This Has Wreck Written All Over It

[ShawnP]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/28/3291085/drivers-learning-how-to-run-buses.html

[kphoger]

If you read carefully, there will only be buses allowed on the shoulder during traffic jams, and drivers are still not allowed to fly by standstill traffic.  Shouldn't be much of an issue.  Does this mean the shoulder now gets the same priority as through lanes when it comes to snow plowing?

[J N Winkler]

The article still leaves it unclear what happens at exit ramps when the shoulders become available for bus usage.  Do buses have to yield to ramp traffic, or vice versa?  The signing and striping contracts were advertised several months ago and do not include signs which explain how to resolve the conflict either to car or bus drivers.

[ShawnP]

What happens if you break down on the shoulder? Does KDOT tow you and then charge you because of this stupid bus lane nonsense>

[AsphaltPlanet]

This activity is common on Ontario freeways.  Typically, buses are regulated to 60km/h (40 MPH) during while running in the shoulder during times of congestion.  Merging traffic at off-ramps isn't much of an issue, so long as their is appropriate signage reminding drivers that the shoulder doubles as a bus lane.

[J N Winkler]

Merging traffic at off-ramps isn't much of an issue, so long as their is appropriate signage reminding drivers that the shoulder doubles as a bus lane.

What about exiting traffic?  That is the issue here--car traffic must exit from the right-hand general purpose lane and cut across the buses' path to do so when shoulder running is active and buses are in the shoulder.

[JREwing78]

Cleveland's enacted it too on a few freeways. Couldn't tell you how well it works because I'm never there during a rush hour. Speaking of which, that's really the only time this would happen, so one would imagine ramp traffic would be moving pretty slowly. It'd still make me nervous if I was a city bus driver.

[AsphaltPlanet]

What about exiting traffic?  That is the issue here--car traffic must exit from the right-hand general purpose lane and cut across the buses' path to do so when shoulder running is active and buses are in the shoulder.

In this example the bus by-pass lane ends at the beginning of the speed change lane for the exit.  As is visible in the photo, signs direct motorists that the bus by-pass lane ends at the beginning of the speed change lanes.  Signs have also been placed at regular intervals along the freeway to advice traffic that buses run along the shoulder.  There are a couple of freeways here that are like that, and I have never heard of a lot of problems with their operations.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ottawa,+ON,+Canada&hl=en&ll=45.446117,-75.586989&spn=0.005103,0.011362&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=46.898798,93.076172&vpsrc=6&hnear=Ottawa,+Ottawa+Division,+Ontario,+Canada&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.445939,-75.587102&panoid=1RS--a1CnepXQg8SlI5Cmg&cbp=12,38.77,,0,1.27

[kphoger]

I've seen shoulders signed for bus use near Minneapolis, too.  I can't imagine they would make exiting traffic yield to through bus traffic; that's a recipe for disaster.  It would make a lot more sense for bus drivers (who have gone through extra training) to yiled to exiting traffic; that would also explain any lack of signage advising of the opposite.

[froggie]

Minnesota statute 169.306 governs the use of shoulders by buses in Minnesota, where it is now pretty extensive within the Twin Cities metro with almost no problems or the gloom-and-doom that Shawn suggests.

In a nutshell, the buses are limited to a 35 MPH speed and in reply to Mr. Winkler, the buses yield to exiting and entering traffic and vehicles legally in the shoulder (i.e. broken down vehicles).

[ShawnP]

I want gloom and doom as I hate shoulders being used for traffic by cheap SOB's unwilling to spend money to add on to highways.

[NE2]

I want gloom and doom

Asshole.

[ShawnP]

No just true road geek who see's shoulders for what they are. A place to move broken cars and trucks to maintain mainline traffic. By putting buses or other vehicles on shoulders you increase the public danger.

[NE2]

[froggie]

No just true road geek who see's shoulders for what they are. A place to move broken cars and trucks to maintain mainline traffic. By putting buses or other vehicles on shoulders you increase the public danger.

It's a minimal, at worst, increase in public danger.  And the public benefits of faster transit service are well worth it.

[ShawnP]

If KDOT hadn't let their money get stolen (like MODOT had to do with Admendment 3). Then KDOT could have money to add zipper lanes on I-35.

[froggie]

That's a legislative decision.  Don't like it?  Contact your legislator.

[J N Winkler]

KDOT has had to cope with transfers of some of its funding to the state general fund, but in theory these are all to be repaid at a later date and none of the transfers have been large enough to derail the ten-year highway programs.  KDOT has a preference for low-maintenance capital construction because of its budgeting emphasis on lifecycle costs, and zipper lanes are most emphatically not low-maintenance--I highly doubt they were even on the table when bus transit on I-35 was being studied.

[The High Plains Traveler]

Minnesota first did this in the Twin Cities in the early 1990s along I-35W coming into Minneapolis from the south. They have since expanded it to other freeways - U.S. 10 coming in from Anoka comes to mind. (Actually, the new HOV lane where 35W has been widened should have eliminated the need for this original experiment but I haven't been back in a while to see if it's still there). If it were a significant cause of increased accidents it would have been done away with.

[Scott5114]

Are there really that many buses operating in Johnson County that this will make a significant impact on anything–traffic levels, bus ridership, transit times, etc?