Indiana highway reroutes

[mukade]

Also, would 38 end while multiplexed with 25 and 26?  That doesn't make much sense from a highway standpoint (although none of this makes that much sense to me anyway) but the news diagram doesn't really address that.  Addresses would have to be changed if they did truncate 38 to end at I-65; places like the Subaru plant have addresses on "SR 38 E" that might require changing if 38 is discontinued there.  So what to do?  Allow 38 to end at its current end point?  Might as well, considering how convoluted everything else is with this!

The newspaper map doesn't really address extension of 43 explicitly; the wide lines are existing state routes, and what appears to be a possible extension of 43 to meet rerouted 231 is only shown as a state route because it is already--as US 231.

It's interesting to note that for a couple years now, IN 25 has not been signed as running on I-65.  It was rerouted onto 65 back in 2002 but for a couple years now, when going south on 25 and reaching I-65, you are greeted with an assembly of shields for SB I-65 left and "END 25" with no instruction on how to reach the part of 25 on the south side of Lafayette (starting at 38 and 65 at best, or at 52 and Teal at worst).  Part of me thinks that if they did that to 25, they are likely to do so with 26 too--making it essentially disappear and reappear.  As it is now, it's useless to anyone actually trying to follow 25 to have END posted instead of the duplex with 65, but INDOT actually consciously made that choice and took down the shields routing 25 on 65.  It's all very, very strange.

I agree with your points, but I suspect this is the sort of model INDOT wants - that is very few routes through the central city.

The map shown only shows changes so I would assume SR 43 and SR 443 both stay. If or when the US 231 bypass is extended to I-65, I would guess SR 43 would disappear. See US 231 from US 52 to I-65.

As for SR 25 not being signed on I-65, at the risk of getting too close to the ficticious, SR 25 from the northeast really should be a different route number from the road coming in from the southwest. If not that, SR 25 should end at I-65 and US 231.

If it is important to number non-freeway/non-expressway routes through major cities, maybe Indiana should implement a secondary numbering system for non-INDOT maintained roads in metro areas - or just separate the agency maintaining the road from the state route numbering system.

[silverback1065]

I don't really know what's the deal with sr 25, i go to purdue and regularly use us 52 and recently i noticed that sr 25 actually ends at us 52 and picks up again north of the city at the schyler ave exit. i recommend the current sr 25 should start at 1-65 and the other piece should be renamed and end at us 231

[PurdueBill]

I agree with your points, but I suspect this is the sort of model INDOT wants - that is very few routes through the central city.

The map shown only shows changes so I would assume SR 43 and SR 443 both stay. If or when the US 231 bypass is extended to I-65, I would guess SR 43 would disappear. See US 231 from US 52 to I-65.

As for SR 25 not being signed on I-65, at the risk of getting too close to the ficticious, SR 25 from the northeast really should be a different route number from the road coming in from the southwest. If not that, SR 25 should end at I-65 and US 231.

If it is important to number non-freeway/non-expressway routes through major cities, maybe Indiana should implement a secondary numbering system for non-INDOT maintained roads in metro areas - or just separate the agency maintaining the road from the state route numbering system.

It would be strange for 43 to just end at State St. with no intersection with another route.  It would seem that it would have to either end at I-65 north of town or be extended the couple miles to meet 231 where it makes its new curve onto the new bypass.  If 43 does go, then 443 is probably toast too of course.  (Since the map I linked is a newspaper production, not an official INDOT document, there's no way to be certain of its accuracy as far as 43 and 443.)

As far as 25 being split into different numbers, that is only a thought because INDOT split it up in the first place.  Until the first round of rerouting in 2002, IN 25 had a continuous route through town--one more historic one and then one more recent one.  If they aren't going to keep them connected by signage, then they might as well renumber one.  Then again, this disappearing act is something that they do in other places, like IN 1 near Fort Wayne that disappears with an END assembly and then reappears on the other side of town.  (This is different from the multiplexes on 465, which at least get the benefit of a BGS saying how to follow the route.)  IN 25 always was a single route number on either side of town, so renumbering it (with accompanying tons of postal address changes) isn't worth the trouble. 

I wonder if they will resume signing the multiplexeseses on I-65 when all this is done.  If so, why bother removing 25 from them in the first place?

Another thing I wonder that I haven't seen but maybe it's out there (or even in this thread or the IN 25 thread and I missed it) is what happens to the north end of 225.  Do they extend it to meet some other highway?  Decommision it totally?  End it in Battle Ground?  (I can see them wanting to unload the one-lane bridge with the signals.)

[PurdueBill]

I don't really know what's the deal with sr 25, i go to purdue and regularly use us 52 and recently i noticed that sr 25 actually ends at us 52 and picks up again north of the city at the schyler ave exit. i recommend the current sr 25 should start at 1-65 and the other piece should be renamed and end at us 231

Thing is, both pieces are "current" SR 25--it was one continuous route until a couple years ago the duplex with I-65 was no longer signed.  25 only got END signs at 52 and 65 a couple years ago; until then, it ran continuously through town.  Redoing addresses along either stretch of 25--north or south of Lafayette--is a lot of trouble to ask people to deal with just to avoid signing the multiplex.  (Even with 25 from Lafayette to Logansport becoming "Old 25", there is the part north of Logansport that is 25 now and probably ought to remain so, as should the part through West Point down to IN 32.)

[tdindy88]

One thing I noticed from the Lafayette area a few months back was at the current interchange with SR 26 and I-65. Even though the interchange was rebuilt (or the area around it at least) and SR 26 rebuilt, the sign directing traffic from westbound 26 to southbound 65 was kept, and its an older button copy sign. Obviously, it will likely get replaced once all this rerouting is done. With all of this talk about SR 25 being split, has anyone thought about splitting SR 26 into two segments, east of I-65 and west of the new US 231, instead of that planned multiplex. How about splitting up SR 25 into two segments as well, just two SR 25s. There are two SR 1s (as mentioned further up) three SR 8s and four SR 101s, having two SR 25s and 26s won't be anything new. That way, only US 52 will use Teal Road, just a few thoughts though.

[mukade]

Yes, excellent question, but as there is really only one E-W road thru Lafayette, I think SR 26 should remain continuous.

I also noticed the sign did not change and wondered why. That seems like a plausible theory.

A funny thing about continuous/discontinuous routes, around 2009, INDOT joined the two discontinuous segments of SR 19 by making 19 travel over SR 22 for about 12 miles and SR 18 for something a bit less. No one in their right mind would follow that route!

[silverback1065]

i doubt indot would ever split 26, they seem to not like splitting east west border to border routes

[NWI_Irish96]

No one in their right mind would follow that route!

Unless, of course, you are trying to clinch IN 19!

[silverback1065]

Im assuming 225 will be extended to meet with new 25. Anyone know this for sure?

[mukade]

The article I posted in the other thread said that the old SR 25 route will become "Old SR 25". Therefore, I would say no.

[silverback1065]

are there any plans at all to reconstruct i-465 on the northwest side?  (i-865 interchange) the us 421 interchange seems adequate for now but the 865 interchange could use some work, eliminate the sharp dangerous curves and make 465 at least 3 lanes in both directions in the interchange things always seem to back up here during rush hour

[tdindy88]

There are no plans...not even long term plans (if they still exist) that would address any of that, I believe.

[silverback1065]

that's crazy i understand 865 not getting much traffic but 465 around  there really could use some work

[silverback1065]

What will happen when i-69 is finished will it cross the ohio river? I hear theres no money for a bridge now so will it just end at 64 until they decide to build a bridge or will it us the us 41 bridge

[silverback1065]

sr 26 has already begun to be rerouted, the signs have been removed at it's crossing with us 52

[silverback1065]

what is the point of indiana 340?

[tdindy88]

I suspect Clay County didn't want to take over it when US 40 was bypassed the south. Indiana 340 used to be at one time US 40 before 40 was widened to four lanes across the state, that stretch evidently couldn't be widened so US 40 was moved to the south and the current highway was given the name SR 340. I'm only guessing about the Clay County part though.

[mukade]

It would be strange for 43 to just end at State St. with no intersection with another route.  It would seem that it would have to either end at I-65 north of town or be extended the couple miles to meet 231 where it makes its new curve onto the new bypass. ...

As far as 25 being split into different numbers, that is only a thought because INDOT split it up in the first place. Until the first round of rerouting in 2002, IN 25 had a continuous route through town--one more historic one and then one more recent one.  If they aren't going to keep them connected by signage, then they might as well renumber one.  Then again, this disappearing act is something that they do in other places, like IN 1 near Fort Wayne that disappears with an END assembly and then reappears on the other side of town.  (This is different from the multiplexes on 465, which at least get the benefit of a BGS saying how to follow the route.)  IN 25 always was a single route number on either side of town, so renumbering it (with accompanying tons of postal address changes) isn't worth the trouble. 

On the first point, you never know. SR 120 ends at a city street in Elkhart, SR 55 ends at Ridge Road in Lake County, and SR 257 ends at old US 50 in Washington.

I am OK with the disappearing act like Fort Wayne or the Indianapolis strategy, but consistency would be nice. For Lafayette, though, the northeast and southwest parts of SR 25 should be different numbers and SR 25 should end at the US 231 bypass.

I drove through Lafayette yesterday. Although the US 231 (/US 52/SR26) bypass is progressing nicely, the moving of US 52 seems stupid. It will go from a mainly divided and completely four lane highway to a route that has a winding, congested, two lane section. And SR 26 will be on that same road! East-west travel across Lafayette is really difficult now. I hope they address that and extend the US 231 bypass up to the I-65 interchange as plans on the INDOT site show.

[silverback1065]

actually the geniuses at indot made teal road 3 highways it will soon be 25 26 and 52 that makes all the sense in the world doesnt it? 43 should be extended to the new 231, 52 should stay where it is and 26 should be routed onto teal up 52 then rejoin its old alignment.  this raises another question, has indot ever decommissioned a route, only to recommission it later?

[silverback1065]

i know sr 238 has been decommissioned, but has indot finally removed all the signs? I remember driving by there a while ago after it had been decommissioned but all of the signs were still there

[mukade]

actually the geniuses at indot made teal road 3 highways it will soon be 25 26 and 52 that makes all the sense in the world doesnt it? 43 should be extended to the new 231, 52 should stay where it is and 26 should be routed onto teal up 52 then rejoin its old alignment.  this raises another question, has indot ever decommissioned a route, only to recommission it later?

I am pretty sure it has happened a few times. SR 25 is soon to be going down Burlington Ave. in Logansport (which was SR 29 and SR 329) as an example.

[PurdueBill]

I drove through Lafayette yesterday. Although the US 231 (/US 52/SR26) bypass is progressing nicely, the moving of US 52 seems stupid. It will go from a mainly divided and completely four lane highway to a route that has a winding, congested, two lane section. And SR 26 will be on that same road! East-west travel across Lafayette is really difficult now. I hope they address that and extend the US 231 bypass up to the I-65 interchange as plans on the INDOT site show.

I can't imagine anyone local or anyone who even is familiar with the area actually following the posted routes--Teal Road carrying 25, 26, and 52 is just crazy.  If they hadn't allowed 350S to become so built-up, it would have made for a nice southern bypass; when I lived in southern Lafayette something like 15 years ago, there wasn't very much on 350S and it was a good bypass.  Now it's become a congested, slow route no better than Teal Road.  Anyone local going from over near I-65 to Purdue is going to use existing 26 or Union/Salem Streets like they do today; they aren't going to follow the new trail that is blazed down Teal Road which will be longer and slower--the only ones who will go that way will be the out-of-towners who are following the signs and don't know any better.

What are they doing with 38?  Is it just going to end at the current intersection with 52, which will not be an intersection with 52 anymore but rather a very tight turn (135 degrees?) while multiplexed with 25 and 26 to meet 52 at Teal for the multiplex from hell.  Ending 38 out at I-65 would seem to make sense but then all the street addresses on 38 from 65 to 52 would have to change, including the Subaru plant.  Not worth the trouble, it would seem.

[mukade]

Given INDOT wants to shed miles, probably the best way would to do it would be to:
- keep US 52 routed on Sagamore Parkway
- keep SR 38 as it is
- have SR 26 go north on Sagamore Parkway, then proceed south back to current SR 26 on the new US 231 bypass. I can agree that SR 26 should be re-routed away from Purdue. That would get rid of a few miles of SR 26
- decommission SR 25 from US 52 to the US 231 bypass (i.e. Teal Rd.). As there is no decent east-west highway on the south side of town, this makes the most sense to me.

If SR 443, SR 526, and SR 126 are still planned to be state roads, INDOT could decommission them.

[silverback1065]

i believe that 38 will stay the same due to the difficulty of changing addresses. 443 526 and 126 look like they are going to be decommissioned.
why is it that the state wont get rid of the archaic 12,000 mile rule?

[mukade]

The 12K rule has nothing to do with it. There are approximately 11,141 miles of highway in the system.

I would guess that addresses are not a major concern to INDOT. Like numerous other cases, it could become "Old SR 38" if the local government couldn't come up with a name.