New Signage for Parkways in New York City

[Alps]

Steve, so FDR Dr is on the East Side of Manhattan. WTC is on the West Side (on West Street). For FDR Dr I suggest using the Empire State Building in place of Freedom Tower. I would suggest Freedom Tower to be used on the HH Parkway (Henry Hudson Pkwy, NY 9A) shield.

I think the whole idea is, just like the LI parkways, to have a unified design for the NYC parkways, not one dependent on the road's location.

Indeed. Though it would be pretty awesome to get to design separate ones for each parkway.

[dgolub]

I'd sooner think that these were put up by someone reading the wrong specs for a Parkway shield, or NYCDOT saying "we don't have one, here, use Long Island's", more than any actual plan to start using them. That said, given where the Belt runs, I could see using the LI design for that and the Cross-Island.

Actually, back in 2007, they installed an electronic sign on the Long Island Expressway (I-495) giving the estimated travel time to the Cross Island Parkway, and they use a green and white NY state route shield, like what they do for the parkways up in the Bronx and Westchester.  So, even the Belt and the Cross Island aren't consistent with each other.  I had suspected that they might be moving toward using that shield design through NYC, but I guess they just needed something for that sign.  Meanwhile, the Grand Central Parkway has gotten a white oval with black text and a black background, so it looks like it's a New Jersey shield.

[D-Dey65]

Meanwhile, the Grand Central Parkway has gotten a white oval with black text and a black background, so it looks like it's a New Jersey shield.

You know, I didn't think of the Grand Central Parkway shields as looking like New Jersey route shields, but that has to be because of the outlines where the have the full names. At one time I would've thought it might've been a better idea to have the same thing for all New York City parkway shields.

[Scott5114]

As for government-issued signs.. I'm sure someone in OK thinks their 2006 redesign of the state highway shield was OK. But at high speed (read "in practice") they leave you guessing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oklahoma_State_Highway_numbered_road_shields.svg

You wouldn't think designing a functional sign is hard, but it can be.

High-speed (freeway) applications of the Oklahoma shield use a larger variant that has numbers placed lower relative to the state outline.

I have personally never experienced any difficulty reading the signs in real life, on any variant of the shield.

[Duke87]

So, look what I found:


It's... also a lighthouse. Eh.

[vdeane]

How soon do you think it will be before Wikipedia has a sign template for it?

And now I need to make all-new graphics for every parkway in NYC and update the HTML too...

[xcellntbuy]

So, look what I found:


It's... also a lighthouse. Eh.

It would much more appropriate if the Haalve Moone or a similar old mast ship was used as the symbol for the Henry Hudson Parkway.  Being an old traditionalist for New York's Parkways, the green state shield is always preferred.

[empirestate]

Wonder how long that's been up? It's right in my neighborhood but I haven't seen it yet.

[dgolub]

So, look what I found:


It's... also a lighthouse. Eh.

Interesting.  So much time had gone by that I figured they must have called off the idea altogether.  I guess it's happening after all.

Also, why a lighthouse for NYC?  It makes a lot more sense for Long Island.  I would have voted for the Empire State Building, since it's symbolic of the city.

[Jim]

Wonder how long that's been up? It's right in my neighborhood but I haven't seen it yet.

Definitely not very long.  I took this on June 1:

[hubcity]

Also, why a lighthouse for NYC?  It makes a lot more sense for Long Island.  I would have voted for the Empire State Building, since it's symbolic of the city.

I notice it's a different lighthouse design, so I wondered where a lighthouse might be located in Manhattan. Turns out there's only one, and it's adjacent to the Henry Hudson in Fort Washington Park, nearly beneath the GWB:

http://www.historichousetrust.org/item.php?i_id=24

...betcha that's what the design shows. I wonder if all new parkway signs in NYC will use it, or if they'll use something adjacent to the parkway in question?

[hubcity]

I wonder if all new parkway signs in NYC will use it, or if they'll use something adjacent to the parkway in question?

...and if the latter, I'm hoping for "[Unisphere]GCP" on the Grand Central...

[storm2k]

I would have also preferred the ESB if they were going to use one symbol for all the shields. Or maybe Lady Liberty like they did on the street signs in Midtown in the 80s. Both of those make more sense for a NYC shield than a lighthouse. I can't see them doing a different logo for each parkway, although stranger things have happened.

[hubcity]

I would have also preferred the ESB if they were going to use one symbol for all the shields. Or maybe Lady Liberty like they did on the street signs in Midtown in the 80s. Both of those make more sense for a NYC shield than a lighthouse. I can't see them doing a different logo for each parkway, although stranger things have happened.

For this design, they happen to have used a landmark adjacent to the parkway, but we only have a sample size of one so far. If FDR or Belt signs show up with The Little Red Lighthouse (or not) we'll know for sure.

[vdeane]

Belt: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg311052#msg311052

[dgolub]

Belt: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg311052#msg311052

Those are nothing new.  They've been in use in Brooklyn for a long time.

[Duke87]

Belt: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg311052#msg311052

Those are nothing new.  They've been in use in Brooklyn for a long time.

Yeah, there's a ton of those Belt signs around Brooklyn. The lighthouse graphic is lifted directly from the LI shields although the text is placed differently. The city may or may not intend to replace them but it's not part of the new scheme.

The Grand Central has also had its own unique shield for years now: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Grand_Central_Pkwy_Shield.svg/640px-Grand_Central_Pkwy_Shield.svg.png

Everything else to date either doesn't use a shield, uses the Hudson Valley green shield, or uses some bastardization of the Hudson Valley Shield.

I will certainly have my eyes peeled for examples on other parkways, though! The lighthouse on the Henry Hudson shield is indeed the Little Red Lighthouse, which implies a direct association with that specific parkway.

If different parkways all have different designs this is going to be totally awesome.

[empirestate]

If different parkways all have different designs this is going to be totally awesome.

Hmm, what to use for Mosholu? Maybe something botanical, seeing as it ends by the Botanical Gardens?

For Harlem River Drive, any way to incorporate a motif from the High Bridge? (A single arch, perhaps.)

[dgolub]

If different parkways all have different designs this is going to be totally awesome.

Hmm, what to use for Mosholu? Maybe something botanical, seeing as it ends by the Botanical Gardens?

For Harlem River Drive, any way to incorporate a motif from the High Bridge? (A single arch, perhaps.)

These both make sense.  The Empire State Building could get used for the FDR Drive.  Maybe a suspension bridge for the Cross Island Parkway, since it goes to the Throgs Neck and the Whitestone.

[connroadgeek]

How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.

[cl94]

How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.

Their route numbers are 90xx reference route numbers. As reference routes are never posted, you'd have to change the number to post it. Statewide, there are 35 parkways (excluding Whiteface and Prospect Mountains), plus a few expressways with shields that are only referred to by name. The names have been used exclusively since the first opened (Bronx River, 1908), so replacing it wiht a number would cause much confusion, as everyone has the names drilled into their heads at a young age. Even if you only do the stuff in NYC, you'd have 12 routes that need numbers. If you don't reuse old numbers and want a block, you'd have to go into the 500s. Additionally, it is against state law to completely restrict a touring route to a certain type of vehicle (passenger cars in the case of parkways). Part of the beauty of parkways is that there aren't any trucks or buses slowing stuff down or getting in the way. Plus, a truck wouldn't be able to make it through the Hutch or Jackie Robinson, along with quite a few other parkways, without finding a low bridge, a curve too sharp for a truck to take, or lanes barely wider than a car.

[empirestate]

How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever.

Where's the fun in that?

[1995hoo]

How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.

People in the New York City area seldom seem to know route numbers even when they're posted. I once referred to I-278 and none of my relatives (all of whom lived in Bay Ridge or on Staten Island) had no idea what I meant until my mom said "the Staten Island Expressway," never mind all the BGSs that bear I-278 shields.

[dgolub]

How about they just use their numeric designations?? Then you don't have to worry about designs or whatever. Even the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut is always co-signed with a 15 shield.

People in the New York City area seldom seem to know route numbers even when they're posted. I once referred to I-278 and none of my relatives (all of whom lived in Bay Ridge or on Staten Island) had no idea what I meant until my mom said "the Staten Island Expressway," never mind all the BGSs that bear I-278 shields.

Yeah, people don't use numbers for a lot of the roads in New York.  One of the main roads through the town where I grew up is Port Washington Boulevard (NY 101), but probably 90% of the people in the town are clueless to the fact that it has a route number at all.  Similar for Hempstead Turnpike (NY 24), Jericho Turnpike (NY 25), Northern Boulevard (NY 25A), Hillside Avenue (NY 25B), and Sunrise Highway (NY 27).  Well, at least in Nassau County.  Out in Suffolk County, people tend to use numbers more.  Even with the Long Island Expressway, if you talk about it as I-495, people will generally get the idea that you're not from Long Island.

[dgolub]

Additionally, it is against state law to completely restrict a touring route to a certain type of vehicle (passenger cars in the case of parkways).

Really?  So what's the deal with NY 9A following the Henry Hudson Parkway for a substantial distance with no truck route?  Or does New York City not count?