There haven't been any major speed limit increases over the past few years. Could there still be speed limit increases in some states or has the era ended?
I suspect so given this is the this era of not being able to question the logic of anything branded as "safety." At least on a mass scale.
Mississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph
There might be a couple more too.
Quote from: kphoger on January 21, 2025, 04:49:34 PMMississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph
There might be a couple more too.
Are they legit active bills, or bills that carry over from legislative session to legislative session without much chance of being heard?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 21, 2025, 05:10:45 PMQuote from: kphoger on January 21, 2025, 04:49:34 PMMississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph
There might be a couple more too.
Are they legit active bills, or bills that carry over from legislative session to legislative session without much chance of being heard?
Active/new this year. New Jersey has one example like you described, the so-called "speed limit sanity bill" that kept carrying over.
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 04:45:06 PMThere haven't been any major speed limit increases over the past few years. Could there still be speed limit increases in some states or has the era ended?
I'm wondering if it may be useful to write your state legislator and at least ask the question. You can't win the lottery if you don't play, after all. :colorful:
As I considered up in the Mississippi thread, maybe any increase would be more popular with the safety advocates if something else was decreased in return, such as local streets at 20-25 or something? Requirements for speed management? Increased VSL usage? Far higher fines for certain cases?
Also, have increases ever been justified using the median/50th percentile speed and/or average speed, rather than the 85th percentile speed?
I'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
The Governor of North Dakota vetoed a similar bill in 2023 due to 'safety'. But a new Governor took office in December, hence the new bill on the table. The question will probably be whether Koppelman is more likely to approve it than Burgum was.
Also will mention that there are many states where higher speed limits are allowed but the DOT simply chose not to post such. Washington state and West Virginia allow 75mph on freeways yet zero are actually posted as such. Alabama, Indiana, Oklahoma, Louisiana, the Florida's Turnpike (see FSS 338.239), and a few others technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 21, 2025, 06:09:05 PMOklahoma ... technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.
Huh?
Quote from: 2023 Oklahoma StatutesTitle 47 — Motor Vehicles
§ 47-11-801 — Basic rule - Maximum and minimum limits – Fines and penalties
C. The Commission is hereby authorized to prescribe maximum and minimum speeds for all vehicles and any combinations of vehicles using controlled-access highways. Such regulations shall become effective after signs have been posted on these highways giving notice thereof. Such regulations may apply to an entirely controlled-access highway or to selected sections thereof as may be designated by the Commission. A speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations comprising rural segments of the interstate highway system by the Commission; provided, however, that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study has been completed by the Department. It shall be a violation of this section to drive any vehicle at a faster rate of speed than such prescribed maximum or at a slower rate of speed than such prescribed minimum. However, all vehicles shall at all times conform to the limits set forth in subsection A of this section.
Copies of such regulations certified as in effect on any particular date by the Secretary of the Commission shall be accepted as evidence in any court in this state. Whenever changes have been made in speed zones, copies of such regulations shall be filed with the Commissioner of Public Safety.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 21, 2025, 05:59:55 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on January 21, 2025, 05:10:45 PMQuote from: kphoger on January 21, 2025, 04:49:34 PMMississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph
There might be a couple more too.
Are they legit active bills, or bills that carry over from legislative session to legislative session without much chance of being heard?
Active/new this year. New Jersey has one example like you described, the so-called "speed limit sanity bill" that kept carrying over.
Yep, that's why that question was on my mind. It's a bill that's never going to see the light of day in its current format.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 21, 2025, 06:09:05 PM... Alabama, Indiana, Oklahoma, Louisiana, the Florida's Turnpike (see FSS 338.239), and a few others technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.
Technically, neither does New Jersey.
Here's NJ's law:
Quote39:4-98. Rates of speed. Subject to the provisions of R.S.39:4-96 and R.S.39:4-97 and except in those instances where a lower speed is specified in this chapter, it shall be prima facie lawful for the driver of a vehicle to drive it at a speed not exceeding the following:
a. (1) Twenty-five miles per hour, when passing through a school zone during recess, when the presence of children is clearly visible from the roadway, or while children are going to or leaving school, during opening or closing hours;
(2) Twenty-five miles per hour on certain portions of Route 130 in Burlington City, Burlington County, as provided by paragraphs (1) and (2) of subsection a. of section 3 of P.L.2019, c.5 (C.39:4-98.12);
(3) Thirty-five miles per hour on certain portions of Route 130 in Burlington City, Burlington County, as provided by paragraphs (3) and (4) of subsection a. of section 3 of P.L.2019, c.5 (C.39:4-98.12);
b. (1) Twenty-five miles per hour in any business or residential district;
(2) Thirty-five miles per hour in any suburban business or residential district;
c. Fifty miles per hour in all other locations, except as otherwise provided in the "Sixty-Five MPH Speed Limit Implementation Act," pursuant to P.L.1997, c.415 (C.39:4-98.3 et al.).
Note...nowhere does it say what the maximum limit is permitted to be. Prior to the permission of 65 mph, there was no law that said 55 mph was the maximum. It was simply statutory limits of 25, 35 or 50, unless otherwise signed.
Even in the law's current form, the 65 mph statutes mostly refer to there being an "implementation" and "study" period, not a maximum limit. The only law that wouldn't make sense for the limit to go above 65 mph is 39:4-98.6 (Certain fines doubled where speed limit is 65mph), where certain violations would incur double fines at 65 mph, but potentially not at 70 mph or higher. The nature of this law, along with 39:4-98.7 (Speeding 20mph or more over limit; fines, certain; doubled), also makes 60 mph speed limits unheard of in NJ. As written, someone in a 60 mph zone would incur double fines at 80 mph. Someone in a 65 zone would incur double fines at 75 mph.
There has been at least one 60 mph work zone on the AC Expressway, but in work zones any violation over the limit is a double fine violation and isn't affected by that conflict.
So the devil is in the details, but ultimately, there's no true maximum stated limit in NJ's state statutes.
Quote from: kphoger on January 21, 2025, 06:23:01 PMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on January 21, 2025, 06:09:05 PMOklahoma ... technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.
Huh?
Quote from: 2023 Oklahoma StatutesTitle 47 — Motor Vehicles
§ 47-11-801 — Basic rule - Maximum and minimum limits – Fines and penalties
C. The Commission is hereby authorized to prescribe maximum and minimum speeds for all vehicles and any combinations of vehicles using controlled-access highways. Such regulations shall become effective after signs have been posted on these highways giving notice thereof. Such regulations may apply to an entirely controlled-access highway or to selected sections thereof as may be designated by the Commission. A speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations comprising rural segments of the interstate highway system by the Commission; provided, however, that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study has been completed by the Department. It shall be a violation of this section to drive any vehicle at a faster rate of speed than such prescribed maximum or at a slower rate of speed than such prescribed minimum. However, all vehicles shall at all times conform to the limits set forth in subsection A of this section.
Copies of such regulations certified as in effect on any particular date by the Secretary of the Commission shall be accepted as evidence in any court in this state. Whenever changes have been made in speed zones, copies of such regulations shall be filed with the Commissioner of Public Safety.
Prior to 2016, the law only granted OKDOT the authority to lower "the limits set forth in subsection A of this section." This bill rescinded the max allowed speed limits (in Subsection A) and replaced them with a requirement that all speed limits regardless of value be set based on an engineering study (in Subsection A). http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20ENR/hB/HB3167%20ENR.PDF
In 2019, the law was changed to what you quoted. This specifically emphasized permission of 75/80 on certain roadways but did not explicitly prohibit speed limits faster than such. The requirements and limitations of Subsection A did not change (all speed limits be set based on engineering study). That's not to say that ODOT doesn't have a preference to not exceed those values, however.
https://www.odot.org/traffic/collision_analysis/pdf/speedstudies.pdf
Kinda easy to miss imho :hmmm:
Could we see more states allowing high speed limits on certain highways?
I remember when Louisiana and Maine upped their speeds to 75 on certain highways. Oklahoma only had 75 on the turnpikes.
Could a 65 state like NY allow 70 on I-87 due to it's lower population density or is this just possible given the socio/political climate of Albany?
And of course we all know the 85 zone in Texas.
I suspect the era is over. Sure, bills still get proposed, but they tend to go nowhere. I once saw a Facebook comment where someone said that any state that hasn't already raised their limit to at least 70 isn't going to, and sadly I think he's right, even if I think that we need to expand 70 to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont, and more of New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. Ideally also I-95 northeast of Baltimore and DE 1, and maybe some rural interstates around Connecticut (like I-395 or the eastern parts of I-95) and Rhode Island (I-95 southwest of the Providence area). If anything, New York is busy lowering speed limits at the municipal level, and while I'd love that to be accompanied with a freeway limit increase to "right size" the limits, realistically the momentum doesn't appear to be there.
(personal opinion)
Quote from: vdeane on January 21, 2025, 09:08:49 PMI suspect the era is over. Sure, bills still get proposed, but they tend to go nowhere. I once saw a Facebook comment where someone said that any state that hasn't already raised their limit to at least 70 isn't going to, and sadly I think he's right, even if I think that we need to expand 70 to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont, and more of New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. Ideally also I-95 northeast of Baltimore and DE 1, and maybe some rural interstates around Connecticut (like I-395 or the eastern parts of I-95) and Rhode Island (I-95 southwest of the Providence area). If anything, New York is busy lowering speed limits at the municipal level, and while I'd love that to be accompanied with a freeway limit increase to "right size" the limits, realistically the momentum doesn't appear to be there.
(personal opinion)
What has the public perception been of these "right sizing" attempts? Additionally, are these drops being done arbitrarily (like in Wales) or done in conjunction with some speed management (like Daylighting, Chicanes, Speed Tables, Landscaping, Cameras, etc)?
There's a heck-ton of evidence stating that the chance of you surviving after being hit by a car above 20mph (approx.) is nearly zero, and likewise the chance of you surviving in a car after crashing into something fixed above 55mph is also nearly zero. However, these are simply speeds, not speed limits. Putting some number that matches these speeds as the speed limit arbitrarily and expecting motorists to obey it has been tried before with very little success and could lead to even more hazards in the end...
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 21, 2025, 09:40:27 PMWhat has the public perception been of these "right sizing" attempts? Additionally, are these drops being done arbitrarily (like in Wales) or done in conjunction with some speed management (like Daylighting, Chicanes, Speed Tables, Landscaping, Cameras, etc)?
It's all mixed, but when I said "right-sizing", I was referring to my hope that we could lower speed limits where it makes sense and raise them where that makes sense. Instead, we're just getting (nearly) blanket lowering.
I find there is resistance in NY to lowering speed limits on State roads, though...at least depending on the RTE.
(personal opinion emphasized)
Oklahoma does not need speed limits. The roads are so bad your car would fall apart if driving at a dangerous speed.
The NMSL died its permanent death 30 years ago. There's not really much more than can happen other than a token increase here and there, is there?
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 21, 2025, 07:44:55 PMPrior to 2016, the law only granted OKDOT the authority to lower "the limits set forth in subsection A of this section." This bill rescinded the max allowed speed limits (in Subsection A) and replaced them with a requirement that all speed limits regardless of value be set based on an engineering study (in Subsection A). http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20ENR/hB/HB3167%20ENR.PDF
In 2019, the law was changed to what you quoted. This specifically emphasized permission of 75/80 on certain roadways but did not explicitly prohibit speed limits faster than such. The requirements and limitations of Subsection A did not change (all speed limits be set based on engineering study). That's not to say that ODOT doesn't have a preference to not exceed those values, however.
https://www.odot.org/traffic/collision_analysis/pdf/speedstudies.pdf
Kinda easy to miss imho :hmmm:
As I was skimming the law, I saw the "no person shall drive any vehicle at a rate of speed in excess of fifty-five (55) miles per hour on any state or federal designated" part of 801(B)(5) and simply assumed that it was the basic statewide speed limit, and that 801(C) and other sections were simply carving out exceptions to that basic speed limit. However, now that I've read through it more closely, I see that you are correct. Well, at least maybe...
801(C) only applies to controlled-access highways. That a "speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations ... [where] that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study" does seem to mean that no speed limit
above 75 mph is permitted to be set on controlled-access highways. That is, it appears to be the maximum allowed under 801(C). And if that's the case, then only non-controlled-access highways remain without a legally permitted maximum.
It seems incomplete.
Many of the sentiments on here mirror what I was thinking... It's been almost 30 years since NMSL was repealed and any state that wanted to raise their limit above 65 have done so already.
Quote from: kphoger on January 22, 2025, 09:22:48 AM801(C) only applies to controlled-access highways. That a "speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations ... [where] that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study" does seem to mean that no speed limit above 75 mph is permitted to be set on controlled-access highways. That is, it appears to be the maximum allowed under 801(C). And if that's the case, then only non-controlled-access highways remain without a legally permitted maximum.
That would make sense if subsection B1 (wrong section, thought it was A for some reason lol) still specified the maximum lawful speed limits numerically. California does this to some extent, as no vehicle may exceed 65mph on any roadway. CalTrans has the specific authority to post 70mph on freeways where an engineering study specifies this speed is safe. Technically they're not explicitly prohibited from posting 75+mph, but the law stating that no vehicle may exceed 65mph overrides whatever the sign says unless it's 70mph, leading to a potentially serious legal concern. However, in Oklahoma, the default speed limits listed in paragraphs following only apply in certain situations and can also be altered up or down without limitation.
This is an interesting legal discussion lol :spin: :bigass: :popcorn: I like where this is going :sombrero:
(I am not a lawyer nor have I consulted with one as a part of this conversation)For anyone else wanting to give this a read, https://oksenate.gov/sites/default/files/2022-05/os47.pdf and go to §47-11-801
The complete list is below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 06:03:54 PMI'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.
Quote from: Henry on January 23, 2025, 10:42:19 PMThe complete list is below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 06:03:54 PMI'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.
AZ has the issue of the super speeder law being 85. Unless that changes, don't expect AZ to raise their limit. ND recently tried and failed. Nebraska tried in the late 2010s and also failed. NM hasn't been tried, but I wouldn't expect it given state politics. At this point, I'd be surprised if even any of the 70 states jump to 75. Ohio looked at it but shelved, ME and MI have maxed out where it is reasonable, the west coast will never (despite WA law allowing up to 75).
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 06:03:54 PMI'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
https://www.kxnet.com/news/house-bill-1298-proposed-to-increase-speed-limit-on-highways/
It might happen this year...
Meanwhile, in Québec, we're still stuck at 100 km/h, or 62 mph. Not that people don't go 120 km/h (75 mph) anyways...
I doubt there will be any speed limit increases in New England anytime soon. IIRC, only Maine has a max speed over 65.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on January 24, 2025, 05:39:46 AMI doubt there will be any speed limit increases in New England anytime soon. IIRC, only Maine has a max speed over 65.
There are some 70s in New Hampshire.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on January 24, 2025, 02:15:16 AMMeanwhile, in Québec, we're still stuck at 100 km/h, or 62 mph. Not that people don't go 120 km/h (75 mph) anyways...
Driving in Canada with their confoundingly low speed limits is an interesting experience...
Quote from: Henry on January 23, 2025, 10:42:19 PMID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases.
But, as you may observe, none of those states border Kansas—except for Oklahoma, where none of the 80mph turnpikes connect to any Kansas highway. All that is to say, not a single 80mph highway anywhere hits the Kansas state line.
Quote from: cl94 on January 24, 2025, 12:36:39 AMQuote from: Henry on January 23, 2025, 10:42:19 PMThe complete list is below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 06:03:54 PMI'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.
AZ has the issue of the super speeder law being 85. Unless that changes, don't expect AZ to raise their limit. ND recently tried and failed. Nebraska tried in the late 2010s and also failed. NM hasn't been tried, but I wouldn't expect it given state politics. At this point, I'd be surprised if even any of the 70 states jump to 75. Ohio looked at it but shelved, ME and MI have maxed out where it is reasonable, the west coast will never (despite WA law allowing up to 75).
These are good examples of why the paradigm of "the speed limit is 10 mph slower than what we want traffic to actually go" needs to die. 75 mph is a very comfortable speed to drive on rural interstates everywhere, even in the northeast. But because they don't want you to go faster than that, they sign the limit at 65 instead. :ded: And that "super speeder" law wouldn't be an issue for raising the limit to 80 if you did it with the understanding that traffic speeds are to remain unchanged (like Wyoming did, where it's very possible to get a ticket for speeding even when only going 3 over in the 80 zones).
Honestly, I'd rather have pervasive speed cameras with reasonable limits instead of lax enforcement plus unreasonably low limits, but I seem to be in the minority on that. Why someone would rather break a rule and get away with it most but not all of the time instead of following a rule all the time (and therefore never get punished for breaking the rule) is beyond me (not just on this issue, but with respect to life in general).
(personal opinion)
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2025, 09:27:28 AMBut, as you may observe, none of those states border Kansas
No state that borders Michigan had a 75mph speed limit when Michigan increased it. And no 75mph freeway connects to another state.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 22, 2025, 04:54:29 PMQuote from: kphoger on January 22, 2025, 09:22:48 AM801(C) only applies to controlled-access highways. That a "speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations ... [where] that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study" does seem to mean that no speed limit above 75 mph is permitted to be set on controlled-access highways. That is, it appears to be the maximum allowed under 801(C). And if that's the case, then only non-controlled-access highways remain without a legally permitted maximum.
That would make sense if subsection B1 (wrong section, thought it was A for some reason lol) still specified the maximum lawful speed limits numerically. California does this to some extent, as no vehicle may exceed 65mph on any roadway. CalTrans has the specific authority to post 70mph on freeways where an engineering study specifies this speed is safe. Technically they're not explicitly prohibited from posting 75+mph, but the law stating that no vehicle may exceed 65mph overrides whatever the sign says unless it's 70mph, leading to a potentially serious legal concern. However, in Oklahoma, the default speed limits listed in paragraphs following only apply in certain situations and can also be altered up or down without limitation.
This is an interesting legal discussion lol :spin: :bigass: :popcorn: I like where this is going :sombrero:
(I am not a lawyer nor have I consulted with one as a part of this conversation)
For anyone else wanting to give this a read, https://oksenate.gov/sites/default/files/2022-05/os47.pdf and go to §47-11-801
Speed limit laws, one of my favorite things!
Read each line and take everything in context. Section 801 A is the basic speed law, worded as "careful and prudent."
801 B says "Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subsection A of this section, the limits specified by law or established as hereinafter authorized shall be maximum lawful speeds, and no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed in excess of the following maximum limits:"
This tells us how maximum speeds are set. It can be a numerical value or a result of a speed study. Speed study limits can be capped.
801 B 1 gives the first speed limit: "On a highway or part of a highway, unless otherwise established in law, a speed established by the Department of Transportation on the basis of engineering and traffic investigations used to determine the speed that is reasonable and safe under the conditions found to exist on the highway or part of the highway."
This is where numerical limits would generally be listed, such as "on a divided highway, 65" or "on a rural Interstate highway, 75." No numbers are listed. The department will set the limits in accordance with traffic engineering principles, without a defined cap.
801 C says: "A speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations comprising rural segments of the interstate highway system by the Commission."
This looks like an exception to a general maximum. Years ago in Texas we had a maximum of 70 with two exceptions, 75 in low-population counties and 80 on defined stretches of Interstates. Subsection D gives OTA authority to set a speed limit of 80. Whether this is intended to present a cap is uncertain. If there were a lower numerical limit and these were higher exceptions, then it would be clear.
802 says: "Whenever the State Highway Commission shall determine upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that any maximum speed hereinbefore set forth is greater or less than is reasonable or safe under the conditions found to exist at any intersection or other place or upon any part of the state highway system, said Commission may determine and declare a reasonable and safe maximum limit thereat which, when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected, shall be effective at all times, or during hours of daylight or darkness or at such other times as may be determined at such intersection or other place or part of the highway."
This is from 1961, so it isn't a recent change. It appears to override any cap set before. My reading of this is that the department always had authority to set higher limits. It could be read to say that a speed limit of 50 can be raised to 60, numbers below a cap. Given that there are no caps given anywhere, only exceptions to caps that may have existed before, and that this section says "any" [with emphasis] maximum speed given (which would include caps), can be changed, and does not specify another limit, I would say that the department doesn't have numerical limits (and under this section, has not since at least 1961). To me, that's the clear meaning of this section, and only thing it can mean unless you assume it means something other than what it says. As for whether this is what the department understands the statute to mean, I can't say. This section doesn't apply to the OTA, so for them the matter is less clear.
Texas statute, for comparison, gives a default speed of 70 and the authority to alter limits. It clearly states that the commission may not establish a speed limit of higher than 75, with clear exceptions for a speed limit of 80 on particular parts of Interstates and a limit of no higher than 85 authorized in another subsection. That structure, which has the most effect on me, is how I understand speed laws, which affects how I read any such statute.
Quote from: GaryV on January 24, 2025, 01:24:35 PMQuote from: kphoger on January 24, 2025, 09:27:28 AMBut, as you may observe, none of those states border Kansas
No state that borders Michigan had a 75mph speed limit when Michigan increased it. And no 75mph freeway connects to another state.
True. And, if Michigan hadn't raised their speed limit to 75 mph, then I wouldn't have found it "very surprising" because of that very fact.
Quote from: vdeane on January 24, 2025, 12:44:31 PMHonestly, I'd rather have pervasive speed cameras with reasonable limits instead of lax enforcement plus unreasonably low limits, but I seem to be in the minority on that. Why someone would rather break a rule and get away with it most but not all of the time instead of following a rule all the time (and therefore never get punished for breaking the rule) is beyond me (not just on this issue, but with respect to life in general).
(personal opinion)
I'm with you there. Give us proper speed limits, such that safe and reasonable drivers are not in violation of the law, and enforce them strictly, penalizing unsafe and unreasonable driving.
I also see it in a broader context, such as tipping. People like to put tipping in terms of being cheap and not being willing to pay for service. To me, it isn't about that. It's pointed out that menu prices would be raised if tipping went away, and I think that would be good. Paying for service should not be optional. You don't pay a mechanic or a plumber for the parts they use and then pay for the labor if you thought the service was good. You know the cost upfront. Another problem is that bringing me scrambled eggs should not be worth less than bringing me steak. It's the same labor and shouldn't pay based on the value of the order. My main objection is that I have no idea what labor is worth. A percentage of the check doesn't make sense, because cheap options don't require less time and effort than expensive ones. It isn't my job to know what the individual elements cost, that's the manager's job. The manager then sets the prices and I decide whether I want to pay that amount for that item. I'm not going to pay 20 cents more for a club sandwich because the tomatoes were really good. To me, tipping is like that. I tip well, by the way. I'm not complaining because I don't want to pay, I'm complaining because I don't know (and shouldn't have to know) how much the service is worth. In the same way I don't know and shouldn't have to know what the "real" speed limit is, the speed at which you won't be stopped.
Quote from: wxfree on January 24, 2025, 02:00:48 PMAnother problem is that bringing me scrambled eggs should not be worth less than bringing me steak. It's the same labor and shouldn't pay based on the value of the order. My main objection is that I have no idea what labor is worth. A percentage of the check doesn't make sense, because cheap options don't require less time and effort than expensive ones. It isn't my job to know what the individual elements cost, that's the manager's job. The manager then sets the prices and I decide whether I want to pay that amount for that item. I'm not going to pay 20 cents more for a club sandwich because the tomatoes were really good. To me, tipping is like that. I tip well, by the way. I'm not complaining because I don't want to pay, I'm complaining because I don't know (and shouldn't have to know) how much the service is worth.
I agree in principle. But it might also be less of a problem than it first appears.
In general, a restaurant whose food costs more will tend to have better waitstaff. Chances are, if a restaurant serves a $35 steak, then I'm probably not eating a $4 plate of scrambled eggs, and the waiter is probably not a total doofus (exceptions exist!). Even if I'm not eating the steak, my meal is still in the mid-upper price range.
Makes me wonder about the flak over McDonald's since it started paying its workers about $15/hr and the complaints that it is now "expensive."
People talk a good game in terms of paying more if you get rid of tips. Not so much in reality.
And then you have the good, high-tip-chasing waitstaff that says they prefer tips...
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 03:17:35 PMMakes me wonder about the flak over McDonald's since it started paying its workers about $15/hr and the complaints that it is now "expensive."
People talk a good game in terms of paying more if you get rid of tips. Not so much in reality.
I still always tip at McDonald's anyway.
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2025, 03:21:48 PMQuote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 03:17:35 PMMakes me wonder about the flak over McDonald's since it started paying its workers about $15/hr and the complaints that it is now "expensive."
People talk a good game in terms of paying more if you get rid of tips. Not so much in reality.
I still always tip at McDonald's anyway.
The person behind the counter or drive-thru? That's semi-unique.
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2025, 03:21:48 PMQuote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 03:17:35 PMMakes me wonder about the flak over McDonald's since it started paying its workers about $15/hr and the complaints that it is now "expensive."
People talk a good game in terms of paying more if you get rid of tips. Not so much in reality.
I still always tip at McDonald's anyway.
Can employees even accept tips at McDonalds?
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 07:05:51 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on January 24, 2025, 02:15:16 AMMeanwhile, in Québec, we're still stuck at 100 km/h, or 62 mph. Not that people don't go 120 km/h (75 mph) anyways...
Driving in Canada with their confoundingly low speed limits is an interesting experience...
It's outrageous. Ontario did throw a bone and increase the limit to 110 on freeways, but the desolate highways of Northern Ontario are still stuck at 90. Even the twinned section of the TCH from Thunder Bay to Nipigon is stuck at 90. These highways were good enough for 60 mph before the oil crisis—100 km/h is more than reasonable today.
Quote from: vdeane on January 24, 2025, 12:44:31 PMQuote from: cl94 on January 24, 2025, 12:36:39 AMQuote from: Henry on January 23, 2025, 10:42:19 PMThe complete list is below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 06:03:54 PMI'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.
AZ has the issue of the super speeder law being 85. Unless that changes, don't expect AZ to raise their limit. ND recently tried and failed. Nebraska tried in the late 2010s and also failed. NM hasn't been tried, but I wouldn't expect it given state politics. At this point, I'd be surprised if even any of the 70 states jump to 75. Ohio looked at it but shelved, ME and MI have maxed out where it is reasonable, the west coast will never (despite WA law allowing up to 75).
These are good examples of why the paradigm of "the speed limit is 10 mph slower than what we want traffic to actually go" needs to die. 75 mph is a very comfortable speed to drive on rural interstates everywhere, even in the northeast. But because they don't want you to go faster than that, they sign the limit at 65 instead. :ded:
Ironically this was one of many justifications why Florida's attempt at allowing 75mph was stopped. Sign 75 and "everyone" will be driving 85. And goodness forbid the "think of the children" argument was used due to concerns over teen drivers going 85+. Not too long ago I was one of those teen drivers, and 85 was freaking slow for my peers...
I also find it ironic that in Florida the argument tends to change a lot about what "everyone" does with respect to a posted speed limit. Sometimes I hear "everyone" goes 5 over (ok I'll admit I'm in this group), other times I'll hear that "everyone" goes 10 over, and more recently I've been hearing "everyone" goes 15 over.
Also, if "everyone" goes 10-15 over and that was the justification for keeping the 70 cap, why do I know people who have gotten ticketed for 76-78 in the 70?
QuoteHonestly, I'd rather have pervasive speed cameras with reasonable limits instead of lax enforcement plus unreasonably low limits, but I seem to be in the minority on that. Why someone would rather break a rule and get away with it most but not all of the time instead of following a rule all the time (and therefore never get punished for breaking the rule) is beyond me (not just on this issue, but with respect to life in general).
(personal opinion)
Ironically some European countries now allow speed limits of 150km/h if the motorway section is equipped with Average Speed Cameras. None are currently posted as such but they are legal as of a few years ago.
It's hilarious how low speed limits are in cities outside of Michigan.
You can fly through downtown Grand Rapids at 70mph with a sharp 50mph advisory curve but god forbid you go over 60mph on a completely straight limited access highway in Toledo, OH. Last time I drove through there I had cars flying past going 80mph just like in Michigan but the speed differential was a lot different. The second I hit the Michigan border I crank the cruise control up to 80mph.
Same thing with Indiana making US freeways only 65mph while interstates get to be 70 like a little badge makes the freeway less safe.
Quote from: vdeane on January 24, 2025, 12:44:31 PMHonestly, I'd rather have pervasive speed cameras with reasonable limits instead of lax enforcement plus unreasonably low limits, but I seem to be in the minority on that. Why someone would rather break a rule and get away with it most but not all of the time instead of following a rule all the time (and therefore never get punished for breaking the rule) is beyond me (not just on this issue, but with respect to life in general).
This is generally how enforcement works in Europe. Sure, motorways in most European countries have 120-140 km/h limits, but there is zero tolerance and strict enforcement, with enough cameras to ensure that you will get nabbed. The UK is an exception, generally following the standard US policy of underposting.
Gonna be hard to increase speeds on most of the German autobahns when the speed limit is already c
Quote from: Road Hog on January 24, 2025, 09:37:54 PMGonna be hard to increase speeds on most of the German autobahns when the speed limit is already c
You could increase the advisory speed to 140-160 or something idk :bigass:
IT'S HAPPENING :popcorn:
ND House passes 80mph bill https://www.kxnet.com/news/local-news/north-dakota-state-house-once-again-passes-speed-limit-increase/amp/
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 24, 2025, 11:15:51 PMIT'S HAPPENING :popcorn:
ND House passes 80mph bill https://www.kxnet.com/news/local-news/north-dakota-state-house-once-again-passes-speed-limit-increase/amp/
One of their representatives must have seen this thread
Quote from: epzik8 on January 25, 2025, 05:05:14 PMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on January 24, 2025, 11:15:51 PMIT'S HAPPENING :popcorn:
ND House passes 80mph bill https://www.kxnet.com/news/local-news/north-dakota-state-house-once-again-passes-speed-limit-increase/amp/
One of their representatives must have seen this thread
Well...
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 21, 2025, 05:59:55 PMI'm wondering if it may be useful to write your state legislator and at least ask the question. You can't win the lottery if you don't play, after all. :colorful:
...Someone did :clap:
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 03:17:35 PMMakes me wonder about the flak over McDonald's since it started paying its workers about $15/hr and the complaints that it is now "expensive."
People talk a good game in terms of paying more if you get rid of tips. Not so much in reality.
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2025, 03:21:48 PMI still always tip at McDonald's anyway.
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 05:49:31 PMThe person behind the counter or drive-thru? That's semi-unique.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2025, 06:37:18 PMCan employees even accept tips at McDonalds?
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/it-was-a-c4362296b2.jpg)
The truth is that I almost never go to McDonald's. Maybe once a year? Pretty much only ever because we're meeting someone there.
Quote from: kphoger on January 27, 2025, 11:07:47 AMQuote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 03:17:35 PMMakes me wonder about the flak over McDonald's since it started paying its workers about $15/hr and the complaints that it is now "expensive."
People talk a good game in terms of paying more if you get rid of tips. Not so much in reality.
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2025, 03:21:48 PMI still always tip at McDonald's anyway.
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 05:49:31 PMThe person behind the counter or drive-thru? That's semi-unique.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2025, 06:37:18 PMCan employees even accept tips at McDonalds?
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/it-was-a-c4362296b2.jpg)
The truth is that I almost never go to McDonald's. Maybe once a year? Pretty much only ever because we're meeting someone there.
Stay out of stand-up and keep your day job.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 24, 2025, 07:39:42 PMQuote from: vdeane on January 24, 2025, 12:44:31 PMQuote from: cl94 on January 24, 2025, 12:36:39 AMQuote from: Henry on January 23, 2025, 10:42:19 PMThe complete list is below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 06:03:54 PMI'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.
AZ has the issue of the super speeder law being 85. Unless that changes, don't expect AZ to raise their limit. ND recently tried and failed. Nebraska tried in the late 2010s and also failed. NM hasn't been tried, but I wouldn't expect it given state politics. At this point, I'd be surprised if even any of the 70 states jump to 75. Ohio looked at it but shelved, ME and MI have maxed out where it is reasonable, the west coast will never (despite WA law allowing up to 75).
These are good examples of why the paradigm of "the speed limit is 10 mph slower than what we want traffic to actually go" needs to die. 75 mph is a very comfortable speed to drive on rural interstates everywhere, even in the northeast. But because they don't want you to go faster than that, they sign the limit at 65 instead. :ded:
Ironically this was one of many justifications why Florida's attempt at allowing 75mph was stopped. Sign 75 and "everyone" will be driving 85. And goodness forbid the "think of the children" argument was used due to concerns over teen drivers going 85+. Not too long ago I was one of those teen drivers, and 85 was freaking slow for my peers...
I also find it ironic that in Florida the argument tends to change a lot about what "everyone" does with respect to a posted speed limit. Sometimes I hear "everyone" goes 5 over (ok I'll admit I'm in this group), other times I'll hear that "everyone" goes 10 over, and more recently I've been hearing "everyone" goes 15 over.
Also, if "everyone" goes 10-15 over and that was the justification for keeping the 70 cap, why do I know people who have gotten ticketed for 76-78 in the 70?
QuoteHonestly, I'd rather have pervasive speed cameras with reasonable limits instead of lax enforcement plus unreasonably low limits, but I seem to be in the minority on that. Why someone would rather break a rule and get away with it most but not all of the time instead of following a rule all the time (and therefore never get punished for breaking the rule) is beyond me (not just on this issue, but with respect to life in general).
(personal opinion)
I think Alligator Alley would be a prime place for a having a 75 mph zone.
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on February 04, 2025, 01:29:12 PMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on January 24, 2025, 07:39:42 PMQuote from: vdeane on January 24, 2025, 12:44:31 PMQuote from: cl94 on January 24, 2025, 12:36:39 AMQuote from: Henry on January 23, 2025, 10:42:19 PMThe complete list is below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States
Quote from: Ingsoc75 on January 21, 2025, 06:03:54 PMI'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.
ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.
AZ has the issue of the super speeder law being 85. Unless that changes, don't expect AZ to raise their limit. ND recently tried and failed. Nebraska tried in the late 2010s and also failed. NM hasn't been tried, but I wouldn't expect it given state politics. At this point, I'd be surprised if even any of the 70 states jump to 75. Ohio looked at it but shelved, ME and MI have maxed out where it is reasonable, the west coast will never (despite WA law allowing up to 75).
These are good examples of why the paradigm of "the speed limit is 10 mph slower than what we want traffic to actually go" needs to die. 75 mph is a very comfortable speed to drive on rural interstates everywhere, even in the northeast. But because they don't want you to go faster than that, they sign the limit at 65 instead. :ded:
Ironically this was one of many justifications why Florida's attempt at allowing 75mph was stopped. Sign 75 and "everyone" will be driving 85. And goodness forbid the "think of the children" argument was used due to concerns over teen drivers going 85+. Not too long ago I was one of those teen drivers, and 85 was freaking slow for my peers...
I also find it ironic that in Florida the argument tends to change a lot about what "everyone" does with respect to a posted speed limit. Sometimes I hear "everyone" goes 5 over (ok I'll admit I'm in this group), other times I'll hear that "everyone" goes 10 over, and more recently I've been hearing "everyone" goes 15 over.
Also, if "everyone" goes 10-15 over and that was the justification for keeping the 70 cap, why do I know people who have gotten ticketed for 76-78 in the 70?
QuoteHonestly, I'd rather have pervasive speed cameras with reasonable limits instead of lax enforcement plus unreasonably low limits, but I seem to be in the minority on that. Why someone would rather break a rule and get away with it most but not all of the time instead of following a rule all the time (and therefore never get punished for breaking the rule) is beyond me (not just on this issue, but with respect to life in general).
(personal opinion)
I think Alligator Alley would be a prime place for a having a 75 mph zone.
Ironically, the dynamic message signs already indicate an 80mph+ operating speed...
QuoteSR-869 / I-595
27 miles
20-23 min
For Florida in particular, the feel of the 70 mph interstate speed limit varies greatly depending on what road you're on. It feels a lot better on a higher traffic road like I-95 than it does on I-10 through the panhandle. I typically set my cruise control for 77 on Florida interstates, which was about in line with what most other cars were doing, and never had an issue with it.
One way Florida is nice is that they allow 60 mph on two-lane roads. There are plenty of roads down there that would feel totally safe at 65-70 (which is what people drive on them), but most states in that part of the country cap those roads at 55 mph, which feels way too slow 90% of the time.
HB 1055 - New Tennessee bill to raise default freeway speed limit to 75, minimum left-lane speed to 60, and prohibit violations for speeds between 60 and 80 on the specified highways.
https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1055
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 05, 2025, 07:29:45 PMprohibit violations for speeds between 60 and 80 on the specified highways.
:eyebrow: If you're going to make the speed limit 80, just make it 80. Don't go "it's 75, but it's really 80". The 5 mph tolerance is supposed to be so that people don't get nailed when they're honestly trying to maintain the speed limit (ie, if their speedometer and/or the radar gun is off, or their cruise control momentarily drifts), not be tacit permission for everyone to just go 5 mph over all the time.
Quote from: vdeane on February 05, 2025, 09:47:15 PMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on February 05, 2025, 07:29:45 PMprohibit violations for speeds between 60 and 80 on the specified highways.
:eyebrow: If you're going to make the speed limit 80, just make it 80. Don't go "it's 75, but it's really 80". The 5 mph tolerance is supposed to be so that people don't get nailed when they're honestly trying to maintain the speed limit (ie, if their speedometer and/or the radar gun is off, or their cruise control momentarily drifts), not be tacit permission for everyone to just go 5 mph over all the time.
You can still be pulled over for less than 5 over, just not issued a ticket. That is the law currently in TN (no violations between 55 and 75 in a 70), as is with GA and FL.
However, this exception only exists for the higher limits. I know someone who got a ticket for 34 in a 30 recently, which is kinda silly imho but completely legal.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 05, 2025, 07:29:45 PMHB 1055 - New Tennessee bill to raise default freeway speed limit to 75, minimum left-lane speed to 60, and prohibit violations for speeds between 60 and 80 on the specified highways.
https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1055
Given that Mississippi and now Tennessee are both proposing increasing their default freeway speed limits to 75, I wonder if we could see Alabama proposing a similar increase.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 06, 2025, 12:27:34 AMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on February 05, 2025, 07:29:45 PMHB 1055 - New Tennessee bill to raise default freeway speed limit to 75, minimum left-lane speed to 60, and prohibit violations for speeds between 60 and 80 on the specified highways.
https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1055
Given that Mississippi and now Tennessee are both proposing increasing their default freeway speed limits to 75, I wonder if we could see Alabama proposing a similar increase.
Right now as far as I'm aware, the DOT legally can do so wherever they prefer.
Fingers crossed this extends to FL sometime soon
North Carolina HB 112 would increase the max allowed Interstate speed limit to 75, with criminal speed still applying at 10 over (80 in a 70, 85 in a 75). This is similar to previous session bills.
https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookUp/2025/H112
Also, it appears the TN bill is dead for now :(
Mississippi House passes HB 74 (increases default limits to 75 freeway / 70 elsewhere) in a 110-5 vote, with 7 absent or vacant.
https://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/2025/pdf/votes/house/0380032.pdf
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/726849-florida-could-soon-raise-the-speed-limit-on-its-highways/
Florida might be the next state east of the Mississippi River to raise the speed limit to 75 mph on limited-access highways.
For any other highways outside urban areas, meaning those with populations of 5,000 or more, the speed limit would ramp up from 65 mph to 70 mph, so long as there was a median strip dividing the lanes of traffic.
The language filed by DiCeglie would also allow the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) to set maximum speeds for other roads deemed as safe and advisable as high as 65 mph. The agency right now only has discretion to boost the maximum speed on such roads to 60 mph.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on March 19, 2025, 04:04:20 AMhttps://floridapolitics.com/archives/726849-florida-could-soon-raise-the-speed-limit-on-its-highways/
Florida might be the next state east of the Mississippi River to raise the speed limit to 75 mph on limited-access highways.
For any other highways outside urban areas, meaning those with populations of 5,000 or more, the speed limit would ramp up from 65 mph to 70 mph, so long as there was a median strip dividing the lanes of traffic.
The language filed by DiCeglie would also allow the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) to set maximum speeds for other roads deemed as safe and advisable as high as 65 mph. The agency right now only has discretion to boost the maximum speed on such roads to 60 mph.
Bill here (pages 7-8): https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/462/Amendment/816070/PDF
This amendment is nearly identical to the bill that was vetoed back in 2014. Also rescinds the statutory minimum speed limits.
https://www.inforum.com/news/north-dakota/north-dakota-senate-passes-80-mph-speed-limit-on-interstates-fine-increases-and-point-penalty-changes
Speed limit bill in ND passed with a close margin (25-21) in the Senate!
Next step- Gov. Kelly Armstrong signs the bill, and ND will be the latest state out west to have an 80 mph speed limit!
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on April 23, 2025, 11:18:40 AMSpeed limit provisions removed from SB 462 in late-filed amendment, now only present in HB 567.
Florida bill seems less likely to go through... https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/462/Amendment/133278/PDF
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on April 18, 2025, 11:17:46 PMhttps://www.inforum.com/news/north-dakota/north-dakota-senate-passes-80-mph-speed-limit-on-interstates-fine-increases-and-point-penalty-changes
Speed limit bill in ND passed with a close margin (25-21) in the Senate!
Next step- Gov. Kelly Armstrong signs the bill, and ND will be the latest state out west to have an 80 mph speed limit!
SIGNED INTO LAW!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: