State Route Oddities

[ftballfan]

This may be a Google Maps error, but it shows CR 435 running along Hiwassee Rd and Apopka-Vineland Rd/Clarcona Rd between Clarcona-Ocoee Rd and FL 414 (Maitland Extension).

[roadman65]

Apopka-Vineland (south of SR 50) is not CR 435 in any practical way. There used to be signs at the south end marking it, but those are now gone, and I doubt there were ever signs north of Vineland.

There are signs now on Hiawassee Road from SR 438 (Silver Star Road) showing it to be CR 435.  Orange County is funny about posting route shields as you know.  FDOT is also the same way as you only see CR 423 to be posted on Sand Lake Road for John Young and a few in NW Orange. I wonder if the CR 532 is still there in eastern Orange County?

[NE2]

Yes, Silver Star is north of SR 50. SR 435 followed Kirkman-Colonial-Hiawassee-Silver Star-Apopka Vineland, and the possible southern piece at Vineland came later if at all.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00016513/00001/1x?vo=3 (1955, pre-Kirkman)
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00016509/00001/1x?vo=3 (1982, last pre-county road, still no SR 435 on Apopka-Vineland south of SR 50)
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00015606/00001/1x?vo=3 (1997, FDOT now has CR 435 on all of Apopka-Vineland, but it's kind of hard for the state to define county roads)

[Takumi]

This photo contains the entirety of VA 162. Its west end is at the York County sign, and its east end is at the traffic light in the far background.



Despite this, it's well-posted, with a reassurance shield going each way. The eastbound one is sort of in the above picture, hidden behind the blue Adopt A Highway sign.

[flowmotion]

I just noticed the Wyoming/Idaho/Utah border area on Google Maps and thought it was a little odd.

http://g.co/maps/sgmht

Here we have Wyoming 89 branching off US 89 right before the latter heads west into ID.

http://g.co/maps/cuc7b

Nearby, we have Wyoming 89 again and Utah 30 connecting US 30 and US 89.

What's going on here? Are these states trying to confuse tourists to keep them in-state? Or was this an old attempt at stealing US routes from their neighbors?

[agentsteel53]

for a while I had thought that was an old alignment of US-89: take WY-89 south from that T junction, to US-30 and to the second WY-89 segment, and then up UT-30 (old US-30S, IIRC), to Garden City, UT to connect again with US-89.

I do not believe it ever was an old alignment, but it may have been proposed, and Wyoming did some aggressive numbering.

California and Arizona did this in anticipation of the extensions of US-95 and US-195.  What is now AZ-95 and US-95 in Arizona was the extension that Arizona proposed.  

California proposed a much further west route, and had, at one point, signed as bear 95 a segment of road that would be US-395, between what is nowadays CA-14 and US-15 (back then, CA-7 and US-91), through Kramer's Junction and the newly signed (1934) US-466.  

What became US-95 in California in 1938 or 1939 was originally bear 195, in anticipation of that branch route being extended, as opposed to 395 being the extended number (which came in 1935).

the finalized US-95 (again, 1938 or 1939) was a compromise between California and Arizona's requests for US routes, with the northern half of the route coming out of Vegas doing so in California, before hopping (along with US-60/70) across the Colorado River to Arizona.

so I am thinking that that 89 was also an aggressive renumbering proposal: numbering a state highway in anticipation of its hoped-for future US designation.  Any other examples of this out there?  the CA/AZ is the only one I can think of.

[TheStranger]

so I am thinking that that 89 was also an aggressive renumbering proposal: numbering a state highway in anticipation of its hoped-for future US designation.  Any other examples of this out there?  the CA/AZ is the only one I can think of.

Much of US 93 in Arizona was once AZ 93.  The southern portion of AZ 93 was decommissioned in the 80s but did provide the most direct Phoenix-Nogales route before being functionally supplanted by I-10 and I-19.

[Takumi]

VA had some US "extension" routes that eventually become federal US routes: VA 522, VA 301, and VA 17 all eventually became those US routes, but in the case of 522 and 31 I think the plans were already in place to put them there. VA 17 took awhile to become US 17. But the US highway number continuing as a state route is fairly common here.

There, I fixed it.

[hbelkins]

federal routes

[flowmotion]

Good background info agentsteel - and I'd agree AZ 95 is another "oddity". (You'd think they would have given up by now and renumbered it.)

[agentsteel53]

Good background info agentsteel - and I'd agree AZ 95 is another "oddity". (You'd think they would have given up by now and renumbered it.)

it's especially odd given that its current routing is implied to be through Needles, CA, complete with Arizona-furnished green signs.

Mojave County 1 was the original alignment, but apparently there was a land dispute with a Native American tribe and the land could not be used for a state highway.

[agentsteel53]

Much of US 93 in Arizona was once AZ 93.  The southern portion of AZ 93 was decommissioned in the 80s but did provide the most direct Phoenix-Nogales route before being functionally supplanted by I-10 and I-19.

you are right on 93... I had forgotten about that one.

also, I seem to recall vaguely a Montana state route 287.

any instances of state-to-interstate upgrades like this?  CA-15 may one day qualify, if they ever upgrade it to full interstate standard. 

[formulanone]

federal routes

We call US 1 down in Broward County "Federal Highway", which isn't so much and oddity as much it probably just pisses off at least a half-dozen members on this forum.

Florida SR 78 is weird because it changes maintenance status from state to county and back to state and county again.

[mightyace]

any instances of state-to-interstate upgrades like this?  CA-15 may one day qualify, if they ever upgrade it to full interstate standard. 

I can't think of any like this off the top of my head and TN 840 to I-840 is mainly roadgeek conjecture at this point.

However, my home state of PA has several interstates that were state or US routes, albeit not the same number.

1) Part of I-180 was PA 147.
2) The I-376 extension was PA 60.
3) The PA 17 in NW PA became I-86.
4) The Northeast Extension of the PA Turnpike (I-476) was previously PA 9.
5) Most of I-83 started life as US 111.
6) The infamous I-99 was solely US 220 before the I-99 shields went up.  Someday, US 15 will join that party.

Of course, you do have the other way around with I-378 to PA 378.

[corco]

The amusing thing is that when you're on US-89 south heading towards the Idaho line, all the destinations on mileage signs are for things along Wyoming 89, and billboards aggressively promote that way as "The fastest route between Salt Lake and Yellowstone"- Wyoming really wants people going that way for some reason

It probably is faster than US-89, but much less scenic

[agentsteel53]

The amusing thing is that when you're on US-89 south heading towards the Idaho line, all the destinations on mileage signs are for things along Wyoming 89, and billboards aggressively promote that way as "The fastest route between Salt Lake and Yellowstone"- Wyoming really wants people going that way for some reason

It probably is faster than US-89, but much less scenic

it is, indeed, faster and less scenic.  I have done both.

Wyoming probably aggressively promotes it now for the same reason they did then - they thought the corridor would be ideal for a US route.  (Any factual idea, by any chance, on my conjecture that WY-89 was so numbered as Wyoming's proposal to be made into US-89?)

since the alternate route goes through three states, it could be made into something like US-289.  or US-89A, but I do not know if AASHO is approving alternate routes these days.

[Takumi]

I can't think of any like this off the top of my head and TN 840 to I-840 is mainly roadgeek conjecture at this point.

Same goes for VA 895 becoming I-895.

[The High Plains Traveler]

California proposed a much further west route, and had, at one point, signed as bear 95 a segment of road that would be US-395, between what is nowadays CA-14 and US-15 (back then, CA-7 and US-91), through Kramer's Junction and the newly signed (1934) US-466.

That sure didn't last long because I have a 1935 map that shows it as U.S. 395. It would be consistent with CA-7 originally following what became U.S. 6 in 1936 or so and U.S. 395, all the way to Oregon. Makes sense that some original designation was assigned to that route in 1934, kinda like the CA-44 designation originally applied to U.S. 299 by 1935. Lots of changes in that year.

the finalized US-95 (again, 1938 or 1939) was a compromise between California and Arizona's requests for US routes, with the northern half of the route coming out of Vegas doing so in California, before hopping (along with US-60/70) across the Colorado River to Arizona.

The extension of U.S. 95 south of Quartzite in Arizona didn't come about until the 1960s - I'll have to look at some old maps to narrow that range down some. From Quartzite south through Yuma it was AZ-95 till then, and U.S. 95 terminated at Blythe.

[The High Plains Traveler]

also, I seem to recall vaguely a Montana state route 287.

There still is a MT-287, which runs west from U.S. 287. About 1970, U.S. 287 was extended into Montana over MT-287 and MT-287A (the more direct route). Obviously that route had been numbered in anticipation of this extension, as per the topic of this discussion.

[NE2]

We call US 1 down in Broward County "Federal Highway", which isn't so much and oddity as much it probably just pisses off at least a half-dozen members on this forum.

That was named to distinguish the newer federal aid road from the old Dixie Highway.

[cpzilliacus]

any instances of state-to-interstate upgrades like this?  CA-15 may one day qualify, if they ever upgrade it to full interstate standard. 

Much of what is now (admittedly short) I-97 was Md. 3, and a short section of present-day I-97 was once Md. 32.

[NE2]

I think he means routes that kept the number. I-469 was originally SR 469.

[TheStranger]

any instances of state-to-interstate upgrades like this?  CA-15 may one day qualify, if they ever upgrade it to full interstate standard.  

Beyond the mentioned Indiana SR 469...

Part of I-410 was originally Texas SH Loop 410:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_410

I do wonder if Missouri 249 will ultimately become I-249.  That's speculative...

Route 210 in California was submitted twice to become part of I-210 (and rejected in the late 1990s due to lack of route completion, I recall) and probably is slated to eventually go that direction.

Clark County 215 in Las Vegas seems to fit the pattern as well...

Not signed, but future I-710 in Pasadena is officially State Route 710...

[Takumi]

Not signed, but future I-710 in Pasadena is officially State Route 710...

The same is true for Virginia's portion of future I-785 around Danville. It's currently unsigned VA 785, as well as signed US 29 and (partially) 58.

Edited to fix

[agentsteel53]

I think he means routes that kept the number. I-469 was originally SR 469.

that is indeed what I meant.  I believe a section of 210 in California did indeed get officially changed from CA-210 to I-210 recently ... but, the fact is, CalTrans is so sloppy in that area, seemingly choosing to post state or interstate shields at random, that I just cannot tell.

another example I had just remembered: I-215 was once, briefly, CA-215.  there is at least one location (Ramona Expwy westbound at the freeway on-ramps) where a sign has a clearly visible state route marker underneath a patched-on interstate shield.