DOT Stereotypes

[Mergingtraffic]

A lot of DOT's has the they are the bumbling idiot stereotype.

I'm sure you've heard the classic line:  One guy shoveling while 6 others watch.

Any incidents where they seem to live up to their stereotype?

Case in point: 
In my state of CT there was a mile backup during the midday on I-84 and the reason was the DOT had the left lane closed for street sweeping and there was NO dirt or sand.  Clear blacktop!

[Brandon]

IDOT: we can't even spell "idiot" properly.

[realjd]

I've heard the one guy shoveling while 6 watch stereotype not about the DOT themselves but about the construction workers who work for contractors.

FDOT did something particularly obnoxious not too long ago. They spent who knows how many millions of dollars to completely reconstruct the toll booths on the Turnpike down in Miami, then less than a year later tore them down and went to all electronic tolls. Not that the electronic tolls are bad, just that we spent that much money building something only to destroy it.

When they were widening one of the roads near my house here in Palm Bay, the city landscaping crews went through and planted a bunch of nice palm trees in the median, only to have them ripped up two weeks later by the construction crews.

[vdeane]

My town decided to replace the water lines in my neighborhood... in January.  They then planted new grass a few months later and promptly reconstructed one of the streets from the foundation immediately afterwards.

EDIT: Should also mention that they missed two houses when reseeding the grass!  Unless they intended to reseed with pebbles instead of grass seed.

[agentsteel53]

renaming CA-110 to a parkway.  where, again, does California get the money to do this??

[Ian]

PennDOT: bad at everything, slow with everything, shutting down a lane with no work going on and much, much more... 

[agentsteel53]

shutting down a lane with no work going on

that's all states.  why pass up revenue when you can collect it?

the three greatest words in the English language: double fine zone.

[ftballfan]

shutting down a lane with no work going on

that's all states.  why pass up revenue when you can collect it?

the three greatest words in the English language: double fine zone.

Michigan doesn't do it that often, but then again I'm never in the Detroit area.

[Brandon]

shutting down a lane with no work going on

that's all states.  why pass up revenue when you can collect it?

the three greatest words in the English language: double fine zone.

Even better in Illinois where 45 mph is THE speed limit for ALL construction zones even if workers are NOT present.  $375 Fine Minimum.  Never mind IowaDOT, MDOT, InDOT, and MoDOT think 60 mph is perfectly safe for this.

[Revive 755]

I'm sure you've heard the classic line:  One guy shoveling while 6 others watch.

I think this line means the person is not staying around long enough to see when the other six are needed; there are times when the other six may have to stay out of the way of the guy digging, but they may be needed to help hold whatever goes in the hole that is beening dug.  Or it could be the other six are waiting on a PCC or HMA truck to bring necessary material they are to help place and smooth out.  It's easier to have some workers stand around for a little bit than be without them when they are needed.

Even better in Illinois where 45 mph is THE speed limit for ALL construction zones even if workers are NOT present.  $375 Fine Minimum.  Never mind IowaDOT, MDOT, InDOT, and MoDOT think 60 mph is perfectly safe for this.

The last few times I've found Indiana to be just as bad, if not worse for 45 mph zones when no workers are present than Illinois - a long 45 mph work zone on I-94 in a regular 70 for a resurfacing with no one present a couple years ago comes to mind.  At least the southern parts of Illinois seem to have been somewhat better about only going to 45 with workers present, but they still seem to leave the work zones at an annoying 55 in a regular 65.

Also, these work zone speed limit reductions are often a standard set by one or two people way up in the DOT hierarchy; the many underlings in the DOT don't get much of a choice in the matter.  With IDOT not using 60 for work zones likely has to do with the state speed limit laws; Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota and Indiana all have a max speed of 70, so the 10 mph standard work zone deduction put them at 60; IDOT can only start at 55, or 45 in Chicagoland.

[vdeane]

Except they don't have to have a deduction.  I've only seen one speed limit deduction in NYSDOT region 9, and been through numerous work zones in the region.

[mukade]

The last few times I've found Indiana to be just as bad, if not worse for 45 mph zones when no workers are present than Illinois - a long 45 mph work zone on I-94 in a regular 70 for a resurfacing with no one present a couple years ago comes to mind.

As a resident of Indiana, this is the way I have seen it done in my area:
- Speed 35 mph if lane(s) is narrowed/45 mph on divided highways where 55 is normal
- Speed 45 mph for construction zone on 2 lane/55 mph on freeways and expressways where 65-70 is normal
- many construction zones have a 10 mph less speed zone "when lights are flashing" - that signifies that workers are present
- for things like night time resurfacing where the lanes are fully open during the day, the speed limit seems to not be lowered during the day

Generally, you do not see lane closures where no construction activity is going on unless weather dictates otherwise. For example, on the SR 22 widening near where I live, there are various crews all along the construction area every day, and they even work overnight. I rarely see the miles of closed lane with no activity around here. Most projects get done early due to incentives.

As far as enforcement of speed limits in construction areas goes, I would say Indiana is too lax. They throw the book at drivers who hit workers, though.

[ctsignguy]

A couple i can think of....

> Years ago, when i worked in downtown Dayton, they repaved all the main streets in the downtown section....nice new smooth asphalt...then a week later, the water department comes in and rips up the pavement to redo the manhole covers!  And the nice smooth pavement becomes as bad as the old pavement....

> Old joke:  What is yellow and sleeps six?    Answer: An ODOT work truck

[mhallack]

There's a stand up comedian from our wonderful state of Maine, Bob Marley, and one of his quips is called "Construction on Rt. 302" Basically the MDOT is having a meeting on when to do work on Route 302 (US Hwy going between Portland and Conway NH, gets clogged a lot during summer) One worker says "uuh...JULY!!"
"Yeah July will be great, nobody will be up here in July. Nobody except EVERYBODY!!" 

But Maine DOT still does the work on the most travelled roads in summer anyway!!

[ftballfan]

For construction zones, 10 under seems to be the norm.
On highways with 55 mph limits: 45 mph regardless if workers are present or not
On freeways: 60 mph w/o workers, 45 w/ workers

[PAHighways]

> Old joke:  What is yellow and sleeps six?    Answer: An ODOT work truck

I've heardit as "what is big, yellow, and sleeps eight?" for PennDOT.

[on_wisconsin]

The only thing I've heard negative about WisDOT is about some ugly signage in MKE and our state's love of unishields.
So what do people think of WisDOT? 

[Revive 755]

The only thing I've heard negative about WisDOT is about some ugly signage in MKE and our state's love of unishields.
So what do people think of WisDOT?  

I'm not impressed with WisDOT for the following:

* Excessive usage of stop signs for right turns at signalized intersections
* Crappy bypass design
* Excessive partial cloverleaf conversions to diamonds.
* Not finishing at least an expressway grade US 12 between I-43 and Madison
* The poor handling of WI 50 between US 12 and I-94 - should be a 65 mph route, have a bypass of that town near WI 83, and more interchanges instead of the numerous stoplights that have sprouted along the route

And the following, but I'm not sure these are entirely under WisDOT's control:
* The removal of the Park East Freeway
* Urban speed limits around Milwaukee - the reduction to 55 happens too far out
* The ramp metering around Milwaukee - they seem to keep the meters on more than necessary
* Having new stoplights be vertical instead of horizontal

[SteveG1988]

Penndot: Confusing drivers since day 1

They seem to be quite adept at making confusing detour signage.

[vdeane]

* Urban speed limits around Milwaukee - the reduction to 55 happens too far out

If it's like I-81's 55mph limit in Binghamton, NY, WisDOT has nothing to do with it.  I-81's speed limit drops from 65 to 55 about a mile away from the southbound exit 3 (Industrial Park) with no change in roadway or traffic conditions.  It should drop about a half mile before the northbound exit 3 (Broad Ave), about two miles away from here (no, I don't understand why they're both exit 3 either; just a quirk of NYSDOT region 9, I guess).  I never understood why the speed limit dropped here, until I noticed a "city of Binghamton" sign right next to the 55mph sign.  The explanation is really quite simple: the state legislature usually won't let NYSDOT post a speed limit higher than 55 within the borders of a city (they also don't allow surface streets to be posted higher than 30 in a city or village except in extreme circumstances, such as being a divided highway).  It's also the reason for I-81's speed limits in Syracuse.

[ftballfan]

* Urban speed limits around Milwaukee - the reduction to 55 happens too far out

If it's like I-81's 55mph limit in Binghamton, NY, WisDOT has nothing to do with it.  I-81's speed limit drops from 65 to 55 about a mile away from the southbound exit 3 (Industrial Park) with no change in roadway or traffic conditions.  It should drop about a half mile before the northbound exit 3 (Broad Ave), about two miles away from here (no, I don't understand why they're both exit 3 either; just a quirk of NYSDOT region 9, I guess).  I never understood why the speed limit dropped here, until I noticed a "city of Binghamton" sign right next to the 55mph sign.  The explanation is really quite simple: the state legislature usually won't let NYSDOT post a speed limit higher than 55 within the borders of a city (they also don't allow surface streets to be posted higher than 30 in a city or village except in extreme circumstances, such as being a divided highway).  It's also the reason for I-81's speed limits in Syracuse.

Not a problem in Michigan, where I-496 in Lansing is 70 mph, despite running less than a mile from downtown at one point. Same with US-131 and I-196 in Grand Rapids, which are 70 and 65 respectively except for a short section of US-131 (the S-Curve).

[InterstateNG]

* Urban speed limits around Milwaukee - the reduction to 55 happens too far out

If it's like I-81's 55mph limit in Binghamton, NY, WisDOT has nothing to do with it.  I-81's speed limit drops from 65 to 55 about a mile away from the southbound exit 3 (Industrial Park) with no change in roadway or traffic conditions.  It should drop about a half mile before the northbound exit 3 (Broad Ave), about two miles away from here (no, I don't understand why they're both exit 3 either; just a quirk of NYSDOT region 9, I guess).  I never understood why the speed limit dropped here, until I noticed a "city of Binghamton" sign right next to the 55mph sign.  The explanation is really quite simple: the state legislature usually won't let NYSDOT post a speed limit higher than 55 within the borders of a city (they also don't allow surface streets to be posted higher than 30 in a city or village except in extreme circumstances, such as being a divided highway).  It's also the reason for I-81's speed limits in Syracuse.

Not a problem in Michigan, where I-496 in Lansing is 70 mph, despite running less than a mile from downtown at one point. Same with US-131 and I-196 in Grand Rapids, which are 70 and 65 respectively except for a short section of US-131 (the S-Curve).

That's a very recent (and welcome) change in Michigan.  Most urban freeways are now at 70 mph thanks to conclusions from studies and traffic engineers.

[Brandon]

* Urban speed limits around Milwaukee - the reduction to 55 happens too far out

If it's like I-81's 55mph limit in Binghamton, NY, WisDOT has nothing to do with it.  I-81's speed limit drops from 65 to 55 about a mile away from the southbound exit 3 (Industrial Park) with no change in roadway or traffic conditions.  It should drop about a half mile before the northbound exit 3 (Broad Ave), about two miles away from here (no, I don't understand why they're both exit 3 either; just a quirk of NYSDOT region 9, I guess).  I never understood why the speed limit dropped here, until I noticed a "city of Binghamton" sign right next to the 55mph sign.  The explanation is really quite simple: the state legislature usually won't let NYSDOT post a speed limit higher than 55 within the borders of a city (they also don't allow surface streets to be posted higher than 30 in a city or village except in extreme circumstances, such as being a divided highway).  It's also the reason for I-81's speed limits in Syracuse.

Not a problem in Michigan, where I-496 in Lansing is 70 mph, despite running less than a mile from downtown at one point. Same with US-131 and I-196 in Grand Rapids, which are 70 and 65 respectively except for a short section of US-131 (the S-Curve).

That's a very recent (and welcome) change in Michigan.  Most urban freeways are now at 70 mph thanks to conclusions from studies and traffic engineers.

And State Police who are interested in traffic flow and safety, not revenue.  Those were MSP studies that led to the 70mph limit.

[SSOWorld]

Illinois DOT: 55 mph speed limit half-way around the world from Chicago.

[triplemultiplex]

* Not finishing at least an expressway grade US 12 between I-43 and Madison

No point until Illinois does something with that corridor.

* The removal of the Park East Freeway

Good riddance.  Oh boo hoo, there's three traffic lights between I-43 and East Town now.  That freeway had no traffic and was a waste of space.  The only reason stuff hasn't been built in the vacated land is because of bureaucratic retardedness.  Not to mention the Marquette rebuild would've cost at least another $100 million if we were keeping that chode road.

* Urban speed limits around Milwaukee - the reduction to 55 happens too far out

Eh I think it's fine.  The reductions all happen right before interchange density increases.  I-43 from the north runs into that shit-ass interchange at Brown Deer Rd with the 15 mph entrance ramps and since they decided to rebuild as-is last year <derp> there's no way I want 70 mph traffic going through that abortion.
I-94 from the west comes down that big ass hill, so it seems reasonable to drop the speed down before folks come barreling down Sunny Slope.[/quote]

That's all I'd really dispute about those.

I'm torn between two stereotypes about WisDOT.
1. Cheaping out on some highway expansions like bypasses or some stretches of those "Corridors 2020" routes.
2. Building new highways long before they might be needed to keep the road building companies happy.