NASCAR

[Max Rockatansky]

Hopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year).  The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty. 

[74/171FAN]

Hopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year).  The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty. 

That is very unlikely as long as she is in the 78 unless it is a huge attrition race (probably even moreso than Atlanta last week).  Having stated that, I am glad that she ran well at a road course.

[Max Rockatansky]

Hopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year).  The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty. 

That is very unlikely as long as she is in the 78 unless it is a huge attrition race (probably even moreso than Atlanta last week).  Having stated that, I am glad that she ran well at a road course.

I've always wondered how Live Fast stays in operation.  They kind of strike me as having much in common with the field-filler teams of the late 1990s and early 2000s. 

[74/171FAN]

I've always wondered how Live Fast stays in operation.  They kind of strike me as having much in common with the field-filler teams of the late 1990s and early 2000s. 

Well they did sell that 78 charter for $40 million a couple years ago so that has to be part of it.

[NWI_Irish96]

Hopefully she can get a top twenty on an oval (assuming she runs another this year).  The social media talk about a rookie driver in her 40s has been really shitty. 

That is very unlikely as long as she is in the 78 unless it is a huge attrition race (probably even moreso than Atlanta last week).  Having stated that, I am glad that she ran well at a road course.

She could be a top 10 driver on road courses in good equipment, but she's way too weak on ovals to get a full time ride.

[hbelkins]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

[Max Rockatansky]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks.  Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.

[NWI_Irish96]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks.  Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.

If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.

[Max Rockatansky]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks.  Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.

If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.

Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.

[NWI_Irish96]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks.  Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.

If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.

Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.

My problem with the current format is that in a series with several kinds of tracks, the championship is decided on a single track. If you really want the most deserving champion, have the championship decided by a 3-race total points affair, with a road course, short track, and 1.5 mile oval.

[Takumi]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks.  Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.

If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.

Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.

Assuming he doesn't have his accident at Michigan, Ernie Irvan probably wins in 1994 in that instance as well.

I wonder, other than rovals (Phoenix, Charlotte, Texas World, Homestead when it was built in '95) how many road courses aside from Sonoma and Watkins Glen had enough garage and pit road space for a full Cup (and possibly Busch/trucks) field at the time. Maybe just Laguna Seca and Road America.

[NWI_Irish96]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks.  Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.

If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.

Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.

Assuming he doesn't have his accident at Michigan, Ernie Irvan probably wins in 1994 in that instance as well.

I wonder, other than rovals (Phoenix, Charlotte, Texas World, Homestead when it was built in '95) how many road courses aside from Sonoma and Watkins Glen had enough garage and pit road space for a full Cup (and possibly Busch/trucks) field at the time. Maybe just Laguna Seca and Road America.

Never been to any of them so I have no idea if they have what's required, but just off the top of my head:

Mid-Ohio
Montreal
Portland
Sebring
Daytona has a road course

[ET21]

SVG owns Grant Park

[Takumi]

Wonder what King Richard thinks about SVG and his playoff qualification now?

(I missed the race, but sounds like I missed a good one.)

My take on road course wins is that they just as legitimate (if not more) than restrictor plate tracks.  Road courses at least require skill, plate track winners often just lucky.

If NASCAR ran as many road courses back in the 1990s-2000s as they do now, Jeff Gordon would have retired with about a dozen championships.

Mark Martin would have certainly had at least one.

Assuming he doesn't have his accident at Michigan, Ernie Irvan probably wins in 1994 in that instance as well.

I wonder, other than rovals (Phoenix, Charlotte, Texas World, Homestead when it was built in '95) how many road courses aside from Sonoma and Watkins Glen had enough garage and pit road space for a full Cup (and possibly Busch/trucks) field at the time. Maybe just Laguna Seca and Road America.

Never been to any of them so I have no idea if they have what's required, but just off the top of my head:

Mid-Ohio
Montreal
Portland
Sebring
Daytona has a road course

Yeah, those all would fit. Probably Road Atlanta too.

[SP Cook]

The NASCAR championship is totally illegitimate.  It is a random result.   It is a gimmick.  Comparisons to it and the real champions from before the "chase" are meaningless. 

[SEWIGuy]

The NASCAR NFL championship is totally illegitimate.  It is a random result.   It is a gimmick.  Comparisons to it and the real champions from before the "chase" playoffs are meaningless. 

The chase has been around for 20 years now. It's the way they determine a championship. It's as legitimate as anything else.

[SP Cook]

No, no it is not.  If you play football the regular way and then decide the championship with rock-paper-scisors, and do that for 20 years, the results in year 21 are still 100% random and illegitimate. 

Therefore all of the "Martin would have..." "Irvan would have..." Based on different mixes of race types is foolish.  It is impossible to know, because the result of the chase is totally a random event, in no way reflective of who had a good year, let alone the best year.  Just a random result, and totally illegitimate.

[Max Rockatansky]

No, no it is not.  If you play football the regular way and then decide the championship with rock-paper-scisors, and do that for 20 years, the results in year 21 are still 100% random and illegitimate. 

Therefore all of the "Martin would have..." "Irvan would have..." Based on different mixes of race types is foolish.  It is impossible to know, because the result of the chase is totally a random event, in no way reflective of who had a good year, let alone the best year.  Just a random result, and totally illegitimate.

Hell, I'd argue Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship because of a points penalty. 

[SP Cook]

Hell, I'd argue Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship because of a points penalty. 

That proves the point.  When NASCAR was properly run, every race mattered, and every point, and thus every position, mattered.  100% mattered. 

Today?  Who wins a race matters very little.  All that matters is making the idiotic chase, which is fairly easy to do, and then just sandbag along until it starts and then take your chance.  Who finishes best among 4 randomly determined drivers in a single race among all the other drivers, is just random.  In no way the same as winning a real championship based on a season of accomplishment.

And, BTW, the idiotic chase this year is sponsored by Power Ball.   Which is marketing genius.  A random drawing for a random "champion".

[NWI_Irish96]

Hell, I'd argue Mark Martin was screwed out of a championship because of a points penalty. 

That proves the point.  When NASCAR was properly run, every race mattered, and every point, and thus every position, mattered.  100% mattered. 

Today?  Who wins a race matters very little.  All that matters is making the idiotic chase, which is fairly easy to do, and then just sandbag along until it starts and then take your chance.  Who finishes best among 4 randomly determined drivers in a single race among all the other drivers, is just random.  In no way the same as winning a real championship based on a season of accomplishment.

And, BTW, the idiotic chase this year is sponsored by Power Ball.   Which is marketing genius.  A random drawing for a random "champion".

The old way of deciding the championship based on total points over the season was the most accurate way of determining the best driver. However, the explosion in TV money that came in the 90s-00s made it mandatory that a system be devised that prevents a champion from being crowned before the final weekend.

I wouldn't call the current format illegitimate, but it's definitely tilted too far in the other direction.

The playoffs are never going away, but there is a better way to run it. Find some other way than having it all boil down to which of four drivers finishes highest in the last race.

Also, please ditch the scheduled yellow flags at the end of stages. It punishes the dominant cars and rewards the mediocre ones. I don't mind the stage points gimmick, but do it without the scheduled yellows.

[Max Rockatansky]

The biggest issue I had with the old points system was twofold:

-  There should have been a wider gap in points awarded from 1st to 2nd.  Maybe award 1st with a base 195 or 200 points?
-  Positions below 30th should have just been awarded 0 points.  It was always pretty dumb to have wrecked cars running around much of the race to pick off anyone who got a DNF.

That said, I don't begrudge some champions like Terry Labonte (in 1996) or Matt Kenseth for how they got Winston Cup championships.  They truly were the best drivers those years and were unbelievably consistent compared to modern Cup seasons.