No more 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA?

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't think even seen such a crosswalk in person.  Stands to reason given Fresno doesn't have much in the way of pedestrian features to speak of. 

[Scott5114]

I am just saying that the bar is already set low enough. And that is before we start talking about engineering.. 

I would absolutely love more DOT secretaries with any sort of DOT experience.

But whether or not Duffy sucks is entirely orthogonal to whether Buttigieg sucked or not. And whatever your opinions of him, Buttigieg is no longer even in a position to suck (so there is no need to get him to stop; if he sucks he can do it in the comfort of his own home where it doesn't bother anyone), while Duffy is actively sucking in public every day.

[kalvado]

I am just saying that the bar is already set low enough. And that is before we start talking about engineering.. 

I would absolutely love more DOT secretaries with any sort of DOT experience.

But whether or not Duffy sucks is entirely orthogonal to whether Buttigieg sucked or not. And whatever your opinions of him, Buttigieg is no longer even in a position to suck (so there is no need to get him to stop; if he sucks he can do it in the comfort of his own home where it doesn't bother anyone), while Duffy is actively sucking in public every day.

We are talking about the way things (don't) work. Usual response is that while some top brass are political appointes, lower level bureaucracy stays and keeps things going. But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.
And of course throwing money at problems as the preferred way of solving them works only as long as there are money to throw.
So, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.

[NE2]

So, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.

I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.

[Rothman]

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.

You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.

My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down.  FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects.  The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.

Are we still attacking personalities or talking something else?

Evidently, you're moving goalposts.  We were talking about qualifications and then the results of the lack therof and how this administration has done more damage to USDOT than any other in my lifetime.

[LilianaUwU]

So, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.

I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.

I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.

[Scott5114]

But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.

I seem to recall at the beginning of Duffy's term of office, there was a big push to get rid of a whole bunch of those lower level professionals. We had a lower level professional from another agency who was very angry about it make a thread about it on this forum, even.

I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.

I don't know of any particular LGBT organization that has done it, but interest groups volunteering to take care of potholes and trash and other things that city governments won't do in under-served areas is a way that they sometimes try to win support for whatever their cause is.

[oscar]

Before going after rainbow crosswalks, the current administration heavy-handedly pushed (successfully) for the local D.C. government to remove the extensive pavement markings on Black Lives Matter Plaza.

I'm not crazy about the heavy-handedness (typical for the current administration, it's going to be a long four years), or even the previous crackdown on humorous messages on VMSes. But in an area with a serious problem with pedestrians getting killed in crosswalks, I'm in favor of transportation officials tending to their knitting, and keeping their crosswalk efforts focused on pedestrian safety. Though I'm unsure about the pride markings getting in the way of motorists stopping for pedestrians carelessly crossing streets while looking at their phones. For example, the flag in Liliana's profile has plenty of white, something I think is always a good thing for crosswalks, especially at night.

WRT the competence of DOT Secretary Duffy, remember that he started his service making the right noises, yelling at the Pentagon about their flying helicopters too damn close to incoming passenger flights at adjacent National Airport, after an Army helicopter collided with an incoming jet, killing 70 people.

[kalvado]

So, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.

I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.

I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.

Oh, great, didn't realize it's available that way. Can I book a couple crosswalks for some other messages?

[LilianaUwU]

So, to come back to original issue. I hope whatever agency spends money on those rainbow things has enough money and manpower to maintain their bridges and roads.

I'm sad to tell you that Friends of Madison Arts Commission, Pride San Antonio, Northalsted Business Alliance, and other local organizations that fund the rainbows are letting all the roads they maintain go to shit.

I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.

It's not because of a lack of sleep, I still find the idea funny.

[NWI_Irish96]

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.

You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

The previous guy was mayor of a city for 8 years, leading transportation initiatives. His city contained a public bus system, a commercial airport, passenger train service on two lines. He's also one of the most intelligent people in government.

How many public transit options and commercial airports are there in WI-07?

[NWI_Irish96]

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.

You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.

My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.

[kphoger]

But what are people's roadgeek opinions?  Are colorful, decorative, non-standard pavement markings something that should be allowed or disallowed?  Imagine a world in which the rainbow didn't have any connotations other than just the thing in the sky on a rainy day.  What then?

[Max Rockatansky]

But what are people's roadgeek opinions?  Are colorful, decorative, non-standard pavement markings something that should be allowed or disallowed?  Imagine a world in which the rainbow didn't have any connotations other than just the thing in the sky on a rainy day.  What then?

If someone is approaching a multi-colored crosswalk and they slow down in caution, then I don't get how that is per se bad?  It certainly doesn't seem contrary to the mindset of making the crosswalk safe.   

[GaryV]

I've seen crosswalks with artwork in them. Something that reflects the history or culture of the city. Would those be banned too? Or just colors that are "offensive" to the powers that be?

[kphoger]

I've seen crosswalks with artwork in them. Something that reflects the history or culture of the city. Would those be banned too? Or just colors that are "offensive" to the powers that be?

I did address that earlier on:

Well, let's start with the MUTCD, obviously:

Part 3 — Markings

Chapter 3H — Colored Pavement

§ 3H.03 — Aesthetic Surface Treatments

Support

01 — Aesthetic surface treatments are sometimes used between the transverse lines within a crosswalk, in islands, in medians, in shoulders, within sidewalk extensions designated by pavement markings, or in other areas outside of the traveled way.

07 — Colors used for aesthetic surface treatments shall be outside the chromaticity coordinates that define the ranges of acceptable colors for traffic control devices.

Chromaticity coordinates:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-23/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-655#Appendix-to-Subpart-F-of-Part-655

So I guess, if we're going to follow the MUTCD, then these cities can use whatever colors they like between the crosswalk lines—as long as it isn't red, orange, yellow, green, light blue, blue, purple, brown, or white.

[SEWIGuy]

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.

Duffy's only interaction with transportation prior to now was meeting his wife on MTV's "Road Rules."

[kalvado]

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.

You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.

My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.

I followed that story in real time, including official documents. It was not bad, it was a horrible failure which should be dealt with in criminal court.

[kalvado]

I've seen crosswalks with artwork in them. Something that reflects the history or culture of the city. Would those be banned too? Or just colors that are "offensive" to the powers that be?

I can see government agencies using that for government purposes.
Outsourcing to nonprofit or for profit? It should be available to any such entity willing to pay. It will escalate quickly...

[mgk920]

But looks like those lower level professionals are no longer there, most likely boomers going into sunset.

I seem to recall at the beginning of Duffy's term of office, there was a big push to get rid of a whole bunch of those lower level professionals. We had a lower level professional from another agency who was very angry about it make a thread about it on this forum, even.

I don't know if it's because I've been up since yesterday, but the idea of a LGBT organization maintaining roads seems hilarious to me for no other reason than the absurdity of the concept.

I don't know of any particular LGBT organization that has done it, but interest groups volunteering to take care of potholes and trash and other things that city governments won't do in under-served areas is a way that they sometimes try to win support for whatever their cause is.

- until they run headlong into the city's Department of Public Works ('DPW') employees' union . . .

Mike

[Rothman]

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.

You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.

My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.

I followed that story in real time, including official documents. It was not bad, it was a horrible failure which should be dealt with in criminal court.

Wonder why others didn't follow your well-informed opinion on this, then.

[Rothman]

But what are people's roadgeek opinions?  Are colorful, decorative, non-standard pavement markings something that should be allowed or disallowed?  Imagine a world in which the rainbow didn't have any connotations other than just the thing in the sky on a rainy day.  What then?

Maintenance of special paint is a b$%^&.

[kalvado]

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.

You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.

My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

To be more accurate, your biggest memory of Pete B. is Fox News telling you how FAA was going through a complete meltdown while big boss was paternity leave, which is far from the truth.

I followed that story in real time, including official documents. It was not bad, it was a horrible failure which should be dealt with in criminal court.

Wonder why others didn't follow your well-informed opinion on this, then.

What was the plane you flew last time?
(Version for non-aa public: which interstates did you drive last time you were away from home?)

[kphoger]

|kalvado|, I think people forget you're also a plane-geek.

[kalvado]

|kalvado|, I think people forget you're also a plane-geek.

Yes, it plays a role - although I prefer to think about it as "interested in infrastructure".
And  I wonder how many people outside this forum would be able to say something about landmark FHWA achievements, like Clearview or mileage based exit numbers.
I would say FHWA role is much smaller in everyday travel, so even if Comic Sans is approved to replace Clearview, few people would ever notice. FAA has a bit more direct effect on me-the-travellet, so their work quality is more obvious.