US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
Mike
Well, let's start with the MUTCD, obviously:
Quote from: MUTCD, 11th EditionPart 3 — Markings
Chapter 3H — Colored Pavement
§ 3H.03 — Aesthetic Surface Treatments
Support
01 — Aesthetic surface treatments are sometimes used between the transverse lines within a crosswalk, in islands, in medians, in shoulders, within sidewalk extensions designated by pavement markings, or in other areas outside of the traveled way.
07 — Colors used for aesthetic surface treatments shall be outside the chromaticity coordinates that define the ranges of acceptable colors for traffic control devices.
Chromaticity coordinates:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-23/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-655#Appendix-to-Subpart-F-of-Part-655
My thought is that I wish our government was focused on much more important matters than being worried about communities celebrating Pride.
On the one hand, uniformity in crosswalk design is desirable for safety's sake, and rainbows are certainly a deviation from standard crosswalk markings.
But on the other hand, their being more noticeable would just go to make drivers more likely to notice them and yield to pedestrians, wouldn't it? In the places I've been where there are rainbow crosswalks, they certainly stood out, and I didn't see drivers failing to yield at them.
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/italian-street-lines-painted-newton-nonantum/
Adams St in Nonantum, a section of Newton MA, also had to get rid of their green/white/red center line after 90 years, so something tells me this crackdown is consistent across other non-standard road markings. As usual that community overchayed hard over it.
I wonder if the red/white/blue center line on RI 114 in Bristol will bite the dust, too?
So I guess, if we're going to follow the MUTCD, then these cities can use whatever colors they like between the crosswalk lines—as long as it isn't red, orange, yellow, green, light blue, blue, purple, brown, or white.
My read is that they can do whatever they want - but only outside of the normally driven parts of roads.
Mike
Quote from: Rothman on July 03, 2025, 01:53:09 PMMy thought is that I wish our government was focused on much more important matters than being worried about communities celebrating Pride.
Yeah, like mileage based exit numbers!
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMThoughts?
With regards to the current administration, mostly intrusive ones.
The details are fuzzy, but I seem to remember a brouhaha about a rainbow painted crosswalk in Lexington that resulted in the mayor getting a cease-and-desist letter from FHWA several years ago. So this is certainly not anything new to Secretary Duffy or the Trump administration.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 04, 2025, 02:29:08 PMThe details are fuzzy, but I seem to remember a brouhaha about a rainbow painted crosswalk in Lexington that resulted in the mayor getting a cease-and-desist letter from FHWA several years ago. So this is certainly not anything new to Secretary Duffy or the Trump administration.
That was in 2017 during the first Trump Administration...
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
Mike
The short version of my thoughts are that rainbow crosswalks are fine and Sean Duffy is incompetent. The long version is probably unprintable, at least on this forum.
Here is the memorandum sent to every state:
https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/memorandum/Governors_Safe_Roads.htm
I would say this is another one on the same page:
https://apnews.com/article/ban-humorous-messages-electronic-highway-signs-3c7b0d11475d2b255f7edd197af771cc
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
If they want consistency, maybe they shouldn't have 5 different options for crosswalks in the first place.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 04, 2025, 07:05:56 PMIf they want consistency, maybe they shouldn't have 5 different options for crosswalks in the first place.
You know, honestly, that is a great point. Why
are there 5 different options for crosswalks, anyway?
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down. FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects. The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.
Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:57:45 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down. FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects. The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.
Are we still attacking personalities or talking something else?
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 09:02:27 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:57:45 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down. FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects. The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.
Are we still attacking personalities or talking something else?
I will stop attacking those personalities when they stop attacking my peers' human rights.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMYou described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhataboutismWhataboutism or whataboutery (as in "but what about X?") is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense against the original accusation.
From a logical and argumentative point of view, whataboutism is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.
The communication intent is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring).
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 09:50:52 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMYou described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
I am just saying that the bar is already set low enough. And that is before we start talking about engineering..
I don't think even seen such a crosswalk in person. Stands to reason given Fresno doesn't have much in the way of pedestrian features to speak of.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 09:52:59 PMI am just saying that the bar is already set low enough. And that is before we start talking about engineering..
I would absolutely love more DOT secretaries with any sort of DOT experience.
But whether or not Duffy sucks is entirely orthogonal to whether Buttigieg sucked or not. And whatever your opinions of him, Buttigieg is no longer even in a position to suck (so there is no need to get him to stop; if he sucks he can do it in the comfort of his own home where it doesn't bother anyone), while Duffy is actively sucking in public every day.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 10:03:32 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 09:52:59 PMI am just saying that the bar is already set low enough. And that is before we start talking about engineering..
I would absolutely love more DOT secretaries with any sort of DOT experience.
But whether or not Duffy sucks is entirely orthogonal to whether Buttigieg sucked or not. And whatever your opinions of him, Buttigieg is no longer even in a position to suck (so there is no need to get him to stop; if he sucks he can do it in the comfort of his own home where it doesn't bother anyone), while Duffy is actively sucking in public every day.
We are talking about the way things (don't) work. Usual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
And of course throwing money at problems as the preferred way of solving them works only as long as there are money to throw.
So, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMSo, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.
I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 09:02:27 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:57:45 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down. FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects. The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.
Are we still attacking personalities or talking something else?
Evidently, you're moving goalposts. We were talking about qualifications and then the results of the lack therof and how this administration has done more damage to USDOT than any other in my lifetime.
Quote from: NE2 on July 04, 2025, 10:59:25 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMSo, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.
I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.
I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMBut looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
I seem to recall at the beginning of Duffy's term of office, there was a big push to get rid of a whole bunch of those lower level professionals. We had a lower level professional from another agency who was very angry about it make a thread about it on this forum, even.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on July 04, 2025, 11:48:48 PMI don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.
I don't know of any particular LGBT organization that has done it, but interest groups volunteering to take care of potholes and trash and other things that city governments won't do in under-served areas is a way that they sometimes try to win support for whatever their cause is.
Before going after rainbow crosswalks, the current administration heavy-handedly pushed (successfully) for the local D.C. government to remove the extensive pavement markings on Black Lives Matter Plaza.
I'm not crazy about the heavy-handedness (typical for the current administration, it's going to be a long four years), or even the previous crackdown on humorous messages on VMSes. But in an area with a serious problem with pedestrians getting killed in crosswalks, I'm in favor of transportation officials tending to their knitting, and keeping their crosswalk efforts focused on pedestrian safety. Though I'm unsure about the pride markings getting in the way of motorists stopping for pedestrians carelessly crossing streets while looking at their phones. For example, the flag in Liliana's profile has plenty of white, something I think is always a good thing for crosswalks, especially at night.
WRT the competence of DOT Secretary Duffy, remember that he started his service making the right noises, yelling at the Pentagon about their flying helicopters too damn close to incoming passenger flights at adjacent National Airport, after an Army helicopter collided with an incoming jet, killing 70 people.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on July 04, 2025, 11:48:48 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 04, 2025, 10:59:25 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMSo, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.
I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.
I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.
Oh, great, didn't realize it's available that way. Can I book a couple crosswalks for some other messages?
Quote from: LilianaUwU on July 04, 2025, 11:48:48 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 04, 2025, 10:59:25 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMSo, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.
I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.
I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.
It's not because of a lack of sleep, I still find the idea funny.
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
The previous guy was mayor of a city for 8 years, leading transportation initiatives. His city contained a public bus system, a commercial airport, passenger train service on two lines. He's also one of the most intelligent people in government.
How many public transit options and commercial airports are there in WI-07?
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is
Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.
But what are people's roadgeek opinions? Are colorful, decorative, non-standard pavement markings something that should be allowed or disallowed? Imagine a world in which the rainbow didn't have any connotations other than just the thing in the sky on a rainy day. What then?
Quote from: kphoger on July 05, 2025, 10:17:49 AMBut what are people's roadgeek opinions? Are colorful, decorative, non-standard pavement markings something that should be allowed or disallowed? Imagine a world in which the rainbow didn't have any connotations other than just the thing in the sky on a rainy day. What then?
If someone is approaching a multi-colored crosswalk and they slow down in caution, then I don't get how that is per se bad? It certainly doesn't seem contrary to the mindset of making the crosswalk safe.
I've seen crosswalks with artwork in them. Something that reflects the history or culture of the city. Would those be banned too? Or just colors that are "offensive" to the powers that be?
Quote from: GaryV on July 05, 2025, 10:28:11 AMI've seen crosswalks with artwork in them. Something that reflects the history or culture of the city. Would those be banned too? Or just colors that are "offensive" to the powers that be?
I did address that earlier on:
Quote from: kphoger on July 03, 2025, 01:49:44 PMWell, let's start with the MUTCD, obviously:
Quote from: MUTCD, 11th EditionPart 3 — Markings
Chapter 3H — Colored Pavement
§ 3H.03 — Aesthetic Surface Treatments
Support
01 — Aesthetic surface treatments are sometimes used between the transverse lines within a crosswalk, in islands, in medians, in shoulders, within sidewalk extensions designated by pavement markings, or in other areas outside of the traveled way.
07 — Colors used for aesthetic surface treatments shall be outside the chromaticity coordinates that define the ranges of acceptable colors for traffic control devices.
Chromaticity coordinates:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-23/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-655#Appendix-to-Subpart-F-of-Part-655
Quote from: kphoger on July 03, 2025, 02:36:03 PMSo I guess, if we're going to follow the MUTCD, then these cities can use whatever colors they like between the crosswalk lines—as long as it isn't red, orange, yellow, green, light blue, blue, purple, brown, or white.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
Duffy's only interaction with transportation prior to now was meeting his wife on MTV's "Road Rules."
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 05, 2025, 09:53:13 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.
I followed that story in real time, including official documents. It was not bad, it was a horrible failure which should be dealt with in criminal court.
Quote from: GaryV on July 05, 2025, 10:28:11 AMI've seen crosswalks with artwork in them. Something that reflects the history or culture of the city. Would those be banned too? Or just colors that are "offensive" to the powers that be?
I can see government agencies using that for government purposes.
Outsourcing to nonprofit or for profit? It should be available to any such entity willing to pay. It will escalate quickly...
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 12:24:23 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMBut looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
I seem to recall at the beginning of Duffy's term of office, there was a big push to get rid of a whole bunch of those lower level professionals. We had a lower level professional from another agency who was very angry about it make a thread about it on this forum, even.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on July 04, 2025, 11:48:48 PMI don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.
I don't know of any particular LGBT organization that has done it, but interest groups volunteering to take care of potholes and trash and other things that city governments won't do in under-served areas is a way that they sometimes try to win support for whatever their cause is.
- until they run headlong into the city's Department of Public Works ('DPW') employees' union . . .
Mike
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 11:04:38 AMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 05, 2025, 09:53:13 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.
I followed that story in real time, including official documents. It was not bad, it was a horrible failure which should be dealt with in criminal court.
Wonder why others didn't follow your well-informed opinion on this, then.
Quote from: kphoger on July 05, 2025, 10:17:49 AMBut what are people's roadgeek opinions? Are colorful, decorative, non-standard pavement markings something that should be allowed or disallowed? Imagine a world in which the rainbow didn't have any connotations other than just the thing in the sky on a rainy day. What then?
Maintenance of special paint is a b$%^&.
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 01:21:28 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 11:04:38 AMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on July 05, 2025, 09:53:13 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers. Thoughts?
I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.
Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.
In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.
Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.
To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.
I followed that story in real time, including official documents. It was not bad, it was a horrible failure which should be dealt with in criminal court.
Wonder why others didn't follow your well-informed opinion on this, then.
What was the plane you flew last time?
(Version for non-aa public: which interstates did you drive last time you were away from home?)
|kalvado|, I think people forget you're also a plane-geek.
Quote from: kphoger on July 05, 2025, 02:06:57 PM|kalvado|, I think people forget you're also a plane-geek.
Yes, it plays a role - although I prefer to think about it as "interested in infrastructure".
And I wonder how many people outside this forum would be able to say something about landmark FHWA achievements, like Clearview or mileage based exit numbers.
I would say FHWA role is much smaller in everyday travel, so even if Comic Sans is approved to replace Clearview, few people would ever notice. FAA has a bit more direct effect on me-the-travellet, so their work quality is more obvious.
As long as the crosswalk is clearly identifiable as a crosswalk, then the design is fine.
Seattle's are approaching a decade in age and are definitely in need of a repaint. Or even better, replacing them with bricks or a different paver that would be more distinct (and resistant to wear).
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this
isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
Quote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMYou are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts.
There is no desperate need for budget cuts.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 07:02:00 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMYou are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts.
There is no desperate need for budget cuts.
You would probably argue "tax the rich" is the answer. I suspect the answer is "rich become super rich because government frivolous spending ends up in a stock market".
So you are not wrong, but it may be a half of the answer at best.
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:19:10 PMI suspect the answer is "rich become super rich because government frivolous spending ends up in a stock market".
Do you have anything backing up that suspicion, or did you find it in your basement behind the Christmas decorations?
If the government isn't building roads, people like Valerie aren't getting paid, and as far as I know Valerie is not a stock market. (I might be wrong. She can correct me if she is, possibly by rallying by a few points.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 07:23:40 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:19:10 PMI suspect the answer is "rich become super rich because government frivolous spending ends up in a stock market".
Do you have anything backing up that suspicion, or did you find it in your basement behind the Christmas decorations?
If the government isn't building roads, people like Valerie aren't getting paid, and as far as I know Valerie is not a stock market. (I might be wrong. She can correct me if she is, possibly by rallying by a few points.)
That's absolutely part of the problem. Spending cuts echo multifold within economy. But what if there is no money to spend to begin with? And money just flows away.
You may talk about internal taxes all you want, but external trade deficit is still $10 per person per day. That is the part probably impossible to close by redistribution of internal flows.
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:44:33 PMThat's absolutely part of the problem. Spending cuts echo multifold within economy. But what if there is no money to spend to begin with?
What if the moon was made of pudding?
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:44:33 PMYou may talk about internal taxes all you want, but external trade deficit is still $10 per person per day.
Why does this matter at all?
I have a massive trade deficit with WinCo. I buy their groceries all the time but they never buy playing cards or road signs from me. The world goes round.
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:44:33 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 07:23:40 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:19:10 PMI suspect the answer is "rich become super rich because government frivolous spending ends up in a stock market".
Do you have anything backing up that suspicion, or did you find it in your basement behind the Christmas decorations?
If the government isn't building roads, people like Valerie aren't getting paid, and as far as I know Valerie is not a stock market. (I might be wrong. She can correct me if she is, possibly by rallying by a few points.)
That's absolutely part of the problem. Spending cuts echo multifold within economy. But what if there is no money to spend to begin with? And money just flows away.
You may talk about internal taxes all you want, but external trade deficit is still $10 per person per day. That is the part probably impossible to close by redistribution of internal flows.
Trade deficits really aren't a problem. Its just one country makes stuff (often because it is relatively poor) that another country purchases (often because it is relatively rich.)
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 05, 2025, 08:50:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:44:33 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 07:23:40 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:19:10 PMI suspect the answer is "rich become super rich because government frivolous spending ends up in a stock market".
Do you have anything backing up that suspicion, or did you find it in your basement behind the Christmas decorations?
If the government isn't building roads, people like Valerie aren't getting paid, and as far as I know Valerie is not a stock market. (I might be wrong. She can correct me if she is, possibly by rallying by a few points.)
That's absolutely part of the problem. Spending cuts echo multifold within economy. But what if there is no money to spend to begin with? And money just flows away.
You may talk about internal taxes all you want, but external trade deficit is still $10 per person per day. That is the part probably impossible to close by redistribution of internal flows.
Trade deficits really aren't a problem. Its just one country makes stuff (often because it is relatively poor) that another country purchases (often because it is relatively rich.)
Lol, what can I say.. did you guys ever defaulted on your credit cards? You know, when you make less than you spend and it catches you at some point?
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 09:14:56 PMLol, what can I say.. did you guys ever defaulted on your credit cards? You know, when you make less than you spend and it catches you at some point?
Except that's not what's happening at all.
I live in Las Vegas. We make hardly anything here, because most agriculture and manufacturing processes require water and we don't have that. If you calculated trade deficits per-state we'd have a massive trade deficit with California and Oregon because we have to import pretty much all our food from those two states. (I guess Utah and Idaho too.)
Yet the city of Las Vegas still brings in enough money in
services—entertainment primarily—to power the entire state of Nevada to the point that it is self-sustaining with no income taxes. But because none of that is physical goods, none of it counts toward the trade deficit.
Somehow Nevada still continues to thrive, though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 09:23:27 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 09:14:56 PMLol, what can I say.. did you guys ever defaulted on your credit cards? You know, when you make less than you spend and it catches you at some point?
Except that's not what's happening at all.
I live in Las Vegas. We make hardly anything here, because most agriculture and manufacturing processes require water and we don't have that. If you calculated trade deficits per-state we'd have a massive trade deficit with California and Oregon because we have to import pretty much all our food from those two states. (I guess Utah and Idaho too.)
Yet the city of Las Vegas still brings in enough money in services—entertainment primarily—to power the entire state of Nevada to the point that it is self-sustaining with no income taxes. But because none of that is physical goods, none of it counts toward the trade deficit.
Somehow Nevada still continues to thrive, though.
The trade deficit is a grand total of goods and services paid for by the country, less goods and services acquired from abroad. That is, how much money crossed the border in each direction.
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 09:14:56 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on July 05, 2025, 08:50:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:44:33 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 07:23:40 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 07:19:10 PMI suspect the answer is "rich become super rich because government frivolous spending ends up in a stock market".
Do you have anything backing up that suspicion, or did you find it in your basement behind the Christmas decorations?
If the government isn't building roads, people like Valerie aren't getting paid, and as far as I know Valerie is not a stock market. (I might be wrong. She can correct me if she is, possibly by rallying by a few points.)
That's absolutely part of the problem. Spending cuts echo multifold within economy. But what if there is no money to spend to begin with? And money just flows away.
You may talk about internal taxes all you want, but external trade deficit is still $10 per person per day. That is the part probably impossible to close by redistribution of internal flows.
Trade deficits really aren't a problem. Its just one country makes stuff (often because it is relatively poor) that another country purchases (often because it is relatively rich.)
Lol, what can I say.. did you guys ever defaulted on your credit cards? You know, when you make less than you spend and it catches you at some point?
Holy sh*t is that a terrible analogy. I make money doing my job, and then I buy things that other people make. There is no debt involved. That's exactly what is happening on a national scale.
It's a made up problem.
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 09:30:00 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 09:23:27 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 09:14:56 PMLol, what can I say.. did you guys ever defaulted on your credit cards? You know, when you make less than you spend and it catches you at some point?
Except that's not what's happening at all.
I live in Las Vegas. We make hardly anything here, because most agriculture and manufacturing processes require water and we don't have that. If you calculated trade deficits per-state we'd have a massive trade deficit with California and Oregon because we have to import pretty much all our food from those two states. (I guess Utah and Idaho too.)
Yet the city of Las Vegas still brings in enough money in services—entertainment primarily—to power the entire state of Nevada to the point that it is self-sustaining with no income taxes. But because none of that is physical goods, none of it counts toward the trade deficit.
Somehow Nevada still continues to thrive, though.
The trade deficit is a grand total of goods and services paid for by the country, less goods and services acquired from abroad. That is, how much money crossed the border in each direction.
When I buy things from Target, all of the money goes in one direction too. Do I have a trade deficit with Target? No, because in return for the money, I am buying items I believe are at least of equal value.
That's exact what is going on here. The money that is "crossing the border" is being used to purchase goods that are also "crossing the border."
How cool are we as a collective hobby when we start a rousing discussion over non-standard crosswalks only to segway wildly into trade deficits?
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Quote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
If there's such a desperate need for budget cuts, then how can we possibly afford the tax cuts that just passed Congress? You don't take a lower-paying job when you're already unable to afford to pay the bills.
Quote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 10:49:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
If there's such a desperate need for budget cuts, then how can we possibly afford the tax cuts that just passed Congress? You don't take a lower-paying job when you're already unable to afford to pay the bills.
Oh, hey, there you are. Can you confirm that you're not a stock market real quick?
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2025, 10:57:08 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 10:49:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
If there's such a desperate need for budget cuts, then how can we possibly afford the tax cuts that just passed Congress? You don't take a lower-paying job when you're already unable to afford to pay the bills.
Oh, hey, there you are. Can you confirm that you're not a stock market real quick?
I'm not a stock market (at least as far as I'm aware; there are times when I'm half convinced that the universe is a simulation and I'm just an AI that accidentally became sentient), though that does remind me, I really need to see if there's any way I can protect my money from the rapidly declining value of the US dollar.
I wish I was a stock market. How do I become one?
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 11:36:33 PMI wish I was a stock market. How do I become one?
You have your organs replaced by a mechanical stock ticker.
Quote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 10:49:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
If there's such a desperate need for budget cuts, then how can we possibly afford the tax cuts that just passed Congress? You don't take a lower-paying job when you're already unable to afford to pay the bills.
Did I say that's a good idea? I can see
some logic behind that, but just enough logic to react with raised eyebrows - as opposed to banging head against the wall.
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
A few thousand more in taxes will not break billionaires. Hell, a few hundred thousand more in taxes will not break billionaires.
It really
is that simple.
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
You have demonstrated little understanding of reality on this matter. All I know is that FHWA is now crippled and projects are now being delayed because of the arbitrary layoffs inflicted by DOGE. In other words, there are too few people to handle the funding that is available.
I find the idea of the trust fund to be "in the red" to be a ridiculous reason to justify FHWA layoffs. Ratchet back apportionments to states if that is somehow some portion of the federal deficit. Firing FHWA employees doesn't help with that regard.
Of course, I note that your silly trade deficit argument's disappeared...
We really need to do something about misinformation in this country and how it affects voting and other actions. That said, I don't have much hope in finding a solution to that, or the current increasing deficit in critical thinking...
Things will just get worse.
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 09:39:11 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
You have demonstrated little understanding of reality on this matter. All I know is that FHWA is now crippled and projects are now being delayed because of the arbitrary layoffs inflicted by DOGE. In other words, there are too few people to handle the funding that is available.
I find the idea of the trust fund to be "in the red" to be a ridiculous reason to justify FHWA layoffs. Ratchet back apportionments to states if that is somehow some portion of the federal deficit. Firing FHWA employees doesn't help with that regard.
Of course, I note that your silly trade deficit argument's disappeared...
We really need to do something about misinformation in this country and how it affects voting and other actions. That said, I don't have much hope in finding a solution to that, or the current increasing deficit in critical thinking...
Things will just get worse.
Trade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
Quote from: cu2010 on July 06, 2025, 09:32:23 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
A few thousand more in taxes will not break billionaires. Hell, a few hundred thousand more in taxes will not break billionaires.
It really is that simple.
It's estimated that US has about 800 billionaires. Last administration was overspending by about $10B per day. So taxing billionaires by $1B each would close the gap for less than a quarter. Now how much more tax are
you willing to pay?
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:52:46 AMQuote from: cu2010 on July 06, 2025, 09:32:23 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
A few thousand more in taxes will not break billionaires. Hell, a few hundred thousand more in taxes will not break billionaires.
It really is that simple.
It's estimated that US has about 800 billionaires. Last administration was overspending by about $10B per day. So taxing billionaires by $1B each would close the gap for less than a quarter. Now how much more tax are you willing to pay?
If paying a little bit more in taxes means I have safe roads to drive on, food on my table, healthcare for me and my family, and the peace of mind of not having to worry about losing my job because of the current administration conning the American public by hacking and slashing funding to critical safety nets while forking over billions to deport people who have committed no crimes without due process, yeah, I'm okay with that.
Remember that Fox News paid a $787M settlement for spreading lies on the air.
/this thread has spiraled out of control and should probably be shut down
What exactly has been said that is "lock" worthy in this thread? Does several people going on a tangent about trade deficits constitute merit a lock?
I think my summary of this thread was on the nose. The only difference from Page 3 is that we are now growing Goat Quote Pyramids.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 05, 2025, 09:45:37 PMHow cool are we as a collective hobby when we start a rousing discussion over non-standard crosswalks only to segway wildly into trade deficits?
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 09:39:11 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
You have demonstrated little understanding of reality on this matter. All I know is that FHWA is now crippled and projects are now being delayed because of the arbitrary layoffs inflicted by DOGE. In other words, there are too few people to handle the funding that is available.
I find the idea of the trust fund to be "in the red" to be a ridiculous reason to justify FHWA layoffs. Ratchet back apportionments to states if that is somehow some portion of the federal deficit. Firing FHWA employees doesn't help with that regard.
Of course, I note that your silly trade deficit argument's disappeared...
We really need to do something about misinformation in this country and how it affects voting and other actions. That said, I don't have much hope in finding a solution to that, or the current increasing deficit in critical thinking...
Things will just get worse.
Trade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
Again, your post demonstrates a misunderstanding of how funding and payments are arranged and a lack of a sound logic chain given actual information. But, as always, stubborness defeats reason and actuality...which is why I say things will get worse.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 10:03:19 AMWhat exactly has been said that is "lock" worthy in this thread? Does several people going on a tangent about trade deficits constitute merit a lock?
I think my summary of this thread was on the nose. The only difference from Page 3 is that we are now growing Goat Quote Pyramids.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 05, 2025, 09:45:37 PMHow cool are we as a collective hobby when we start a rousing discussion over non-standard crosswalks only to segway wildly into trade deficits?
Perhaps futility should be a considered factor in locking threads...
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 10:06:24 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 09:39:11 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
You have demonstrated little understanding of reality on this matter. All I know is that FHWA is now crippled and projects are now being delayed because of the arbitrary layoffs inflicted by DOGE. In other words, there are too few people to handle the funding that is available.
I find the idea of the trust fund to be "in the red" to be a ridiculous reason to justify FHWA layoffs. Ratchet back apportionments to states if that is somehow some portion of the federal deficit. Firing FHWA employees doesn't help with that regard.
Of course, I note that your silly trade deficit argument's disappeared...
We really need to do something about misinformation in this country and how it affects voting and other actions. That said, I don't have much hope in finding a solution to that, or the current increasing deficit in critical thinking...
Things will just get worse.
Trade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
Again, your post demonstrates a misunderstanding of how funding and payments are arranged and a lack of a sound logic chain given actual information. But, as always, stubborness defeats reason and actuality...which is why I say things will get worse.
Looks like you are missing the forest behind the trees. You may look on detailed payment structure and all that, but remember to look at the totals. And if totals don't add up - it's not a problem with how payments work, it's a problem on a grand scale.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 10:03:19 AMWhat exactly has been said that is "lock" worthy in this thread? Does several people going on a tangent about trade deficits constitute merit a lock?
I think my summary of this thread was on the nose. The only difference from Page 3 is that we are now growing Goat Quote Pyramids.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 05, 2025, 09:45:37 PMHow cool are we as a collective hobby when we start a rousing discussion over non-standard crosswalks only to segway wildly into trade deficits?
It was through the personnel policies, both political appointes and agency rank and file. Apparently a technical decision is enough to trigger people into discussion on personalilites and policies.
There was something vaguely similar in a Clearview story, on a much smaller scale though.
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 10:09:45 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 10:06:24 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 09:39:11 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
You have demonstrated little understanding of reality on this matter. All I know is that FHWA is now crippled and projects are now being delayed because of the arbitrary layoffs inflicted by DOGE. In other words, there are too few people to handle the funding that is available.
I find the idea of the trust fund to be "in the red" to be a ridiculous reason to justify FHWA layoffs. Ratchet back apportionments to states if that is somehow some portion of the federal deficit. Firing FHWA employees doesn't help with that regard.
Of course, I note that your silly trade deficit argument's disappeared...
We really need to do something about misinformation in this country and how it affects voting and other actions. That said, I don't have much hope in finding a solution to that, or the current increasing deficit in critical thinking...
Things will just get worse.
Trade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
Again, your post demonstrates a misunderstanding of how funding and payments are arranged and a lack of a sound logic chain given actual information. But, as always, stubborness defeats reason and actuality...which is why I say things will get worse.
Looks like you are missing the forest behind the trees. You may look on detailed payment structure and all that, but remember to look at the totals. And if totals don't add up - it's not a problem with how payments work, it's a problem on a grand scale.
For Pete's sake, understanding the trees informs where and how cuts should be made. Otherwise, you're just a toddler with a meat cleaver, which DOGE definitely was, given the subsequent negative effects of its actions.
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 10:26:11 AMFor Pete's sake, understanding the trees informs where and how cuts should be made. Otherwise, you're just a toddler with a meat cleaver, which DOGE definitely was,
given the subsequent negative effects of its actions.
Oh, believe it or not, I am with you here. What is better - inaction or idiotic action?
...
Imagine a hospital room with a very sick patient. A door slams open and a new doctor walks in.
-Ok, what we got here... Let me look at your file... khm.... let me palpate your belly. khhhm... You have a late stage cancer! How are they treating you? ASPIRIN??? You need urgent surgery!! GOOD THING I HAVE MY BIG KNIFE WITH ME!!! ANESTHESIA??? NO TIME FOR THAT CRAP!
As the OP for this thread, it is time to lock it down. is well past the point where it has run its course.
Mike
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 10:26:11 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 10:09:45 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 10:06:24 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 09:39:11 AMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 07:04:48 AMQuote from: Rothman on July 05, 2025, 09:50:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 05, 2025, 04:59:19 PMQuote from: vdeane on July 05, 2025, 04:34:21 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 10:14:36 PMUsual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
A few reasons why there are a lot fewer people there. I'm most familiar with the NY division since I know people there, but they lost a very large chunk of people in the last six months. Not many retirements, either. They lost a couple (which percentage-wise is a lot, since division offices aren't very big) in the DOGE layoffs, and between those, the current administration making working conditions a lot worse (r/FedNews can summarize that a lot better than I can, but suffice to say this isn't a case of "they won't let us telecommute any more so I quit"), and threats of future, more wide-scale layoffs, a very large chunk of staff took the last deferred resignation offer. Two of the displaced feds now work for NYSDOT.
You are talking about short term trends, which are largely driven by desperate need for budget cuts. There are also a long term trends, you actually gave a very interesting insight at some point when talking about very nysdot conservative design approaches.... That was a few years ago...
This b.s. stinks very, very strongly.
ETA: Egads...Trade deficit...tied to layoffs at FHWA? The absurdities abound.
I am just tired of crap like this...
Ok, simplified version for DOT engineers: in 2024, highway trust fund balance was $26.7B in red. That is $85 a year per capita.
Of course, you would say "step up taxes to close the gap", and of course I would be with you if it was an isolated issue. but it's one of many soars. And I am not sure too many people can pay a few more thousand in taxes a year as required to start closing gaps. Even if they can afford another $100 in gas taxes.
With that, why do you need people in offices if there are no underlying budgets?
You have demonstrated little understanding of reality on this matter. All I know is that FHWA is now crippled and projects are now being delayed because of the arbitrary layoffs inflicted by DOGE. In other words, there are too few people to handle the funding that is available.
I find the idea of the trust fund to be "in the red" to be a ridiculous reason to justify FHWA layoffs. Ratchet back apportionments to states if that is somehow some portion of the federal deficit. Firing FHWA employees doesn't help with that regard.
Of course, I note that your silly trade deficit argument's disappeared...
We really need to do something about misinformation in this country and how it affects voting and other actions. That said, I don't have much hope in finding a solution to that, or the current increasing deficit in critical thinking...
Things will just get worse.
Trade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
Again, your post demonstrates a misunderstanding of how funding and payments are arranged and a lack of a sound logic chain given actual information. But, as always, stubborness defeats reason and actuality...which is why I say things will get worse.
Looks like you are missing the forest behind the trees. You may look on detailed payment structure and all that, but remember to look at the totals. And if totals don't add up - it's not a problem with how payments work, it's a problem on a grand scale.
For Pete's sake, understanding the trees informs where and how cuts should be made. Otherwise, you're just a toddler with a meat cleaver, which DOGE definitely was, given the subsequent negative effects of its actions.
Come on people, consider what you are doing to Pete's welfare. :-/
Quote from: mgk920 on July 06, 2025, 12:06:48 PMAs the OP for this thread, it is time to lock it down. is well past the point where it has run its course.
Mike
It is in the hands (hooves?) or Goat Jesus now.
Pete seems to always be in trouble for all the things done for his sake.
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMTrade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
A budget deficit CAN be a problem. Government spending more and going into debt is completely manageable if interest payments are reasonsble.
A trade deficit is rarely a problem. There are some circumstances where one country having a monopoly on a critical product can be problematic, but normally they are absolutely fine - and in fact the word "deficit" itself is wholly inaccurate.
I'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Is that for Ukraine or pigs?
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 10:33:28 AMImagine a hospital room with a very sick patient. A door slams open and a new doctor walks in.
-Ok, what we got here... Let me look at your file... khm.... let me palpate your belly. khhhm... You have a late stage cancer! How are they treating you? ASPIRIN??? You need urgent surgery!! GOOD THING I HAVE MY BIG KNIFE WITH ME!!! ANESTHESIA??? NO TIME FOR THAT CRAP!
That analogy reminds me of the JibJab "Ahnuld for Governor" video, specifically the part where he vows to "eliminate all costs from the healthcare system".
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 10:26:11 AMFor Pete's sake,
Which Pete? Buttigieg?
Quote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 03:13:59 PMQuote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Is that for Ukraine or pigs?
Fuck you NE2. Seriously. I have people I care about that are cops and I hope you never have to deal with the horrors they deal with daily trying to protect us. The only pig here is you Florida man.
Quote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2025, 03:41:27 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 03:13:59 PMQuote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Is that for Ukraine or pigs?
Fuck you NE2. Seriously. I have people I care about that are cops and I hope you never have to deal with the horrors they deal with daily trying to protect us. The only pig here is you Florida man.
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Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 06, 2025, 02:49:07 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMTrade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
A budget deficit CAN be a problem. Government spending more and going into debt is completely manageable if interest payments are reasonsble.
Debt service was something like $2500 or $3000 per capita last year, depending on where you look. More than defense budget. Is that reasonable?
It is going to be higher this year though.
Quote from: vdeane on July 06, 2025, 03:39:36 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 10:33:28 AMImagine a hospital room with a very sick patient. A door slams open and a new doctor walks in.
-Ok, what we got here... Let me look at your file... khm.... let me palpate your belly. khhhm... You have a late stage cancer! How are they treating you? ASPIRIN??? You need urgent surgery!! GOOD THING I HAVE MY BIG KNIFE WITH ME!!! ANESTHESIA??? NO TIME FOR THAT CRAP!
That analogy reminds me of the JibJab "Ahnuld for Governor" video, specifically the part where he vows to "eliminate all costs from the healthcare system".
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 10:26:11 AMFor Pete's sake,
Which Pete? Buttigieg?
Too bad they removed the "like" button from the forum!
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2025, 02:40:20 PMPete seems to always be in trouble for all the things done for his sake.
I strongly suspect that many of the things people claim ought to be done for Pete's sake have little to do with Pete's actual well-being.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
As I've already reiterated, blue lines on the pavement—assuming they are within the chromaticity coordinates approved for traffic control devices—are already a violation of the MUTCD.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Quote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 03:13:59 PMIs that for Ukraine or pigs?
When they were told to in 2017, nothing happened. After all,
as ABC News said (https://6abc.com/new-jersey-towns-paint-center-lines-blue/1697500/), it was "unclear what happens if they don't".
Quote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 04:01:41 PMQuote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2025, 03:41:27 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 03:13:59 PMQuote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Is that for Ukraine or pigs?
Fuck you NE2. Seriously. I have people I care about that are cops and I hope you never have to deal with the horrors they deal with daily trying to protect us. The only pig here is you Florida man.
🫀🫀🫀
You must live a real crap life. I hope you are a better human IRL than you are here. So sad that your crap gets enabled here only because leaders here agree with your extremist nonsense. Can only imagine how this forum gets viewed from the outside with stuff like this...
Quote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 04:05:47 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on July 06, 2025, 02:49:07 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMTrade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
A budget deficit CAN be a problem. Government spending more and going into debt is completely manageable if interest payments are reasonsble.
Debt service was something like $2500 or $3000 per capita last year, depending on where you look. More than defense budget. Is that reasonable?
It is going to be higher this year though.
That is likely not reasonable. The problem is that no one in charge truly cares about the deficit.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 06, 2025, 04:28:42 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 04:05:47 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on July 06, 2025, 02:49:07 PMQuote from: kalvado on July 06, 2025, 09:48:14 AMTrade deficit and budget deficit are certainly part of underlying economic situation. I am with you that implementation of cuts is crude at best, but the need for cuts is absolutely there
And there is certainly huge deficit in public critical thinking, moreso among government employees. But that is a different story.
A budget deficit CAN be a problem. Government spending more and going into debt is completely manageable if interest payments are reasonsble.
Debt service was something like $2500 or $3000 per capita last year, depending on where you look. More than defense budget. Is that reasonable?
It is going to be higher this year though.
That is likely not reasonable. The problem is that no one in charge truly cares about the deficit.
I suspect at this point they actually have to care. And a lot of ongoing things are explained by that. Not that "care" and "capable of managing the issue" are synonymous though.
Quote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2025, 04:26:44 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 04:01:41 PMQuote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2025, 03:41:27 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 03:13:59 PMQuote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Is that for Ukraine or pigs?
Fuck you NE2. Seriously. I have people I care about that are cops and I hope you never have to deal with the horrors they deal with daily trying to protect us. The only pig here is you Florida man.
🫀🫀🫀
You must live a real crap life. I hope you are a better human IRL than you are here. So sad that your crap gets enabled here only because leaders here agree with your extremist nonsense. Can only imagine how this forum gets viewed from the outside with stuff like this...
🐖🐖🐖
Quote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 04:49:22 PMQuote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2025, 04:26:44 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 04:01:41 PMQuote from: SectorZ on July 06, 2025, 03:41:27 PMQuote from: NE2 on July 06, 2025, 03:13:59 PMQuote from: Mr. Matté on July 06, 2025, 03:07:54 PMI'll believe it as soon as they advocate just as much for removing blue lines (https://maps.app.goo.gl/u5kUwLPfRuRntUP2A) between double yellow lines.
Is that for Ukraine or pigs?
Fuck you NE2. Seriously. I have people I care about that are cops and I hope you never have to deal with the horrors they deal with daily trying to protect us. The only pig here is you Florida man.
🫀🫀🫀
You must live a real crap life. I hope you are a better human IRL than you are here. So sad that your crap gets enabled here only because leaders here agree with your extremist nonsense. Can only imagine how this forum gets viewed from the outside with stuff like this...
🐖🐖🐖
Thank you for confirming you have nothing productive to contribute or a cogent argument to counter with.
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What grieves me the most is that you killed my Goat Quote Pyramid.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 06, 2025, 04:56:04 PMWhat grieves me the most is that you killed my Goat Quote Pyramid.
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