Is the era of speed limit increases over?

[Ingsoc75]

There haven't been any major speed limit increases over the past few years. Could there still be speed limit increases in some states or has the era ended?

[Max Rockatansky]

I suspect so given this is the this era of not being able to question the logic of anything branded as "safety."  At least on a mass scale.

[kphoger]

Mississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph

There might be a couple more too.

[jeffandnicole]

Mississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph

There might be a couple more too.

Are they legit active bills, or bills that carry over from legislative session to legislative session without much chance of being heard?

[ElishaGOtis]

Mississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph

There might be a couple more too.

Are they legit active bills, or bills that carry over from legislative session to legislative session without much chance of being heard?

Active/new this year. New Jersey has one example like you described, the so-called "speed limit sanity bill" that kept carrying over.

There haven't been any major speed limit increases over the past few years. Could there still be speed limit increases in some states or has the era ended?

I'm wondering if it may be useful to write your state legislator and at least ask the question. You can't win the lottery if you don't play, after all. 

As I considered up in the Mississippi thread, maybe any increase would be more popular with the safety advocates if something else was decreased in return, such as local streets at 20-25 or something? Requirements for speed management? Increased VSL usage? Far higher fines for certain cases?

Also, have increases ever been justified using the median/50th percentile speed and/or average speed, rather than the 85th percentile speed?

[Ingsoc75]

I'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.

[kphoger]

The Governor of North Dakota vetoed a similar bill in 2023 due to 'safety'.  But a new Governor took office in December, hence the new bill on the table.  The question will probably be whether Koppelman is more likely to approve it than Burgum was.

[ElishaGOtis]

Also will mention that there are many states where higher speed limits are allowed but the DOT simply chose not to post such. Washington state and West Virginia allow 75mph on freeways yet zero are actually posted as such. Alabama, Indiana, Oklahoma, Louisiana, the Florida's Turnpike (see FSS 338.239), and a few others technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.

[kphoger]

Oklahoma ... technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.

Huh?

Title 47 — Motor Vehicles

§ 47-11-801 — Basic rule - Maximum and minimum limits – Fines and penalties

C. The Commission is hereby authorized to prescribe maximum and minimum speeds for all vehicles and any combinations of vehicles using controlled-access highways. Such regulations shall become effective after signs have been posted on these highways giving notice thereof. Such regulations may apply to an entirely controlled-access highway or to selected sections thereof as may be designated by the Commission. A speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations comprising rural segments of the interstate highway system by the Commission; provided, however, that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study has been completed by the Department. It shall be a violation of this section to drive any vehicle at a faster rate of speed than such prescribed maximum or at a slower rate of speed than such prescribed minimum. However, all vehicles shall at all times conform to the limits set forth in subsection A of this section.

Copies of such regulations certified as in effect on any particular date by the Secretary of the Commission shall be accepted as evidence in any court in this state. Whenever changes have been made in speed zones, copies of such regulations shall be filed with the Commissioner of Public Safety.

[jeffandnicole]

Mississippi — HB 74 — proposed increase to 75 mph
North Dakota — HB 1298 — proposed increase to 80 mph

There might be a couple more too.

Are they legit active bills, or bills that carry over from legislative session to legislative session without much chance of being heard?

Active/new this year. New Jersey has one example like you described, the so-called "speed limit sanity bill" that kept carrying over.

Yep, that's why that question was on my mind.  It's a bill that's never going to see the light of day in its current format.

... Alabama, Indiana, Oklahoma, Louisiana, the Florida's Turnpike (see FSS 338.239), and a few others technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.

Technically, neither does New Jersey.

Here's NJ's law:

39:4-98. Rates of speed. Subject to the provisions of R.S.39:4-96 and R.S.39:4-97 and except in those instances where a lower speed is specified in this chapter, it shall be prima facie lawful for the driver of a vehicle to drive it at a speed not exceeding the following:

a. (1) Twenty-five miles per hour, when passing through a school zone during recess, when the presence of children is clearly visible from the roadway, or while children are going to or leaving school, during opening or closing hours;

(2) Twenty-five miles per hour on certain portions of Route 130 in Burlington City, Burlington County, as provided by paragraphs (1) and (2) of subsection a. of section 3 of P.L.2019, c.5 (C.39:4-98.12);

(3) Thirty-five miles per hour on certain portions of Route 130 in Burlington City, Burlington County, as provided by paragraphs (3) and (4) of subsection a. of section 3 of P.L.2019, c.5 (C.39:4-98.12);

b. (1) Twenty-five miles per hour in any business or residential district;

(2) Thirty-five miles per hour in any suburban business or residential district;

c. Fifty miles per hour in all other locations, except as otherwise provided in the "Sixty-Five MPH Speed Limit Implementation Act," pursuant to P.L.1997, c.415 (C.39:4-98.3 et al.).

Note...nowhere does it say what the maximum limit is permitted to be.  Prior to the permission of 65 mph, there was no law that said 55 mph was the maximum.  It was simply statutory limits of 25, 35 or 50, unless otherwise signed. 

Even in the law's current form, the 65 mph statutes mostly refer to there being an "implementation" and "study" period, not a maximum limit.  The only law that wouldn't make sense for the limit to go above 65 mph is 39:4-98.6 (Certain fines doubled where speed limit is 65mph), where certain violations would incur double fines at 65 mph, but potentially not at 70 mph or higher.  The nature of this law, along with 39:4-98.7 (Speeding 20mph or more over limit; fines, certain; doubled), also makes 60 mph speed limits unheard of in NJ.  As written, someone in a 60 mph zone would incur double fines at 80 mph.  Someone in a 65 zone would incur double fines at 75 mph. 

There has been at least one 60 mph work zone on the AC Expressway, but in work zones any violation over the limit is a double fine violation and isn't affected by that conflict.

So the devil is in the details, but ultimately, there's no true maximum stated limit in NJ's state statutes.

[ElishaGOtis]

Oklahoma ... technically don't have a max allowed speed limit but remain consistent with surrounding states, default speed limits, and design speeds.

Huh?

Title 47 — Motor Vehicles

§ 47-11-801 — Basic rule - Maximum and minimum limits – Fines and penalties

C. The Commission is hereby authorized to prescribe maximum and minimum speeds for all vehicles and any combinations of vehicles using controlled-access highways. Such regulations shall become effective after signs have been posted on these highways giving notice thereof. Such regulations may apply to an entirely controlled-access highway or to selected sections thereof as may be designated by the Commission. A speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations comprising rural segments of the interstate highway system by the Commission; provided, however, that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study has been completed by the Department. It shall be a violation of this section to drive any vehicle at a faster rate of speed than such prescribed maximum or at a slower rate of speed than such prescribed minimum. However, all vehicles shall at all times conform to the limits set forth in subsection A of this section.

Copies of such regulations certified as in effect on any particular date by the Secretary of the Commission shall be accepted as evidence in any court in this state. Whenever changes have been made in speed zones, copies of such regulations shall be filed with the Commissioner of Public Safety.

Prior to 2016, the law only granted OKDOT the authority to lower "the limits set forth in subsection A of this section." This bill rescinded the max allowed speed limits (in Subsection A) and replaced them with a requirement that all speed limits regardless of value be set based on an engineering study (in Subsection A). http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20ENR/hB/HB3167%20ENR.PDF

In 2019, the law was changed to what you quoted. This specifically emphasized permission of 75/80 on certain roadways but did not explicitly prohibit speed limits faster than such. The requirements and limitations of Subsection A did not change (all speed limits be set based on engineering study). That's not to say that ODOT doesn't have a preference to not exceed those values, however.

https://www.odot.org/traffic/collision_analysis/pdf/speedstudies.pdf

Kinda easy to miss imho 

[Ingsoc75]

Could we see more states allowing high speed limits on certain highways?

I remember when Louisiana and Maine upped their speeds to 75 on certain highways. Oklahoma only had 75 on the turnpikes.

Could a 65 state like NY allow 70 on I-87 due to it's lower population density or is this just possible given the socio/political climate of Albany?

And of course we all know the 85 zone in Texas.

[vdeane]

I suspect the era is over.  Sure, bills still get proposed, but they tend to go nowhere.  I once saw a Facebook comment where someone said that any state that hasn't already raised their limit to at least 70 isn't going to, and sadly I think he's right, even if I think that we need to expand 70 to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont, and more of New Hampshire and Pennsylvania.  Ideally also I-95 northeast of Baltimore and DE 1, and maybe some rural interstates around Connecticut (like I-395 or the eastern parts of I-95) and Rhode Island (I-95 southwest of the Providence area).  If anything, New York is busy lowering speed limits at the municipal level, and while I'd love that to be accompanied with a freeway limit increase to "right size" the limits, realistically the momentum doesn't appear to be there.

(personal opinion)

[ElishaGOtis]

I suspect the era is over.  Sure, bills still get proposed, but they tend to go nowhere.  I once saw a Facebook comment where someone said that any state that hasn't already raised their limit to at least 70 isn't going to, and sadly I think he's right, even if I think that we need to expand 70 to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont, and more of New Hampshire and Pennsylvania.  Ideally also I-95 northeast of Baltimore and DE 1, and maybe some rural interstates around Connecticut (like I-395 or the eastern parts of I-95) and Rhode Island (I-95 southwest of the Providence area).  If anything, New York is busy lowering speed limits at the municipal level, and while I'd love that to be accompanied with a freeway limit increase to "right size" the limits, realistically the momentum doesn't appear to be there.

(personal opinion)

What has the public perception been of these "right sizing" attempts? Additionally, are these drops being done arbitrarily (like in Wales) or done in conjunction with some speed management (like Daylighting, Chicanes, Speed Tables, Landscaping, Cameras, etc)?

There's a heck-ton of evidence stating that the chance of you surviving after being hit by a car above 20mph (approx.) is nearly zero, and likewise the chance of you surviving in a car after crashing into something fixed above 55mph is also nearly zero. However, these are simply speeds, not speed limits. Putting some number that matches these speeds as the speed limit arbitrarily and expecting motorists to obey it has been tried before with very little success and could lead to even more hazards in the end...

[vdeane]

What has the public perception been of these "right sizing" attempts? Additionally, are these drops being done arbitrarily (like in Wales) or done in conjunction with some speed management (like Daylighting, Chicanes, Speed Tables, Landscaping, Cameras, etc)?

It's all mixed, but when I said "right-sizing", I was referring to my hope that we could lower speed limits where it makes sense and raise them where that makes sense.  Instead, we're just getting (nearly) blanket lowering.

[Rothman]

I find there is resistance in NY to lowering speed limits on State roads, though...at least depending on the RTE.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[texaskdog]

Oklahoma does not need speed limits.  The roads are so bad your car would fall apart if driving at a dangerous speed.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The NMSL died its permanent death 30 years ago. There's not really much more than can happen other than a token increase here and there, is there?

[kphoger]

Prior to 2016, the law only granted OKDOT the authority to lower "the limits set forth in subsection A of this section." This bill rescinded the max allowed speed limits (in Subsection A) and replaced them with a requirement that all speed limits regardless of value be set based on an engineering study (in Subsection A). http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20ENR/hB/HB3167%20ENR.PDF

In 2019, the law was changed to what you quoted. This specifically emphasized permission of 75/80 on certain roadways but did not explicitly prohibit speed limits faster than such. The requirements and limitations of Subsection A did not change (all speed limits be set based on engineering study). That's not to say that ODOT doesn't have a preference to not exceed those values, however.

https://www.odot.org/traffic/collision_analysis/pdf/speedstudies.pdf

Kinda easy to miss imho 

As I was skimming the law, I saw the "no person shall drive any vehicle at a rate of speed in excess of fifty-five (55) miles per hour on any state or federal designated" part of 801(B)(5) and simply assumed that it was the basic statewide speed limit, and that 801(C) and other sections were simply carving out exceptions to that basic speed limit.  However, now that I've read through it more closely, I see that you are correct.  Well, at least maybe...

801(C) only applies to controlled-access highways.  That a "speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations ... [where] that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study" does seem to mean that no speed limit above 75 mph is permitted to be set on controlled-access highways.  That is, it appears to be the maximum allowed under 801(C).  And if that's the case, then only non-controlled-access highways remain without a legally permitted maximum.

It seems incomplete.

[Ingsoc75]

Many of the sentiments on here mirror what I was thinking... It's been almost 30 years since NMSL was repealed and any state that wanted to raise their limit above 65 have done so already.

[ElishaGOtis]

801(C) only applies to controlled-access highways.  That a "speed limit of seventy-five (75) miles per hour may be set in locations ... [where] that speed is determined to be safe and reasonable after a traffic or engineering study" does seem to mean that no speed limit above 75 mph is permitted to be set on controlled-access highways.  That is, it appears to be the maximum allowed under 801(C).  And if that's the case, then only non-controlled-access highways remain without a legally permitted maximum.

That would make sense if subsection B1 (wrong section, thought it was A for some reason lol) still specified the maximum lawful speed limits numerically. California does this to some extent, as no vehicle may exceed 65mph on any roadway. CalTrans has the specific authority to post 70mph on freeways where an engineering study specifies this speed is safe. Technically they're not explicitly prohibited from posting 75+mph, but the law stating that no vehicle may exceed 65mph overrides whatever the sign says unless it's 70mph, leading to a potentially serious legal concern. However, in Oklahoma, the default speed limits listed in paragraphs following only apply in certain situations and can also be altered up or down without limitation.

This is an interesting legal discussion lol      I like where this is going 

(I am not a lawyer nor have I consulted with one as a part of this conversation)

For anyone else wanting to give this a read, https://oksenate.gov/sites/default/files/2022-05/os47.pdf and go to §47-11-801

[Henry]

The complete list is below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States

I'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.

ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.

[cl94]

The complete list is below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States

I'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.

ID, MT, NV, OK, SD, TX (in small places), UT, and WY currently allow 80 on their freeways. I find it very surprising that KS hasn't returned to that number, since I remember it being used (prior to the NMSL being adopted) by studying old atlases. Also, I think AZ, NE and NM should at least consider joining the 80 club.

AZ has the issue of the super speeder law being 85. Unless that changes, don't expect AZ to raise their limit. ND recently tried and failed. Nebraska tried in the late 2010s and also failed. NM hasn't been tried, but I wouldn't expect it given state politics. At this point, I'd be surprised if even any of the 70 states jump to 75. Ohio looked at it but shelved, ME and MI have maxed out where it is reasonable, the west coast will never (despite WA law allowing up to 75).

[Great Lakes Roads]

I'm surprised ND hasn't been able to pass an increase to 80 mph seeing as it's flat and has a low population.

https://www.kxnet.com/news/house-bill-1298-proposed-to-increase-speed-limit-on-highways/

It might happen this year...

[LilianaUwU]

Meanwhile, in Québec, we're still stuck at 100 km/h, or 62 mph. Not that people don't go 120 km/h (75 mph) anyways...