Third Infantry Division Highway ("I-3")

[Grzrd]

There has been recent discussion about I-3 on GHT - "Projects .. Roadgeeks" thread, but, with the election season upon us, I thought I would start a regional thread:

From the August 23, 2010 Atlanta Journal-Constitution:
http://www.ajc.com/news/interstate-from-savannah-to-597123.html

It's been talked about for years, but the idea of an interstate linking Savannah and Knoxville is getting an actual hearing now that the Federal Highway Administration has begun a feasibility study... Agency spokesman Doug Hecox said the study into the proposed Interstate 3 began in June....
The administration will use the study as a "resource that would inform discussion,"  Hecox told the Times Free Press, but that doesn't necessarily mean the interstate is going to be built. The study will look at routes, costs and impacts on tourism, industry and the environment.
Hecox told the Chattanooga Times Free Press that the study would only show options for the route. If the project moves forward, the states involved would make the final choice, he said."
There is no time frame for the study's completion, but Hecox said he hopes the results would be in by the end of 2011.

Aug. 28, 2010 editorial from Savannah Morning News strongly advocates building the Savannah-Augusta leg of the route buts wants "mountain" part to be studied very closely:

http://savannahnow.com/opinion/2010-08-28/no-brainer

To sum up my previously stated position from the other thread:  Build the road as interstate-grade from Savannah to Augusta to I-85, but do not build an interstate-grade road from I-85 up to Knoxville.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHT (EDIT)

I also would not mind an associated feasibility study of extending I-77 southward from Columbia to link with the Savannah-Augusta portion of the proposed road.

Also, here's a link to the Chattanooga Times Free Press article: (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/aug/22/interstate-eyed/).  Interestingly, it looks like mountain-area business groups are more interested in upgrading the Chattanooga-Asheville Corridor K than building I-3.

[ShawnP]

Aside from the numbering issues. I can see a need for a Interstate from Augusta to Savannah. However north of that I can't see any need for one as the traffic would be so light. Then add in the issues with the enviroment and it's a no go.

[RoadWarrior56]

There is no money to build so-called I-3 anyway.  Besides, the non-interstate roadway between Savannah and Augusta has recently been upgraded to four-lanes.

[ShawnP]

I know and it's alot better than it was when it was two lanes.

[rickmastfan67]

I also would not mind an associated feasibility study of extending I-77 southward from Columbia to link with the Savannah-Augusta portion of the proposed road.

I'll second that one.  US-321, while it has a high speed limit (55mph), has way too many little towns along it.  Plus this would also help relieve traffic on I-95/I-26 by cutting the distance between Savannah and Columbia in half.

[kaothinterceptor]

As I have family in Augusta, and they live about a mile from the proposed I-3 highway, I say that this is a damn good idea.

My uncle Brad would LOVE to be near an Interstate honoring Dale Earnhardt... and this is the ONLY reason I support the number 3 for this highway.

[rickmastfan67]

My uncle Brad would LOVE to be near an Interstate honoring Dale Earnhardt... and this is the ONLY reason I support the number 3 for this highway.

Only problem with that is it doesn't honor Dale Earnhardt.  It's suppose to be honoring the "Third Infantry Division".

[kaothinterceptor]

My uncle Brad would LOVE to be near an Interstate honoring Dale Earnhardt... and this is the ONLY reason I support the number 3 for this highway.

Only problem with that is it doesn't honor Dale Earnhardt.  It's suppose to be honoring the "Third Infantry Division".

You don't understand how southern men think. Any time they see, hear or think about the number 3, the first thing they think of is Dale Earnhardt.

[rickmastfan67]

My uncle Brad would LOVE to be near an Interstate honoring Dale Earnhardt... and this is the ONLY reason I support the number 3 for this highway.

Only problem with that is it doesn't honor Dale Earnhardt.  It's suppose to be honoring the "Third Infantry Division".

You don't understand how southern men think. Any time they see, hear or think about the number 3, the first thing they think of is Dale Earnhardt.

I know about that.  I am a NASCAR fan after all.

[Grzrd]

Maybe it is NOT etched in stone that it would be I-3 if built:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/sec1927corridors.htm

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) expects to carry out Section 1927 of the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users (SAFETEA-LU) as directed by the law. Essentially this will result in a number of studies being completed on two highway corridors. One links Augusta, GA, Macon, GA, Columbus, GA, Montgomery, AL and Natchez, MS. It is referred to in the statute as the 14th Amendment Highway. Some interested groups and individuals refer to this as "I-14". One links Savannah, GA, Augusta GA and Knoxville, TN. It is referred to in the statute as the 3rd Infantry Division Highway. Some interested groups and individuals refer to this as "I-3". The FHWA prefers to use neither the term "I-14" nor the term "I-3". This is because the corridor is not designated as a future interstate. In addition since no preferred alignment for these highways has been established, the FHWA prefers to use the word 'corridor' when discussing these potential highways.

The FHWA prefers to not refer to the corridor as I-3   (I had never bothered to look before).  It is not even designated as a future interstate  .  Now, if we can get the media and interest groups to drop the term, too ... (Sorry, NASCAR fans)

If built from Knoxville through mountains as interstate grade, then I would like to see it as extension of I-81.
If built to the west of the mountains as interstate grade, then I would like to see it as I-75 from Chattanooga vicinity to Knoxville and then an extension of I-24 from Chattanooga vicinity to Savannah.

If noninterstate grade, then just use existing federal and state routes.

[froggie]

If noninterstate grade, then just use existing federal and state routes.

This is the most realistic and the most likely outcome.  Especially since the Federal spigot is running dry.

[kaothinterceptor]

Maybe it is NOT etched in stone that it would be I-3 if built:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/sec1927corridors.htm

"The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) expects to carry out Section 1927 of the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users (SAFETEA-LU) as directed by the law. Essentially this will result in a number of studies being completed on two highway corridors. One links Augusta, GA, Macon, GA, Columbus, GA, Montgomery, AL and Natchez, MS. It is referred to in the statute as the 14th Amendment Highway. Some interested groups and individuals refer to this as "I-14". One links Savannah, GA, Augusta GA and Knoxville, TN. It is referred to in the statute as the 3rd Infantry Division Highway. Some interested groups and individuals refer to this as "I-3". The FHWA prefers to use neither the term "I-14" nor the term "I-3". This is because the corridor is not designated as a future interstate. In addition since no preferred alignment for these highways has been established, the FHWA prefers to use the word 'corridor' when discussing these potential highways."

The FHWA prefers to not refer to the corridor as I-3  (I had never bothered to look before).  It is not even designated as a future interstate  .  Now, if we can get the media and interest groups to drop the term, too ... (Sorry, NASCAR fans)

If built from Knoxville through mountains as interstate grade, then I would like to see it as extension of I-81.
If built to the west of the mountains as interstate grade, then I would like to see it as I-75 from Chattanooga vicinity to Knoxville and then an extension of I-24 from Chattanooga vicinity to Savannah.

If noninterstate grade, then just use existing federal and state routes.

If non-Interstate grade, then designate as a southern U.S. 3.

NASCAR fans usually get what NASCAR fans want, and I bet they'd love to have a U.S. 3 down there in NASCAR country.

[cjk374]

Can you imagine the cost of having to replace all of the signs that the "fans" will steal over time.    And please tell me there is no FHWA font that comes close to looking like the #3 that was on Dale's car. 

[kaothinterceptor]

Can you imagine the cost of having to replace all of the signs that the "fans" will steal over time.    And please tell me there is no FHWA font that comes close to looking like the #3 that was on Dale's car. 

1. Only if the signs were in the same font as the #3 on Dale's car.

2. ...I don't think Childress would allow it. That font is copyrighted.

[Grzrd]

FHWA has narrowed list of potential routes down to four, with the leading candidate being Corridor A's western bypass of the mountains. Here's a link to a map of the four routes under consideration:
http://www.wayssouth.org/campaigns/stop-i-3/resources/potential-i3-routes/

Here's a link to the FHWA expert working group's (EWG's) minutes from their March 8 meeting:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/section_1927/3rd_infantry_highway/expert_working_group/third_meeting_minutes.cfm

...Public opposition is likely for any of the four corridors in the northern section, particularly the corridors that impact GRSM [Great Smoky Mountains National Park] (Corridors B and C). EWG input stated that the team shouldn't pre-aggravate the public; the team recommends only the least controversial corridors move forward for further analysis to develop planning-level cost estimates ...
John Mettille presented the project team's recommendations for consideration by the EWG of which corridor should be carried forward for preparation of steps and costs to complete in the project's next task.
North of Lavonia — Corridor A Western Option, Interstate design level (could have combination of design levels for cost estimate)
South of Lavonia — Corridor A, B, or B Bypass, Interstate or arterial (combination) ...
The next meeting will be in late April to discuss the steps and costs to complete ...

Here's a link to an article in a Dahlonega newspaper that describes Corridor A's route as a revival of the Northern Arc:
http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/articles/2011/03/31/news/02%20interstate.txt

...The preferred route from I-85 to I-95 [sic? I-75?] is the old Northern Arc touted for years but never built. The leg that runs on State Route 52 to Ellijay is part of the old Appalachian Scenic Corridor/Foothills Parkway, which many people in Lumpkin County called "the truck route"  and organized to fight ... they will price it as an interstate, a four-lane and an improved two-lane...

Corridor D is intriguing because it is entirely along existing alignment and could include an upgrade of US 321 as a southern extension of I-77 from Columbia to Savannah.

[kaothinterceptor]

FHWA has narrowed list of potential routes down to four, with the leading candidate being Corridor A's western bypass of the mountains. Here's a link to a map of the four routes under consideration:

http://www.wayssouth.org/campaigns/stop-i-3/resources/potential-i3-routes/

Here's a link to the FHWA expert working group's (EWG's) minutes from their March 8 meeting:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/section_1927/3rd_infantry_highway/expert_working_group/third_meeting_minutes.cfm

"...Public opposition is likely for any of the four corridors in the northern section, particularly the corridors that impact GRSM [Great Smoky Mountains National Park] (Corridors B and C). EWG input stated that the team shouldn't pre-aggravate the public; the team recommends only the least controversial corridors move forward for further analysis to develop planning-level cost estimates ...

John Mettille presented the project team's recommendations for consideration by the EWG of which corridor should be carried forward for preparation of steps and costs to complete in the project's next task.

North of Lavonia — Corridor A Western Option, Interstate design level (could have combination of design levels for cost estimate)

South of Lavonia — Corridor A, B, or B Bypass, Interstate or arterial (combination) ...

The next meeting will be in late April to discuss the steps and costs to complete ..."

Here's a link to an article in a Dahlonega newspaper that describes Corridor A's route as a revival of the Northern Arc:

http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/articles/2011/03/31/news/02%20interstate.txt

"...The preferred route from I-85 to I-95 [sic? I-75?] is the old Northern Arc touted for years but never built. The leg that runs on State Route 52 to Ellijay is part of the old Appalachian Scenic Corridor/Foothills Parkway, which many people in Lumpkin County called "the truck route"  and organized to fight ... they will price it as an interstate, a four-lane and an improved two-lane..."

Corridor D is intriguing because it is entirely along existing alignment and could include an upgrade of US 321 as a southern extension of I-77 from Columbia to Savannah.

Oddly enough, that's been something we roadgeeks have been all over: An I-77 extension from Columbia, SC to Savannah, GA via Augusta.

...Speaking of which, I vote for using I-520 to US 25 for the routing around Augusta.

[froggie]

Oddly enough, that's been something we roadgeeks have been all over: An I-77 extension from Columbia, SC to Savannah, GA via Augusta.

Maybe a few have, but they've so far been very much in the minority.


I read through those minutes a bit.  One option, not mentioned yet on this forum but suggested by two people in the working group (including the NCDOT rep) is for a No Build/signage option that would only post signs along the corridor honoring the Third Infantray Division.  Which, when one boils it down, meets the purpose without spending huge amounts of scarce (and about-to-be-scarcer) transportation dollars on a roadway with dubious benefit and likely opposition (especially in the mountains).

[kaothinterceptor]

Oddly enough, that's been something we roadgeeks have been all over: An I-77 extension from Columbia, SC to Savannah, GA via Augusta.

Maybe a few have, but they've so far been very much in the minority.


I read through those minutes a bit.  One option, not mentioned yet on this forum but suggested by two people in the working group (including the NCDOT rep) is for a No Build/signage option that would only post signs along the corridor honoring the Third Infantray Division.  Which, when one boils it down, meets the purpose without spending huge amounts of scarce (and about-to-be-scarcer) transportation dollars on a roadway with dubious benefit and likely opposition (especially in the mountains).

This just happens to be another idea from the Watson Bros., by the way.

Speaking of which, I could use a updated list of Fictional Interstate ideas... the Watson Bros. list is from 2005...

[NE2]

Who cares about the Watson Bros.? And why are you discussing fictional highways outside the fictional ghetto?

[kaothinterceptor]

Who cares about the Watson Bros.? And why are you discussing fictional highways outside the fictional ghetto?

Because in this case, a fictional freeway is ON TOPIC for this section.

[NE2]

Nope.

[froggie]

Because in this case, a fictional freeway is ON TOPIC for this section.

Not in this instance.

[rickmastfan67]

Because in this case, a fictional freeway is ON TOPIC for this section.

Not in this instance.

Agreed.  Any Watson Bros. fictional stuff should be talked about in the Fictional Highways area.

[Henry]

Oddly enough, that's been something we roadgeeks have been all over: An I-77 extension from Columbia, SC to Savannah, GA via Augusta.

Maybe a few have, but they've so far been very much in the minority.


I read through those minutes a bit.  One option, not mentioned yet on this forum but suggested by two people in the working group (including the NCDOT rep) is for a No Build/signage option that would only post signs along the corridor honoring the Third Infantray Division.  Which, when one boils it down, meets the purpose without spending huge amounts of scarce (and about-to-be-scarcer) transportation dollars on a roadway with dubious benefit and likely opposition (especially in the mountains).

This just happens to be another idea from the Watson Bros., by the way.

Speaking of which, I could use a updated list of Fictional Interstate ideas... the Watson Bros. list is from 2005...

Glad you remembered! It's something my brother Jeff and I concocted back in 2005, and posted online that summer. It remained until 2009, when Yahoo! discontinued the GeoCities section.

Lately I've been too busy to try to get a new updated list online, but I still have the files, and I will add some new content if and when I decide to get them back online again.

Because in this case, a fictional freeway is ON TOPIC for this section.

Not in this instance.

Agreed.  Any Watson Bros. fictional stuff should be talked about in the Fictional Highways area.

That's what I would've said! Although I could've done without the reference that makes us sound like the Warners!

[Grzrd]

If anyone is interested, there are opportunities to participate in an online hearing re Third Infantry Division Highway next week:

http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=238545

A proposed Interstate highway that would cross the northeast Georgia mountains will be the subject of three online information sessions hosted by the Federal Highway Administration ...
Two of the information sessions on the 3rd Infantry Division Highway Corridor Study will be held next Tuesday, May 17, and the third, the following day.
Tuesday's will be held at from 12:00-1:00 and 6:30-7:30 and the one on Wednesday will be held from 10:00-11:00.
The study is being conducted to satisfy federal law.
Participants in the three webinar sessions will be allowed to submit questions. to submit your questions and get answers. Each session will begin with a brief overview of the study process and key findings.
Pre-register to reserve a space in one of the session by using one of these links:
Tuesday lunchtime: https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/739903006
Tuesday evening: https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/868736998
Wednesday morning: https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/128482726
More information about the project is available online at http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/section_1927/