Folks, how about a thread for North Carolina's longest interstate? In the Triangle area we have two major widening/reconstruction projects, one from I-440 to NC 42 including the giant interchange with Toll 540 and Future I-42 and another from I-85 to US 15/501. Reconstruction of the interchange with I-440/US 1/US 64 is probably coming later in the decade. Farther west the I-77 interchange does have its own thread. Scattered across the state are bridge replacement, interchange improvement, and repaving projects. Posts on these projects are hard to keep up with in the main North Carolina thread. We have good coverage of construction on the state's new interstates I-42, I-87, I-587, I-73/74, and even I-685. I'd like to see similar concentrated attention to the state's backbone interstate.
Yes! I'd like to see updates regarding the Pigeon River bridge reconstruction going on between the Fines Creek and Maggie Valley exits out in the Smokies. It seems like one direction of the other will have massive delays at any given time. If you're going westbound on I-40 through Asheville you will see electronic signs estimating the travel times so you can decide whether to stay on 40 or divert to US 25/70. But if you're coming up I-26 westbound from Hendersonville or point further southeast, you don't get those travel time signs. Lately I've just been taking US 25/70 from Weaverville to Newport, TN anyway, and it's mostly a pleasant drive. Only real slowdowns are in Hot Springs and Newport, but they don't seem nearly as serious as the slowdowns leading up to the construction zone lane drops.
I'm a regular for exits 71 to I-77, can keep you up to date
I-40 is being widened to 6 lanes from the Durham Freeway ? to the merge with I-85. It's a fairly long construction zone.
One or two interchanges are being rebuilt near RDU on I-40.
The 1990's rebuilding of I-40/I-85 duplex took an agonizing 8-9 years. It has held up well, and was one of my favorite stretches until I-85 was widened from Lexington to North Charlotte which is beautiful, wide, concrete-paved and more generously proportioned than the 85/40 duplex through Burlington.
The I-85/I-40 duplex between Greensboro and Durham now feels cramped and too crowned (pavement) comparated to I-85 North of Charlotte.
South of Greensboro, which was once the widest and best section of I-85, is now the crummiest, with deteriorating pavement and only 3 lanes wide. The many bypasses around Greensboro are not included in this though, and they are new and nice.
Quote from: architect77 on February 27, 2023, 05:11:40 PM
I-40 is being widened to 6 lanes from the Durham Freeway ? to the merge with I-85. It's a fairly long construction zone.
The project starts at US-15/US-501 near Chapel Hill where I-40 currently reduces from 6 lanes to 4 lanes. The project will widen that "gap" between I-85 and US-15/US-501 to 6 lanes.
Quote
South of Greensboro, which was once the widest and best section of I-85, is now the crummiest, with deteriorating pavement and only 3 lanes wide. The many bypasses around Greensboro are not included in this though, and they are new and nice.
I drove this segment of I-85 recently driving between Greensboro and Charlotte, and the segment seemed to handle fine traffic wise. Traffic was easily flowing over 80 mph and was relatively smooth. A significant portion was recently resurfaced as well.
Due to recent widening between Lexington and Concord, I-85 drops from 8 lanes to 6 lanes heading north, but it's at a major interstate split with I-285 and traffic heading towards Winston-Salem, so it seems to handle well.
After dealing with notorious congestion on parts of I-64 between Williamsburg and Richmond, I-81 in general, I-95 south of DC, etc. in the past, this portion of I-85 was a perfect design the whole way between Charlotte and Greensboro. In addition, unlike a lot of North Carolina's rural interstates that are reluctant to be posted above 65 mph, especially in the central part of the state, the whole segment between Kannapolis and Greensboro is posted at 70 mph.
If you want to talk about deteriorating, NCDOT could show some love to the US-52 freeway north of Winston-Salem... a lot of the highway north of where I-74 will tie in is a bumpy ride in both lanes for a good 15-20 miles... along with the ancient bridges on that portion and decent traffic volumes, perhaps it's time to modernize that stretch.
Quote from: architect77 on February 27, 2023, 05:11:40 PM
I-40 is being widened to 6 lanes from the Durham Freeway ? to the merge with I-85. It's a fairly long construction zone.
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 27, 2023, 05:39:40 PM
The project starts at US-15/US-501 near Chapel Hill where I-40 currently reduces from 6 lanes to 4 lanes. The project will widen that "gap" between I-85 and US-15/US-501 to 6 lanes.
Construction on I-40 really cranked up this month, starting at The Split just west of Hillsborough. Last week, there were accidents in the "construction zone" that caused major delays on at least 4 different days, plus at least another one today. The phrase "construction zone" is being used loosely, because all of the real construction with lane shifts is west of Exit 263 (New Hope Church Road), whereas many of the accidents have been east of Exit 263 (barrels placed but no tangible work). By the way, everyone around here is enamored with the fluorescent green pop-up lighting towers used for nighttime work.
IMO. After the current constructions are wrapped up on I-40, the next focus, as far as 40 is concerned, should be between Statesville and Hickory. Ultimately, 40 should be 6+ lanes all the way to Canton. Monster undertaking. Western 40, 95 and 42. should be priorities going forward as loop roads are finishing, 85 is done minus small stretches near borders, and toll roads can clean up the rest of what's left in the metros. Something also needs to be done with 40/College Rd in Wilmington. Somehow, they need to get 40 to at least New Centre but Monkey Junction would be ideal. Just don't ask me how. lol.
When I moved here in 2016, exits 104 and 105 were wrapping up. About 3 years ago, exits 100, 103, 107, 116, 118 and 119 were imminent, but have been put on hold. They badly need aux lanes between 105, 104 and 103. The final design for exit 103 is even more out dated and inadequate with the additional expansion on the WPCC campus. I have seen no designs for exits 106, and frankly it should go. 4 lanes work west of exit 100 for now, but 6 lanes from 77 to exit 100 are needed and even 8 lanes from 121 to 132.
Quote from: nerdom on February 27, 2023, 06:29:57 PM
IMO. After the current constructions are wrapped up on I-40, the next focus, as far as 40 is concerned, should be between Statesville and Hickory. Ultimately, 40 should be 6+ lanes all the way to Canton. Monster undertaking. Western 40, 95 and 42. should be priorities going forward as loop roads are finishing, 85 is done minus small stretches near borders, and toll roads can clean up the rest of what's left in the metros. Something also needs to be done with 40/College Rd in Wilmington. Somehow, they need to get 40 to at least New Centre but Monkey Junction would be ideal. Just don't ask me how. lol.
Statesville to Conover opened in 1960, so it is one of the very oldest sections of I-40 in NC. Some of us are old enough to remember the freeway's end at NC 16 in Conover and how welcome the Hickory bypass section was when it finally opened.
West of I-77, there are several feasibility studies and traffic forecasts out there for various projects along I-40. Many were submitted as part of P6.0, but haven't made it into the STIP yet. Funding is another issue (the submitted widening projects in the viewer added up to an estimated $1.6 billion, which are several years out-dated). The 2024-2033 STIP should be approved this spring....
The first section of the Hickory widening (I-5991A) is in the STIP, but has a post-year let date. Same goes for the stretch between Winston and Greensboro, which is split into three sections (I-5981 A, B & C).
I will also echo what was mentioned about some of these sections of I-40 being the oldest in the state. Well beyond due for upgrades....
Haywood County widening TF (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Traffic%20Forecasts/I-6054%20Haywood%20TF/I-6054A%20Haywood%202019%20TF.pdf)
Buncombe/Buncombe County widening TF (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Traffic%20Forecasts/I-6054%20Haywood%20TF/I-6054BC%20Buncombe%20Haywood%202019%20TF.pdf)
Catawba County widening TF (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Traffic%20Forecasts/I-5991%20Catawba%20TF/I-5991%20Catawba%202018%20TF.PDF)
FS-1512A widening from US-321 to I-77 (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/FS-1512A_Feasibility-Study_Report_2017.pdf)
Winston-Greensboro widening TF (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Traffic%20Forecasts/I-5980%20I-5981%20Forsyth%20Guilford%20TF/I-5980%20I-5981%20Guilford%20Forsyth%202019%20TF.pdf)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52716610829_bdae311ca4_c.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52716610829_d62b368059_k.jpg)
Thanks for this. Looks like we have three priorities for widening: Clyde to Black Mountain, Morganton to I-77, and Winston-Salem to Greensboro.
Before NCDots money woes, there had been scheduled public hearings on 6 laning I240 east to NC9.
Saw a good 2 to 3 dozen survey stakes all over exit 119 coming home tonite. Not seeing anything on the NCDot letting pages. Would have figured this interchange would be lower priority.
NCDOT announces some ramp closures at the Clayton exit on I-40. The EB exit will be closed tonight. Over the coming weekend the WB exit and the WB entrance ramps will be closed. This is all in preparation for upcoming lane shifts in the construction project.
At what point does NCDot need to recalculate based on 2050 instead of 2040
I did not know that there was an unnecessary I-40/I-240 concurrency. :-D
Obviously that was just a typo, but I would think NCDOT would have higher priorities out there than a 6-lane I-40 heading east of Asheville. (such as maybe an improved section west to the US 74 split)
NCDOT announces overnight closures related to two bridge removal projects. The Airport Boulevard bridge over I-40 (Exit 284) will be removed over the next two weeks and work leading to replacement of the I-40 WB bridge over Old NC 86 near Hillsborough (Exit 261) will begin. https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/
And on Tuesday NCDOT will hold a public meeting to present its plans to widen I-40 on the south side of Raleigh between Lake Wheeler Road and the I-440/US 1 interchange and to upgrade that interchange, adding two flyover ramps. The announcement has maps.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5701-I-5703-2023-03-02.aspx
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 10, 2023, 06:22:34 PM
NCDOT announces overnight closures related to two bridge removal projects. The Airport Boulevard bridge over I-40 (Exit 284) will be removed over the next two weeks and work leading to replacement of the I-40 WB bridge over Old NC 86 near Hillsborough (Exit 261) will begin. https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/
It's too bad that the NC 86 bridge wasn't built long enough to accommodate extra lanes underneath. That section of 40 dates back to the late 80's I believe.
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 10, 2023, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 10, 2023, 06:22:34 PM
NCDOT announces overnight closures related to two bridge removal projects. The Airport Boulevard bridge over I-40 (Exit 284) will be removed over the next two weeks and work leading to replacement of the I-40 WB bridge over Old NC 86 near Hillsborough (Exit 261) will begin. https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/
It's too bad that the NC 86 bridge wasn't built long enough to accommodate extra lanes underneath. That section of 40 dates back to the late 80's I believe.
The bridge in the post above is the OLD NC 86 bridge pair, which carriers 1-40 over Old NC 86. The current bridge is not wide enough to accommodate the widened I-40. The NC 86 interchange is being rebuilt, but the bridge there is long enough. The west bound exit ramps are being reconfigured.
^ Ok I didn't realize that Exit 261, which is marked as just "Hillsborough" IIRC, is actually for Old NC 86. And a few years ago, I did some cell site work in that area!
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 10, 2023, 06:22:34 PM
NCDOT announces overnight closures related to two bridge removal projects. The Airport Boulevard bridge over I-40 (Exit 284) will be removed over the next two weeks and work leading to replacement of the I-40 WB bridge over Old NC 86 near Hillsborough (Exit 261) will begin. https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 10, 2023, 08:56:04 PM
It's too bad that the NC 86 bridge wasn't built long enough to accommodate extra lanes underneath. That section of 40 dates back to the late 80's I believe.
Quote from: dfilpus on March 11, 2023, 11:27:36 AM
The bridge in the post above is the OLD NC 86 bridge pair, which carriers 1-40 over Old NC 86. The current bridge is not wide enough to accommodate the widened I-40. The NC 86 interchange is being rebuilt, but the bridge there is long enough. The west bound exit ramps are being reconfigured.
But indeed, it looks like the I-40 widening won't fit underneath the existing overpass for NC-86 (Airport Road/Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd). The NC-86 overpass is on a skew, such that the use of standard length steel stringers over the freeway necessitated an extra trestle-column support next to the abutments. There's plenty of room for the I-40 widening beneath New Hope Church Road (formerly New Hope Trace), the next exit up, which has slopebanks on either side.
I haven't seen any discussion about how/when the NC-86 bridge replacement will occur. I'm surprised that it wasn't the first phase of the project, since it will be the longest duration of any major task on the entire project. The whole project phasing (starting at Hillsborough and working [southward] is curious to me, since the major congestion (almost daily now, including weekends) is at Orange/Durham border.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 10, 2023, 08:43:09 PM
And on Tuesday NCDOT will hold a public meeting to present its plans to widen I-40 on the south side of Raleigh between Lake Wheeler Road and the I-440/US 1 interchange and to upgrade that interchange, adding two flyover ramps. The announcement has maps.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5701-I-5703-2023-03-02.aspx
It is kinda messed up that they're still having traffic take a loop ramp to go east on I-440. Should have at least a flyover from I-40 East to I-440 East.
With most of the traffic taking Wade Avenue to get to 440, it probably isn't that important. A flyover from Wade eastbound to 440 eastbound might be useful though.
Quote from: elsmere241 on March 11, 2023, 01:13:29 PM
With most of the traffic taking Wade Avenue to get to 440, it probably isn't that important. A flyover from Wade eastbound to 440 eastbound might be useful though.
Also a flyover from I-40 W to US 1 S/US 64 W. And make it wide, like at least two lanes, or even three. And do it CA-style and make it all out of concrete box beam (which I think is the correct term, or like most of the bridges in the 85/285 Tom Moreland Interchange). This needs to not only function well, but IMO look good too.
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 11, 2023, 03:43:19 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on March 11, 2023, 01:13:29 PM
With most of the traffic taking Wade Avenue to get to 440, it probably isn't that important. A flyover from Wade eastbound to 440 eastbound might be useful though.
Also a flyover from I-40 W to US 1 S/US 64 W. And make it wide, like at least two lanes, or even three. And do it CA-style and make it all out of concrete box beam (which I think is the correct term, or like most of the bridges in the 85/285 Tom Moreland Interchange). This needs to not only function well, but IMO look good too.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/40-440-us-1-interchange/Documents/I-40-I-440-interchange-preferred-alernative-2-map.pdf
The map is confusing because it doesn't show removal of loop ramp B, but it does show a two lane flyover from I-40 W to US 1 S/US 64 W.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 11, 2023, 06:16:55 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 11, 2023, 03:43:19 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on March 11, 2023, 01:13:29 PM
With most of the traffic taking Wade Avenue to get to 440, it probably isn't that important. A flyover from Wade eastbound to 440 eastbound might be useful though.
Also a flyover from I-40 W to US 1 S/US 64 W. And make it wide, like at least two lanes, or even three. And do it CA-style and make it all out of concrete box beam (which I think is the correct term, or like most of the bridges in the 85/285 Tom Moreland Interchange). This needs to not only function well, but IMO look good too.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/40-440-us-1-interchange/Documents/I-40-I-440-interchange-preferred-alernative-2-map.pdf
The map is confusing because it doesn't show removal of loop ramp B, but it does show a two lane flyover from I-40 W to US 1 S/US 64 W.
Ramp B will be used to get from I-40WB to Walnut Street/Crossroads Mall. It will remain in place.
I found it noteworthy that the existing ramp from Crossroads to NB 1 will be removed, as well as the existing NB on-ramp from Walnut St. Both to be replaced by a new ramp starting from a relocated Piney Plains/Dillard intersection.
Jim, any thoughts on why Ramp B will still be accessed from a C/D road coming off the WB ramps to SB 1 and 440? I would have thought it'd be simpler and less confusing to travelers to have that be a direct ramp off the WB 40 mainline, instead of combined with the 1/440 ramps.
Quote from: froggie on March 12, 2023, 07:52:31 PM
I found it noteworthy that the existing ramp from Crossroads to NB 1 will be removed, as well as the existing NB on-ramp from Walnut St. Both to be replaced by a new ramp starting from a relocated Piney Plains/Dillard intersection.
Jim, any thoughts on why Ramp B will still be accessed from a C/D road coming off the WB ramps to SB 1 and 440? I would have thought it'd be simpler and less confusing to travelers to have that be a direct ramp off the WB 40 mainline, instead of combined with the 1/440 ramps.
The infrastructure is already there, and having one exit to US 1 makes it better for I-40. It's a "single decision point" on the main line, with a secondary decision point on the off-ramp, and that is usually better for drivers' safety.
I'm not thrilled by the Piney Plains exit plan, but realize that there aren't many options (especially ones that don't take many buildings like Lowe's.). I was partially responsible for the SB "elongated loop" configurations back in the "˜90s, and I know there will be a lot of pushback, especially from Crossroads. But the weaves are bad now, this plan will make it much better NB.
Quote from: jdunlop on March 13, 2023, 01:13:08 PM
I'm not thrilled by the Piney Plains exit plan, but realize that there aren't many options (especially ones that don't take many buildings like Lowe's.). I was partially responsible for the SB "elongated loop" configurations back in the "˜90s, and I know there will be a lot of pushback, especially from Crossroads. But the weaves are bad now, this plan will make it much better NB.
Braided ramps? That would eliminate the weaving movements entirely and would not require traffic to travel an additional
mile just to get on the freeway.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 13, 2023, 01:29:06 PM
Quote from: jdunlop on March 13, 2023, 01:13:08 PM
I'm not thrilled by the Piney Plains exit plan, but realize that there aren't many options (especially ones that don't take many buildings like Lowe's.). I was partially responsible for the SB "elongated loop" configurations back in the "˜90s, and I know there will be a lot of pushback, especially from Crossroads. But the weaves are bad now, this plan will make it much better NB.
Braided ramps? That would eliminate the weaving movements entirely and would not require traffic to travel an additional mile just to get on the freeway.
NOt sure how that could be built without needing to replace the Walnut St. bridge over US 1. Even then, not sure it'd work. They're able to braid the ramps SB so that EB40 to SB1 can go over the WB40 to SB1 ramp with retaining walls (and you have grade differences that help) but NB I just don't see it. I will ask tomorrow if I'm able to attend, but I remember mentioning that to the traffic analyst working on the project a while back, and his answer was there wasn't enough room.
The needs of the system interchange (I-40/US 1) take precedence over the service interchange (Walnut/Crossroads.) We allow service interchanges that close way too often, and we have problems with weaving at most of them. We should close the service interchanges, but politics comes in way too often.
At the very least, why not braid the proposed new on-ramp with the existing off-ramp? That way, the eastbound off ramp could at least be retained. That would eliminate traffic needing exit the new ramp, travel down Dillard Dr heading due east, just to then turn back north, if they are ultimately bound to Walnut St to the west.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 13, 2023, 03:55:31 PM
At the very least, why not braid the proposed new on-ramp with the existing off-ramp? That way, the eastbound off ramp could at least be retained. That would eliminate traffic needing exit the new ramp, travel down Dillard Dr heading due east, just to then turn back north, if they are ultimately bound to Walnut St to the west.
That would be a significant cost increase for a minor traffic savings. Those braided ramps are not cheap, from a construction and right-of-way standpoint.
I'd like to see the traffic forecast to see what volume of traffic heads west on Walnut. At some point, drivers heading that way would take the Cary Town Blvd exit on 40 rather than drive up/down Walnut.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 10, 2023, 08:43:09 PM
And on Tuesday NCDOT will hold a public meeting to present its plans to widen I-40 on the south side of Raleigh between Lake Wheeler Road and the I-440/US 1 interchange and to upgrade that interchange, adding two flyover ramps. The announcement has maps.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5701-I-5703-2023-03-02.aspx
There will be a 2-week public comment period after the meeting.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-03-13-i-40-440-widening-crossroads-meeting.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-03-13-i-40-440-widening-crossroads-meeting.aspx)
Quote from: elsmere241 on March 11, 2023, 01:13:29 PM
With most of the traffic taking Wade Avenue to get to 440, it probably isn't that important. A flyover from Wade eastbound to 440 eastbound might be useful though.
I have seen plenty of traffic using I-440 East loop ramp from I-40 East every time I drive down to Raleigh, not just Wade Ave.
^ Likely just local traffic from surrounding interchanges on I-40 to the west, but east of Wade Ave.
It's probably not heavy enough to warrant a flyover. Wade Ave indeed would handle most of the through traffic / heavy volumes.
I'm changing the topic, but does NC have any plans to widen I-40 down to I-95? Once the current project between Garner and NC 42 is complete, there will only be about 12 miles left to I-40. Not sure how much traffic exits at NC 42, but if I am correct that it will drop from 8 lanes down to 4 south of there, it seems likely to create a new bottleneck heading south/east.
Quote from: webny99 on March 15, 2023, 11:14:33 AM
I'm changing the topic, but does NC have any plans to widen I-40 down to I-95? Once the current project between Garner and NC 42 is complete, there will only be about 12 miles left to I-40. Not sure how much traffic exits at NC 42, but if I am correct that it will drop from 8 lanes down to 4 south of there, it seems likely to create a new bottleneck heading south/east.
Yes according to the project website, 2 lanes are to be added to each direction from Exit 301 to MM 314. The final design maps, published in January 2022 (though for some reason they do not include the new NC 540 construction), are available at: https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i40-nc42/Pages/final-design-maps.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i40-nc42/Pages/final-design-maps.aspx)
Quote from: webny99 on March 15, 2023, 11:14:33 AM
I'm changing the topic, but does NC have any plans to widen I-40 down to I-95? Once the current project between Garner and NC 42 is complete, there will only be about 12 miles left to I-40. Not sure how much traffic exits at NC 42, but if I am correct that it will drop from 8 lanes down to 4 south of there, it seems likely to create a new bottleneck heading south/east.
IIRC there's a feasibility study (unfunded) to widen from MM 312 to 317 (NC 210) but nothing east of there to I-95. The volume really doesn't call for more than a four-lane cross-section. A project to widen 210 is on the books as well (funded, unless things have changed in the last year.)
Quote from: bob7374 on March 15, 2023, 11:50:02 AM
Yes according to the project website, 2 lanes are to be added to each direction from Exit 301 to MM 314. The final design maps, published in January 2022 (though for some reason they do not include the new NC 540 construction), are available at: https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i40-nc42/Pages/final-design-maps.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i40-nc42/Pages/final-design-maps.aspx)
Interesting. I was not aware that there will be a new interchange added at Cleveland Rd as part of this project too, that's great to see.
Quote from: jdunlop on March 15, 2023, 11:58:27 AM
IIRC there's a feasibility study (unfunded) to widen from MM 312 to 317 (NC 210) but nothing east of there to I-40. The volume really doesn't call for more than a four-lane cross-section. A project to widen 210 is on the books as well (funded, unless things have changed in the last year.)
I would support extending 6-lanes down to NC 210, only because when you have two lanes ending at the same time (plus traffic entering at that interchange) that is almost a guaranteed bottleneck even if the volumes don't otherwise warrant a widening. NC seems to love widening from 4 lanes to 8 lanes, but that does tend to create problems at the transition point.
^ I see the biggest problem with 4 to 8 lanes, at the moment, being I-95 at Fayetteville in either direction. The highway is currently being widened to 8 lanes both north and south of the city, but will remain at 4 lanes on the bypass.
The idea is enough traffic will exit, but given its I-95, there is still a minimum of 6 lanes needed around Fayetteville. There will likely be congestion at these transition points - and the same with 8 to 4 lane drop at I-74 south of Lumberton, and to a lesser extent I-40 north of Fayetteville (because there, traffic will actually somewhat split - but still more on I-95).
Quote from: jdunlop on March 15, 2023, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 15, 2023, 11:14:33 AM
I'm changing the topic, but does NC have any plans to widen I-40 down to I-95? Once the current project between Garner and NC 42 is complete, there will only be about 12 miles left to I-40. Not sure how much traffic exits at NC 42, but if I am correct that it will drop from 8 lanes down to 4 south of there, it seems likely to create a new bottleneck heading south/east.
IIRC there's a feasibility study (unfunded) to widen from MM 312 to 317 (NC 210) but nothing east of there to I-95. The volume really doesn't call for more than a four-lane cross-section. A project to widen 210 is on the books as well (funded, unless things have changed in the last year.)
Between NC-42 and NC-210, I-40 carries around 50,000 AADT. The volumes do remain at around 45,000 AADT down to I-95, only dropping down to 22,000 AADT east/south of I-95.
45,000 AADT is certainly in the ballpark for 6 lane widening in the future, especially in a 15-20 year timeframe. I-95 carries 40,000-45,000 AADT north of I-40, though I'd argue given the long distance / peak season factor of that particular road, at minimum 6 lane widening is still more warranted there than I-40.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 15, 2023, 01:04:58 PM
^ I see the biggest problem with 4 to 8 lanes, at the moment, being I-95 at Fayetteville in either direction. The highway is currently being widened to 8 lanes both north and south of the city, but will remain at 4 lanes on the bypass.
The idea is enough traffic will exit, but given its I-95, there is still a minimum of 6 lanes needed around Fayetteville. There will likely be congestion at these transition points - and the same with 8 to 4 lane drop at I-74 south of Lumberton, and to a lesser extent I-40 north of Fayetteville (because there, traffic will actually somewhat split - but still more on I-95).
I don't see it being too much of an issue on the north side as there is a significant drop-off of about 25k AADT at I-40, but where will the 8 lanes start/end south of Fayetteville? I don't see a logical transition point on either end, especially until I-295 is complete (and I would think most traffic to downtown Fayetteville will still use NC 87, even when I-295 is complete).
I believe the lanes will drop from 8 to 4 at both junctions with US-301 ("inside" I-295).
I-295 should be fully complete by the time both widening projects are complete.
The issues northbound at I-40 will probably be less, but during peak weekends I anticipate it will choke up a little. I-95 needs a sustained 6 lanes through SC-NC-VA during peak times, so dropping from 8 to 4 will cause some slowdowns I'm sure.
Update on the I-40 widening in Orange County. Things are now progressing quickly on the [south] end near Chapel Hill. The [southbound] lanes now have all been shifted, have the Jersey barriers installed and most of the old left shoulder have been removed. The [northbound] lanes have also been shifted, except for a short section under the NC-86 overpass (Exit 266). But there is still no Jersey barrier from the Durham County line to about Exit 263. Actual grading for the new lanes is on both sides [north] of Exit 261.
Talking about Exit 266, the old left shoulder has been removed for the [southbound] lanes beneath the NC-86 overpass so it looks like NCDOT is going to squeeze the additional lanes beneath the existing structure. Both of the steel stringer sections appear to be of identical length, so I am assuming that the extra [northbound] lane will also fit. But something triggered the need to wait on shifting the lanes there. Stay tuned.
^ Speaking of the I-40 widening project in Orange County, I-40 East traffic will be detoured onto I-85 North and I-885 South this weekend.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-18-04-I-40-east-weekend-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-18-04-I-40-east-weekend-closure.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on April 18, 2023, 04:55:58 PM
Speaking of the I-40 widening project in Orange County, I-40 East traffic will be detoured onto I-85 North and I-885 South this weekend.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-18-04-I-40-east-weekend-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-18-04-I-40-east-weekend-closure.aspx)
I wonder if that (I-85 -to- I-885) is a [slight] mistake in the press release. I was under the impression that the official "Alternate I-40" route was utilizing the Durham Freeway (NC-147, which eventually becomes the southern section of I-885). There are so many different "Alternate I-40" routes and signs posted right now that I can't remember them all. One set is posted for the West Durham Bypass (US-15/501), which certainly uses the northern end of the Durham Freeway.
I actually like using the entire I-885 as a bypass, but I still prefer the Durham Freeway just to get a glimpse of the crowd at Durham Bulls games this time of year. I've never seen Durham Bulls traffic cause any problems for the Durham Freeway on game days (and have been bold enough to arrive just a few minutes before game time for sellouts).
I think they are wanting to promote the new I-885 / East End Connector over the Durham Freeway, especially given "Greensboro" is signed on it as opposed to the more direct Durham Freeway portion near Downtown.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vaEsfL2HUGT6u6TB9?g_st=ic
The I-885 / East End Connector also has more lanes and a 65 mph speed limit, and is being promoted as the bypass to NC-147.
Quote from: LM117 on April 18, 2023, 04:55:58 PM
^ Speaking of the I-40 widening project in Orange County, I-40 East traffic will be detoured onto I-85 North and I-885 South this weekend.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-18-04-I-40-east-weekend-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-18-04-I-40-east-weekend-closure.aspx)
https://twitter.com/NCDOT_Triad/status/1648772150629728261 (https://twitter.com/NCDOT_Triad/status/1648772150629728261)
The bridge for Causby Rd over 40 at exit 98 is closing tonight for 6 months of rehab. The bridge with be raised, but the work will keep the existing piers, thus no accommodation for future widening. This section of 40 does not really need to go 6lanes yet.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on February 27, 2023, 10:08:08 PM
Quote from: nerdom on February 27, 2023, 06:29:57 PM
IMO. After the current constructions are wrapped up on I-40, the next focus, as far as 40 is concerned, should be between Statesville and Hickory. Ultimately, 40 should be 6+ lanes all the way to Canton. Monster undertaking. Western 40, 95 and 42. should be priorities going forward as loop roads are finishing, 85 is done minus small stretches near borders, and toll roads can clean up the rest of what's left in the metros. Something also needs to be done with 40/College Rd in Wilmington. Somehow, they need to get 40 to at least New Centre but Monkey Junction would be ideal. Just don't ask me how. lol.
Statesville to Conover opened in 1960, so it is one of the very oldest sections of I-40 in NC. Some of us are old enough to remember the freeway's end at NC 16 in Conover and how welcome the Hickory bypass section was when it finally opened.
I remember that. We traveled through there frequently, going from Greensboro to Knoxville. It was December 1976 when I think was the last time we had to go through Conover.
I also remember, speaking of broken segments, the I-40 segment around Black Mountain/Swannanoa opening up. Today, having to go US 70 through Black Mountain would be a nightmare.
I am aware of projects for the rebuild of Exit 118 and an exit near Claremont, along with a Catawba River Bridge replacement still slowly moving up the list. The replaced bridges at the 2 interchanges are being built for 6 lanes on 40, but these projects seem more driven by the bridge being shot than capacity deficiencies.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 23, 2023, 10:59:39 PM
I am aware of projects for the rebuild of Exit 118 and an exit near Claremont, along with a Catawba River Bridge replacement still slowly moving up the list. The replaced bridges at the 2 interchanges are being built for 6 lanes on 40, but these projects seem more driven by the bridge being shot than capacity deficiencies.
A new exit on I-40 near Claremont?
Quote from: Strider on April 24, 2023, 01:39:21 AM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 23, 2023, 10:59:39 PM
I am aware of projects for the rebuild of Exit 118 and an exit near Claremont, along with a Catawba River Bridge replacement still slowly moving up the list. The replaced bridges at the 2 interchanges are being built for 6 lanes on 40, but these projects seem more driven by the bridge being shot than capacity deficiencies.
A new exit on I-40 near Claremont?
No, rebuild of existing, I wanted to say Rock Barn Rd, but could not find for sure
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 24, 2023, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: Strider on April 24, 2023, 01:39:21 AM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 23, 2023, 10:59:39 PM
I am aware of projects for the rebuild of Exit 118 and an exit near Claremont, along with a Catawba River Bridge replacement still slowly moving up the list. The replaced bridges at the 2 interchanges are being built for 6 lanes on 40, but these projects seem more driven by the bridge being shot than capacity deficiencies.
A new exit on I-40 near Claremont?
No, rebuild of existing, I wanted to say Rock Barn Rd, but could not find for sure
You're correct. It is the bridge replacement for Rock Barn Rd. (Exit 133) over I-40. Found the link below.
https://ncdot.publicinput.com/W7066
Good news regarding the I-40 widening project between southeast Raleigh and Clayton. All new lanes between I-440 and US-70 (Clayton Bypass) are now open.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-04-26-i-40-new-lanes-garner-clayton-open.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-04-26-i-40-new-lanes-garner-clayton-open.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on April 26, 2023, 10:16:05 AM
Good news regarding the I-40 widening project between southeast Raleigh and Clayton. All new lanes between I-440 and US-70 (Clayton Bypass) are now open.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-04-26-i-40-new-lanes-garner-clayton-open.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-04-26-i-40-new-lanes-garner-clayton-open.aspx)
I drove this last night. Overall nice and wide. One overhead gantry in each direction has crooked mounted signs which I'm going to email them about.
Otherwise, they have installed reflectors along the lane lines, however the roadway Eastbound leaving Raleigh just scratched off the temporary lane lines during construction. It looks horrible. Will they leave it like this or will a final asphalt layer be added (which will require the reflectors to be removed and reinstalled0?
NCDOT has opened all lanes of I-40 through the Pigeon River Gorge, after a months-long period of one lane in each direction supporting bridge replacements. Best news: this work is ahead of schedule.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 19, 2023, 07:28:08 PM
NCDOT has opened all lanes of I-40 through the Pigeon River Gorge, after a months-long period of one lane in each direction supporting bridge replacements. Best news: this work is ahead of schedule.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-05-19-all-lanes-open-i-40-pigeon-river-gorge.aspx
Quote from: Strider on April 25, 2023, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 24, 2023, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: Strider on April 24, 2023, 01:39:21 AM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 23, 2023, 10:59:39 PM
I am aware of projects for the rebuild of Exit 118 and an exit near Claremont, along with a Catawba River Bridge replacement still slowly moving up the list. The replaced bridges at the 2 interchanges are being built for 6 lanes on 40, but these projects seem more driven by the bridge being shot than capacity deficiencies.
A new exit on I-40 near Claremont?
No, rebuild of existing, I wanted to say Rock Barn Rd, but could not find for sure
You're correct. It is the bridge replacement for Rock Barn Rd. (Exit 133) over I-40. Found the link below.
https://ncdot.publicinput.com/W7066
Yeah, until 1977 I-40 used to end there. My parents and I used to ride to Knoxville and had to work our way through Conover. That's why for a very long time, Hickory was used as a control city for I-40 West from I-77 in Statesville, where it's now Asheville.
Interesting add note. Similar to I-40's fate, I-77 used to end in Elkin at what I believe was exit 83, so I-40's signage for I-77 used Elkin instead of Wytheville which is what it is now.
That old bridge on Rock Barn sure did need a tune up. I think it's been the same design since 1976.
Looking at old maps, I never could understand why the original section of 40 from Conover to Statesville was not extended initially west to the old US 70, Highland Avenue path.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on May 20, 2023, 08:03:05 PM
Looking at old maps, I never could understand why the original section of 40 from Conover to Statesville was not extended initially west to the old US 70, Highland Avenue path.
$$$. The road was built in the late 1950s when North Carolina didn't have anything like the resources it has now.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 19, 2023, 07:29:11 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 19, 2023, 07:28:08 PM
NCDOT has opened all lanes of I-40 through the Pigeon River Gorge, after a months-long period of one lane in each direction supporting bridge replacements. Best news: this work is ahead of schedule.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-05-19-all-lanes-open-i-40-pigeon-river-gorge.aspx
Thank goodness! The bridge desperately needed rebuilding, but this was an inconvenience, depending on the time of day. They did post travel time portable VMS's along westbound 40 in and east of Asheville, but they didn't help when you were approaching from I-26. I rediscovered the US 25/70 corridor during this time, which certainly wasn't the worst detour in the world.
Quote from: wriddle082 on May 21, 2023, 08:50:57 AM
I rediscovered the US 25/70 corridor during this time, which certainly wasn't the worst detour in the world.
I've used the US 25/70 corridor as a detour multiple times. It is a godsend, and it seems that most drivers aren't aware of its effectiveness as a detour for I-40 through the gorge. GPS will show looong backups on 40, but 25/70 will still be a calm and easy drive.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 20, 2023, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on May 20, 2023, 08:03:05 PM
Looking at old maps, I never could understand why the original section of 40 from Conover to Statesville was not extended initially west to the old US 70, Highland Avenue path.
$$$. The road was built in the late 1950s when North Carolina didn't have anything like the resources it has now.
But, at the dawn of the automobile era, North Carolina, with the new moniker "The Good Roads State", had the most miles of paved road of any state.
The interstates were built in small sections in all states. I-40 East ended at Raleigh's beltline when I was in college in 1990.
I-40 east of Greensboro was not apart of the original interstate system, it was added in 1968 and not even finalized alignment south of Raleigh (either to Morehead City or Wilmington) until the late 70s / early 80s.
Construction on Raleigh to Wilmington was completed in the late 80s / early 90s.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 22, 2023, 01:09:55 AM
I-40 east of Greensboro was not apart of the original interstate system, it was added in 1968 and not even finalized alignment south of Raleigh (either to Morehead City or Wilmington) until the late 70s / early 80s.
Construction on Raleigh to Wilmington was completed in the late 80s / early 90s.
IIRC, wasn't part of the yet-to-be-opened 40 used in the movie 1986 Maximum Overdrive?
NCDOT has awarded a contract for rehabilitation of I-40 between the I-26 and US 25 interchanges south of Asheville. This section includes the bridges over the French Broad River. Lane closures are to be "mostly" at night.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-02-comprehensive-contract-i-40-buncombe.aspx
Quote from: wdcrft63 on June 02, 2023, 05:44:54 PM
NCDOT has awarded a contract for rehabilitation of I-40 between the I-26 and US 25 interchanges south of Asheville. This section includes the bridges over the French Broad River. Lane closures are to be "mostly" at night.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-02-comprehensive-contract-i-40-buncombe.aspx
This is the stretch that passes through Biltmore Estate, and if you're driving around in the estate, most of the I-40 overhead bridges have stone masonry facades (I think two out of three bridges that pass over access roads). Hopefully that is not changed aside from needed maintenance, unless they make the third bridge look similar.
Quote from: SectorZ on May 22, 2023, 07:32:47 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 22, 2023, 01:09:55 AM
I-40 east of Greensboro was not apart of the original interstate system, it was added in 1968 and not even finalized alignment south of Raleigh (either to Morehead City or Wilmington) until the late 70s / early 80s.
Construction on Raleigh to Wilmington was completed in the late 80s / early 90s.
IIRC, wasn't part of the yet-to-be-opened 40 used in the movie 1986 Maximum Overdrive?
Yes it was. I believe it may have been the NC 210 interchange near Rocky Point for that one scene in the movie. It looks similar to what I saw in the movie. https://goo.gl/maps/m5HfZSrKVAVhaSxK7
I also believe that a real Dixie Boy truck stop was used in the movie before it got blown up.
#Whomadewho? #79degrees9:49amfuckyou #Honey,sugarbunsthismachinejustcalledmeanasshole!
#Curtisareyoudead?
NCDOT surprises Chapel Hill with a plan to replace I-40's interchange with US 15/501 with a DDI, replacing a totally inadequate standard diamond. The plan includes building a new road parallel to 15/501 west of the DDI, connecting Eastowne Drive on the south to the New Hope Commons commercial area on the north. I-40 EB exit and WB entrance ramps would connect to this new road as well as 15/501.
Initial response in Chapel Hill is strongly negative, not to the DDI (almost anything that would help relieve traffic at this overburdened interchange would be welcome) but to the new road, which would interfere with existing plans to expand the UNC Health complex at Eastowne, increase traffic in that area, and cut through a forest area that serves as a natural buffer between I-40 traffic and Chapel Hill. There is particular concern/anger that NCDOT drew this plan with no consultation with town planners and is seeking quick approval from the town.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/orange-county/article276194786.html
I like the DDI for I-40/US 15-501 interchange, but why do the new road have to be added? It sounds very unnecessary, but of course this is NCDOT. smh.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on June 08, 2023, 09:07:05 AM
NCDOT surprises Chapel Hill with a plan to replace I-40's interchange with US 15/501 with a DDI, replacing a totally inadequate standard diamond. The plan includes building a new road parallel to 15/501 west of the DDI, connecting Eastowne Drive on the south to the New Hope Commons commercial area on the north. I-40 EB exit and WB entrance ramps would connect to this new road as well as 15/501.
Initial response in Chapel Hill is strongly negative, not to the DDI (almost anything that would help relieve traffic at this overburdened interchange would be welcome) but to the new road, which would interfere with existing plans to expand the UNC Health complex at Eastowne, increase traffic in that area, and cut through a forest area that serves as a natural buffer between I-40 traffic and Chapel Hill. There is particular concern/anger that NCDOT drew this plan with no consultation with town planners and is seeking quick approval from the town.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/orange-county/article276194786.html
(https://www.newsobserver.com/latest-news/wm1r88/picture276198926/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/Eastowne%20Road%20connector%20plan.jpg)
Quote from: wdcrft63 on June 08, 2023, 09:07:05 AM
NCDOT surprises Chapel Hill with a plan to replace I-40's interchange with US 15/501 with a DDI, replacing a totally inadequate standard diamond. The plan includes building a new road parallel to 15/501 west of the DDI, connecting Eastowne Drive on the south to the New Hope Commons commercial area on the north. I-40 EB exit and WB entrance ramps would connect to this new road as well as 15/501.
Initial response in Chapel Hill is strongly negative, not to the DDI (almost anything that would help relieve traffic at this overburdened interchange would be welcome) but to the new road, which would interfere with existing plans to expand the UNC Health complex at Eastowne, increase traffic in that area, and cut through a forest area that serves as a natural buffer between I-40 traffic and Chapel Hill. There is particular concern/anger that NCDOT drew this plan with no consultation with town planners and is seeking quick approval from the town.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/orange-county/article276194786.html
I thought they had long-range plans here for a freeway-to-freeway interchange, and to upgrade 15/501 to the north up to the current freeway section?
Quote from: Roadsguy on June 08, 2023, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on June 08, 2023, 09:07:05 AM
NCDOT surprises Chapel Hill with a plan to replace I-40's interchange with US 15/501 with a DDI, replacing a totally inadequate standard diamond. The plan includes building a new road parallel to 15/501 west of the DDI, connecting Eastowne Drive on the south to the New Hope Commons commercial area on the north. I-40 EB exit and WB entrance ramps would connect to this new road as well as 15/501.
Initial response in Chapel Hill is strongly negative, not to the DDI (almost anything that would help relieve traffic at this overburdened interchange would be welcome) but to the new road, which would interfere with existing plans to expand the UNC Health complex at Eastowne, increase traffic in that area, and cut through a forest area that serves as a natural buffer between I-40 traffic and Chapel Hill. There is particular concern/anger that NCDOT drew this plan with no consultation with town planners and is seeking quick approval from the town.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/orange-county/article276194786.html
I thought they had long-range plans here for a freeway-to-freeway interchange, and to upgrade 15/501 to the north up to the current freeway section?
For about 25 years NCDOT has had a plan for diamond interchange at Garrett Road, but it has never been funded. That would extend the freeway about a mile across New Hope Creek to Southwest Durham Drive. Another diamond may be possible there although recent development makes this difficult. From there to I-40 commercial development is intense and ramming a freeway through would be extremely expensive.
Here's a ca. 2020 plan from Durham County planners:
https://www.dchcmpo.org/home/show published document/910/637489616303270000
^ *note* remove the spaces between "show published document" to get to the actual PDF, like in this link (https://www.dchcmpo.org/home/showpublisheddocument/910/637489616303270000).
Meanwhile, here's an interesting proposal (https://www.dchcmpo.org/home/showpublisheddocument/932/637495699685170000) from a 1994 study, though this one's probably DOA due to the aforementioned development north of I-40.
^ This seems doable, even still with the development, IMO. Convert the frontage roads north of I-40 to one way and serve as the at-grade portion connecting to I-40, and convert the existing mainline into the freeway.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 09, 2023, 11:42:05 PM
^ This seems doable, even still with the development, IMO. Convert the frontage roads north of I-40 to one way and serve as the at-grade portion connecting to I-40, and convert the existing mainline into the freeway.
The MPO is against any grade separations and the freeway conversion. (That includes the long-standing plans to grade separate Mt. Moriah and SW Durham Pky.). That's why the express design was all-surface street (other than grade separations over I-40. Chapel Hill's primary objection on the road network is the bridge on the north side of 15-501 connecting New hope Commons and Easttowne. The reason it was included was for traffic capacity, as pushing all traffic to 15-501 would not work in 2045, the design year. Has something to do with Chapel hill allowing Easttowne to redevelop, adding ~30K trips a day. But I'm sure ALL the doctors and professional staff will take the bus to/from the site. (Sarcasm alert.). Chapel Hill wants to protect that open area and remove that connection from the plans.
Chapel Hill and the MPO were aware of the express design process starting back around March but not the details.
Coming back from my in-laws this evening I noticed something I had never noticed before. Approaching I-40 on NC 209, there is a NC 209 END sign approaching I-40 on southbound, even though 209 continues to US 74. Was that ever not the case? I can never remember a time when 209 didn't extend to Business US 23.
Quote from: jdunlop on June 11, 2023, 07:23:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 09, 2023, 11:42:05 PM
^ This seems doable, even still with the development, IMO. Convert the frontage roads north of I-40 to one way and serve as the at-grade portion connecting to I-40, and convert the existing mainline into the freeway.
The MPO is against any grade separations and the freeway conversion. (That includes the long-standing plans to grade separate Mt. Moriah and SW Durham Pky.). That's why the express design was all-surface street (other than grade separations over I-40. Chapel Hill's primary objection on the road network is the bridge on the north side of 15-501 connecting New hope Commons and Easttowne. The reason it was included was for traffic capacity, as pushing all traffic to 15-501 would not work in 2045, the design year. Has something to do with Chapel hill allowing Easttowne to redevelop, adding ~30K trips a day. But I'm sure ALL the doctors and professional staff will take the bus to/from the site. (Sarcasm alert.). Chapel Hill wants to protect that open area and remove that connection from the plans.
Chapel Hill and the MPO were aware of the express design process starting back around March but not the details.
Why are they opposed to sorely needed overpass upgrades? Traffic is only going to get worse, especially as they approve new developments and thousands of new vehicles, it functions as a freeway connector between Chapel Hill and the existing freeway portion just to the north, but is overloaded by busy traffic signals. The portion north of I-40 has adequate right of way and justification for freeway upgrade. It is stupid to oppose upgrades, and gains no benefit.
Quote from: OracleUsr on June 11, 2023, 09:26:03 PM
Coming back from my in-laws this evening I noticed something I had never noticed before. Approaching I-40 on NC 209, there is a NC 209 END sign approaching I-40 on southbound, even though 209 continues to US 74. Was that ever not the case? I can never remember a time when 209 didn't extend to Business US 23.
You're right, sign is wrong. According to Wikipedia NC 209 is an original NC highway and its southern end has always been in Lake Junaluska.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 11, 2023, 10:16:51 PM
Quote from: jdunlop on June 11, 2023, 07:23:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 09, 2023, 11:42:05 PM
^ This seems doable, even still with the development, IMO. Convert the frontage roads north of I-40 to one way and serve as the at-grade portion connecting to I-40, and convert the existing mainline into the freeway.
The MPO is against any grade separations and the freeway conversion. (That includes the long-standing plans to grade separate Mt. Moriah and SW Durham Pky.). That's why the express design was all-surface street (other than grade separations over I-40. Chapel Hill's primary objection on the road network is the bridge on the north side of 15-501 connecting New hope Commons and Easttowne. The reason it was included was for traffic capacity, as pushing all traffic to 15-501 would not work in 2045, the design year. Has something to do with Chapel hill allowing Easttowne to redevelop, adding ~30K trips a day. But I'm sure ALL the doctors and professional staff will take the bus to/from the site. (Sarcasm alert.). Chapel Hill wants to protect that open area and remove that connection from the plans.
Chapel Hill and the MPO were aware of the express design process starting back around March but not the details.
Why are they opposed to sorely needed overpass upgrades? Traffic is only going to get worse, especially as they approve new developments and thousands of new vehicles, it functions as a freeway connector between Chapel Hill and the existing freeway portion just to the north, but is overloaded by busy traffic signals. The portion north of I-40 has adequate right of way and justification for freeway upgrade. It is stupid to oppose upgrades, and gains no benefit.
Their opinion is that everybody should walk/bike/take transit, and encouraging auto travel (more specifically single occupancy) is bad, and needs to stop.
(Opinion voice on). If that's the case, then they should change their zoning and approval practices away from those they end up as being auto-dependent developments.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on June 11, 2023, 10:26:56 PM
Quote from: OracleUsr on June 11, 2023, 09:26:03 PM
Coming back from my in-laws this evening I noticed something I had never noticed before. Approaching I-40 on NC 209, there is a NC 209 END sign approaching I-40 on southbound, even though 209 continues to US 74. Was that ever not the case? I can never remember a time when 209 didn't extend to Business US 23.
You're right, sign is wrong. According to Wikipedia NC 209 is an original NC highway and its southern end has always been in Lake Junaluska.
A NC Byway sign fell off. That was what ends at I-40...
https://goo.gl/maps/9CuTjrGLsh1DCXrd7
Interstate 40 West in Greensboro closing this weekend from the 85 split to Freeman Mill Road. 29 South will be closed at the Market Street Exit.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-09-i-40-west-guilford-resurfacing.aspx
Quote from: jdunlop on June 11, 2023, 10:31:57 PM
The MPO is against any grade separations and the freeway conversion. [...] Their opinion is that everybody should walk/bike/take transit, and encouraging auto travel (more specifically single occupancy) is bad, and needs to stop.
The same group that is trying to (or has) killed the freeway conversion and interchange for US 70 and Miami Blvd., for the same reasons.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on June 13, 2023, 07:25:10 AM
Quote from: jdunlop on June 11, 2023, 10:31:57 PM
The MPO is against any grade separations and the freeway conversion. [...] Their opinion is that everybody should walk/bike/take transit, and encouraging auto travel (more specifically single occupancy) is bad, and needs to stop.
The same group that is trying to (or has) killed the freeway conversion and interchange for US 70 and Miami Blvd., for the same reasons.
The MPO met today and raised these points exactly. I think WRAL's headline ("drivers upset..." ) is incorrect. Anyone who has to drive regularly through this interchange would like to see it improved.
https://www.wral.com/story/durham-chapel-hill-drivers-upset-over-proposed-redesign-of-us-15-501/20910409/
Maybe those who are upset with the proposal are not drivers, but anti-car NIMBYS.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 14, 2023, 06:39:03 PM
Maybe those who are upset with the proposal are not drivers, but anti-car NIMBYS.
Yes, MPO, we do need to improve public transportation in the Triangle. But show us a way to get GoTriangle buses from Durham to Chapel Hill without improving US 15/501. Being stuck in traffic in a bus is not a big improvement over being stuck in traffic in a car.
Quote from: jdunlop on June 11, 2023, 10:31:57 PM
The MPO is against any grade separations and the freeway conversion. [...] Their opinion is that everybody should walk/bike/take transit, and encouraging auto travel (more specifically single occupancy) is bad, and needs to stop.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on June 13, 2023, 07:25:10 AM
The same group that is trying to (or has) killed the freeway conversion and interchange for US 70 and Miami Blvd., for the same reasons.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on June 14, 2023, 06:34:48 PM
The MPO met today and raised these points exactly. I think WRAL's headline ("drivers upset..." ) is incorrect. Anyone who has to drive regularly through this interchange would like to see it improved.
https://www.wral.com/story/durham-chapel-hill-drivers-upset-over-proposed-redesign-of-us-15-501/20910409/
Indeed. But the only movement that seems problematic is from [westbound] US-15/501 -to- [southbound] I-40. Pretty much all day long, nowadays.
Just my $0.02:
- It's hard to get decent signal progression in both directions with a DDI, especially with the spacing of the intersections along 15/501.
- DDI's are not exactly known for being bike/ped friendly. if NCDOT was intending on a side-path that would be grade separated from the ramps (not unlike I-94/US 75 in Moorhead, MN), this complaint from a bike/ped perspective would have less weight.
- The situation along the 15/501 corridor just shows further why it was foolish to cancel the Chapel Hill-Durham LRT line. Would it have solved the congestion problems? No...especially with Easttowne redevelopment. But it sure as hell would have given people an alternative to get to/from there.
A repaving project on I-40 in Pender County between Exit 388 and Exit 408 will begin on June 19. Completion is expected next summer.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-16-repaving-brunswick-pender-counties.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-16-repaving-brunswick-pender-counties.aspx)
Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2023, 12:43:38 AM
- The situation along the 15/501 corridor just shows further why it was foolish to cancel the Chapel Hill-Durham LRT line. Would it have solved the congestion problems? No...especially with Easttowne redevelopment. But it sure as hell would have given people an alternative to get to/from there.
I can't believe they canceled that. What a dumb short sided move.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 19, 2023, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2023, 12:43:38 AM
- The situation along the 15/501 corridor just shows further why it was foolish to cancel the Chapel Hill-Durham LRT line. Would it have solved the congestion problems? No...especially with Easttowne redevelopment. But it sure as hell would have given people an alternative to get to/from there.
I can't believe they canceled that. What a dumb short sided move.
I am for LRT, but the Durham/CH proposal was not executed right. With 17 stops meandering through neighborhoods trying to pick up riders, it would have taken 1.5 hours to travel from end to end, you can drive back and forth 3-4 times in the same time period.
For that LRT between the 2 cities to work. it needs very few stops, 5 at most, and it must travel at a high speed to beat out driving.[/list]
Quote from: architect77 on June 27, 2023, 09:49:42 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 19, 2023, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2023, 12:43:38 AM
- The situation along the 15/501 corridor just shows further why it was foolish to cancel the Chapel Hill-Durham LRT line. Would it have solved the congestion problems? No...especially with Easttowne redevelopment. But it sure as hell would have given people an alternative to get to/from there.
I can't believe they canceled that. What a dumb short sided move.
I am for LRT, but the Durham/CH proposal was not executed right. With 17 stops meandering through neighborhoods trying to pick up riders, it would have taken 1.5 hours to travel from end to end, you can drive back and forth 3-4 times in the same time period.
For that LRT between the 2 cities to work. it needs very few stops, 5 at most, and it must travel at a high speed to beat out driving.[/list]
Without knowing the exact details of that particular project, I should've worded my post by saying I can't believe they haven't built a metro rail system and canceled that proposed line without any alternatives. If that line wasn't designed right and wouldn't have worked why wasn't something better proposed?
I would have preferred a bus rapid transit line than a light rail line. A bus line can be rerouted if there is construction, or some incident happens. I dislike the route inflexibility of rail lines.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 27, 2023, 09:53:04 PM
Quote from: architect77 on June 27, 2023, 09:49:42 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 19, 2023, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2023, 12:43:38 AM
- The situation along the 15/501 corridor just shows further why it was foolish to cancel the Chapel Hill-Durham LRT line. Would it have solved the congestion problems? No...especially with Easttowne redevelopment. But it sure as hell would have given people an alternative to get to/from there.
I can't believe they canceled that. What a dumb short sided move.
I am for LRT, but the Durham/CH proposal was not executed right. With 17 stops meandering through neighborhoods trying to pick up riders, it would have taken 1.5 hours to travel from end to end, you can drive back and forth 3-4 times in the same time period.
For that LRT between the 2 cities to work. it needs very few stops, 5 at most, and it must travel at a high speed to beat out driving.[/list]
Without knowing the exact details of that particular project, I should've worded my post by saying I can't believe they haven't built a metro rail system and canceled that proposed line without any alternatives. If that line wasn't designed right and wouldn't have worked why wasn't something better proposed?
The reasons are like this: they had collected a fair amount of revenue and were counting on a federal match. So with a big sum of money, they then sat down and tried to locate a line that would pick up as many passengers as possible. In other words, the need isn't quite there yet for a project that costs that much money. Also they spent many millions on the study itself, an absurd amount that the public decided to put the brakes on, such a waste on an upfront amount for a plan that didn't make a lot of sense.
You need two locations that thousands are travelling back and forth to everyday with driving being an extreme hassle to make the train look like a pleasing alternative. Maybe the commuter train initiative will happen eventually. I still would love for a Durham/CH line to happen though.
Quote from: froggie on June 15, 2023, 12:43:38 AM
- The situation along the 15/501 corridor just shows further why it was foolish to cancel the Chapel Hill-Durham LRT line. Would it have solved the congestion problems? No...especially with Easttowne redevelopment. But it sure as hell would have given people an alternative to get to/from there.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 19, 2023, 09:20:15 PM
I can't believe they canceled that. What a dumb short sided move.
Quote from: architect77 on June 27, 2023, 09:49:42 PM
I am for LRT, but the Durham/CH proposal was not executed right. With 17 stops meandering through neighborhoods trying to pick up riders, it would have taken 1.5 hours to travel from end to end, you can drive back and forth 3-4 times in the same time period.
For that LRT between the 2 cities to work. it needs very few stops, 5 at most, and it must travel at a high speed to beat out driving.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 27, 2023, 09:53:04 PM
Without knowing the exact details of that particular project, I should've worded my post by saying I can't believe they haven't built a metro rail system and canceled that proposed line without any alternatives. If that line wasn't designed right and wouldn't have worked why wasn't something better proposed?
Quote from: architect77 on June 29, 2023, 11:41:45 PM
The reasons are like this: they had collected a fair amount of revenue and were counting on a federal match. So with a big sum of money, they then sat down and tried to locate a line that would pick up as many passengers as possible. In other words, the need isn't quite there yet for a project that costs that much money. Also they spent many millions on the study itself, an absurd amount that the public decided to put the brakes on, such a waste on an upfront amount for a plan that didn't make a lot of sense.
You need two locations that thousands are travelling back and forth to everyday with driving being an extreme hassle to make the train look like a pleasing alternative. Maybe the commuter train initiative will happen eventually. I still would love for a Durham/CH line to happen though.
Forgive me for posting this response in the wrong thread. You are correct that Triangle Transit (dba GoTriangle, formerly Triangle Transit Authority) has been collecting a great deal of tax revenue from auto registrations in Wake, Durham and Orange counties for more than 20 years, primarily for the development of some form of rail transit somewhere in the region. One of the big issues here is that we have two Municipal Organizations that after the failed TTA Regional Rail System they mutually decided they should work independently of each other to develop "their own piece of the regional rail network". But on our end, DCHCMPO (Durham/Chapel Hill/Carrboro Municipal Planning Organization) was pressured by transit-friendly Orange County to add Chapel Hill to "their own piece of the regional rail network". The original TTA Regional Rail did include a long-term branch line from Research Triangle Park -to- Chapel Hill, but it didn't directly connect Durham and Chapel Hill. Since that was impractical with "regional rail", LRT was selected as the backup option. BRT seems trendy in Raleigh now, but that doesn't seem so desirable for a corridor that already has multiple bus services in place (even though an express busway would probably be very successful).
Cross-posting to the Raleigh-Durham Rail Transit (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31097.0) thread. Please post any replies there and we can get into more detailed questions and answers.
On I40 just east of exit 116, there has been an area of high enforcement. Today, i saw for the first time, a portable overhead gantry over both lanes that appeared to monitor speed and possible photo license plates.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on June 30, 2023, 09:46:17 PM
On I40 just east of exit 116, there has been an area of high enforcement. Today, i saw for the first time, a portable overhead gantry over both lanes that appeared to monitor speed and possible photo license plates.
Is this some small town speed trap frenzy to make some revenue, because they have a few thousand feet of I-40 that skirts the edge of their small border?
Don't think so, this is just before the closed exit to the abandoned rest area where the state troopers usually hide.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on June 30, 2023, 09:46:17 PM
On I40 just east of exit 116, there has been an area of high enforcement. Today, i saw for the first time, a portable overhead gantry over both lanes that appeared to monitor speed and possible photo license plates.
I saw whats likely the same thing on I-40/85 eastbound exit 138 a couple weeks ago. Temporary overhead gantry placed about 1/2 mile before the exit. Troopers were lined up on the entrance ramp waiting to ruin people's day.
This also helped me confirm that the NO TRUCKS OVER 3 AXLES IN LEFT TWO LANES rule is not enforced at all :angry:
Quote from: fillup420 on July 01, 2023, 09:34:18 AM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on June 30, 2023, 09:46:17 PM
On I40 just east of exit 116, there has been an area of high enforcement. Today, i saw for the first time, a portable overhead gantry over both lanes that appeared to monitor speed and possible photo license plates.
I saw whats likely the same thing on I-40/85 eastbound exit 138 a couple weeks ago. Temporary overhead gantry placed about 1/2 mile before the exit. Troopers were lined up on the entrance ramp waiting to ruin people's day.
This also helped me confirm that the NO TRUCKS OVER 3 AXLES IN LEFT TWO LANES rule is not enforced at all :angry:
It genuinely amazes me when police will blatantly ignore something like no trucks in the left lane, a serious safety issue that impedes the natural flow of traffic, causes speed differentials, causes traffic to pass on the right, abrupt braking, lane weaving, etc.
... but have no problem pulling someone going 80 mph in an underposted 65 mph wide-open flat 8 lane freeway. Is it about true safety or is it revenue?
This reminded me of when I drove the US-74 Monroe Bypass months back, and witnessed county police parked on every single on-ramp, and hidden at the emergency pull-offs by the toll gantries. I drove about 10 miles each way (northern portion) and saw over 10 police in various spots throughout the round trip. I kept my cruise control right at 5 mph over, no more.
Is the new 10 year stip as neglectful of I-40 west of Statesville as it appears to be?
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 01, 2023, 09:47:49 AM
Quote from: fillup420 on July 01, 2023, 09:34:18 AM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on June 30, 2023, 09:46:17 PM
On I40 just east of exit 116, there has been an area of high enforcement. Today, i saw for the first time, a portable overhead gantry over both lanes that appeared to monitor speed and possible photo license plates.
I saw whats likely the same thing on I-40/85 eastbound exit 138 a couple weeks ago. Temporary overhead gantry placed about 1/2 mile before the exit. Troopers were lined up on the entrance ramp waiting to ruin people's day.
This also helped me confirm that the NO TRUCKS OVER 3 AXLES IN LEFT TWO LANES rule is not enforced at all :angry:
It genuinely amazes me when police will blatantly ignore something like no trucks in the left lane, a serious safety issue that impedes the natural flow of traffic, causes speed differentials, causes traffic to pass on the right, abrupt braking, lane weaving, etc.
... but have no problem pulling someone going 80 mph in an underposted 65 mph wide-open flat 8 lane freeway. Is it about true safety or is it revenue?
This reminded me of when I drove the US-74 Monroe Bypass months back, and witnessed county police parked on every single on-ramp, and hidden at the emergency pull-offs by the toll gantries. I drove about 10 miles each way (northern portion) and saw over 10 police in various spots throughout the round trip. I kept my cruise control right at 5 mph over, no more.
I say contact the highway patrol and bring the truck restrictions to their attention.
On I-85 in SC the trucks all stay in the middle lane and they fail to keep up with flow of traffic. Though only the left lane is restricted and they are allowed to use the middle lane. everyone's lives would be improved if they stayed in the right lane unless willing to maintain the appropriate speed.
Starting tonight and lasting for several months the ramps on the east side of the Airport Boulevard exit (Exit 284) will be closed. This includes the I-40 west exit and the I-40 east entrance. The closing is part of the project to reconfigure the interchange as a DDI.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-07-21-i-40-airport-boulevard-ramps-closed.aspx
Quote from: LM117 on June 16, 2023, 03:48:58 PM
A repaving project on I-40 in Pender County between Exit 388 and Exit 408 will begin on June 19. Completion is expected next summer.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-16-repaving-brunswick-pender-counties.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-06-16-repaving-brunswick-pender-counties.aspx)
A contract for improvements to an additional stretch of I-40 in New Hanover & Pender counties has been awarded.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-07-28-new-hanover-pender-interstate-improvements.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-07-28-new-hanover-pender-interstate-improvements.aspx)
And in Raleigh, the ramp from Wade Avenue to I-40 East will be closed for the weekend as part of the I-40 improvements project in the area.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-07-28-wade-avenue-i-40-ramp-closed.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-07-28-wade-avenue-i-40-ramp-closed.aspx)
I-40 West will close at the NC 42 exit (Exit 312) 10 pm to 5 am Sunday through Thursday so crews can demolish part of the flyover from US 70 to I-40 at the new Toll 540 interchange.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-08-11-i-40-closure-42-clayton-garner.aspx
Tonight the Durham County Commission asks NCDOT to name the interchange of I-40 and US 15/501 for former congressman David Price. Price represented Durham for 16 terms until he retired in 2022. Are there other named interchanges in NC?
Quote from: wdcrft63 on August 28, 2023, 09:04:17 PM
Tonight the Durham County Commission asks NCDOT to name the interchange of I-40 and US 15/501 for former congressman David Price. Price represented Durham for 16 terms until he retired in 2022. Are there other named interchanges in NC?
I'm not having any luck getting the NCDOT ArcGIS mapping for Honorary Designations to work, but some hacking behind the scenes into (yikes) Javascript (yikes) indicates the following three interchanges might have such designations:
- I-95 -at- US-64 Rocky Mount
- I-40 -at- US-74 Clyde
- I-40 -at- US-74A Asheville
Keep in mind that the bridges at these interchanges may be designated rather than the interchanges themselves. All of this is fairly new. It appears that the honorary interchange designation was added by NCDOT in May 2022. I'll keep looking.
By the way, Rep. Price (my district) ended his political career as Chair of the House Transportation (et al) Subcommittee. A fitting tribute to someone who didn't pretend to be like Bud Shuster.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on August 28, 2023, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on August 28, 2023, 09:04:17 PM
Tonight the Durham County Commission asks NCDOT to name the interchange of I-40 and US 15/501 for former congressman David Price. Price represented Durham for 16 terms until he retired in 2022. Are there other named interchanges in NC?
I'm not having any luck getting the NCDOT ArcGIS mapping for Honorary Designations to work, but some hacking behind the scenes into (yikes) Javascript (yikes) indicates the following three interchanges might have such designations:
- I-95 -at- US-64 Rocky Mount
- I-40 -at- US-74 Clyde
- I-40 -at- US-74A Asheville
Keep in mind that the bridges at these interchanges may be designated rather than the interchanges themselves. All of this is fairly new. It appears that the honorary interchange designation was added by NCDOT in May 2022. I'll keep looking.
By the way, Rep. Price (my district) ended his political career as Chair of the House Transportation (et al) Subcommittee. A fitting tribute to someone who didn't pretend to be like Bud Shuster.
Yes, the bridges at these interchanges are designated, for officers killed while on duty I believe, as I just checked the above locations on Google Maps.
Perhaps a few interchanges could be named for influential NC people. The US 52/US 421, Salem Pkwy interchange could be named the Clarence "Big House" Gaines interchange, I-40/NC 54 interchange 273 could be named after Dean Smith, and the future I-240/I-26 interchange in north Asheville could be named after Robert Moog.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on June 30, 2023, 09:46:17 PM
On I40 just east of exit 116, there has been an area of high enforcement. Today, i saw for the first time, a portable overhead gantry over both lanes that appeared to monitor speed and possible photo license plates.
It's actually to monitor cell phone and seat belt usage by commercial vehicles
https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/nc-highway-patrol-utilizing-ai-to-crack-down-on-distracted-driving/#:~:text=The%20cameras%20take%20pictures%20through,drivers%20they%20were%20alerted%20about.
Are they allowed to use the camera / imaging by itself to issue a citation? Or does the camera simply alert nearby officers to pay attention to that vehicle? In my opinion, unless the officer physically witnesses the violation by themselves, with their own eyes, this should not be legal.
The device was moved a few weeks ago to 40 WB just after the 321 merge. It's right at the new Long View city limit sigñ, and the locals think it's for long view going after speeders.
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 06, 2023, 12:56:58 AM
Are they allowed to use the camera / imaging by itself to issue a citation? Or does the camera simply alert nearby officers to pay attention to that vehicle? In my opinion, unless the officer physically witnesses the violation by themselves, with their own eyes, this should not be legal.
It allows them to look into higher vehicles in real time. In that sense, they are witnessing the violation and can decide whether to pull over the vehicle.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on September 06, 2023, 11:01:07 AM
The device was moved a few weeks ago to 40 WB just after the 321 merge. It's right at the new Long View city limit sigñ, and the locals think it's for long view going after speeders.
Supposedly it can be used to alert officers to speeding vehicles, but I imagine they would have to confirm using their own radar/laser unless the device is approved in the state as a speed measuring device (and even then I imagine someone would challenge it as an illegal speed camera).
For the next 14 months I-40 will be down to one lane in each direction for six miles at Old Fort, at the foot of the Blue Ridge east of Asheville. This is an old section overdue for rehabilitation but the project won't be any fun for drivers.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-09-08-i-40-old-fort-mountain.aspx
Quote from: wdcrft63 on September 08, 2023, 05:36:29 PM
For the next 14 months I-40 will be down to one lane in each direction for six miles at Old Fort, at the foot of the Blue Ridge east of Asheville. This is an old section overdue for rehabilitation but the project won't be any fun for drivers.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-09-08-i-40-old-fort-mountain.aspx
Says closing one lane, and the majority of the work zone is six lanes. Also, looks like most of the work will be at night:
The Contractor shall complete the required work of installing, maintaining, and removing the
traffic control devices for lane closures and restoring traffic to the existing traffic pattern. The
Contractor shall not close or narrow a lane of traffic, or close a shoulder, on I-40 during the
following time restrictions:
DAY AND TIME RESTRICTIONS
Saturday thru Thursday, 6:00 A.M. to 7:00 P.M.
Friday, 6:00 A.M. to 12:00 A.M. (Midnight)
Transportation Management Plans (https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/dsplan/2023%20Highway%20Letting/07-18-23/Plans%20and%20Proposals/MCDOWELL_49909.3.1_HI-0010_C204738/Standard%20PDF%20Files/200%20Transportation%20Management%20Plans.pdf)
Tonight NCDOT will open the new eastbound lanes of I-40 at the I-77 interchange, an important step in what seems like an interminable project. The announcement is a bit confusing but it's trying to say the old eastbound lanes will still be available for access to I-77.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-09-15-i-40-traffic-shift.aspx
As part of the I-40 widening project between Raleigh and Clayton, the Jones Sausage Road bridge will be closed overnight several times this week in order to prepare the ramps for the upcoming DDI conversion
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-10-16-jones-sausage-bridge-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-10-16-jones-sausage-bridge-closure.aspx)
Quote from: wdcrft63 on September 15, 2023, 07:37:00 PM
Tonight NCDOT will open the new eastbound lanes of I-40 at the I-77 interchange, an important step in what seems like an interminable project. The announcement is a bit confusing but it's trying to say the old eastbound lanes will still be available for access to I-77.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-09-15-i-40-traffic-shift.aspx
Lol yeah the old I-40 eastbound lanes became the CD lanes for both I-77 and US 21 exits with one lane to rejoin I-40 East after I-77 ramps depart, so technically they're right.
NCDOT is also starting a project to fix the 'bumpy lane' along I-40 in the Asheville area:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-10-16-i-40-bumpy-lane-buncombe.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-10-16-i-40-bumpy-lane-buncombe.aspx)
The Jones Sausage Road bridge over I-40 in Garner will be closed for the weekend as part of the DDI conversion project.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-11-17-jones-sausage-bridge-closed.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-11-17-jones-sausage-bridge-closed.aspx)
Signs are up indicating nighttime closures for all the ramps at the 321 cloverleaf.
NCDOT announces major milestone for the I-40/I-77 interchange project:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-12-22-iredell-county-project-milestone.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2023/2023-12-22-iredell-county-project-milestone.aspx)
As part of the I-40 widening project in Orange County, a part of Millhouse Road will be closed for 4 months, beginning Sunday night at 11:00, so that the existing I-40 bridges over Millhouse Road can be widened.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-06-03-millhouse-road-long-term-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-06-03-millhouse-road-long-term-closure.aspx)
Also as part of the I-40 widening project in Orange County, the "new lanes" for the bridge over Old NC-86 at Exit 261 are now being utilized for westbound traffic whilst the old westbound structure is being removed/reconstructed. Those "new lanes" appear to be some 5 or 6 feet higher in elevation than the existing bridges on either side. Not sure whether the "new lanes" will eventually become two of the three eastbound lanes on the bridge, or will be further reconstructed with a tall Jersey barrier down the middle (ergo, one new eastbound and one new westbound like most of the rest of the I-40 widening project).
NCDOT is about to wrap up the I-40/I-77/US 21 Partial Turbine interchange. (US 21 interchange is connected via CD lanes) This Youtuber drove and showed most of the interchange area except for I-77 South to I-40 East loop ramp. Here is the video link below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I35GayoPtDk
There will be a division let on 3/20 to rehab and widen the overcrossing at Exit 113. The widening will be a few feet to either side to allow for a left turn lane on the bridge.
Those two interchanges are awesome! A DDI at US 21 and a 3/4 turbine at I-77, and C/D roads connect them both? I love it!
The six through lanes on I-40 are a bit of overkill with the collector lanes. No one seems to be utilizing the third right lane since it ends up exiting or ending after a couple of miles, especially the tractor-trailers. I wish they'd gone ahead and widened a couple more miles west to Exit 148 and rebuilt the two sub-standard interchanges/bridges at 148 and 150.
I recall that at one point there was a 12 month item for redoing exit 148, I will go back and look.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on March 16, 2024, 12:10:54 PM
The six through lanes on I-40 are a bit of overkill with the collector lanes. No one seems to be utilizing the third right lane since it ends up exiting or ending after a couple of miles, especially the tractor-trailers.
I wouldn't say it's overkill... building for the future. It allows traffic to have more merging space and to un-choke traffic a little bit through that interchange area.
On May 6, the bridge at exit 113 will close for 6 months for rehab. The plans I saw showed a slight widening to provide a center turn lane as well.
NCDOT announcement about more closures on I-40 for the NC 540 project. Since this was posted they moved the closure up to tonight (4/17). They could have made the notice more complicated by stating I-40 West is closed so traffic should use NC 42 (Future NC 36) East to US 70 (Future I-42) West to get back to I-40:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-04-17-road-closed-i-40-west-clayton.aspx
More news on I-40, new interchange is opening in Johnston County just south of the (soon to be former) NC 42 exit:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-04-19-new-1-40-interchange-johnston.aspx
Is the proposal to renumber a portion of NC 42 to NC 36 set in stone? I haven't seen anything on whether or not the proposal was approved. Did I miss something?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 19, 2024, 01:53:51 PMIs the proposal to renumber a portion of NC 42 to NC 36 set in stone? I haven't seen anything on whether or not the proposal was approved. Did I miss something?
I wanna say it's been mentioned in either the North Carolina or I-42 threads. It's going to happen in order to alleviate confusion with I-42.
Quote from: wriddle082 on April 19, 2024, 05:28:18 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on April 19, 2024, 01:53:51 PMIs the proposal to renumber a portion of NC 42 to NC 36 set in stone? I haven't seen anything on whether or not the proposal was approved. Did I miss something?
I wanna say it's been mentioned in either the North Carolina or I-42 threads. It's going to happen in order to alleviate confusion with I-42.
I have not heard anything since the public meeting in October whether a final decision has been made. The news article about the public meeting indicated a decision would be made in less than a year, prior to I-42 being signed. So perhaps we'll find out this summer, if not next fall.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 17, 2024, 01:48:05 AMQuote from: cowboy_wilhelm on March 16, 2024, 12:10:54 PMThe six through lanes on I-40 are a bit of overkill with the collector lanes. No one seems to be utilizing the third right lane since it ends up exiting or ending after a couple of miles, especially the tractor-trailers. I wish they'd gone ahead and widened a couple more miles west to Exit 148 and rebuilt the two sub-standard interchanges/bridges at 148 and 150.
I wouldn't say it's overkill... building for the future. It allows traffic to have more merging space and to un-choke traffic a little bit through that interchange area.
Which is the purpose of the C/D lanes. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar amount of traffic use the C/D lanes as the through lanes. Sure, better to widen with the rest of the project and future-proof it, but it's not really where the additional lanes are needed since so much traffic exits the I-40 main line. It's still overkill for such a short distance and lower volume when everything bottlenecks back to two sub-standard lanes after the C/D lanes merge. Like why not add 1000 feet of auxiliary lane eastbound to connect exits 150 and 151? Oh well, maybe one of these decades.
It's kind of funny how much conversation there is on here about future interstate upgrades in North Carolina when there are still so many miles of existing interstate highway in North Carolina that don't even meet modern interstate standards.
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How much time can elapse before NCDot has to recalculate a design because of increasing traffic count? I ask because after several options were presented in 2017 for the improvement to Exit 103, US 64 in Morganton, opting to go with a larger "tight diamond", the traffic at that interchange continues to increase dramatically, do mostly to the additional educational institutions that have been added to the grounds of Western Piedmont Community College. This added traffic even more stresses the left from 64 west to 40 east. When NCDot went with the larger tight diamond, I stated that this would be inadequate, it is even more likely so now.
The design year traffic volume is at least 20 years from the time construction is planned to start. The design year is 2040 for this project, which is now the estimated let date. The problem is the final planning document was signed by the FHWA in 2018. Things kind of get etched into stone at that point. The final design plans can't deviate very much from what was complete when the planning document was signed without starting the planning and review process all over again. Design and planning is expensive and lead to further delays. An updated traffic forecast may still happen, but unless the forecast shows the proposed design won't operate at an acceptable level of service in the new design year, the design is unlikely to change. So, unless there are drastic changes to the land use in the area and/or significant increases in traffic volumes, the design probably won't change at this point. Traffic counts at the interchange from the past several years don't really reflect that, but the latest counts are from 2022.
I can think of several other projects off hand that have traffic forecasts that are many years old with no sign of construction starting within the next decade and have wondered if they will remain unchanged or not.
I still don't know why a SPUI wasn't considered for this location and why NCDOT doesn't build them now. They specifically cited the right-of-way limitations at this interchange as a reason for not going with a different design than what was selected. It's been several years (decade?) since a SPUI was constructed in North Carolina, and I only know of one that is still proposed at Glenwood Ave./Brier Creek Pkwy. in Raleigh. Yeah, they're expensive, but it seems like these types of locations would warrant the compact design and associated cost.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on April 23, 2024, 08:20:24 PMThe design year traffic volume is at least 20 years from the time construction is planned to start. The design year is 2040 for this project, which is now the estimated let date. The problem is the final planning document was signed by the FHWA in 2018. Things kind of get etched into stone at that point. The final design plans can't deviate very much from what was complete when the planning document was signed without starting the planning and review process all over again. Design and planning is expensive and lead to further delays. An updated traffic forecast may still happen, but unless the forecast shows the proposed design won't operate at an acceptable level of service in the new design year, the design is unlikely to change. So, unless there are drastic changes to the land use in the area and/or significant increases in traffic volumes, the design probably won't change at this point. Traffic counts at the interchange from the past several years don't really reflect that, but the latest counts are from 2022.
I can think of several other projects off hand that have traffic forecasts that are many years old with no sign of construction starting within the next decade and have wondered if they will remain unchanged or not.
I still don't know why a SPUI wasn't considered for this location and why NCDOT doesn't build them now. They specifically cited the right-of-way limitations at this interchange as a reason for not going with a different design than what was selected. It's been several years (decade?) since a SPUI was constructed in North Carolina, and I only know of one that is still proposed at Glenwood Ave./Brier Creek Pkwy. in Raleigh. Yeah, they're expensive, but it seems like these types of locations would warrant the compact design and associated cost.
When I saw the SPUI plan, I noted it was $18m construction, $27m row. The constraints they have are: Historically protected structure in SE corner, major power substation in NE corner and a a multi story hotel in the NW corner that was going to be torn down for the SPUI plan. Now at one point there was a design wherein there was to be a 40w to 64w loop ramp placed behind the motel, ut that's not the loop they need, they need 64w to 40e for all the school traffic. You noted a 2022 traffic study update... the UNC western school for Math and Science and the foothills occupation training center have bot opened since then with a few hundred additional college students dumping onto 64 w.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on April 23, 2024, 08:20:24 PMThe design year traffic volume is at least 20 years from the time construction is planned to start. The design year is 2040 for this project, which is now the estimated let date. The problem is the final planning document was signed by the FHWA in 2018. Things kind of get etched into stone at that point. The final design plans can't deviate very much from what was complete when the planning document was signed without starting the planning and review process all over again. Design and planning is expensive and lead to further delays. An updated traffic forecast may still happen, but unless the forecast shows the proposed design won't operate at an acceptable level of service in the new design year, the design is unlikely to change. So, unless there are drastic changes to the land use in the area and/or significant increases in traffic volumes, the design probably won't change at this point. Traffic counts at the interchange from the past several years don't really reflect that, but the latest counts are from 2022.
I can think of several other projects off hand that have traffic forecasts that are many years old with no sign of construction starting within the next decade and have wondered if they will remain unchanged or not.
I still don't know why a SPUI wasn't considered for this location and why NCDOT doesn't build them now. They specifically cited the right-of-way limitations at this interchange as a reason for not going with a different design than what was selected. It's been several years (decade?) since a SPUI was constructed in North Carolina, and I only know of one that is still proposed at Glenwood Ave./Brier Creek Pkwy. in Raleigh. Yeah, they're expensive, but it seems like these types of locations would warrant the compact design and associated cost.
Note that the listed let date of 2040 is a placeholder at this time, although there's some projects that will take that long through the prioritization process.
FHWA does require traffic forecasts to be within 20 years of project let. IF within a couple of years, the Roadway Design team often would just take the growth rate and project a few years more. Future volumes are updated for each new round of prioritization, although the volumes used are not the traditional full traffic forecast, but an estimate based on current AADTs, traffic counts (primarily for turning movement percentages) and historic growth rates. The latter is usually sufficient for most projects, including the interchange in Morgantown. (The SPOT process does review locations for anything that has changed in the area, which would drive the need for a full traffic forecast if those changes aren't covered adequately by the recent traffic counts.)
SPUIs went out of fashion once the DDI came in. The DDI is usually as efficient, and far less costly. I basically killed the SPUI in NC after the first DDI was opened in 2009. Changed at least three projects and saved a lot of money - I-95 exit 22 in Lumberton, Catawba Ave on I-77 in Cornelius and Union Cross Road at I-40 in Winston-Salem. Probably a few others, but not remembering them right now. (The SPUI could not reasonably be built in Lumberton due to the angle of the road crossing, IIRC the differences between the SPUI and DDI were about $20M for Cornelius back in 2009, and I know we saved at least $10M at Union Cross, a great deal by not needing to tear down a less than 20 year bridge but building a new one next to it.)
Very few locations would warrant a SPUI these days, the US 70/Brier Creek location is one of those few. The location in Morganton is not. The volumes can be easily handled with a DDI or tight diamond (which, if I read the preliminary plans correctly, put the ramps about where they are now, with the new bridge shifted a bit to the west for construction while under traffic.)
To ARMOURERERIC, loops aren't always for the highest volume of ramp traffic. It used to be that Roadway Design would leave space for ramps in quadrants A & C (on-ramps to the freeway.) Usually called a parclo A (partial cloverleaf in the A and C quadrants.) We came to an aha moment about 10 years ago, realizing that the problem with Parclo A is that there are two on-ramps, creating more conflict points, with the loop ramp acceleration shortened by the other on-ramp. Plus, the ramp intersections on the surface street required the ramp traffic phase to stop both directions of traffic. The Parclo B removes the dual on-ramp issue, and on the surface street the ramp intersections are leftovers, very similar to RCUTs/Superstreets/RCIs, with the same efficiency. Hard for a designer to change a long history of design, but they're many of the same ones that continued to insist on five-lane roads (instead of medians) long after they were shown to be significantly less safe. (Of course, like me, many are now retired!)
(There are always locations that are exceptions, such as the SPUI at Brier Creek.)
Considering construction phasing, I don't think a SPUI could be constructed in Morganton anyway since the existing overpass would need to be kept open. There'd have to be a major shift to the east or west due to the larger structure, knocking out nearby properties with the approaches. At that point, you might as well go with the cheaper DDI.
Brier Creek is a good example of a delayed project (from 2018 to 2028 now) with an updated 2023 traffic forecast (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Traffic%20Forecasts/U-5518%20Wake%20TF/U-5518%20Wake%20Durham%202023%20TF.pdf) for 2050. The previous forecast looks like it was 2016/2040. It has gotten so bad there that I don't even go to Brier Creek anymore.
A fully upgraded U.S. 70 from I-540 to Durham would be a huge relief for I-40. Basically all of north Raleigh could utilize U.S. 70 for I-40/I-85 towards Greensboro.
I did not know about the public meetings on 40/64 hence did not attend. My biggest agitation is that the local paper supposedly showed online all the alternatives, and a tight diamond was NOT one of them. Even now, on local discussion forums many are like "where did that stupid option come from"? I'm curious if the FHA approved an option that the locals did not really have a chance to comment on. All the other proposals had a 2 or 3 lane left turn pocket from 64w to 40e, a properly built tight diamond is going to need a 7 lane bridge for 64, 2 lanes each direction for 64, 2 lanes for left turns on 64 w, and 1 lane for lefts on 64e and the will have to be concurrent on the bridge due to the close signal spacing. Hell the SPUI had a triple left, so obviously there was a noticeable need.
What stinks 8s with all these interchanges that were supposed to be done by 2020 now being pushed back, NCDot is having to spend millions just to keep 70 years old bridge decks usable for another 20 years.
About the difference in DDI vs. SPUI and preference phasing out SPUI's for DDI cause of cost... aren't the two interchanges for distinctive different uses?
SPUI's are useful when there's a heavy amount of through traffic on the cross street... that is traffic going straight through without turning on/off the freeway ramps.
Whereas DDI's are best placed when there's a large amount of exiting / entering traffic, and a lesser amount of actual cross street through traffic.
So I'm not understanding how a SPUI was just flipped to a DDI for cost... was it actually the better option for the type of traffic the road handled?
I was always told that DDI's were for when cross road traffic was heavily turning left to get on the freeway ramps.
Both the DDI and SPUI work best when there's heavy ramp traffic. That's why the DDI is typically an easy replacement for a SPUI.
Definitely wouldn't do a SPUI just for heavy through traffic. They are useful for heavy overall traffic (such as Brier Creek Parkway/US 70, which was discussed previously.)
My quick rule of thumb for DDIs when we first considered them is if the ramp traffic took up more than 50% of the signal timing. The idea is that with a DDI, the through traffic is basically limited to 50% of the green time at the crisscross intersection (assuming a relatively even volume split on the surface street.) So, if the ramp traffic took more than 50%, a DDI would give back time to the through street. (It wasn't a warrant to install, just to consider it.)
With the DDI, you also have to consider off-peak periods, and whether the negative phasing impact for light traffic (ramp traffic less than 50% of signal time) is worth the positive impact during peak periods. With advanced simulation, that's now easier to calculate, and provide additional data to make the decision about whether or not to put a DDI in.
For retrofits where you can reuse the existing bridge(s) and little modification is needed to the ramps, then the DDI is a great, relatively inexpensive, fix. For new locations or ones where the entire interchange has to be rebuilt, that opens up other options that very often will be better than a DDI. (A Parclo B, as I believe I mentioned earlier.) However, off ramp loops (typically a single lane exiting) has a capacity limit of about 1300 vehicles/hour, which would likely kill that as an option, opening it back up for DDIs. A left off a DDI can handle a lot more than that - a single lane "straight" exit's capacity is around 2000 v/h, plus it's easier to provide multiple lanes exits and making the left turn.
It will require three retaining walls to widen the ramp from I-40 east to I-26 east, but they can't put up overhead signs showing that it's a two-lane exit?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53738990869_f713a2dde2_z.jpg) (https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/dsplan/2024%20Highway%20Letting/07-16-24/Plans%20and%20Proposals/BUNCOMBE_I2513AA_I2513AB_C204878/Standard%20PDF%20Files/250%20Signing%20Plans.pdf)
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on May 22, 2024, 08:04:59 AMIt will require three retaining walls to widen the ramp from I-40 east to I-26 east, but they can't put up overhead signs showing that it's a two-lane exit?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53738990869_f713a2dde2_z.jpg) (https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/dsplan/2024%20Highway%20Letting/07-16-24/Plans%20and%20Proposals/BUNCOMBE_I2513AA_I2513AB_C204878/Standard%20PDF%20Files/250%20Signing%20Plans.pdf)
Interesting to see I-240 is gone in those plans. I thought the plan was to keep I-240 looping back to I-40.
Also interesting control city choice of Johnson City for WB I-26. I guess NCDOT doesn't really have a choice, but I think perhaps Newport or Bristol would've been a better choice. Maybe the area has a local nickname like "Tri-Cities" that could be placed there instead.
Even if Interstate 240 signage is removed from Interstate 40's guide signs, I doubt any portion of 240's 9.14-mile length will be truncated. Maybe once the Interstates 26/240 duplex is upgraded and expanded, a plan could be developed to upgrade the rest of 240 to Interstate Standards, since all of 240 is a very substandard freeway.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 22, 2024, 06:49:13 PMEven if Interstate 240 signage is removed from Interstate 40's guide signs, I doubt any portion of 240's 9.14-mile length will be truncated. Maybe once the Interstates 26/240 duplex is upgraded and expanded, a plan could be developed to upgrade the rest of 240 to Interstate Standards, since all of 240 is a very substandard freeway.
It took a while during the planning (I started on the project 24 years ago; that was about seven years into the work) but the final concept had 240 ending at 26. That made 26 the continuous freeway instead of 240 and helped lead some design decisions about that interchange.
Asheville would like to decommission 240, similar to how Durham would like to decommission NC 147 and convert from a freeway to a boulevard. More likely in the downtown area (26 to the cut); there's work that'll eventually be needed as those bridges reach their life expectancy.
Quote from: jdunlop on May 23, 2024, 03:20:53 PMAsheville would like to decommission 240, similar to how Durham would like to decommission NC 147 and convert from a freeway to a boulevard. More likely in the downtown area (26 to the cut); there's work that'll eventually be needed as those bridges reach their life expectancy.
Are there definitive plans for both freeway-to-surface road conversions? Or is this essentially something planned for after 2040 or so?
(As opposed to the in-progress changes for I-375 in Detroit and parts of I-81 in Syracuse)
Quote from: TheStranger on May 23, 2024, 05:03:03 PMQuote from: jdunlop on May 23, 2024, 03:20:53 PMAsheville would like to decommission 240, similar to how Durham would like to decommission NC 147 and convert from a freeway to a boulevard. More likely in the downtown area (26 to the cut); there's work that'll eventually be needed as those bridges reach their life expectancy.
Are there definitive plans for both freeway-to-surface road conversions? Or is this essentially something planned for after 2040 or so?
(As opposed to the in-progress changes for I-375 in Detroit and parts of I-81 in Syracuse)
Asheville has suggested it, but nothing definitive, and NCDOT has not agreed to go along with it at this point. I don't think they'll consider it until the I-26 corridor is finished.
I see some merit to the idea, as mentioned specifically in the downtown area where the road/RW is tight. When it comes time to replace the bridges in that area, the discussion will ramp up.
Quote from: jdunlop on May 24, 2024, 03:23:27 PMQuote from: TheStranger on May 23, 2024, 05:03:03 PMQuote from: jdunlop on May 23, 2024, 03:20:53 PMAsheville would like to decommission 240, similar to how Durham would like to decommission NC 147 and convert from a freeway to a boulevard. More likely in the downtown area (26 to the cut); there's work that'll eventually be needed as those bridges reach their life expectancy.
Are there definitive plans for both freeway-to-surface road conversions? Or is this essentially something planned for after 2040 or so?
(As opposed to the in-progress changes for I-375 in Detroit and parts of I-81 in Syracuse)
Asheville has suggested it, but nothing definitive, and NCDOT has not agreed to go along with it at this point. I don't think they'll consider it until the I-26 corridor is finished.
I see some merit to the idea, as mentioned specifically in the downtown area where the road/RW is tight. When it comes time to replace the bridges in that area, the discussion will ramp up.
Not shocked at the lack of "definitive plans", but has the city looked into any potential concepts?
Quote from: jdunlop on May 23, 2024, 03:20:53 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on May 22, 2024, 06:49:13 PMEven if Interstate 240 signage is removed from Interstate 40's guide signs, I doubt any portion of 240's 9.14-mile length will be truncated. Maybe once the Interstates 26/240 duplex is upgraded and expanded, a plan could be developed to upgrade the rest of 240 to Interstate Standards, since all of 240 is a very substandard freeway.
It took a while during the planning (I started on the project 24 years ago; that was about seven years into the work) but the final concept had 240 ending at 26. That made 26 the continuous freeway instead of 240 and helped lead some design decisions about that interchange.
Asheville would like to decommission 240, similar to how Durham would like to decommission NC 147 and convert from a freeway to a boulevard. More likely in the downtown area (26 to the cut); there's work that'll eventually be needed as those bridges reach their life expectancy.
Leaving I-240 off the signs makes a lot of sense, given that I-26 will exit the loop to the left going towards Johnson City, but I feel it would be even better if I-240 had been retained and marked with the word "TO" as a way of letting the motorist know that it's still there.
If the 240 designation is dropped from the 26/240 duplex, the existing exit numbers would have to be renumbered to correspond with 26's mileage. I think the 26/240 duplex should remain, although 26 probably should have been signed north-south to eliminate the wrong-way duplex along 26/240.
Quote from: froggie on May 24, 2024, 07:00:40 PMQuote from: jdunlop on May 24, 2024, 03:23:27 PMQuote from: TheStranger on May 23, 2024, 05:03:03 PMQuote from: jdunlop on May 23, 2024, 03:20:53 PMAsheville would like to decommission 240, similar to how Durham would like to decommission NC 147 and convert from a freeway to a boulevard. More likely in the downtown area (26 to the cut); there's work that'll eventually be needed as those bridges reach their life expectancy.
Are there definitive plans for both freeway-to-surface road conversions? Or is this essentially something planned for after 2040 or so?
(As opposed to the in-progress changes for I-375 in Detroit and parts of I-81 in Syracuse)
Asheville has suggested it, but nothing definitive, and NCDOT has not agreed to go along with it at this point. I don't think they'll consider it until the I-26 corridor is finished.
I see some merit to the idea, as mentioned specifically in the downtown area where the road/RW is tight. When it comes time to replace the bridges in that area, the discussion will ramp up.
Not shocked at the lack of "definitive plans", but has the city looked into any potential concepts?
Hey Froggie!
The comment is more of the "we have to deemphasize cars, let's get rid of freeways" idea from (some anti-car people in Asheville) than a well thought-out idea.
As I mentioned, the section from 26 to Charlotte Street could be looked at once I-26 is completed, and the next "big" project in the region is replacing the bridges on that segment. (I'm not discounting widening 40; those are already in the SPOT system IIRC.) It would take a major diversion of traffic on 240, but since the necessary connections from 26/240 to 40 haven't been there, it's a possibility. That's why it would need to wait until the completion of the project and settling of traffic patterns.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 25, 2024, 02:04:17 PMIf the 240 designation is dropped from the 26/240 duplex, the existing exit numbers would have to be renumbered to correspond with 26's mileage. I think the 26/240 duplex should remain, although 26 probably should have been signed north-south to eliminate the wrong-way duplex along 26/240.
I-26, for better or worse, is an east-west interstate. Not changing it to N-S. I would expect that the exit numbers would follow the 2-digit interstate over the 2-digit one.
However, you point out a reason to leave the duplex, so as to not renumber the exits on the remainder of 240 east to 40.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 26, 2024, 06:47:49 AMI was always told that DDI's were for when cross road traffic was heavily turning left to get on the freeway ramps.
In Orlando I-4 and Sand Lake Road have DDI now, and more through traffic than turning.
Part of I-40 East in Asheville will be closed this weekend.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-06-05-i-40-weekend-asheville.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-06-05-i-40-weekend-asheville.aspx)
NCDOT awarded a contract for replacing the bridges over Beaverdam Road in Haywood County. Construction can begin on July 8, and completion is expected in April 2028.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-06-14-haywood-bridges-beaverdam-awarded.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-06-14-haywood-bridges-beaverdam-awarded.aspx)
Upcoming closure on I-40 East in Asheville.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-10-i-40-east-asheville-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-10-i-40-east-asheville-closure.aspx)
NCDOT announces completion of I-40 widening project southeast of Raleigh:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-09-06-i-40-widening-raleigh.aspx
Remaining sign placement projects indicated in the text include those needed when the NC 540/Triangle Expressway interchange opens on Sept. 25.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 25, 2024, 02:04:17 PMIf the 240 designation is dropped from the 26/240 duplex, the existing exit numbers would have to be renumbered to correspond with 26's mileage. I think the 26/240 duplex should remain, although 26 probably should have been signed north-south to eliminate the wrong-way duplex along 26/240.
So here is the fun bit of information, there is no I-26/I-240 duplex, it's just I-240 currently through Asheville. If you pull any NCDOT map, that can be easily confirmed.
The reason you see I-26 signage is because they needed to add them for people not realizing it continues just north of Asheville. But this is a unique case and not replicated anywhere else in the state where Interstates are future designated.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on September 06, 2024, 04:44:37 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on May 25, 2024, 02:04:17 PMIf the 240 designation is dropped from the 26/240 duplex, the existing exit numbers would have to be renumbered to correspond with 26's mileage. I think the 26/240 duplex should remain, although 26 probably should have been signed north-south to eliminate the wrong-way duplex along 26/240.
So here is the fun bit of information, there is no I-26/I-240 duplex, it's just I-240 currently through Asheville. If you pull any NCDOT map, that can be easily confirmed.
I pulled the .pdf of the map and this is not easily confirmed from the Asheville inset that I see on it.
Quote from: Rothman on September 06, 2024, 10:23:14 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on September 06, 2024, 04:44:37 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on May 25, 2024, 02:04:17 PMIf the 240 designation is dropped from the 26/240 duplex, the existing exit numbers would have to be renumbered to correspond with 26's mileage. I think the 26/240 duplex should remain, although 26 probably should have been signed north-south to eliminate the wrong-way duplex along 26/240.
So here is the fun bit of information, there is no I-26/I-240 duplex, it's just I-240 currently through Asheville. If you pull any NCDOT map, that can be easily confirmed.
I pulled the .pdf of the map and this is not easily confirmed from the Asheville inset that I see on it.
Google Maps has recent street views of the I-40/I-26 interchange showING the I-26/I-240 overlap still indicated on the overhead BGS.
Quote from: Rothman on September 06, 2024, 10:23:14 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on September 06, 2024, 04:44:37 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on May 25, 2024, 02:04:17 PMIf the 240 designation is dropped from the 26/240 duplex, the existing exit numbers would have to be renumbered to correspond with 26's mileage. I think the 26/240 duplex should remain, although 26 probably should have been signed north-south to eliminate the wrong-way duplex along 26/240.
So here is the fun bit of information, there is no I-26/I-240 duplex, it's just I-240 currently through Asheville. If you pull any NCDOT map, that can be easily confirmed.
I pulled the .pdf of the map and this is not easily confirmed from the Asheville inset that I see on it.
nor is it easily confirmed on google maps, which shows both 26 and 240 shields along the roadway..
Sometime in the past 2 weeks, NCDOT opened up the first two new lanes associated with I-40 widening in Orange County. The westbound lanes of I-40 at Exit 261 near Hillsborough were relocated onto a new bridge section over Old N.C. 86, raising the roadway about 8 feet or so. The new bridge removes the abutment slopes beneath the Interstate, which will allow Old N.C. 86 to be widened to a multilane divided section. The next stage is to replace the old westbound bridge over Old N.C. 86.
My impression is that these newly opened lanes will end up "right down the middle" when the project is complete, which (if true) would mean that it would host part of the new westbound lane and part of the new eastbound lane, plus the tall Jersey barrier down the middle.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 15, 2024, 01:46:53 PMSometime in the past 2 weeks, NCDOT opened up the first two new lanes associated with I-40 widening in Orange County. The westbound lanes of I-40 at Exit 261 near Hillsborough were relocated onto a new bridge section over Old N.C. 86, raising the roadway about 8 feet or so.
The westbound lanes have been on the new bridge for at least half a year. The previous westbound bridge was being demolished in March.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on September 15, 2024, 01:46:53 PMSometime in the past 2 weeks, NCDOT opened up the first two new lanes associated with I-40 widening in Orange County. The westbound lanes of I-40 at Exit 261 near Hillsborough were relocated onto a new bridge section over Old N.C. 86, raising the roadway about 8 feet or so.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on September 15, 2024, 03:10:18 PMThe westbound lanes have been on the new bridge for at least half a year. The previous westbound bridge was being demolished in March.
Ouch, it's even shown on GSV back in July (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0365306,-79.0964851,3a,38.1y,300.96h,83.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb1B8r6zjyT62ri7hePag2A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). I travel this section eastbound frequently, but avoid it westbound most of the time. The last few times would have been in the dark (as it was last night), but I still should have remembered.
Upcoming lane and ramp closures in Morrisville.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-09-19-interstate-40-lanes-closed.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-09-19-interstate-40-lanes-closed.aspx)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/arP8cdQxiGyLNmF58
I see the new Exit 301 guides do carry the I-87 designation, but (still) lack control cities.
Yet EB they at least list Rocky Mount.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EMmBmh5FbSNx9Htt7
Quote from: roadman65 on September 24, 2024, 01:28:42 PMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/arP8cdQxiGyLNmF58
I see the new Exit 301 guides do carry the I-87 designation, but (still) lack control cities.
Yet EB they at least list Rocky Mount.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EMmBmh5FbSNx9Htt7
If you are going west, it is less likely you want to go to Rocky Mount. But whatever, that is just what NCDOT sometimes do.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on September 24, 2024, 04:01:16 PMQuote from: roadman65 on September 24, 2024, 01:28:42 PMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/arP8cdQxiGyLNmF58
I see the new Exit 301 guides do carry the I-87 designation, but (still) lack control cities.
Yet EB they at least list Rocky Mount.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EMmBmh5FbSNx9Htt7
If you are going west, it is less likely you want to go to Rocky Mount. But whatever, that is just what NCDOT sometimes do.
That's my guess, but still should have even Wake Forest, that is the US 64 Business control for WB I-440.
I was noticing that on Historic Aerials it shows the original Cliff Benson Beltline was built already in 1965. It ended at the current Parclo at New Bern Avenue ( Exit 13) with stubs at the end. I also remember that US 64 on old maps showed that US 64 originally used the north and west end of the loop with US 1 always using the alignment of today.
That means plans for a full beltway around Raleigh were on engineers minds even back then, even though I-40's extension to Raleigh came much later. So there must of been other route numbers planned to be given to what is now I-40 on the south side.
It would have been interesting to know now what then were aspiring not that I'm sorry that the current Raleigh freeways are as they are, but how needs change over years and mind sets of the different generations. It just would be wonderful to feel those needs then.
I do know that when I-40 was extended further east of Greensboro the original plan was for it to end at I-95 at Selma/ Smithfield using today's US 70/ I-42 alignment. In fact early 70's General Drafting maps show proposed I-40 over the current US 70 between Garner and Selma. So the extension to Wilmington was a much later thought which explains why all of I-40 east of Benson was opened circa 1990.
I-40 is closed in six places in western North Carolina due to flooding by Hurricane Helene. NCDOT claims it will reopen by 5 pm tomorrow but that seems unlikely in the Pigeon River gorge where at least one lane has collapsed into the river.
https://wlos.com/news/local/interstate-26-40-closed-flooding-mudslide-slide-helene-upward-road-asheville-buncombe-county
Quote from: wdcrft63 on September 27, 2024, 07:42:52 PMI-40 is closed in six places in western North Carolina due to flooding by Hurricane Helene. NCDOT claims it will reopen by 5 pm tomorrow but that seems unlikely in the Pigeon River gorge where at least one lane has collapsed into the river.
https://wlos.com/news/local/interstate-26-40-closed-flooding-mudslide-slide-helene-upward-road-asheville-buncombe-county
I think they'll need to build a bridge here, as they did on that section of US 231 south of Huntsville not long ago.
There goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Quote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
Quote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Meanwhile the West Virginia Turnpike is looking at a short term budget increase due to the diverted traffic.
Quote from: Strider on September 28, 2024, 12:49:19 AMQuote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
I suppose at this point, the ongoing I-26 widening south of I-40 through Hendersonville won't be finished until 2030. It seems like it started many years ago as a way to provide long term jobs for that area.
I guess I-74 will be completed in 2056 instead of 2054.
The retaining wall that failed was built after the same spot collapsed 20 years ago during Hurricane Ivan. They'll have to tear out the median barrier, set portable barrier and get traffic in a one-lane configuration on the westbound side for a while.
There's a photo widely circulating of that collapse but I've also seen some people disputing that photo. I myself have to question its validity due to the volume of traffic that is supposedly stopped just before the closure.
That said, NCDOT themselves (on their incident map) show 3 locations on I-40 northwest of Clyde that are listed as "long term closure", and have reported that one of those (near Milemarker 3) is due to a mudslide.
Here's a photo that NCDOT posted on their Facebook page.
(https://i.imgur.com/dk9cVhe.jpeg)
Ooooofffff.
Quote from: Strider on September 28, 2024, 12:49:19 AMQuote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
A lot of the money would probably come from federal disaster relief aid though.
I wouldn't trust that bank to support even a one-laner on the good carriageway. That will require a full concrete wall and fill.
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on September 29, 2024, 01:08:09 AMQuote from: Strider on September 28, 2024, 12:49:19 AMQuote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
A lot of the money would probably come from federal disaster relief aid though.
I was about to saw that Emergency Recovery funding does not count against a State's federal apportionments.
That said, you do run into a problem with a shortage of contractors, as they're pulled in to do the emergency work.
And, no, contractors from outside the area don't rush in to fill the void. This is due to higher mobilization costs. Rather than bid higher, the inconvenience rules the day.
Quote from: Chris on September 28, 2024, 05:02:25 PMHere's a photo that NCDOT posted on their Facebook page.
(https://i.imgur.com/dk9cVhe.jpeg)
Some dipshit on Twitter claimed it was fake because there wasn't enough time for the DOT to get out there and block it off with a barrier like that. :pan:
Well, who asked him or her?
The awesome power of Mother Nature is truly humbling.
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on September 29, 2024, 01:08:09 AMQuote from: Strider on September 28, 2024, 12:49:19 AMQuote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
A lot of the money would probably come from federal disaster relief aid though.
It definitely will. Plus the donations from various businesses and the federal government, of course.
Quote from: Chris on September 28, 2024, 05:02:25 PMHere's a photo that NCDOT posted on their Facebook page.
(https://i.imgur.com/dk9cVhe.jpeg)
Video of that area. It's not just there, as the road a little closer to the tunnel is also partially gone.
I have on my list to overhaul/update this article (when soccer is done probably) but this gives some additional insight in I-40 in Western NC.
Some of the politics into why it's routed the way it is, how NC moved lanes closer to the river in the 70s and 80s due to the more frequent occurrence of rockslides, and how a rock slide shut down the highway not longer after it opened.
http://www.gribblenation.org/2009/11/i-40-rockslide-uncovers-old-debates-on.html
Quote from: Chris on September 28, 2024, 05:02:25 PMHere's a photo that NCDOT posted on their Facebook page.
(https://i.imgur.com/dk9cVhe.jpeg)
Where is that location?
Quote from: ixnay on September 29, 2024, 09:59:12 PMQuote from: Chris on September 28, 2024, 05:02:25 PMHere's a photo that NCDOT posted on their Facebook page.
(https://i.imgur.com/dk9cVhe.jpeg)
Where is that location?
Here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/bXXFDovb68ExNjk38
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 30, 2024, 07:16:16 AMQuote from: ixnay on September 29, 2024, 09:59:12 PMQuote from: Chris on September 28, 2024, 05:02:25 PMHere's a photo that NCDOT posted on their Facebook page.
(https://i.imgur.com/dk9cVhe.jpeg)
Where is that location?
Here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/bXXFDovb68ExNjk38
Thanks.
Can't believe so many miles of I-40 are closed. I was on that entire stretch as part of a bus group back in 2017. We stayed two nights in Asheville (we visited the Biltmore) before going on to Memphis (we did Graceland) and stopping in Nashville on the way back east, going to the Opry. So what's happening now in WNC resonates with me, having been there. Prayers up for all the affected.
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on September 29, 2024, 01:08:09 AMQuote from: Strider on September 28, 2024, 12:49:19 AMQuote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
A lot of the money would probably come from federal disaster relief aid though.
True. But speaking from personal experience, there's usually a lag in that federal disaster funding actually being delivered.
Quote from: froggie on September 30, 2024, 07:06:09 PMQuote from: RoadMaster09 on September 29, 2024, 01:08:09 AMQuote from: Strider on September 28, 2024, 12:49:19 AMQuote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
A lot of the money would probably come from federal disaster relief aid though.
True. But speaking from personal experience, there's usually a lag in that federal disaster funding actually being delivered.
And, it will still ultimately end up pulling time and resources from other projects even if it doesn't pull funding.
Quote from: froggie on September 30, 2024, 07:06:09 PMQuote from: RoadMaster09 on September 29, 2024, 01:08:09 AMQuote from: Strider on September 28, 2024, 12:49:19 AMQuote from: architect77 on September 28, 2024, 12:21:57 AMThere goes NCDOT's budget for the next 2 years due to all of this new damage.
Yeah, unfortunately the repairs after the hurricane damage becomes priority over future projects. I can see a couple of them being postponed or moved so they can repair I-40, some bridges and other things.
A lot of the money would probably come from federal disaster relief aid though.
True. But speaking from personal experience, there's usually a lag in that federal disaster funding actually being delivered.
We're talking "ER" funds, though. I've yet to experience the "lag" of just putting in the requests for ER reimbursement after a federal declaration is made to affect NY's overall funding, anyway.
Here's some b-roll recorded by NCDOT. It shows that I-40 has also eroded near the tunnel (mile 4)
The mudslide appears to be here (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6177949,-82.2619955,297m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D), right by a truck information station, which apparently consists of a sign that they want the truckers to stop and read before their descent. It apparently also meters traffic. I don't recall seeing anything like that before.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 01, 2024, 12:25:03 PMThe mudslide appears to be here (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6177949,-82.2619955,297m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D), right by a truck information station, which apparently consists of a sign that they want the truckers to stop and read before their descent. It apparently also meters traffic. I don't recall seeing anything like that before.
They are common in the east at the crest of long mountain descents. I-26 has one on both sides of the road at Sam's Gap at the NC/TN state line. I-24 eastbound has a large such area on top of Monteagle Mountain. I believe there is one on I-64 eastbound in WV before the long down grade east of Beckley. There are others on non-freeways in other areas as well, especially in PA.
According to WRAL, NCDOT has cleared the mudslide at Old Fort and opened I-40 eastbound for folks who want to leave the Asheville area in that direction. Westbound traffic is restricted to official vehicles and others helping address the crisis.
Tennessee and North Carolina authorities are informing people that the Google Maps estimate of both I-40 and I-26 reopening in 2025 should be taken as a grain of salt:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/2024/10/02/google-maps-interstate-40-tennessee-north-carolina-border-reopening-date/75481000007/
Could some portions be patched enough to allow two lanes of travel on I-26 & 40? Can falseworks be put in place in areas where they need complete reconstruction?
Should TN Dot restore the left exit to US 70 from I 40
Quote from: PColumbus73 on October 02, 2024, 05:13:43 PMCould some portions be patched enough to allow two lanes of travel on I-26 & 40? Can falseworks be put in place in areas where they need complete reconstruction?
Nothing has been set in a stone yet from NCDOT. They have not announced. Based on the videos and photos, they might have to do complete reconstruction for some areas of I-40 in NC (I don't know about I-26 in Tennessee) since the whole thing will be closed until 2025. They also have to recheck the other areas on I-40 for potential cracks or something like that and fix it.
Until NCDOT finishes their inspection, I don't know what their true plans for that area of I-40 for now.
Quote from: Strider on October 03, 2024, 08:17:59 PMsince the whole thing will be closed until 2025
Take Google's "closed until" with a grain of salt. When roads get destroyed, they have to put SOMETHING in because their system registers a closure without a reopening time as a temporary event caused by an incident and still routes on them in certain circumstances, so they have to make something up in order to get driving directions to work correctly.
Quote from: vdeane on October 03, 2024, 08:21:57 PMQuote from: Strider on October 03, 2024, 08:17:59 PMsince the whole thing will be closed until 2025
Take Google's "closed until" with a grain of salt. When roads get destroyed, they have to put SOMETHING in because their system registers a closure without a reopening time as a temporary event caused by an incident and still routes on them in certain circumstances, so they have to make something up in order to get driving directions to work correctly.
I'm merely saying 2025 to be safe, just like what Google said. It is better than saying the exact date. Knowing NCDOT, they will get I-40 open in no time as it is the #1 priority along with I-26, US and NC routes in that area to be cleaned up and fixed.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on October 03, 2024, 07:45:44 PMShould TN Dot restore the left exit to US 70 from I 40
Wrong thread.
The section at MM 3 where the eastbound lanes got washed into the river will likely need massive work to get 4 lanes back open. I think they could get 2 lanes open there in the interim after checking it over, but that will be very long term. I can't see how they could put I-40 back where it is without a viaduct or bridge, since the entire embankment was eroded and washed into the Pigeon River. The alternative option would be to go the other way, blast two new lanes into the mountain (tunnel or significant rock cuts) and use the pre-Helene westbound lanes as the new eastbound lanes.
Is the I-26 damage north of Asheville as severe as what has happened to I-40? Since that section of I-40 near the TN line has had numerous closures over the years, the default "detour" route for I-40 closures from the west has been I-26 to I-81.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on October 04, 2024, 06:16:23 AMIs the I-26 damage north of Asheville as severe as what has happened to I-40? Since that section of I-40 near the TN line has had numerous closures over the years, the default "detour" route for I-40 closures from the west has been I-26 to I-81.
Simple answer, yes in TN. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?msg=2944626
I saw that some of the bridges on I-26 were destroyed, I can't tell for sure, but some of the images looked to be near Exit 40, maybe Exit 43. I don't think I've seen anything regarding landslides on I-26, assuming it's just the bridges that are destroyed, I-26 might be able to be repaired faster than I-40.
In the long term, I-40 might need a new alignment. I don't know the full history, but from what I understand, slides have been a problem on I-40 for a long time.
As to I-26 was it a bridge or a berm /dump that washed out?
It sounds like that both Interstates will be closed for some time, months to up to a year. But it does appear that I-26 will be likely be reopened before I-40. I figure that after that point, sections of I-26 and I-81 will be designated as "Temporary" or "Detour" I-40, just to patch the discontinuity in a transcontinental Interstate highway.
If I-40 has to be relocated or tunneled, or even if a viaduct is built over the east side of the river to replace the lost roadbed, it could be several years before I-40 is reopened in that area. In the near term, there are not other good alternatives to either I-40 or I-26 north and west of Asheville.
US 25-70 is not that bad for car traffic...
I can't see that roadway working as an official detour for Interstate-level traffic with heavy truck volumes, although it would likely end up carrying higher volumes than normal, especially as local traffic uses it. BTW, was US 25/70 also damaged from the storm?
I figure the immediate "official" detour will be I-77 to I-81 while I-26 is closed, which would include the SW corner of Virgina on the route.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on October 04, 2024, 02:08:32 PMI can't see that roadway working as an official detour for Interstate-level traffic with heavy truck volumes, although it would likely end up carrying higher volumes than normal, especially as local traffic uses it. BTW, was US 25/70 also damaged from the storm?
I figure the immediate "official" detour will be I-77 to I-81 while I-26 is closed, which would include the SW corner of Virgina on the route.
I would agree. For I-40, and I-26, I-77 & 81 would be the least out of the way.
Atlanta and Wytheville might be dealing with the worst of any detour congestion.
Looks like we already have trucks attempting to use Tail of the Dragon and Newfound Gap Rd:
https://autos.yahoo.com/semi-truck-bottoms-tail-dragon-183000662.html
https://x.com/GreatSmokyNPS/status/1841487259024921021
Quote from: thenetwork on October 02, 2024, 04:14:52 PMTennessee and North Carolina authorities are informing people that the Google Maps estimate of both I-40 and I-26 reopening in 2025 should be taken as a grain of salt:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/2024/10/02/google-maps-interstate-40-tennessee-north-carolina-border-reopening-date/75481000007/
Google Maps now says I-40 between TN and US 276 will reopen in 2028.
I expect a full rebuild of much of that stretch, using either a viaduct like I-70 Glenwood Canyon or a reinforced embankment like US-22 Juniata (https://maps.app.goo.gl/9DKHSW2fUshJgENS8). Probably at least a 3-4 year project.
Quote from: Hunty2022 on October 05, 2024, 11:30:51 AMQuote from: thenetwork on October 02, 2024, 04:14:52 PMTennessee and North Carolina authorities are informing people that the Google Maps estimate of both I-40 and I-26 reopening in 2025 should be taken as a grain of salt:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/2024/10/02/google-maps-interstate-40-tennessee-north-carolina-border-reopening-date/75481000007/
Google Maps now says I-40 between TN and US 276 will reopen in 2028.
IMO that is much more realistic.
In Switzerland, A13 suffered a catastrophic washout this summer, as a flash flood caused the river to move its riverbed into the four lane highway.
(https://www.srf.ch/static/cms/images/960w/962a60.jpg)
They managed to have it open with 2 lanes within 13 days and a final repair with four lanes was open after 2.5 months.
(https://i.imgur.com/RxeFjzQ.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h2E1XvE.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NeBq5Lv.jpeg)
I don't want to imply that restoring I-40 can be done equally fast, but maybe it doesn't need to take until 2028.
Quote from: Chris on October 05, 2024, 05:21:04 PMIn Switzerland, A13 suffered a catastrophic washout this summer, as a flash flood caused the river to move its riverbed into the four lane highway.
(https://www.srf.ch/static/cms/images/960w/962a60.jpg)
They managed to have it open with 2 lanes within 13 days and a final repair with four lanes was open after 2.5 months.
(https://i.imgur.com/RxeFjzQ.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h2E1XvE.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NeBq5Lv.jpeg)
I don't want to imply that restoring I-40 can be done equally fast, but maybe it doesn't need to take until 2028.
Problem here is that A13 looks like it was only a couple of feet above that river. I would say I-40 is like 5x times higher up from the river. Much harder to deal with, plus the WB lanes were partially undermined as well (even though the asphalt was still in tact).
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on October 04, 2024, 10:20:27 AMIt sounds like that both Interstates will be closed for some time, months to up to a year. But it does appear that I-26 will be likely be reopened before I-40. I figure that after that point, sections of I-26 and I-81 will be designated as "Temporary" or "Detour" I-40, just to patch the discontinuity in a transcontinental Interstate highway.
If I-40 has to be relocated or tunneled, or even if a viaduct is built over the east side of the river to replace the lost roadbed, it could be several years before I-40 is reopened in that area. In the near term, there are not other good alternatives to either I-40 or I-26 north and west of Asheville.
US 25-US 70 (going to Newport, TN) is one of the alternatives for I-40 and I-26 traffic but you're right, it isn't a good alternative as it is 2 lanes with some hairpin turns in extremely western NC and eastern Tennessee.
NC 208, TN 70 and US-11E (Asheville Highway) is the other alternative (mostly for I-26 traffic) that branches off US 25-70 going to Greeneville, TN. And that road already seen heavy traffic. It isn't a good alternative either.
Now, if those routes are 4 laned, they can make good alternatives. Maybe both NCDOT and TDOT will consider widening those roads in the distant future just in case situations close both I-40 and I-26 again.
NC 208 closely follows Big Laurel Creek and Shelton Laurel Creek between its junction with 25/70 and its junction with NC 212. Simply put, that section is not a candidate for widening of any description.
From 212 JCT to the TN State Line is theoretically doable, but...no. No way in hell.
Quote from: BlueRidge on October 06, 2024, 09:08:39 PMNC 208 closely follows Big Laurel Creek and Shelton Laurel Creek between its junction with 25/70 and its junction with NC 212. Simply put, that section is not a candidate for widening of any description.
From 212 JCT to the TN State Line is theoretically doable, but...no. No way in hell.
You can always blast the rocks on the right side or build a bypass. Either way, I don't see NCDOT doing anything on that area, but I will not be surprised if they do.
Quote from: Strider on October 06, 2024, 10:35:24 AMQuote from: RoadWarrior56 on October 04, 2024, 10:20:27 AMIt sounds like that both Interstates will be closed for some time, months to up to a year. But it does appear that I-26 will be likely be reopened before I-40. I figure that after that point, sections of I-26 and I-81 will be designated as "Temporary" or "Detour" I-40, just to patch the discontinuity in a transcontinental Interstate highway.
If I-40 has to be relocated or tunneled, or even if a viaduct is built over the east side of the river to replace the lost roadbed, it could be several years before I-40 is reopened in that area. In the near term, there are not other good alternatives to either I-40 or I-26 north and west of Asheville.
US 25-US 70 (going to Newport, TN) is one of the alternatives for I-40 and I-26 traffic but you're right, it isn't a good alternative as it is 2 lanes with some hairpin turns in extremely western NC and eastern Tennessee.
NC 208, TN 70 and US-11E (Asheville Highway) is the other alternative (mostly for I-26 traffic) that branches off US 25-70 going to Greeneville, TN. And that road already seen heavy traffic. It isn't a good alternative either.
Now, if those routes are 4 laned, they can make good alternatives. Maybe both NCDOT and TDOT will consider widening those roads in the distant future just in case situations close both I-40 and I-26 again.
Are these alternate routes currently open to traffic? And what about US 441? Is that a viable route for I-40 traffic?
It sure doesn't look to me like there are many good routes for N/S thru and truck traffic between I-75 and I-77 until either I-26 or I-40 is able to be reconstructed/reopened, but maybe I'm missing something.
Longterm, US 19E isn't too bad for an I-26 detour. I would also consider old US 23 to get around the Nolichucky bridge instead of running all over the mountains.
No way no how on US 129, US 441, or US 19W if you are interested in making any time at all or are in a truck.
Quote from: Mapmikey on October 08, 2024, 08:35:30 PMLongterm, US 19E isn't too bad for an I-26 detour. I would also consider old US 23 to get around the Nolichucky bridge instead of running all over the mountains.
No way no how on US 129, US 441, or US 19W if you are interested in making any time at all or are in a truck.
Folks living in our near the NC mountains might need an alternate route through the Smokies, but for anyone living at a distance there's no problem at all. Winston-Salem to Knoxville via US 52/I-77/I-81 is less than 20 miles longer than the I-40 mileage and without the Pigeon River Gorge the driving times are even closer.
We already know of the I-77/I-81 detour for I-40, but for I-26, maybe I-385, I-85, I-285, I-75 and I-81 would also be another great way to go around it. While Atlanta will get its usual heavy traffic spots augmented by the truck ban inside the Perimeter, the other highways should be smooth sailing.
Quote from: Henry on October 08, 2024, 11:14:15 PMWe already know of the I-77/I-81 detour for I-40, but for I-26, maybe I-385, I-85, I-285, I-75 and I-81 would also be another great way to go around it. While Atlanta will get its usual heavy traffic spots augmented by the truck ban inside the Perimeter, the other highways should be smooth sailing.
I would guess long haul traffic using I-26 from Charleston or I-95 would likely be trying to reach Nashville / bypass Atlanta to get to I-40, or I-75. A mid-to-long term detour for I-26 would probably involve I-20, 285, 75 (or 24)
I looked at the October, 2025 reopening date as a "minimum" date pending a full evaluation by the transportation departments. Even then, it may not be "fully reopen" with restrictuins, as probably some sections would be single lanes in each direction while reconstruction is taking place.
Looks to be a nice area to drive through.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on October 08, 2024, 10:05:30 PMFolks living in our near the NC mountains might need an alternate route through the Smokies, but for anyone living at a distance there's no problem at all. Winston-Salem to Knoxville via US 52/I-77/I-81 is less than 20 miles longer than the I-40 mileage and without the Pigeon River Gorge the driving times are even closer.
I-77/I-81 works well for traffic from points east, but it's the north/south traffic that's the bigger issue, particularly getting across the Smokies from northern SC or really anywhere between Atlanta and Charlotte.
Greenville, SC to Knoxville right now uses US 74/US 441 to get around the I-40 closure, but trucks aren't allowed on that route and it's very slow through Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge even on a good day.
Quote from: webny99 on October 08, 2024, 07:49:29 PMQuote from: Strider on October 06, 2024, 10:35:24 AMQuote from: RoadWarrior56 on October 04, 2024, 10:20:27 AMIt sounds like that both Interstates will be closed for some time, months to up to a year. But it does appear that I-26 will be likely be reopened before I-40. I figure that after that point, sections of I-26 and I-81 will be designated as "Temporary" or "Detour" I-40, just to patch the discontinuity in a transcontinental Interstate highway.
If I-40 has to be relocated or tunneled, or even if a viaduct is built over the east side of the river to replace the lost roadbed, it could be several years before I-40 is reopened in that area. In the near term, there are not other good alternatives to either I-40 or I-26 north and west of Asheville.
US 25-US 70 (going to Newport, TN) is one of the alternatives for I-40 and I-26 traffic but you're right, it isn't a good alternative as it is 2 lanes with some hairpin turns in extremely western NC and eastern Tennessee.
NC 208, TN 70 and US-11E (Asheville Highway) is the other alternative (mostly for I-26 traffic) that branches off US 25-70 going to Greeneville, TN. And that road already seen heavy traffic. It isn't a good alternative either.
Now, if those routes are 4 laned, they can make good alternatives. Maybe both NCDOT and TDOT will consider widening those roads in the distant future just in case situations close both I-40 and I-26 again.
Are these alternate routes currently open to traffic? And what about US 441? Is that a viable route for I-40 traffic?
It sure doesn't look to me like there are many good routes for N/S thru and truck traffic between I-75 and I-77 until either I-26 or I-40 is able to be reconstructed/reopened, but maybe I'm missing something.
Yes, US-25/US-70 and NC 208 road are open. Traffic is currently using those alternatives.
US-441 is open, but trucks and commercial vehicles can't use that road through The Great Smoky Mountains National Park. (They're already being told to turn around by NPS in that area). I think US-441 is a bit too far away to be an alternative for I-40 traffic though.
WLOS reports that NCDOT has let a contract for temporary shoring (soil nailing) to stabilize the westbound lanes. This will hopefully be done by the beginning of January. "About the time this shoring up operation wraps up, we should be very far along on plans for the long-term repairs on I-40 in the gorge." So, probably going to a one-lane configuration sometime in the winter.
How extensive is the damage? DriveNC shows an area near MM 4 and a section between Exits 66-73. MM 4, I would guess, being where the eastbound lanes collapsed into the river, but is the area between 66-73 just landslides?
Another I-40 closure in NC, but this time in Winston-Salem due to an overturned truck and oil spill, causing delays in excess of 2 hours:
https://abc45.com/news/local/i-40-west-lanes-closed-from-overturned-tractor-trailer-in-winston-salem-traffic-crash-investigation-active-northcarolina
Quote from: PColumbus73 on October 10, 2024, 08:32:46 AMHow extensive is the damage? DriveNC shows an area near MM 4 and a section between Exits 66-73. MM 4, I would guess, being where the eastbound lanes collapsed into the river, but is the area between 66-73 just landslides?
For the most part, yes, "just" mudslides. One of the pictures most shown/shared is one at the Eastern Continental Divide at the top of the hill going WB from Old Fort. Google Maps Link (https://maps.app.goo.gl/Y9oTBg3URawmaNg16)
The "Truck Weigh Station" is actually a mandatory stop for trucks that are about to go down the mountain, warning about brakes and showing where the runaway truck ramps are located.
A friend who lives just north of Asheville waited it out until 40 EB was cleared, and she made it to her mother's home in Chapel Hill earlier this week. So I-40 is open east of Asheville, not that people not associated with rescue efforts show venture out towards Western North Carolina.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on October 08, 2024, 10:05:30 PMQuote from: Mapmikey on October 08, 2024, 08:35:30 PMLongterm, US 19E isn't too bad for an I-26 detour. I would also consider old US 23 to get around the Nolichucky bridge instead of running all over the mountains.
No way no how on US 129, US 441, or US 19W if you are interested in making any time at all or are in a truck.
Folks living in our near the NC mountains might need an alternate route through the Smokies, but for anyone living at a distance there's no problem at all. Winston-Salem to Knoxville via US 52/I-77/I-81 is less than 20 miles longer than the I-40 mileage and without the Pigeon River Gorge the driving times are even closer.
In the Fictional folder, a bit of a discussion is on about extending I-24 through (via US 74).
I took a deeper dive into the history of Interstate 40 through North Carolina's Pigeon River Gorge. Why and how it was routed through the area. Past closures and issues. The debate between the Pigeon and French Broad Rivers for routing the highway - and a chief engineer of the then-newly formed NC 14th state highway division was able to work with Tennessee to move the Asheville-Knoxville (eventually I-40) section of the Interstate Highway System to the Pigeon River Gorge.
Lots more in the article:
https://www.gribblenation.org/2024/10/interstate-40s-tumultuous-ride-through.html
A photo tour of I-40 from Exit 299 (Person St/Hammond Rd) to NC 210 (Exit 319) in both directions from 10/12/2024: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBPEjp
This is a little old (October 16th) but found the Article summarize current state of I-40 very well and references plan to have I-40 partial Open in January 2025.
https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/ncdot-selects-contractor-to-begin-making-repairs-on-hurricane-damaged-interstate-40/66177 (https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/ncdot-selects-contractor-to-begin-making-repairs-on-hurricane-damaged-interstate-40/66177)
If they're intent on keeping I-40 in the Pigeon River, maybe they should consider elevating the whole thing like the H3 in Hawaii, or I-90 through Wallace, ID. I know we're talking about a much longer portion of highway but given the amount of issues they've had and now having to rebuild half of it from Helene, maybe it would be a more permanent solution.
NCDOT thinks they can open 2 lanes of traffic on I-40 between NC and TN by New Year's Day (1/1/25):
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-11-05-i-40-gorge-two-lanes.aspx
Quote from: bob7374 on November 05, 2024, 06:04:03 PMNCDOT thinks they can open 2 lanes of traffic on I-40 between NC and TN by New Year's Day (1/1/25):
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-11-05-i-40-gorge-two-lanes.aspx
Billions of dollars to simply repair the section for long term!? Holy moly
Nothing comes cheap nowadays.
Nothing new here, but some recent footage of the I-40 repairs along the Pigeon River. A one year
contract (https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Division%2014%20Letting/12%2010%202024/DN12155192%20PROPOSAL.pdf) for towing and recovery was just awarded with a start date of January 6, so I think the New Year's Day opening will be missed by a few days. That contract may be extended for two additional one year periods. As they said in the video, "that bottleneck will be there for some time to come."
Another slide on I-40 in the Pigeon River Gorge has delayed 2-lane opening indefinitely:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-12-20-i-40-gorge-delay.aspx
I saw this video from PBS. Towards the end, the narrator claims permanent repairs are going to exceed $50 billion. Am I hearing that right? Maybe they just need to build a tunnel. But 50 billion can't be right.
Quote from: Mapmikey on October 04, 2024, 11:21:52 AMUS 25-70 is not that bad for car traffic...
Sorry for bumping an old post... How is US 25-70 for trucks? Is it serviceable or are they better off taking the longer I-26 to I-81?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 02, 2025, 09:11:38 PMI saw this video from PBS. Towards the end, the narrator claims permanent repairs are going to exceed $50 billion. Am I hearing that right? Maybe they just need to build a tunnel. But 50 billion can't be right.
It sounded to me to be for repairs for more in the surrounding area than just I-40. $50 billion might be enough for a complete new terrain replacement.
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 02, 2025, 10:24:52 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on January 02, 2025, 09:11:38 PMI saw this video from PBS. Towards the end, the narrator claims permanent repairs are going to exceed $50 billion. Am I hearing that right? Maybe they just need to build a tunnel. But 50 billion can't be right.
It sounded to me to be for repairs for more in the surrounding area than just I-40. $50 billion might be enough for a complete new terrain replacement.
For how much NCDOT builds new terrain alignments with a $5 billion annual budget I can barely fathom what $50 billion would build. They're already on sandbox mode, how far could they go?
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on December 13, 2024, 07:42:57 AMNothing new here, but some recent footage of the I-40 repairs along the Pigeon River. A one year contract (https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Division%2014%20Letting/12%2010%202024/DN12155192%20PROPOSAL.pdf) for towing and recovery was just awarded with a start date of January 6, so I think the New Year's Day opening will be missed by a few days. That contract may be extended for two additional one year periods. As they said in the video, "that bottleneck will be there for some time to come."
All that required terrain "pinning" the engineer was referring to is exactly why the original road assessment
*didn't* want to use Pigeon Gorge. The report noted that the slope quality in this gorge was poor with a mix of rock and soil that was too malleable and subject to rock slides and other movement.
Based on how our European highway departments deal with these kinds of washouts....they clear out all of the loose rock and soil and build a reinforced concrete wall into the river/creek to force the water movement away. Then fill the remaining area inside the wall with a mix of gravel types and sealers with drainage included.
Judging on how much permit grief CSX is getting to rebuild the Nolichucky Bridge, I can't help but wonder if NCDOT will take a shortcut and not be so extensive in its remediation. Soil nailing and shotcrete won't mean much if they cant get the water redirected farther away from the embankment.
Forgive me somehow I missed that video was posted here.
Quote from: edwaleni on January 02, 2025, 11:21:40 PMQuote from: cowboy_wilhelm on December 13, 2024, 07:42:57 AMNothing new here, but some recent footage of the I-40 repairs along the Pigeon River. A one year contract (https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Division%2014%20Letting/12%2010%202024/DN12155192%20PROPOSAL.pdf) for towing and recovery was just awarded with a start date of January 6, so I think the New Year's Day opening will be missed by a few days. That contract may be extended for two additional one year periods. As they said in the video, "that bottleneck will be there for some time to come."
All that required terrain "pinning" the engineer was referring to is exactly why the original road assessment *didn't* want to use Pigeon Gorge. The report noted that the slope quality in this gorge was poor with a mix of rock and soil that was too malleable and subject to rock slides and other movement.
Based on how our European highway departments deal with these kinds of washouts....they clear out all of the loose rock and soil and build a reinforced concrete wall into the river/creek to force the water movement away. Then fill the remaining area inside the wall with a mix of gravel types and sealers with drainage included.
Judging on how much permit grief CSX is getting to rebuild the Nolichucky Bridge, I can't help but wonder if NCDOT will take a shortcut and not be so extensive in its remediation. Soil nailing and shotcrete won't mean much if they cant get the water redirected farther away from the embankment.
Sounds like they would get more for their money if they rebuilt it as an elevated highway, think the Linn Cove Viaduct or the H3 in Hawaii.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 03, 2025, 08:27:54 AMSounds like they would get more for their money if they rebuilt it as an elevated highway, think the Linn Cove Viaduct or the H3 in Hawaii.
Neither were cheap and took many years to complete.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on January 04, 2025, 04:16:26 PMQuote from: PColumbus73 on January 03, 2025, 08:27:54 AMSounds like they would get more for their money if they rebuilt it as an elevated highway, think the Linn Cove Viaduct or the H3 in Hawaii.
Neither were cheap and took many years to complete.
Good infrastructure is not cheap and doesn't get completed quickly.
Google Earth (the stand-alone computer program, not the satellite view in the browser version of Google Maps) has updated satellite imagery of the Pigeon River Gorge, dated November 25, 2024.
It provides a good view of the extent of the damage, as most press photos appear to be from only one of the locations.
There 17 sections where I-40 collapsed into the river. 5 on the Tennessee side, and 12 on the North Carolina side.
These are the ones on the North Carolina side:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZDQZcL1.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IE1W7j6.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tkAkkYi.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tIfPmWR.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/irU0X9E.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0EllBm2.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UaiPjXW.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JQPKyo6.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LyDz0Zg.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yJJkphq.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XSZmEre.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fg9J7HU.jpeg)
FWIW... a time lapse video taken a few weeks before Helene:
WLOS reports that repairs should be finished in mid-February, but reopening can't occur until a full geotechnical assessment is completed to ensure the roadway is safe. The current estimate is reopening sometime in the spring.
WLOS now reports I-40 will reopen March 1. The site was visited by USDOT Sec. Duffy, Senator Tillis, U.S. representatives Edwards and Moore, Governor Stein, NCDOT Sec. Hopkins, and others on Feb. 10.
https://wlos.com/news/local/us-secretary-transportation-sean-duffy-tours-interstate-40-damaged-helene-tennessee-state-line-hurricane-recovery-repair-haywood-county-north-carolina#
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on February 10, 2025, 05:02:13 PMWLOS now reports I-40 will reopen March 1. The site was visited by USDOT Sec. Duffy, Senator Tillis, U.S. representatives Edwards and Moore, Governor Stein, NCDOT Sec. Hopkins, and others on Feb. 10.
https://wlos.com/news/local/us-secretary-transportation-sean-duffy-tours-interstate-40-damaged-helene-tennessee-state-line-hurricane-recovery-repair-haywood-county-north-carolina#
Not completely...
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 05:56:34 PMQuote from: cowboy_wilhelm on February 10, 2025, 05:02:13 PMWLOS now reports I-40 will reopen March 1. The site was visited by USDOT Sec. Duffy, Senator Tillis, U.S. representatives Edwards and Moore, Governor Stein, NCDOT Sec. Hopkins, and others on Feb. 10.
https://wlos.com/news/local/us-secretary-transportation-sean-duffy-tours-interstate-40-damaged-helene-tennessee-state-line-hurricane-recovery-repair-haywood-county-north-carolina#
Not completely...
Still better than what we have now.
I saw a FB post earlier that explained that the two lane stretch will run from 5 miles into Tennessee up to Exit 7 in North Carolina. So it will be one lane each direction through the WB tunnel at approx. MM 4, which to my knowledge has not occurred during the various lane closures due to road damage over the years.
Also the ongoing road work between Exits 15 and 20 replacing the Pigeon River crossing is still in place. Probably involves resurfacing in addition to the bridge replacement. NCDOT has generally tried to keep the pavement through the Gorge in pretty decent shape, or at least slightly better than TDOT has kept their much shorter stretch in the area.
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 11, 2025, 06:35:37 AMI saw a FB post earlier that explained that the two lane stretch will run from 5 miles into Tennessee up to Exit 7 in North Carolina. So it will be one lane each direction through the WB tunnel at approx. MM 4, which to my knowledge has not occurred during the various lane closures due to road damage over the years.
Also the ongoing road work between Exits 15 and 20 replacing the Pigeon River crossing is still in place. Probably involves resurfacing in addition to the bridge replacement. NCDOT has generally tried to keep the pavement through the Gorge in pretty decent shape, or at least slightly better than TDOT has kept their much shorter stretch in the area.
Here's the official NCDOT press release:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-02-11-i-40-gorge-open.aspx
A $75 million contract has been awarded for what I am assuming are permanent repairs to I-40 from the Tennessee line to MM 5. Work should be completed in 2027.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Central%20Letting/02-14-2025%20Central%20Letting/HAYWOOD%20C205077.pdf
https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Central%20Letting/02-14-2025%20Central%20Letting/Item%20C%20250214.pdf
https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Central%20Letting/02-14-2025%20Central%20Letting/Bid%20Tabs%20250214.pdf
I-40 to REOPEN TODAY (March 1st)!!!!!!
Speed limit will be capped @ 35mph.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 01, 2025, 03:51:15 AMI-40 to REOPEN TODAY (March 1st)!!!!!!
Speed limit will be capped @ 35mph.
So basically, a temporary Super-2?
This is just a curiosity question what would be the economics of two single direction lanes alternating with a more normal speed limit?
It would require a trail car. Trail as opposed to pilot. There would be a flagger at each end (probably more gate attendants) They would open the gate at one end and close it when it was empty or after a set time. The trail car follows the last car and stays in the back of all the cars. When it reaches the other end repeat the process the opposite direction.
Quote from: bwana39 on March 06, 2025, 05:00:55 PMThis is just a curiosity question what would be the economics of two single direction lanes alternating with a more normal speed limit?
It would require a trail car. Trail as opposed to pilot. There would be a flagger at each end (probably more gate attendants) They would open the gate at one end and close it when it was empty or after a set time. The trail car follows the last car and stays in the back of all the cars. When it reaches the other end repeat the process the opposite direction.
I would think that one lane each way open 100% of the time at 35 mph would be better than two lanes in alternating directions at 45 mph (probably don't want the full 55 mph in a continuing work zone) that are only open about 40% of the time for each direction (as once the entrance is closed, there's no cars entering the circuit for 3ish minutes (I don't know how long this stretch would be)). More lost time in this scenario, it's not like this stretch of 40 (20k AADT) has the volume of 40 east of Asheville (50k AADT) or anything.
Quote from: bwana39 on March 06, 2025, 05:00:55 PMThis is just a curiosity question what would be the economics of two single direction lanes alternating with a more normal speed limit?
It would require a trail car. Trail as opposed to pilot. There would be a flagger at each end (probably more gate attendants) They would open the gate at one end and close it when it was empty or after a set time. The trail car follows the last car and stays in the back of all the cars. When it reaches the other end repeat the process the opposite direction.
What exactly is the benefit of doing this?
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 07, 2025, 01:25:24 AMQuote from: bwana39 on March 06, 2025, 05:00:55 PMThis is just a curiosity question what would be the economics of two single direction lanes alternating with a more normal speed limit?
It would require a trail car. Trail as opposed to pilot. There would be a flagger at each end (probably more gate attendants) They would open the gate at one end and close it when it was empty or after a set time. The trail car follows the last car and stays in the back of all the cars. When it reaches the other end repeat the process the opposite direction.
What exactly is the benefit of doing this?
Agreed with
@I-55, One lane is in both directions is better than alternating two lanes. It won't save much time when you have to hold one direction of traffic for however long. Both I-26 and 40 would basically be a long-term construction zone.
Looks like the new DDI at Airport Blvd. near RDU will open next week.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-03-06-airport-boulevard-i-40.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-03-06-airport-boulevard-i-40.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on March 07, 2025, 12:12:57 PMLooks like the new DDI at Airport Blvd. near RDU will open next week.
I didn't venture out that way today, but news reports said that the Conversion was delayed due to problems with potholes on-I-40. IIRC, that section was resurfaced by the contractor as part of the interchange project. No word on a new date for the conversion.
https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/wake-county-news/diverging-diamond-interchange-near-rdu-delayed-after-major-pothole-conundrum-on-i-40/
Quote from: jdunlop on March 10, 2025, 10:04:03 PMQuote from: LM117 on March 07, 2025, 12:12:57 PMLooks like the new DDI at Airport Blvd. near RDU will open next week.
I didn't venture out that way today, but news reports said that the Conversion was delayed due to problems with potholes on-I-40. IIRC, that section was resurfaced by the contractor as part of the interchange project. No word on a new date for the conversion.
https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/wake-county-news/diverging-diamond-interchange-near-rdu-delayed-after-major-pothole-conundrum-on-i-40/
An update on that press release I posted says that the DDI will open Monday.
As part of the I-40 widening project in Orange County, NCDOT is closing the ramp from I-85 South to I-40 East for 3 months starting this Sunday, June 1:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-05-29-ramp-closure-orange-county.aspx
NCDOT has announced they have found sites that will be used to provide rock for the reconstruction of I-40 through the Pigeon River Gorge:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-06-03-ncdot-selects-sites-rebuild-I-40-helene.aspx
Guess that ends any official thoughts of relocating the interstate through the area, for now.
Quote from: bob7374 on June 04, 2025, 11:42:05 AMNCDOT has announced they have found sites that will be used to provide rock for the reconstruction of I-40 through the Pigeon River Gorge:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-06-03-ncdot-selects-sites-rebuild-I-40-helene.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-06-03-ncdot-selects-sites-rebuild-I-40-helene.aspx)
Guess that ends any official thoughts of relocating the interstate through the area, for now.
Wonder if they checked the top of Douglas Lake, which the Pigeon River eventually flows into just below Newport, TN. Could probably use a good dredging in that area to remove the rubble that used to be in the gorge in the first place.
The migration of I 40 WB traffic to the new bridges over 74 begins Friday at 9PM
This is really a TN item, but it closes the Helene damaged section in NC again.
I-40 rockslide may take at least 2 weeks to repair, Tennessee officials say (https://wlos.com/news/local/interstate-40-remains-closed-flooding-rock-slide-crews-asses-impacts-detour-reopen-timeline-tennessee-department-transportation-north-carolina-cocke-county-mark-nagi-tdot)
Quote from: 74/171FAN on June 19, 2025, 07:38:49 PMThis is really a TN item, but it closes the Helene damaged section in NC again.
I-40 rockslide may take at least 2 weeks to repair, Tennessee officials say (https://wlos.com/news/local/interstate-40-remains-closed-flooding-rock-slide-crews-asses-impacts-detour-reopen-timeline-tennessee-department-transportation-north-carolina-cocke-county-mark-nagi-tdot)
Just in time for Summer... lovely X-(
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on June 19, 2025, 08:55:34 PMQuote from: 74/171FAN on June 19, 2025, 07:38:49 PMThis is really a TN item, but it closes the Helene damaged section in NC again.
I-40 rockslide may take at least 2 weeks to repair, Tennessee officials say (https://wlos.com/news/local/interstate-40-remains-closed-flooding-rock-slide-crews-asses-impacts-detour-reopen-timeline-tennessee-department-transportation-north-carolina-cocke-county-mark-nagi-tdot)
Just in time for Summer... lovely X-(
And NCDOT is not communicating with itself again in regards to detour information. They tell drivers east of Winston-Salem heading for Tennessee to use US 421 North to US 52 North to Exit 140, I-74 West apparently forgetting about the NC 74 Winston-Salem Northern Beltway and that they recently renumbered all the exits on US 52, so that I-74 is now Exit 18.
I-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
Quote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
The best we might be able to do is to blast mountains and relocate the most vulnerable sections within the valley, or to build onto pillars in some sections.
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
Might want to remember who you're talking to...
We think of tunnels as being hyper expensive. I am not sure in this case, it might not be comparative in price with a more long-term durability and usability. Rerouting is not totally off the table for discussion.
There seems to be some political support for not rebuilding the highway where it currently is... I wouldn't completely dismiss this prospect. Look at one of the mountain sections of the A1 in Italy.
Just for fun... shortened and went from near the rest area/welcome center since the upper portion near the lake isn't that bad.
New alignment approximately 3.7 miles. About 4.3 miles shorter than through the gorge.
East bridge:
1,150 feet long
380 feet high
Tunnel:
3 miles long
Slope = 4.23%
(Laurel Creek Bridge on I-26 in Madison County has around a 5% slope.)
Cost: Easily $5 billion
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54606324664_accf521e60_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54606340419_ca8b5d5b77_b.jpg)
Quote from: Rothman on June 22, 2025, 12:44:12 AMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
Might want to remember who you're talking to...
And I live in NC....so I stand with what I said.
Quote from: bwana39 on June 22, 2025, 09:28:10 AMWe think of tunnels as being hyper expensive. I am not sure in this case, it might not be comparative in price with a more long-term durability and usability. Rerouting is not totally off the table for discussion.
It is. NCDOT is rebuilding the same section of I-40 says it all.
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:16:38 PMQuote from: Rothman on June 22, 2025, 12:44:12 AMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
Might want to remember who you're talking to...
And I live in NC....so I stand with what I said.
And so will he.
Quote from: Rothman on June 22, 2025, 12:22:15 PMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:16:38 PMQuote from: Rothman on June 22, 2025, 12:44:12 AMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
Might want to remember who you're talking to...
And I live in NC....so I stand with what I said.
And so will he.
Whatever makes you sleep good at night.
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:23:51 PMQuote from: Rothman on June 22, 2025, 12:22:15 PMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:16:38 PMQuote from: Rothman on June 22, 2025, 12:44:12 AMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGVLQDc4/I-40-WNC-Relocation.jpg)
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
Might want to remember who you're talking to...
And I live in NC....so I stand with what I said.
And so will he.
Whatever makes you sleep good at night.
Something tells me that you aren't understanding what I've written.
I think rebuilding on majority viaducts, similar to I-70 through the Rockies or the H3, might be better for long term resilience.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on June 22, 2025, 01:43:56 PMI think rebuilding on majority viaducts, similar to I-70 through the Rockies or the H3, might be better for long term resilience.
The Rockies are different in compared to the Appalachians. Interstate H-3 was one of the most expensive builds. That rerouting discussions should be moved to fictional highways as there has been no actual discussions related to that.
Besides, viaducts and tunnels isn't always the solution. A few years ago, I-70 viaduct in Glenwood Canyon was flooded due to excessive rain. That area is also prone to rock slides and flooding. Last year, I-H3 also flooded. How many discussions were there about rerouting these roads? Nothing.
Wyoming wanted to reroute I-80 between Rawlins and Laramie due to excessive wrecks along the current I-80 routing during Winter/Blizzard season (if I am correct, they close that section of I-80 during excessive winter weather), but didn't proceed with it because of it costs between $6 billion and $12 billion... and there's no money.
So sometimes keeping current routes is the best bet even if that means fixing it all over again.
Would CA-1 near Big Sur be a good comparison to the situation on I-40, or. Is it like comparing apples to oranges given the extreme logistical challenges of reconstruction on CA-1?
Yeah, CA-1's situation in the Big Sur region is similar (but they get hit by rockslides, waves from the ocean very often). They're doing an emergency repair on the exact location part of the road that was damaged. They don't plan on moving CA-1 to another location.
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 07:10:19 PMYeah, CA-1's situation in the Big Sur region is similar (but they get hit by rockslides, waves from the ocean very often). They're doing an emergency repair on the exact location part of the road that was damaged. They don't plan on moving CA-1 to another location.
Yeah, but... The PCH is a tourist destination. I-40 is a freight highway.
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 03:38:48 PMQuote from: PColumbus73 on June 22, 2025, 01:43:56 PMI think rebuilding on majority viaducts, similar to I-70 through the Rockies or the H3, might be better for long term resilience.
So sometimes keeping current routes is the best bet even if that means fixing it all over again.
This is not going to be a fix. It is going to be a start from scratch re-engineer and start over. The right answer MIGHT be to rebuild it in place.
They got one lane each way open temporarily then a repeat came up. They as I understand are probably 18 months from having a plan to "fix" I-40 much less actually do the EXPENSIVE work it will take regardless of the method (and location) chosen. (And I concede, that they appear to be invested in the current track through these canyons.)
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 03:38:48 PMThe Rockies are different in compared to the Appalachians. Besides, viaducts and tunnels isn't always the solution. A few years ago, I-70 viaduct in Glenwood Canyon was flooded due to excessive rain. That area is also prone to rock slides and flooding. Last year, I-H3 also flooded. How many discussions were there about rerouting these roads? Nothing.
Actually there is increased talk about providing at least an all-weather alternate route for passenger vehicles via Cottonwood Pass.
Currently, Cottonwood can only be used by smaller vehicles in the summer months. Outside of that, a Glenwood Canyon closure results in a guaranteed 3+ hour detour via Craig and Steamboat Springs (on a GOOD day).
Quote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
I am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.
The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago. It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.
Quote from: Beltway on June 22, 2025, 09:00:52 PMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
I am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.
The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago. It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.
Completely agree, especially if it gets busy enough to warrant 6 lanes of capacity, which NO WAY can fit in the current ROW...
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on Today at 12:19:48 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 22, 2025, 09:00:52 PMI am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.
The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago. It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.
Completely agree, especially if it gets busy enough to warrant 6 lanes of capacity, which NO WAY can fit in the current ROW...
The Average Daily Traffic (ADT) on I-40 at the North Carolina–Tennessee border, particularly through the Pigeon River Gorge, typically ranges between 25,000 and 30,000 vehicles per day, depending on the exact location and year. Of that total, large trucks make up approximately 20% to 30% of the traffic volume.
Approaching 6-lane warrants.
The potential there is to shave a lot of miles off the route. One I can see would be a 7 mile long relocation that would replace 11 miles of highway.
A longer one I can see would be a 12 mile long relocation that would replace 18 miles of highway.
Quote from: Beltway on June 22, 2025, 09:00:52 PMQuote from: Strider on June 22, 2025, 12:10:13 AMQuote from: Beltway on June 21, 2025, 12:04:20 PMI-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.
That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.
I am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.
The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago. It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.
Near the future or not, it's not going to happen. You can keep this conversation going if you want to. Until I hear anything from NCDOT about that, I'm done with this conversation.
(a) fictional.
(b) with the construction of I-74, there's now an all-freeway alternate that's only 11 miles longer. 6-laning 150 miles of I-81 would be so much more feasible and, with a higher speed limit, would take a bunch of long distance traffic off I-40. Google Maps even estimates the longer route being 7 minutes faster.
(c) suck it.