Does the counterculture still exist?
It seems like the counterculture today consists of only one person (me). Or maybe a couple other people who I see from time to time. How has the media managed to suppress the counterculture so successfully?
I thought it was dwindling back when I was in college, when it seemed like a lot of people were using counterculture branding and bragged about being "EXTREME!!!" even though they had establishment ideas. But the real counterculture still existed to some extent, much more so than today. I thought things were even worse in the decade of the 2000s, but even then, the counterculture was still around to an extent.
But in the 2020s, it's gone. Completely.
Everyone just laps up every word they hear, see, or read without questioning it.
Where's the counterculture? Are they pooing?
It because normalized and those people grew up. Having things you value like family and a career tends make people more grounded.
Social media happened. Any "counterculture" trend that resonates with people gets plastered all over the internet and before long, it's not counterculture anymore.
There has to be a culture that the counterculture counters...
Quote from: bandit957 on February 09, 2025, 11:40:55 AMEveryone just laps up every word they hear, see, or read without questioning it.
Have you been paying attention? That half the people take half of everything without question, and the other half of the people take the other half of everything?
Easy. There is no monolithic culture to counter.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 09, 2025, 12:11:28 PMIt because normalized and those people grew up. Having things you value like family and a career tends make people more grounded.
For every group of individuals that thought they were going to change the world, one still tends to the cooperative farm in a small town in Vermont, one died for the cause, another one overdosed, two went to jail, three more found ascetic religion, seven went on to regret their decisions and work for a think tank designed to destroy that counterculture, and the other 98% found their ideals slowly gnashed by the gears of a well-oiled civilization (they probably joined out of boredom or a desire to get laid).
Quote from: bandit957 on February 09, 2025, 11:40:55 AMDoes the counterculture still exist?
Of course it does, advertising just became too expensive.
Quote from: Rothman on February 09, 2025, 12:49:20 PMThere has to be a culture that the counterculture counters...
For almost every ___, there's an anti-___.
Quote from: bandit957Does the counterculture still exist?
Not really. The mediums used by the counterculture to spread their message 50+ years ago just don't exist like they did back then. Music, fashion, literature and movies were all very influential and helped spread that message to the general public. Now those outlets are mere shells of their former selves.
First, we have to acknowledge the widespread disappearance of retail stores that sold books, music and movies. A lot of people who shared the same interests would meet in those places. Now they're isolated and "meeting" online, which isn't the same.
The only thing I'll say about fashion is it's for rich people. It might try to promote some visual counterculture message. But the buyers of the product are about as not-counter as it gets.
50 years ago there were dozens of independent music labels and hundreds upon hundreds of independent radio stations willing to play lots of new stuff. That's not the case anymore. They've all been bought and sold again and again. Now a select few people up on high decide what gets played.
Listener requests? Don't make me laugh. I can't listen to broadcast radio at all. It sucks everywhere. The same 10 songs are on infinite repeat for possibly years on end, punctuated by lots of annoying commercials. There is plenty of new music out there that is interesting, but you have to go well out of your way to find it. It's very difficult for new bands to break through. They already have to be a social media phenomenon before they can even get signed (and financially screwed by the big label).
Big companies who control what music gets distributed really don't like any music that has a message to it. They'll tolerate it to an extent in some genres, such as hip-hop. Far more acts in that genre rap about their own narcissism. Groups like Public Enemy and Rage Against the Machine are mostly relics of the past. There's lots of "edgy" music out there, but it's rarely political.
Gotta maximize sales.
I used to be a big movie fan, but my movie-going habits have dropped off to almost nothing. I can go months at a time without visiting a cinema. It has been years since I have bought a movie on disc (I've never bought a digital download movie). So many movies these days are just unremarkable. One movie might be pretty good; but I very rarely ever want to watch it again, much less own a copy of it. We have all the damned sequels and re-makes. But then everything else is churned out of a plot beat-sheet library like clip art.
Save the Cat! is the movie industry's screen-writing bible.
In the mid 1960's Hollywood was in deep financial trouble. Big budget, 3 hour long costume dramas weren't selling anymore. Acting styles were dated as hell. The movie industry had to do something. "Underground" film was gaining popularity. The Motion Picture Association of America launched its new ratings system and the old Hayes code was abandoned. That allowed Hollywood to go on its most innovative streak in the movie industry's history. They took chances on all kinds of movies, even ones that were overtly political. Not every movie had a happy ending either. Hits like
The Godfather,
The Exorcist and even
Star Wars were products of this chance-taking attitude. Of course
Star Wars is one of those blockbuster movies we can blame for how bland and predictable movies are now.
Today Hollywood doesn't take any chances at all. New movies play in the cinema for barely a month. Then they arrive on a given streaming service platform only to disappear in the abyss of the app's user interface. In the past I had a lot easier time finding movies to buy or rent in a retail store than I do having to fart around scrolling in some app.
Commercial cinemas are struggling to stay operational. Chains like AMC are closing under-performing locations right and left. A growing number of towns and suburbs are turning into "cinema deserts" -no first run theaters at all. If the cinema platform fails it will take down much of the rest of the movie industry. What is a movie if it doesn't play in theaters?
A made-for-TV movie. Movie studios will get a lot smaller or just be folded into parent TV networks.
Book publishing is probably an even worse situation. Far fewer authors get published in physical print anymore. Some of that is due to so many retail book stores vanishing. So many writers have to use the e-book route and even self-publish. It's far more difficult for a talented new writer to get noticed than it was in the past.
I think there is a price to be paid for America's corporate-flavored decline of its popular culture (and counterculture). America used to
win hearts and minds with our music, movies, etc. It was one form of "soft power." Now that our creative stuff just isn't all that good anymore our nation's influence overseas is waning.
It could also be political counterculture, now blasting forth into the mainstream like it has been doing throughout history.
Mike
A major part of countercultural media was shocking audiences. When a large part of the population literally believes in Qanon hogwash, there isn't a lot you can do to shock people.
I wouldn't call the media's output of stuff, such as what they air on 24-hour cable "news" channels, culture or even counter-culture. It's nothing more than an emotional jerk-off for viewers. Anger pornography. I think an episode of WWE SmackDown has more cultural significance than that other crap.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 09, 2025, 02:09:19 PM50 years ago there were dozens of independent music labels and hundreds upon hundreds of independent radio stations willing to play lots of new stuff. That's not the case anymore.
There is all sorts of music out there than is played through Spotify. Who needs radio?
It's been homogenized.
Hipsters were a close proxy in the 2000s/2010s, but then became the mainstream.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 09, 2025, 02:09:19 PMBook publishing is probably an even worse situation. Far fewer authors get published in physical print anymore. Some of that is due to so many retail book stores vanishing. So many writers have to use the e-book route and even self-publish. It's far more difficult for a talented new writer to get noticed than it was in the past.
I've definitely noticed that books as a medium seem to no longer be all that significant anymore. Back when I was young, it seemed like major book series like Harry Potter, Twilight, and the Hunger Games were gaining widespread popularity all the time. I definitely don't hear about such things now. When was the last time a major author or series became prominent via books?
Quote from: Bruce on February 09, 2025, 03:32:45 PMHipsters were a close proxy in the 2000s/2010s, but then became the mainstream.
I think it stands to reason that counterculture won't remain such forever. Either it will become mainstream or it will wither and die as people move on.
Quote from: SEWIGuyThere is all sorts of music out there than is played through Spotify. Who needs radio?
Music is far less visible today from an advertising/marketing angle. The brick and mortar retail footprint is far smaller now. A JPEG thumbnail image of a band's album in some streaming app is not much of a substitute.
Many magazine publications have ended. The others that still exist (such as
Rolling Stone) shrank in physical size (so they can fit on a Walmart shelf). MTV rarely plays music videos; I can't make sense why they still have a video music awards show. What the hell do they know about music anymore? 95% of the time they're playing repeats of reality TV show episodes.
The only "record stores" my town of 100,000 people has is the limited (and censored) selections of music in Walmart, Target and Sam's Club. And a bunch of the stuff they sell there is old music. I have an original LP pressing of
Kill 'Em All by Metallica, which I bought when I was in high school. The same LP, brand new, is for sale at Walmart. Those small music departments in places like Walmart are far less capable of carrying other music-related merchandise, such as band t-shirts. Items like that were easier to buy at real brick and mortar music stores. Now if you want some band related merch to wear you gotta take your chances ordering it online.
Paid services like Spotify and Sirius|XM will give listeners a break from all the damned commercials that infect broadcast radio. They'll play a somewhat wider variety of music. But I can listen to a channel, such as Alt Nation on Sirius|XM and hear a lot of the same songs repeatedly. I have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription that I use at work and at the gym. Their music "channels" and play lists are also pretty repetitive. But I can search out specific albums or songs from almost any artist and play them at will. However that takes a bit of work. It takes even more work to build up a really good play list.
Quote from: vdeaneI've definitely noticed that books as a medium seem to no longer be all that significant anymore. Back when I was young, it seemed like major book series like Harry Potter, Twilight, and the Hunger Games were gaining widespread popularity all the time. I definitely don't hear about such things now. When was the last time a major author or series became prominent via books?
I couldn't answer that question. But I'm pretty sure it's quite a bit more difficult for a new author to break through and get published. If Stephen King was an age 20-something guy just starting out he probably wouldn't make it in today's publishing environment. That's not to say it was really easy back then. His first novel,
Carrie got rejected by 30 different publishers before Doubleday took a chance in 1974.
It's important to notice a lot more book publishers were in business back then. There are fewer around today. Also: manuscripts had to be physically type-written on paper and even in a certain industry standard format. Now it's easy for well-meaning publishers to get overwhelmed with thousands upon thousands of amateur-quality novels.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 09, 2025, 04:31:52 PMMusic is far less visible today from an advertising/marketing angle. The brick and mortar retail footprint is far smaller now. A JPEG thumbnail image of a band's album in some streaming app is not much of a substitute.
Many magazine publications have ended. The others that still exist (such as Rolling Stone) shrank in physical size (so they can fit on a Walmart shelf). MTV rarely plays music videos; I can't make sense why they still have a video music awards show. What the hell do they know about music anymore? 95% of the time they're playing repeats of reality TV show episodes.
The only "record stores" my town of 100,000 people has is the limited (and censored) selections of music in Walmart, Target and Sam's Club. And a bunch of the stuff they sell there is old music. I have an original LP pressing of Kill 'Em All by Metallica, which I bought when I was in high school. The same LP, brand new, is for sale at Walmart. Those small music departments in places like Walmart are far less capable of carrying other music-related merchandise, such as band t-shirts. Items like that were easier to buy at real brick and mortar music stores. Now if you want some band related merch to wear you gotta take your chances ordering it online.
Paid services like Spotify and Sirius|XM will give listeners a break from all the damned commercials that infect broadcast radio. They'll play a somewhat wider variety of music. But I can listen to a channel, such as Alt Nation on Sirius|XM and hear a lot of the same songs repeatedly. I have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription that I use at work and at the gym. Their music "channels" and play lists are also pretty repetitive. But I can search out specific albums or songs from almost any artist and play them at will. However that takes a bit of work. It takes even more work to build up a really good play list.
This just sounds like nostalgia more than a death of counter-culture thing.
Good radio isn't dead, just scattered. KEXP is still humming along in Seattle and moved into a new space a few years back that hosts live shows and a record store. There's quite a few shops in and around Seattle that cater exclusively to physical music media.
Quote from: SEWIThis just sounds like nostalgia more than a death of counter-culture thing.
The only counter-culture that exists today is underground.
And it will probably go fully into hiding. The only thing that passes for "counter-culture" today is "influencers" online. They're a joke. Just about every so-called influencer is there to celebrate themselves and pester people to
like and subscribe.Quote from: BruceGood radio isn't dead, just scattered. KEXP is still humming along in Seattle and moved into a new space a few years back that hosts live shows and a record store. There's quite a few shops in and around Seattle that cater exclusively to physical music media.
Seattle hardly qualifies as being an average American town.
Most other smaller cities and towns aren't going to have brick and mortar record stores or radio stations whose local management and DJ's can actually choose the music they want to play.
In the 1990's when our local rock radio station (Z94) launched it was great. They played all sorts of rock music, listener requests, deep cuts, etc. The first time the station got sold the new owners threw their physical music library (LPs, reel to reel tapes, CDs, etc) into the garbage and replaced it with a media server with only about 10% of the music they had previously. They also fired several DJ's. When the station got sold again the new owners installed a newer server with even less music. And more people got fired. That radio station has changed hands another couple of times. Now the thing is pretty much automated. They have a manager and a couple local sales people to sell ads. But there is no real on-air talent. If they do have a local human being come in and record some bumpers it's just content to go in the automation queue. None of it is live. That's the reality across much of America.
Having a subscription to Spotify, Tidal, Sirius|XM or whatever is only a
lesser evil. I can't stomach listening to local broadcast radio. But choosing to listen to streaming providers instead is going to speed up the outright demise of those local radio stations.
Some of this shit is happening to TV stations too. The Weather Channel is starting to decimate the local weather departments at many local TV stations. So far they're not firing our local weather crew in Lawton, which is located near the heart of Tornado Alley, but that might be because there would be such a shit show of local outrage if they dared to it. I don't put it past those bastards to try.
Getting not just your own entertainment, but your own reality pumped directly into your brain is more counterculture than anything, and it's now mainstream. In an age in which people endlessly and futilely yell and laugh at each other, no one learns, and belief in truth is traitorous to the cause, perhaps the new counterculture is people who believe in using truth to solve problems and make people's lives better.
It's in the queer-celebrating spaces like Fringe Festivals.
I think the Super 59 broadcast (still in progress as of this writing) has been a pretty good example of just how arguably invisible modern music is. Sure, Kendrick Lamar headlined the halftime show. However, just about all these expensive Super Bowl ads have been digging up vintage music from the 1980's, 1970's and earlier. I just heard Huey Lewis and the News during the last commercial break. They've had Gary Numan, Scorpions, LL Cool J and lots of other "old" artists in the ads.
A lot of that can be attributed to 80s nostalgia being the peak thing among older adults right now. When I was kid it was the same thing with 60s stuff.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 09, 2025, 09:14:56 PMI think the Super 59 broadcast (still in progress as of this writing) has been a pretty good example of just how arguably invisible modern music is. Sure, Kendrick Lamar headlined the halftime show. However, just about all these expensive Super Bowl ads have been digging up vintage music from the 1980's, 1970's and earlier. I just heard Huey Lewis and the News during the last commercial break. They've had Gary Numan, Scorpions, LL Cool J and lots of other "old" artists in the ads.
What are the demographics of the buying audience...
I kinda feel like the current counterculture is the furry fandom, given that they're a queer subculture and that they've gotten not-quite-mainstream within the past few years with plenty scare articles about them from certain parts of the political spectrum.
'Independent' music has been surging ever since Apple iTunes downloads came about in the 00s. I'd be very curious as to where 'indie' acts are in relation to Label 'signed' acts nowadays.
Mike
The counter culture people got older and formed the culture.
Isn't counter culture evolved into cancel culture?
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were once part of that culture and that molded them into what they are now. Both were in the White House and brought their influence with them when they made their decisions to run the country.
It's there still but became the norm. When Clinton and Obama became president, they both brought the sixties into politics.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 10, 2025, 08:58:23 AMIsn't counter culture evolved into cancel culture?
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were once part of that culture and that molded them into what they are now. Both were in the White House and brought their influence with them when they made their decisions to run the country.
It's there still but became the norm. When Clinton and Obama became president, they both brought the sixties into politics.
Obama was born in 1961 - so his '60s culture would have been Lite Brite, Etch-A-Sketch, and Space Ghost.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 10, 2025, 08:58:23 AMIsn't counter culture evolved into cancel culture?
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were once part of that culture and that molded them into what they are now. Both were in the White House and brought their influence with them when they made their decisions to run the country.
It's there still but became the norm. When Clinton and Obama became president, they both brought the sixties into politics.
I don't really see how any of this has anything to do with cancel culture?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 10:44:20 AMQuote from: roadman65 on February 10, 2025, 08:58:23 AMIsn't counter culture evolved into cancel culture?
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were once part of that culture and that molded them into what they are now. Both were in the White House and brought their influence with them when they made their decisions to run the country.
It's there still but became the norm. When Clinton and Obama became president, they both brought the sixties into politics.
I don't really see how any of this has anything to do with cancel culture?
Or counter-culture actually.
culture on a counter :bigass: : (https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b2a777cf79392eb3d66ad4f/1531331555646-ONC392HNW6G9J6GJTZNB/P1090967.JPG)
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 09, 2025, 09:14:56 PMdigging up vintage music from the 1980's, 1970's and earlier
If the copyright has expired, they can use it.
EDIT: Never mind. Song copyright is much longer than that.
Quote from: GaryV on February 10, 2025, 12:09:58 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on February 09, 2025, 09:14:56 PMdigging up vintage music from the 1980's, 1970's and earlier
If the copyright has expired, they can use it.
EDIT: Never mind. Song copyright is much longer than that.
Combination of age groups 35-65 still watching football and recording artists still wanting to be relevant. After all, it's usually much less expensive to license most music that hasn't been on the charts for 30 years, and I'm sure most one-hit wonders are glad to make some money and a little fame once again. Obviously, some artists wield a bit more control over their backcatalogue...Beatles and Led Zeppelin songs are expensive if not an outright "NO".
(Though, nice use of "Momma Said Knock You Out" for the hopes of defeating/suppressing childhood cancer.)
Quote from: Max RockantanskyA lot of that can be attributed to 80s nostalgia being the peak thing among older adults right now. When I was kid it was the same thing with 60s stuff.
In the 1970's nostalgia for the 1950's was big (
Happy Days,
American Graffiti), just like 60's nostalgia in the mid-late 80's. But the difference with the 70's and 80's is those decades had their own very distinct and varied music styles. Those decades also had bands who, in my opinion, were more successful than any music acts today.
Michael Jackson's
Thriller is still the biggest selling album of all time.
Black and Black by AC/DC is solidly in second place all time.
The Wall by Pink Floyd is in the top 10 best sellers list. So is the soundtrack for
Dirty Dancing. All of those are from the 1980's. No one sells albums in numbers like that anymore. Not even Taylor Swift.
America had 100 million fewer people 40 years ago. Yet it was easier for music acts from that era to release albums that went gold, platinum or multi-platinum. I think one reason why was music was far more visible from a physical retail perspective. I'll also add the concert-going pastime hadn't yet been completely ruined by the Ticketmaster/LiveNation monopoly. It was easier and far less costly to get tickets to see a band like Van Halen live. MTV was in its prime during the 1980's.
Quote from: RothmanWhat are the demographics of the buying audience...
More than just old and middle-age farts watch the Super Bowl. Also, by the time people are hitting their late 40's or getting into their 50's, their buying activity slows down a lot. Younger adults just starting out, particularly those building families, do a lot more buying of stuff.
I think the advertisers are stuck using vintage rock/pop music in their commercials because they know people in their 20's and 30's are going to be familiar with it (along with all the older farts like me). Most newer music acts just don't have the same reach.
I'm somewhat familiar with the bitter fued between Drake and Kendrick Lamar. Drake is suing Universal Music over lyrics in the track
Not Like Us. Still, I didn't get the significance of Serena Williams'
Crip-Walking dance during that music number in the halftime show. After reading a little about Williams' brief relationship with Drake her appearance in the halftime show was quite a stinging burn.
Most people aren't going to do "homework" like that. They'll stick to the music "channels" they prefer in their favorite streaming apps and not risk being exposed to other different content.
Oddly, I thought yesterday was a conglomeration of the only 3 "mainstream" events to happen in the past year (for those of us that are under 30 at least): the Super Bowl, the rap beef, and the election. And it's still not hard to find people under 30 who didn't pay attention to at least one of those things.
I didn't even know "the beef" was a thing until yesterday. It sounds like a sandwich you'd get at Arby's though.
I should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about. I'm genuinely confused after trying to read a synopsis or two on the matter. Anyone care to a stab at trying to explain?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 04:28:47 PMI didn't even know "the beef" was a thing until yesterday. It sounds like a sandwich you'd get at Arby's though.
I should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about. I'm genuinely confused after trying to read a synopsis or two on the matter. Anyone care to a stab at trying to explain?
The gist...
So Drake and Kendrick used to collaborate.
Then J. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all started doing diss tracks at each other (with J. Cole dropping out eventually). Drake accused Kendrick of being a domestic abuser, and Kendrick responded calling him a sexual predator and that he had a kid he was keeping secret. The biggest diss was the song, "Not Like Us" where Kendrick calls Drake a pedophile. The emphatic lines are "Say, Drake, I hear you like 'em young. You better not ever go to cell block one. To any bitch that talk to him and they in love, just make sure you hide your lil' sister from him. // Tryna strike a chord and it's probably A-minor."
Last night, Kendrick was wearing a lowercase a chain, which most people assumed was referring to "A-Minor". He also, in between songs, kept alluding to the fact he was going to sing "Not Like Us" and said "want to play their favorite song, but you know they love to sue." When he was actually finally rapping "Not Like Us", he censored a particularly profane line by saying "Hey Drake" while smiling big. SZA and Serena Williams were also both brought out on stage, both Drake's exes.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:32:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 04:28:47 PMI didn't even know "the beef" was a thing until yesterday. It sounds like a sandwich you'd get at Arby's though.
I should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about. I'm genuinely confused after trying to read a synopsis or two on the matter. Anyone care to a stab at trying to explain?
The gist...
So Drake and Kendrick used to collaborate.
Then J. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all started doing diss tracks at each other (with J. Cole dropping out eventually). Drake accused Kendrick of being a domestic abuser, and Kendrick responded calling him a sexual predator and that he had a kid he was keeping secret. The biggest diss was the song, "Not Like Us" where Kendrick calls Drake a pedophile. The emphatic lines are "Say, Drake, I hear you like 'em young. You better not ever go to cell block one. To any bitch that talk to him and they in love, just make sure you hide your lil' sister from him. // Tryna strike a chord and it's probably A-minor."
Last night, Kendrick was wearing a lowercase a chain, which most people assumed was referring to "A-Minor". He also, in between songs, kept alluding to the fact he was going to sing "Not Like Us" and said "want to play their favorite song, but you know they love to sue." When he was actually finally rapping "Not Like Us", he censored a particularly profane line by saying "Hey Drake" while smiling big. SZA and Serena Williams were also both brought out on stage, both Drake's exes.
Thank you, I think that I get it now. That's a lot of information to have to know to understand what was going on at a half time show though.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 05:37:27 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:32:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 04:28:47 PMI didn't even know "the beef" was a thing until yesterday. It sounds like a sandwich you'd get at Arby's though.
I should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about. I'm genuinely confused after trying to read a synopsis or two on the matter. Anyone care to a stab at trying to explain?
The gist...
So Drake and Kendrick used to collaborate.
Then J. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all started doing diss tracks at each other (with J. Cole dropping out eventually). Drake accused Kendrick of being a domestic abuser, and Kendrick responded calling him a sexual predator and that he had a kid he was keeping secret. The biggest diss was the song, "Not Like Us" where Kendrick calls Drake a pedophile. The emphatic lines are "Say, Drake, I hear you like 'em young. You better not ever go to cell block one. To any bitch that talk to him and they in love, just make sure you hide your lil' sister from him. // Tryna strike a chord and it's probably A-minor."
Last night, Kendrick was wearing a lowercase a chain, which most people assumed was referring to "A-Minor". He also, in between songs, kept alluding to the fact he was going to sing "Not Like Us" and said "want to play their favorite song, but you know they love to sue." When he was actually finally rapping "Not Like Us", he censored a particularly profane line by saying "Hey Drake" while smiling big. SZA and Serena Williams were also both brought out on stage, both Drake's exes.
Thank you, I think that I get it now. That's a lot of information to have to know to understand what was going on at a half time show though.
The main thing to know is that "Not Like Us" is a diss track, which, historically were just these kind of one off songs that people listened to and forgot them. But this song became a huge hit, won a Grammy, and then got performed at the halftime show, so more of an insult for Drake.
Where's the Beef?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:40:54 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 05:37:27 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:32:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 04:28:47 PMI didn't even know "the beef" was a thing until yesterday. It sounds like a sandwich you'd get at Arby's though.
I should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about. I'm genuinely confused after trying to read a synopsis or two on the matter. Anyone care to a stab at trying to explain?
The gist...
So Drake and Kendrick used to collaborate.
Then J. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all started doing diss tracks at each other (with J. Cole dropping out eventually). Drake accused Kendrick of being a domestic abuser, and Kendrick responded calling him a sexual predator and that he had a kid he was keeping secret. The biggest diss was the song, "Not Like Us" where Kendrick calls Drake a pedophile. The emphatic lines are "Say, Drake, I hear you like 'em young. You better not ever go to cell block one. To any bitch that talk to him and they in love, just make sure you hide your lil' sister from him. // Tryna strike a chord and it's probably A-minor."
Last night, Kendrick was wearing a lowercase a chain, which most people assumed was referring to "A-Minor". He also, in between songs, kept alluding to the fact he was going to sing "Not Like Us" and said "want to play their favorite song, but you know they love to sue." When he was actually finally rapping "Not Like Us", he censored a particularly profane line by saying "Hey Drake" while smiling big. SZA and Serena Williams were also both brought out on stage, both Drake's exes.
Thank you, I think that I get it now. That's a lot of information to have to know to understand what was going on at a half time show though.
The main thing to know is that "Not Like Us" is a diss track, which, historically were just these kind of one off songs that people listened to and forgot them. But this song became a huge hit, won a Grammy, and then got performed at the halftime show, so more of an insult for Drake.
My daughter caught me up to speed on this about six months ago after a trip to the library to pick out CDs.
A tiny peek through the window of current pop culture; check back with me in about 3-5 years if anything else shines though.
Quote from: formulanone on February 10, 2025, 05:57:03 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:40:54 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 05:37:27 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:32:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 04:28:47 PMI didn't even know "the beef" was a thing until yesterday. It sounds like a sandwich you'd get at Arby's though.
I should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about. I'm genuinely confused after trying to read a synopsis or two on the matter. Anyone care to a stab at trying to explain?
The gist...
So Drake and Kendrick used to collaborate.
Then J. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all started doing diss tracks at each other (with J. Cole dropping out eventually). Drake accused Kendrick of being a domestic abuser, and Kendrick responded calling him a sexual predator and that he had a kid he was keeping secret. The biggest diss was the song, "Not Like Us" where Kendrick calls Drake a pedophile. The emphatic lines are "Say, Drake, I hear you like 'em young. You better not ever go to cell block one. To any bitch that talk to him and they in love, just make sure you hide your lil' sister from him. // Tryna strike a chord and it's probably A-minor."
Last night, Kendrick was wearing a lowercase a chain, which most people assumed was referring to "A-Minor". He also, in between songs, kept alluding to the fact he was going to sing "Not Like Us" and said "want to play their favorite song, but you know they love to sue." When he was actually finally rapping "Not Like Us", he censored a particularly profane line by saying "Hey Drake" while smiling big. SZA and Serena Williams were also both brought out on stage, both Drake's exes.
Thank you, I think that I get it now. That's a lot of information to have to know to understand what was going on at a half time show though.
The main thing to know is that "Not Like Us" is a diss track, which, historically were just these kind of one off songs that people listened to and forgot them. But this song became a huge hit, won a Grammy, and then got performed at the halftime show, so more of an insult for Drake.
My daughter caught me up to speed on this about six months ago after a trip to the library to pick out CDs.
A tiny peek through the window of current pop culture; check back with me in about 3-5 years if anything else shines though.
I find it all pretty ridiculous, but as someone who listened to a lot of rap during the East Coast/West Coast rivalry, I guess I understand why it's important to the kiddos nowadays.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:59:34 PMQuote from: formulanone on February 10, 2025, 05:57:03 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:40:54 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 05:37:27 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 05:32:33 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 04:28:47 PMI didn't even know "the beef" was a thing until yesterday. It sounds like a sandwich you'd get at Arby's though.
I should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about. I'm genuinely confused after trying to read a synopsis or two on the matter. Anyone care to a stab at trying to explain?
The gist...
So Drake and Kendrick used to collaborate.
Then J. Cole, Kendrick, and Drake all started doing diss tracks at each other (with J. Cole dropping out eventually). Drake accused Kendrick of being a domestic abuser, and Kendrick responded calling him a sexual predator and that he had a kid he was keeping secret. The biggest diss was the song, "Not Like Us" where Kendrick calls Drake a pedophile. The emphatic lines are "Say, Drake, I hear you like 'em young. You better not ever go to cell block one. To any bitch that talk to him and they in love, just make sure you hide your lil' sister from him. // Tryna strike a chord and it's probably A-minor."
Last night, Kendrick was wearing a lowercase a chain, which most people assumed was referring to "A-Minor". He also, in between songs, kept alluding to the fact he was going to sing "Not Like Us" and said "want to play their favorite song, but you know they love to sue." When he was actually finally rapping "Not Like Us", he censored a particularly profane line by saying "Hey Drake" while smiling big. SZA and Serena Williams were also both brought out on stage, both Drake's exes.
Thank you, I think that I get it now. That's a lot of information to have to know to understand what was going on at a half time show though.
The main thing to know is that "Not Like Us" is a diss track, which, historically were just these kind of one off songs that people listened to and forgot them. But this song became a huge hit, won a Grammy, and then got performed at the halftime show, so more of an insult for Drake.
My daughter caught me up to speed on this about six months ago after a trip to the library to pick out CDs.
A tiny peek through the window of current pop culture; check back with me in about 3-5 years if anything else shines though.
I find it all pretty ridiculous, but as someone who listened to a lot of rap during the East Coast/West Coast rivalry, I guess I understand why it's important to the kiddos nowadays.
On our last trip to Tuscaloosa with my wife and daughter, I realized
"hey, she's now an adult, I don't have to skip tracks anymore".
Quote from: Max RockatanskyI should add that now I'm aware of "the beef" doesn't mean I understand what it is actually about.
The whole "a-minor" gag makes it sound like the Hip-Hop version of the feud between Jerry Seinfeld and Bobcat Goldthwait. 31 years ago Goldthwait appeared on the
Arsenio Hall Show, describing Seinfeld as a "spooky, weird Scientologist guy banging teenage girls." Seinfeld was around 40 at the time and his new girlfriend was only 17. Uh, yeah. It wasn't quite Jerry Lee Lewis territory, but it was still pretty creepy.
I like Lamar's catchy track
Humble, but I wasn't surprised to see him self-censor lyrics in that track in the Super Bowl halftime show. Lines like "Bitch, be humble" wouldn't go over well with most ladies in the audience. I sure wouldn't attempt saying that crap to any lady I was dating!
Quote from: NE2 on February 09, 2025, 08:59:05 PMIt's in the queer-celebrating spaces like Fringe Festivals.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 10, 2025, 01:14:48 AMI kinda feel like the current counterculture is the furry fandom, given that they're a queer subculture and that they've gotten not-quite-mainstream within the past few years with plenty scare articles about them from certain parts of the political spectrum.
These ... sound right. But they're also rather specific and narrow in their reach. Has the counter-cultural always been so, I don't know,
niche?
Quote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 07:04:14 PMQuote from: NE2 on February 09, 2025, 08:59:05 PMIt's in the queer-celebrating spaces like Fringe Festivals.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 10, 2025, 01:14:48 AMI kinda feel like the current counterculture is the furry fandom, given that they're a queer subculture and that they've gotten not-quite-mainstream within the past few years with plenty scare articles about them from certain parts of the political spectrum.
These ... sound right. But they're also rather specific and narrow in their reach. Has the counter-cultural always been so, I don't know, niche?
I haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
Quote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 07:04:14 PMQuote from: NE2 on February 09, 2025, 08:59:05 PMIt's in the queer-celebrating spaces like Fringe Festivals.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 10, 2025, 01:14:48 AMI kinda feel like the current counterculture is the furry fandom, given that they're a queer subculture and that they've gotten not-quite-mainstream within the past few years with plenty scare articles about them from certain parts of the political spectrum.
These ... sound right. But they're also rather specific and narrow in their reach. Has the counter-cultural always been so, I don't know, niche?
I mean, the main American counterculture, hippies, were much more widespread and lasted from basically 1964 to 1972.
There are a lot of other examples in American history -- beatniks, punks, etc., and I'd argue all of those were more widespread too.
Quote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
Furries aren't countering.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
By his fursuit, of course. I assume they wear them 24/7.
In my day to day life I've yet to encounter someone who actively stated they are a furry. Then again, I'm gathering that isn't something people tend to bring up to friends and family.
Quote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 08:11:15 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
By his fursuit, of course. I assume they wear them 24/7.
Fursuits are quite expensive and aren't particularly comfortable, so only a tiny fraction of furries even own one, much less regularly wear one.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 08:19:27 PMIn my day to day life I've yet to encounter someone who actively stated they are a furry. Then again, I'm gathering that isn't something people tend to bring up to friends and family.
I thought we had a couple on here.
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 08:49:17 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 08:19:27 PMIn my day to day life I've yet to encounter someone who actively stated they are a furry. Then again, I'm gathering that isn't something people tend to bring up to friends and family.
I thought we had a couple on here.
We do, but they aren't people I don't really know off forum.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 08:23:12 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 08:11:15 PMBy his fursuit, of course. I assume they wear them 24/7.
Fursuits are quite expensive and aren't particularly comfortable, so only a tiny fraction of furries even own one, much less regularly wear one.
Sorry, forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags.
Quote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 09:57:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 08:23:12 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 08:11:15 PMBy his fursuit, of course. I assume they wear them 24/7.
Fursuits are quite expensive and aren't particularly comfortable, so only a tiny fraction of furries even own one, much less regularly wear one.
Sorry, forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags.
I figured, but this seems like a legitimate misconception a lot of people have.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 10:01:06 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 09:57:16 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 08:23:12 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 08:11:15 PMBy his fursuit, of course. I assume they wear them 24/7.
Fursuits are quite expensive and aren't particularly comfortable, so only a tiny fraction of furries even own one, much less regularly wear one.
Sorry, forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags.
I figured, but this seems like a legitimate misconception a lot of people have.
Hm. Furless furries...
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
My apologies. I'm not well versed in the daily habits of being a furry. Which also happens to be a fact I am not complaining about.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
I don't know if this is fully defined as a furry, but I attended a board game meetup group one night and a woman was wearing a plush bunny suit. That seemed obvious enough to me.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 11:21:41 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
I don't know if this is fully defined as a furry, but I attended a board game meetup group one night and a woman was wearing a plush bunny suit. That seemed obvious enough to me.
Did the bunny have a name that was different than the woman wearing it? If so, she's a furry who has a bunny character. If not, she's probably just a woman wearing a plush bunny suit.
I don't think furries was the counter culture Bandit was seeking.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2025, 01:03:07 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 11:21:41 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
I don't know if this is fully defined as a furry, but I attended a board game meetup group one night and a woman was wearing a plush bunny suit. That seemed obvious enough to me.
Did the bunny have a name that was different than the woman wearing it? If so, she's a furry who has a bunny character. If not, she's probably just a woman wearing a plush bunny suit.
I didn't feel like asking.
She may also have been mentally 'off'. (half joking)
Back in the Chicago area, there was a guy I used to see riding the bus who dressed up like Superman, and over time I began to suspect he wasn't always entirely aware that he wasn't actually Superman. I hung out with him at the laundromat once, and also while waiting quite some time for a bus at Wal-Mart on a Saturday. But I was never sure if the Superman thing was just a quirk of whatever special needs he had, or if it was a more serious mental thing.
... hmmmm ...
/me dives into Google.
Ah, so I see now that he is autistic. Wow, it's really weird watching this PBS video about him (https://www.pbs.org/video/saving-superman-gmd61g/)! He looks so much older now but sounds almost the same as he did back then.
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 08:49:17 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2025, 08:19:27 PMIn my day to day life I've yet to encounter someone who actively stated they are a furry. Then again, I'm gathering that isn't something people tend to bring up to friends and family.
I thought we had a couple on here.
I mean, I'm technically a furry, though I consider myself more of a brony. I even have my own 'sona, lol. (https://bsky.app/profile/hvillealrailfan.bsky.social/post/3kn65pslmz32l)
Does having a lot of body hair count?
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 04:38:43 PMDoes having a lot of body hair count?
Does the body hair have a name that's different from the person it's attached to?
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2025, 05:05:03 PMDoes the body hair have a name that's different from the person it's attached to?
I could name it, if you'd like. Something counter-cultural, like Edna.
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 05:07:35 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 11, 2025, 05:05:03 PMDoes the body hair have a name that's different from the person it's attached to?
I could name it, if you'd like. Something counter-cultural, like Edna.
There you go, you're a furry. Or Edna's a furry. Congrats and good luck to you and/or Edna.
Quote from: thspfc on February 11, 2025, 05:09:07 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 05:07:35 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 11, 2025, 05:05:03 PMDoes the body hair have a name that's different from the person it's attached to?
I could name it, if you'd like. Something counter-cultural, like Edna.
There you go, you're a furry. Or Edna's a furry. Congrats and good luck to you and/or Edna.
Just wait until the extremists find out about this stuff. What bathroom does a furry use? (Don't say fire hydrants)
Furries had more rules than I was aware of.
Quote from: Rothman on February 11, 2025, 05:13:06 PMFurries had more rules than I was aware of.
Furries were more than I was aware of.
Quote from: GaryV on February 11, 2025, 05:14:03 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 11, 2025, 05:13:06 PMFurries had more rules than I was aware of.
Furries were more than I was aware of.
Same, seems to be a bigger thing than I had previous knowledge of. About my only other exposure was a MTV documentary an ex-girlfriend had showed me a decade ago.
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 09:51:40 AMBack in the Chicago area, there was a guy I used to see riding the bus who dressed up like Superman...
There is a guy who ambles around North Las Vegas dressed up as someone from the video game
Bloodborne. Someone posted a picture of him to a Vegas locals group and was like "Someone want to tell me what's up with this guy?" The typical response was "Yeah, that's Jim. I hope he's staying hydrated." Which is how Vegas responds to that sort of thing.
Key West had a Darth Vader, Spider-Man and Chewbacca all running around on Duval Street. I recall seeing Spider-Man the most given the guy traveled around ok 1970s style roller skates.
KC had running Superman. (https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article288433235.html) Not mentally ill (to my knowledge) though.
I've seen Spider-Man with a boombox in Lawrence, but only once.
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 05:07:35 PMI could name it, if you'd like. Something counter-cultural, like Edna.
Hello Possums!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Dame_Edna_%286959711768%29.jpg/160px-Dame_Edna_%286959711768%29.jpg)
But as I said, the counter-culture became the culture - fighting The Man is hard to do when you are The Man. So mainstream was Dame Edna (as she became) that she literally was asked to, at party for hundreds of millions of people, introduce the guest of honour, the most establishment of establishment figures, who'd been in the job for 50 years (Edna only had been at it for 40-something at that point)
Dame Edna even does the line about the 60s (if you remember them, you weren't there) before naming a bunch of people who were part of the counter-culture as performers celebrating the Queen at the Palace.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 06:31:13 PMI recall seeing Spider-Man the most given the guy traveled around ok 1970s style roller skates.
(https://i.imgur.com/AxhnQxL.png)
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2025, 07:46:29 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 06:31:13 PMI recall seeing Spider-Man the most given the guy traveled around ok 1970s style roller skates.
(https://i.imgur.com/AxhnQxL.png)
The buildings are too low for viable web slinging transportation. That or Spider-Man is a menace! I want that roller skating arachnid prosecuted!
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 05:17:46 PMAbout my only other exposure was a MTV documentary an ex-girlfriend had showed me a decade ago.
Not the
Kiwi Crossing music video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rnka3cMAnU) for
Last Train to Awesometown??
(you're welcome)
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 08:03:21 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 05:17:46 PMAbout my only other exposure was a MTV documentary an ex-girlfriend had showed me a decade ago.
Not the Kiwi Crossing music video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rnka3cMAnU) for Last Train to Awesometown??
(you're welcome)
No, it was an actual documentary. I want to it was titled as "Plushies and Furries" something? It went into great detail what the whole scene was about (I'm unclear if it was accurate).
It's Greta. Greta Thunberg is the counterculture.
Found one. (https://www.google.com/maps/@-8.176968,112.6373717,3a,41.4y,316.8h,56.68t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slp23pCszRWS4vkpUUrjixg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D33.31543499911675%26panoid%3Dlp23pCszRWS4vkpUUrjixg%26yaw%3D316.7972145884705!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 08:21:29 PMIt's Greta. Greta Thunberg is the counterculture.
I've never understood what the deal with her was. Something about an angry climate kid? I didn't even know who she was until being on this forum.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 10:03:42 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 08:21:29 PMIt's Greta. Greta Thunberg is the counterculture.
I've never understood what the deal with her was. Something about an angry climate kid? I didn't even know who she was until being on this forum.
To be fair, she didn't really come around until about 2016 or so.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 08:05:48 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 08:03:21 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 05:17:46 PMAbout my only other exposure was a MTV documentary an ex-girlfriend had showed me a decade ago.
Not the Kiwi Crossing music video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rnka3cMAnU) for Last Train to Awesometown??
(you're welcome)
No, it was an actual documentary. I want to it was titled as "Plushies and Furries" something? It went into great detail what the whole scene was about (I'm unclear if it was accurate).
If it's a documentary you seek, I know there was this one that came-out a few years ago:
The documentary I'm thinking of would have been released probably in 2010. I started dating the person I'm thinking of shortly after I got hit by a car on February 5th that year. She found the documentary a couple months into the relationship and told me I had to see it.
What ever happened to the counterculture?
Well, we became the people our parents warned us about.
(Apologies to Jimmy Buffett for paraphrasing his lyric)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 11, 2025, 10:03:42 PMI've never understood what the deal with her was. Something about an angry climate kid?
Yep. And because she was a child, she could get away with a lot more rudeness about it, and people couldn't be rude back as easily. Now she's 22, that's all gone and she's had a slight career change into being a generic hard-left activist who isn't meeting world leaders anymore to (on their invitation) scold them.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 11, 2025, 11:42:37 PMTo be fair, she didn't really come around until about 2016 or so.
Well she was only just a teenager in 2016. Her terrible parents weren't quite terrible enough to have her be a prop for their activism and throw her into the limelight when she was a younger child.
Though she was hardly the counter-culture - all the establishment (save Trump and a few others) fawned over her. But, I guess she does actually try to practice what she preaches about emissions, which makes her very counter-culture in the elite climate activist world!
It feels to me that conservatism is the new counter culture, at least in America. There are a lot of young people (especially young men) overreacting to the overall leftward shift in politics in Western culture in the past 20-30 years. Now I'm conservative politically myself, but there are so many younger people that are trending too far in the rightward direction in rebellion of modern culture. Rebellion, as far as I'm concerned, is the way that counter culture has always worked.
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 18, 2025, 01:44:54 PMIt feels to me that conservatism is the new counter culture, at least in America. There are a lot of young people (especially young men) overreacting to the overall leftward shift in politics in Western culture in the past 20-30 years. Now I'm conservative politically myself, but there are so many younger people that are trending too far in the rightward direction in rebellion of modern culture. Rebellion, as far as I'm concerned, is the way that counter culture has always worked.
I don't disagree with this, coming from someone with a disparate view.
Maybe the counterculture is only pooing.
Quote from: bandit957 on February 18, 2025, 02:00:15 PMMaybe the counterculture is only pooing.
Don't poo when society tells you it's cool.
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 18, 2025, 01:44:54 PMIt feels to me that conservatism is the new counter culture, at least in America. There are a lot of young people (especially young men) overreacting to the overall leftward shift in politics in Western culture in the past 20-30 years. Now I'm conservative politically myself, but there are so many younger people that are trending too far in the rightward direction in rebellion of modern culture. Rebellion, as far as I'm concerned, is the way that counter culture has always worked.
I have tentatively come to the conclusion that the American political Right is no longer conservative, but has instead become radical. In that sense, I agree with you that it has become countercultural.
Quote from: bandit957 on February 18, 2025, 02:00:15 PMMaybe the counterculture is only pooing.
Bubbling is definitely countercultural.
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 18, 2025, 01:44:54 PMIt feels to me that conservatism is the new counter culture, at least in America. There are a lot of young people (especially young men) overreacting to the overall leftward shift in politics in Western culture in the past 20-30 years. Now I'm conservative politically myself, but there are so many younger people that are trending too far in the rightward direction in rebellion of modern culture. Rebellion, as far as I'm concerned, is the way that counter culture has always worked.
This is a really good observation.
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 18, 2025, 01:44:54 PMIt feels to me that conservatism is the new counter culture, at least in America. There are a lot of young people (especially young men) overreacting to the overall leftward shift in politics in Western culture in the past 20-30 years. Now I'm conservative politically myself, but there are so many younger people that are trending too far in the rightward direction in rebellion of modern culture. Rebellion, as far as I'm concerned, is the way that counter culture has always worked.
Heck, SMBC even did a comic related to this (https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/hey-3) (mainly focusing on the relationship between men and women) yesterday.
Quote from: kphoger on February 18, 2025, 04:55:21 PMI have tentatively come to the conclusion that the American political Right is no longer conservative, but has instead become radical.
Wikipedia's definition of conservatism is that it "seeks to promote and preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values." Now, I've never identified as a conservative, so I wouldn't know if that definition's wrong or not. But it's hard to see how things like renaming a body of water that has had the same name for hundreds of years, or dismantling government institutions that have existed for 50 years, is compatible with that definition.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 19, 2025, 12:09:35 AMQuote from: kphoger on February 18, 2025, 04:55:21 PMI have tentatively come to the conclusion that the American political Right is no longer conservative, but has instead become radical.
Wikipedia's definition of conservatism is that it "seeks to promote and preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values." Now, I've never identified as a conservative, so I wouldn't know if that definition's wrong or not. But it's hard to see how things like renaming a body of water that has had the same name for hundreds of years, or dismantling government institutions that have existed for 50 years, is compatible with that definition.
Basically, yeah. I'm not trying to imply that the Left is somehow
more conservative. But, as someone who does identify as a conservative, I feel less and less of an obligation to vote for any one political Party.
In my opinion, both the Left and the Right are now radical, just with vastly different goals. The Right's counter-reaction to the Left's 'progressive' agenda could itself be called a sort of 'progressive' agenda: regression is not the maintaining of the status quo, but is rather progress in the opposite direction.
More countercultural than even being a conservative these days is being a centrist, or being someone who agrees with some positions from the Left and other positions from the Right. You want to be truly countercultural? Try being both pro-immigrant and also pro-life, or being in favor of gun control but opposed to gay marriage. These days, you're expected to be all-or-nothing Left or Right, and being anything in between runs very much counter to our culture today.
I don't think Dems have adopted a progressive agenda in my lifetime. Progressives have been shunted aside in favor of centrists, whether Clinton, Obama or Biden.
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2025, 02:56:19 PMIn my opinion, both the Left and the Right are now radical, just with vastly different goals. The Right's counter-reaction to the Left's 'progressive' agenda could itself be called a sort of 'progressive' agenda: regression is not the maintaining of the status quo, but is rather progress in the opposite direction.
More countercultural than even being a conservative these days is being a centrist [...]
This all tracks. The definition of being
radical is that you seek such a profound change in the world that you are changing the very roots—
radix being Latin for root—of society. Pretty much nobody, left or right, is happy with the state of the world, so much so that they seek radical changes. But both sides are utterly at odds over what exactly needs to be changed, and the directions they each want to go are fundamentally incompatible.
In a world where both left and right are radicalized, being centrist—or even just not radical—would certainly then be countercultural, because you'd be one of the few that believes that profound changes are
not necessary!
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 11:21:41 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
I don't know if this is fully defined as a furry, but I attended a board game meetup group one night and a woman was wearing a plush bunny suit. That seemed obvious enough to me.
She was just wearing her Christmas present from Aunt Clara.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 20, 2025, 02:52:43 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 11:21:41 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 07:21:18 PMQuote from: thspfc on February 10, 2025, 07:15:25 PMI haven't seen a furry in real life in years. Which I am not complaining about.
How would you know if you did?
I don't know if this is fully defined as a furry, but I attended a board game meetup group one night and a woman was wearing a plush bunny suit. That seemed obvious enough to me.
She was just wearing her Christmas present from Aunt Clara.
If I remember right, it looked pretty similar to that.
I think that social media has increased the pressure to conform.
Quote from: kernals12 on March 10, 2025, 10:56:53 AMI think that social media has increased the pressure to conform.
While also amplifying weirdos.
Social media has made lots of formerly niche things main stream.
Quote from: kernals12 on March 10, 2025, 10:56:53 AMI think that social media has increased the pressure to conform.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:01:51 AMWhile also amplifying weirdos.
On the other hand, YouTube has allowed people who are kind of weird (which is most people) the opportunity to see others who share their weirdness, which can give them the confidence to accept who they are as an individual. This can be both good and bad. It's good because maybe what the world needs right now is exactly that person's variety of weirdness, applied in some way. It's bad because conformity isn't all bad: we are communal creatures, after all, and learning how to fit in is a valuable social skill.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 11:21:21 AMSocial media has made lots of formerly niche things main stream.
I once asked a friend if he ever watched the Technology Connections channel on YouTube, and his answer was "Of course!"
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RpoXFk-ixZc/maxresdefault.jpg)
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 11:28:12 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:01:51 AMWhile also amplifying weirdos.
On the other hand, YouTube has allowed people who are kind of weird (which is most people) the opportunity to see others who share their weirdness, which can give them the confidence to accept who they are as an individual. This can be both good and bad. It's good because maybe what the world needs right now is exactly that person's variety of weirdness, applied in some way. It's bad because conformity isn't all bad: we are communal creatures, after all, and learning how to fit in is a valuable social skill.
But it's also allowed people who engage in conspiracy theories to find other nuts to add to their echo chamber. Before the internet, someone would spout their nonsense in public, everyone would tell them to shut up, and we'd go on with our lives.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:35:37 AMBut it's also allowed people who engage in conspiracy theories to find other nuts to add to their echo chamber. Before the internet, someone would spout their nonsense in public, everyone would tell them to shut up, and we'd go on with our lives.
The government doesn't want you to know that Earth is flat.
(But don't ask me why they don't.)
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 11:39:38 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:35:37 AMBut it's also allowed people who engage in conspiracy theories to find other nuts to add to their echo chamber. Before the internet, someone would spout their nonsense in public, everyone would tell them to shut up, and we'd go on with our lives.
The government doesn't want you to know that Earth is flat.
(But don't ask me why they don't.)
I watched a flat earth documentary where they set up this elaborate experiment to prove it's flat, and then it (obviously) fails at the end, and they just shrugged and said "that's weird".
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 19, 2025, 12:09:35 AMQuote from: kphoger on February 18, 2025, 04:55:21 PMI have tentatively come to the conclusion that the American political Right is no longer conservative, but has instead become radical.
Wikipedia's definition of conservatism is that it "seeks to promote and preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values." Now, I've never identified as a conservative, so I wouldn't know if that definition's wrong or not. But it's hard to see how things like renaming a body of water that has had the same name for hundreds of years, or dismantling government institutions that have existed for 50 years, is compatible with that definition.
Stuff like "the Gulf of America" is very Madisonian 'Manifest Destiny'. Wanting to annex neighbours is such a traditional US principle that it pre-dates its founding (one of the 'destestable acts' was about enforcing borders with the neighbouring French and Indians whom the colonists wanted to settle the land of).
Buying Greenland off the Danes is something that has been a long standing, but rarely stated (eg when they tried to buy it alongside the Danish Virgin Islands, or post-WW2, or under the first Trump administration), Government policy of the US for a long long time.
A small federal government is a return to 19th Century norms, as is 'America First'...
Certainly, there's a radical streak in the Trump administration that bigs up its revolutionary counter-revolution side of things, but its harking back to America's past to be radical in seeking to conserve. The country was founded by warring against a Britain to defend the old ways of slaving, smuggling and settling.
Perhaps the best way to put is that they want to conserve the founding ideal of the US to be revolting.
It might not be your kind of conservatism (and its definitely not UK conservatism), but it's a long-standing strand in US conservatism.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:35:37 AMQuote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 11:28:12 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:01:51 AMWhile also amplifying weirdos.
On the other hand, YouTube has allowed people who are kind of weird (which is most people) the opportunity to see others who share their weirdness, which can give them the confidence to accept who they are as an individual. This can be both good and bad. It's good because maybe what the world needs right now is exactly that person's variety of weirdness, applied in some way. It's bad because conformity isn't all bad: we are communal creatures, after all, and learning how to fit in is a valuable social skill.
But it's also allowed people who engage in conspiracy theories to find other nuts to add to their echo chamber. Before the internet, someone would spout their nonsense in public, everyone would tell them to shut up, and we'd go on with our lives.
That is so true. The internet changed us.
That's why we get mad discussing politics. Before it was discussed conversationally and no flames. We discussed it among our friends and family. Today we find random people like us and it creates excitement in us.
Local news was kept local. For example that guy in Utah last December who took his frustrations out on the dealership who sold him a lemon by driving the said car through the showroom window after being refused a refund would have never been national news.
The internet has an effect on how we see things in today's culture.
Quote from: english si on March 10, 2025, 12:23:10 PMStuff like "the Gulf of America" is very Madisonian 'Manifest Destiny'. Wanting to annex neighbours is such a traditional US principle that it pre-dates its founding (one of the 'destestable acts' was about enforcing borders with the neighbouring French and Indians whom the colonists wanted to settle the land of).
Buying Greenland off the Danes is something that has been a long standing, but rarely stated (eg when they tried to buy it alongside the Danish Virgin Islands, or post-WW2, or under the first Trump administration), Government policy of the US for a long long time.
A small federal government is a return to 19th Century norms, as is 'America First'...
Certainly, there's a radical streak in the Trump administration that bigs up its revolutionary counter-revolution side of things, but its harking back to America's past to be radical in seeking to conserve. The country was founded by warring against a Britain to defend the old ways of slaving, smuggling and settling.
Perhaps the best way to put is that they want to conserve the founding ideal of the US to be revolting.
It might not be your kind of conservatism (and its definitely not UK conservatism), but it's a long-standing strand in US conservatism.
So you seem to be saying that "regression" is a subset of "conservatism". Yes, I do admit that that could be one take.
But still.
The Party that you might expect to keep longstanding government institutions in place now wants to eliminate or drastically reorganize them.
The Party that you might expect to champion rural America now wants to deport upwards of 50% of farm labor.
The Party that you might expect to disavow government overreach and rely on the separation of powers now takes every opportunity to use loopholes in the system to pass legislation.
The Party that you might expect to love free enterprise and competition has now embraced tariffs.
The Party that you might expect to reduce government spending and debt has now incurred more debt during its President's first term than the opposing Party's president had.
The Party that you might expect to follow in the footsteps of George H. W. Bush's aim of "increased immigration of skilled individuals" has now set about reducing or eliminating work visas in order "to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program".
So yes, you can say that a lot of the current Republican agenda can be traced back to earlier days. But it is also at odds in many ways with what US conservatism had become over the last few decades.
(Note that, in this post, I am not advocating for either side. I'm not weighing in on whether you should or should not support reducing the national debt, immigration, etc. I'm just pointing out that the current agenda need not be labeled "Conservative". If you don't want to vote Conservative, then this does not apply to you.)
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 01:26:17 PMI'm just pointing out that the current agenda need not be labeled "Conservative".
Absolutely - I'm just pointing out that it can be.
Websters Dictionary defines Conservative as to Preserve what has been established.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 10, 2025, 01:59:28 PMWebsters Dictionary defines Conservative as to Preserve what has been established.
Didn't look down to (b) in that definition, huh?
Quote from: english si on March 10, 2025, 12:23:10 PMStuff like "the Gulf of America" is very Madisonian 'Manifest Destiny'. Wanting to annex neighbours is such a traditional US principle that it pre-dates its founding (one of the 'destestable acts' was about enforcing borders with the neighbouring French and Indians whom the colonists wanted to settle the land of).
As opposed to annexing non-neighbors like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom
Quote from: english si on March 10, 2025, 12:23:10 PMBuying Greenland off the Danes is something that has been a long standing, but rarely stated (eg when they tried to buy it alongside the Danish Virgin Islands, or post-WW2, or under the first Trump administration), Government policy of the US for a long long time.
So, now I can't help but imagine this is how it went down:
— [someone] Man, Don, you should hear about some of the plans from America's history to buy Greenland. Ha ha!
— [Trump] You mean we can do that?
— [someone] Uh. Yeah, sure. You go ahead and get started on that, alrighty? *rolls eyes
/ later
— [someone] What? What? Geez, I didn't think he'd actually... *gets slapped in the back of the head
— [someone else] Didn't think he'd what? Have you learned nothing!
The Greenland purchase idea has been something that pops up every couple decades.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 03:33:33 PMThe Greenland purchase idea has been something that pops up every couple decades.
It's just dumber this time.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 04:04:15 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 03:33:33 PMThe Greenland purchase idea has been something that pops up every couple decades.
It's just dumber this time.
Or is it just louder? It's the first time I've ever heard of such a thing.
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 04:39:47 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 04:04:15 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 03:33:33 PMThe Greenland purchase idea has been something that pops up every couple decades.
It's just dumber this time.
Or is it just louder? It's the first time I've ever heard of such a thing.
If I'm not mistaken, every other "foray" into acquiring Greenland was via purchase, not the invasion of a NATO partner.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 04:45:02 PMIf I'm not mistaken, every other "foray" into acquiring Greenland was via purchase, not the invasion of a NATO partner.
Has he actually explicitly said that? Other than "one way or the other"? I've been keeping away from the news but chalking this one up to hype.
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 05:03:39 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 04:45:02 PMIf I'm not mistaken, every other "foray" into acquiring Greenland was via purchase, not the invasion of a NATO partner.
Has he actually explicitly said that? Other than "one way or the other"? I've been keeping away from the news but chalking this one up to hype.
He did not rule out military force. (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gzn48jwz2o)
So someone else said it. Yeah, OK.
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 05:09:08 PMSo someone else said it. Yeah, OK.
I mean, he was asked if he would rule out using military force, and he said no. That wasn't through an intermediary. Sure, someone else prompted him with the question, but you can't argue that that means he didn't say it.
Quote from: kernals12 on March 10, 2025, 10:56:53 AMI think that social media has increased the pressure to conform.
If it outs cretins who think it's appropriate to salute people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Quote from: formulanone on March 10, 2025, 07:04:37 PMIf it outs cretins who think it's appropriate salute people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Limit three drinks when posting on AARoads.
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 10:10:23 PMQuote from: formulanone on March 10, 2025, 07:04:37 PMIf it outs cretins who think it's appropriate salute people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Limit three drinks when posting on AARoads.
I've broken those rules before.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:01:57 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 10:10:23 PMQuote from: formulanone on March 10, 2025, 07:04:37 PMIf it outs cretins who think it's appropriate salute people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Limit three drinks when posting on AARoads.
I've broken those rules before.
I think seven drinks is my personal best while posting on the forum. Weddings and booze tend to get me browsing the Internet.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 11:22:05 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:01:57 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 10:10:23 PMQuote from: formulanone on March 10, 2025, 07:04:37 PMIf it outs cretins who think it's appropriate salute people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Limit three drinks when posting on AARoads.
I've broken those rules before.
I think seven drinks is my personal best while posting on the forum. Weddings and booze tend to get me browsing the Internet.
My wife is currently out of the country on vacation leaving me to be the sole caregiver for my son. Once he goes to bed, the stress gets relieved.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:25:06 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 11:22:05 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:01:57 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 10:10:23 PMQuote from: formulanone on March 10, 2025, 07:04:37 PMIf it outs cretins who think it's appropriate salute people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Limit three drinks when posting on AARoads.
I've broken those rules before.
I think seven drinks is my personal best while posting on the forum. Weddings and booze tend to get me browsing the Internet.
My wife is currently out of the country on vacation leaving me to be the sole caregiver for my son. Once he goes to bed, the stress gets relieved.
On occasion I used to consume a six pack during weekend days off (usually over 6-8 hours). My girlfriend (now wife) kept mentioning she thought it was an odd way to relax, so I stopped. A lot of my older forum posts came during that time and things around here in general were more busy.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 11:28:53 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:25:06 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 10, 2025, 11:22:05 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 10, 2025, 11:01:57 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 10:10:23 PMQuote from: formulanone on March 10, 2025, 07:04:37 PMIf it outs cretins who think it's appropriate salute people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Limit three drinks when posting on AARoads.
I've broken those rules before.
I think seven drinks is my personal best while posting on the forum. Weddings and booze tend to get me browsing the Internet.
My wife is currently out of the country on vacation leaving me to be the sole caregiver for my son. Once he goes to bed, the stress gets relieved.
On occasion I used to consume a six pack during weekend days off (usually over 6-8 hours). My girlfriend (now wife) kept mentioning she thought it was an odd way to relax, so I stopped. A lot of my older forum posts came during that time and things around here in general were more busy.
I'm a sommelier. Sommeliers drink wine. It's just in our nature.
Anything beyond three drinks leaves me feeling like crap and unable to sleep soundly. Four if they're spread out across the whole evening.
But I only really ever have anything to drink if I'm (a) cooking and eating dinner with wine, (b) enjoying a relaxing weekend afternoon cocktail, (c) chilling with the family in the evening while we watch TV, or (d) with company. In all of those situations, getting on this forum is the furthest thing from my mind. So 100% of my posts on here are 100% sober.
Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2025, 10:10:23 PMQuote from: formulanone on March 10, 2025, 07:04:37 PMIf it outs cretins who think it's appropriate salute to people while looking like a human sundial, then I'm all for their downfall into the dwellings of society's gutter.
Never mind, that's not even fair to the rainwater.
Limit three drinks when posting on AARoads.
Sorry officer, I only check my mirror once before running over sacred cows.
I haven't had three drinks in a day in over twenty years. I might intake that much in 3-6 months.
I dom't drink and therefore don't have to worry about how much I've drunk before I do anything.
Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2025, 10:31:24 AMI dom't drink and therefore don't have to worry about how much I've drunk before I do anything.
Then why the typo? :awesomeface:
Quote from: formulanone on March 11, 2025, 10:29:57 AMI haven't had three drinks in a day in over twenty years. I might intake that much in 3-6 months.
Sorry, I just assumed based on your post.
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2025, 11:09:07 AMQuote from: formulanone on March 11, 2025, 10:29:57 AMI haven't had three drinks in a day in over twenty years. I might intake that much in 3-6 months.
Sorry, I just assumed based on your post.
I was trying to say "fuck the Nazis" in a more elegant way.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 11, 2025, 10:39:07 AMQuote from: Rothman on March 11, 2025, 10:31:24 AMI dom't drink and therefore don't have to worry about how much I've drunk before I do anything.
Then why the typo? :awesomeface:
That would be a lack of...glasses.
Quote from: Rothman on March 11, 2025, 11:30:51 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 11, 2025, 10:39:07 AMQuote from: Rothman on March 11, 2025, 10:31:24 AMI dom't drink and therefore don't have to worry about how much I've drunk before I do anything.
Then why the typo? :awesomeface:
That would be a lack of...glasses.
Maybe lack of full glasses.... of booze.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 11, 2025, 11:32:37 AMQuote from: Rothman on March 11, 2025, 11:30:51 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 11, 2025, 10:39:07 AMQuote from: Rothman on March 11, 2025, 10:31:24 AMI dom't drink and therefore don't have to worry about how much I've drunk before I do anything.
Then why the typo? :awesomeface:
That would be a lack of...glasses.
Maybe lack of full glasses.... of booze.
Glad you got the pun.
Lack of glasses, drinking from the bottle instead.
Overall the counter culture just became the norm. It really didn't disappear as those from that era are in charge
Remember Bill Clinton was the first hippie to become president followed by Barack Obama later.
So the protesters of the 60s and 70s are finally in position of where the previous generation was before them.
ahhh, when does everyone believe that we'll be seeing the first pre-April of 1865 USA slave-descended POTUS?
Mike
Quote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 12:05:50 PMOverall the counter culture just became the norm. It really didn't disappear as those from that era are in charge
Remember Bill Clinton was the first hippie to become president followed by Barack Obama later.
So the protesters of the 60s and 70s are finally in position of where the previous generation was before them.
Ah yes, famous hippie Barack Obama - who first gained notoriety for skipping two days of third grade to attend Woodstock and who later burned his draft card while at the age of 10.
I'm waiting for him to send the troops in to take Greenland by force.
Quote from: DTComposer on March 11, 2025, 01:47:24 PMQuote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 12:05:50 PMOverall the counter culture just became the norm. It really didn't disappear as those from that era are in charge
Remember Bill Clinton was the first hippie to become president followed by Barack Obama later.
So the protesters of the 60s and 70s are finally in position of where the previous generation was before them.
Ah yes, famous hippie Barack Obama - who first gained notoriety for skipping two days of third grade to attend Woodstock and who later burned his draft card while at the age of 10.
I'm talking about m/o, not that he was there living the events.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 01:48:15 PMI'm waiting for him to send the troops in to take Greenland by force.
I'm waiting for Barrack Obama to act on the call to annex "all of Mexico."
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 11, 2025, 01:50:51 PMQuote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 01:48:15 PMI'm waiting for him to send the troops in to take Greenland by force.
I'm waiting for Barrack Obama to act on the call to annex "all of Mexico."
The him was a response to the post above that one.
mgk920 post about history going to repeat itself.
Apparently some other user posted while I was drafting my post to the other. I didnt expect another reply that soon to get between us :bigass:
Quote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 01:49:41 PMQuote from: DTComposer on March 11, 2025, 01:47:24 PMQuote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 12:05:50 PMOverall the counter culture just became the norm. It really didn't disappear as those from that era are in charge
Remember Bill Clinton was the first hippie to become president followed by Barack Obama later.
So the protesters of the 60s and 70s are finally in position of where the previous generation was before them.
Ah yes, famous hippie Barack Obama - who first gained notoriety for skipping two days of third grade to attend Woodstock and who later burned his draft card while at the age of 10.
I'm talking about m/o, not that he was there living the events.
Fair, but your post doesn't read that way - it implies that he was a "protesters of the 60s and 70s".
That said, what about Obama's m/o says hippie to you, other than getting stoned in high school (which was hardly an exclusively hippie behavior in the mid/late '70s)? Private prep school, Columbia and Harvard Law don't exactly scream counter-culture to me.
Quote from: DTComposer on March 11, 2025, 02:10:29 PMQuote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 01:49:41 PMQuote from: DTComposer on March 11, 2025, 01:47:24 PMQuote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 12:05:50 PMOverall the counter culture just became the norm. It really didn't disappear as those from that era are in charge
Remember Bill Clinton was the first hippie to become president followed by Barack Obama later.
So the protesters of the 60s and 70s are finally in position of where the previous generation was before them.
Ah yes, famous hippie Barack Obama - who first gained notoriety for skipping two days of third grade to attend Woodstock and who later burned his draft card while at the age of 10.
I'm talking about m/o, not that he was there living the events.
Fair, but your post doesn't read that way - it implies that he was a "protesters of the 60s and 70s".
That said, what about Obama's m/o says hippie to you, other than getting stoned in high school (which was hardly an exclusively hippie behavior in the mid/late '70s)? Private prep school, Columbia and Harvard Law don't exactly scream counter-culture to me.
When you're talking about a politician you're usually referring to politics. Yes Barack Obama was not old enough, but considering today's left is ideally aligned ( and off shooted from the counterculture) from the hippie mindset, it's safe to call anyone embracing hippie ideas to be one.
I should have been more clear on that, my bad. However with too many people talking in this computer and media world many things seem way too synonymous and you forget that not all people see the same way.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 02:39:16 PMconsidering today's left is ideally aligned ( and off shooted from the counterculture) from the hippie mindset, it's safe to call anyone embracing hippie ideas to be one.
wtf?
No, it is not safe to call everyone on the Left a 'hippie'.
By your argument, because American social conservatism has been allied with the religious Right since the early 1980s, it's safe to call anyone embracing Judeo-Christian ethics a 'Christian'.
That has a first name, and it's O-S-C-A-R.
Agreed with Kyle. I'm pretty left leaning, but I'm not handcuffing myself to trees and wearing tie-dye. I also think the Grateful Dead is quite overrated.
Quote from: kphoger on March 13, 2025, 09:41:51 AMQuote from: roadman65 on March 11, 2025, 02:39:16 PMconsidering today's left is ideally aligned ( and off shooted from the counterculture) from the hippie mindset, it's safe to call anyone embracing hippie ideas to be one.
wtf?
No, it is not safe to call everyone on the Left a 'hippie'.
By your argument, because American social conservatism has been allied with the religious Right since the early 1980s, it's safe to call anyone embracing Judeo-Christian ethics a 'Christian'.
That has a first name, and it's O-S-C-A-R.
Agreed. Today's actual left/progressives may share many of the same goals and ideals as the hippies, but their methodology is quite different.
Clinton, Obama, and Biden are considered centrists or even "Neo-liberals" (which is much more conservative in viewpoint than the name might suggest) by most progressives.
Biden is a Centrist? Yeah his campaign was billed that way but that wasn't how his presidency was steered by the end.
I'd love to another true Centrist in the Executive branch again. I don't foresee that moderate politics becoming in vogue again anytime soon.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 13, 2025, 12:49:15 PMBiden is a Centrist? Yeah his campaign was billed that way but that wasn't how his presidency was steered by the end.
It depends who you ask. People with a more global perspective will call him a centrist, while people with a more national perspective will call him a leftist.
Frankly, I find the latter more useful. Saying that both parties are, by European standards, to the right of center: this does not move a conversation in any meaningful direction 90% of the time.
I'll steer us all back to alcohol by saying I never drank alcohol in my life.
I only saw my dad drink half a bottle of beer. He had a thing against alcohol because my Grandpa, my uncle and one of my aunt's were alcoholics. Strangely though, he had a lot of vices normally associated with drug or alcohol abuse which caught up with him later in life.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on March 14, 2025, 09:23:24 AMI'll steer us all back to alcohol by saying I never drank alcohol in my life.
And you are both missing out and also 100% not. :)
Quote from: LilianaUwU on March 14, 2025, 09:23:24 AMI'll steer us all back to alcohol by saying I never drank alcohol in my life.
I did once, but I didn't inhale.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2025, 09:42:00 AMI only saw my dad drink half a bottle of beer. He had a thing against alcohol because my Grandpa, my uncle and one of my aunt's were alcoholics. Strangely though, he had a lot of vices normally associated with drug or alcohol abuse which caught up with him later in life.
My dad's side of the family had a lot of alcoholics. Presumably for that reason, my grandfather, despite being a second-generation German-American, did not drink at all. He outlived all of his siblings.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 14, 2025, 10:33:45 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on March 14, 2025, 09:23:24 AMI'll steer us all back to alcohol by saying I never drank alcohol in my life.
And you are both missing out and also 100% not. :)
Or...
Thank you for steering me back to alcohol. I didn't realize how much I missed it!
My dad died at 59 and was by far the youngest of his generation to go. Despite all that staying away from alcohol and even tobacco he ended up with an inoperable brain tumor. Every one of my Grandparents who drank and smoked heavily outlived him by at least one decade.
I should clarify that my dad was not a healthy man. He became ever overweight, had severe asthma and even ended up with cardio myopathy. That said, sometimes you really don't know when some disease is just going to spring up and take you. Brain cancer doesn't seem to have been something any healthy lifestyle choice was going to prevent.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on March 14, 2025, 09:23:24 AMI'll steer us all back to alcohol by saying I never drank alcohol in my life.
Does that mean not even a sip? I didn't think that was possible for a Canadian! :-D
I've never been drunk myself, but I've had sips of various drinks to give them a try, and I had a full beer for my friends bachelor party lol. I can't stand the taste though, it's only tolerable in the really fruity drinks which mask the alcohol. It fascinates me that people enjoy the flavour of beer and wine. :colorful:
Quote from: 7/8 on March 14, 2025, 12:02:10 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on March 14, 2025, 09:23:24 AMI'll steer us all back to alcohol by saying I never drank alcohol in my life.
Does that mean not even a sip? I didn't think that was possible for a Canadian! :-D
I've never been drunk myself, but I've had sips of various drinks to give them a try, and I had a full beer for my friends bachelor party lol. I can't stand the taste though, it's only tolerable in the really fruity drinks which mask the alcohol. It fascinates me that people enjoy the flavour of beer and wine. :colorful:
Did you see the movie Strange Brew about Canadian beer?
I'm mostly a beer guy nowadays but I'll drink pretty much anything with alcohol in it. My wife recently tasked me with "getting rid" of the extra wine from our wedding in 2019. It took about two months to get through the excess ten or so bottles.
I only ever buy beer to cook with. Don't really like it.
Quote from: Big John on March 14, 2025, 12:18:46 PMDid you see the movie Strange Brew about Canadian beer?
Sorry, I haven't seen that one. I've heard of Bob and Doug though.
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2025, 12:31:59 PMI only ever buy beer to cook with. Don't really like it.
I rarely drink beer at home, but we go to a lot of breweries. I drink mostly wine at home with a neat spirit maybe at the end of the evening for a nightcap.
I brewery hopped (no pun intended) a lot in my late 20s and early 30s, as the craft beer scene in Richmond boomed. Nowadays my wife and I will go once or twice a year. Otherwise I drink about once or twice a month. I typically stay away from liquor as I've found that it's particularly addictive to me and that's what killed my mom.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 14, 2025, 01:02:59 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 14, 2025, 12:31:59 PMI only ever buy beer to cook with. Don't really like it.
I rarely drink beer at home, but we go to a lot of breweries. I drink mostly wine at home with a neat spirit maybe at the end of the evening for a nightcap.
Beer is good for sitting down for a while and sipping on something. I drink it mostly while writing highway blogs or watching sports.
My wife has made the argument that I can sip on anything and it doesn't need to be beer. I don't necessarily disagree with the assessment but I find beer relaxing some reason. Social drinking is more her thing but isn't my bag.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2025, 01:07:21 PMI find beer relaxing some reason.
pretty sure it's the alcohol yo
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2025, 01:16:52 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2025, 01:07:21 PMI find beer relaxing some reason.
pretty sure it's the alcohol yo
I'm not so sure about that. I can get the same sensation from sipping on caffeinated drinks.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2025, 01:37:08 PMQuote from: kphoger on March 14, 2025, 01:16:52 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2025, 01:07:21 PMI find beer relaxing some reason.
pretty sure it's the alcohol yo
I'm not so sure about that. I can get the same sensation from sipping on caffeinated drinks.
There are definitely drinks that are ritualistic that aren't alcohol. My morning tea is as relaxing as my evening whiskey/mezcal.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 14, 2025, 01:40:09 PMThere are definitely drinks that are ritualistic that aren't alcohol. My morning tea is as relaxing as my evening whiskey/mezcal.
If I have a hot caffeinated tea close to bedtime, it is indeed
emotionally relaxing, but I still stand a 50% chance of not being able to get to sleep for a couple of hours.
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2025, 01:49:55 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on March 14, 2025, 01:40:09 PMThere are definitely drinks that are ritualistic that aren't alcohol. My morning tea is as relaxing as my evening whiskey/mezcal.
If I have a hot caffeinated tea close to bedtime, it is indeed emotionally relaxing, but I still stand a 50% chance of not being able to get to sleep for a couple of hours.
I wish caffeine had more of an effect on me than it does. I drink it in the morning mostly as placebo to wake me up.
I don't feel like Caffeine does much for me in terms of keeping me awake. The other day I finished about six ounces of a Red Bull my wife didn't want about an hour before bed. I didn't have trouble falling asleep or staying asleep.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2025, 01:58:37 PMI don't feel like Caffeine does much for me in terms of keeping me awake. The other day I finished about six ounces of a Red Bull my wife didn't want about an hour before bed. I didn't have trouble falling asleep or staying asleep.
Sure she didn't spike it with jäg?
Quote from: Molandfreak on March 14, 2025, 03:37:15 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on March 14, 2025, 01:58:37 PMI don't feel like Caffeine does much for me in terms of keeping me awake. The other day I finished about six ounces of a Red Bull my wife didn't want about an hour before bed. I didn't have trouble falling asleep or staying asleep.
Sure she didn't spike it with jäg?
What gets me really get you is that I have noticed an observable effect alcohol has on my resting heart rate. Two or three drinks in the evening is enough raise my resting heart rate by 2-3 BPM overnight. Caffeine doesn't seem to have any noticeable effect.