School Busses and Their rules

[roadman65]

Why do vans that are used as buses have to stop at RR crossings?  If they are vans they should follow rules of vans not busses!  The law for trucks and buses to stop are because of their length as vans and pick ups are shorter and are therefore exempt like cars are.  Buses on van chasis are still the same length as regular vans and have the same motors and all, and therefore should not have to treat themselves as full length buses.

In Florida you do not have to stop for school buses on divided highways if the bus is on the other side of the median. Yet, most Floridians consider a center turn lane (suicide lane) as a divider.   If a bus does stop in the opposing lanes of this type of highway, many on the other side of the bus continue.  I STOP completely as the law states, and almost got hit by a ignorant man in a pick up who passed me at full highway speed while he saw me stopped and the bus lights flashing RED.  It is not that much inconvenience to stop for a minuet to let kids out. To rationalize by telling oneself that a center turn lane is a median is really childish.

[Kacie Jane]

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with length. It has to do with the cargo, be it hazardous (i.e. propane) or precious (ie schoolchildren). I don't think Walmart trucks and Greyhound buses have to stop at railroad crossings, but I could be wrong.

[hbelkins]

In Florida you do not have to stop for school buses on divided highways if the bus is on the other side of the median. Yet, most Floridians consider a center turn lane (suicide lane) as a divider.   If a bus does stop in the opposing lanes of this type of highway, many on the other side of the bus continue.  I STOP completely as the law states, and almost got hit by a ignorant man in a pick up who passed me at full highway speed while he saw me stopped and the bus lights flashing RED.  It is not that much inconvenience to stop for a minuet to let kids out. To rationalize by telling oneself that a center turn lane is a median is really childish.

Does Florida's law require that? In some states, it doesn't.

Kentucky usually places signs, "Stop Not Required For School Buses On Opposite Side of Median/Road" (the wording varies) and they can often be found on four-lane routes where the divider is a TWLTL.

[NE2]

Does Florida's law require that? In some states, it doesn't.

The driver of a vehicle upon a divided highway with an unpaved space of at least 5 feet, a raised median, or a physical barrier is not required to stop when traveling in the opposite direction of a school bus which is stopped in accordance with the provisions of this section.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Well, this happens on four-lane roads that encounter railroad crossings, as well.

In which case you're not "stuck" behind the bus since you can pass it at any time it isn't stopped.

How common is it to have a grade crossing on a four lane road in Virginia? There aren't too many around here.

I can name several off the top of my head in the Richmond-Petersburg area: Hungary Rd east of US 33, Brook Rd in Richmond, Forest Hill Ave in Richmond (which actually runs through an interchange with VA 76), Hermitage Rd in Richmond, and VA 156 in Hopewell.

[tdindy88]

This may be a stupid question and I apologize if I'm not seeing the logic on it, but why do school buses have to stop on tracks. Even if there's a train coming, wouldn't it be better to just get off the freakin' track and away from the train. Is there an expectation that all the kids are going to have enough time to get off the bus before the train hits it. Cars don't stop on the track because we don't want to get hit by a train, but buses and trucks with hazerous materials have to, am I missing something?

[Scott5114]

They don't stop on the track!

[Dr Frankenstein]

They stop before the tracks.

[mjb2002]

Back to America. Why do school buses open the front door when they stop at railroad tracks?

To listen for trains.

They do this in Kentucky, too. Probably a federal requirement.

I have also noted that gasoline tankers and propane trucks come to a complete stop at RR crossings.

It's a federal law for school buses to stop at all RR grade crossings.  It's archaic and stupid, IMHO.  It was fine for a time when grade crossing lacked lights and gates, but in the modern era, it's silly.

I agree. It is stupid to stop at railroad crossings - especially if the highway where the crossing is located at has a posted speed limit of more than 50 mph (e.g. Trask Pwky in Beaufort County - has a RR and a speed limit of 60 mph). It would make a whole lot more sense to stop at RRs - regardless of whether it is a bus, a small car, or a moped - that has a stop sign posted underneath it - I see quite a bit of these in Aiken County, esp. on Augusta Rd and Park Ave.

And funny that none of the buses come to a complete stop when it comes to speed bumps, it is as if the drivers want to destroy the buses or something.

[realjd]

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with length. It has to do with the cargo, be it hazardous (i.e. propane) or precious (ie schoolchildren). I don't think Walmart trucks and Greyhound buses have to stop at railroad crossings, but I could be wrong.

Walmart trucks do not have to stop at crossings but Grayhound busses do. All hazmat and passenger commercial vehicles (which include school busses) are required to stop and look/listen for a train (which includes opening the door to help listen). Go check your state's CDL manual for more information.

[Scott5114]

Back to America. Why do school buses open the front door when they stop at railroad tracks?

To listen for trains.

They do this in Kentucky, too. Probably a federal requirement.

I have also noted that gasoline tankers and propane trucks come to a complete stop at RR crossings.

It's a federal law for school buses to stop at all RR grade crossings.  It's archaic and stupid, IMHO.  It was fine for a time when grade crossing lacked lights and gates, but in the modern era, it's silly.

I agree. It is stupid to stop at railroad crossings - especially if the highway where the crossing is located at has a posted speed limit of more than 50 mph (e.g. Trask Pwky in Beaufort County - has a RR and a speed limit of 60 mph). It would make a whole lot more sense to stop at RRs - regardless of whether it is a bus, a small car, or a moped - that has a stop sign posted underneath it - I see quite a bit of these in Aiken County, esp. on Augusta Rd and Park Ave.

And funny that none of the buses come to a complete stop when it comes to speed bumps, it is as if the drivers want to destroy the buses or something.

If you notice a sign that says EXEMPT under the RR crossbuck I believe that means that the crossing is exempt from this law. If that's the case most high-speed crossings should be signed with this EXEMPT plaque.

[realjd]

If you notice a sign that says EXEMPT under the RR crossbuck I believe that means that the crossing is exempt from this law. If that's the case most high-speed crossings should be signed with this EXEMPT plaque.

State by state. Indiana doesn't have an EXEMPT law, most other states do. It's usually high speed tracks and little used sidings.

[vdeane]

Walmart trucks do not have to stop at crossings but Grayhound busses do. All hazmat and passenger commercial vehicles (which include school busses) are required to stop and look/listen for a train (which includes opening the door to help listen). Go check your state's CDL manual for more information.

That's what the mast arms and flashing lights are for.  If railroad crossings are so unsafe that school buses and the like need to stop, then everyone should be required to stop.

[1995hoo]

Walmart trucks do not have to stop at crossings but Grayhound busses do. All hazmat and passenger commercial vehicles (which include school busses) are required to stop and look/listen for a train (which includes opening the door to help listen). Go check your state's CDL manual for more information.

That's what the mast arms and flashing lights are for.  If railroad crossings are so unsafe that school buses and the like need to stop, then everyone should be required to stop.

You're assuming that the arms and flashing lights cannot malfunction.

Once upon a time, the tort standard of care at railroad crossings was indeed for all drivers to "stop, look, and listen," as laid down by Judge Learned Hand. Later, in urban areas as crossings were upgraded, the courts found that the reasonable man would be entitled to rely on the warning lights and arms–but for unique vehicles like school buses and hazmats, which often move a lot more slowly anyway, the old requirement was generally retained. It makes sense to me for something like a hazmat in particular: If the warning system malfunctions and a train slams into a tanker truck, you may have a very serious problem.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

It's called "buy what you build".  The Germans do it, the Japanese do it, we should too. 

If the Americans made something I wanted - a RWD, turbocharged station wagon that actually handles - I'd buy it.  Alas, only the Swedes could manage it (and actually sell it here - Nissan has had at least one RWD turbo wagon since turbos became popular, but it's never been sold here).  Of course, I've never bought a brand-new car (and never intend to) so it doesn't matter anyway.  What's done is done.

As for the stopping, the crossing safety devices are not foolproof.  They can malfunction just like anything else.  I believe this is why the hazmat/school bus stop at RR crossings mandate still stands.

edit:// he ^ beat me to it.

[Kacie Jane]

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with length. It has to do with the cargo, be it hazardous (i.e. propane) or precious (ie schoolchildren). I don't think Walmart trucks and Greyhound buses have to stop at railroad crossings, but I could be wrong.

Walmart trucks do not have to stop at crossings but Grayhound busses do. All hazmat and passenger commercial vehicles (which include school busses) are required to stop and look/listen for a train (which includes opening the door to help listen). Go check your state's CDL manual for more information.

Thanks for clearing that up!  At least I was half right.

[formulanone]

There's also lots of rural RR crossings with no arms nor lights, so busses have to stop in Florida.

Good to know that 5 foot median rule is still in effect. It's increasingly rare for busses to stop and let out kids on multi-lane roads, in my neck of the woods.

[Duke87]

There's also lots of rural RR crossings with no arms nor lights,

In which case "stop, look, listen" applies for everyone.

Typically unprotected crossings are on sparsely used tracks crossing sparsely used roads.

For the unaware: what you are listening for is not "click clack", but rather the sound of a train's horn. Trains always sound their horn when approaching a grade crossing unless there is a sign saying they won't.

[agentsteel53]

Trains always sound their horn when approaching a grade crossing unless there is a sign saying they won't.

in which case it might be the most helpful to park, get out of the car, and make absolutely damn sure you don't hear the train coming at 80mph.

[ftballfan]

Today I was going down a five lane road (two lanes each direction plus a center turn lane) and a school bus was letting off children. The bus did not turn on its lights; it just pulled over on the shoulder so (a) traffic does not have to stop and (b) children don't have to cross the very busy road as it apparently turns around and drops kids off on the other side of the road later.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

All the state and county roads with RR crossings here in Delaware Co. Ohio have at least the flashing lights (not all have the mast arms).

[realjd]

There's also lots of rural RR crossings with no arms nor lights, so busses have to stop in Florida.

Those are now required to be stop or yield sign controlled. We don't have any uncontrolled crossings around here so I don't know how quickly the state will come into compliance on that new rule.

[formulanone]

There's probably not many (if any), that are traversed by school buses. CR 17 (Detjens Dairy Road) at US 27 springs to mind...I've never seen any trains around there, but I suppose the Central Florida Express might use it once in a blue moon.

[Bryant5493]

MARTA buses do the same thing here, stop at railroad crossings and turn on their hazards and open the door. There are still a few minor crossings that don't have flashing red lights (some don't have arms either).


Be well,

Bryant