Does anyone know of any highways that have been decommissioned or rerouted in Indiana recently? I've heard that US 12/20 in downtown Gary might be rerouted, is this true? I try to research this myself online, but information is hard to come by.
US 40 in Terre Haute.
SR 238 and SR 334 in suburban Indianapolis.
SR 431 was also decommissioned.
On the plus side, SR 4 was extended a mile west to the new US 31 freeway. SR 931 is still scheduled to take over the old US 31 bypass in Kokomo next year. SR 641 will connect US 41 to I-70.
Some of SR 25 was rerouted on to the new route, and a lot more will be this year. US 24 will also be rerouted east of Fort Wayne later this year.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 13, 2012, 10:30:51 PM
Does anyone know of any highways that have been decommissioned or rerouted in Indiana recently? I've heard that US 12/20 in downtown Gary might be rerouted, is this true? I try to research this myself online, but information is hard to come by.
U.S. 12 and 20 in Gary will stay where they are for right now. As a matter of fact, work is set for a modernization project for 4th and 5th avenues (U.S. 12/20 west and east, respectively) designed to go into 2013. U.S. 12 was rerouted along U.S. 20 (5th Ave., where the road is two-way traffic) and Indiana 912 (Cline Avenue) to it's original location at Columbus Drive in 2004 when the stretch between Bridge and Bigger Street was closed for bridge replacement. The detour became permanent, and Industrial Highway/4th Avenue no longer had the U.S. 12 designation.
As for those I do know, U.S. 35 was decommissioned in Michigan City between U.S. 12 and the Indiana 212/U.S. 20 interchange about 4 miles away sometime in 2008.
While the "great decommissioning" in South Bend went down more than 10 years ago, trailblazers for Business U.S. 20 in South Bend and Mishawaka still existed as late as 2008. However, no map or exit signage shows U.S. 20 - business or otherwise - as existing.
EDIT: In advance of expansion at the Gary-Chicago Airport, Indiana 312 (Chicago Avenue) was truncated to have Cline Ave (Ind. 912) as its eastern terminus. The original terminus was three-quarters of a mile east at Industrial Highway (former U.S. 12). It makes sense, since U.S. 12 shares Cline Ave. from U.S. 20 (5th Ave.) to Columbus Drive/Industrial Highway (see above).
Thanks a lot for the info.
Does anyone have any idea why US 52 is going to be routed onto teal road in Lafayette (and later onto 231) along with SR25 and 26? I don't get why they would full all of that through traffic for 3 highways all onto one road, especially US 52 and the semis that would use 52.
Also what exactly happened to 912? I read recently that INDOT was going to go forward on the Riley and Dickey road routing, now I'm hearing that that won't happen, the riley/dickey road idea seemed perfect, why the change?
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 14, 2012, 12:17:24 AM
Thanks a lot for the info.
Does anyone have any idea why US 52 is going to be routed onto teal road in Lafayette (and later onto 231) along with SR25 and 26? I don't get why they would full all of that through traffic for 3 highways all onto one road, especially US 52 and the semis that would use 52.
Also what exactly happened to 912? I read recently that INDOT was going to go forward on the Riley and Dickey road routing, now I'm hearing that that won't happen, the riley/dickey road idea seemed perfect, why the change?
They were going with the surface street rerouting, but a private firm stepped in to offer the replacement of the Cline Ave. span with a toll bridge to help recoup the costs. Now that the city of East Chicago and the firm reached a deal, it's waiting for INDOT to ink it.
INDOT was so close to moving with the surface street plan that East Chicago turned control of Riley and Dickey Road to INDOT. When the toll bridge idea gained traction, INDOT gave control of the streets back to East Chicago as part of this new deal.
Not sure how far back qualifies as recently, but:
IN 131 in Clarksville was decommissioned in 2002.
IN 219 on the St. Joe/Elkhart county border was decommissioned in 1999, and IN 933 was truncated.
SR 641 was banned. :-D
Does anyone know of any that are planned to be removed or rerouted soon?
Outside of portions of U.S. 31 being rerouted for the expressway conversion (between South Bend and Indianapolis) and the conversion of Indiana 265 to I-265 sometime this decade (when the East End Ohio River Bridge Project is completed), there's nothing on the docket as of this time.
In Northwest Indiana:
IN-130 will be truncated to IN-149 in the next few years, INDOT and the city of Valparaiso came to an agreement that the city would take over Lincolnway(IN-130) in exchange for money to improve US-30 within the city.
So, IN-130 will go from US-6 in Hobart South and East and end at IN-149.
Quote from: ssummers72 on June 14, 2012, 07:28:26 PM
In Northwest Indiana:
IN-130 will be truncated to IN-149 in the next few years, INDOT and the city of Valparaiso came to an agreement that the city would take over Lincolnway (IN-130) in exchange for money to improve US-30 within the city.
So, IN-130 will go from US-6 in Hobart South and East and end at IN-149.
Really? I knew INDOT and the city of Valparaiso brokered a deal for U.S. 30 improvements, but I did not know that was one of the terms of the agreement. Interesting to see how that pans out. (Strangely enough, there was a proposal to extend Indiana 149 to U.S. 30, but was quickly shot down for logistic and environmental reasons.)
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 14, 2012, 07:15:03 PM
Does anyone know of any that are planned to be removed or rerouted soon?
Also, when I was last in Terre Haute, I did not see any SR 342 signs so I assume it was decommissioned.
As part of the new US 50 bypass in North Vernon that is now under construction, there will apparently soon be an SR 750 until the second half of the project is done.
As for SR 312, the part east of Cline Avenue was decommissioned years ago.
Thanks to all for the info. Btw where are you guys getting this info? I try to search online for it, but haven't had much luck.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 14, 2012, 11:27:59 PM
Thanks to all for the info. Btw where are you guys getting this info? I try to search online for it, but haven't had much luck.
No problem.
For me, I follow up on some transportation news on various local news sites. However, most of this stuff I find out just by driving (I didn't even know Indiana 312 had been truncated for years; I just found out about it last year). It doesn't pop up in plain sight; you just have to dig. Various DOT sites are good sources for information of this type.
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on June 14, 2012, 07:23:58 PM
Outside of portions of U.S. 31 being rerouted for the expressway conversion (between South Bend and Indianapolis) and the conversion of Indiana 265 to I-265 sometime this century (when the East End Ohio River Bridge Project is completed), there's nothing on the docket as of this time.
Made that a bit more realistic there.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 14, 2012, 11:27:59 PM
Thanks to all for the info. Btw where are you guys getting this info? I try to search online for it, but haven't had much luck.
http://www.highwayexplorer.com/IndianaHighwayList.php
This site hasn't been updated in a couple years, but it's pretty accurate for information about any changes up until then.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 14, 2012, 11:27:59 PM
Thanks to all for the info. Btw where are you guys getting this info? I try to search online for it, but haven't had much luck.
The INDOT web site and the major newspapers have information have a lot. Beyond that, I agree that it is mainly driving around.
What about US 231 in southern Indiana? How were the state routes rerouted after the part from i-64 to the ohio river was completed?
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 17, 2012, 12:48:13 AM
What about US 231 in southern Indiana? How were the state routes rerouted after the part from i-64 to the ohio river was completed?
Except for a very short section in Dale itself, they weren't. SR 68 lost about half a mile to end at the new bypass and SR 62 goes west through Dale to the bypass, but at the south end of town, it is still on the same route as before. Similar to SR 68, SR 70 was truncated by about half a mile to end at the new road which runs east of the old one there. Both SR 66 and SR 162 have an interchange with new US 231, but except for the improvements right at US 231, they stay on the same routing.
The section of SR 62 from Chrisney north to SR 62 and SR 70 through Chrisney were decommissioned.
Google Maps shows SR 62 following its original route through Dale and SR 68 ending at the center of town. Unless there was a recent change, that is not correct.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 17, 2012, 12:48:13 AM
What about US 231 in southern Indiana? How were the state routes rerouted after the part from i-64 to the ohio river was completed?
Did the decommissioning of IN 45 take place before the new bridge was built and US 231 rerouted, or afterwards?
wait what? IN 45 was decommissioned too?
The old US 231 bridge and connecting highway became SR 161 several years ago. Way back in the olden days, it was SR 45.
does anyone know if indiana 57 will be decommissioned when i-69 is finished?
Per Wikipedia, a large portion of Indiana 57 will be bypassed by (and possibly rerouted onto) I-69 when construction is completed. They stop short of saying that they will decommission the road.
I'm sure more will be known as construction continues.
Online INDOT plans for I-69 do not show a any SR 57 signage (I.e. a multiplex).
any idea how long this multiplex will be?
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 19, 2012, 11:05:24 PM
any idea how long this multiplex will be?
0 miles longer than it currently is.
Probably for the foreseen future, SR 57 will stay as it is. It could be decomissioned as various parts of the highway may be returned to the municipal governments, but there's no word on that happening at the moment. The current multiplex along I-164 and I-69 should be the only multiplex for the highway.
this has something to do with the current topic, what highways do you guys think should be rerouted or completely decommissioned? The two that come to mind to me are indiana 134 and us 136 (should be decommissioned)
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 20, 2012, 08:31:42 PM
this has something to do with the current topic, what highways do you guys think should be rerouted or completely decommissioned? The two that come to mind to me are indiana 134 and us 136 (should be decommissioned)
The mods seem to prefer to keep those kinds of discussions in the Fictional Highways Section, but if you start a thread there, I'll be happy to contribute.
good to know. ill do that
does anyone know is sr 126 and 526 will be decommissioned when the new bypass is finished?
My guess would be...probably.
Judging by the way cross-roads are mentioned in the US 231 study (route numbers not mentioned), I would agree that they will be gone.
http://www.in.gov/indot/div/projects/us231/pubs/US231PublicMtg_032812.pdf (http://www.in.gov/indot/div/projects/us231/pubs/US231PublicMtg_032812.pdf)
Wheb the hoosier heartland project is done, will sr 25 still be routed into downtown logansport? It if doesn't what will happen to sr 17 will they extend it to meet with the new bypass or reroute it away from logansport completely
This article should explain the details of what will happen with Logansport.
http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=62958&SectionID=31&SubSectionID=163&S=1
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 22, 2012, 12:30:36 PM
Wheb the hoosier heartland project is done, will sr 25 still be routed into downtown logansport? It if doesn't what will happen to sr 17 will they extend it to meet with the new bypass or reroute it away from logansport completely
As IN25 approaches Logansport, it is going to turn due west and run parallel to, but just south of, the exisitng US24/35 bypass. There will be a single interchange that intersects both the existing IN29 and the old IN29 (Burlington Ave.). IN25 will be re-routed along Burlington Ave. and essentially follow old IN29's path into downtown. Since IN25 will then run through downtown on 3rd St. to High St., IN17 presumably gets truncated by 4 blocks.
What I haven't seen is how the new construction west of Burlington over to the existing US24/35 will be signed. It won't be carrying IN25 at that point, nor will it yet be carrying US24/35. Maybe IN29 gets re-routed to cover that gap???
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 22, 2012, 03:17:33 PM
What I haven't seen is how the new construction west of Burlington over to the existing US24/35 will be signed. It won't be carrying IN25 at that point, nor will it yet be carrying US24/35. Maybe IN29 gets re-routed to cover that gap???
US 24 and US 35 will be on the same new roadway with SR 25 that will have the new interchange. At least part of the current roadway will be removed (I think the westbound lanes) and the remaining road will no longer be a highway.
http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/files/segment4.pdf (http://www.in.gov/indot/projects/files/segment4.pdf)
I guess I also don't see how SR 17 will change either.
Will sr 43 be cut back all the way to i-65?
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 23, 2012, 11:19:54 PM
Will sr 43 be cut back all the way to i-65?
Do you mean in West Lafayette? Probably the simplest thing would be to return its south end to where it was until 2001--at IN 26/State St., or else maybe they could extend it down River Road to meet 231, but I don't think I have seen any mention of that. It would take the road off the state books to end 43 at 26, but would be logical as a state route numbered access to the city and campus to extend 43 to 231.
If 43 were to end at 65, then 443 would probably go too--of course, with 52 not being at the other end of 443, maybe that's the point!
sr 26 is going to be routed onto the new bypass and onto teal road and onto sr 38, i know 443 will be decommissioned. It makes sense to extend it to the 231 bypass but i dont know what will happen actually. i think it's stupid us 52 will be moved, it's fine where it is. does anyone know what will happen to sr 43 (in west lafayette)
Didn't know that the 26 part was final; had heard that there was a lot of blowback about it but I think INDOT doesn't care about that. Teal Road was never meant to handle that much traffic....it will be interesting to see what happens. 350S would have been a nice alternative but since they allowed it to get built up out of control, it's possibly even worse than Teal.
This graphic from the J&C (http://www.jconline.com/assets/PDF/BY18465623.PDF) shows just how silly routing everything out 38 to 65 is; anyone who knows where they are going (or is advised by a local or has a map) is going to ignore the posted routes (or just follow the local preferences) and go the way things used to go. It has to be just to reduce the mileage on INDOT's books, but this is really getting silly. They need to do something like Mass does and allow posted state routes on local roads. Then at least 26 could continue west to Sagamore and then go south to Teal. It's insane posting it as joining I-65, exiting at 38, then the hairpin left on Sagamore to get to Teal.
The idea of posted route numbers should be to show the best, fastest, safest, or most direct routes--not to trace the most convoluted path possible to minimize state maintenance. A triplex of US 52, IN 25, and IN 26 on Teal Road (just wait until thru traffic blindly following that hits events at the Fairgrounds and Jeff at the same time) isn't serving the motorists--it's serving INDOT.
Y doesnt indot lobby the governor to abolish the 12,000 mile law?
Looks like from the picture sr 43 will be extended south to us 231
Also, would 38 end while multiplexed with 25 and 26? That doesn't make much sense from a highway standpoint (although none of this makes that much sense to me anyway) but the news diagram doesn't really address that. Addresses would have to be changed if they did truncate 38 to end at I-65; places like the Subaru plant have addresses on "SR 38 E" that might require changing if 38 is discontinued there. So what to do? Allow 38 to end at its current end point? Might as well, considering how convoluted everything else is with this!
The newspaper map doesn't really address extension of 43 explicitly; the wide lines are existing state routes, and what appears to be a possible extension of 43 to meet rerouted 231 is only shown as a state route because it is already--as US 231.
It's interesting to note that for a couple years now, IN 25 has not been signed as running on I-65. It was rerouted onto 65 back in 2002 but for a couple years now, when going south on 25 and reaching I-65, you are greeted with an assembly of shields for SB I-65 left and "END 25" with no instruction on how to reach the part of 25 on the south side of Lafayette (starting at 38 and 65 at best, or at 52 and Teal at worst). Part of me thinks that if they did that to 25, they are likely to do so with 26 too--making it essentially disappear and reappear. As it is now, it's useless to anyone actually trying to follow 25 to have END posted instead of the duplex with 65, but INDOT actually consciously made that choice and took down the shields routing 25 on 65. It's all very, very strange.
Depending on the SR 43 decision, it seems that Lafayette/West Lafayette will be the second large city (for my metric I include any community that is over 50,000 that is not a suburb) that will have no INDOT-maintained roads going through its center after Bloomington. I wonder if that is a coincidence?
How about Elkhart?
Off-topic, but is Lake County the only Indiana county with its county government not in the center of its county seat?
Okay, didn't think about Elkhart, I was trying to make some sort of college town connection with Lafayette and Bloomington, though there may be other factors at play. As for your question, I want to say that Newton County may fit the bill. The county seat is Kentland and the county courthouse IS in the middle of Kentland, but the county government center is located at the intersection of US 41 and SR 114 outside of Morocco. I remember because I got a county map for Newton County there once and it appeared that all the county offices were located there. It may be the closest thing that Indiana has to a county with two county seats, even if Kentland is the official county seat.
Quote from: PurdueBill on June 25, 2012, 03:30:26 PM
Also, would 38 end while multiplexed with 25 and 26? That doesn't make much sense from a highway standpoint (although none of this makes that much sense to me anyway) but the news diagram doesn't really address that. Addresses would have to be changed if they did truncate 38 to end at I-65; places like the Subaru plant have addresses on "SR 38 E" that might require changing if 38 is discontinued there. So what to do? Allow 38 to end at its current end point? Might as well, considering how convoluted everything else is with this!
The newspaper map doesn't really address extension of 43 explicitly; the wide lines are existing state routes, and what appears to be a possible extension of 43 to meet rerouted 231 is only shown as a state route because it is already--as US 231.
It's interesting to note that for a couple years now, IN 25 has not been signed as running on I-65. It was rerouted onto 65 back in 2002 but for a couple years now, when going south on 25 and reaching I-65, you are greeted with an assembly of shields for SB I-65 left and "END 25" with no instruction on how to reach the part of 25 on the south side of Lafayette (starting at 38 and 65 at best, or at 52 and Teal at worst). Part of me thinks that if they did that to 25, they are likely to do so with 26 too--making it essentially disappear and reappear. As it is now, it's useless to anyone actually trying to follow 25 to have END posted instead of the duplex with 65, but INDOT actually consciously made that choice and took down the shields routing 25 on 65. It's all very, very strange.
I agree with your points, but I suspect this is the sort of model INDOT wants - that is very few routes through the central city.
The map shown only shows changes so I would assume SR 43 and SR 443 both stay. If or when the US 231 bypass is extended to I-65, I would guess SR 43 would disappear. See US 231 from US 52 to I-65 (http://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/egov/docs/556671216922587.pdf).
As for SR 25 not being signed on I-65, at the risk of getting too close to the ficticious, SR 25 from the northeast really should be a different route number from the road coming in from the southwest. If not that, SR 25 should end at I-65 and US 231.
If it is important to number non-freeway/non-expressway routes through major cities, maybe Indiana should implement a secondary numbering system for non-INDOT maintained roads in metro areas - or just separate the agency maintaining the road from the state route numbering system.
I don't really know what's the deal with sr 25, i go to purdue and regularly use us 52 and recently i noticed that sr 25 actually ends at us 52 and picks up again north of the city at the schyler ave exit. i recommend the current sr 25 should start at 1-65 and the other piece should be renamed and end at us 231
Quote from: mukade on June 25, 2012, 07:44:19 PM
I agree with your points, but I suspect this is the sort of model INDOT wants - that is very few routes through the central city.
The map shown only shows changes so I would assume SR 43 and SR 443 both stay. If or when the US 231 bypass is extended to I-65, I would guess SR 43 would disappear. See US 231 from US 52 to I-65 (http://www.tippecanoe.in.gov/egov/docs/556671216922587.pdf).
As for SR 25 not being signed on I-65, at the risk of getting too close to the ficticious, SR 25 from the northeast really should be a different route number from the road coming in from the southwest. If not that, SR 25 should end at I-65 and US 231.
If it is important to number non-freeway/non-expressway routes through major cities, maybe Indiana should implement a secondary numbering system for non-INDOT maintained roads in metro areas - or just separate the agency maintaining the road from the state route numbering system.
It would be strange for 43 to just end at State St. with no intersection with another route. It would seem that it would have to either end at I-65 north of town or be extended the couple miles to meet 231 where it makes its new curve onto the new bypass. If 43 does go, then 443 is probably toast too of course. (Since the map I linked is a newspaper production, not an official INDOT document, there's no way to be certain of its accuracy as far as 43 and 443.)
As far as 25 being split into different numbers, that is only a thought because INDOT split it up in the first place. Until the first round of rerouting in 2002, IN 25 had a continuous route through town--one more historic one and then one more recent one. If they aren't going to keep them connected by signage, then they might as well renumber one. Then again, this disappearing act is something that they do in other places, like IN 1 near Fort Wayne that disappears with an END assembly and then reappears on the other side of town. (This is different from the multiplexes on 465, which at least get the benefit of a BGS saying how to follow the route.) IN 25 always was a single route number on either side of town, so renumbering it (with accompanying tons of postal address changes) isn't worth the trouble.
I wonder if they will resume signing the multiplexeseses on I-65 when all this is done. If so, why bother removing 25 from them in the first place?
Another thing I wonder that I haven't seen but maybe it's out there (or even in this thread or the IN 25 thread and I missed it) is what happens to the north end of 225. Do they extend it to meet some other highway? Decommision it totally? End it in Battle Ground? (I can see them wanting to unload the one-lane bridge with the signals.)
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 25, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
I don't really know what's the deal with sr 25, i go to purdue and regularly use us 52 and recently i noticed that sr 25 actually ends at us 52 and picks up again north of the city at the schyler ave exit. i recommend the current sr 25 should start at 1-65 and the other piece should be renamed and end at us 231
Thing is, both pieces are "current" SR 25--it was one continuous route until a couple years ago the duplex with I-65 was no longer signed. 25 only got END signs at 52 and 65 a couple years ago; until then, it ran continuously through town. Redoing addresses along either stretch of 25--north or south of Lafayette--is a lot of trouble to ask people to deal with just to avoid signing the multiplex. (Even with 25 from Lafayette to Logansport becoming "Old 25", there is the part north of Logansport that is 25 now and probably ought to remain so, as should the part through West Point down to IN 32.)
One thing I noticed from the Lafayette area a few months back was at the current interchange with SR 26 and I-65. Even though the interchange was rebuilt (or the area around it at least) and SR 26 rebuilt, the sign directing traffic from westbound 26 to southbound 65 was kept, and its an older button copy sign. Obviously, it will likely get replaced once all this rerouting is done. With all of this talk about SR 25 being split, has anyone thought about splitting SR 26 into two segments, east of I-65 and west of the new US 231, instead of that planned multiplex. How about splitting up SR 25 into two segments as well, just two SR 25s. There are two SR 1s (as mentioned further up) three SR 8s and four SR 101s, having two SR 25s and 26s won't be anything new. That way, only US 52 will use Teal Road, just a few thoughts though.
Yes, excellent question, but as there is really only one E-W road thru Lafayette, I think SR 26 should remain continuous.
I also noticed the sign did not change and wondered why. That seems like a plausible theory.
A funny thing about continuous/discontinuous routes, around 2009, INDOT joined the two discontinuous segments of SR 19 by making 19 travel over SR 22 for about 12 miles and SR 18 for something a bit less. No one in their right mind would follow that route!
i doubt indot would ever split 26, they seem to not like splitting east west border to border routes
Quote from: mukade on June 25, 2012, 09:36:34 PM
No one in their right mind would follow that route!
Unless, of course, you are trying to clinch IN 19!
Im assuming 225 will be extended to meet with new 25. Anyone know this for sure?
The article I posted in the other thread said that the old SR 25 route will become "Old SR 25". Therefore, I would say no.
are there any plans at all to reconstruct i-465 on the northwest side? (i-865 interchange) the us 421 interchange seems adequate for now but the 865 interchange could use some work, eliminate the sharp dangerous curves and make 465 at least 3 lanes in both directions in the interchange things always seem to back up here during rush hour
There are no plans...not even long term plans (if they still exist) that would address any of that, I believe.
that's crazy i understand 865 not getting much traffic but 465 around there really could use some work
What will happen when i-69 is finished will it cross the ohio river? I hear theres no money for a bridge now so will it just end at 64 until they decide to build a bridge or will it us the us 41 bridge
sr 26 has already begun to be rerouted, the signs have been removed at it's crossing with us 52
what is the point of indiana 340?
I suspect Clay County didn't want to take over it when US 40 was bypassed the south. Indiana 340 used to be at one time US 40 before 40 was widened to four lanes across the state, that stretch evidently couldn't be widened so US 40 was moved to the south and the current highway was given the name SR 340. I'm only guessing about the Clay County part though.
Quote from: PurdueBill on June 25, 2012, 08:50:55 PM
It would be strange for 43 to just end at State St. with no intersection with another route. It would seem that it would have to either end at I-65 north of town or be extended the couple miles to meet 231 where it makes its new curve onto the new bypass. ...
As far as 25 being split into different numbers, that is only a thought because INDOT split it up in the first place. Until the first round of rerouting in 2002, IN 25 had a continuous route through town--one more historic one and then one more recent one. If they aren't going to keep them connected by signage, then they might as well renumber one. Then again, this disappearing act is something that they do in other places, like IN 1 near Fort Wayne that disappears with an END assembly and then reappears on the other side of town. (This is different from the multiplexes on 465, which at least get the benefit of a BGS saying how to follow the route.) IN 25 always was a single route number on either side of town, so renumbering it (with accompanying tons of postal address changes) isn't worth the trouble.
On the first point, you never know. SR 120 ends at a city street in Elkhart, SR 55 ends at Ridge Road in Lake County, and SR 257 ends at old US 50 in Washington.
I am OK with the disappearing act like Fort Wayne or the Indianapolis strategy, but consistency would be nice. For Lafayette, though, the northeast and southwest parts of SR 25 should be different numbers and SR 25 should end at the US 231 bypass.
I drove through Lafayette yesterday. Although the US 231 (/US 52/SR26) bypass is progressing nicely, the moving of US 52 seems stupid. It will go from a mainly divided and completely four lane highway to a route that has a winding, congested, two lane section. And SR 26 will be on that same road! East-west travel across Lafayette is really difficult now. I hope they address that and extend the US 231 bypass up to the I-65 interchange as plans on the INDOT site show.
actually the geniuses at indot made teal road 3 highways it will soon be 25 26 and 52 that makes all the sense in the world doesnt it? 43 should be extended to the new 231, 52 should stay where it is and 26 should be routed onto teal up 52 then rejoin its old alignment. this raises another question, has indot ever decommissioned a route, only to recommission it later?
i know sr 238 has been decommissioned, but has indot finally removed all the signs? I remember driving by there a while ago after it had been decommissioned but all of the signs were still there
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 21, 2012, 10:58:11 AM
actually the geniuses at indot made teal road 3 highways it will soon be 25 26 and 52 that makes all the sense in the world doesnt it? 43 should be extended to the new 231, 52 should stay where it is and 26 should be routed onto teal up 52 then rejoin its old alignment. this raises another question, has indot ever decommissioned a route, only to recommission it later?
I am pretty sure it has happened a few times. SR 25 is soon to be going down Burlington Ave. in Logansport (which was SR 29 and SR 329) as an example.
Quote from: mukade on July 21, 2012, 10:18:01 AM
I drove through Lafayette yesterday. Although the US 231 (/US 52/SR26) bypass is progressing nicely, the moving of US 52 seems stupid. It will go from a mainly divided and completely four lane highway to a route that has a winding, congested, two lane section. And SR 26 will be on that same road! East-west travel across Lafayette is really difficult now. I hope they address that and extend the US 231 bypass up to the I-65 interchange as plans on the INDOT site show.
I can't imagine anyone local or anyone who even is familiar with the area actually following the posted routes--Teal Road carrying 25, 26, and 52 is just crazy. If they hadn't allowed 350S to become so built-up, it would have made for a nice southern bypass; when I lived in southern Lafayette something like 15 years ago, there wasn't very much on 350S and it was a good bypass. Now it's become a congested, slow route no better than Teal Road. Anyone local going from over near I-65 to Purdue is going to use existing 26 or Union/Salem Streets like they do today; they aren't going to follow the new trail that is blazed down Teal Road which will be longer and slower--the only ones who will go that way will be the out-of-towners who are following the signs and don't know any better.
What are they doing with 38? Is it just going to end at the current intersection with 52, which will not be an intersection with 52 anymore but rather a very tight turn (135 degrees?) while multiplexed with 25 and 26 to meet 52 at Teal for the multiplex from hell. Ending 38 out at I-65 would seem to make sense but then all the street addresses on 38 from 65 to 52 would have to change, including the Subaru plant. Not worth the trouble, it would seem.
Given INDOT wants to shed miles, probably the best way would to do it would be to:
- keep US 52 routed on Sagamore Parkway
- keep SR 38 as it is
- have SR 26 go north on Sagamore Parkway, then proceed south back to current SR 26 on the new US 231 bypass. I can agree that SR 26 should be re-routed away from Purdue. That would get rid of a few miles of SR 26
- decommission SR 25 from US 52 to the US 231 bypass (i.e. Teal Rd.). As there is no decent east-west highway on the south side of town, this makes the most sense to me.
If SR 443, SR 526, and SR 126 are still planned to be state roads, INDOT could decommission them.
i believe that 38 will stay the same due to the difficulty of changing addresses. 443 526 and 126 look like they are going to be decommissioned.
why is it that the state wont get rid of the archaic 12,000 mile rule?
The 12K rule has nothing to do with it. There are approximately 11,141 miles of highway in the system.
I would guess that addresses are not a major concern to INDOT. Like numerous other cases, it could become "Old SR 38" if the local government couldn't come up with a name.
mukade could you explain the new routing of sr 62 again? are you saying that sr 62 stays on its old alignment from where it multiplexed with the now old 231 just north of chrisney and that it bypasses dale from the west then turns onto what used to be sr 68 to go through dale?
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 23, 2012, 07:43:42 PM
mukade could you explain the new routing of sr 62 again? are you saying that sr 62 stays on its old alignment from where it multiplexed with the now old 231 just north of chrisney and that it bypasses dale from the west then turns onto what used to be sr 68 to go through dale?
Right. SR 62 goes along the new US 231 for a mile or two near Dale. The Official Indiana State Highway Map (http://www.in.gov/indot/files/StateTransportationMap.pdf) shows it correctly.
Get ready for some big changes on 69 they are renumbering the exits in the next 2 months according to wish tv
This isnt a state highway but is there any news on the Ronald Reagan pwy extension south of us 36? I see that the bridge is done yet the road isnt open (as of last month the last time i was out there)
I see now that SR 26 now is discontinuous in Lafayette now, it now ends at us 231 and reappears again east of i-65. I don't know why they are doing this now, I thought the plan was to reroute it onto the new 231 and onto teal and SR 38 next November.
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 02, 2012, 09:24:06 PM
I see now that SR 26 now is discontinuous in Lafayette now, it now ends at us 231 and reappears again east of i-65. I don't know why they are doing this now, I thought the plan was to reroute it onto the new 231 and onto teal and SR 38 next November.
I saw that yesterday while in town; there is indeed a really large END EAST 26 assembly at River Road/US 231 which is bizarre if they are going to post 26 as turning onto new 231 out west of town.
I still wonder what becomes of the eastern/southern end of 225 and the southern end of 43; I haven't found anything about it but maybe I keep looking in the wrong place.
Quote from: PurdueBill on September 02, 2012, 09:39:38 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 02, 2012, 09:24:06 PM
I see now that SR 26 now is discontinuous in Lafayette now, it now ends at us 231 and reappears again east of i-65. I don't know why they are doing this now, I thought the plan was to reroute it onto the new 231 and onto teal and SR 38 next November.
I saw that yesterday while in town; there is indeed a really large END EAST 26 assembly at River Road/US 231 which is bizarre if they are going to post 26 as turning onto new 231 out west of town.
I still wonder what becomes of the eastern/southern end of 225 and the southern end of 43; I haven't found anything about it but maybe I keep looking in the wrong place.
I wonder the same thing, my guess is that 43 gets cut back to 65 and 225 is decommissioned. It would be nice for 43 to be extended to the new 231 bypass and 225 get extended to the new 25
I'll speculate that SR 43 will be extended down River Road to the new US 231, but who knows. If US 52 is removed from Sagamore Pkwy, there will definitely be no need for SR 443.
I'll speculate that SR 225 will end north of the Wabash River at Prophetstown SP. That would remove that one lane bridge from the state highway system.
As for SR 26, as much as I don't really like it becoming discontinuous, it is better than following I-65, SR 38, SR 25, and US 231. I was just there 2 or 3 weeks ago, and I saw no END signs on 26, but I did notice that it was not marked eastbound past US 52.
I was in Lafayette last May and still saw SR 26 signs in downtown Lafayette, obviously it seems those are now gone. I can see SR 225 ending at Prophetstown SP soon since INDOT like to maintain some state-maintained access road to state parks, coming from SR 43 to the west. In which case then, if SR 443 goes away, maybe we should turn SR 225 into a spur route of 43, not 443 but maybe 143 or 343, since the 225 would no longer be connected to its parent. Or we could just decomission 225 or just not worry about it at all (SR 129 and 229 have been away from their parents for a long time anyway.)
I think your last thought is right. If it is not decommissioned, it will most likely stay SR 225. In addition to the x29s, there are also x34s and an x21 that are child routes of parents that are deceased (so to speak). As for SR 143, it is taken - it is a spur off US 421 on a section in Pulaski County that was once SR 43.
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 02, 2012, 10:54:20 PM
I was in Lafayette last May and still saw SR 26 signs in downtown Lafayette, obviously it seems those are now gone. I can see SR 225 ending at Prophetstown SP soon since INDOT like to maintain some state-maintained access road to state parks, coming from SR 43 to the west. In which case then, if SR 443 goes away, maybe we should turn SR 225 into a spur route of 43, not 443 but maybe 143 or 343, since the 225 would no longer be connected to its parent. Or we could just decomission 225 or just not worry about it at all (SR 129 and 229 have been away from their parents for a long time anyway.)
SR 225 has no access to the State Park. It goes over a bridge to avoid the park road from the entrance gate to the campground. The service area/park office does have a driveway to SR 225, but no connections between that drive and the one from the park road.
Quote from: tvketchum on September 04, 2012, 09:02:58 PM
SR 225 has no access to the State Park. It goes over a bridge to avoid the park road from the entrance gate to the campground. The service area/park office does have a driveway to SR 225, but no connections between that drive and the one from the park road.
What you describe for SR 225 is typical for a road not ending at the state park. Many state roads go by state parks not necessarily with direct access. Generally, for a road to connect directly to a state park entrance, the state road would end at the boundary of the state park. A few examples come to mind: SR 49, SR 269, SR 201, and SR 727. I can't think of a state road in a state park offhand.
Quote from: mukade on September 04, 2012, 10:19:36 PM
Quote from: tvketchum on September 04, 2012, 09:02:58 PM
SR 225 has no access to the State Park. It goes over a bridge to avoid the park road from the entrance gate to the campground. The service area/park office does have a driveway to SR 225, but no connections between that drive and the one from the park road.
What you describe for SR 225 is typical for a road not ending at the state park. Many state roads go by state parks not necessarily with direct access. Generally, for a road to connect directly to a state park entrance, the state road would end at the boundary of the state park. A few examples come to mind: SR 49, SR 269, SR 201, and SR 727. I can't think of a state road in a state park offhand.
I guess the issue with 225 is that there isn't public access at all to the park from 225; access is from SR 43 to Burnett to 9th to Swisher. Only the official access/maintenance building has access to 225. I suppose they could end 225 at the maintenance entrance in order to keep state ownership of the 225 overpass over the park entrance road, but does the state own the overpass anyway even if 225 is trimmed back to the center of Battle Ground?
It will be interesting to see what happens, since I go to Purdue I'll try to take and post some pictures of the bypass if I have time soon.
Now SR 225 just ends at a country road due to SR 25 being moved.
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 20, 2012, 03:24:44 PM
Now SR 225 just ends at a country road due to SR 25 being moved.
Seems a little odd, doesn't it? Usually that only happens at state lines (I'm thinking of the west end of Indiana 18 where it just sort of ends abruptly out in the middle of nowhere.)
Because we're accustomed to thinking of state highways as primary thoroughfares that carry more traffic than county roads, it seems a little strange that SR 225 is still a state highway. Surely Indiana 225's days must be numbered. I wonder what name Tippecanoe County will assign to SR 225 if and when the State decommissions it. "Old SR 225" won't do -- since there won't be a "new" SR 225 replacing it.
I agree, 225 is essentially useless now.
Quote from: Rushmeister on November 21, 2012, 10:18:52 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 20, 2012, 03:24:44 PM
Now SR 225 just ends at a country road due to SR 25 being moved.
Seems a little odd, doesn't it? Usually that only happens at state lines (I'm thinking of the west end of Indiana 18 where it just sort of ends abruptly out in the middle of nowhere.)
Because we're accustomed to thinking of state highways as primary thoroughfares that carry more traffic than county roads, it seems a little strange that SR 225 is still a state highway. Surely Indiana 225's days must be numbered. I wonder what name Tippecanoe County will assign to SR 225 if and when the State decommissions it. "Old SR 225" won't do -- since there won't be a "new" SR 225 replacing it.
A bit odd, but not unique, especially for a 3-digit SR. SR-332's east end is at the Tillotson Ave. intersection in Muncie. Presumably, the state just didn't want to take over maintenance of McGalliard Rd. through Muncie to connect up with the east side bypass.
I was down in Southern Indiana today and went to New Harmony, speaking of highways that dead end at the moment, SR 66 ends at the foot of the now-closed bridge over the Wabash, making that highway essentially a spur route off of SR 69. An interesting note about SR 332, it is the only state highway not to touch another state highway.
^ Interesting unique feature of SR-332. The west end is at I-69, obviously not an SR.
For those not aware, the road was started as a county road to give Muncie better access to the interstate. It got built halfway there as a 2-laner, when squabbles among county commissioners (or was it the county council?) brought the road to a halt in a farmer's field. The state finally came to rescue, taking over the project and eventually expanding to the expressway that it is today.
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 21, 2012, 05:19:50 PM
I was down in Southern Indiana today and went to New Harmony, speaking of highways that dead end at the moment, SR 66 ends at the foot of the now-closed bridge over the Wabash, making that highway essentially a spur route off of SR 69. An interesting note about SR 332, it is the only state highway not to touch another state highway.
SR 53, SR 212, SR 249, and SR 520 all intersect US/Interstate highways but no other state highways.
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 21, 2012, 06:39:59 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 21, 2012, 05:19:50 PM
I was down in Southern Indiana today and went to New Harmony, speaking of highways that dead end at the moment, SR 66 ends at the foot of the now-closed bridge over the Wabash, making that highway essentially a spur route off of SR 69. An interesting note about SR 332, it is the only state highway not to touch another state highway.
SR 53, SR 212, SR 249, and SR 520 all intersect US/Interstate highways but no other state highways.
Of course SR 53 used intersect SR 330 and SR 202 (sorry, I used to live in that area). The others are very short.
Many state roads end at county or city roads: SR 11 south section (S), SR 55 (N), SR 61 (N), SR 63 south section (N), SR 69 (S), SR 159 middle section (S), SR 257 (N and S), SR 641, SR 933. SR 650 ends at a gypsum plant and SR 166 dead ends at the Ohio River. Then there are the state roads that serve state parks: SR 143, SR 269, SR 524, SR 727, etc.
I probably should have said U.S. AND state highways on that SR 332 remark.
SR 166 is one of the weirdest state routes IN has.
Deadly accident at IN 25 work site near Delphi yesterday. (http://www.jconline.com/article/20121130/NEWS/311300021/cave-in-earth-slide-death-hoosier-heartland) Condolences to the family.
Ronald Reagan Parkway is open now, a seamless link from US 36 to I-70. Any chances this will become SR 267?
I don't think so. I believe INDOT asked Hendricks County once if they wanted to swap SR 267 with Ronald Reagan Parkway and the county said no.
that's interesting, I would think it would be cheaper to do the switch for the county.
I read somewhere that US-12 could be rerouted around the dunes.
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 15, 2013, 12:35:11 PM
I read somewhere that US-12 could be rerouted around the dunes.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/duneland/report-recommends-portion-of-u-s-be-managed-by-nps/article_aed22e3c-c5fc-5205-a23e-95b96845ccf9.html
This may be what you read. I haven't heard anything recent about this. I guess if this went through US 12 would get rerouted along IN 520 and then US 20. Then it could go back up to its existing route via IN 149, or it could just stay with US 20 to where they already meet in Gary.
^^ It looks more likely that commercial truck traffic would be prohibited, rather than rerounting of the highway, if anything at all gets done.
Says INDOT spokesman Jim Pinkerton:
Quote"It's very premature at this point to speculate on what the outcome will be."
I was looking at some of the new Google Street view of New Albany, and it appears that SR 111 has be decommissioned or rerouted, does anyone have any info on this? Also 403, 203 and 160 I heard may be gone.
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 09, 2013, 11:50:39 PM
I was looking at some of the new Google Street view of New Albany, and it appears that SR 111 has be decommissioned or rerouted, does anyone have any info on this? Also 403, 203 and 160 I heard may be gone.
Yes, IN 111 north of its junction with I-64 in downtown New Albany has been decommissioned. IN 311 and IN 403 have been entirely decommissioned. IN 160 is still in tact west of Henryville, but I haven't been on the Henryville-Charlestown segment in a while so that may be gone too. I have absolutely no idea about IN 203.
I originally noted the changes here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5857.msg198840#msg198840
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 10, 2013, 07:42:09 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 09, 2013, 11:50:39 PM
I was looking at some of the new Google Street view of New Albany, and it appears that SR 111 has be decommissioned or rerouted, does anyone have any info on this? Also 403, 203 and 160 I heard may be gone.
Yes, IN 111 north of its junction with I-64 in downtown New Albany has been decommissioned. IN 311 and IN 403 have been entirely decommissioned. IN 160 is still in tact west of Henryville, but I haven't been on the Henryville-Charlestown segment in a while so that may be gone too. I have absolutely no idea about IN 203.
I originally noted the changes here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5857.msg198840#msg198840
What is 111's official northern end? I read on Wikipedia that it now ends at the Harrison/Floyd county line is that true?
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 10, 2013, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 10, 2013, 07:42:09 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 09, 2013, 11:50:39 PM
I was looking at some of the new Google Street view of New Albany, and it appears that SR 111 has be decommissioned or rerouted, does anyone have any info on this? Also 403, 203 and 160 I heard may be gone.
Yes, IN 111 north of its junction with I-64 in downtown New Albany has been decommissioned. IN 311 and IN 403 have been entirely decommissioned. IN 160 is still in tact west of Henryville, but I haven't been on the Henryville-Charlestown segment in a while so that may be gone too. I have absolutely no idea about IN 203.
I originally noted the changes here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5857.msg198840#msg198840
What is 111's official northern end? I read on Wikipedia that it now ends at the Harrison/Floyd county line is that true?
I've never seen anything official from INDOT stating exactly what all of the changes are but 111 is still signed from I-64 to the Harrison/Floyd line, which is also where the Horseshoe is.
Thanks I put those changes on Google Mapmaker. Is it me, or is Google Mapmaker the most frustrating thing to use? It's simple to figure out, but extremely slow and hard to select everything you want.
I sent an e-mail to the Floyd County highway department and just got an official response:
IN 111 from New Albany south to Harrison County is still a state highway, so the Wikipedia entry is incorrect. Only the parts of IN 111 in and north of New Albany have been turned over to the city/county.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 11, 2013, 07:38:24 AM
I sent an e-mail to the Floyd County highway department and just got an official response:
IN 111 from New Albany south to Harrison County is still a state highway, so the Wikipedia entry is incorrect. Only the parts of IN 111 in and north of New Albany have been turned over to the city/county.
Thanks for the info!
Anybody else have more news on highways that have been rerouted or deleted in Indiana recently?
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 11, 2013, 07:38:24 AMthe Wikipedia entry is incorrect.
Show of hands as to who's surprised.
That's what I thought. No one responded. :-P
Quote from: hbelkins on April 11, 2013, 10:30:13 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 11, 2013, 07:38:24 AMthe Wikipedia entry is incorrect.
Show of hands as to who's surprised.
That's what I thought. No one responded. :-P
I was going to post something similar, but it seemed so obvious.
Not at all surprised wikipedia was wrong
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 09, 2013, 11:50:39 PM
I was looking at some of the new Google Street view of New Albany, and it appears that SR 111 has be decommissioned or rerouted, does anyone have any info on this? Also 403, 203 and 160 I heard may be gone.
Your inclusion of 160 in this list made me curious so I ventured out over the weekend and found that 160 between Henryville and Charlestown has also been turned back over to the county. IN 160 now ends at US 31 in Henryville.
I wonder what others are gone
http://www.urbanindy.com/2013/05/15/study-examines-streamlining-in37-on-ne-side/?utm_source=feedly
http://www.indympo.org/Documents/US%2037%20Executive%20Summary.pdf
This is an interesting idea, it's so expensive that I don't see the city doing a similar thing to what Carmel did with SR 431. So i guess it would likely still be SR 37 if this were to go forward.
It should probably stay SR 37, unless INDOT plans on truncating the rest of SR 37 from Noblesville up to Marion, which doesn't sound too likely. In that vein, any improvements like that to SR 37 would likely be an INDOT project.
Well, SR 267's days are numbered. http://fox59.com/2013/06/19/communities-fight-traffic-congestion-by-taking-control-of-state-highway/#axzz2Ybe3Ylvh
and possibly SR 933 http://www.abc57.com/news/LINCOLNWAY-210786091.html
^^ About SR 933: I can't image that Mishawaka's portion of the road could be turned over to the city, while the surrounding parts, in South Bend, Roseland, Osceola, and unincorporated St. Joseph County, remain in state hands. I'm feeling that those entities are less eager to take over the road.
The mayor is certainly right about the condition of the road. It was once marked as four narrow lanes in Mishawaka's downtown and east side, but today's wider vehicles would make it a tough squeeze in many spots. Drivers now sometimes improvise side-by-side travel.
Quote from: theline on July 10, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
^^ About SR 933: I can't image that Mishawaka's portion of the road could be turned over to the city, while the surrounding parts, in South Bend, Roseland, Osceola, and unincorporated St. Joseph County, remain in state hands. I'm feeling that those entities are less eager to take over the road.
The mayor is certainly right about the condition of the road. It was once marked as four narrow lanes in Mishawaka's downtown and east side, but today's wider vehicles would make it a tough squeeze in many spots. Drivers now sometimes improvise side-by-side travel.
I like how the INDOT guy basically said that it's not like we don't care about this road, from what I've read any Indiana highway with a 9 in it is considered unimportant, which explains the awful condition of the road. See SR 912, and SR 930 as examples, also soon to be SR 931. I don't understand why that highway (933) just ended at the county line though, why not at SR 331? I guess they couldn't work a deal at the time either. On an unrelated note, I hear parts of SR 25, and 55 might be decommissioned around US 136. As for an update to previous post, SR 43 seems like it will end at the 65 interchange.
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 10, 2013, 10:08:16 PM
Quote from: theline on July 10, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
^^ About SR 933: I can't image that Mishawaka's portion of the road could be turned over to the city, while the surrounding parts, in South Bend, Roseland, Osceola, and unincorporated St. Joseph County, remain in state hands. I'm feeling that those entities are less eager to take over the road.
The mayor is certainly right about the condition of the road. It was once marked as four narrow lanes in Mishawaka's downtown and east side, but today's wider vehicles would make it a tough squeeze in many spots. Drivers now sometimes improvise side-by-side travel.
I like how the INDOT guy basically said that it's not like we don't care about this road, from what I've read any Indiana highway with a 9 in it is considered unimportant, which explains the awful condition of the road. See SR 912, and SR 930 as examples, also soon to be SR 931. I don't understand why that highway (933) just ended at the county line though, why not at SR 331? I guess they couldn't work a deal at the time either. On an unrelated note, I hear parts of SR 25, and 55 might be decommissioned around US 136. As for an update to previous post, SR 43 seems like it will end at the 65 interchange.
SR 933 ends at the county line because Elkhart County was willing to take control of their portion of the road but St. Joseph County was not. Yes, it makes for a very odd circumstance that a state highway just ends at some random intersection.
Well I can now confirm that SR 26 ends at US231/52 and picks up again at I-65. SR25 does the exact same thing. SR 38 just ends alone at old 52. No idea about 43 but I'm pretty sure it will be cut back to I-65 and I know 443, 526, and 126 will all die. New signage is up for 52 mostly. I don't understand why they didn't fix the teal road corridor, at least repave it! And fix that confusing intersection at teal and 4th street. Anyway the new bypass is a great road, very much needed.
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 13, 2013, 06:33:03 PM
Well I can now confirm that SR 26 ends at US231/52 and picks up again at I-65. SR25 does the exact same thing. SR 38 just ends alone at old 52. No idea about 43 but I'm pretty sure it will be cut back to I-65 and I know 443, 526, and 126 will all die. New signage is up for 52 mostly. I don't understand why they didn't fix the teal road corridor, at least repave it! And fix that confusing intersection at teal and 4th street. Anyway the new bypass is a great road, very much needed.
Ok I can understand decommissioning SR 25 SR 43 and SR 443, 126, 526 being truncated or eliminated within the city limits, but rerouting US-52 away from Sagamore parkway makes absolutely ZERO sense, especially since following Sagamore parkway is the more direct route and is the bypass around Lafayette. I dont think this transfer was the way to go. It is too bad that the state cannot transfer the portion to the city and still have it signed as US-52. Still have it classified as a FA-US-52 Federal Aid highway, but then the city is now responsible for that section of the road, not the state. In My opinion its the wrong move. SR-38 should be truncated back to the interstate.
Also since the US-52 and US 231 now make a turn at the north end of the bypass instead of having a nice sweeping turn, is there plans to extend the bypass northward to I-65 north of lafayette, routing US-231 to the interstate...
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=62852
a huge piece of sr 267 is now gone.
So SR 267 now has two seperate segments with two endpoints at county roads. I'd guess it would be Green Street in Brownsburg, but what's the name of the road in Avon?
I always figured that SR 267 would get the axe and that Reagan Parkway would become a state highway.
Quote from: cabiness42 on July 11, 2013, 07:37:27 AMYes, it makes for a very odd circumstance that a state highway just ends at some random intersection.
Maryland does that a lot.
especially since the northern endpoint in brownsburg is like 100yards north of 74
SR 312 is also either gone completely or doesn't exist in hammond anymore. Why won't they rid themselves of the worthless sr 340?
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 02, 2014, 12:17:41 AM
So SR 267 now has two seperate segments with two endpoints at county roads. I'd guess it would be Green Street in Brownsburg, but what's the name of the road in Avon?
267 does end at 74, signage in the field confirms it, not sure about what's going on in plainfield though
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 02, 2014, 08:59:58 PM
SR 312 is also either gone completely or doesn't exist in hammond anymore. Why won't they rid themselves of the worthless sr 340?
Clay County doesn't want SR 340. SR 340 is a very nice scenic way to go (part of the National Road). I prefer driving on 340, rather than on 40.
In the greater Lafayette area there have been numerous route changes. First, US 52 has been routed along the US 231 bypass and across on Teal Rd. back to the Sagamore Pkwy (which I think isn't a good idea :angry:). Second SR 25 has been split with one terminus at I-65 and another terminus at US 231. Third SR 26 has been split with one terminus at the new US231/52 and another terminus at I-65 (which I also think isn't a good idea X-(). Fourth the northern segment of SR 43 has been shortened to a new terminus at I-65 and SR 443 has been decommissioned. Back to silverback1065's question: "Does anyone have any idea why US 52 is going to be routed onto teal road in Lafayette (and later onto 231) along with SR25 and 26? I don't get why they would full all of that through traffic for 3 highways all onto one road, especially US 52 and the semis that would use 52." As mentioned before, SR 25 and 26 are split and not routed onto Teal Rd. But I have seen almost no truckers use the Teal Rd. routing, most of them continue to use the Sagamore Pkwy. (Old US 52).
Hope this helps!
Quote from: billtm on May 06, 2014, 09:10:54 PM
In the greater Lafayette area there have been numerous route changes. First, US 52 has been routed along the US 231 bypass and across on Teal Rd. back to the Sagamore Pkwy (which I think isn't a good idea :angry:). Second SR 25 has been split with one terminus at I-65 and another terminus at US 231. Third SR 26 has been split with one terminus at the new US231/52 and another terminus at I-65 (which I also think isn't a good idea X-(). Fourth the northern segment of SR 43 has been shortened to a new terminus at I-65 and SR 443 has been decommissioned. Back to silverback1065's question: "Does anyone have any idea why US 52 is going to be routed onto teal road in Lafayette (and later onto 231) along with SR25 and 26? I don't get why they would full all of that through traffic for 3 highways all onto one road, especially US 52 and the semis that would use 52." As mentioned before, SR 25 and 26 are split and not routed onto Teal Rd. But I have seen almost no truckers use the Teal Rd. routing, most of them continue to use the Sagamore Pkwy. (Old US 52).
Hope this helps!
I can't speak specifically to Teal Rd. because I've never driven on it or if I have it's been so long ago that I don't remember it. I do know that INDOT is trying to turn over all routes through the larger cities to local control, and of course INDOT's policy is that they are only going to sign routes that they maintain.
I used to live near there; Teal Road is a very strange choice vs. CR 350 S or something, but Teal was already on the books as 25 before, so it's probably easier than taking one road from the county and giving one back to Lafayette. Teal goes down to two lanes, passes the fairgrounds and Jeff High School as well as shopping centers. While 350 S has a number of lights and shopping centers as well, it doesn't have the school and fairgrounds to pass. Strange to want to route the traffic by there... (I remember when 350 S had virtually nothing along it. Now it's ultra-built up.)
What good are the route numbers if they disappear and reappear? Seems like INDOT ought to pursue being able to route numbered routes over city roads like some states do.
Some indiana news: ronald reagan pwky has funding for the stretch between 30th st and i-74. Also sr 267 will be getting a new name in avon soon they have a survey monkey link out to submit 3 names of your choice. Anyone familiar with the area have any ideas for the new name? I drove the route a few days ago and sr 267 is signed from 74 north to 65 and from us 40 south to sr 67. The small piece north of 40 in Plainfield is unsigned.
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
here's the survey link, it's near the bottom right: http://www.avongov.org/egov/documents/1395071868_93683.pdf
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 29, 2014, 01:15:35 PM
Some indiana news: ronald reagan pwky has funding for the stretch between 30th st and i-74. Also sr 267 will be getting a new name in avon soon they have a survey monkey link out to submit 3 names of your choice. Anyone familiar with the area have any ideas for the new name? I drove the route a few days ago and sr 267 is signed from 74 north to 65 and from us 40 south to sr 67. The small piece north of 40 in Plainfield is unsigned.
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
I'm pretty sure IN 267 ends at IN 42. But it doesn't seem to be signed in Street View.
You're right my mistake
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 29, 2014, 10:29:47 PM
here's the survey link, it's near the bottom right: http://www.avongov.org/egov/documents/1395071868_93683.pdf
Council voted to recommend Avon Avenue as the new name for SR 267.
http://www.avongov.org/egov/documents/1398433677_47606.pdf
Just confirmed that IN-43 ends at I-65. The sign is just south of the interchange.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_tv_WtvAHoY/U9g84U9qVBI/AAAAAAAAAEM/gBqUmBDveuQ/s2048/IMG_4129.JPG)
I've been editing that in Google map maker and they keep denying my edit. On another note, where does the western portion of SR 252 end? Google maps says at SR 9, but INDOT's inventory says it ends in flat rock, just west of SR 9.
The inventory must be wrong. Last I know, there are SR 252 signs at SR 9 and presumably an end sign there as well. The western end of SR 252 to my knowledge is at SR 37 in Martinsville.
GSV shows an end sign at SR 9.
INDOT needs to adopt a policy that a road can be local maintained but still signed as a state highway to avoid confusion. All these illogical endings and split routes are getting out of hand.
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Turning local roads over to local control makes sense.
Not having roads under local control signed as state highways makes sense.
Yet when you combine the two together, you get a state highway network that does not make sense.
Not sure what the solution is
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 07, 2016, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Turning local roads over to local control makes sense.
Not having roads under local control signed as state highways makes sense.
Yet when you combine the two together, you get a state highway network that does not make sense.
Not sure what the solution is
Business routes or "to SR XX" signage all maintained but the lpa
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 07, 2016, 09:48:30 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 07, 2016, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Turning local roads over to local control makes sense.
Not having roads under local control signed as state highways makes sense.
Yet when you combine the two together, you get a state highway network that does not make sense.
Not sure what the solution is
Business routes or "to SR XX" signage all maintained but the lpa
There are a lot of ways these routes could be marked - particularly the ones that go into or through towns/cities. As others have mentioned, business routes are the most common. There could also be Historic routes, Alternative Routes, Emergency Routes, and some cities like Fremont, Ohio have "City Routes" on old federal and state highways that have been moved to bypasses.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2Ffrecity5.jpg&hash=0c970faaa314dc38563f0c8425a0eeab523477d2)
In the age of Internet mapping and navigation services does it really matter what the road is called?
A lot of people don't use such devices every day and Indiana does have a slightly older population that may not be as savvy with phones or computers (there are many though who are even in that group.) I have a friend who lives off of former SR 267 in Avon and had to redirect his friend one night who had driven US 36 west out of Indy and ended up past Danville before being directed back toward Avon and told to find "Avon Avenue." Needless to say, my friend and I would imagine many people have never referred to that highway was Avon Avenue. Some road names like Washington Street (former US 40) or Meridian Street (US 31) have standing power because they were from the original city plan for Indianapolis. But a Whitestown Parkway, Campus Parkway, Sagamore Parkway or Avon Avenue, with the exception of maybe the Sagamore I would guess they aren't household names yet.
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 07, 2016, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Turning local roads over to local control makes sense.
Not having roads under local control signed as state highways makes sense.
Yet when you combine the two together, you get a state highway network that does not make sense.
Not sure what the solution is
Simple solution turn the road over but keep the signs up. That way motorist won't be confused. It makes perfect sense.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 07, 2016, 06:28:59 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 07, 2016, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Turning local roads over to local control makes sense.
Not having roads under local control signed as state highways makes sense.
Yet when you combine the two together, you get a state highway network that does not make sense.
Not sure what the solution is
Simple solution turn the road over but keep the signs up. That way motorist won't be confused. It makes perfect sense.
First of all, who maintains the signs? If INDOT no longer maintains the roads, the very likely won't check on the condition of the signage.
Secondly, drivers need to know who is responsible for a road when reporting road conditions. If some signed roads are INDOT but others aren't, drivers won't know where to report problems.
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 08, 2016, 03:42:46 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 07, 2016, 06:28:59 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 07, 2016, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Turning local roads over to local control makes sense.
Not having roads under local control signed as state highways makes sense.
Yet when you combine the two together, you get a state highway network that does not make sense.
Not sure what the solution is
Simple solution turn the road over but keep the signs up. That way motorist won't be confused. It makes perfect sense.
First of all, who maintains the signs? If INDOT no longer maintains the roads, the very likely won't check on the condition of the signage.
Secondly, drivers need to know who is responsible for a road when reporting road conditions. If some signed roads are INDOT but others aren't, drivers won't know where to report problems.
The point about maintaining the signs is well worth consideration.
Regarding reporting road conditions, could we taxpayers hope that the agencies communicate with each other? Even as things stand now, I'm sure that many (most?) citizens draw no distinction between INDOT, the county road department and city street department, with little awareness of who maintains what. The people who work for those departments
should know the distinction and
should be able to route complaints to the right place.
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 08, 2016, 03:42:46 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 07, 2016, 06:28:59 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 07, 2016, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 06, 2016, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: billtm on June 06, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 24, 2016, 09:28:44 PM
SR 252 is scheduled to be decommissioned after it is reconstructed between I-65 and SR 9
I'd actually be kinda okay with that decommissioning. :-/
It's not as bad as some of the other decommissionings like splitting up IN-26 IN -44 IN-267 ect that was just so idiotic. But they have decommissioned so much soon there will be nothing left.
Turning local roads over to local control makes sense.
Not having roads under local control signed as state highways makes sense.
Yet when you combine the two together, you get a state highway network that does not make sense.
Not sure what the solution is
Simple solution turn the road over but keep the signs up. That way motorist won't be confused. It makes perfect sense.
First of all, who maintains the signs? If INDOT no longer maintains the roads, the very likely won't check on the condition of the signage.
Secondly, drivers need to know who is responsible for a road when reporting road conditions. If some signed roads are INDOT but others aren't, drivers won't know where to report problems.
Signs have to be replaced like what? Once every 25 years big deal. Not to mention the cost of replacing sings are very minimal. It makes perfect sense no more illogical split up routes and no more drivers getting lost or confused trying to find a route that isn't there. As far as who maintains what I don't think most drivers even give one thought about it. And even if they do finding out isn't hard at all.
Quote from: tdindy88 on June 07, 2016, 04:14:32 PM
A lot of people don't use such devices every day and Indiana does have a slightly older population that may not be as savvy with phones or computers (there are many though who are even in that group.) I have a friend who lives off of former SR 267 in Avon and had to redirect his friend one night who had driven US 36 west out of Indy and ended up past Danville before being directed back toward Avon and told to find "Avon Avenue." Needless to say, my friend and I would imagine many people have never referred to that highway was Avon Avenue. Some road names like Washington Street (former US 40) or Meridian Street (US 31) have standing power because they were from the original city plan for Indianapolis. But a Whitestown Parkway, Campus Parkway, Sagamore Parkway or Avon Avenue, with the exception of maybe the Sagamore I would guess they aren't household names yet.
Sagamore is barely a household name. About half of the kids I talk to in my school know the road is called that, and for most of them "52" is still the primary name in their heads.
I feel like the state should allow people at the local level to rebuild/build state roads, but maintenance should be taken care of by the states. These shared state roads would be repaved, lined, and signed by the state but any major reconstruction could be taken care of by the city/county. This would be the best of both worlds, the route will be signed and the state can save money. Under this system US 52 would be taken care of, and CR-17 in Elkhart could become part of the state road system. And for those roads that won't be rebuilt, they can be signed as business routes if the former routing is unclear. I bet there are some flaws to this idea, but to me this seems perfect. :D
Or we could just move on and accept that these are no longer state highways.
Guys.
Every road is under some public jurisdiction. State, municipal, county, or township. Whoever has jurisdiction of the road will be in charge of maintaining the signs as well.
Quote from: cjw2001 on June 09, 2016, 10:55:17 PM
Or we could just move on and accept that these are no longer state highways.
Your perfectly fine with routes being split up? It makes no sense to me and it does lead to problems.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 10, 2016, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: cjw2001 on June 09, 2016, 10:55:17 PM
Or we could just move on and accept that these are no longer state highways.
Your perfectly fine with routes being split up? It makes no sense to me and it does lead to problems.
Amen! Not everyone in the world has a GPS, and numbers are often easier to work with than names for those new to an area. Also, when giving directions, it is much simpler if I can tell someone to follow a numbered route through a city instead of naming all the streets that the route takes the name of.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 10, 2016, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: cjw2001 on June 09, 2016, 10:55:17 PM
Or we could just move on and accept that these are no longer state highways.
Your perfectly fine with routes being split up? It makes no sense to me and it does lead to problems.
Yes I'm perfectly fine with it. Just because it once existed doesn't mean it always has to exist. I'm more than happy for the state to spend my tax dollars on the highways that make sense to maintain long term, and stop spending them on those that don't. Once they aren't maintaining those roads they are no longer state highways and should no longer have state highway numbers.
One solution would be to differentiate between state routes and state roads. State roads being the physical surfaces that are owned and maintained by the state, while state routes are the numbered designations that run along both those state roads and other roads owned and maintained by cities and counties. Routes remain continuous even when road ownership changes, although they can be moved to different alignments to improve traffic flow if the state and local governments agree to it. Require city and county governments to maintain roads carrying state routes to certain minimum standards (e.g. sufficient turning radii for trucks) but otherwise let them make design decisions. State provides the signage but leaves it up to the locals to install.
Quote from: cjw2001 on June 10, 2016, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 10, 2016, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: cjw2001 on June 09, 2016, 10:55:17 PM
Or we could just move on and accept that these are no longer state highways.
Your perfectly fine with routes being split up? It makes no sense to me and it does lead to problems.
Yes I'm perfectly fine with it. Just because it once existed doesn't mean it always has to exist. I'm more than happy for the state to spend my tax dollars on the highways that make sense to maintain long term, and stop spending them on those that don't. Once they aren't maintaining those roads they are no longer state highways and should no longer have state highway numbers.
Numbered routes are the modern equivalent of blazed trails--would you want to have the blazes stop because jurisdiction changes for a tract of land? Sure there is GPS, but GPS is not GOD. It screws up, it isn't updated sometimes, etc. etc. etc.
Motorists don't care if it's INDOT, Tippecanoe County, Lafayette, or West Lafayette that owns the roadway. What they care about is something like being able to follow SR 25 (or SR 26) through without it turning into worrying about the GPS saying south on Schuyler Ave, south on Sagamore Parkway North, south on Sagamore Parkway South, west on Teal Road (well, now west on US 52, if it knows that), south on South 4th Street, and so on, just to get to the other part of SR 25. Why interrupt the route number just because of who owns the pavement? If GPS is going to route people that way anyway (and if locals and onetime locals like me still go that way), there isn't any significant reduction in traffic volume by removing the route number. It's entirely a paperwork thing to insist on removing shields because the state gave the road to the county or city.
Telling people to stay on South Street isn't easy when the signs for it are perpendicular to the traffic, facing intersecting roadways. That is where shields for the road you are actually on come into play. Telling someone how to get from Meijer on the east side of Lafayette to the Purdue campus used to be easy--take 26 west. Now it's slightly less easy--take South Street until the five-way corner past the Walgreens, bear right onto Main, then left on Columbia, follow that across the river and now it's State Street but you wouldn't know it easily, follow up the hill. Easier with route numbers for sure. Not impossible, but it is illogical that 26 magically reappears on the other side of town at US 231/52.
INDOT could leave the signage for the route numbers; there are states like Massachusetts that run state route numbers (and even US route numbers) over city and town roads. Sure makes navigating easier, and THAT is the point of the route numbers--navigation, NOT indicating who owns the pavement and is responsible for maintenance.
The best solution given INDOT will be turning back so many miles of roads is to provide signage (trailblazer or state route) on newly decommissioned sections for a period of time. Still, I don't think it is a huge issue if they don't - this is mainly a reflection of an evolution of technology, budgets, and the way we travel.
Here are some thoughts:
- The state roads being decommissioned are generally not ones that would carry much inter-city traffic. SR 26 and SR 25 in Lafayette and SR 22 in Kokomo are two typical examples. I bet less than 1% of the traffic on those roads is thru traffic.
- I am not a GPS navigation person, but I don't think I have ever gotten lost when I decide to not follow a state highway in an unfamiliar city. I try to look at maps before I travel, and navigating city streets is really no harder than navigating state highways. For GPS users, and there are many of them, the main issue is when the navigation system is not up-to-date so that the road name references are old. Otherwise, they're all set, and this method of navigation will only become more common.
- The current or former state highway routing is not necessarily better than alternate routes. For example, 146th Street in Hamilton County is a better route across the county than SR 32 so defaulting to using state roads as a crutch is not always a good thing.
- The issue of discontinuous numbers or names has always existed in some cities and counties. For example, in Howard County, CR 300S becomes Center Road only to pick up as CR 300S again. Fort Wayne/Allen County has streets that change names when crossing township lines. For example, Mapelcrest Rd. is the same road as Adams Center Rd. and Marion Center Rd. and Washington Center Rd. is the same as St. Joe Center Rd., Irving Rd, and Maumee Center Rd. County road names always change at county lines. So the discontinuous state roads aren't any more confusing that those examples.
- When major locally-controlled thoroughfares in a city are improved, would the state highway signage move? Or would they stay on the old state road routing forever?
Maybe we just learn to deal with this new reality.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 09, 2016, 01:02:57 PMAs far as who maintains what I don't think most drivers even give one thought about it. And even if they do finding out isn't hard at all.
This. A million times this.
In the UK, while you might have a few strategically placed signs on trunk roads (almost always placed by the DBFO* or franchised contractors operating/maintaining the road on behalf of the trunk road body saying that they maintain it), there's usually no way of knowing who maintains the road, be it Highways England, Transport for London**, Transport Wales, Transport Scotland or a local council***.
France's frequent divestment of N roads has created much annoyance as ancient routes loose their iconic number, even among the French, despite departments renumbering them in ways that preserve the number in the new D road number. Norway just change shield colour, and there are lots of mistakes where new signs use the wrong colour shield, and lots of old signs not changed at the decommission. Both strike me as stupid. Remove numbers wholly gone, sure, but where a city has taken over a short middle section, either reroute the state highway on state highway system routes around the city (eg Layfayette for IN25 and IN26), or leave the signs up.
*Design, Build, Finance and Operate.
**It doesn't help that the borough councils don't always sign their boundaries, and that TfL maintain every signallised junction in London. Though it should be the easiest as TfL roads are Red Routes, with red lines along the edge rather than the standard yellow ones to indicate 'no parking' or 'no waiting'.
***Whose boundaries get tweaked frequently, new top-level councils created, etc. And this is before we deal with the incoming Combined Authorities that will further complicate things.
Quote from: mukade on June 12, 2016, 01:49:10 PM
The best solution given INDOT will be turning back so many miles of roads is to provide signage (trailblazer or state route) on newly decommissioned sections for a period of time. Still, I don't think it is a huge issue if they don't - this is mainly a reflection of an evolution of technology, budgets, and the way we travel.
Here are some thoughts:
- The state roads being decommissioned are generally not ones that would carry much inter-city traffic. SR 26 and SR 25 in Lafayette and SR 22 in Kokomo are two typical examples. I bet less than 1% of the traffic on those roads is thru traffic.
- I am not a GPS navigation person, but I don't think I have ever gotten lost when I decide to not follow a state highway in an unfamiliar city. I try to look at maps before I travel, and navigating city streets is really no harder than navigating state highways. For GPS users, and there are many of them, the main issue is when the navigation system is not up-to-date so that the road name references are old. Otherwise, they're all set, and this method of navigation will only become more common.
- The current or former state highway routing is not necessarily better than alternate routes. For example, 146th Street in Hamilton County is a better route across the county than SR 32 so defaulting to using state roads as a crutch is not always a good thing.
- The issue of discontinuous numbers or names has always existed in some cities and counties. For example, in Howard County, CR 300S becomes Center Road only to pick up as CR 300S again. Fort Wayne/Allen County has streets that change names when crossing township lines. For example, Mapelcrest Rd. is the same road as Adams Center Rd. and Marion Center Rd. and Washington Center Rd. is the same as St. Joe Center Rd., Irving Rd, and Maumee Center Rd. County road names always change at county lines. So the discontinuous state roads aren't any more confusing that those examples.
- When major locally-controlled thoroughfares in a city are improved, would the state highway signage move? Or would they stay on the old state road routing forever?
Maybe we just learn to deal with this new reality.
All valid points, in my own experience I have driven in an unfamiliar city before and was able to navigate through following a posted us route. I don't use gps ever (just don't want to), so in these situations it's nice to have a numbered route to get you through the city.