Considering how dominate Walmart is, and how it is ever bigger than Sears was at its peak, will Walmart ever completely go out of business, or will it continue to exist in some form for decades to come?
While no doubt Walmart continues to dominate, Amazon has overtaken it as the largest retailer in the United States and this article seems to think the retailer is facing headwinds by losing share in some of its key businesses to competitors such as Amazon, Target, Instacart, etc.
https://www.vox.com/recode/22423706/walmart-memo-retail-amazon-target-instacart (https://www.vox.com/recode/22423706/walmart-memo-retail-amazon-target-instacart)
It won't be an overnight process, but will Walmart slowly fade into irrelevance over time?
If you believe Alien Resurrection they'll be outlawed in 2349.
I doubt they'll outlive the heat death of the universe, so I'm sure they'll be gone eventually.
My first response was "one can only hope," but then I remembered that they could be replaced by something worse.
All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a Meijer outside Lexington, KY - I had a number of items I needed to buy on the way to Asheville and I thought it would be Walmart or nothing.
Quote from: vdeane on April 17, 2022, 08:30:39 PM
I doubt they'll outlive the heat death of the universe, so I'm sure they'll be gone eventually.
Earth is going to be uninhabitable long before that, but of course the buildings themselves could last beyond that point.
It probably depends on how well (or if) Amazon challenges Walmart in rural areas where the latter is the only retail option.
As others have said, it depends on how Amazon does. Walmart could potentially go to online only just like Amazon did with the recent closure of their retail stores.
I think it depends a bit more on how well Walmart is managed. Wasn't Sears looking very stable for many years?
The real question is will Pfangle ever pfail and succeed?
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that Amazon will fail before Walmart.
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 17, 2022, 10:08:09 PM
I think it depends a bit more on how well Walmart is managed. Wasn't Sears looking very stable for many years?
Sears was stable before super hedge fund douche Eddie Lampert and Kmart got their hooks into it.
Quote from: Brandon on April 17, 2022, 10:14:12 PM
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that Amazon will fail before Walmart.
That is a limb. I think both are sustainable in the short- and medium-term, although in very different ways.
But to answer the question of if Walmart will EVER fail... I think yes is the safe answer.
Rome Fell. So sooner or later a small department store will have to.
Forever is a long time. That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first. In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible.
As long as they remember that, they will be fine. Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago.
First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 18, 2022, 09:14:48 AM
Forever is a long time. That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first. In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible.
As long as they remember that, they will be fine. Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago.
First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.
Heh. Keeping prices low is being done to attract customers, destroy their competition and maximize profits.
The real sign of concern for customers is customer service, which Walmart falters in.
Don't tell me someone cares for me when they are acting totally in their own mercurial self-interest.
No, not exactly.
But the first time that a Starbucks opens up inside of a Starbucks inside of a Wal-Mart, then Judgment Day will immediately follow, and the heavens and the earth will be no more.
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 09:46:03 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 18, 2022, 09:14:48 AM
Forever is a long time. That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first. In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible.
As long as they remember that, they will be fine. Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago.
First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.
Heh. Keeping prices low is being done to attract customers, destroy their competition and maximize profits.
The real sign of concern for customers is customer service, which Walmart falters in.
Don't tell me someone cares for me when they are acting totally in their own mercurial self-interest.
The thing is when does bad customer service begin to drive people away when lower prices are available? Right now there seemingly is a near bottomless well of people who are willing to put up with Wal-Mart's poor service standards to save a buck.
The Market, in its perfection, says differently.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 09:46:03 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 18, 2022, 09:14:48 AM
Forever is a long time. That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first. In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible.
As long as they remember that, they will be fine. Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago.
First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.
Heh. Keeping prices low is being done to attract customers, destroy their competition and maximize profits.
The real sign of concern for customers is customer service, which Walmart falters in.
Don't tell me someone cares for me when they are acting totally in their own mercurial self-interest.
The thing is when does bad customer service begin to drive people away when lower prices are available? Right now there seemingly is a near bottomless well of people who are willing to put up with Wal-Mart's poor service standards to save a buck.
Yep. Which is why I think the only thing that would doom Walmart would be if one (or more) of the "dollar" chains went hypermarket.
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
You never know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
You never know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
Sure, but if you look at just U.S. stores, there are no retailers there.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
You never know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
Sure, but if you look at just U.S. stores, there are no retailers there.
Minor example, but there is this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardelli_Chocolate_Company
The ruins of the store in Hornitos are actually an attraction in the town.
More on point with retail via Macys:
https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/8122-oldest-companies-in-america.html
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
You never know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
Sure, but if you look at just U.S. stores, there are no retailers there.
Minor example, but there is this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardelli_Chocolate_Company
The ruins of the store in Hornitos are actually an attraction in the town.
More on point with retail via Macys:
https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/8122-oldest-companies-in-america.html
Heh. If there's ever a Walmart Square that becomes a tourist attraction for high-end desserts, I think I'll reach for my revolver.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
You never know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
Sure, but if you look at just U.S. stores, there are no retailers there.
Minor example, but there is this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardelli_Chocolate_Company
The ruins of the store in Hornitos are actually an attraction in the town.
More on point with retail via Macys:
https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/8122-oldest-companies-in-america.html
And they'd have to make it to 2043 to make it to 200 years. I'd bet the under.
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
You never know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
Sure, but if you look at just U.S. stores, there are no retailers there.
Minor example, but there is this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardelli_Chocolate_Company
The ruins of the store in Hornitos are actually an attraction in the town.
More on point with retail via Macys:
https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/8122-oldest-companies-in-america.html
Heh. If there's ever a Walmart Square that becomes a tourist attraction for high-end desserts, I think I'll reach for my revolver.
I considered reaching for mine when I learned Walmart now offers health care.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 18, 2022, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 11:37:22 AM
Heh. If there's ever a Walmart Square that becomes a tourist attraction for high-end desserts, I think I'll reach for my revolver.
I considered reaching for mine when I learned Walmart now offers health care.
If you do, then maybe you can go to Wal-Mart to get care for your injury.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 17, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
My first response was "one can only hope," but then I remembered that they could be replaced by something worse.
All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a Meijer outside Lexington, KY - I had a number of items I needed to buy on the way to Asheville and I thought it would be Walmart or nothing.
The southernmost Meijer on I-75 is at Richmond, which is 25 miles south of Lexington.
I think the overall southernmost one is in Bowling Green.
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 10:40:21 AM
No, not exactly.
But the first time that a Starbucks opens up inside of a Starbucks inside of a Wal-Mart, then Judgment Day will immediately follow, and the heavens and the earth will be no more.
That was a Simpsons' bit.
Walmart has a few departments where Amazon will struggle to compete. Whole Foods may be more profitable, but Amazon has nothing to compete with Walmart's grocery section. Walmart competes more with Lowe's and Home Depot for home repair needs, paint, and gardening needs (including plants). Amazon has yet to go into auto services though they could buy out a Meineke's or Jiffy Lube and expand from there. (Note that auto repair will rapidly change as electric vehicles become a majority which will force oil change businesses to diversify.) There are also people like me who just prefer to shop in stores for clothes and many other products; I don't know if Millennials and future generations will have enough store shoppers. But yeah, they'll eventually go under though they will probably outlast me. I think some other even worse retail establishment or combination of businesses will eventually drive them out of business.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 18, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
I mean, it's going to assuredly fail. It won't be around in 200 years because how many stores last that long?
Well the oldest corporation in the world is "The Governor and Company of Adventurers of England, trading into Hudson's Bay" . Founded on May 2, 1670.
While it has been in many businesses from fur trading, to oil and gas, to land sales, it has owned stores for most of that time, and pretty much has been only in that business since the mid-1950s.
Is it to a company's advantage or disadvantage, in terms of longevity, to operate a hundred zillion stores that are all basically the same?
Quote from: hbelkins on April 18, 2022, 01:10:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 17, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
My first response was "one can only hope," but then I remembered that they could be replaced by something worse.
All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a Meijer outside Lexington, KY - I had a number of items I needed to buy on the way to Asheville and I thought it would be Walmart or nothing.
The southernmost Meijer on I-75 is at Richmond, which is 25 miles south of Lexington.
I think the overall southernmost one is in Bowling Green.
It was the one located at 2155 Paul Jones Way, Lexington 40509.
My point was that I didn't really expect to find any hypermarkets in KY that weren't Walmarts.
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 02:46:54 PM
Is it to a company's advantage or disadvantage, in terms of longevity, to operate a hundred zillion stores that are all basically the same?
It's certainly been an advantage for McDonalds.
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 02:46:54 PM
Is it to a company's advantage or disadvantage, in terms of longevity, to operate a hundred zillion stores that are all basically the same?
I think it's an advantage overall. Businesses with one or just a handful of locations can have successful runs, but rarely have the right ownership structure and decision makers to successfully transition through one generation after another in the same way as a company like Walmart or McDonalds.
Quote from: skluth on April 18, 2022, 01:49:12 PM
Walmart has a few departments where Amazon will struggle to compete. Whole Foods may be more profitable, but Amazon has nothing to compete with Walmart's grocery section.
Amazon Fresh is becoming their main grocery brand and features more reasonable prices, more in line with the likes of Target from what I've seen in the Seattle area. They also have the cashierless systems from Amazon Go, plus some fresh food options.
Walmart would already be at death's door if it wasn't also a grocery store. You can talk about all the mismanagement and other business-speak when it comes to how KMart and Sears went down the tubes, but at the end of the day, it was because those stores were not also selling a full complement of groceries in additional to all the cheap-ass crap and slave-made clothes.
Walmart wasn't really a grocery store 30 years ago. But in the 90's they started rolling out the "Supercenter" which was the same department store consumers were used to, but also groceries. And it future-proofed their stores. Target followed suit. Today, Walmart's primary competition comes from regional department store/grocery store hybrids like Meijer or Fred Meyer (hey similar names!)
The fact is, most people would rather pick out their own food either on principle or because deep down, the want to be tempted by those impulse items. (Ooh, big bags of M&M's 2 for 5? I pretty much have to!) So online grocery delivery is never going to muscle out the majority of that business. Walmart also has its own supply chain for grocery items, so they can control costs up and down the line and always be in a position to compete on price, so they'll have a lock on budget-conscious consumers.
At this point, they'd really have to screw things up in order to fail. Or have some crazy external force disrupt things. Like it or not, Walmart is here to stay.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 18, 2022, 06:10:44 PM
The fact is, most people would rather pick out their own food either on principle or because deep down, the want to be tempted by those impulse items. (Ooh, big bags of M&M's 2 for 5? I pretty much have to!) So online grocery delivery is never going to muscle out the majority of that business.
The reason my wife and I only do in-person grocery shopping is that we don't trust someone else to make substitution decisions for us.
Especially when it comes to fresh produce, exactly what we buy depends on what it looks like that day compared to other similar things. If kale in a certain type of packaging looks like it might go bad in the next couple of days, we might try a different brand/packaging, or we might even choose a different type of greens altogether. Or our list will simply say "fresh fruit" and we'll buy whatever looks and smells the best while we're there.
But also when it comes to packaged items: if they're out a 16-ounce whatever, we might switch brands, or we might switch to buying 8- or 32-ounce versions instead, or we might buy a different flavor that we can make work in whatever we're cooking. It's also somewhat common for one of us to realize we forgot to add something to the list–but only because we see it while walking down the aisle.
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 18, 2022, 06:10:44 PM
Walmart wasn't really a grocery store 30 years ago. But in the 90's they started rolling out the "Supercenter" which was the same department store consumers were used to, but also groceries.
I haven't seen a "Supercenter"-branded WalMart in the U.S. for ages. Maybe because even the smaller WalMarts, including the "neighborhood stores" and other variants, usually have at least limited grocery offerings.
But WalMart "Supercentres" abound in Canada.
Quote from: oscar on April 18, 2022, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 18, 2022, 06:10:44 PM
Walmart wasn't really a grocery store 30 years ago. But in the 90's they started rolling out the "Supercenter" which was the same department store consumers were used to, but also groceries.
I haven't seen a "Supercenter"-branded WalMart in the U.S. for ages. Maybe because even the smaller WalMarts, including the "neighborhood stores" and other variants, usually have at least limited grocery offerings.
But WalMart "Supercentres" abound in Canada.
Usually Supercenter-branded Walmarts are in rural areas/exurbs and just outside of larger metropolitan areas. Although here in New England, Hartford, Springfield, and Worcester have them.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2022, 07:25:29 PM
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
With Instacart, if I'm not at the $35 minimum, I just add an expensive cut of meat and then remove it before the shopper starts shopping.
Quote from: Bruce on April 18, 2022, 05:10:08 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 18, 2022, 01:49:12 PM
Walmart has a few departments where Amazon will struggle to compete. Whole Foods may be more profitable, but Amazon has nothing to compete with Walmart's grocery section.
Amazon Fresh is becoming their main grocery brand and features more reasonable prices, more in line with the likes of Target from what I've seen in the Seattle area. They also have the cashierless systems from Amazon Go, plus some fresh food options.
Amazon Fresh has a lonnnng way to go before being a serious challenger to Walmart. Most of their stores are in niche urban/suburban areas.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 18, 2022, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2022, 07:25:29 PM
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
With Instacart, if I'm not at the $35 minimum, I just add an expensive cut of meat and then remove it before the shopper starts shopping.
Supercenter is Walmart (they don't call it that anymore).
To answer the question?
Yes.
Will the 'Amazon Plus' of a century+ ago (Sears, Roebuck and Company) ever fail?
Mike
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 18, 2022, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 18, 2022, 01:10:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 17, 2022, 08:37:33 PM
My first response was "one can only hope," but then I remembered that they could be replaced by something worse.
All I can say is that I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a Meijer outside Lexington, KY - I had a number of items I needed to buy on the way to Asheville and I thought it would be Walmart or nothing.
The southernmost Meijer on I-75 is at Richmond, which is 25 miles south of Lexington.
I think the overall southernmost one is in Bowling Green.
It was the one located at 2155 Paul Jones Way, Lexington 40509.
My point was that I didn't really expect to find any hypermarkets in KY that weren't Walmarts.
We have Targets as well, although they're certainly not as plentiful as Walmart. I haven't done a comparison, but I wouldn't be surprised to find nearly as many Meijer locations here as Targets.
Kroger is starting to branch out into other merchandise. Kroger Marketplace may even have patio furniture or other non-grocery items.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2022, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 09:46:03 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 18, 2022, 09:14:48 AM
Forever is a long time. That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first. In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible.
As long as they remember that, they will be fine. Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago.
First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.
Heh. Keeping prices low is being done to attract customers, destroy their competition and maximize profits.
The real sign of concern for customers is customer service, which Walmart falters in.
Don't tell me someone cares for me when they are acting totally in their own mercurial self-interest.
The thing is when does bad customer service begin to drive people away when lower prices are available? Right now there seemingly is a near bottomless well of people who are willing to put up with Wal-Mart's poor service standards to save a buck.
What exactly is bad customer service? In most cases, it is just a loss of all/part of goods value.
if you loose less from potential loss than from shoping at a more expensive place, then it is a reasonable bet.
I don't buy food at $1 stores, I would hesitate to save on medications. But a pair of socks, for example, is very unlikely to kill me; and risk of defective sock is pretty acceptable as long as it doesn't occur too often.
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Fully agreed. You get great customer service when buying really fancy shit you don't need. Certainly no value for a Lambo.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Ability to return is directly linked to the risk of goods not being a good fit for the purpose, and you writing them off. Depending on your shopping pattern, can be a big hit or not an issue
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 02:46:54 PM
Is it to a company's advantage or disadvantage, in terms of longevity, to operate a hundred zillion stores that are all basically the same?
Definitely an advantage. Compare it to the recent discussion of restaurants off highway exits: People look for something familiar. They are looking for the McDonalds and the Burger Kings. They're not looking for an unfamiliar burger place...and the unfamiliar burger places aren't really looking for travelers from the highway. Sure - both will gladly accept each other, but overall people want to use what they already know.
Quote from: Brandon on April 17, 2022, 10:14:12 PM
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that Amazon will fail before Walmart.
I'll hang on that limb with you. Amazon is around because of the internet. Find something to replace the internet, and that will cause the downfall of Amazon.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 19, 2022, 03:36:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Fully agreed. You get great customer service when buying really fancy shit you don't need. Certainly no value for a Lambo.
And even then, the salesperson may be the nicest person ever, but they'll lie to your face to get that sale.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 19, 2022, 03:36:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Fully agreed. You get great customer service when buying really fancy shit you don't need. Certainly no value for a Lambo.
For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there. I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers. The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away. But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value" than I.
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
Probably Walmart won't fail. But I am old enough to remember when both Sears and K-Mart had DOMINANT positions in the retail industry. We all know how they ended up.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
What makes you think I want to download apps for one time use over making a phone call? I don't see why an employee couldn't be bothered to check a computer based inventory on-hand. That's the same data your app is pulling information from.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:52:18 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
What makes you think I want to download apps for one time use over making a phone call?
Same here.
I also don't have a smartphone anyway, so no app for me.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:52:18 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
What makes you think I want to download apps for one time use over making a phone call?
Same here.
I also don't have a smartphone anyway, so no app for me.
I think that I have maybe two apps on my phone I downloaded? There are mainly for doing stuff like posting things on Gribblenation's Facebook page.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 19, 2022, 03:36:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Fully agreed. You get great customer service when buying really fancy shit you don't need. Certainly no value for a Lambo.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 19, 2022, 03:42:23 PM
And even then, the salesperson may be the nicest person ever, but they'll lie to your face to get that sale.
And lying to you would be bad customer service–but not because the Lambo isn't worth its price tag. It isn't, of course, but that's a separate issue.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
I'd add to/clarify that list:
- ability to find items easily (either through sensible store layout or through easy access to staff members that can show me where something is)
- employee knowledge (I should be able to ask an employee which of two items is better suited for my application and they should at least have some sort of recommendation)
- employee competence (quick and efficient scanning and bagging of goods at checkout)
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
The app might show availability, but it's usually hours or days out of date and won't reflect what's actually on the shelves.
That said, phone calls do take a lot longer but at least they can be done while driving towards the store.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
I've never called a Wal-Mart but they've never told me I couldn't return anything nor assume I'm a criminal (unexpected items in bagging area notwithstanding). The few times I've had to ask an employee for something, they've usually found it about half the time.
Everything gets surpassed one day. Foreign competition? A bigger and better mousetrap? Even lower prices? Drone delivery? Family winds up being related to the Duggars? Anything can happen...
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2022, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
The app might show availability, but it's usually hours or days out of date and won't reflect what's actually on the shelves.
That said, phone calls do take a lot longer but at least they can be done while driving towards the store.
Apps and web sites are using same database, and nobody will actually go and check things out in a bigger store. As for finding things, at least some stores show item location in the app and/or on the web. I don't know how well store folks know layout, those jobs are not a true career these days. There is certainly a chance they do, but not to fine details for uncommon items.
Certainly, small hardware store are more likely to have handyman skills compared to Walmart.. .But that is not going for granted as well.
All that is to say that Wal-Mart doesn't have the best customer service. But that's not directly related to the value of the product itself that they sell.
I'd say that a store the size of Wal-Mart can't reasonably have the level of customer service that would allow for an informed recommendation like what Scott described. But then I realized that I've actually had decent luck with such questions at Home Depot, which is also a humongous chain store.
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2022, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
The app might show availability, but it's usually hours or days out of date and won't reflect what's actually on the shelves.
That said, phone calls do take a lot longer but at least they can be done while driving towards the store.
From what limited experience I've seen with my wife using the Walmart pickup app it never seems to have on-hands up to date to current status. She seemingly always has cancelled items or substitutions.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 05:56:30 PM
All that is to say that Wal-Mart doesn't have the best customer service. But that's not directly related to the value of the product itself that they sell.
I'd say that a store the size of Wal-Mart can't reasonably have the level of customer service that would allow for an informed recommendation like what Scott described. But then I realized that I've actually had decent luck with such questions at Home Depot, which is also a humongous chain store.
HD seems to have many more people working in specific areas, and actually much smaller assortment. Store may be equally large, but Walmart has nothing like stacks of drywall.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 06:11:03 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2022, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
The app might show availability, but it's usually hours or days out of date and won't reflect what's actually on the shelves.
That said, phone calls do take a lot longer but at least they can be done while driving towards the store.
From what limited experience I've seen with my wife using the Walmart pickup app it never seems to have on-hands up to date to current status. She seemingly always has cancelled items or substitutions.
Question is if inventory can be well maintained in a large self service store. Stollen, misplaced, or broken items must be a pain to account for.
I certainly have seen how shoppers, both kids and adults, contribute to the mess.
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 06:50:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 06:11:03 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 19, 2022, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 19, 2022, 03:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Phone calls to walmart.. .Why?
I didn't mean Wal-Mart specifically. I just mean that that's part of what "customer service" means to me.
But as to why I might call Wal-Mart... to check their hours on a holiday, to ask the pharmacist a question about a prescription–I don't know, any number of reasons?
To see if something is in stock, for myself that has been the reason I've called a store about 80% of the time.
That's what the app is for. Guess what whatever schmo that answers the phone is going to do themselves? Hint, they aren't likely walking across the department to look at a shelf on your behalf.
The app might show availability, but it's usually hours or days out of date and won't reflect what's actually on the shelves.
That said, phone calls do take a lot longer but at least they can be done while driving towards the store.
From what limited experience I've seen with my wife using the Walmart pickup app it never seems to have on-hands up to date to current status. She seemingly always has cancelled items or substitutions.
Question is if inventory can be well maintained in a large self service store. Stollen, misplaced, or broken items must be a pain to account for.
I certainly have seen how shoppers, both kids and adults, contribute to the mess.
The only true through way to do that is to conduct a full physical inventory and reset the on-hands. Trouble is Big Box retailers only do that once annually. If the theft, disposal, mispicks and whatever isn't kept in check the on-hands can have some massive variances. The worst is most retailers running on assured receiving with their BOLs, that can cause massive issues on its own.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 05:56:30 PM
I'd say that a store the size of Wal-Mart can't reasonably have the level of customer service that would allow for an informed recommendation like what Scott described. But then I realized that I've actually had decent luck with such questions at Home Depot, which is also a humongous chain store.
The way to do that is through specialization. If you have two people per shift running the sporting goods section and
only the sporting goods section, then chances are pretty good those six people are going to get to know what they stock and what it can and can't be used for pretty damn well. And since it's a small team they're going to probably share what they learn with each other. True, they're going to be absolutely useless if you ask them questions about pet food, but they can find someone over in the pet department that can assuredly answer the question.
The problem is having 6 people per department ends up being way more expensive than modern retail wants to spend on it. So instead you end up with a team of 20-40 generalists. That way if the person assigned to sporting goods for the day calls in, they don't have to try to get a sporting goods staffer in, they can just move someone over from beauty supply or the men's underwear section. This results in employees who have a wide but shallow knowledge base.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2022, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 05:56:30 PM
I'd say that a store the size of Wal-Mart can't reasonably have the level of customer service that would allow for an informed recommendation like what Scott described. But then I realized that I've actually had decent luck with such questions at Home Depot, which is also a humongous chain store.
The way to do that is through specialization. If you have two people per shift running the sporting goods section and only the sporting goods section, then chances are pretty good those six people are going to get to know what they stock and what it can and can't be used for pretty damn well. And since it's a small team they're going to probably share what they learn with each other. True, they're going to be absolutely useless if you ask them questions about pet food, but they can find someone over in the pet department that can assuredly answer the question.
The problem is having 6 people per department ends up being way more expensive than modern retail wants to spend on it. So instead you end up with a team of 20-40 generalists. That way if the person assigned to sporting goods for the day calls in, they don't have to try to get a sporting goods staffer in, they can just move someone over from beauty supply or the men's underwear section. This results in employees who have a wide but shallow knowledge base.
But specialization requires hiring someone for that department who's already familiar with the sort of stuff to be found there. When I got my first job at Target, I hired on with a retired gentleman who was getting a part-time job there to keep him occupied during retirement. I don't know how much he knew about electronics, but I suspect it wasn't much more than any old Joe Schmoe off the street–yet that's the department he was assigned to. How else would you do things at a large store like Target or Wal-Mart? New hires are new hires, and you plug them in where you can.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 08:58:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2022, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 05:56:30 PM
I'd say that a store the size of Wal-Mart can't reasonably have the level of customer service that would allow for an informed recommendation like what Scott described. But then I realized that I've actually had decent luck with such questions at Home Depot, which is also a humongous chain store.
The way to do that is through specialization. If you have two people per shift running the sporting goods section and only the sporting goods section, then chances are pretty good those six people are going to get to know what they stock and what it can and can't be used for pretty damn well. And since it's a small team they're going to probably share what they learn with each other. True, they're going to be absolutely useless if you ask them questions about pet food, but they can find someone over in the pet department that can assuredly answer the question.
The problem is having 6 people per department ends up being way more expensive than modern retail wants to spend on it. So instead you end up with a team of 20-40 generalists. That way if the person assigned to sporting goods for the day calls in, they don't have to try to get a sporting goods staffer in, they can just move someone over from beauty supply or the men's underwear section. This results in employees who have a wide but shallow knowledge base.
But specialization requires hiring someone for that department who's already familiar with the sort of stuff to be found there. When I got my first job at Target, I hired on with a retired gentleman who was getting a part-time job there to keep him occupied during retirement. I don't know how much he knew about electronics, but I suspect it wasn't much more than any old Joe Schmoe off the street–yet that's the department he was assigned to. How else would you do things at a large store like Target or Wal-Mart? New hires are new hires, and you plug them in where you can.
And for Kalvado the customer this is more about being able to read and understand what I actually need vs paying extra for consulting by someone who may or may not understand my circumstances and may want to make a sale rather than actually help me. And whatever is said, mere interaction with the store guy creates some pressure to buy even if I am not getting the best match to my needs.
Actually that often makes Walmart preferred to, say, Best buy for me, and Amazon is even better if I can wait for delivery.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 08:58:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2022, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 05:56:30 PM
I'd say that a store the size of Wal-Mart can't reasonably have the level of customer service that would allow for an informed recommendation like what Scott described. But then I realized that I've actually had decent luck with such questions at Home Depot, which is also a humongous chain store.
The way to do that is through specialization. If you have two people per shift running the sporting goods section and only the sporting goods section, then chances are pretty good those six people are going to get to know what they stock and what it can and can't be used for pretty damn well. And since it's a small team they're going to probably share what they learn with each other. True, they're going to be absolutely useless if you ask them questions about pet food, but they can find someone over in the pet department that can assuredly answer the question.
The problem is having 6 people per department ends up being way more expensive than modern retail wants to spend on it. So instead you end up with a team of 20-40 generalists. That way if the person assigned to sporting goods for the day calls in, they don't have to try to get a sporting goods staffer in, they can just move someone over from beauty supply or the men's underwear section. This results in employees who have a wide but shallow knowledge base.
But specialization requires hiring someone for that department who's already familiar with the sort of stuff to be found there. When I got my first job at Target, I hired on with a retired gentleman who was getting a part-time job there to keep him occupied during retirement. I don't know how much he knew about electronics, but I suspect it wasn't much more than any old Joe Schmoe off the street–yet that's the department he was assigned to. How else would you do things at a large store like Target or Wal-Mart? New hires are new hires, and you plug them in where you can.
Nobody comes into the world knowing anything about anything. If you are going to assign someone to a department, it is your responsibility as a business to make up the difference between "employee's current knowledge of that department" and "employee's ideal knowledge of that department". For whatever value of "ideal" your target customer base decides is necessary.
Investing in on-the-job training can make a real difference. Walmart knows exactly which products they sell, so they could put together a program teaching knowledge about these products to their employees. These days, videos could even be recorded in Bentonville and distributed to every store, and periodically shown to existing employees as a refresher course.
No, this isn't cheap, but, hell, the casino I worked at could manage it for the really important stuff like anti-money-laundering training. I'm sure Walmart could probably do it more efficiently and cheaper, especially amortized over how many employees they have. (And to my understanding, they already make them watch anti-union videos with some regularity anyway, so it'd be nice if they used the infrastructure in place for that to actually benefit the customers...)
In the 2008 recession, companies (not just Walmart) got really bad about demanding applicants already be the perfect manifestation of the position they were hired for with no training at all. They had that luxury back then, because there were enough applicants for each job position that they could afford to pick and choose. They got used to that way of operating, because it's cheaper for
someone else to train them. But now the situation is coming back around where you are getting enough raw, untrained applicants that on-the-job training is going to make or break a candidate's success in the position.
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2022, 09:25:50 PM
And for Kalvado the customer this is more about being able to read and understand what I actually need vs paying extra for consulting by someone who may or may not understand my circumstances and may want to make a sale rather than actually help me.
I don't think you have to worry about anyone at Walmart ever giving a damn about whether they make a sale or not. Enough people come through spending $200 on groceries every week that their jobs will never be in jeopardy if they fail to sell someone a vacuum. They don't work on commission and they can't accept tips, so nothing about that interaction affects them financially.
The retail clerk's incentive is to escape the interaction as quickly as possible, so that they can return to their non-customer-service duties (which, if they don't complete, they will get in trouble for and/or be unable to go home on time ), and to minimize the amount of time they're exposed to the customer, who is an unknown quantity that may turn volatile at any moment and find some reason to cause trouble with management. If "Nope, we don't have anything like that" is the answer that gets them out of that interaction the fastest, that's the one they'll give, even if it costs the company a sale.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2022, 11:44:02 PM
Nobody comes into the world knowing anything about anything. If you are going to assign someone to a department, it is your responsibility as a business to make up the difference between "employee's current knowledge of that department" and "employee's ideal knowledge of that department". For whatever value of "ideal" your target customer base decides is necessary.
Investing in on-the-job training can make a real difference. Walmart knows exactly which products they sell, so they could put together a program teaching knowledge about these products to their employees.
Walmart probably doesn't give much training about particular products...and most of the customers within the stores are conditioned not to expect much in the way of advice at a Walmart. After all, Walmart isn't usually advertising personalized customer service; they're advertising low prices. Walmart is probably more concerned in security procedures such as their locked cases and how to deal with a customer that wants something from that case.
Quote
No, this isn't cheap, but, hell, the casino I worked at could manage it for the really important stuff like anti-money-laundering training. I'm sure Walmart could probably do it more efficiently and cheaper, especially amortized over how many employees they have. (And to my understanding, they already make them watch anti-union videos with some regularity anyway, so it'd be nice if they used the infrastructure in place for that to actually benefit the customers...)
There's a bit of a difference between money laundrying, which could cost a casino hundreds of thousands of dollars if not detected quickly, and not knowing if a TV has a particular function, if a bat is the right size for a little leaguer, or which hammer would be the correct hammer for a homeowner, which would potentionally piss off a consumer, whom will probably return to Walmart anyway for their next purchase.
Quote from: Rothman on April 18, 2022, 09:46:03 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 18, 2022, 09:14:48 AM
Forever is a long time. That said, Walmart's secret is not really that secret. Put of the 100s if not 1000s of indistinguishable such stores in what was a regional business for the most part, Walmart put the customer first. In the marketplace, people gravitated to it, over more familiar such stores, because of the concern Walmart had for them, keeping prices as low as possible.
As long as they remember that, they will be fine. Of course, that was Sears' secret too, long ago.
First generation founds the business, second generation grows the business, third generation ruins the business.
Heh. Keeping prices low is being done to attract customers, destroy their competition and maximize profits.
The real sign of concern for customers is customer service, which Walmart falters in.
Don't tell me someone cares for me when they are acting totally in their own mercurial self-interest.
:thumbsup:
I'm surprised that consumers are expecting the Wal-Mart employees to be experts in the aisle that they stock.
They just need to know where it's located, and maybe knowing a scintilla more than the average consumer off the street; probably because they've had a few extra glances of the packaging over the course of their career. Worked for me when I worked in a grocery store...I'd never baked a cake.
Quote from: formulanone on April 20, 2022, 05:54:51 AM
I'm surprised that consumers are expecting the Wal-Mart employees to be experts in the aisle that they stock.
They just need to know where it's located, and maybe knowing a scintilla more than the average consumer off the street; probably because they've had a few extra glances of the packaging over the course of their career. Worked for me when I worked in a grocery store...I'd never baked a cake.
Oh, I don't expect anything of the sort from Walmart. But the problem for Walmart is that the "throw a bunch of products in a warehouse and sell them all for dirt cheap" model is really easy to ape. Amazon is arguably aping it right now, and it points to a future where all of those "buy cheap stuff" sales end up online. At that point there's really only three things brick-and-mortar can compete on: getting it there faster than online, allowing customers to see the product before they buy it, and customer service.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2022, 11:44:02 PM
Nobody comes into the world knowing anything about anything. If you are going to assign someone to a department, it is your responsibility as a business to make up the difference between "employee's current knowledge of that department" and "employee's ideal knowledge of that department".
If I'm asking someone for advice in a hardware store, then their answer needs to be informed by actual real-world experience with the hardware. That isn't really the sort of thing that can be taught through employee training.
But a hardware store can manage it, because they can hire only or mostly people with real-world hardware experience. In contrast Wal-Mart, or some similar store with 9600 departments ranging from automotive supply to girls' makeup, can't really do that.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 10:07:17 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2022, 11:44:02 PM
Nobody comes into the world knowing anything about anything. If you are going to assign someone to a department, it is your responsibility as a business to make up the difference between "employee's current knowledge of that department" and "employee's ideal knowledge of that department".
If I'm asking someone for advice in a hardware store, then their answer needs to be informed by actual real-world experience with the hardware. That isn't really the sort of thing that can be taught through employee training.
But a hardware store can manage it, because they can hire only or mostly people with real-world hardware experience. In contrast Wal-Mart, or some similar store with 9600 departments ranging from automotive supply to girls' makeup, can't really do that.
Hell, even Home Depot and Lowe's can't really do that.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2022, 11:44:02 PM
In the 2008 recession, companies (not just Walmart) got really bad about demanding applicants already be the perfect manifestation of the position they were hired for with no training at all. They had that luxury back then, because there were enough applicants for each job position that they could afford to pick and choose. They got used to that way of operating, because it's cheaper for someone else to train them. But now the situation is coming back around where you are getting enough raw, untrained applicants that on-the-job training is going to make or break a candidate's success in the position.
Especially since, at the time, a lot of laid off Boomers who were theoretically near retirement (but who lost a good chunk of their savings) were taking entry-level jobs, making it possible for companies to pay entry-level wages to highly experienced workers and forgo training. Now those Boomers are going ahead and retiring, leaving the jobs open for the Millennials who should have had them a decade ago.
Answering the phone is, to me, a basic tenet of good customer service.
I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat. Big O tire answered the phone, and they got a sale.
I've never had issues returning anything at Walmart, but I've always had the receipt and I've been able to return items that weren't purchased at that specific store (indeed, sometimes I've returned things that the store didn't even carry in stock).
Quote from: hbelkins on April 20, 2022, 01:43:48 PM
I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat.
To be fair, though, Walmart does 1.6 billion dollars worth of sales a day. In that context, selling or not selling a single tire like that isn't going to matter to them.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 20, 2022, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 20, 2022, 01:43:48 PM
I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat.
To be fair, though, Walmart does 1.6 billion dollars worth of sales a day. In that context, selling or not selling a single tire like that isn't going to matter to them.
In other words:
In that context, customer service doesn't matter to them.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:43:20 PM
For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there. I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers. The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away. But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value" than I.
My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping. I'm like you, in that I'd rather go somewhere pleasant, even if it means spending a few more dollars, but maybe we're a dying breed?
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:00:56 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 20, 2022, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 20, 2022, 01:43:48 PM
I've told the story about how Walmart in Frankfort blew a potential sale by not picking up the phone in the auto center to answer a question about whether or not they had a tire in stock when I had a nonrepairable flat.
To be fair, though, Walmart does 1.6 billion dollars worth of sales a day. In that context, selling or not selling a single tire like that isn't going to matter to them.
In other words: In that context, customer service doesn't matter to them.
Precisely. But the way the comment I was responding to was phrased suggested to me that it came from a mindset that believes that the lost sale did matter.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:43:20 PM
For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there. I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers. The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away. But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value" than I.
My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping. I'm like you, in that I'd rather go somewhere pleasant, even if it means spending a few more dollars, but maybe we're a dying breed?
I don't use a cashier or talk to the staff or visit at peak hours, which might explain, at least in part, why I find shopping at Walmart to be more or less just as pleasant as anywhere else.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:43:20 PM
For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there. I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers. The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away. But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value" than I.
My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping. I'm like you, in that I'd rather go somewhere pleasant, even if it means spending a few more dollars, but maybe we're a dying breed?
Perhaps, I still recall when there was things like specialized employees commonly working in commission sales positions in retail. A lot of my misgivings with Walmart's business model stem from the fact that I've been a retail security manager for sixteen years or my adult life. The security theater and sacrificing customer service (good service standards is a far better deterrent than security theater IMO) in favor of pushing the low price/no frills model just doesn't jive with current/past strategies I've been involved with.
Basically Walmart operates solely on the theory that they can sell through their inventory shrink and always count on high sales. In their defense they aren't exactly wrong in their conclusion at present moment.
I know customer service is dead especially on the phone. I'm probably the only person who would really wants a human being to transfer my call than wait for all the forthcoming menu options. Plus now with the operator function being depressed and then the voice activation system wants you to give a brief description of what you want to have done for you so the right person can be transferred to, is another bad customer service move.
We all know that they only have one set of operators that can handle all concerns. It's a gatekeeper to keep operator interaction to a minimum and make you think that you can handle your problem without human interaction to keep labor costs way down so the CEO can make 20 more grand per month in his bonuses.
Of course the most common excuse is " It's the way of the world" and people feel that we are to evolve which is why no one will stand up for what they believe in anymore. Beliefs are discarded now and life is disposable.
However I feel that if enough people believed like I do about automated menu options on the phone, it would have been gone years ago. I know if I was not on the Spectrum, I would be more vocal , which makes me think that if a non Spectrum individual is not standing up against jobs being eliminated promoting customer services and ridding us of automated phone systems, it shows me people are quite comfortable living without customer service.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:03:12 PMMy general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping.
No, but they care very much about how corporations use the money they're spending.
All this talk about Spectrum and phones is making think of this (https://official.spectrum.com/lfo-voice?ca.mp=Google&ca.cr=484304236305&ca.kw=spectrum%20home%20phone&ca.mt=e&cb.device=c&ca.target=aud-361196748143:kwd-257863558210&lfokp=spectrum%20home%20phone&fp=ch1&o=go&sitelink=false&v=SEMBR&cmp=SEMR_BR_G_43700058891816965&tfn=R0117&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjOXs7KOj9wIVcRXUAR1A5Qp5EAAYASAAEgKKEfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds).
If I don't have to deal with anyone in a Wal-Mart at all, I consider it a win. I have a Wal-Mart+ subscription, so I have the app, which tells me where in the store to find anything I need, and even if it's in stock, so I can even determine which store I want to shop at ahead of time if looking for something specific. I use Scan and Go as I'm loading the basket, so that by the time I make it to the self-checkout and press CheckOut on the app, I just scan the QR code, visually confirm that I've got the right credit card account selected, and then bag and leave. It's a faster and better experience from my perspective, because I don't need anyone's help to find anything in the store anyway, and I'm not there to chat up a cashier. It's better as far as I'm concerned to focus associates on keeping the shelves stocked, the carts collected, help those who are technologically phobic or inexperienced, or for the one-off cases where you might need cash back or to use cash.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:34:48 PM
All this talk about Spectrum and phones is making think of this (https://official.spectrum.com/lfo-voice?ca.mp=Google&ca.cr=484304236305&ca.kw=spectrum%20home%20phone&ca.mt=e&cb.device=c&ca.target=aud-361196748143:kwd-257863558210&lfokp=spectrum%20home%20phone&fp=ch1&o=go&sitelink=false&v=SEMBR&cmp=SEMR_BR_G_43700058891816965&tfn=R0117&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjOXs7KOj9wIVcRXUAR1A5Qp5EAAYASAAEgKKEfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds).
Makes me think of the Electromagnetic Spectrum every time I see the word.
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 20, 2022, 02:39:01 PM
If I don't have to deal with anyone in a Wal-Mart at all, I consider it a win. I have a Wal-Mart+ subscription, so I have the app, which tells me where in the store to find anything I need, and even if it's in stock, so I can even determine which store I want to shop at ahead of time if looking for something specific. I use Scan and Go as I'm loading the basket, so that by the time I make it to the self-checkout and press CheckOut on the app, I just scan the QR code, visually confirm that I've got the right credit card account selected, and then bag and leave. It's a faster and better experience from my perspective, because I don't need anyone's help to find anything in the store anyway, and I'm not there to chat up a cashier. It's better as far as I'm concerned to focus associates on keeping the shelves stocked, the carts collected, help those who are technologically phobic or inexperienced, or for the one-off cases where you might need cash back or to use cash.
Interesting you call their employees "associates." I wonder how many Walmart employees are actually "associates" by the definition that they helped originate by way of owning company shares? I still get a laugh of Target clinging so desperately onto calling their employees "Team Members" every time I hear in their radio chatter.
The strange thing to me that all the Military PXs brands try to call their employees "associates." You literally cannot be an associate as a government employee working for a non-appropriated agency.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 20, 2022, 02:45:27 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 20, 2022, 02:39:01 PM
If I don't have to deal with anyone in a Wal-Mart at all, I consider it a win. I have a Wal-Mart+ subscription, so I have the app, which tells me where in the store to find anything I need, and even if it's in stock, so I can even determine which store I want to shop at ahead of time if looking for something specific. I use Scan and Go as I'm loading the basket, so that by the time I make it to the self-checkout and press CheckOut on the app, I just scan the QR code, visually confirm that I've got the right credit card account selected, and then bag and leave. It's a faster and better experience from my perspective, because I don't need anyone's help to find anything in the store anyway, and I'm not there to chat up a cashier. It's better as far as I'm concerned to focus associates on keeping the shelves stocked, the carts collected, help those who are technologically phobic or inexperienced, or for the one-off cases where you might need cash back or to use cash.
Interesting you call their employees "associates." I wonder how many Walmart employees are actually "associates" by the definition that they helped originate by way of owning company shares? I still get a laugh of Target clinging so desperately onto calling their employees "Team Members" every time I hear in their radio chatter.
The strange thing to me that all the Military PXs brands try to call their employees "associates." You literally cannot be an associate as a government employee working for a non-appropriated agency.
Given that the benefits packages make owning shares of the company a desirable source of income, I'd say that the vast majority of the associates actually do have share ownership. Certain job roles also have stock options, which makes it a no-brainer, except during share price downturns, which typically haven't been long term in Wal-Mart's lifespan. I haven't worked there since 2004, so I don't know what sort of company contribution there is nowadays for the stock purchase program, but it's very unlikely to be 0. All in all, it helped buy a little house in downtown Bentonville in 7 years flat free and clear, so it wasn't terrible to work at, although they most assuredly get their money's worth out of you in whatever role you have, store or H.O. I spent some time in college working at a SuperCenter as a cashier, so I certainly don't envy anyone in that role nowadays. I always seem to get stuck with #5, which was the first non-express checkout lane back in the olden days. Sucked to be quick at scanning goods and landing in the busiest line in the store regularly, so pushed to become a cart shagger when the weather got nicer for a change of pace. No change in pay, so didn't mind it at all. Had to quit around finals time as they didn't work with me for time off to study, but helped get out of college with less than 5 figure debt. Don't think that's possible anymore, though.
Most retailers (I've can't comment on Walmart since I've never worked there) have either eliminated or substantially cut back on things like contribution matching or share purchasing. Sears even once had a pension program but it was grandfathered out a couple years after I started as a LP Manager there in 2005. When I was District LP Manager at Bealls Outlet they did sell company shares but I didn't partake since I intended to stay only 3-4 years. At best you might get an occasional 401k match these days, but it usually is contingent upon profits.
Sears did do partial tuition reimbursement, but I never partook since I quit college in 2007. The PXs do offer some form of tuition reimbursement but I haven't looked too deeply into it since I don't intent to return to school any time soon, if ever.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 20, 2022, 02:26:03 PM
I know customer service is dead especially on the phone. I'm probably the only person who would really wants a human being to transfer my call than wait for all the forthcoming menu options. Plus now with the operator function being depressed and then the voice activation system wants you to give a brief description of what you want to have done for you so the right person can be transferred to, is another bad customer service move.
[...]
However I feel that if enough people believed like I do about automated menu options on the phone, it would have been gone years ago. I know if I was not on the Spectrum, I would be more vocal , which makes me think that if a non Spectrum individual is not standing up against jobs being eliminated promoting customer services and ridding us of automated phone systems, it shows me people are quite comfortable living without customer service.
No, nobody likes phone trees, and they never have. People have been complaining about them since they were invented. But the sad truth of the matter is that
customer opinions do not matter to businesses. If a phone tree saves them more money in wages than they lose in sales from people not willing to deal with the phone tree, then they consider it a win, regardless of how people feel about it. Because if you're irritated and you keep giving them money...your irritation is of no concern to them.
Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.
– ... Hi. I'm Julie. What can I help you with today? ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ... "report an issue" ...
– Operator
– ... Sorry. I didn't get that. ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ...
– Operator
– ... Sorry. I didn't get that. ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ...
– OPERATOR!
– ... Please wait ... while I connect you to an operator ...
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 20, 2022, 02:26:03 PM
I know customer service is dead especially on the phone. I'm probably the only person who would really wants a human being to transfer my call than wait for all the forthcoming menu options. Plus now with the operator function being depressed and then the voice activation system wants you to give a brief description of what you want to have done for you so the right person can be transferred to, is another bad customer service move.
[...]
However I feel that if enough people believed like I do about automated menu options on the phone, it would have been gone years ago. I know if I was not on the Spectrum, I would be more vocal , which makes me think that if a non Spectrum individual is not standing up against jobs being eliminated promoting customer services and ridding us of automated phone systems, it shows me people are quite comfortable living without customer service.
No, nobody likes phone trees, and they never have. People have been complaining about them since they were invented. But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses. If a phone tree saves them more money in wages than they lose in sales from people not willing to deal with the phone tree, then they consider it a win, regardless of how people feel about it. Because if you're irritated and you keep giving them money...your irritation is of no concern to them.
Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.
No only to their employees do customer opinions count. Because if one complains to a manager, even if the employee was right and the customer totally wrong, then that particular employee is spoken to and asked to swallow his or her pride. When an executive and CEO makes a decision that pisses off customers, its called freedom to run a business.
Just like to me, when I complain at Walmart, when the 10 item of less is not enforced and a person comes into the express lane with a full shopping cart, I get a shrugged shoulder by the cashier waving the rule to that other shopper or told "You can't always get what you want and we can't tell another shopper that they can't buy items that make our company more profitable." when I complain about it. Yet, if I was the one entering the express line with a full basket and the person behind me complained about it, I would be told to go to the other check out lines or have the store manager say my money to them could be sacrificed.
Of course that is murphy's law syndrome, but the fact is complaints are not feared for by executives unless the hired help is mentioned in that complaint like you said. However, if enough people complain, action could be taken. Back when the tree first came out, if enough people brought that out to local media with reporters exposing the feelings of the average joe shopper on the six o clock news, we would still have real people answering the phones when we call a business or a specific service.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses.
That's true of many businesses, especially large corporations, but certainly not all businesses. Customer opinions do matter very much to many small and medium-sized businesses, who rely on better service, good reviews (both online and through word of mouth) and/or a unique selling point to attract customers away from those very same large corporations.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 20, 2022, 04:11:49 PM
Just like to me, when I complain at Walmart, when the 10 item of less is not enforced and a person comes into the express lane with a full shopping cart, I get a shrugged shoulder by the cashier waving the rule to that other shopper ... Yet, if I was the one entering the express line with a full basket and the person behind me complained about it, I would be told to go to the other check out lines or have the store manager say my money to them could be sacrificed.
Of course that is murphy's law syndrome ...
Haha, I was about to reply with "that's called Murphy's law (or 'just my luck')" before I saw your next sentence. :D
Quote from: roadman65 on April 20, 2022, 04:11:49 PM
... or told "You can't always get what you want and we can't tell another shopper that they can't buy items that make our company more profitable." when I complain about it. ...
Have you actually been told that? I can't stop laughing trying to imagine a cashier saying that. :-D
Quote from: webny99 on April 20, 2022, 04:13:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses.
That's true of many businesses, especially large corporations, but certainly not all businesses. Customer opinions do matter very much to many small and medium-sized businesses, who rely on better service, good reviews (both online and through word of mouth) and/or a unique selling point to attract customers away from those very same large corporations.
Heck yeah. Just talk to any motel manager who's had to fight a bogus 1-star reviews on Google or TripAdvisor, left vindictively by someone trying to put the motel out of business because of some personal ax to grind.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 03:59:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.
– ... Hi. I'm Julie. What can I help you with today? ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ... "report an issue" ...
– Operator
– ... Sorry. I didn't get that. ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ...
– Operator
– ... Sorry. I didn't get that. ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ...
– OPERATOR!
– ... Please wait ... while I connect you to an operator ...
I usually will just spout some nonsense phrase, like "spangle me!", to force this behavior quicker.
Quote from: webny99 on April 20, 2022, 04:13:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses.
That's true of many businesses, especially large corporations, but certainly not all businesses. Customer opinions do matter very much to many small and medium-sized businesses, who rely on better service, good reviews (both online and through word of mouth) and/or a unique selling point to attract customers away from those very same large corporations.
Eh...I think I've had my opinion matter precisely once, and that was a small restaurant in Natchez, Mississippi, where I was the first person to order a new menu item, and my opinion confirmed what the cook had already suspected himself.
Owning a small business (as I do), you do get exposure to a lot of customer opinions...but I've ignored about 99% of them, because their opinion was that I should do something that I didn't have the financial resources to pull off, or simply was entirely impossible under my business model. Of the ones I've actually followed, I've been burned by several because they seemed like a good idea but the guy offering the opinion was the only person in the world who had that opinion. That's another problem with small businesses–you just don't have meaningful data to make a decision sometimes.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 03:59:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
Anyway if I'm not feeling up for dealing with the phone tree whenever I call somewhere, when they ask me to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish, I hammer that 7 button hard until the software gets confused by my input and crashes me through to a human operator.
– ... Hi. I'm Julie. What can I help you with today? ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ... "report an issue" ...
– Operator
– ... Sorry. I didn't get that. ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ... "check my balance" ...
– Operator
– ... Sorry. I didn't get that. ... You can say ... "pay a bill" ...
– OPERATOR!
– ... Please wait ... while I connect you to an operator ...
Yes, just like it asks you to say or enter your sixteen digit credit card number followed by the pound sign.
You choose the say option. You say the first 8 numbers of your credit card and then the computer voice asks you to again to say or enter your sixteen digit credit card number followed by the pound sign.
Then you are in awe as it sounds like you haven't said a damn thing since the last time that message was said in which your half way through the sixteen numbers. How can it not hear that you just cited 16 numbers? Or at least heard some of the numbers as to miss all 16 numbers has to mean a major flaw in that computer or a major problem. It should have heard at least 1 out of 3 of those 8 digits you spoke if it was a simple connection issue or communication issue.
The quality of existing text-to-speech tech is garbage and not anywhere near ready for prime-time yet, but businesses have found applications for it, so they'll charge ahead and use it anyway despite its flaws.
Quote from: webny99 on April 20, 2022, 04:13:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses.
That's true of many businesses, especially large corporations, but certainly not all businesses. Customer opinions do matter very much to many small and medium-sized businesses, who rely on better service, good reviews (both online and through word of mouth) and/or a unique selling point to attract customers away from those very same large corporations.
Depends on how much dissatisfaction affects the business.
If you buy just some general purpose stuff at Walmart - toothpaste, bread or socks - chances are you don't really need any interaction.
What is the %% of such routine purchases? Probably above 95% for an average grocery store, >90% for Walmart but <10% for wedding dress studio. Hence difference in customer interaction standards. Loosing 5% of higher interaction business but saving 2 paychecks per store probably makes sense for Walmart. 50% of business for a more specialized store? Maybe that is too much.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 04:25:31 PM
Eh...I think I've had my opinion matter precisely once, and that was a small restaurant in Natchez, Mississippi, where I was the first person to order a new menu item, and my opinion confirmed what the cook had already suspected himself.
That may be the only time that your opinion/feedback was actively sought, but there's probably a whole lot more businesses that would care about your feedback if you had offered it, especially if your feedback was negative.
And of course, it works both ways: you're less likely to have a negative experience at a small business in the first place, because that business probably cares enough about its customers enough to have implemented customer feedback in the past and/or taken steps to make the customer experience as smooth as possible, precisely to avoid
more negative feedback. So if you didn't have any negative feedback to give, that in itself is likely a sign that the business cares about its customers.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 04:25:31 PM
Owning a small business (as I do), you do get exposure to a lot of customer opinions...but I've ignored about 99% of them, because their opinion was that I should do something that I didn't have the financial resources to pull off, or simply was entirely impossible under my business model. Of the ones I've actually followed, I've been burned by several because they seemed like a good idea but the guy offering the opinion was the only person in the world who had that opinion. That's another problem with small businesses–you just don't have meaningful data to make a decision sometimes.
Even just having exposure to customer opinions is a lot more than could be said of the owners/upper management in many large corporations. Of course, there are lots of times that customers don't understand the reasons why something wouldn't work for a particular business - time and financial resources both being big ones. But for small businesses that have multiple decision-makers and/or employees, there's often processes for not only getting feedback from customers, but also reviewing new concepts and ideas and putting them into action if they're deemed viable. I'd even say that for many businesses, this is an integral part of staying relevant and competitive in a constantly-changing business environment.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2022, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 19, 2022, 03:43:20 PM
For me the value of buying at Walmart isn't outweighed by the hassle it is to shop there. I rather pay nominally more to have an easier shopping experience and not be treated like a criminal like Walmart does to all their customers. The slow cashiers and unresponsive staff drove me away from Walmart a long time ago, the security theater just affirms why I opt to stay away. But those are all subjective measures, the average consumer might be willing to put up with more for perceived "value" than I.
My general impression is that the younger generation doesn't really care about their "experience" while shopping. I'm like you, in that I'd rather go somewhere pleasant, even if it means spending a few more dollars, but maybe we're a dying breed?
Millennials are more likely to be online-only, while Gen Z are more likely to mix and match between online and brick and mortar, according to McKinsey (https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/our-insights/meet-generation-z-shaping-the-future-of-shopping), a major consulting firm.
Quote from: Bruce on April 20, 2022, 05:40:51 PM
Millennials are more likely to be online-only, while Gen Z are more likely to mix and match between online and brick and mortar, according to McKinsey (https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/our-insights/meet-generation-z-shaping-the-future-of-shopping), a major consulting firm.
When they do go to brick & mortar stores, though, does it really matter what the "experience" is like? I have a sneaking suspicion they're more likely to care what color the carpet is than how the workers treat them as a customer.
In my experience, millennials and Gen Z are usually more accommodating with the staff and less likely to cause a fuss whenever something goes wrong, most likely because we're more likely to have been in the position of working customer service in a post-2008 corporate hellscape. Boomers generally graduated to back-office roles when expectations for customer service employees were different, and thus don't tend to empathize as readily with the impossible situations front-line employees can find themselves in nowadays. Gen X can go either way.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 06:45:55 PM
In my experience, millennials and Gen Z are usually more accommodating with the staff and less likely to cause a fuss whenever something goes wrong, most likely because we're more likely to have been in the position of working customer service in a post-2008 corporate hellscape. Boomers generally graduated to back-office roles when expectations for customer service employees were different, and thus don't tend to empathize as readily with the impossible situations front-line employees can find themselves in nowadays. Gen X can go either way.
There is absolutely some kind of generational thing about the way Boomers interact with restaurant staff and I'm not sure where it comes from.
This Gen-Xer generally reacts with empathy, but there have been some egregious and inexcusable incidents (the time we checked into the Hinckley Hilton with our then-four-month-old son at 3 pm and they didn't deliver his crib to our room until 1 am springs to mind).
Quote from: roadman65 on April 20, 2022, 02:26:03 PM
I know customer service is dead especially on the phone. I'm probably the only person who would really wants a human being to transfer my call than wait for all the forthcoming menu options. Plus now with the operator function being depressed and then the voice activation system wants you to give a brief description of what you want to have done for you so the right person can be transferred to, is another bad customer service move.
We all know that they only have one set of operators that can handle all concerns. It's a gatekeeper to keep operator interaction to a minimum and make you think that you can handle your problem without human interaction to keep labor costs way down so the CEO can make 20 more grand per month in his bonuses.
Of course the most common excuse is " It's the way of the world" and people feel that we are to evolve which is why no one will stand up for what they believe in anymore. Beliefs are discarded now and life is disposable.
However I feel that if enough people believed like I do about automated menu options on the phone, it would have been gone years ago. I know if I was not on the Spectrum, I would be more vocal , which makes me think that if a non Spectrum individual is not standing up against jobs being eliminated promoting customer services and ridding us of automated phone systems, it shows me people are quite comfortable living without customer service.
In my job, I both drive pizzas, and answer the phones when I'm in the store. I refuse to be a robot. Phone customer service is a little more difficult, because it's harder to 'read the room' when figuring out how to talk to someone. If you call my store and I answer, you're not going to get the 'script' from me. Pizza time is happy time, and I talk to you like the human you are. Same goes when I get to your house, except I have a better chance to read the room. Obviously, a house full of partiers gets a different experience than the little old lady.
What bums me out, is this 'push buttons, make stuff appear' mentality that started around the time of COVID starting. A good half of my deliveries are requesting 'no contact', and ordered via DoorCrash, GrubHump, or our local one, and they just say "leave it at the door". Cool, but don't bitch when your stuff is cold because you couldn't be bothered to put down the xbox controller. I get some people might not want social interaction, but c'mon, man. Think about the humans in the loop that made it happen for you.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 20, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
But the sad truth of the matter is that customer opinions do not matter to businesses.
You've run your own business, right? Have you accepted everyone's opinion and changed your business operations to accommodate everyone? If two customers voice opposite opinions, such as one only wants to talk to a computerized system and the other wants a human to answer the phone immediately, it would be almost impossible to accommodate both of them.
In most cases, alternatives don't readily exist that will accommodate what some people want, and some people can't easily get rid of what they have and switch.
Slightly off-topic but I wonder how this Wal-Mart at Central City menaged to hold on despite then there's no interchange where it's located (where US-62 pass under Western KY Parkway(Future I-369). https://goo.gl/maps/TLXppzVrh8W7fFoq8
Did Wal-Mart put there in the anticipation of KYDOT to built a interchange?
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on April 22, 2022, 05:02:02 PM
Slightly off-topic but I wonder how this Wal-Mart at Central City menaged to hold on despite then there's no interchange where it's located (where US-62 pass under Western KY Parkway(Future I-369). https://goo.gl/maps/TLXppzVrh8W7fFoq8
Did Wal-Mart put there in the anticipation of KYDOT to built a interchange?
Thinking of walmarts around here, they are not paranoic about being right at the interchange.
One of the smallest Walmarts in the Northwest just closed because it was apparently unprofitable.
https://twitter.com/seattletimes/status/1517728349027721216
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 21, 2022, 09:59:17 PM
In my job, I both drive pizzas, and answer the phones when I'm in the store. I refuse to be a robot. Phone customer service is a little more difficult, because it's harder to 'read the room' when figuring out how to talk to someone. If you call my store and I answer, you're not going to get the 'script' from me. Pizza time is happy time, and I talk to you like the human you are. Same goes when I get to your house, except I have a better chance to read the room. Obviously, a house full of partiers gets a different experience than the little old lady.
What bums me out, is this 'push buttons, make stuff appear' mentality that started around the time of COVID starting. A good half of my deliveries are requesting 'no contact', and ordered via DoorCrash, GrubHump, or our local one, and they just say "leave it at the door". Cool, but don't bitch when your stuff is cold because you couldn't be bothered to put down the xbox controller. I get some people might not want social interaction, but c'mon, man. Think about the humans in the loop that made it happen for you.
The Xbox thing is so bad RE: food delivery now is at least partially due to online gaming that cannot be paused unlike offline. It's like, if you're having someone come to the door just play offline for a bit so that you can pause. Something so simple like that and people won't even do that over food. Meanwhile 1800s people spent all day every day securing food.
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
Plus if they got the wrong address then it could sit there for who knows how long, if the person it was for ever finds it and picks it up at all. I've had multiple times where I've gone out the door in the morning only to find that Door Dash had mistakenly left food at my door for someone else within the past 24-48 hours. Worse, I can't even deliver the now-cold food because the bag doesn't have any information on who it's supposed to be for.
This happens with non-Door Dash deliveries too, but at least something shipped USPS/UPS/FedEx has address information on it and I can usually figure out where it needs to go (or at least ask my landlord). It's usually elsewhere in the building (delivery drivers tend to be confused by some apartments having exterior entrances and others having interior entrances, so with my apartment number matching the building number they assume I'm the entrance to the building), but not always.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2022, 03:29:15 PM
Customer service, to me, means things like this:
— ability to easily return items
— helpful employees
— responsiveness to phone calls
It has nothing to do with "goods value" at all, in my understanding of the term.
Great Customer Service is anticipating and acting on potential negative events -- being proactive!
The Kroger brand of stores has some sort of system you can see on monitors near the check-outtcustomer service areas that shows how many full-service lanes are open and how many should be open within the next 15-30 minutes.
It's also when you see a quickly building line at check out or customer service and managers quickly open up other lines or temporarily add an extra person or two to the mix to limit delays -- kind of like opening up more toll booth lanes (when possible) to keep backups and driver frustrations to a minimum.
I once worked for a certain big box store company as an assistant manager. I once got reamed by the GM because I jumped in and opened up another checkout lane to ease a brief 5-7 person customer backup. The reason why was HIS boss (Mr. "Happy", the District Manager) was in the store and preferred me watching the one-way entrance door to make sure nobody snuck out the wrong door (rarely happened as the electric sensor did not open for wrong-way traffic).
Either the GM was afraid I was going to run the front end better than him in the presence of his boss or it was because "Mr. Happy" cared more about less-important SOPs than making the customer experience the best it could be at that time.
Going to businesses with short-handed departments, while there are other employees who can easily pitch-in to assist in a situation but instead are told to stand around and do nothing is not good customer service.
Granted, in the post-COVID employment environment, there are real shortages in some areas (hospitality,...), but good customer service is like a good baseball team -‐ just because you are the team's designated ace pitcher doesn't mean you only throw balls on the mound, sometimes you have to cover bases or pop-ups in the shallow outfield.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on April 22, 2022, 05:02:02 PM
Slightly off-topic but I wonder how this Wal-Mart at Central City menaged to hold on despite then there's no interchange where it's located (where US-62 pass under Western KY Parkway(Future I-369). https://goo.gl/maps/TLXppzVrh8W7fFoq8
Did Wal-Mart put there in the anticipation of KYDOT to built a interchange?
It wasn't built to serve passing traffic on the parkway, but to serve the local residents. It's situated midway between the two largest towns in the county (Greenville and Central City).
The US 431 interchange is one of the original ones on the parkway, as evidenced by the cloverleaf design (a toll booth was there). A new exit was built in later years just west of the US 62 bridge, and it's signed "To US 62" and Greenville is one of the destinations.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
While I don't drive for doorcrash (I work for a regional chain), I personally pay close attention to instructions like that. But I'm also the oldest person in the store, and I suspect a lot of the kids don't. Deliveries like this, I'll usually sit there for a minute to make sure you get your stuff, unless you acknowledged my text. If it's super cold outside, I'll send the text when I'm a block or so away, so your food doesn't sit out in the cold too long.
Yeah, I usually have much better luck with places that employ their own drivers, even the chains like Pizza Hut and Domino's. Our Pizza Hut's no-contact delivery during the worst of the pandemic was like clockwork–they sat the pizza on the brick wall surrounding our porch (there's a perfectly pizza-box-sized column on either side of the sidewalk), rang the bell, and then by the time I got to the door they'd be standing by their car. When I got the pizza they'd wave and get into their car to leave.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2022, 04:53:22 PM
Yeah, I usually have much better luck with places that employ their own drivers, even the chains like Pizza Hut and Domino's. Our Pizza Hut's no-contact delivery during the worst of the pandemic was like clockwork–they sat the pizza on the brick wall surrounding our porch (there's a perfectly pizza-box-sized column on either side of the sidewalk), rang the bell, and then by the time I got to the door they'd be standing by their car. When I got the pizza they'd wave and get into their car to leave.
I have a marked disdain for leaving people's food on the ground, unless there's just no other option. I'll use a chair on the porch, a column like what's on your porch, anything I can find. If it's not immediately visible from the door, I'll send a picture so they can find it. There's a big difference between being "a" pizza guy, vs. being "the" pizza guy. The kids that work the rush hour are doing it for beer money. I'm doing it for a living.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 24, 2022, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
While I don't drive for doorcrash (I work for a regional chain), I personally pay close attention to instructions like that. But I'm also the oldest person in the store, and I suspect a lot of the kids don't. Deliveries like this, I'll usually sit there for a minute to make sure you get your stuff, unless you acknowledged my text. If it's super cold outside, I'll send the text when I'm a block or so away, so your food doesn't sit out in the cold too long.
I do instacart orders for groceries. There is an instruction for the driver to pull into our driveway and leave the groceries at our side door. Total of 3 feet of distance from the driveway to the door.
About 1/3 of the time, the delivery person will pull up on the street and carry everything the 50ish feet to the front door. I tried to make it easier for them..
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 25, 2022, 02:12:39 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2022, 04:53:22 PM
Yeah, I usually have much better luck with places that employ their own drivers, even the chains like Pizza Hut and Domino's. Our Pizza Hut's no-contact delivery during the worst of the pandemic was like clockwork–they sat the pizza on the brick wall surrounding our porch (there's a perfectly pizza-box-sized column on either side of the sidewalk), rang the bell, and then by the time I got to the door they'd be standing by their car. When I got the pizza they'd wave and get into their car to leave.
I have a marked disdain for leaving people's food on the ground, unless there's just no other option. I'll use a chair on the porch, a column like what's on your porch, anything I can find. If it's not immediately visible from the door, I'll send a picture so they can find it. There's a big difference between being "a" pizza guy, vs. being "the" pizza guy. The kids that work the rush hour are doing it for beer money. I'm doing it for a living.
For a time, Domino's (and maybe Papa John's as well) were providing these little cardboard stands so that the food was being left an inch or two above the ground, rather than on the ground.
There's only one door to our townhouse, and there's a storm door that opens outwards. Close to 100% of the time, they'll leave the food in a place where I can't open the door without knocking over/shoving the food out of the way.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 24, 2022, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
While I don't drive for doorcrash (I work for a regional chain), I personally pay close attention to instructions like that. But I'm also the oldest person in the store, and I suspect a lot of the kids don't. Deliveries like this, I'll usually sit there for a minute to make sure you get your stuff, unless you acknowledged my text. If it's super cold outside, I'll send the text when I'm a block or so away, so your food doesn't sit out in the cold too long.
I do instacart orders for groceries. There is an instruction for the driver to pull into our driveway and leave the groceries at our side door. Total of 3 feet of distance from the driveway to the door.
About 1/3 of the time, the delivery person will pull up on the street and carry everything the 50ish feet to the front door. I tried to make it easier for them..
Backing up into the street may be a hassle if you don't do it too often.
Quote from: kalvado on April 25, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 24, 2022, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
While I don't drive for doorcrash (I work for a regional chain), I personally pay close attention to instructions like that. But I'm also the oldest person in the store, and I suspect a lot of the kids don't. Deliveries like this, I'll usually sit there for a minute to make sure you get your stuff, unless you acknowledged my text. If it's super cold outside, I'll send the text when I'm a block or so away, so your food doesn't sit out in the cold too long.
I do instacart orders for groceries. There is an instruction for the driver to pull into our driveway and leave the groceries at our side door. Total of 3 feet of distance from the driveway to the door.
About 1/3 of the time, the delivery person will pull up on the street and carry everything the 50ish feet to the front door. I tried to make it easier for them..
Backing up into the street may be a hassle if you don't do it too often.
I'm 250 feet from a dead end. Not talking 4-lane highway traffic here.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 25, 2022, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: kalvado on April 25, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 24, 2022, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
While I don't drive for doorcrash (I work for a regional chain), I personally pay close attention to instructions like that. But I'm also the oldest person in the store, and I suspect a lot of the kids don't. Deliveries like this, I'll usually sit there for a minute to make sure you get your stuff, unless you acknowledged my text. If it's super cold outside, I'll send the text when I'm a block or so away, so your food doesn't sit out in the cold too long.
I do instacart orders for groceries. There is an instruction for the driver to pull into our driveway and leave the groceries at our side door. Total of 3 feet of distance from the driveway to the door.
About 1/3 of the time, the delivery person will pull up on the street and carry everything the 50ish feet to the front door. I tried to make it easier for them..
Backing up into the street may be a hassle if you don't do it too often.
I'm 250 feet from a dead end. Not talking 4-lane highway traffic here.
And 1 out of 3 drivers don't realize that. Seems about right
Quote from: kalvado on April 25, 2022, 10:48:50 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 25, 2022, 09:29:30 AM
Quote from: kalvado on April 25, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 24, 2022, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
While I don't drive for doorcrash (I work for a regional chain), I personally pay close attention to instructions like that. But I'm also the oldest person in the store, and I suspect a lot of the kids don't. Deliveries like this, I'll usually sit there for a minute to make sure you get your stuff, unless you acknowledged my text. If it's super cold outside, I'll send the text when I'm a block or so away, so your food doesn't sit out in the cold too long.
I do instacart orders for groceries. There is an instruction for the driver to pull into our driveway and leave the groceries at our side door. Total of 3 feet of distance from the driveway to the door.
About 1/3 of the time, the delivery person will pull up on the street and carry everything the 50ish feet to the front door. I tried to make it easier for them..
Backing up into the street may be a hassle if you don't do it too often.
I'm 250 feet from a dead end. Not talking 4-lane highway traffic here.
And 1 out of 3 drivers don't realize that. Seems about right
From the number of cars that go up to the end of the street, get confused, turn around and go back down the street, they can't read the DEAD END sign at the end of the block either.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 25, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 24, 2022, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2022, 04:43:42 PM
I've mentioned before in other threads that I have a problem with DoorDash drivers who assume the "order delivered" message on the phone is sufficient notice that the food is there. For me, it's not. My wife often orders the food and then takes a nap (with her phone on silent of course) and I'm the one responsible for getting the food inside and waking her up when it gets there. We put in the order notes specifically to ring the bell but it's a crapshoot whether they actually do it or not.
While I don't drive for doorcrash (I work for a regional chain), I personally pay close attention to instructions like that. But I'm also the oldest person in the store, and I suspect a lot of the kids don't. Deliveries like this, I'll usually sit there for a minute to make sure you get your stuff, unless you acknowledged my text. If it's super cold outside, I'll send the text when I'm a block or so away, so your food doesn't sit out in the cold too long.
I do instacart orders for groceries. There is an instruction for the driver to pull into our driveway and leave the groceries at our side door. Total of 3 feet of distance from the driveway to the door.
About 1/3 of the time, the delivery person will pull up on the street and carry everything the 50ish feet to the front door. I tried to make it easier for them..
Attention to details like that (among other details) is why I out-earn most of the other drivers in tips, as well. I am constantly complimented by customers, from 'you're the only one who's ever been able to find this place', to 'you're the first one to follow (whatever odd instruction)'
The answer is yes. If nothing else, proton decay will make sure everything in this universe quits existing...LOL!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2022, 10:56:03 AM
The answer is yes. If nothing else, proton decay will make sure everything in this universe quits existing...LOL!
Rick
That depends, do you believe the universe will end in the Big Rip or Big Crunch? If it is the latter then in theory the entirety of time could repeat on an endless loop. That's assuming there aren't multiple universes which we can't see beyond the Cosmic Horizon.
Quote from: nexus73 on April 26, 2022, 10:56:03 AM
The answer is yes. If nothing else, proton decay will make sure everything in this universe quits existing...LOL!
Rick
In a shorter term, I believe GE was the last company of original Dow index list. While it still exists, it is pushed off the index. The rest of the list is either out of business, absorbed into bigger companies, or whatnot.
Walmart can't fail. At least for 20 years or so. I work there and am 21 years into a life sentence, so it has to last at least until I can retire, if I ever can retire.
Gig apps like DoorDash and Instacart have awful backend systems. For quite a few orders, especially those placed through the merchant, the customer instructions will simply get lost in the system and never show up on the driver's side. Or if they do show up, it's only AFTER they press "Arrived and parked", as is the case with Instacart most of the time.
There's also the issue of some drivers being unable to read English instructions, but that's a whole other issue.
Walmart has a distinct advantage over Amazon where returns are concerned. You can return an item purchased from their Web site to any store, even if the item is available online only.
Amazon requires that you drop an item off at a UPS Store if you want free shipping, or pay $5.99 to return an item if you use the standard UPS drop off or pickup service. And they're using UPS for returns even though the item was originally shipped by USPS.
The nearest UPS store is at least an hour away and it would cost more in gas and time to go there to drop the item off to take advantage of free shipping on returns.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 27, 2022, 01:45:42 PM
Walmart has a distinct advantage over Amazon where returns are concerned. You can return an item purchased from their Web site to any store, even if the item is available online only.
Amazon requires that you drop an item off at a UPS Store if you want free shipping, or pay $5.99 to return an item if you use the standard UPS drop off or pickup service. And they're using UPS for returns even though the item was originally shipped by USPS.
The nearest UPS store is at least an hour away and it would cost more in gas and time to go there to drop the item off to take advantage of free shipping on returns.
It's not an option for everyone, but I think you can also drop them off at a Kohl's.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 27, 2022, 01:45:42 PM
Walmart has a distinct advantage over Amazon where returns are concerned. You can return an item purchased from their Web site to any store, even if the item is available online only.
Amazon requires that you drop an item off at a UPS Store if you want free shipping, or pay $5.99 to return an item if you use the standard UPS drop off or pickup service. And they're using UPS for returns even though the item was originally shipped by USPS.
The nearest UPS store is at least an hour away and it would cost more in gas and time to go there to drop the item off to take advantage of free shipping on returns.
A few things on this:
1. $5.99 is relatively inexpensive to ship something. Even anyone with an account with UPS is going to be paying more than that to ship and pay themselves.
2. Most areas that lack UPS stores also lack Walmart stores. There's probably very few parts of the country that have one or more Walmart stores nearby but no UPS stores to be found.
3. Making it very easy to return items is great from a customer service perspective, but it can also encourage returns, which are costly and time-consuming. That's especially true for an online business like Amazon, where customers can't see/touch/try on items before purchasing, and can't return to a service desk where they can be re-checked in immediately. If they make the return process too easy, it will happen more often, and that hurts their bottom line.
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 02:50:16 PM
1. $5.99 is relatively inexpensive to ship something. Even anyone with an account with UPS is going to be paying more than that to ship and pay themselves.
Meanwhile, dropping it off at the customer service desk next time you're at Wal-Mart is free. $5.99 might not break the bank, but it's definitely an advantage to have returns handled for free.
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 02:50:16 PM
2. Most areas that lack UPS stores also lack Walmart stores. There's probably very few parts of the country that have one or more Walmart stores nearby but no UPS stores to be found.
It's still an extra place to go. But, having said that...
HB, you might also check for a "UPS Authorized Shipping Provider" closer to where you live. It isn't just UPS Store locations that can accept returns. The Amazon returns website states "return the item(s) to any UPS
drop-off point [emphasis mine]". https://www.ups.com/dropoff/
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 02:50:16 PM
3. Making it very easy to return items is great from a customer service perspective, but it can also encourage returns, which are costly and time-consuming. That's especially true for an online business like Amazon, where customers can't see/touch/try on items before purchasing, and can't return to a service desk where they can be re-checked in immediately. If they make the return process too easy, it will happen more often, and that hurts their bottom line.
I don't think he meant it was an advantage for
Wal-Mart, but rather that it's an advantage for
the customer.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 03:04:57 PM
I don't think he meant it was an advantage for Wal-Mart, but rather that it's an advantage for the customer.
Well, that's just it. Customers may find it easier to do returns with Walmart than Amazon, but returns are something both companies want to avoid to begin with. So from Amazon's perspective, any return that can be charged freight or avoided altogether is
their advantage, not Walmart's.
By the way, I'm quite familiar with the financial drain that returns are on a company. For about five or six years, I worked in the returns warehouse for a publishing company. You could say that my entire department was a financial drain on the company–except that a returns policy is part of the agreements made with distributers/customers, so making returns a difficult ordeal would actually hinder business.
Example. Part of the agreement we had with Wal-Mart's distributor was to guarantee that our NYT best-selling series would be 'in stock' for them. That distributor would buy, say, $100,000 worth of product from us, put Wal-Mart price labels on said product, sell $20,000 worth of it, then return the other $80,000 worth and order another $100,000 worth. This meant several things for us as a business. First, it meant that we had to either (a) go through the labor-intensive process of manually removing the price tags in order to make the returns saleable to other stores, or (b) automatically consider all stickered returns as 'damaged'. Secondly, no matter which of the aforementioned options we chose, we ended up with a huge glut of product–saleable but nonetheless accumulating in the warehouse if (a), or not saleable if (b). Thirdly, because of that, pallets and pallets' worth of returned product just kept piling up, to the point that we ended up having to buy another warehouse off-site. Lastly, even with that, it still ended up being the most profitable solution to send trucks full of returned product from Chicago to Tennessee in order to be shredded into pulp–and to fly an employee down there and back, just to watch it happen, in order to ensure the recycler wasn't turning around and selling the product out from under us instead of actually shredding it (which did happen).
Another fun aspect of doing business with said distributor is that, again as part of their business agreement with us, they employed a process called 'reverse credit'. This meant that they would purchase new product with a credit amount that they determined was appropriate based on what they returned to us. And the way they determined that credit amount was–supposedly–to take the average weight of all the product they bought from us, extrapolate that amount to be an average dollar amount per pallet of product, and then simply count how many pallets they shipped us. And, wouldn't you know it, that number just happened to come to precisely $10,000 per pallet. Our job was then to go through it all, piece by piece, scan them into the system, and calculate how much our total deviated from theirs. Then we sent that info over to accounting to hash it out with the customer. And, because we're talking about a NYT best-selling book series, this was a daily-to-weekly occurrence.
But what was the alternative to the scenario I just described? Not doing business with the largest retailer in the nation? Well, that isn't exactly a winning business model either. Wal-Mart is a large enough company, that it can dictate the rules to everyone it works with, knowing full well that hardly anyone will be willing to say no.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
By the way, I'm quite familiar with the financial drain that returns are on a company. For about five or six years, I worked in the returns warehouse ...
I work in returns too, but not full-time; quite the opposite, in fact. It's one of those things where my part of the process is almost permanently backlogged because I never seem to get to it and don't
have to get to it on any given day. But eventually, it has to be done. So I know plenty about returns, too, and that's maybe partly why I find them so annoying.
But still, :cheers:
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
Example. Part of the agreement we had with Wal-Mart's distributor was to guarantee that our NYT best-selling series would be 'in stock' for them. That distributor would buy, say, $100,000 worth of product from us, put Wal-Mart price labels on said product, sell $20,000 worth of it, then return the other $80,000 worth and order another $100,000 worth. This meant several things for us as a business. First, it meant that we had to either (a) go through the labor-intensive process of manually removing the price tags in order to make the returns saleable to other stores, or (b) automatically consider all stickered returns as 'damaged'. Secondly, no matter which of the aforementioned options we chose, we ended up with a huge glut of product–saleable but nonetheless accumulating in the warehouse if (a), or not saleable if (b). Thirdly, because of that, pallets and pallets' worth of returned product just kept piling up, to the point that we ended up having to buy another warehouse off-site. Lastly, even with that, it still ended up being the most profitable solution to send trucks full of returned product from Chicago to Tennessee in order to be shredded into pulp–and to fly an employee down there and back, just to watch it happen, in order to ensure the recycler wasn't turning around and selling the product out from under us instead of actually shredding it (which did happen).
What!?!? That's fascinating, but if they insisted on returning that much product, why wouldn't you just resend them what they returned last time?
When I searched for the nearest UPS stores, naturally Richmond and Winchester are the closest, but they're an hour away. The closest one to the east of me is Pikeville. I don't travel to any of these areas on a frequent basis. OTOH, I'm within a mile of Walmart three days out of every week.
The last time I returned an item to Amazon, it was because the item was defective and didn't work. That was a free return and I had to use UPS, and I dropped the item in a mailbox-like drop box in Morehead because I was already there for an optometrist appointment.
In this instance, I would be returning the item unopened because it's no longer needed. We had a cat with some aggressive behavioral issues, so I ordered a Feliway starter kit. Unfortunately, the cat got sick and died so we never opened the Feliway.
Amazon was cheaper than Walmart for the purchase. In retrospect I should have ordered it from Walmart and I could have dropped it off for a return without charge.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 03:04:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 02:50:16 PM
2. Most areas that lack UPS stores also lack Walmart stores. There's probably very few parts of the country that have one or more Walmart stores nearby but no UPS stores to be found.
It's still an extra place to go. But, having said that...
HB, you might also check for a "UPS Authorized Shipping Provider" closer to where you live. It isn't just UPS Store locations that can accept returns. The Amazon returns website states "return the item(s) to any UPS drop-off point [emphasis mine]". https://www.ups.com/dropoff/
What I found was you get the return label free if you take it to a UPS Store, but have to pay the $5.99 if you take it to an authorized dropoff point. Maybe that was just in the app; I may need to take a look on the Web site to see if it differs.
The UPS truck runs nearly daily at my office so it seems like the office is a de facto drop point.
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 03:53:00 PM
What!?!? That's fascinating, but if they insisted on returning that much product, why wouldn't you just resend them what they returned last time?
We may have eventually come to that, I can't remember for sure, but I don't think so. But shipping was a different department.
Our usual returns procedure, after processing the items, was to sort and collect them into what was basically the opposite of pick staging, until such time as we reached a case-quantity of a given item–at which point we would seal up the box and slap a label on it. Then we would send the filled boxes to the picking end of the warehouse, and those guys would put them on the pallets with the never-opened cases for future pick orders. However, due to the volume, the best-selling series was handled differently: we brick-piled them loose on pallets until the pallet reached 1120 books, then put angle-board on the edges, tossed a pallet-topper on top, and stretch-wrapped it as one big pallet-sized case-quantity. Basically, we had so much new product on hand, due to the up-front 'in stock' agreement, that I don't think we ever
needed to resell the returns back to them: our warehouse would numerically never run out of new stock.
Bear in mind that this was a huge boon to the business. Before that series (before I got there), shipping and receiving were all handled out of one warehouse with just four docks. Most similar businesses I'm familiar with (Christian publishing houses) are fairly small operations in the physical sense, so hitting the NYT best-selling list puts a business like that into a whole other level. In fact, some of them invest so much money into the infrastructure required to support the sales volume that, when the bubble bursts on that specific product, they can no longer survive. If I remember correctly, that's part of the reason Multnomah Publishers was bought by Random House: the
Prayer of Jabez hype caused them to skyrocket so far and so fast that they could no longer afford their operations after
Prayer of Jabez sales dropped off.
Amazon also allows free returns from its own stores, which are slowly expanding into more and more cities. Go stores, Fresh stores, their Pickup Hubs, or their soon-to-be-defunct 4-star and Books outlets.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
By the way, I'm quite familiar with the financial drain that returns are on a company. For about five or six years, I worked in the returns warehouse for a publishing company. [...]
Wow, if there was any question as to how print media is doing in the 21st century, there's your answer.
I'm sure it all gets recycled, at least, but the practice of pulping perfectly good books due to economic concerns has never sat well with me. Surely there's enough libraries in this country that would love to have them... (Granted, I'm sure most of these have already been purchased by a library, or else are not library-quality subject matter, but still.)
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
But what was the alternative to the scenario I just described? Not doing business with the largest retailer in the nation? Well, that isn't exactly a winning business model either. Wal-Mart is a large enough company, that it can dictate the rules to everyone it works with, knowing full well that hardly anyone will be willing to say no.
It really depends on the business's target market, how well it matches up with Walmart's, and whether the expected return is worth the hassle of dealing with Walmart's business practices. In my case, I've analyzed it a couple times and always come to the conclusion not to bother. My playing cards sell for $22.99 for a 2-deck set; there's a market for cards at that price point for sure (some of my competitors sell for as high as $31), but your average Walmart customer is going to go for the Bicycles at $1.99 a pack. Given that, even spending the time to make an overture to Walmart to begin the process of being evaluated as a supplier has a negative expected value to me.
It's an unfortunate truth in this country how much large businesses can throw their weight around when dealing with smaller suppliers. Walmart is not alone in this regard; I've heard stories of Disney, the Trump Organization, etc. taking their sweet time paying invoices because, well, you need the money more than The Mouse needs you as a supplier, so who holds the power there? I personally had Amazon scam me out of over $100 worth of product simply because they absolutely refused to engage with me on any level other than form letters. I cut business ties with them after that. I don't make anywhere near enough money to be able to afford that happening more than once.
Quote from: Bruce on April 27, 2022, 04:28:22 PM
Amazon also allows free returns from its own stores, which are slowly expanding into more and more cities. Go stores, Fresh stores, their Pickup Hubs, or their soon-to-be-defunct 4-star and Books outlets.
I suspect it will be a cold day in hell before Bozos opens any of those in Pikeville, Kentucky.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
By the way, I'm quite familiar with the financial drain that returns are on a company. For about five or six years, I worked in the returns warehouse for a publishing company. You could say that my entire department was a financial drain on the company–except that a returns policy is part of the agreements made with distributers/customers, so making returns a difficult ordeal would actually hinder business.
Example. Part of the agreement we had with Wal-Mart's distributor was to guarantee that our NYT best-selling series would be 'in stock' for them. That distributor would buy, say, $100,000 worth of product from us, put Wal-Mart price labels on said product, sell $20,000 worth of it, then return the other $80,000 worth and order another $100,000 worth. This meant several things for us as a business. First, it meant that we had to either (a) go through the labor-intensive process of manually removing the price tags in order to make the returns saleable to other stores, or (b) automatically consider all stickered returns as 'damaged'. Secondly, no matter which of the aforementioned options we chose, we ended up with a huge glut of product–saleable but nonetheless accumulating in the warehouse if (a), or not saleable if (b). Thirdly, because of that, pallets and pallets' worth of returned product just kept piling up, to the point that we ended up having to buy another warehouse off-site. Lastly, even with that, it still ended up being the most profitable solution to send trucks full of returned product from Chicago to Tennessee in order to be shredded into pulp–and to fly an employee down there and back, just to watch it happen, in order to ensure the recycler wasn't turning around and selling the product out from under us instead of actually shredding it (which did happen).
Another fun aspect of doing business with said distributor is that, again as part of their business agreement with us, they employed a process called 'reverse credit'. This meant that they would purchase new product with a credit amount that they determined was appropriate based on what they returned to us. And the way they determined that credit amount was–supposedly–to take the average weight of all the product they bought from us, extrapolate that amount to be an average dollar amount per pallet of product, and then simply count how many pallets they shipped us. And, wouldn't you know it, that number just happened to come to precisely $10,000 per pallet. Our job was then to go through it all, piece by piece, scan them into the system, and calculate how much our total deviated from theirs. Then we sent that info over to accounting to hash it out with the customer. And, because we're talking about a NYT best-selling book series, this was a daily-to-weekly occurrence.
But what was the alternative to the scenario I just described? Not doing business with the largest retailer in the nation? Well, that isn't exactly a winning business model either. Wal-Mart is a large enough company, that it can dictate the rules to everyone it works with, knowing full well that hardly anyone will be willing to say no.
Well at least we know Walmart has lapped the federal government as the USA's most ineffective bureaucracy.
I know Sam Walton wanted things done his way, but I imagine this wasn't quite what he dreamed up 60 years ago.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 05:04:34 PM
I'm sure it all gets recycled, at least, but the practice of pulping perfectly good books due to economic concerns has never sat well with me. Surely there's enough libraries in this country that would love to have them... (Granted, I'm sure most of these have already been purchased by a library, or else are not library-quality subject matter, but still.)
Believe you me, it didn't sit well with the people making that decision either. People who produce books for a living because they love books. People who produce books they believe for religious reasons need to make it into the hands of people in order to improve their lives. But we literally couldn't even
give them away, we had so many on hand.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 06:07:18 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 05:04:34 PM
I'm sure it all gets recycled, at least, but the practice of pulping perfectly good books due to economic concerns has never sat well with me. Surely there's enough libraries in this country that would love to have them... (Granted, I'm sure most of these have already been purchased by a library, or else are not library-quality subject matter, but still.)
Believe you me, it didn't sit well with the people making that decision either. People who produce books for a living because they love books. People who produce books they believe for religious reasons need to make it into the hands of people in order to improve their lives. But we literally couldn't even give them away, we had so many on hand.
One wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.
And then the corporations have the gall to insist that the everyday consumer should be the one to make sacrifices when it comes to the environment.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2022, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 03:53:00 PM
What!?!? That's fascinating, but if they insisted on returning that much product, why wouldn't you just resend them what they returned last time?
We may have eventually come to that, I can't remember for sure, but I don't think so. But shipping was a different department.
... Basically, we had so much new product on hand, due to the up-front 'in stock' agreement, that I don't think we ever needed to resell the returns back to them: our warehouse would numerically never run out of new stock.
Right, I was thinking of it more from a financial perspective and it seems like it would make sense to use the returns to fill the new orders to avoid holding so much inventory. But if they did that without holding enough new inventory and got found out by the customer, I'm sure there would have been legal ramifications.
Still, it seems absurd to waste product like that. I wonder if it would have made sense for you to stock product stickered for Walmart separate from else and fill their orders from that stockpile. That would have also saved them the step of stickering the product again.
Or better yet, institute a policy that they don't get full credit for goods with stickered products. If they're not going to put them on their sales floor, they have no business stickering them.
But of course Lord Walton demands it to be so.
In some states things have to be snickered unless they are bulk items. Michigan is one I think.
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 27, 2022, 09:33:25 PM
In some states things have to be snickered
I'm sure Mars, Inc. appreciates that.
Even libraries' clientelle wants books reasonably promptly after they come out, not after they've been sent out to a bookstore, sat on the shelf for several months, and then returned. If it's a novel or popular nonfiction, once it comes out in paperback a lot of people won't wait for the library's copy to be available.
For a lot of library books the purchase price is a fairly small part of getting the book and making it ready for the shelf. Verifying that it's the same book as you ordered, cataloging, putting a call number label on it, and stamping it as library property add up to more in staff time than the purchase price... especially since most libraries buy most of their books from a wholesaler that gives them a good discount.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 07:57:44 PM
One wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 08:26:05 PM
I was thinking of it more from a financial perspective and it seems like it would make sense to use the returns to fill the new orders to avoid holding so much inventory.
I think you're still not appreciating the pickle we were in. By the time the company realized how that distributor ran their operation, we had already had gazillions of copies printed and warehoused in order to fulfil orders. Remember, we were contractually guaranteeing them in stock, so we had to have the stock up front ourselves. By the time we
could have made any of the decisions you suggest, it was already too late to have made a difference in our stock levels or overhead: the printing had already been done, trees killed, conveyor systems upgraded, warehouse space constructed/purchased, etc.
Before that time, our usual customers were places like Mardel, Family Christian Stores, LifeWay, et al–bookstores just as likely as not to be run by Christian managers, selling Christian literature, who love literature. The quantity of returns from stores like that is a lot less, and the condition is a lot better, than from the likes of Kmart's, Sam's Club's, or Wal-Mart's middle-man distributors. And the business environment, procedures, and relationships were a world apart in general.
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 08:26:05 PM
I wonder if it would have made sense for you to stock product stickered for Walmart separate from else and fill their orders from that stockpile. That would have also saved them the step of stickering the product again.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 08:31:26 PM
Or better yet, institute a policy that they don't get full credit for goods with stickered products. If they're not going to put them on their sales floor, they have no business stickering them.
Well, we still had to go through each item, piece by piece, and determine its overall condition–not just whether it had no sticker, a sticker that could be removed, or a sticker that wasn't worth trying to remove. Was the book bent? were the pages yellowed? was the cover scratched up? And, based on the overall condition, we scanned it into the system as either 'good' or 'damaged' and warehoused it appropriately. It was still a labor-intensive process, no matter how you slice it. And for what? It was literally no advantage to us as a company over just sending them new stock.
Eventually, if I remember correctly, the decision was made to automatically treat all returns of that product line (maybe just from that distributor, maybe from every customer, I can't recall) as 'damaged', because it made no sense to waste time or space re-warehousing it. But again, that's a huge decision for people whose lives are defined by putting books in people's hands. The VPs were, quite understandably, very slow in making that decision. By that point, I had personally stretch-wrapped hundreds of pallets–perhaps more than a thousand, perhaps thousands–full of 1120 books each that would never be sold, destined for a shredder in Tennessee.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2022, 07:25:29 PM
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
We do grocery pickup in Erwin and we havent had any problems. $35 is recommended now, albeit you have to pay a $5.99 below minimum fee. After all, we had some items that had to be shipped, for example, my Equate body wash (dove knockoff) had to be shipped via FedEx to the house.
Oh and by the way, forgot to tell you all since its been two months I've been off this forum. I am finally starting to drive! :clap:
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 07:57:44 PMOne wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.
Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one. T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended. Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).
And it's even worse on a global scale. Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:42:29 AM
Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).
None of the large middle-man distributors I received returns from at that publishing house had any interest in our sending product back that wasn't ours to begin with. It was cheaper for them to have just 'lost' that product than it was to re-process it and send it to the correct publisher. On occasion, that meant we got to pick through it and keep whatever we wanted–otherwise it was just go in the trash.
I ended up with quite a few interesting music CDs that way, including some albums I still listen to more than fifteen years later. For example, that's how I first discovered Avril Lavigne, Delerium, and Jeff Parker (very different genres). One day, one of us went home with a numbered edition of the Geneva Bible, worth three figures. And one day, someone had fun driving over a Britney Spears CD with a 20,000-pound forklift, over and over again.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 07:57:44 PMOne wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.
Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one. T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended. Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).
And it's even worse on a global scale. Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.
I used to work in the IT department of a global auto parts manufacturer, which did stuff like this all the time.
An example: One of our subsidiaries made wiper blades. The extruded rubber blades and and the various metal and plastic pieces for the wiper arms were made in a plant in Indiana. Then, the parts were sent to a warehouse in Texas. From there, the pieces were separated into smaller lots and sent to our plant in Mexico, where they were assembled. Then, the parts got sent back to the Texas location, sat around for a while and then shipped back to Indiana where they were packaged for retail and OEM customers. Then, they were shipped to our warehouse in Alabama for distribution to customers.
Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2022, 07:25:29 PM
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
We do grocery pickup in Erwin and we havent had any problems. $35 is recommended now, albeit you have to pay a $5.99 below minimum fee. After all, we had some items that had to be shipped, for example, my Equate body wash (dove knockoff) had to be shipped via FedEx to the house.
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Quote from: catch22 on April 28, 2022, 12:54:49 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 07:57:44 PMOne wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.
Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one. T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended. Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).
And it's even worse on a global scale. Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.
I used to work in the IT department of a global auto parts manufacturer, which did stuff like this all the time.
An example: One of our subsidiaries made wiper blades. The extruded rubber blades and and the various metal and plastic pieces for the wiper arms were made in a plant in Indiana. Then, the parts were sent to a warehouse in Texas. From there, the pieces were separated into smaller lots and sent to our plant in Mexico, where they were assembled. Then, the parts got sent back to the Texas location, sat around for a while and then shipped back to Indiana where they were packaged for retail and OEM customers. Then, they were shipped to our warehouse in Alabama for distribution to customers.
Hell, I had to cause one of these things myself once. My playing cards are printed on a particular non-standard thickness of plastic stock (the next thicker stock is as thick as a credit card, too thick to shuffle comfortably, but the next thinner one flops around like a dead fish in your hands). So I had to custom-order a medium thickness of stock. But the minimum order size for that is way too big for me to afford having that many cards around, so I couldn't have the printer order the plastic themselves. So I had to custom order the plastic from a place in Texas and ship it to Oklahoma. Then I had to ship just the portion to be printed on from Oklahoma to Michigan, where my printer is. Then they shipped the finished product back to Oklahoma.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:36:40 PM
Quote from: catch22 on April 28, 2022, 12:54:49 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2022, 07:57:44 PMOne wonders how much purported economic activity in this country is that sort of thing. Things being produced, shipped somewhere, shipped back, destroyed, all without ever being used for their intended purpose. Trees killed, fuel burned, simply because not doing so negatively affects some line item on a report somewhere.
Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with that one. T-shirts declaring, say, the Cincinnati Bengals the winners of Super Bowl LVI that will never see a sales floor, but they had to be produced just in case the Bengals won, so they could be sold immediately after the game ended. Amazon's policy of not accepting returns of items where it's not cost-effective and simply giving the item to the customer for free (although, at least in that situation, I get to choose where it ends up).
And it's even worse on a global scale. Stories are legion of, say, fish being caught in Country X, shipped to Country Y halfway around the world to be processed, and then shipped back to Country X to be sold, all because that's cheaper than processing the fish in Country X.
I used to work in the IT department of a global auto parts manufacturer, which did stuff like this all the time.
An example: One of our subsidiaries made wiper blades. The extruded rubber blades and and the various metal and plastic pieces for the wiper arms were made in a plant in Indiana. Then, the parts were sent to a warehouse in Texas. From there, the pieces were separated into smaller lots and sent to our plant in Mexico, where they were assembled. Then, the parts got sent back to the Texas location, sat around for a while and then shipped back to Indiana where they were packaged for retail and OEM customers. Then, they were shipped to our warehouse in Alabama for distribution to customers.
Hell, I had to cause one of these things myself once. My playing cards are printed on a particular non-standard thickness of plastic stock (the next thicker stock is as thick as a credit card, too thick to shuffle comfortably, but the next thinner one flops around like a dead fish in your hands). So I had to custom-order a medium thickness of stock. But the minimum order size for that is way too big for me to afford having that many cards around, so I couldn't have the printer order the plastic themselves. So I had to custom order the plastic from a place in Texas and ship it to Oklahoma. Then I had to ship just the portion to be printed on from Oklahoma to Michigan, where my printer is. Then they shipped the finished product back to Oklahoma.
How about overnighting a 20 lb piece of electronics from NY to CA and back to replace a single transistor at the vendor facility? That is because $200k instrument is not working, and there is no spare available. When stakes are high, shipping things all over the place is fairly common and understandable.
I have issues with that if the value of the product and work involved is fairly trivial, and work is not very specialized. Overnight air shipping of oysters to processing facility and back because those who can afford oysters don't want to do processing for the price they are willing to pay for the product is a whole different story.
Quote from: kalvado on April 28, 2022, 05:36:42 PM
How about overnighting a 20 lb piece of electronics from NY to CA and back to replace a single transistor at the vendor facility? That is because $200k instrument is not working, and there is no spare available. When stakes are high, shipping things all over the place is fairly common and understandable.
(https://cdn.drivingline.com//media/articleimages/2015/04/4japan.jpg?quality=70&mode=pad©metadata=true&w=400)
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2022, 07:25:29 PM
Also, order minimums are a thing. If I need $10 worth of items and pickup/delivery has a $25 order minimum, I don't want to have to add $15 worth of stuff I don't really need just to satisfy the order minimum. (Yeah, I could just do something like pad the order out with something that will keep that I'll use eventually, like cans of tuna, but most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday.)
We do grocery pickup in Erwin and we havent had any problems. $35 is recommended now, albeit you have to pay a $5.99 below minimum fee. After all, we had some items that had to be shipped, for example, my Equate body wash (dove knockoff) had to be shipped via FedEx to the house.
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
Quote from: GCrites80s on April 28, 2022, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: kalvado on April 28, 2022, 05:36:42 PM
How about overnighting a 20 lb piece of electronics from NY to CA and back to replace a single transistor at the vendor facility? That is because $200k instrument is not working, and there is no spare available. When stakes are high, shipping things all over the place is fairly common and understandable.
(https://cdn.drivingline.com//media/articleimages/2015/04/4japan.jpg?quality=70&mode=pad©metadata=true&w=400)
And packages don't usually get there until 2pm in the afternoon, like my smartwatch thats supposed to come today. :paranoid: :banghead:
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have
$6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is
literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
I've been doing the Walmart pickup thing recently. It saves a lot of time. Order online, you can see what the store has in stock, it saves you from wandering all over the store only to find the one item your wife wanted that's on the other side of the store from everything else you need is out of stock, and you get in, pick up your items and get out.
I recently got dinged for a $5.99 minimum order fee for pickup that I'd never had before. If I had known I was going to be charged that, I would have ordered additional items to bring my total over $35. I complained online and the fee was waived. Apparently the fee is supposed to be charged only for delivery, but for some strange reason my pickup order was charged.
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35. In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?
Quote from: vdeane on April 29, 2022, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35. In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?
I'm pretty sure "If I don't have $35 to spend" means exactly what it says–especially considering
he had said ten days earlier (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31375.msg2729243#msg2729243), "most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday".
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 12:04:21 PMI've been doing the Walmart pickup thing recently. It saves a lot of time. Order online, you can see what the store has in stock, it saves you from wandering all over the store only to find the one item your wife wanted that's on the other side of the store from everything else you need is out of stock, and you get in, pick up your items and get out.
It works about as well as anything else related to Walmart works. It was disastrous the first time I used it - I got an alert that it was ready, I went to the store to pick it up, and the employees were caught completely off guard - naturally, there was no order waiting for me.
Target has order pickup down to an exact science. Best Buy does as well, although if it's something I don't need immediately and it meets the order minimum, I'll just do the free same/next-day shipping.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
I've been doing the Walmart pickup thing recently. It saves a lot of time. Order online, you can see what the store has in stock, it saves you from wandering all over the store only to find the one item your wife wanted that's on the other side of the store from everything else you need is out of stock, and you get in, pick up your items and get out.
I recently got dinged for a $5.99 minimum order fee for pickup that I'd never had before. If I had known I was going to be charged that, I would have ordered additional items to bring my total over $35. I complained online and the fee was waived. Apparently the fee is supposed to be charged only for delivery, but for some strange reason my pickup order was charged.
Its supposed to be waived for Walmart Plus users, not for regular users. :pan:
Just got this message: :colorful:
Quote
Dear redacted,
We love discovering new ways to make Walmart+ even more valuable for members, and we're really proud of how the program has evolved over the last year. We recently expanded our fuel benefit to save you up to 10 cents per gallon at more than 14,000 stations nationwide and added six months of Spotify Premium to the growing list of membership perks. This is just the beginning for Walmart+.
As part of that evolution, we've taken time to re-evaluate our existing offerings. As a result, we will be discontinuing the Rx for less program as a Walmart+ benefit effective May 31. At that time, we'll be updating our Terms of Use solely to reflect this change. If you are actively using Rx for less, expect a follow-up email today with more information on next steps.
Walmart remains fully committed to offering health and wellness benefits to meet our customers' needs. We have a history of launching products and programs that have transformed the industry and created significant healthcare savings for our customers, including revolutionizing the healthcare industry 15 years ago when we launched the $4 generic prescription program, and, more recently, ReliOn™ analog insulin. These programs resulted in significant savings for customers and helped lower the cost of healthcare overall, while demonstrating Walmart's commitment to offering affordable, accessible healthcare. Customers will continue to benefit from these programs at Walmart pharmacies.
All other Walmart+ member benefits are not changing. You still have access to free delivery from stores, fuel discounts, free shipping with no minimum, Scan & Go and more. By continuing to use your Walmart+ benefits after May 31, or by renewing your membership after this date, you are agreeing to the updated Terms of Use, which will be available here as of June 1.
Thank you for being a valued Walmart+ member. To adjust your membership settings, visit your account. For questions, visit the Help Center.
No more free meds for W+ users! :spin:
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 29, 2022, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35. In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?
I'm pretty sure "If I don't have $35 to spend" means exactly what it says–especially considering he had said ten days earlier (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31375.msg2729243#msg2729243), "most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday".
You're both right, honestly. My financial position hasn't been great since I left my last job–which I'm not complaining about, mind you, I still feel like it was the best decision to make–so if I have $25 to spend and need $15 worth of groceries, spending $21 on that $15 worth of groceries would be, in my view, a horrible financial decision. At the same time, even if I had $1000 to spend and only need $15 worth of groceries (and thus could afford the $6 fee), I would still rather save myself the $6 by going inside and picking the items myself–if I have $15 in my cart I can probably self-check or use an express lane anyway so it's not even going to be that much of a time saver.
Or to look at it through a sheer mathematical model–assuming I value my time at $15/hour, I would need to spend 24 minutes inside the store for the $6 fee to start making some degree of financial sense. (This is before you account for the fact that pickup takes a nonzero amount of time to accomplish too, so what you're really looking at is the difference between "time going in would cost you" and "time pickup takes".) And I'm pretty confident in my ability to buy less than $35 worth of groceries in 24 minutes, especially since I have the freedom to go to the store at 3 am if I wish.
I prefer shopping for myself. If the store is out of what I really wanted, I want to figure out what to do instead, not trust that someone is going to make the same choice I would.
Quote from: kkt on April 29, 2022, 08:59:19 PM
I prefer shopping for myself. If the store is out of what I really wanted, I want to figure out what to do instead, not trust that someone is going to make the same choice I would.
I started to do that, but now back to OGP. :ded:
The Walmart Express stores failed.
Someday, Walmart may go the way of K-Mart or Target, but not today.
Quote from: US71 on April 30, 2022, 02:58:45 PM
The Walmart Express stores failed.
Karen Whiner: "The Walmart Stores are too big!"
Also Karen Whiner: "The Walmart Express Stores don't have everything I need. I'm just going to the regular Walmart".
Quote from: US71 on April 30, 2022, 02:58:45 PM
The Walmart Express stores failed.
Someday, Walmart may go the way of K-Mart or Target, but not today.
Wait, Target has gone the same way as K-Mart?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 30, 2022, 03:28:28 PM
Quote from: US71 on April 30, 2022, 02:58:45 PM
The Walmart Express stores failed.
Karen Whiner: "The Walmart Stores are too big!"
Also Karen Whiner: "The Walmart Express Stores don't have everything I need. I'm just going to the regular Walmart".
I think it was more that the Walmart Express stores were located in areas that don't like Walmart as much.
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:39:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 29, 2022, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35. In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?
I'm pretty sure "If I don't have $35 to spend" means exactly what it says–especially considering he had said ten days earlier (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31375.msg2729243#msg2729243), "most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday".
You're both right, honestly. My financial position hasn't been great since I left my last job–which I'm not complaining about, mind you, I still feel like it was the best decision to make–so if I have $25 to spend and need $15 worth of groceries, spending $21 on that $15 worth of groceries would be, in my view, a horrible financial decision. At the same time, even if I had $1000 to spend and only need $15 worth of groceries (and thus could afford the $6 fee), I would still rather save myself the $6 by going inside and picking the items myself–if I have $15 in my cart I can probably self-check or use an express lane anyway so it's not even going to be that much of a time saver.
Or to look at it through a sheer mathematical model–assuming I value my time at $15/hour, I would need to spend 24 minutes inside the store for the $6 fee to start making some degree of financial sense. (This is before you account for the fact that pickup takes a nonzero amount of time to accomplish too, so what you're really looking at is the difference between "time going in would cost you" and "time pickup takes".) And I'm pretty confident in my ability to buy less than $35 worth of groceries in 24 minutes, especially since I have the freedom to go to the store at 3 am if I wish.
I have started going back fully to OGP starting May 1, after a full blown argument with :pan: my parents about going to the store after I did something wrong. I was on my phone doing my Phone Link. Moreover, this caused me to not go back to Food Lion and go to OGP instead. :colorful:
Given the circumstances, I am now not allowed by my parents to shop at Food Lion with them, albeit going to Walmart OGP instead. :banghead:
None of this is relevant to me since my parents don't really care where I shop or what I do with my money.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:39:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 29, 2022, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:42:33 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:31:11 PM
If I don't have $35 to spend to satisfy an order minimum, I sure as hell don't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
You can still buy stuff on Walmart but if its under $35, you have to pay an additional $5.99 for the below minimum fee.
If he doesn't have $35 to satisfy an order minimum, then he sure as heck doesn't have $6 to spend to get literally nothing out of it.
Yeah, that's his point. What he would get in exchange for that $5.99 is literally nothing. It's just an added fee. A person who is in the financial position to not afford a $35 online order generally isn't in the financial position to pay $6 service fees.
I think he was saying he didn't have $35 worth of things to buy, not that he couldn't spend $35. In any case, who wants to spend $6 for nothing?
I'm pretty sure "If I don't have $35 to spend" means exactly what it says–especially considering he had said ten days earlier (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31375.msg2729243#msg2729243), "most of the time the whole reason I'm under the order minimum is because I'm trying to get a few items to stretch things out until payday".
You're both right, honestly. My financial position hasn't been great since I left my last job–which I'm not complaining about, mind you, I still feel like it was the best decision to make–so if I have $25 to spend and need $15 worth of groceries, spending $21 on that $15 worth of groceries would be, in my view, a horrible financial decision. At the same time, even if I had $1000 to spend and only need $15 worth of groceries (and thus could afford the $6 fee), I would still rather save myself the $6 by going inside and picking the items myself–if I have $15 in my cart I can probably self-check or use an express lane anyway so it's not even going to be that much of a time saver.
Or to look at it through a sheer mathematical model–assuming I value my time at $15/hour, I would need to spend 24 minutes inside the store for the $6 fee to start making some degree of financial sense. (This is before you account for the fact that pickup takes a nonzero amount of time to accomplish too, so what you're really looking at is the difference between "time going in would cost you" and "time pickup takes".) And I'm pretty confident in my ability to buy less than $35 worth of groceries in 24 minutes, especially since I have the freedom to go to the store at 3 am if I wish.
I have started going back fully to OGP starting May 1, after a full blown argument with :pan: my parents about going to the store after I did something wrong. I was on my phone doing my Phone Link. Moreover, this caused me to not go back to Food Lion and go to OGP instead. :colorful:
Given the circumstances, I am now not allowed by my parents to shop at Food Lion with them, albeit going to Walmart OGP instead. :banghead:
None of this is relevant to me since my parents don't really care where I shop or what I do with my money.
removed per user consensus -bm
The shuttered Factoria/Bellevue Walmart. Meanwhile the same mall's Target is still going and Amazon just opened a new grocery store next door.
(https://i.imgur.com/wpb8kD3.jpeg)
This leaves Seattle proper with no full-scale Walmarts within a 10-mile radius, as the next closest ones are in Renton and Lynnwood.
Quote from: kkt on April 29, 2022, 08:59:19 PM
I prefer shopping for myself. If the store is out of what I really wanted, I want to figure out what to do instead, not trust that someone is going to make the same choice I would.
This, this, a thousand times
this.
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:25:23 PM
removed per user consensus -bm
Hope everything came out OK.
Walmart has done away with its "site to store" sales program. You used to be able to order something on their Web site and have it delivered to a store, free of charge usually within two days. This came in handy if your local Walmart didn't carry an item, but other locations did, or it was an online-only item. I used that service fairly often.
Looking online today at some things, those items said "two-day shipping" and "shipped to Jackson, 41339 by Thursday, May 5." (Jackson, of course, is where my office is and the location of the nearest Walmart, where I frequently shop and have selected as "my store" in my account.) But come checkout time, no "site to store" shipping option was available, and shipping to any address -- my home address, or my office in Jackson -- said "delivery by Tuesday, May 10."
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 04:20:52 PM
Walmart has done away with its "site to store" sales program. You used to be able to order something on their Web site and have it delivered to a store, free of charge usually within two days. This came in handy if your local Walmart didn't carry an item, but other locations did, or it was an online-only item. I used that service fairly often.
Looking online today at some things, those items said "two-day shipping" and "shipped to Jackson, 41339 by Thursday, May 5." (Jackson, of course, is where my office is and the location of the nearest Walmart, where I frequently shop and have selected as "my store" in my account.) But come checkout time, no "site to store" shipping option was available, and shipping to any address -- my home address, or my office in Jackson -- said "delivery by Tuesday, May 10."
Do they have any of the pickup-only locations near you?
Once upon a time everyone thought that Sears was going to be around long after the current era. Look what happened to them? Who would think that Kmart would ever be buying out Sears back then? Heck I still wonder how a company who filed for Bankruptcy was able to pull that feat off?
Lampert must of convinced himself that he was JR Ewing and had a sister in law who dreamed about him for an entire year.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/journalnow.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/03/9039086c-8ac8-51b5-b950-b4004d38b9d9/5e24db77c7a0e.image.jpg?crop=655%2C655%2C206%2C603&resize=1200%2C1200&order=crop%2Cresize)
Vandalizing Walmart is like Vandalizing Wikipedia!
https://journalnow.com/news/local/walmart-store-in-winston-salem-experiences-graffiti-damage-in-aisle/article_923969f4-bbb4-5a51-9757-317a2c8c59d4.html (https://journalnow.com/news/local/walmart-store-in-winston-salem-experiences-graffiti-damage-in-aisle/article_923969f4-bbb4-5a51-9757-317a2c8c59d4.html)
WARNING! Site is behind paywall. Consider paying before you read.
And that my friend is how Walmart is failing big time.
Letting people spray paint graffiti in colorful sections like the hardware section.
Walmart will boot you out like its no tomorrow if you do that! :-D
EDITED to reflect new rules. BM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
Once upon a time everyone thought that Sears was going to be around long after the current era. Look what happened to them? Who would think that Kmart would ever be buying out Sears back then? Heck I still wonder how a company who filed for Bankruptcy was able to pull that feat off?
Lampert must of convinced himself that he was JR Ewing and had a sister in law who dreamed about him for an entire year.
Serious mismanagement - with best intentions, evil intentions, or just trying to pull whatever KPI is seen as best at that point and achieve short term goals - can quickly ruin any company.
Things may be a bit better at Walmart as the family retains 50+% of stock and may be looking more at long term perspectives, though.
Quote from: kalvado on May 04, 2022, 11:29:10 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
Once upon a time everyone thought that Sears was going to be around long after the current era. Look what happened to them? Who would think that Kmart would ever be buying out Sears back then? Heck I still wonder how a company who filed for Bankruptcy was able to pull that feat off?
Lampert must of convinced himself that he was JR Ewing and had a sister in law who dreamed about him for an entire year.
Serious mismanagement - with best intentions, evil intentions, or just trying to pull whatever KPI is seen as best at that point and achieve short term goals - can quickly ruin any company.
Things may be a bit better at Walmart as the family retains 50+% of stock and may be looking more at long term perspectives, though.
The irony here is that I learned about KPI in class a couple months ago and Walmart needs to learn CRM better than Target or Chick Fil A, cause they are getting worse everyday.
The funny thing is, my father and I was talking about if Colonel Sanders or Sam Walton or Ray Kroc were still around, they would have these places shut down immediately. :D
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
Who would think that Kmart would ever be buying out Sears back then? Heck I still wonder how a company who filed for Bankruptcy was able to pull that feat off?
Filed for bankruptcy more than once, if I remember correctly.
And I do remember when they filed for bankruptcy in the mid 00s, because I worked in the returns warehouse of a publishing company that sold product to Kmart's distributor at the time. There was disagreement between two co-authors of a book series about whether they should get commission on the sales of the product included in all those pallets of returns (because the publishing house had indeed sold it) or should not get commission based on it (because the company that bought it could no longer be expected to get it into the hands of an actual customer).
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 11:28:43 AM
And that my friend is how Walmart is failing big time.
Letting people spray paint graffiti in colorful sections like the hardware section.
Walmart will boot you out like its no tomorrow if you do that!
If they "will boot you out like its no tomorrow if you do that", then they aren't exactly "letting people" do it, are they?
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 11:31:40 AM
Quote from: kalvado on May 04, 2022, 11:29:10 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
Once upon a time everyone thought that Sears was going to be around long after the current era. Look what happened to them? Who would think that Kmart would ever be buying out Sears back then? Heck I still wonder how a company who filed for Bankruptcy was able to pull that feat off?
Lampert must of convinced himself that he was JR Ewing and had a sister in law who dreamed about him for an entire year.
Serious mismanagement - with best intentions, evil intentions, or just trying to pull whatever KPI is seen as best at that point and achieve short term goals - can quickly ruin any company.
Things may be a bit better at Walmart as the family retains 50+% of stock and may be looking more at long term perspectives, though.
The irony here is that I learned about KPI in class a couple months ago and Walmart needs to learn CRM better than Target or Chick Fil A, cause they are getting worse everyday.
The funny thing is, my father and I was talking about if Colonel Sanders or Sam Walton or Ray Kroc were still around, they would have these places shut down immediately. :D
I know Walt Disney wouldn’t approve of what the Reedy Creek Improvement District is become if he were around. I don’t think he would allow Eisner to be CEO when he was either.
Please, these founders wouldn't care if the profits were continuously rolling in, unless they were on some seriously strong medications while in their death beds.
Don't put words their mouths because you want to deflect the acceptance of an ever-changing world that's given you all the invitations to join.
Has anyone else's Walmarts remodeled to eliminate all but 2 manned checkouts? Everything here is self checkout with 2 manned checkouts that aren't always open.
The Neighborhood Market hasn't does this (yet)
Quote from: Bruce on May 01, 2022, 02:47:51 AM
The shuttered Factoria/Bellevue Walmart. Meanwhile the same mall's Target is still going and Amazon just opened a new grocery store next door.
(https://i.imgur.com/wpb8kD3.jpeg)
This leaves Seattle proper with no full-scale Walmarts within a 10-mile radius, as the next closest ones are in Renton and Lynnwood.
Last I checked, the Factoria Walmart was not a full-scale Walmart, as it had no grocery section (basically the opposite of the Neighborhood Market Walmart in Bellevue). So I believe the Renton Walmart had been the closest full-scale Walmart for a while now.
Quote from: US71 on May 04, 2022, 04:29:20 PM
Has anyone else's Walmarts remodeled to eliminate all but 2 manned checkouts? Everything here is self checkout with 2 manned checkouts that aren't always open.
The Neighborhood Market hasn't does this (yet)
Ours has. Now renovating to include only self checkouts
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 06:03:24 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 04, 2022, 04:29:20 PM
Has anyone else's Walmarts remodeled to eliminate all but 2 manned checkouts? Everything here is self checkout with 2 manned checkouts that aren't always open.
The Neighborhood Market hasn't does this (yet)
Ours has. Now renovating to include only self checkouts
They will likely have 1 or 2 "regular" checkouts, but mostly self checkouts, If I shop there, I deliberately choose a manned checkout.
Quote from: US71 on May 04, 2022, 04:29:20 PM
Has anyone else's Walmarts remodeled to eliminate all but 2 manned checkouts? Everything here is self checkout with 2 manned checkouts that aren't always open.
The Neighborhood Market hasn't does this (yet)
I realize it's an anomaly, because it's one of the old-style Walmarts that isn't a Supercenter, but the one in Jackson, Ky., has no self-checkouts.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 05, 2022, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 04, 2022, 04:29:20 PM
Has anyone else's Walmarts remodeled to eliminate all but 2 manned checkouts? Everything here is self checkout with 2 manned checkouts that aren't always open.
The Neighborhood Market hasn't does this (yet)
I realize it's an anomaly, because it's one of the old-style Walmarts that isn't a Supercenter, but the one in Jackson, Ky., has no self-checkouts.
All the older style stores are gone in this area. Waldron closed and never buitl a super store.
I know this isn't a general self checkout thread, but I though I should share this news in here: Value Village (aka Savers), a thrift store chain, has started installing self-checkouts at stores.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bi42adv.jpeg)
Quote from: Bruce on May 11, 2022, 11:23:12 PM
I know this isn't a general self checkout thread, but I though I should share this news in here: Value Village (aka Savers), a thrift store chain, has started installing self-checkouts at stores.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bi42adv.jpeg)
[/quote
Our local Savers has done that, too.