Louisville Bridges Project/Spagehtti Junction rebuild

[ShawnP]

It's gonna have to be tolls but on all the roads is a bit much to me. I do not support tolling the already built Kennedy bridge. I would support tolling a brand new bridge but not one already paid for.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100819/NEWS01/308190041/Spaghetti+Junction+tolls+considered+to+pay+for+bridges

[froggie]

Tolls on Interstate bridges (i.e. Kennedy bridge) are allowable.  Tolls on interchanges (i.e. Spaghetti Junction) are a different matter entirely.

[hbelkins]

As a Kentuckian, I think the proposed project is overkill.

I definitely think the east end bridge is necessary. Spaghetti Junction can be a real pain, especially during rush hour, but I don't think a second bridge is needed.

My solution would be to reroute I-64 onto I-265 once the east end bridge is built, and ban through trucks inside the Watterson Expressway. That would require rebuilding the cloverleaf at the interchange between 64 and 265, but that needs to be done anyway because it's a PITA as well.

[ShawnP]

Agree overkill as it would be much cheaper to six lane I-64 and I-71 to downtown Louisville. Plus if you direct truck traffic around Louisville on a new I-265 I would recommend 6 laning it all the way thru to handle the extra traffic.

[hbelkins]

Agree overkill as it would be much cheaper to six lane I-64 and I-71 to downtown Louisville. Plus if you direct truck traffic around Louisville on a new I-265 I would recommend 6 laning it all the way thru to handle the extra traffic.

I-64 will never be six-laned between the Watterson and Spaghetti Junction. There are issues similar to I-66 inside the beltway, plus the matter of the Cochran Hill tunnels.

[ShawnP]

Unfortunately I agree with the six laning but it's a bottleneck as to the west and east on I-64 are six lane before this section. Drive it alot and it does noticably back up traffic to downtown Louisville. As far as the tunnels......newer, prettier ones can be built.

[froggie]

HBE wasn't referring just to the tunnels, but to the longstanding and organized opposition which in some cases is opposed to the existence of I-64 outright (hence the 8664 group), let alone widening that stretch.

[hbelkins]

The 8664 group just wants to eliminate the interstate from Spaghetti Junction westward along the riverfront and turn it into a surface boulevard. They'd leave the existing route intact between Spaghetti Junction and the Watterson. It was a struggle to get that section built due to environmental issues, the park the route cuts through, etc., and that's the problem with widening the existing route to 6 lanes. It's possible two new lanes could be put in the median, but there's still the tunnel issue.

[RoadWarrior56]

The I-64 tunnel in east Lousiville has been designated as a Historic Resource.  For that reason alone, I don't ever see that tunnel being widened or altered in a significant way.

[ShawnP]

That tunnel if the Spagehtti Junction is rebuilt will become a drag on the whole Louisville regional transportation system. With a complete rebuild of the Junction coming online and with it much more traffic flowing thru. The backups could easily back up into the new Junction thus defeating the purpose of the rebuild. I know the historical nature of the tunnel and it is a very scenic drive from downtown to the Watterson. One thing Kentucky could do is rebuild I-71 to 8 lanes out to the Watterson to help relieve pressure on that section of I-64 plus maybe even after the tunnel rebuild it to six lanes with athsetic touches to help smooth over community feelings. All solutions are expensive but for Louisville and area to grow some solutions must be forthcoming. Plus since Louisville is the biggest money maker in the Commonwealth is affects the Commonwealth.

[hbelkins]

With the East End bridge to be built before Spaghetti Junction is redone and the new bridge built, I don't think the tunnel will be as much of a choke point as you are fearing.

[ShawnP]

The east end bridge might help but how much? Will the thru traffic going west on I-64 use it and I-265? Maybe but you never know until the bridge is built and we see the traffic patterns.

[NWI_Irish96]

The east end bridge might help but how much? Will the thru traffic going west on I-64 use it and I-265? Maybe but you never know until the bridge is built and we see the traffic patterns.

I don't know about the thru traffic, but as somebody who lives in Indiana near where the bridge is to be built, I can tell you that a lot of commuters from Indiana to the East End of Louisville would no longer be using that stretch of 64.

[ShawnP]

I wouldn't mind building I-265 across the Ohio on the western side. Yes it would be right in my back yard also probably within 3-5 miles and it would save alot of time.

[hbelkins]

The east end bridge might help but how much? Will the thru traffic going west on I-64 use it and I-265? Maybe but you never know until the bridge is built and we see the traffic patterns.

Ban through trucks inside the Watterson, and sign I-265 north at Exit 19 for "Indianapolis/Evansville/St. Louis" instead of "Gene Snyder Freeway," and you'll take a lot of traffic off I-64 inside the Watterson and through the tunnels. Or route I-64 along the Snyder and renumber I-64 between I-265 in Kentucky and I-265 in Indiana.

[froggie]

But how much of the traffic on I-64 is truly thru-traffic, vice traffic that has an origin or destination in the Louisville area?

[hbelkins]

But how much of the traffic on I-64 is truly thru-traffic, vice traffic that has an origin or destination in the Louisville area?

Not sure, but my experience has been that there's a huge backup in the left lane of I-64 westbound as it approaches Spaghetti Junction, because that lane drops to form the exit to I-65.

[Revive 755]

Article last month regarding the bridges project:
http://leoweekly.com/news/great-barrier

EDIT:  'Study' cited in above article for the alternate, local bridge idea:
http://www.wiserdesigns.com/uploads/Congestion_-_Safety__Study_8-10-2010.pdf

I didn't know that I-64 had replaced I-70 across Missouri 

Also seems I-71 traffic has no need to access SB I-65 (page 7/12)

[seicer]

Ohio River Bridges Project update
Bridges & Tunnels, February 14, 2011

The Ohio River Bridges Project, consisting of two new Ohio River crossings and a reconstructed Spaghetti Junction, has been in the planning process for nearly a decade. The project includes,

* The Downtown Bridge, a planned Interstate 65 northbound-only span connecting Louisville, Kentucky to Jeffersonville, Indiana spanning the Ohio River as part of the Ohio River Bridges Project. Once complete, the existing Kennedy Bridge will be re-designated for Interstate 65 south.
* The East End Bridge, a proposed highway crossing over the Ohio River northeast of Louisville, Kentucky. The bridge would connect the Gene Snyder Freeway/Kentucky State Route 841 in Kentucky to the Lee Hamilton Highway/Indiana State Route 265 in Indiana, and be designated as Interstate 265 once the freeway is completed. The proposal also features a tunnel under the historic Drumanard Estate, a reconstructed Indiana State Route 62 diverging diamond interchange, and a reconfigured U.S. Route 42 interchange.
* A reconstructed Spaghetti Junction interchange, which consists of ramps for Interstates 64, 65 and 71 in the Butchertown district of Louisville.

1 Downtown Bridge rendering


2 Drumanard Estate tunnel and U.S. Route 42 interchange


3 East End Bridge


Click through to view the rest of the article.

[ShawnP]

More information here.........

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110602/NEWS01/306020026/Officials-Bridges-project-savings-could-total-1-2-billion?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Home

[hbelkins]

I still say I can save 'em a whole lot of money. Don't build a new downtown bridge, keep the East End Bridge at 3 lanes, and ban thru trucks inside the Watterson Expressway and route all truck traffic onto the new bridge. Maybe even route I-64 onto I-265 to make it appear to be the thru route and just build some flyovers to connect it to the Snyder.

[froggie]

I've seen a rendering of the revised Spaghetti Junction design.  Given that it involves left exits and entrances along I-64, I don't see FHWA going for it.

[ShawnP]

Thing is Kennedy bridge is falling apart and in bad need of a new deck. Plus NO left hand exits at all!!!!!!!!!

[RoadWarrior56]

The firm that I work for is the lead designer on both versions of the redesigned interchange in downtown Louisville.  I work in a branch office, so I was not personally involved.

[hbelkins]

I've seen a rendering of the revised Spaghetti Junction design.  Given that it involves left exits and entrances along I-64, I don't see FHWA going for it.

The exits from I-64 to I-65 are currently left exits in both directions. In addition, the exit from I-65 south to I-64 west is a left entrance and an evil weave is required to exit to Third Street, which is the main downtown exit on I-64.