I recently got an email from the NYSDOT announcing that they're going to be adopting a new style of signage for parkways in New York City, similar to what's currently in use on Long Island. They're requesting submissions of ideas of what the signs should look like. The deadline of submitting something is at the end of next week. I've posted a copy of the document that they sent me, which provides additional information about their plans and how to submit ideas for the signage, on my web site at http://www.greaternyroads.info.
Not sure I like some of the initials they plan to use. Be for the Belt Parkway? Mo for the Mosholu?
I like the idea of trailblazers to accompany these parkways.
Quote from: NE2 on August 16, 2012, 10:34:02 PM
Not sure I like some of the initials they plan to use. Be for the Belt Parkway? Mo for the Mosholu?
At least it indicates (Subject to Change).
Quote from: dgolub on August 16, 2012, 08:37:45 PM
I recently got an email from the NYSDOT announcing that they're going to be adopting a new style of signage for parkways in New York City, similar to what's currently in use on Long Island. They're requesting submissions of ideas of what the signs should look like. The deadline of submitting something is at the end of next week. I've posted a copy of the document that they sent me, which provides additional information about their plans and how to submit ideas for the signage, on my web site at http://www.greaternyroads.info.
Ah yes - let the public design guide signs. Isn't that what STANDARDS are for.
Just another example of politicans affecting "transparency" and "civic engagement" in government, and how these "necessary efforts" are nothing more than a waste of everybody's time and the taxpayer's money.
the interstate shield was designed by public contest. it turned out quite well.
(it was the '70-spec neutered horseshit that was done with no public input!)
QuoteSubmission Deadline
- First Round Submission Deadline ...........06/22/2012
- Second Round Submission Deadline.......07/23/2012.
that's ... timely. looks like I won't be submitting any designs.
that said, I'll bet eighty trillion dollars that the signs will end up looking just like the Long Island ones, except with the Empire State Building in the Phallic Symbol slot.
Quote from: roadman on August 17, 2012, 01:02:00 PM
Ah yes - let the pubic design guide signs. Isn't that what STANDARDS are for.
They're not designing guide signs. They're designing a STANDARD shield design to go on guide signs (and independent mounts).
Quote from: roadman on August 17, 2012, 01:02:00 PM
Quote from: dgolub on August 16, 2012, 08:37:45 PM
I recently got an email from the NYSDOT announcing that they're going to be adopting a new style of signage for parkways in New York City, similar to what's currently in use on Long Island. They're requesting submissions of ideas of what the signs should look like. The deadline of submitting something is at the end of next week. I've posted a copy of the document that they sent me, which provides additional information about their plans and how to submit ideas for the signage, on my web site at http://www.greaternyroads.info.
Ah yes - let the pubic design guide signs. Isn't that what STANDARDS are for.
Just another example of politicans affecting "transparency" and "civic engagement" in government, and how these "necessary efforts" are nothing more than a waste of everybody's time and the taxpayer's money.
Based on the typo, I just got this unfortunate mental image of someone whipping out his.... well, never mind how he created the signage.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 17, 2012, 01:16:31 PM
QuoteSubmission Deadline
- First Round Submission Deadline ...........06/22/2012
- Second Round Submission Deadline.......07/23/2012.
that's ... timely. looks like I won't be submitting any designs.
that said, I'll bet eighty trillion dollars that the signs will end up looking just like the Long Island ones, except with the Empire State Building in the Phallic Symbol slot.
The email that they sent me said that they're accepting submissions until the end of next week. I'm assuming that they're extending the deadline beyond what's stated in the document.
Quote from: NE2 on August 16, 2012, 10:34:02 PM
Not sure I like some of the initials they plan to use. Be for the Belt Parkway? Mo for the Mosholu?
Yes, I was thinking that B and M might be more appropriate, but they're probably trying to avoid confusion with Long Island, where those letters are used for the Bethpage Parkway and the Meadowbrook Parkway, respectively. However, I'm not sure why they find it necessary to use lowercase letters. That seems to deviate from what's done on Long Island. (SO is used for the Southern Parkway, and SA is used for the Sagtikos Parkway.) Maybe, they could use BE and ME instead.
I suggested to them to use capital letters only, and offered a phone number to talk about it - so far they haven't bitten, though my phone is AWOL at the moment...
Anyway, here was my suggestion:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8282%2F7784725982_d8528f490e_b.jpg&hash=733940060543a96c132fca4f1c73a5d0dd6a2904)
Excellent design. :clap:
Quote from: Steve on August 17, 2012, 07:45:25 PM
Anyway, here was my suggestion:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8282%2F7784725982_d8528f490e_b.jpg&hash=733940060543a96c132fca4f1c73a5d0dd6a2904)
Is that Freedom Tower, the new 1 WTC?
I do like the sillhouette of the Brooklyn Bridge, looks great.
Quote from: Steve on August 17, 2012, 07:45:25 PM
I suggested to them to use capital letters only, and offered a phone number to talk about it - so far they haven't bitten, though my phone is AWOL at the moment...
Anyway, here was my suggestion:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8282%2F7784725982_d8528f490e_b.jpg&hash=733940060543a96c132fca4f1c73a5d0dd6a2904)
^ If they're only choosing one design, it should be that.
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 17, 2012, 08:34:20 PM
Quote from: Steve on August 17, 2012, 07:45:25 PM
Anyway, here was my suggestion:
Is that Freedom Tower, the new 1 WTC?
I do like the sillhouette of the Brooklyn Bridge, looks great.
Indeed it was. Thank you all!
Whatever they choose, I hope they pick something readable.
One of the things that I noticed on my most recent trip to the NYC area was that lots of businesses will pay good money for a full-color sign that's totally illegible. I find that a little odd.
As for government-issued signs.. I'm sure someone in OK thinks their 2006 redesign of the state highway shield was OK. But at high speed (read "in practice") they leave you guessing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oklahoma_State_Highway_numbered_road_shields.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oklahoma_State_Highway_numbered_road_shields.svg)
You wouldn't think designing a functional sign is hard, but it can be.
Quote from: mp_quadrillion on August 18, 2012, 09:33:41 AM
You wouldn't think designing a functional sign is hard, but it can be.
It's too hard for Kentucky:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.staticflickr.com%2F1379%2F708176702_4513329981_b.jpg&hash=e2ff8812def243bb2614cde4d3b36760481a006a) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7388762@N03/708176702/)
Old design:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fkentucky%2Fimages%2Foldwkshield.jpg&hash=2773bf29302a3e6b9846936e50bf178b4c3c5bd8) (http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/kentucky/parkway/wkpkwy.html)
Actually, Kentucky has changed designs since that top one. I hate the new design and is one of the things that was done in the administration of Gov. Ernie Fletcher with which I totally disagreed. They were looking to get as much mileage as possible out of that "Unbridled Sprit" logo and a change to the parkway signs was one of the options they chose.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8004%2F7156796217_9cdb909ba3.jpg&hash=87bf57cef1c5bc75165be24eddaae588097ec220)
Makes it a bit difficult to differentiate between the routes when the signs all look the same.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5146%2F5791962350_ae60561a25.jpg&hash=40819e55bfdf6ef8dc55232594da12f07e3a866e)
The Mountain and Daniel Boone parkways and the Kentucky turnpike had distinctive signage. The others had the parkway names either spelled out or abbreviated, but the colors and the color schemes were different. WK and BG had white on blue or blue on white, Purchase and Cumberland had larger first letters in blue on white, Green River was spelled out, Pennyrile was green on white with a larger first letter, and Audubon was brown. I miss the old Kentucky parkway signage.
As to Steve's design, I like it a lot. Only thing I'd change is the spelling out of Roosevelt's name. I'd just put "Drive" in that space, kinda like the old WK and BG Parkway signs in Kentucky.
Quote from: dgolub on August 17, 2012, 07:00:37 PM
Yes, I was thinking that B and M might be more appropriate, but they're probably trying to avoid confusion with Long Island, where those letters are used for the Bethpage Parkway and the Meadowbrook Parkway, respectively. However, I'm not sure why they find it necessary to use lowercase letters. That seems to deviate from what's done on Long Island. (SO is used for the Southern Parkway, and SA is used for the Sagtikos Parkway.) Maybe, they could use BE and ME instead.
A prototype design perhaps? :ded:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fny%2Fbelt%2Fshields.jpg&hash=1c7fc73429fccf1941cd9e2b979a536f0b8feeaf)
These have been posted at the Exit 11 median gas station for at least 10 years now.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 20, 2012, 06:00:50 PM
A prototype design perhaps? :ded:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fny%2Fbelt%2Fshields.jpg&hash=1c7fc73429fccf1941cd9e2b979a536f0b8feeaf)
These have been posted at the Exit 11 median gas station for at least 10 years now.
I doubt that this plan has been in the works for that long. Besides, it used the lighthouse used for Long Island parkways, and they said they'll be using something different in the city.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 20, 2012, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: dgolub on August 17, 2012, 07:00:37 PM
Yes, I was thinking that B and M might be more appropriate, but they're probably trying to avoid confusion with Long Island, where those letters are used for the Bethpage Parkway and the Meadowbrook Parkway, respectively. However, I'm not sure why they find it necessary to use lowercase letters. That seems to deviate from what's done on Long Island. (SO is used for the Southern Parkway, and SA is used for the Sagtikos Parkway.) Maybe, they could use BE and ME instead.
A prototype design perhaps? :ded:
These have been posted at the Exit 11 median gas station for at least 10 years now.
I'd sooner think that these were put up by someone reading the wrong specs for a Parkway shield, or NYCDOT saying "we don't have one, here, use Long Island's", more than any actual plan to start using them. That said, given where the Belt runs, I could see using the LI design for that and the Cross-Island.
Quote from: dgolub on August 16, 2012, 08:37:45 PM
I recently got an email from the NYSDOT announcing that they're going to be adopting a new style of signage for parkways in New York City, similar to what's currently in use on Long Island. They're requesting submissions of ideas of what the signs should look like. The deadline of submitting something is at the end of next week. I've posted a copy of the document that they sent me, which provides additional information about their plans and how to submit ideas for the signage, on my web site at http://www.greaternyroads.info.
This is what I miss out on for not being in New York anymore.
:banghead: :thumbdown:
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 17, 2012, 03:26:56 PM
Based on the typo, I just got this unfortunate mental image of someone whipping out his.... well, never mind how he created the signage.
Typo corrected in my post. Sorry about that.
Quote from: Steve on August 17, 2012, 07:45:25 PM
I suggested to them to use capital letters only, and offered a phone number to talk about it - so far they haven't bitten, though my phone is AWOL at the moment...
Anyway, here was my suggestion:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8282%2F7784725982_d8528f490e_b.jpg&hash=733940060543a96c132fca4f1c73a5d0dd6a2904)
Steve, so FDR Dr is on the East Side of Manhattan. WTC is on the West Side (on West Street). For FDR Dr I suggest using the Empire State Building in place of Freedom Tower. I would suggest Freedom Tower to be used on the HH Parkway (Henry Hudson Pkwy, NY 9A) shield. ;-)
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 25, 2012, 09:36:30 PM
Steve, so FDR Dr is on the East Side of Manhattan. WTC is on the West Side (on West Street). For FDR Dr I suggest using the Empire State Building in place of Freedom Tower. I would suggest Freedom Tower to be used on the HH Parkway (Henry Hudson Pkwy, NY 9A) shield. ;-)
I think the whole idea is, just like the LI parkways, to have a unified design for the NYC parkways, not one dependent on the road's location.
Quote from: SidS1045 on August 25, 2012, 11:15:03 PM
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 25, 2012, 09:36:30 PM
Steve, so FDR Dr is on the East Side of Manhattan. WTC is on the West Side (on West Street). For FDR Dr I suggest using the Empire State Building in place of Freedom Tower. I would suggest Freedom Tower to be used on the HH Parkway (Henry Hudson Pkwy, NY 9A) shield. ;-)
I think the whole idea is, just like the LI parkways, to have a unified design for the NYC parkways, not one dependent on the road's location.
Indeed. Though it would be pretty awesome to get to design separate ones for each parkway.
Quote from: Steve on August 20, 2012, 08:43:49 PM
I'd sooner think that these were put up by someone reading the wrong specs for a Parkway shield, or NYCDOT saying "we don't have one, here, use Long Island's", more than any actual plan to start using them. That said, given where the Belt runs, I could see using the LI design for that and the Cross-Island.
Actually, back in 2007, they installed an electronic sign on the Long Island Expressway (I-495) giving the estimated travel time to the Cross Island Parkway, and they use a green and white NY state route shield, like what they do for the parkways up in the Bronx and Westchester. So, even the Belt and the Cross Island aren't consistent with each other. I had suspected that they might be moving toward using that shield design through NYC, but I guess they just needed something for that sign. Meanwhile, the Grand Central Parkway has gotten a white oval with black text and a black background, so it looks like it's a New Jersey shield.
Quote from: dgolub on August 26, 2012, 10:07:02 AM
Meanwhile, the Grand Central Parkway has gotten a white oval with black text and a black background, so it looks like it's a New Jersey shield.
You know, I didn't think of the Grand Central Parkway shields as looking like New Jersey route shields, but that has to be because of the outlines where the have the full names. At one time I would've thought it might've been a better idea to have the same thing for all New York City parkway shields.
Quote from: mp_quadrillion on August 18, 2012, 09:33:41 AM
As for government-issued signs.. I'm sure someone in OK thinks their 2006 redesign of the state highway shield was OK. But at high speed (read "in practice") they leave you guessing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oklahoma_State_Highway_numbered_road_shields.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oklahoma_State_Highway_numbered_road_shields.svg)
You wouldn't think designing a functional sign is hard, but it can be.
High-speed (freeway) applications of the Oklahoma shield use a larger variant that has numbers placed lower relative to the state outline.
I have personally never experienced any difficulty reading the signs in real life, on any variant of the shield.
So, look what I found:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSCTCUKK.jpg&hash=76fb5ffa3494906bd7e1228c2563de8cb589d6cf)
It's... also a lighthouse. Eh.
How soon do you think it will be before Wikipedia has a sign template for it?
And now I need to make all-new graphics for every parkway in NYC and update the HTML too...
Quote from: Duke87 on July 06, 2014, 02:54:26 PM
So, look what I found:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSCTCUKK.jpg&hash=76fb5ffa3494906bd7e1228c2563de8cb589d6cf)
It's... also a lighthouse. Eh.
It would much more appropriate if the Haalve Moone or a similar old mast ship was used as the symbol for the Henry Hudson Parkway. Being an old traditionalist for New York's Parkways, the green state shield is always preferred.
Wonder how long that's been up? It's right in my neighborhood but I haven't seen it yet.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 06, 2014, 02:54:26 PM
So, look what I found:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSCTCUKK.jpg&hash=76fb5ffa3494906bd7e1228c2563de8cb589d6cf)
It's... also a lighthouse. Eh.
Interesting. So much time had gone by that I figured they must have called off the idea altogether. I guess it's happening after all.
Also, why a lighthouse for NYC? It makes a lot more sense for Long Island. I would have voted for the Empire State Building, since it's symbolic of the city.
Quote from: empirestate on July 07, 2014, 12:15:05 AM
Wonder how long that's been up? It's right in my neighborhood but I haven't seen it yet.
Definitely not very long. I took this on June 1:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2Fpics%2Fnymetro-20140601%2FDSCF0042-800.jpg&hash=8f036e779d83b5b63041484bcd523aaf8afa89b6)
Quote from: dgolub on July 07, 2014, 08:56:07 AM
Also, why a lighthouse for NYC? It makes a lot more sense for Long Island. I would have voted for the Empire State Building, since it's symbolic of the city.
I notice it's a different lighthouse design, so I wondered where a lighthouse might be located in Manhattan. Turns out there's only one, and it's adjacent to the Henry Hudson in Fort Washington Park, nearly beneath the GWB:
http://www.historichousetrust.org/item.php?i_id=24
...betcha that's what the design shows. I wonder if all new parkway signs in NYC will use it, or if they'll use something adjacent to the parkway in question?
Quote from: hubcity on July 07, 2014, 04:25:35 PM
I wonder if all new parkway signs in NYC will use it, or if they'll use something adjacent to the parkway in question?
...and if the latter, I'm hoping for "[Unisphere]GCP" on the Grand Central...
I would have also preferred the ESB if they were going to use one symbol for all the shields. Or maybe Lady Liberty like they did on the street signs in Midtown in the 80s. Both of those make more sense for a NYC shield than a lighthouse. I can't see them doing a different logo for each parkway, although stranger things have happened.
Quote from: storm2k on July 08, 2014, 02:27:28 PM
I would have also preferred the ESB if they were going to use one symbol for all the shields. Or maybe Lady Liberty like they did on the street signs in Midtown in the 80s. Both of those make more sense for a NYC shield than a lighthouse. I can't see them doing a different logo for each parkway, although stranger things have happened.
For this design, they happen to have used a landmark adjacent to the parkway, but we only have a sample size of one so far. If FDR or Belt signs show up with The Little Red Lighthouse (or not) we'll know for sure.
Belt: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg311052#msg311052
Quote from: vdeane on July 08, 2014, 10:41:31 PM
Belt: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg311052#msg311052
Those are nothing new. They've been in use in Brooklyn for a long time.
Quote from: dgolub on July 09, 2014, 07:28:57 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 08, 2014, 10:41:31 PM
Belt: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg311052#msg311052
Those are nothing new. They've been in use in Brooklyn for a long time.
Yeah, there's a ton of those Belt signs around Brooklyn. The lighthouse graphic is lifted directly from the LI shields although the text is placed differently. The city may or may not intend to replace them but it's not part of the new scheme.
The Grand Central has also had its own unique shield for years now: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Grand_Central_Pkwy_Shield.svg/640px-Grand_Central_Pkwy_Shield.svg.png
Everything else to date either doesn't use a shield, uses the Hudson Valley green shield, or uses some bastardization of the Hudson Valley Shield (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.830222,-73.939754,3a,15y,334.42h,93.87t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFjA4CnY6ZVOUpq8rPtpP1Q!2e0).
I will certainly have my eyes peeled for examples on other parkways, though! The lighthouse on the Henry Hudson shield is indeed the Little Red Lighthouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Red_Lighthouse), which implies a direct association with that specific parkway.
If different parkways all have different designs this is going to be totally awesome.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 10, 2014, 12:08:48 AM
If different parkways all have different designs this is going to be totally awesome.
Hmm, what to use for Mosholu? Maybe something botanical, seeing as it ends by the Botanical Gardens?
For Harlem River Drive, any way to incorporate a motif from the High Bridge? (A single arch, perhaps.)
Quote from: empirestate on July 10, 2014, 08:22:22 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 10, 2014, 12:08:48 AM
If different parkways all have different designs this is going to be totally awesome.
Hmm, what to use for Mosholu? Maybe something botanical, seeing as it ends by the Botanical Gardens?
For Harlem River Drive, any way to incorporate a motif from the High Bridge? (A single arch, perhaps.)
These both make sense. The Empire State Building could get used for the FDR Drive. Maybe a suspension bridge for the Cross Island Parkway, since it goes to the Throgs Neck and the Whitestone.
How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.
Quote from: connroadgeek on July 12, 2014, 07:23:26 PM
How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.
Their route numbers are 90xx reference route numbers. As reference routes are never posted, you'd have to change the number to post it. Statewide, there are 35 parkways (excluding Whiteface and Prospect Mountains), plus a few expressways with shields that are only referred to by name. The names have been used exclusively since the first opened (Bronx River, 1908), so replacing it wiht a number would cause much confusion, as everyone has the names drilled into their heads at a young age. Even if you only do the stuff in NYC, you'd have 12 routes that need numbers. If you don't reuse old numbers and want a block, you'd have to go into the 500s. Additionally, it is against state law to completely restrict a touring route to a certain type of vehicle (passenger cars in the case of parkways). Part of the beauty of parkways is that there aren't any trucks or buses slowing stuff down or getting in the way. Plus, a truck wouldn't be able to make it through the Hutch or Jackie Robinson, along with quite a few other parkways, without finding a low bridge, a curve too sharp for a truck to take, or lanes barely wider than a car.
Quote from: connroadgeek on July 12, 2014, 07:23:26 PM
How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever.
Where's the fun in that?
Quote from: connroadgeek on July 12, 2014, 07:23:26 PM
How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.
People in the New York City area seldom seem to know route numbers even when they're posted. I once referred to I-278 and none of my relatives (all of whom lived in Bay Ridge or on Staten Island) had no idea what I meant until my mom said "the Staten Island Expressway," never mind all the BGSs that bear I-278 shields.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 13, 2014, 10:02:53 AM
Quote from: connroadgeek on July 12, 2014, 07:23:26 PM
How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.
People in the New York City area seldom seem to know route numbers even when they're posted. I once referred to I-278 and none of my relatives (all of whom lived in Bay Ridge or on Staten Island) had no idea what I meant until my mom said "the Staten Island Expressway," never mind all the BGSs that bear I-278 shields.
Yeah, people don't use numbers for a lot of the roads in New York. One of the main roads through the town where I grew up is Port Washington Boulevard (NY 101), but probably 90% of the people in the town are clueless to the fact that it has a route number at all. Similar for Hempstead Turnpike (NY 24), Jericho Turnpike (NY 25), Northern Boulevard (NY 25A), Hillside Avenue (NY 25B), and Sunrise Highway (NY 27). Well, at least in Nassau County. Out in Suffolk County, people tend to use numbers more. Even with the Long Island Expressway, if you talk about it as I-495, people will generally get the idea that you're not from Long Island.
Quote from: cl94 on July 12, 2014, 09:53:12 PM
Additionally, it is against state law to completely restrict a touring route to a certain type of vehicle (passenger cars in the case of parkways).
Really? So what's the deal with NY 9A following the Henry Hudson Parkway for a substantial distance with no truck route? Or does New York City not count?
Does NY 27 enter the Belt Parkway at all near JFK, or does it follow the service roads? I was always wondering that one with the truck ban on the Belt Parkway and the fact that NY 27 is a major thoroughfare in Long Island. The maps show it as, but that is cause many of them are not in full closeup detail.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 13, 2014, 10:40:06 AM
Does NY 27 enter the Belt Parkway at all near JFK, or does it follow the service roads? I was always wondering that one with the truck ban on the Belt Parkway and the fact that NY 27 is a major thoroughfare in Long Island. The maps show it as, but that is cause many of them are not in full closeup detail.
NY27 EB Between Crossbay Blvd and Belt Parkway Eb - South Conduit Blvd Exit is Nassau Expressway NY 878
NY27 EB Between Belt Parkway Eb - South Conduit Blvd Exit and Hook Creek Blvd is South Conduit Blvd/Avenue
NY27 WB Between Hook Creek Blvd and Lauralton (Belt) Parkway is South Conduit Blvd/Avenue
NY27 WB Between Lauralton (Belt) Parkway and Crossbay Blvd is North Conduit Blvd/Avenue (Between JFK Expressway and Van Wyck Expressway North Conduit merges into WB Nassau Expressway (NY878) with exits at 133rd Avenue, Van Wyck Expressway I-678 NB and Van Wyck Expressway - Kennedy Airport; Nassau Expressway Ends here and North Conduit continues West)
The Belt Parkway Between Cross Bay Blvd and Exit 23 Sunrise Highway - Brookville Blvd was NY 27a from the 1940's to 1970 (Some signs were posted into the late 1970's)
Quote from: dgolub on July 13, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 12, 2014, 09:53:12 PM
Additionally, it is against state law to completely restrict a touring route to a certain type of vehicle (passenger cars in the case of parkways).
Really? So what's the deal with NY 9A following the Henry Hudson Parkway for a substantial distance with no truck route? Or does New York City not count?
Good question. That one has always baffled me, as it and I-278 are the only state or higher level routes to ban trucks for a stretch. The state law thing was the excuse Region 4 gave for not banning trucks from NY 63 (to the dismay of Pavilion, NY) and from what I can tell, there is such a law on the books (don't remember the number). I know I-278 only bans overheight vehicles, but NY 9A is an odd case. It's possible that NY 9A was granted an exception.
Quote from: cl94 on July 13, 2014, 04:25:32 PM
Quote from: dgolub on July 13, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 12, 2014, 09:53:12 PM
Additionally, it is against state law to completely restrict a touring route to a certain type of vehicle (passenger cars in the case of parkways).
Really? So what's the deal with NY 9A following the Henry Hudson Parkway for a substantial distance with no truck route? Or does New York City not count?
Good question. That one has always baffled me, as it and I-278 are the only state or higher level routes to ban trucks for a stretch. The state law thing was the excuse Region 4 gave for not banning trucks from NY 63 (to the dismay of Pavilion, NY) and from what I can tell, there is such a law on the books (don't remember the number). I know I-278 only bans overheight vehicles, but NY 9A is an odd case. It's possible that NY 9A was granted an exception.
Eh? There are plenty of other cases. US 6 bans trucks where it overlaps the Palisades Parkway. NY 370 bans trucks between I-81 and Liverpool.
Where exactly is this law that says touring routes must be open to all vehicles? I'm looking here (http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=@SLHAY0A12+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=34151325+&TARGET=VIEW) but I can't find it.
US 6 has a truck route, though NY 370 doesn't.
I-278 used to have a truck route way back when.
Overweight/overheight might not factor into that law, given the prevalence of "no trucks with R permits" signs.
The "name has been drilled into people since a young age" thing doesn't stop NYC from renaming roads.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 13, 2014, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 13, 2014, 04:25:32 PM
Quote from: dgolub on July 13, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 12, 2014, 09:53:12 PM
Additionally, it is against state law to completely restrict a touring route to a certain type of vehicle (passenger cars in the case of parkways).
Really? So what's the deal with NY 9A following the Henry Hudson Parkway for a substantial distance with no truck route? Or does New York City not count?
Good question. That one has always baffled me, as it and I-278 are the only state or higher level routes to ban trucks for a stretch. The state law thing was the excuse Region 4 gave for not banning trucks from NY 63 (to the dismay of Pavilion, NY) and from what I can tell, there is such a law on the books (don't remember the number). I know I-278 only bans overheight vehicles, but NY 9A is an odd case. It's possible that NY 9A was granted an exception.
Eh? There are plenty of other cases. US 6 bans trucks where it overlaps the Palisades Parkway. NY 370 bans trucks between I-81 and Liverpool.
Where exactly is this law that says touring routes must be open to all vehicles? I'm looking here (http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=@SLHAY0A12+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=34151325+&TARGET=VIEW) but I can't find it.
I was mistaken. My apologies. They can ban only if there are clearance issues or the like, per https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region4/projects/route63-corridor-study/rte63-faqs#4
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
I-278 used to have a truck route way back when.
It still does. If you drive along that section of Astoria Boulevard, you'll see Truck I-278 signs.
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
The "name has been drilled into people since a young age" thing doesn't stop NYC from renaming roads.
Right, and everyone still goes on talking about the Triboro and the Interboro, so anyone from out of town can be completely confused.
Quote from: dgolub on July 13, 2014, 06:35:10 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
The "name has been drilled into people since a young age" thing doesn't stop NYC from renaming roads.
Right, and everyone still goes on talking about the Triboro and the Interboro, so anyone from out of town can be completely confused.
Half of the people downstate don't know what you're taking about when they hear/see "RFK Bridge". I remember my parents wondering what the hell it was when they saw the sign for the first time. It's the Triborough to everyone and it'll be a long time before it changes. Most don't know Hempstead Turnpike and Jericho turnpike even have numbers, confusing former locals I know when NYSDOT redid the signs on the SOB and removed any mention to the road names. Slap a number on something and eliminate/change the name and you're bound to confuse people, especially because VERY few highways are referred to by number (NY 110 being a major exception).
Fun fact: I was talking with the Highway Data Services division today, and apparently the bannered truck routes in NY are all unofficial (as far as NYSDOT is concerned) and set by municipalities. As far as NYSDOT is concerned, the only bannered route is US 62 Business in Niagara Falls.
Quote from: dgolub on July 13, 2014, 06:35:10 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
The "name has been drilled into people since a young age" thing doesn't stop NYC from renaming roads.
Right, and everyone still goes on talking about the Triboro and the Interboro, so anyone from out of town can be completely confused.
And the Queensboro, and the Battery Tunnel, and the future Tappan Zee (aka "the New New York Bridge," implying that they're keeping their options open).
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2014, 11:17:01 PM
Quote from: dgolub on July 13, 2014, 06:35:10 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
The "name has been drilled into people since a young age" thing doesn't stop NYC from renaming roads.
Right, and everyone still goes on talking about the Triboro and the Interboro, so anyone from out of town can be completely confused.
And the Queensboro, and the Battery Tunnel, and the future Tappan Zee (aka "the New New York Bridge," implying that they're keeping their options open).
And the Kingston-Rhinecliff, the Mid-Hudson, and the Newburgh-Beacon... I-495 is the LIE, I-295 is the Clearview, I-678 is the Van Wyck, I-95 is the Cross Bronx, I-87 is the Major Deegan. Basically, nobody in New York pays attention to any renaming or posted route number. The current Jackie Robinson is still referred to by most as the Interborough. New Yorkers don't change unless they have to. Stop posting the name and there will be mass confusion among tourists.
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
Stop posting the name and there will be mass confusion among tourists.
So, in short, it would have no effect.
Quote from: cl94 on July 13, 2014, 06:46:51 PM
Half of the people downstate don't know what you're taking about when they hear/see "RFK Bridge". I remember my parents wondering what the hell it was when they saw the sign for the first time. It's the Triborough to everyone and it'll be a long time before it changes. Most don't know Hempstead Turnpike and Jericho turnpike even have numbers, confusing former locals I know when NYSDOT redid the signs on the SOB and removed any mention to the road names. Slap a number on something and eliminate/change the name and you're bound to confuse people, especially because VERY few highways are referred to by number (NY 110 being a major exception).
This reminds me of something that happened back when I was 5 years old. I got in the car with my mother and my sister to go to this birthday party for someone in my preschool class, and driving directions said to take the Wantagh Parkway to Sunrise Highway. The thing is that the signs for the exit don't say Sunrise Highway--they say NY 27, and no one in the car knew that they were the same thing, so we wound up at Jones Beach in the middle of the winter.
It's not just NY 110 that's the exception. Most of the three-digit routes are known by their numbers. Definitely not NY 101, though. Everyone knows it as Port Washington Boulevard, and most of the people living in Port Washington probably don't even know that it has a number.
To get back to the original topic of this thread, I emailed the person at NYSDOT who had contacted me about this two years ago. She said that she's passing my email on to a colleague to get more information, but she's pretty sure that each parkway will have a different image. I'll keep you all posted if I learn more.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 14, 2014, 11:17:01 PM
Quote from: dgolub on July 13, 2014, 06:35:10 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2014, 05:14:30 PM
The "name has been drilled into people since a young age" thing doesn't stop NYC from renaming roads.
Right, and everyone still goes on talking about the Triboro and the Interboro, so anyone from out of town can be completely confused.
And the Queensboro, and the Battery Tunnel, and the future Tappan Zee (aka "the New New York Bridge," implying that they're keeping their options open).
...and let's not forget Avenue of the Americas...a situation that got so bad that NYCDOT finally gave in and dual-signed the avenue.
Quote from: SidS1045 on July 15, 2014, 01:31:03 PM
...and let's not forget Avenue of the Americas...a situation that got so bad that NYCDOT finally gave in and dual-signed the avenue.
In fact, the oversized street name signs that hang from the traffic light poles only say 6 Avenue.
Quote from: empirestate on July 15, 2014, 01:03:34 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
Stop posting the name and there will be mass confusion among tourists.
So, in short, it would have no effect.
+1
Quote from: dgolub on July 15, 2014, 08:51:42 AM
To get back to the original topic of this thread, I emailed the person at NYSDOT who had contacted me about this two years ago. She said that she's passing my email on to a colleague to get more information, but she's pretty sure that each parkway will have a different image. I'll keep you all posted if I learn more.
YES! OH GOD YES! I love it.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 15, 2014, 09:21:03 PM
YES! OH GOD YES! I love it.
I'll have what he's having.
If my design ends up on the FDR I want $1,000.
All right, here's the answer from the person overseeing the project at NYCDOT:
Quote
We are in the process of ensuring there are no intellectual rights issues with any images, are finalizing images, and deciding between images for several parkways. No definitive timetable for implementation yet.
Quote from: dgolub on July 16, 2014, 10:05:17 PM
All right, here's the answer from the person overseeing the project at NYCDOT:
Quote
We are in the process of ensuring there are no intellectual rights issues with any images, are finalizing images, and deciding between images for several parkways. No definitive timetable for implementation yet.
Not an insignificant issue. John Oliver, on HBO's "Last Week Tonight", recently devoted some time to the Port Authority's intellectual-property-based cease-and-desist assault (https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140730/06563228056/ny-port-authority-claims-to-own-nyc-skyline-tells-store-to-destroy-skyline-themed-plates.shtml) regarding PANYNJ edifices being represented on dishes being sold as representative of New York City. And with the assistance of Colin Quinn, he kinda raked them over the coals... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44fCfJQV7yQ)
OK, Here's my thoughts with regard to the new signage:
Ideally, the parkways should have a numbering scheme like other limited access routes, with a different shaped shield to denote the restrictions on trucks. Maybe a white triangle? How about P-1, P-2, etc. for the numbering scheme?
I would say that each region of the state should have a section of numbers: P-1 thru P-19 for eastern LI; P-20 through P-39 for NYC; P-40 through P-59 for Hudson Valley; P-60 through P-79 for North Central NY; P-80 through P-99 for Western NY.
Route Numbers are the ideal way for concise representation on a map and because of how widely these roads are used by the public, they need shields. A name alone is not sufficient as it would be for a local street.
The Arroyo Seco Parkway in California restricts trucks, yet its a controlled access parkway and treated by cars as part of the freeway system and accordingly is signed as CA-110.
If they can't incorporate route numbers because of the state laws that others mentioned, then the next best thing are route markers as they have in LI and as they are proposing here. I would avoid the lighthouse, because even though they are taking a picture of a different lighthouse, almost everyone associates the lighthouse with Long Island. HHP heads directly to Manhattan, use the ESB as the symbol for all NYC parkways.
As for the abbreviations? Well, you can't repeat what is already used in LI and elsewhere, so come up with your own abbreviations:
GCP Grand Central Pkwy
BP Belt Pkwy
CIP Cross Island Pkwy
JRP Jackie Robinson Pkwy
FDR FDR Drive
HHP Henry Hudson Pkwy
BRP Bronx River Parkway
HRD Harlem River Drive
MOP Moshulu Pkwy
KVP Korean War Veterans Parkway
Quote from: mrsman on August 10, 2014, 04:36:29 PM
OK, Here's my thoughts with regard to the new signage:
Ideally, the parkways should have a numbering scheme like other limited access routes, with a different shaped shield to denote the restrictions on trucks. Maybe a white triangle? How about P-1, P-2, etc. for the numbering scheme?
I would say that each region of the state should have a section of numbers: P-1 thru P-19 for eastern LI; P-20 through P-39 for NYC; P-40 through P-59 for Hudson Valley; P-60 through P-79 for North Central NY; P-80 through P-99 for Western NY.
Route Numbers are the ideal way for concise representation on a map and because of how widely these roads are used by the public, they need shields. A name alone is not sufficient as it would be for a local street.
The Arroyo Seco Parkway in California restricts trucks, yet its a controlled access parkway and treated by cars as part of the freeway system and accordingly is signed as CA-110.
If they can't incorporate route numbers because of the state laws that others mentioned, then the next best thing are route markers as they have in LI and as they are proposing here. I would avoid the lighthouse, because even though they are taking a picture of a different lighthouse, almost everyone associates the lighthouse with Long Island. HHP heads directly to Manhattan, use the ESB as the symbol for all NYC parkways.
As for the abbreviations? Well, you can't repeat what is already used in LI and elsewhere, so come up with your own abbreviations:
GCP Grand Central Pkwy
BP Belt Pkwy
CIP Cross Island Pkwy
JRP Jackie Robinson Pkwy
FDR FDR Drive
HHP Henry Hudson Pkwy
BRP Bronx River Parkway
HRD Harlem River Drive
MOP Moshulu Pkwy
KVP Korean War Veterans Parkway
They have shields that appear on maps provided by state agencies and local companies. Each one has a unique shield that either looks like the state shield or is a regional shield. Everyone knows what the Long Island parkway shields look like and they're all over the place. Lake Ontario is usually signed with shield alone. Anything with a wordy shield is referred to by name on BGSes. Everybody knows the parkways by name and the parkway system in general is typically used by locals (downstate at least), because trucks aren't allowed and Mapquest/Google loves routing people on Interstate highways more prone to heavy traffic. Tourists wouldn't think to use the Northern State instead of the LIE because Google Maps says the LIE is faster, which is only true if both roads are moving at the speed limit (a rarity).
For the LI/NYC shield, few people could really care less about what is on it other than the letters. They use the initials of the parkway name with a second letter if there are duplications. The Henry Hudson, for example, is HH. Jackie Robinson will likely be JR, Bronx River BR, etc. Having different landmarks for each parkway is a cool idea. Put a silhouette that shows a well-known landmark (the Cyclone for the Belt, etc.) to reflect the culture of each borough. You'd really piss off people in Brooklyn and Queens if the Empire State Building was on the Belt, Jackie Robinson, or Cross Island.
Quote from: cl94 on August 10, 2014, 05:28:50 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 10, 2014, 04:36:29 PM
OK, Here's my thoughts with regard to the new signage:
Ideally, the parkways should have a numbering scheme like other limited access routes, with a different shaped shield to denote the restrictions on trucks. Maybe a white triangle? How about P-1, P-2, etc. for the numbering scheme?
I would say that each region of the state should have a section of numbers: P-1 thru P-19 for eastern LI; P-20 through P-39 for NYC; P-40 through P-59 for Hudson Valley; P-60 through P-79 for North Central NY; P-80 through P-99 for Western NY.
Route Numbers are the ideal way for concise representation on a map and because of how widely these roads are used by the public, they need shields. A name alone is not sufficient as it would be for a local street.
The Arroyo Seco Parkway in California restricts trucks, yet its a controlled access parkway and treated by cars as part of the freeway system and accordingly is signed as CA-110.
If they can't incorporate route numbers because of the state laws that others mentioned, then the next best thing are route markers as they have in LI and as they are proposing here. I would avoid the lighthouse, because even though they are taking a picture of a different lighthouse, almost everyone associates the lighthouse with Long Island. HHP heads directly to Manhattan, use the ESB as the symbol for all NYC parkways.
As for the abbreviations? Well, you can't repeat what is already used in LI and elsewhere, so come up with your own abbreviations:
GCP Grand Central Pkwy
BP Belt Pkwy
CIP Cross Island Pkwy
JRP Jackie Robinson Pkwy
FDR FDR Drive
HHP Henry Hudson Pkwy
BRP Bronx River Parkway
HRD Harlem River Drive
MOP Moshulu Pkwy
KVP Korean War Veterans Parkway
They have shields that appear on maps provided by state agencies and local companies. Each one has a unique shield that either looks like the state shield or is a regional shield. Everyone knows what the Long Island parkway shields look like and they're all over the place. Lake Ontario is usually signed with shield alone. Anything with a wordy shield is referred to by name on BGSes. Everybody knows the parkways by name and the parkway system in general is typically used by locals (downstate at least), because trucks aren't allowed and Mapquest/Google loves routing people on Interstate highways more prone to heavy traffic. Tourists wouldn't think to use the Northern State instead of the LIE because Google Maps says the LIE is faster, which is only true if both roads are moving at the speed limit (a rarity).
For the LI/NYC shield, few people could really care less about what is on it other than the letters. They use the initials of the parkway name with a second letter if there are duplications. The Henry Hudson, for example, is HH. Jackie Robinson will likely be JR, Bronx River BR, etc. Having different landmarks for each parkway is a cool idea. Put a silhouette that shows a well-known landmark (the Cyclone for the Belt, etc.) to reflect the culture of each borough. You'd really piss off people in Brooklyn and Queens if the Empire State Building was on the Belt, Jackie Robinson, or Cross Island.
The original document that the NYSDOT put out back in 2012 states the letters that they plan on using. It's available at http://www.greaternyroads.info/pdfs/nycparksign.pdf, and the letters are on page 4.