn't Chicagoland been torn down?
It has not. They've announced that some of the land around it is for sale for redevelopment as an industrial park, but they haven't done anything with the speedway itself.
I have heard that the track is still race ready based on videos I have watched on YouTube from The Iceberg the last couple years.
So if the street course doesn't work out, maybe they can return to Chicagoland in 2024 and keep a race in America's third largest metro area. Chicagoland did have some good racing, look at the 2018 finish between Kyle Busch and Kyle Larson.
Quote from: Dough4872 on June 17, 2023, 09:42:55 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 17, 2023, 06:26:47 AM
Quote from: Konza on June 17, 2023, 03:06:53 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 17, 2023, 12:20:04 AM
Hasn't Chicagoland been torn down?
It has not. They've announced that some of the land around it is for sale for redevelopment as an industrial park, but they haven't done anything with the speedway itself.
I have heard that the track is still race ready based on videos I have watched on YouTube from The Iceberg the last couple years.
So if the street course doesn't work out, maybe they can return to Chicagoland in 2024 and keep a race in America's third largest metro area. Chicagoland did have some good racing, look at the 2018 finish between Kyle Busch and Kyle Larson.
The problem with Chicagoland is that it's a 1.5 mile oval that's just like the dozens of other 1.5 mile ovals out there. They should think about making it smaller.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 17, 2023, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: Dough4872 on June 17, 2023, 09:42:55 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 17, 2023, 06:26:47 AM
Quote from: Konza on June 17, 2023, 03:06:53 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 17, 2023, 12:20:04 AM
Hasn't Chicagoland been torn down?
It has not. They've announced that some of the land around it is for sale for redevelopment as an industrial park, but they haven't done anything with the speedway itself.
I have heard that the track is still race ready based on videos I have watched on YouTube from The Iceberg the last couple years.
So if the street course doesn't work out, maybe they can return to Chicagoland in 2024 and keep a race in America's third largest metro area. Chicagoland did have some good racing, look at the 2018 finish between Kyle Busch and Kyle Larson.
The problem with Chicagoland is that it's a 1.5 mile oval that's just like the dozens of other 1.5 mile ovals out there. They should think about making it smaller.
There's nothing wrong with the 1.5 mile tracks, they have put on good racing lately with the next gen car. On the other hand, short track races have been kind of boring lately.
I guess with a XFinity race being called before halfway that the Chicago Street Race weekend has officially had worse weather than Brandon's road meet last summer. Hopefully, like Brandon's road meet, that the weather will dry out as the day continues.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 02, 2023, 01:50:46 PM
I guess with a XFinity race being called before halfway that the Chicago Street Race weekend has officially had worse weather than Brandon's road meet last summer. Hopefully, like Brandon's road meet, that the weather will dry out as the day continues.
Sounds like that's not the case as now the Cup race is in a holding pattern.
What an amazing finish to the Cup race in Chicago! Congrats to Shane van Gisbergen in his first ever Cup race! First person in 60 years to win their first race in Cup!!
https://twitter.com/NASCARonNBC/status/1675678062451605506
So much for the naysayers thinking the street race would be a dud. I really enjoyed the race today even before it got a great finish.
That race turned the weekend around just like that. I'm glad to see it.
I will have to say the Chicago street race was a great race despite all the weather issues. I hope they come back again and hopefully will consider street races in other cities such as Philly and NYC.
That Cup race was amazing and Shane van Gisbergen is a hell of a driver. I really hope Trackhouse puts him in the #91 for Watkins Glen.
I'm not really a NASCAR fan, but I also enjoyed the Chicago street race last evening. Kind of like the Field of Dreams game in MLB and the Winter Classic in hockey. NASCAR should continue this type of racing.
Anyone else think SVG should run in the Chase? Technically, he qualifies, right?
Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
Anyone else think SVG should run in the Chase? Technically, he qualifies, right?
No, because he does not have a waiver due to being a part-time driver.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 03, 2023, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
Anyone else think SVG should run in the Chase? Technically, he qualifies, right?
No, because he does not have a waiver due to being a part-time driver.
Yeah, part-time drivers aren't eligible for waivers, and there's no way he'll finish in the top 30 in points so he wouldn't be eligible otherwise.
I'd really love to see SVG run the #91 at Watkins Glen next month. I watched some video of his V8 Supercars races on more traditional road courses and I'd love to see him there (especially considering the Glen is my favorite road course in Cup).
The top 30 in points rule has been removed by NASCAR for this season. It has been called by some as the "Corey Lajoie" rule due to him almost winning at Atlanta Superspeedway despite not being Top 30 in points.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 03, 2023, 11:18:52 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 03, 2023, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 03, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
Anyone else think SVG should run in the Chase? Technically, he qualifies, right?
No, because he does not have a waiver due to being a part-time driver.
Yeah, part-time drivers aren't eligible for waivers, and there's no way he'll finish in the top 30 in points so he wouldn't be eligible otherwise.
I'd really love to see SVG run the #91 at Watkins Glen next month. I watched some video of his V8 Supercars races on more traditional road courses and I'd love to see him there (especially considering the Glen is my favorite road course in Cup).
I'd be curious to see what he could do in a full time Cup ride. I say that because when he was asked in the post race interview he gave a surprisingly honest answer about being interested after next year. A lot of the road course guys do kinda okay at best in Cup full time historically. Supercars spec-wise probably is one of the more similar series to what NASCAR Cup is internationally.
On another note, did anyone else realize that the braking guide signs ("700", "600", "500", etc) were US route shields with orange tape around the edges? :D
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 03, 2023, 12:30:42 AM
I will have to say the Chicago street race was a great race despite all the weather issues. I hope they come back again and hopefully will consider street races in other cities such as Philly and NYC.
I found myself thinking of F1's failed effort to run on a street circuit in Weehawken, New Jersey, and I found myself thinking I'd like to see NASCAR try that because of the major elevation change due to the cliffs.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 03, 2023, 01:19:43 PM
On another note, did anyone else realize that the braking guide signs ("700", "600", "500", etc) were US route shields with orange tape around the edges? :D
Yeah I noticed, Bob Pockrass tweeted a picture of them this weekend.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 03, 2023, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 03, 2023, 12:30:42 AM
I will have to say the Chicago street race was a great race despite all the weather issues. I hope they come back again and hopefully will consider street races in other cities such as Philly and NYC.
I found myself thinking of F1's failed effort to run on a street circuit in Weehawken, New Jersey, and I found myself thinking I'd like to see NASCAR try that because of the major elevation change due to the cliffs.
I would love to see NASCAR do the street course in Weehawken that F1 once planned to do. Would offer great views of NYC and be a great way to get NASCAR into America's largest media market and attempt to gain new fans.
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 03, 2023, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 03, 2023, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 03, 2023, 12:30:42 AM
I will have to say the Chicago street race was a great race despite all the weather issues. I hope they come back again and hopefully will consider street races in other cities such as Philly and NYC.
I found myself thinking of F1's failed effort to run on a street circuit in Weehawken, New Jersey, and I found myself thinking I'd like to see NASCAR try that because of the major elevation change due to the cliffs.
I would love to see NASCAR do the street course in Weehawken that F1 once planned to do. Would offer great views of NYC and be a great way to get NASCAR into America's largest media market and attempt to gain new fans.
NASCAR has talked about doing a street race in the NYC area for years. I bet that after the success of the Chicago race, this will happen sooner rather than later.
If NASCAR had this many road/street courses back when Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart were driving, they'd both have a lot more wins and probably more championships.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on July 03, 2023, 10:02:38 AM
I'm not really a NASCAR fan, but I also enjoyed the Chicago street race last evening. Kind of like the Field of Dreams game in MLB and the Winter Classic in hockey. NASCAR should continue this type of racing.
This has been NASCAR's goal all along with their experimentation with new race layouts and markets.
Even though I wish NASCAR were still racing at Chicagoland Speedway, I really enjoyed the street race in downtown Chicago.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 03, 2023, 02:20:59 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 03, 2023, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 03, 2023, 01:35:34 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 03, 2023, 12:30:42 AM
I will have to say the Chicago street race was a great race despite all the weather issues. I hope they come back again and hopefully will consider street races in other cities such as Philly and NYC.
I found myself thinking of F1's failed effort to run on a street circuit in Weehawken, New Jersey, and I found myself thinking I'd like to see NASCAR try that because of the major elevation change due to the cliffs.
I would love to see NASCAR do the street course in Weehawken that F1 once planned to do. Would offer great views of NYC and be a great way to get NASCAR into America's largest media market and attempt to gain new fans.
NASCAR has talked about doing a street race in the NYC area for years. I bet that after the success of the Chicago race, this will happen sooner rather than later.
I wouldn't be opposed to them racing in Washington, DC either (with Baltimore as a backup if that can't be done). And several other cities that don't have a dedicated speedway could use a street race too.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 03, 2023, 01:19:43 PM
On another note, did anyone else realize that the braking guide signs ("700", "600", "500", etc) were US route shields with orange tape around the edges? :D
I saw that too. Thought it was pretty dope!
And I just went digging in his Twitter timeline, and here's two shots of them (first is a 200, second is an 800, third is 400).
https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1675128710154838017
https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1675115506922143744
https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1674759872678699008
And here's a video of them, starting @ 700.
https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1674824718430486548
Quote from: Henry on July 03, 2023, 10:53:47 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to them racing in Washington, DC either (with Baltimore as a backup if that can't be done). And several other cities that don't have a dedicated speedway could use a street race too.
I've thought it would be neat to have a street race in DC that runs along Independence Avenue across the bridge over the Tidal Basin, turns right either via Maine Avenue or 14th Street to go over the 14th Street Bridge, exits right onto the GW Parkway, exits left to Memorial Circle, and crosses back into DC to Independence Avenue again. It'll never happen and I have no idea where they'd put the pit lane, but you talk about a great made-for-TV publicity stunt street circuit.
Edited to add: The ideal place for a temporary pit lane would be to modify the above course to exit the highway via Boundary Channel Drive and then use the Pentagon North Parking for the pits, but I cant imagine the Defense Department cooperating with that idea.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 03, 2023, 12:06:05 PM
The top 30 in points rule has been removed by NASCAR for this season. It has been called by some as the "Corey Lajoie" rule due to him almost winning at Atlanta Superspeedway despite not being Top 30 in points.
I thought it was the Chase Elliott rule, because of his injury and suspension.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 05, 2023, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 03, 2023, 12:06:05 PM
The top 30 in points rule has been removed by NASCAR for this season. It has been called by some as the "Corey Lajoie" rule due to him almost winning at Atlanta Superspeedway despite not being Top 30 in points.
I thought it was the Chase Elliott rule, because of his injury and suspension.
No, it was announced before the season began.
Even the ARCA races aren't spared from being rained out this year. The one at Pocono this weekend got washed out by a pop-up shower.
Quote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2023, 09:42:50 PM
Even the ARCA races aren't spared from being rained out this year. The one at Pocono this weekend got washed out by a pop-up shower.
Despite that the weather at Pocono is nice for the rest of the weekend. Went yesterday to the Truck and Xfinity races and the weather was perfect, bright skies, not too hot, and no rain.
Leave it to the Reddit fans (of which I am one) to have bold takes after each race.
So the weather in California this week led to the Clash at the Coliseum being moved to last night at the last minute.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on February 04, 2024, 11:14:33 AM
So the weather in California this week led to the Clash at the Coliseum being moved to last night at the last minute.
Yes, and it wiped out the last round at Pebble Beach, and the Grammy's may have some issues tonight.
We ended up getting a full refund on our tickets to the race (seven in total). I just wish that the call would have been made earlier because I would have still gone yesterday.
People already freaking out about rain at Daytona when the 500 is still more than a week out...
I'm already prepared for a Monday Daytona doubleheader.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 18, 2024, 08:39:30 AM
I'm already prepared for a Monday Daytona doubleheader.
The Monday doubleheader is now official.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 08, 2024, 04:45:14 PM
People already freaking out about rain at Daytona when the 500 is still more than a week out...
They were right.
I'm just wondering if the Daytona 500 is on TV in Mexico? I hadn't really considered it prior to the trip I'm on.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 18, 2024, 02:10:24 PM
I'm just wondering if the Daytona 500 is on TV in Mexico? I hadn't really considered it prior to the trip I'm on.
I wonder if this link may help (https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2022/02/18/nascar-finalizes-international-broadcast-rights-agreements-with-fox-sports-mexico-and-bandeirantes-to-bring-national-series-races-to-latin-america/).
Quote from: 74/171FAN on February 18, 2024, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 18, 2024, 02:10:24 PM
I'm just wondering if the Daytona 500 is on TV in Mexico? I hadn't really considered it prior to the trip I'm on.
I wonder if this link may help (https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2022/02/18/nascar-finalizes-international-broadcast-rights-agreements-with-fox-sports-mexico-and-bandeirantes-to-bring-national-series-races-to-latin-america/).
It does actually, appreciate it.
I'm mostly hoping for a Daytona 500 that ends at a checkered flag rather than a yellow one.
William Byron wins the 2024 Daytona 500...
William Byron wins the Daytona 500, except according to Reddit, who insist Alex Bowman was ahead of Byron at the moment of caution just after the white flag.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 19, 2024, 08:58:41 PM
William Byron wins the Daytona 500, except according to Reddit, who insist Alex Bowman was ahead of Byron at the moment of caution just after the white flag.
Given that Byron is more likely to win other races before the playoffs, it would have been better for HMS if Bowman had won.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 19, 2024, 08:58:41 PM
William Byron wins the Daytona 500, except according to Reddit, who insist Alex Bowman was ahead of Byron at the moment of caution just after the white flag.
Another function of the idiotic decision to not race back to the caution. Race back to the caution, no controversy.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 20, 2024, 08:53:50 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on February 19, 2024, 08:58:41 PM
William Byron wins the Daytona 500, except according to Reddit, who insist Alex Bowman was ahead of Byron at the moment of caution just after the white flag.
Another function of the idiotic decision to not race back to the caution. Race back to the caution, no controversy.
Maybe they were worried he'd also take out two tire changers and the race queen.
Yes, don't throw the caution when cars are coming back up the track into traffic...
Quote from: SP Cook on February 20, 2024, 08:53:50 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on February 19, 2024, 08:58:41 PM
William Byron wins the Daytona 500, except according to Reddit, who insist Alex Bowman was ahead of Byron at the moment of caution just after the white flag.
Another function of the idiotic decision to not race back to the caution. Race back to the caution, no controversy.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 20, 2024, 09:40:52 AM
Yes, don't throw the caution when cars are coming back up the track into traffic...
Maybe if the caution happened farther into the last lap, but there were wrecked cars right near the finish line. No way to race back.
The drivers know the rules, and there's clear incentive to be in the lead when you take the white flag.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 20, 2024, 09:43:30 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 20, 2024, 08:53:50 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on February 19, 2024, 08:58:41 PM
William Byron wins the Daytona 500, except according to Reddit, who insist Alex Bowman was ahead of Byron at the moment of caution just after the white flag.
Another function of the idiotic decision to not race back to the caution. Race back to the caution, no controversy.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 20, 2024, 09:40:52 AM
Yes, don't throw the caution when cars are coming back up the track into traffic...
Maybe if the caution happened farther into the last lap, but there were wrecked cars right near the finish line. No way to race back.
The drivers know the rules, and there's clear incentive to be in the lead when you take the white flag.
Basically, the difference between XFinity and Cup. In XFinity, the race stayed green after the last lap wreck on the backstretch.
Closest three-way finish in NASCAR history at Atlanta tonight.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 25, 2024, 07:31:16 PM
Closest three-way finish in NASCAR history at Atlanta tonight.
It may have been the greatest finish of all time. The margin from first to third place was 0.007 seconds.
If only Joey had finished where he started the past two weeks...
Sam Mayer beat Ryan Sieg by 0.002 seconds in the XFinity Race at Texas Motor Speedway earlier this afternoon.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on April 13, 2024, 05:55:58 PMSam Mayer beat Ryan Sieg by 0.002 seconds in the XFinity Race at Texas Motor Speedway earlier this afternoon.
Has to be absolutely gut-wrenching for a guy who's been in the series over a decade missing his first win by that much.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 14, 2024, 07:30:35 AMQuote from: 74/171FAN on April 13, 2024, 05:55:58 PMSam Mayer beat Ryan Sieg by 0.002 seconds in the XFinity Race at Texas Motor Speedway earlier this afternoon.
Has to be absolutely gut-wrenching for a guy who's been in the series over a decade missing his first win by that much.
Surely he'll see his luck turn one of these days.
LOL Steve O'Donnell is a complete clown. Says a new charter deal is close, then multiple insiders dispute his claim.
In spite of the horsepower issue, NASCAR has been pretty fun to watch this year at times. Photo finishes, tempers, and now Brad and Ford have broken through today.
Pretty boring All-Star race until Ricky Stenhouse tried to punch Kyle Busch.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 19, 2024, 10:18:54 PMPretty boring All-Star race until Ricky Stenhouse tried to punch Kyle Busch.
Agree with the boring part, even though my guy won.
I wonder if NASCAR will start giving the teams the option to use the softer/faster "red" tire at more tracks in the future?
Quote from: hbelkins on May 20, 2024, 12:38:18 PMI wonder if NASCAR will start giving the teams the option to use the softer/faster "red" tire at more tracks in the future?
I hope so. The planned stage break cautions have taken a lot of the strategy out of races. Having multiple tire options puts some back in. Both IndyCar and F1 have multiple tire options.
All-around disappointment yesterday with the rain, especially for Kyle Larson.
The Indy 500 turned out be a pretty good watch when it got started.
Quote from: epzik8 on May 27, 2024, 07:39:28 AMAll-around disappointment yesterday with the rain, especially for Kyle Larson.
Especially disappointed that one of the cheaters won.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 27, 2024, 09:35:02 AMEspecially disappointed that one of the cheaters won.
This is what you should expect in Indy Car until Penske leaves the scene. It is a total contradiction for a car own the sanctioning body, the tracks, and compete as an owner. This is why CART was so unwatchable, and why it eventually went bankrupt. It really wasn't a competition, it was a hybrid; a handful of owners who competed between themselves but kept everyone else out and who set the rules to suit themselves. A controlled competition/exhibition.
I wish Mr. Penske a long life, a long retired life. It is time to sell IMS and Indy Car to neutral ventures who do not enter cars.
Ironic you guys are on about an Indy Car team cheating when it was just an expected thing in NASCAR until recent times.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 27, 2024, 09:35:02 AMQuote from: epzik8 on May 27, 2024, 07:39:28 AMAll-around disappointment yesterday with the rain, especially for Kyle Larson.
Especially disappointed that one of the cheaters won.
Newgarden?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 27, 2024, 10:24:50 AMIronic you guys are up about an Indy Car cheating when it was just an expected thing in NASCAR until recent times.
Don't worry. I am sure plenty of people that hate Toyota are out saying that NASCAR rigged the calling of the race for Bell.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 27, 2024, 11:31:01 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 27, 2024, 10:24:50 AMIronic you guys are up about an Indy Car cheating when it was just an expected thing in NASCAR until recent times.
Don't worry. I am sure plenty of people that hate Toyota are out saying that NASCAR rigged the calling of the race for Bell.
I've seen that along with NASCAR was supposedly not wanting Kyle Larson in the race on social media already.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 27, 2024, 10:24:50 AMIronic you guys are up about an Indy Car cheating when it was just an expected thing in NASCAR until recent times.
Of course, the saying in NASCAR, back before the idiot grandson ran it into the ground (first generation starts a business, second generation grows a business, third generation destroys a business) was if you are not cheating, you are not trying.
Different sport. In NASCAR, even today with idiots in charge, there is actual competition. Car owners own cars. Track owners own tracks. Sanctioning bodies sanction.
CART, which existed from 1979 - 1996 as the (de facto) sanctioning body for the Indy 500, when it was kicked out and limped along, unwatchable and unwatched, until finally going bankrupt in 2007, was repugnant. It was a handful of owners who were at the same time the track owners (excepting Indy, which their power play to control IMS led to their needed downfall), sanctioning body, and team owners.
They made up the rules to exclude everyone else, and they spent so much money they could only fund their unloved series by selling rides to rich foreigners who lacked the talent to make it in the Formula One series they aped. It almost destroyed the Indy 500, until leadership was shown and they were kicked out.
Sadly, the IMS family fell on, by rich people standards, hard times after defeating CART. Rumor is they invested with Madoff. They sold off the family foods business to a big company and sold IMS to Penske, and now live the life of the idle rich somewhere. Fine.
But Penske must be watched. He was the ringleader of CART, and is trying to put this circus back on the road. Controlled competition/exhibition with him winning 80 to 90% of the time. Has beens, never weres, and wanna be drivers with no talent.
Fortunately Penske is getting up there, as are his fellow CARTers. The next era at Indy will, hopefully, see a return to what Indy was before and after CART. Merit based driver selection, equal access to technology, and fair racing.
Perhaps Stewart-Haas Racing should have left their logo alone.
Quote from: epzik8 on May 28, 2024, 08:49:24 PMPerhaps Stewart-Haas Racing should have left their logo alone.
Tony's interest in the sport clearly deteriorated once he retired as a driver.
Ford is building an F1 program, so it's unlikely that there is a new Ford team, or any of the existing Ford teams buying any of those charters.
The environment is ripe for a new manufacturer. McLaren has been building up their racing program all over the globe recently, but their brand really isn't a fit for NASCAR.
With the increase in road courses, now might be the time to court a European manufacturer in an attempt to build a market there.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 02, 2024, 12:03:16 PMTony's interest in the sport clearly deteriorated once he retired as a driver.
I agree that TS is less interested, and he is now involved with a female and is into drag racing, but there is a lot more to this than that.
The sport is just far less popular than it once was. Really, a NASCAR "charter" is nothing more than a free pass from qualifying. Charter teams are going to be in the show, every week.
But its just impossible to make money as a team owner in NASCAR. You have to have a sponsor. Sponsorship is just advertising. And Madison Ave. is walking away from NASCAR. Its just business. Smart business. You can buy ads on this or that other form of media, and get a better return, as NASCAR is losing viewers by the day.
Just search YouTube for an old race, and count the mass market consumer products and contrast to today.
The owners want more %age of the last revenue source left. The TV money. The Frances want to keep it all for themselves.
What S-H is doing, IMHO, is getting out while the getting is good. You either have to be a rich guy on an ego trip who doesn't care about losing money; or be really dumb to own a NASCAR team today, let alone in 3 or 5 years.
QuoteFord is building an F1 program, so it's unlikely that there is a new Ford team, or any of the existing Ford teams buying any of those charters.
While there is a market for general family CAR, neither Ford nor GM can compete with their better made competitions, and they have left the market. At the standard end, Toyota, VW, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, etc. still make CARS, as, at the higher end, so do the luxury marks of those brands plus M-B and BMW. Ford and GM have given up, Ford's only CAR will be the Mustang, GM's the Corvette. No mass market standard CARS.
One has to question racing either a "Mustang" that is just some stickers stuck on a generic body, or a vestigial "Ford". Same, yet more so, for a Corvette.
QuoteThe environment is ripe for a new manufacturer. McLaren has been building up their racing program all over the globe recently, but their brand really isn't a fit for NASCAR.
The NASCAR car is a spec-mobile. Change the stickers and its whatever. No relationship to an actual product. Easy for someone to come in, but what is the return?
QuoteWith the increase in road courses, now might be the time to court a European manufacturer in an attempt to build a market there.
Road courses (parking lot and city street races) are mostly borne of the Frances' greed. A way to get city officials to subsidize the event. They don't work on TV or at the live gate.
As to "European" (worldwide makers of cars founded in Europe) the only really mass market one is VW, and they are not interested. BMW and M-B probably are not either.
Fox's broadcast today was downright horrible, but one bright spot was Rajah Caruth crashing the booth and showing how much technical knowledge of the sport he has.
Quote from: SP Cook on June 02, 2024, 02:12:23 PMYou either have to be a rich guy on an ego trip who doesn't care about losing money; or be really dumb to own a NASCAR team today, let alone in 3 or 5 years.
What's the best way to make a small fortune in racing? Start out with a large fortune.
Also, it sucks to be Christopher Bell and Ryan Blaney after yesterday's race results.
Fox's portion of the season is over. Good riddance.
NASCAR is doing a complete joke of a job handling this weather at New Hampshire. Why bring rain tires when you're not going to touch them?
Afraid of a wet weather wreck fest. All the same, that is about the only way Loudon would be interesting.
The racing line is all over the place. I'm surprised NASCAR restarted this and used the rain tires after all.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 23, 2024, 07:01:09 PMThe racing line is all over the place. I'm surprised NASCAR restarted this and used the rain tires after all.
Made for a pleasantly wild ending, though.
Quote from: epzik8 on June 24, 2024, 05:36:09 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 23, 2024, 07:01:09 PMThe racing line is all over the place. I'm surprised NASCAR restarted this and used the rain tires after all.
Made for a pleasantly wild ending, though.
Yes, maybe NASCAR should just wet down the asphalt at the start of each Loudon race form now on.
Rain on race day? Say it isn't so!
Instant classic in Nashville...
I was bummed that Chastain didn't hold onto the lead and ended up getting wrecked, but at least Logano won -- and Hamlin didn't.
Only three days to the street race in Chicago...what I wouldn't give to be able to attend one, a perfect ending to a great weekend.
Quote from: Henry on July 04, 2024, 09:58:39 PMOnly three days to the street race in Chicago...what I wouldn't give to be able to attend one, a perfect ending to a great weekend.
I'd love to go, but not at the prices they're asking for seats.
Hopefully the pre-race concerts at Chicago will be able to go off this time.
Not another rain race???
Nothing says 4th of July weekend like a contrived "street" race in Illinois.
The Frances' absolute tone deafness to their core customer base is truly amazing.
Yesterday did nothing to improve my roommate's friend's view of road and street racing in NASCAR.
Sounds like Kyle Busch called out Corey LaJoie on Pat McAfee yesterday?
Stupid ending to today's race. I knew it wouldn't top yesterday's finish, but today was downright disgusting.
Quote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 06:43:13 PMStupid ending to today's race. I knew it wouldn't top yesterday's finish, but today was downright disgusting.
Anytime Penske doesn't win at Indy is a good ending.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 21, 2024, 07:30:19 PMQuote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 06:43:13 PMStupid ending to today's race. I knew it wouldn't top yesterday's finish, but today was downright disgusting.
Anytime Penske doesn't win at Indy is a good ending.
Bold of you to quote a Penske fan to say that...
Quote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 07:38:07 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 21, 2024, 07:30:19 PMQuote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 06:43:13 PMStupid ending to today's race. I knew it wouldn't top yesterday's finish, but today was downright disgusting.
Anytime Penske doesn't win at Indy is a good ending.
Bold of you to quote a Penske fan to say that...
I'm personally not a fan of cheaters.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 21, 2024, 07:46:01 PMQuote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 07:38:07 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 21, 2024, 07:30:19 PMQuote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 06:43:13 PMStupid ending to today's race. I knew it wouldn't top yesterday's finish, but today was downright disgusting.
Anytime Penske doesn't win at Indy is a good ending.
Bold of you to quote a Penske fan to say that...
I'm personally not a fan of cheaters.
Picked the way wrong sport to engage in fandom then.
I should just be happy my driver did not DNF this week.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2024, 07:52:36 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 21, 2024, 07:46:01 PMQuote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 07:38:07 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 21, 2024, 07:30:19 PMQuote from: epzik8 on July 21, 2024, 06:43:13 PMStupid ending to today's race. I knew it wouldn't top yesterday's finish, but today was downright disgusting.
Anytime Penske doesn't win at Indy is a good ending.
Bold of you to quote a Penske fan to say that...
I'm personally not a fan of cheaters.
Picked the way wrong sport to engage in fandom then.
Couldn't have said it better myself
As of today the Cup cars are back in business.
Why did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
Basically because of NBC
Quote from: 74/171FAN on August 11, 2024, 05:19:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
Basically because of NBC
Was NBC featuring Olympic events on USA?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 05:22:10 PMQuote from: 74/171FAN on August 11, 2024, 05:19:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
Basically because of NBC
Was NBC featuring Olympic events on USA?
I presume they were. I believe their entire family of networks ends up airing events if I remember correctly. I have not watched the Olympics in a long while.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on August 11, 2024, 05:43:20 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 05:22:10 PMQuote from: 74/171FAN on August 11, 2024, 05:19:11 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
Basically because of NBC
Was NBC featuring Olympic events on USA?
I presume they were. I believe their entire family of networks ends up airing events if I remember correctly. I have not watched the Olympics in a long while.
Nor have I. Nationalism in sports has never been my bag or something I found much rooting interest in.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
I'm not so sure about that.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 11, 2024, 08:14:28 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
I'm not so sure about that.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 11, 2024, 08:14:28 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
I'm not so sure about that.
Do expound.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 11, 2024, 08:14:28 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
I'm not so sure about that.
Do expound.
[/quote]
It just seems like a lot of people who are into NASCAR in my life are also into the Olympics.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 04:44:39 PMWhy did they take an Olympic break in the first place? There isn't exactly a huge overlap of NASCAR fans who would be into watching an overseas Olympics.
It was because of the NASCAR sharing channel space with the Olympics (NBC).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 05:22:10 PMWas NBC featuring Olympic events on USA?
Yes. Olympic events were on NBC, Peacock, the NBC Sports app, USA, CNBC, the Golf Channel, E!, and Telemundo. A number of production staff who typically work on NASCAR and IndyCar races for NBC were in Paris for the Olympics, including commentator Leigh Diffey (who will be replacing Rick Allen in NASCAR for the rest of the season). Part of NBC's TV deal with NASCAR requires a break in the season so NBC can cover the Olympics.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 11, 2024, 08:20:38 PMDo expound.
NASCAR now has fans all over the world and I guarantee you they are very, very into the Olympics. This NASCAR fan certainly was.
Are the NBC announcers so illiterate of their sport's history that they could watch the ending of the Richmond race and NOT mention Dale Earnhardt?
I think they were caught completely off guard by how far Austin Dillon was willing to go far to get a win. Controversy (and clear dumping) aside it certainly got people talking about NASCAR. Stuff like this is probably one of the few things I like about the playoff format.
Are the penalties from Sunday fair?
There was no way that NASCAR was going to take that win away. I'm surprised that they went as far to revoke Dillon's playoff eligibility. Logano deserved a fine for acting like an ass on pit road.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 15, 2024, 06:16:22 PMThere was no way that NASCAR was going to take that win away. I'm surprised that they went as far to revoke Dillon's playoff eligibility. Logano deserved a fine for acting like an ass on pit road.
I think at this point that Dillon's win should have been given to Hamlin with the playoff eligibility being taken away.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on August 15, 2024, 07:05:01 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 15, 2024, 06:16:22 PMThere was no way that NASCAR was going to take that win away. I'm surprised that they went as far to revoke Dillon's playoff eligibility. Logano deserved a fine for acting like an ass on pit road.
I think at this point that Dillon's win should have been given to Hamlin with the playoff eligibility being taken away.
Probably a slippery slope outright taking wins away. The pre-playoff stance was to always have the fans leaving the track knowing who the winner was. There was a year Mark Martin's Roush team won a race but failed post race inspection. NASCAR docked points and fined the team, but didn't vacate the win. If I recall it actually cost him the championship that year (I want to say 1990?).
Even when bad calls (or something of the like) are made in other professional sports the event winner is never changed.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 15, 2024, 06:16:22 PMThere was no way that NASCAR was going to take that win away. I'm surprised that they went as far to revoke Dillon's playoff eligibility. Logano deserved a fine for acting like an ass on pit road.
He was fined. $50,000.
I think we're going to have a Monday matinee in Michigan
Denny just lost 75 points in a P2 penalty after an engine teardown at NASCAR R&D.
Quote from: epzik8 on August 22, 2024, 04:09:01 PMDenny just lost 75 points in a P2 penalty after an engine teardown at NASCAR R&D.
He lost the points because TRD tore down the engine when they weren't supposed to, and the engine was supposed to be sealed after he won at Bristol. This happened in
March, and Denny's team didn't even commit the infraction, so it bugs me that he was penalized.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 23, 2024, 12:22:03 PMQuote from: epzik8 on August 22, 2024, 04:09:01 PMDenny just lost 75 points in a P2 penalty after an engine teardown at NASCAR R&D.
He lost the points because TRD tore down the engine when they weren't supposed to, and the engine was supposed to be sealed after he won at Bristol. This happened in March, and Denny's team didn't even commit the infraction, so it bugs me that he was penalized.
Dang, so is this like another Mark Martin 1990?
NASCAR's schedule release today includes Mexico and Rockingham confirmations.
The Frances, cluelessly, bounce from gimmick to gimmick, unwilling to simply accept that the idiot changes of the Brian France era did not work, and need to be reversed.
A road course in Mexico? Goodness.
And every immediate male relative on my wife's side of the family wants to go. They were hoping for Guadalajara so it would be closer to their home town. NASCAR Mexico has been a thing for two decades and there is fairly sizable fan base. To me this seems like an obvious new market to try the Cup Series in.
Much wilder race than I expected today at Watkins Glen.
I was rooting for Chastain, and then SVG after Chastain lost the lead. But it was definitely a wild one.
Probably the best Watkins Glen finished I recall seeing.
CW doesn't seem to be impressing so far with the Xfinity race.
Quote from: SP Cook on August 30, 2024, 08:54:20 AMThe Frances, cluelessly, bounce from gimmick to gimmick, unwilling to simply accept that the idiot changes of the Brian France era did not work, and need to be reversed.
A road course in Mexico? Goodness.
They've been to Suzuka and Australia in the past...
I sense a crazy fight in Cup today after seeing what unfolded in the trucks and Xfinity.
Another year, another needless playoff controversy. NASCAR needs to listen to the drivers and fans.
The entire playoff system just needs to go away. Its too confusing and not attracting any additional viewers anyway. Just go back to the straight season.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 04, 2024, 02:07:42 PMThe entire playoff system just needs to go away. Its too confusing and not attracting any additional viewers anyway. Just go back to the straight season.
They're never going to go back to that, but they could modify the playoffs to make it more favorable to the best drivers from the season.
1) The points never reset, you keep accumulating them throughout the season.
2) Playoffs are still final 10 races, and you still qualify automatically by winning (unless there are more than 16 winners).
3) First round is four races, winners of those four advance (if playoff drivers), plus the top drivers in points to get down to 12.
4) Second round is three races, winners of those three advance (if playoff drivers), plus the top drivers in points to get down to 8.
5) Third round is two races, winners of those two advance (if playoff drivers), plus the top drivers in points to get down to 4.
Gives much more weight to being consistently good all season. If you're in the top two in points, you're guaranteed to have a shot at the championship. Right now, it's all based on who's good at Vegas, Miami and Martinsville.
A bit off-topic, but NASCAR legend Bobby Allison passed away at the age of 86.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/bobby-allison-nascar-legend-and-hall-of-famer-dies-at-age-86/
QuoteBobby Allison, an 85-time NASCAR race winner, an undeniable fan favorite, and one of the most celebrated stock car drivers of all time, passed away at age 86 in his home in Mooresville, North Carolina.
Allison not only was the 1983 champion and winner of 85 NASCAR races; he still holds fourth place on NASCAR's all-time premier series win list. The legend's 336 top five finishes are second only to fellow Hall-of-Famer Richard Petty. He also made 718 career starts, 17th highest in NASCAR history. Allison's almost three-decade long career ended earlier than expected after a nearly fatal on-track accident in 1988.
Before he was forced to retire from racing, Allison won the prestigious Daytona 500 in 1978, '82, and '88; the Southern 500 at Darlington Raceway in '71, '72, '75, and '83; and the Coca-Cola 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway in '71, '81, and '84.
You know, I thought about doing a thread about Bobby Allison passing away. That guy survived some awfully horrific wrecks and made into his elder heads.
It'll be interesting to see tonight if Larson and Blaney can make the Clash from the LCQ.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 02, 2025, 09:22:41 AMIt'll be interesting to see tonight if Larson and Blaney can make the Clash from the LCQ.
If Blaney doesn't race his way in, he gets the provisional spot by virtue of being the top driver from last season not already qualified.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 02, 2025, 10:00:08 AMQuote from: epzik8 on February 02, 2025, 09:22:41 AMIt'll be interesting to see tonight if Larson and Blaney can make the Clash from the LCQ.
If Blaney doesn't race his way in, he gets the provisional spot by virtue of being the top driver from last season not already qualified.
Just saw that on socials. He had a hole in his water cooler.
Interesting scheduling, going right up against the Grammys.
NASCAR and Grammy followers probably don't have a lot of crossover.
This last chance race has been entertaining.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 02, 2025, 07:33:23 PMThis last chance race has been entertaining.
There's the right amount of "can barely pass" combined with "chrome horn" going on in this little bullring!
The 23XI race shop is about the most bland thing I've ever seen operated by a NASCAR team.
Enough pomp and circumstance. Get to the race.
The main event was kind of a dud. Ryan Blaney fell off in the closing laps when it was just getting interesting. I do like that the cars can actually pass at Bowman unlike the Coliseum.
Just another gimmick, apparently next year to be run on a road course in South America.
Next gimmick up is, apparently, an NBA like "in season tournament" to thus produce another meaningless and illegitimate champion to go along with the one from the meaningless and random playoffs in the fall.
Who else is tired of supposed NASCAR fans complaining about any and all new ideas?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 03, 2025, 10:14:04 AMWho else is tired of supposed NASCAR fans complaining about any and all new ideas?
Whenever I read the NASCAR subreddit, I am reminded why I do not have a Reddit account (and that I enjoy the races more when I don't read said forum).
I prefer to determine which drivers shouldn't receive any points due to failing to get more than 90% of the scheduled distance (that's it, without those extra laps just to finish without any cautions BS) like it happens in F1 :bigass:.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 03, 2025, 03:12:05 PMI prefer to determine which drivers shouldn't receive any points due to failing to get more than 90% of the scheduled distance (that's it, without those extra laps just to finish without any cautions BS) like it happens in F1 :bigass:.
Suddenly reminded of when Richard Childress Racing had Neil Bonnett start-and-park the #31 Lumina at Atlanta in 1993 to ensure Dale Earnhardt at least one more placing up in the standings...
I hope for a daytime Daytona 500 finish on Sunday now that the green flag has been moved up an hour.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 14, 2025, 03:31:32 PMI hope for a daytime Daytona 500 finish on Sunday now that the green flag has been moved up an hour.
Hadn't heard that. Trying to beat the weather?
Quote from: hbelkins on February 14, 2025, 03:43:22 PMQuote from: epzik8 on February 14, 2025, 03:31:32 PMI hope for a daytime Daytona 500 finish on Sunday now that the green flag has been moved up an hour.
Hadn't heard that. Trying to beat the weather?
Yes, it is Florida after all.
With the Camaro now out of production (at least temporarily, anyway), what GM plans to replace it with for next season is anyone's guess. The only Chevy passenger car remaining (Corvette) is not exactly NASCAR material, so my guess is, they're going to give Cadillac (with a CT-something) a shot, which would be amazing, considering that it's been their only division that has never competed at all. However, we'll still have Silverados in the Truck Series.
Next year's GM car will be a Chevrolet Chevy. The NASCAR cars have been specmobiles for over a decade, so the car next year will just have "Chevy" stickers on it, and the "grill and headlights" (stickers) will superficially have undertones of Chevies past.
The "American" automakers have been totally beaten out of the general sedan market by their better made competitors. It is easy to blame SUVs, but the fact is the Camry, Altma, Optima, etc. remain good sellers, while GM, Ford, and whatever they call Chrysler now have been run out of the segment.
Folks on the YouTube are pretty familiar with Cleetus McFarland and his "Freedom Factory" short-track oval and dragstrip complex outside of Bradenton, FL.
Well, Mr. Garrett Mitchell has gone and livestreamed his 1st ARCA race on the YouTube, which sadly ended when someone else lost it and collected Cleetus' race car in its trip to the SAFER barrier. Check in at the 44 minute mark for the carnage.
For a consolation prize, he gives a pretty epic post-crash interview to Fox.
Wonder what stupidity we'll have with the 500 finish today with everything that's gone on this weekend.
For whatever reason we can't get the streaming services showing the Daytona 500 to work my wife's aunt's house in Jalisco. The only thing that does work is the MRN broadcast on their web site. I probably haven't listened to a full race broadcast on the race since the early 2000s.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2025, 01:52:16 PMFor whatever reason we can't get the streaming services showing the Daytona 500 to work my wife's aunt's house in Jalisco.
The reason is, umm, Mexico is a different country. NASCAR (in Spanish) is on the ESPN channels in Latin America. The ESPN channels there are totally different from the ones here, but are in the basic Claro TV packages (sat, cable, or internet based delivery).
Unlike some other streamers, Netflix for example, Disney doesn't allow you to log on to anything outside the USA. Netflix lets you access whatever Netflix has rights to wherever you are (which is often more than they have here), but Disney requires a totally different account, with a local credit card, to get anything. Typical Disney.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 16, 2025, 02:47:58 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2025, 01:52:16 PMFor whatever reason we can't get the streaming services showing the Daytona 500 to work my wife's aunt's house in Jalisco.
The reason is, umm, Mexico is a different country. NASCAR (in Spanish) is on the ESPN channels in Latin America. The ESPN channels there are totally different from the ones here, but are in the basic Claro TV packages (sat, cable, or internet based delivery).
Unlike some other streamers, Netflix for example, Disney doesn't allow you to log on to anything outside the USA. Netflix lets you access whatever Netflix has rights to wherever you are (which is often more than they have here), but Disney requires a totally different account, with a local credit card, to get anything. Typical Disney.
Yes and the family dropped cable after we got them a smart TV in 2023. I'm content listening to the race on MRN, too bad there is a rain delay.
Now everyone wants to drive them over the local Walmart equivalent (Bodega Aurrera) to grocery shop. I probably have the time to go knock that out and put the end of race broadcast back on.
Just more impatience leading up to that cluster-foxtrot at the end. Blocking rarely works out well.
I'm fine with a result that takes Denny Hamlin out of contention.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 17, 2025, 03:03:41 PMI'm fine with a result that takes Denny Hamlin out of contention.
Ditto.
Really sorry about Kligerman's DQ being upheld.
Have a strange feeling this Sunday will be the end of NASCAR at COTA.
Quote from: epzik8 on February 28, 2025, 06:48:25 PMHave a strange feeling this Sunday will be the end of NASCAR at COTA.
They do not currently have a deal for 2026. I am unsure how that is strange considering I have heard that on YouTube all week from Eric Estepp and others.
I'm actually starting to feel bad for Kyle Busch. What's wrong with me?
Quote from: hbelkins on March 03, 2025, 04:32:33 PMI'm actually starting to feel bad for Kyle Busch. What's wrong with me?
I don't know if he had an option to take less money to stay with JGR, because today's reality is that if you aren't on each manufacturers best team (Chevy - HMS, Toyota - JGR, Ford - Penske), wins are going to be hard to come by. Teams like RCR and 23XI will get a win here or there, but it's never going to be consistent.
I was hoping the two Gibbs cars would just take each other out coming out of the last turn today.
Suddenly, Christopher Bell is one to be reckoned with.
Dude has been a Top 5 driver since 2022. His performance has only been getting progressively better over the last handful of years. It would amuse me if he gets a Cup Championship and Denny Hamlin doesn't.
Michael McDowell is suddenly this decade's Ryan Newman, becoming really good at winning poles.
There is always a couple drivers who are for whatever reason rockstars in qualifying. Joe Nemecheck got a nickname out of it (front row Joe) and you even had perennial back of field drivers like Loy Allen Jr. who could turn super fast single laps.
The one that always amused me was Dale Earnhardt. He only had 22 poles in the Cup Series and never really had all that great of a record in qualifying.
Pretty inexcusable how Alex Bowman basically gave today's race away.
Quote from: epzik8 on March 23, 2025, 08:31:31 PMPretty inexcusable how Alex Bowman basically gave today's race away.
Larson is just that good once he gets going along that wall at Homestead. It is not about Bowman. This was one of his best races since his 2020 Fontana win.
Hendrick, 23XI and Gibbs occupy all of the top 8 spots in the points right now, with Hendrick occupying the top 3 spots.
Gotta say the Xfinity Series is killing it with the Darlington throwbacks this year.
Why did I know Larson would be the winner of the Xfinity race at Bristol before I even clicked NASCAR.com for the results?
Quote from: epzik8 on April 12, 2025, 08:26:07 PMWhy did I know Larson would be the winner of the Xfinity race at Bristol before I even clicked NASCAR.com for the results?
Why am I not surprised he was the very dominant winner of the Cup race?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2025, 05:55:53 PMQuote from: epzik8 on April 12, 2025, 08:26:07 PMWhy did I know Larson would be the winner of the Xfinity race at Bristol before I even clicked NASCAR.com for the results?
Why am I not surprised he was the very dominant winner of the Cup race?
Because it's tradition that whenever Hendrick Motorsports suffers some sort of tragedy, their most dominant driver ends up winning the very next week.
This week's race at Bristol was hot garbage, and not due to Kyle Larson's dominance in all three races. Changing the tires has not helped at all (there was supposed to be quite a bit of tire falloff - there was barely two tenths of a second of falloff after over 100 laps), and the racing product is terrible. The stands looked half empty. The Cup car's short track package does suck, but all three races were not good. Bristol may need to lose one of its dates if it continues putting out such a terrible product - people are whining about the car, but I think the issue is the track. Get rid of the progressive banking.
I don't see NASCAR dumping a Bristol date. The daytime Spring race always has less of a crowd than the night race. That crowd was thin enough that it made me think that maybe I ought to go attend next year and take advantage of the lack of people.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2025, 03:58:42 PMI don't see NASCAR dumping a Bristol date. The daytime Spring race always has less of a crowd than the night race. That crowd was thin enough that it made me think that maybe I ought to go attend next year and take advantage of the lack of people.
I have heard rumors that if the Cup Series ever goes back to the Nashville Fairgrounds that it will get one of Bristol's dates.
All things considered, I've enjoyed Rockingham's return.
Thank god they didn't wreck on the final lap at Talladega today. That possibility had me stressed for most of the day.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on April 14, 2025, 03:55:12 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2025, 05:55:53 PMQuote from: epzik8 on April 12, 2025, 08:26:07 PMWhy did I know Larson would be the winner of the Xfinity race at Bristol before I even clicked NASCAR.com for the results?
Why am I not surprised he was the very dominant winner of the Cup race?
Because it's tradition that whenever Hendrick Motorsports suffers some sort of tragedy, their most dominant driver ends up winning the very next week.
This week's race at Bristol was hot garbage, and not due to Kyle Larson's dominance in all three races. Changing the tires has not helped at all (there was supposed to be quite a bit of tire falloff - there was barely two tenths of a second of falloff after over 100 laps), and the racing product is terrible. The stands looked half empty. The Cup car's short track package does suck, but all three races were not good. Bristol may need to lose one of its dates if it continues putting out such a terrible product - people are whining about the car, but I think the issue is the track. Get rid of the progressive banking.
I was deathly ill that day and missed the race, or any preceding tragic news involving the Hendrick family or Hendrick Motorsports. What happened?
Quote from: hbelkins on April 28, 2025, 12:08:51 PMQuote from: WillWeaverRVA on April 14, 2025, 03:55:12 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2025, 05:55:53 PMQuote from: epzik8 on April 12, 2025, 08:26:07 PMWhy did I know Larson would be the winner of the Xfinity race at Bristol before I even clicked NASCAR.com for the results?
Why am I not surprised he was the very dominant winner of the Cup race?
Because it's tradition that whenever Hendrick Motorsports suffers some sort of tragedy, their most dominant driver ends up winning the very next week.
This week's race at Bristol was hot garbage, and not due to Kyle Larson's dominance in all three races. Changing the tires has not helped at all (there was supposed to be quite a bit of tire falloff - there was barely two tenths of a second of falloff after over 100 laps), and the racing product is terrible. The stands looked half empty. The Cup car's short track package does suck, but all three races were not good. Bristol may need to lose one of its dates if it continues putting out such a terrible product - people are whining about the car, but I think the issue is the track. Get rid of the progressive banking.
I was deathly ill that day and missed the race, or any preceding tragic news involving the Hendrick family or Hendrick Motorsports. What happened?
Jon Edwards, Hendrick's director of racing communications, passed away suddenly the Thursday before the race at Bristol.
Penske got caught cheating.
In other breaking news, the sky is blue.
That was a far more entertaining All Star race this year. Having multiple lanes usable in race traffic was interesting to see at North Wilkesboro. I'm not sure what Logano had to complain about, he wasn't holding off the pack forever on two new tires.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 28, 2025, 06:04:01 PMPenske got caught cheating.
In other breaking news, the sky is blue.
Penske got caught cheating, in IndyCar this time.
In other breaking news, the sky is blue.
Somebody let me know when NBC takes over the broadcasts. I don't have Prime (sometimes I think I'm the only person who doesn't have prime) and I don't have a good device capable of streaming to my television even if I did have Prime, so I'd be SOL for the next several weeks.
Honestly, I don't see the point of paying extra for the privilege of buying something. Same with Walmart+, Kroger Boost, or any other similar services.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 20, 2025, 08:55:01 PMSomebody let me know when NBC takes over the broadcasts.
TNT takes over at Atlanta on June 28th so you should be good then.
I love me a classic fuel race at Michigan like we had yesterday.
Quote from: epzik8 on June 09, 2025, 08:11:01 AMI love me a classic fuel race at Michigan like we had yesterday.
That race was all kinds of fun. First stage was so-so, but the racing in the second stage was pretty amazing, and the third stage was some good old fashioned fuel mileage drama.
I enjoyed watching Shane van Gisbergen running a master class of a race in Mexico City. That said, he was way the hell down in the point standings and now has a Chase spot. There probably should be a points position cutoff where drivers below the top 25 or 30 can't qualify with a win.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2025, 01:07:02 PMI enjoyed watching Shane van Gisbergen running a master class of a race in Mexico City. That said, he was way the hell down in the point standings and now has a Chase spot. There probably should be a points position cutoff where drivers below the top 25 or 30 can't qualify with a win.
He's going to take that spot from somebody who didn't win any race and isn't a threat to win the championship anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 16, 2025, 01:28:42 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 16, 2025, 01:07:02 PMI enjoyed watching Shane van Gisbergen running a master class of a race in Mexico City. That said, he was way the hell down in the point standings and now has a Chase spot. There probably should be a points position cutoff where drivers below the top 25 or 30 can't qualify with a win.
He's going to take that spot from somebody who didn't win any race and isn't a threat to win the championship anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Harrison Burton did the same thing last year.
Street closures/construction for the Chicago street race have begun again
Quote from: ET21 on June 18, 2025, 10:02:50 AMStreet closures/construction for the Chicago street race have begun again
I was interested in going until I saw ticket prices. Over $250 for the cheapest seats?!
I get a pair of premium seats at the biggest race in the world for that.
Just had a chance to watch the Atlanta Race. It was about as good as any Cup race has been in about a decade.
Fight coming between Bubba Wallace and Alex Bowman? I'm surprised it took that long for the 23 to wreck with all that blocking.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 05:04:36 PMFight coming between Bubba Wallace and Alex Bowman? I'm surprised it took that long for the 23 to wreck with all that blocking.
I'm a fan of Bubba's but he pushed his luck too far with that one.
How about Katherine Legge with a top 20 finish?
Hopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year). The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 05:26:22 PMHopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year). The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty.
That is very unlikely as long as she is in the 78 unless it is a huge attrition race (probably even moreso than Atlanta last week). Having stated that, I am glad that she ran well at a road course.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 06, 2025, 06:40:00 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 05:26:22 PMHopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year). The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty.
That is very unlikely as long as she is in the 78 unless it is a huge attrition race (probably even moreso than Atlanta last week). Having stated that, I am glad that she ran well at a road course.
I've always wondered how Live Fast stays in operation. They kind of strike me as having much in common with the field-filler teams of the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 06:46:19 PMI've always wondered how Live Fast stays in operation. They kind of strike me as having much in common with the field-filler teams of the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Well they did sell that 78 charter for $40 million a couple years ago so that has to be part of it.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 06, 2025, 06:40:00 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 05:26:22 PMHopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year). The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty.
That is very unlikely as long as she is in the 78 unless it is a huge attrition race (probably even moreso than Atlanta last week). Having stated that, I am glad that she ran well at a road course.
She could be a top 10 driver on road courses in good equipment, but she's way too weak on ovals to get a full time ride.
Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
Quote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2025, 03:09:13 PMWonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks. Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:18:11 PMQuote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2025, 03:09:13 PMWonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks. Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.
If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 07, 2025, 03:33:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:18:11 PMQuote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2025, 03:09:13 PMWonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks. Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.
If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.
Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:44:25 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 07, 2025, 03:33:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:18:11 PMQuote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2025, 03:09:13 PMWonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks. Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.
If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.
Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.
My problem with the current format is that in a series with several kinds of tracks, the championship is decided on a single track. If you really want the most deserving champion, have the championship decided by a 3-race total points affair, with a road course, short track, and 1.5 mile oval.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:44:25 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 07, 2025, 03:33:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:18:11 PMQuote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2025, 03:09:13 PMWonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks. Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.
If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.
Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.
Assuming he doesn't have his accident at Michigan, Ernie Irvan probably wins in 1994 in that instance as well.
I wonder, other than rovals (Phoenix, Charlotte, Texas World, Homestead when it was built in '95) how many road courses aside from Sonoma and Watkins Glen had enough garage and pit road space for a full Cup (and possibly Busch/trucks) field at the time. Maybe just Laguna Seca and Road America.
Quote from: Takumi on July 07, 2025, 04:18:48 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:44:25 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 07, 2025, 03:33:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:18:11 PMQuote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2025, 03:09:13 PMWonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks. Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.
If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.
Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.
Assuming he doesn't have his accident at Michigan, Ernie Irvan probably wins in 1994 in that instance as well.
I wonder, other than rovals (Phoenix, Charlotte, Texas World, Homestead when it was built in '95) how many road courses aside from Sonoma and Watkins Glen had enough garage and pit road space for a full Cup (and possibly Busch/trucks) field at the time. Maybe just Laguna Seca and Road America.
Never been to any of them so I have no idea if they have what's required, but just off the top of my head:
Mid-Ohio
Montreal
Portland
Sebring
Daytona has a road course
SVG owns Grant Park
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 07, 2025, 04:29:31 PMQuote from: Takumi on July 07, 2025, 04:18:48 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:44:25 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 07, 2025, 03:33:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2025, 03:18:11 PMQuote from: hbelkins on July 07, 2025, 03:09:13 PMWonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?
(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)
My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks. Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.
If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.
Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.
Assuming he doesn't have his accident at Michigan, Ernie Irvan probably wins in 1994 in that instance as well.
I wonder, other than rovals (Phoenix, Charlotte, Texas World, Homestead when it was built in '95) how many road courses aside from Sonoma and Watkins Glen had enough garage and pit road space for a full Cup (and possibly Busch/trucks) field at the time. Maybe just Laguna Seca and Road America.
Never been to any of them so I have no idea if they have what's required, but just off the top of my head:
Mid-Ohio
Montreal
Portland
Sebring
Daytona has a road course
Yeah, those all would fit. Probably Road Atlanta too.
The NASCAR championship is totally illegitimate. It is a random result. It is a gimmick. Comparisons to it and the real champions from before the "chase" are meaningless.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 08, 2025, 10:36:56 AMThe NASCAR NFL championship is totally illegitimate. It is a random result. It is a gimmick. Comparisons to it and the real champions from before the "chase" playoffs are meaningless.
The chase has been around for 20 years now. It's the way they determine a championship. It's as legitimate as anything else.
No, no it is not. If you play football the regular way and then decide the championship with rock-paper-scisors, and do that for 20 years, the results in year 21 are still 100% random and illegitimate.
Therefore all of the "Martin would have..." "Irvan would have..." Based on different mixes of race types is foolish. It is impossible to know, because the result of the chase is totally a random event, in no way reflective of who had a good year, let alone the best year. Just a random result, and totally illegitimate.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 09, 2025, 10:46:56 AMNo, no it is not. If you play football the regular way and then decide the championship with rock-paper-scisors, and do that for 20 years, the results in year 21 are still 100% random and illegitimate.
Therefore all of the "Martin would have..." "Irvan would have..." Based on different mixes of race types is foolish. It is impossible to know, because the result of the chase is totally a random event, in no way reflective of who had a good year, let alone the best year. Just a random result, and totally illegitimate.
Hell, I'd argue Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship because of a points penalty.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2025, 10:52:02 AMHell, I'd argue Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship because of a points penalty.
That proves the point. When NASCAR was properly run, every race mattered, and every point, and thus every position, mattered. 100% mattered.
Today? Who wins a race matters very little. All that matters is making the idiotic chase, which is fairly easy to do, and then just sandbag along until it starts and then take your chance. Who finishes best among 4 randomly determined drivers in a single race among all the other drivers, is just random. In no way the same as winning a real championship based on a season of accomplishment.
And, BTW, the idiotic chase this year is sponsored by Power Ball. Which is marketing genius. A random drawing for a random "champion".
Quote from: SP Cook on July 09, 2025, 11:31:32 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on July 09, 2025, 10:52:02 AMHell, I'd argue Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship because of a points penalty.
That proves the point. When NASCAR was properly run, every race mattered, and every point, and thus every position, mattered. 100% mattered.
Today? Who wins a race matters very little. All that matters is making the idiotic chase, which is fairly easy to do, and then just sandbag along until it starts and then take your chance. Who finishes best among 4 randomly determined drivers in a single race among all the other drivers, is just random. In no way the same as winning a real championship based on a season of accomplishment.
And, BTW, the idiotic chase this year is sponsored by Power Ball. Which is marketing genius. A random drawing for a random "champion".
The old way of deciding the championship based on total points over the season was the most accurate way of determining the best driver. However, the explosion in TV money that came in the 90s-00s made it mandatory that a system be devised that prevents a champion from being crowned before the final weekend.
I wouldn't call the current format illegitimate, but it's definitely tilted too far in the other direction.
The playoffs are never going away, but there is a better way to run it. Find some other way than having it all boil down to which of four drivers finishes highest in the last race.
Also, please ditch the scheduled yellow flags at the end of stages. It punishes the dominant cars and rewards the mediocre ones. I don't mind the stage points gimmick, but do it without the scheduled yellows.
The biggest issue I had with the old points system was twofold:
- There should have been a wider gap in points awarded from 1st to 2nd. Maybe award 1st with a base 195 or 200 points?
- Positions below 30th should have just been awarded 0 points. It was always pretty dumb to have wrecked cars running around much of the race to pick off anyone who got a DNF.
That said, I don't begrudge some champions like Terry Labonte (in 1996) or Matt Kenseth for how they got Winston Cup championships. They truly were the best drivers those years and were unbelievably consistent compared to modern Cup seasons.