Televison Station Markets

[PAHighways]

I miss predigital TV as well.

I must be the only person that prefers the ATSC system over the NTSC system.  While I lost two OTA stations (one whose transmitter is relatively close but still get in SD via ClearQAM from Comcast), I gained the ability to see my market's Fox station and what is now the ION station.  I did add another ABC station thanks to a subchannel from the neighboring market's Fox affiliate.  Not to mention, I can feed the digital OTA signals to computers in my network thanks to SiliconDust's HDHomeRun device.

I am in downstate Illinois and in the right weather I Had South Dakota come in once and frequently got Chicago. Anyone else every play with long distance reception?

I do some TV DXing from time-to-time and belong to a group that focuses on VHF/UHF band scanning.  Since the full-power analogs have disappeared, I've done a lot better at receiving long-distance signals, especially from Canada.

[Scott5114]

From Oklahoma City there's not really a lot of other nearby markets close enough to bleed into that market; however, I do remember picking up stations in Ardmore, OK and Sherman/Denison TX at various times. Strangely, I don't remember anything in the Tulsa area showing up...

[Desert Man]

I grew up when cable service was new, had watched L.A. area TV stations and some over the air from Yuma, Az. (KECY 9- CBS on Mountain time) with El Centro, Cal. and Mexicali on the border (in Spanish). The southwest part of Riverside county received San Diego/Tijuana TV stations, while the Palm Springs Market boundary was Banning-Beaumont, KESQ 3 (ABC) but not KMIR 6 (NBC) carried into Hemet-San Jacinto and the Morongo Basin of San Bernardino county also had KESQ 3, as well Blythe-Colorado River valley received Phoenix and some Tucson, Arizona TV stations. The Orange county KOCE and San Bernardino KVCR are Public TV stations known to be on cable (formerly over air) in Palm Springs-Coachella valley.

[golden eagle]

Indiana does this somewhat. Some of the medium sized towns will have one local news affiliate but most of the stations come from a bigger city. Lafayette is a good example. They have a local CBS affiliate WLFI while also getting the Indy CBS affiliate and other networks from Indy.

I have a cousin that lives in Munster (about a mile or two east of the Chicago/Illinois border) and as close to Chicago as Munster is, their cable system carries two stations out of South Bend. I thought that was always rather interesting.

We had a similar situation when I was going to school at Southern Miss in the mid-90s. Hattiesburg has a CBS affiliate (WHLT, though it's a satellite operation of Jackson's WJTV), but the cable system at the time (I hear that has been absorbed by Comcast) carried WKRG from Mobile. My professor mentioned that WKRG was still being carried because of some sort of contract that was agreed to years earlier. WHLT has only been around since 1987 or so. Hattiesburg gets their ABC and Fox stations from Biloxi-Gulfport.

Here's another interesting situation: I have family in Forrest City, AR, and their cable system carries three ABC stations (Jonesboro, Little Rock and Memphis)! They're lined up right next to each other too! They also get ABC and CBS from Memphis and Little Rock. However, they only get the Fox and CW from Memphis. Jonesboro only has one station, the aforementioned ABC station KAIT (known as Region 8).

[huskeroadgeek]

Indiana does this somewhat. Some of the medium sized towns will have one local news affiliate but most of the stations come from a bigger city. Lafayette is a good example. They have a local CBS affiliate WLFI while also getting the Indy CBS affiliate and other networks from Indy.

I have a cousin that lives in Munster (about a mile or two east of the Chicago/Illinois border) and as close to Chicago as Munster is, their cable system carries two stations out of South Bend. I thought that was always rather interesting.

We had a similar situation when I was going to school at Southern Miss in the mid-90s. Hattiesburg has a CBS affiliate (WHLT, though it's a satellite operation of Jackson's WJTV), but the cable system at the time (I hear that has been absorbed by Comcast) carried WKRG from Mobile. My professor mentioned that WKRG was still being carried because of some sort of contract that was agreed to years earlier. WHLT has only been around since 1987 or so. Hattiesburg gets their ABC and Fox stations from Biloxi-Gulfport.

Here's another interesting situation: I have family in Forrest City, AR, and their cable system carries three ABC stations (Jonesboro, Little Rock and Memphis)! They're lined up right next to each other too! They also get ABC and CBS from Memphis and Little Rock. However, they only get the Fox and CW from Memphis. Jonesboro only has one station, the aforementioned ABC station KAIT (known as Region 8).

I have a brother who lived briefly in Wynne, AR(just north of Forrest City). They also received the same 3 ABC stations(KATV from Little Rock, KAIT from Jonesboro, and WPTY from Memphis). I went to college in Searcy, AR and we got both KATV and KAIT.
In Lincoln, we get 2 ABC, CBS and Fox stations on cable because we get both Lincoln and Omaha stations. Lincoln doesn't have its own NBC affiliate, which is why we don't have 2 NBC stations. We also have an interesting situation with satellite systems. Satellite systems only carry local stations from your market(with some exceptions). In Lincoln, that means we only get stations from the Lincoln market and not the Omaha market(except for KXVO, Omaha's CW affiliate). This means we get our NBC from KHAS in Hastings(which is actually the NBC station for the Lincoln market) and not WOWT in Omaha, which is where Lincoln gets its NBC from over-the-air and on cable. We also get two ABC stations on satellite because Lincoln has its own ABC affiliate(KLKN) and there is also an ABC affiliate in Kearney(KHGI) which is also part of the Lincoln market. Lincoln's CBS affilate, KOLN covers the entire market along with satellite station KGIN in Grand Island.

[KEVIN_224]

I live in the Hartford/New Haven TV market. Our market is Connecticut minus Fairfield County, since they're part of the New York City DMA. Despite being about 35 air miles from Springfield, MA, I don't get a hint of their digital TV signals. Their three full-powered analog stations were always crap at this house (NBC 22, ABC 40 and PBS 57). The problem in this market is that the signals come from four different directions: Avon Mountain (CBS 3 and UNI 18), Rattlesnake Mountain (CW 20, PBS 24, NBC 30 and FOX 61), Madmere Mountain (ABC 8 and MY 59) and New London County (ION 26 and PBS 53). My home is at the bottom of a hill in southern Hartford County, which causes a reflection with Avon Mountain. The old analog CBS 3 was rarely perfect and UNI 18 was always unwatchable. I used to get ABC 8 from the New Haven area better than CBS 3.

As for cable, whether analog or digital via a QAM tuner, we only get one each of ABC (8 ), CBS (3), CW (20), FOX (61), ION (26), MY (59), NBC (30) and UNI (18). We get two PBS stations (24 Hartford and 57 Springfield, MA). Telemundo is from a low-power station which was last on channel 50 in the analog days.

[SP Cook]

Somewhat on topic, this link redirects to a story in the Hazard (Ky.) Herald about the local CBS affiliate being unable to be carried on satellite TV.

This is one of the unique deals in the world of OTA TV.  It really isn't in any market.  Its an "extra" station.

TV markets are not determined by the government.  They are determined by the Nielsen company based, strictly on county lines, on what town's local stations people watch most.  The situation on the ground in terms of what can or cannot be actually received is not relevant to the discussion.

So you have WYMT.  As you know, in eastern Kentucky, like most of Appalachia, actually receiving TV on an OTA basis is problematical, if not impossible.  In EKY, some counties are assigned to the Tennessee Tri-Cities, some to Huntington-Charleston and most to Lexington (which was a "UHF Island", which is to say before digital TV, a place where all of the local stations were UHF, UHF having very poor signal strength in mountainous areas). 

So under federal sat laws, you get whichever town's locals your county belongs to.  And no others.  Lexington, Bristol, and Huntington all have a full set.  WYMT is a standalone.   It will neve be a market and never displace the full markets elsewhere (becuase you cannot expect a viewer to only watch CBS, now can you). 

The sad thing is that WYMT actually provides news from the area it serves, while none of the full markets are going to do so.

[hbelkins]

The sad thing is that WYMT actually provides news from the area it serves, while none of the full markets are going to do so.

True. Plus, I get interviewed on the air a lot by them. 

We have a WYMT employee here on the forum, but I will let him ID himself if he wishes.

[broadhurst04]

I can remember living in Caldwell County, NC in the late 70s and receiving WSPA-TV from Spartanburg, SC on our cable system, even though we were living in the Charlotte market.

[Darkchylde]

I miss analog OTA TV. Back when I was younger, I had rigged my parents' TV to pick up the VHF stations from New Orleans (closest), Baton Rouge and Biloxi, MS (and on good days, we could even get signals from Mobile, AL), giving me 3 CBS stations, 3 ABC stations and 2 NBC stations reliably (Baton Rouge's NBC affiliate was on the UHF band.) This came in handy when our ABC affiliate at the time dropped the network's Saturday morning cartoon package (and I needed my Sonic SatAM fix) - I'd just flip the dial from Channel 8 to Channel 2. It was also good for all those years when the Saints couldn't sell out a game - turn the antenna and I had a 50/50 shot of getting Lafayette stations too.

Can't do that with digital - hell, with digital, I can barely pick up even the New Orleans stations.

[goobnav]

Growing up in NE PA, OTA stations were the local affliates, WNEP(ABC), WYOU(CBS) and WBRE(NBC).  If you went north and west of the Wyoming and Lackawanna Valleys you could get a station or 2 out of Binghamton, NY.

Cable on the other hand, we had the above affliates plus WPIX and WOR from NY and WTXF out of Philly.

[Stephane Dumas]

Here a clip showing vintage promos of tv shows printed in newspapers showing CHLT Télé-7 of Sherbrooke circa 1972-73 who beginned as a Radio-Canada/French CBC affiliate in 1957 and switching to French network TVA around 1973-74; back when the local programming was more then news bulletin.

And another one showing various printed promos of what Radio-Canada showed from 1970 to 1974.

One clip showing the 35 years of CBMT/CBC-6 Montreal originally broadcasted in 1989 and re-runned into the mid-1990s.

[hobsini2]

I love going to my grandmother's house in Princeton WI. She gets a wide varirety of choices which is good esp during football season.
She gets WTMJ (NBC) and WISN (ABC) in Milwaukee (80 mi).
WISC (CBS) in Madison (60 mi).
WBAY (ABC), WFRV (CBS), WGBA (NBC), and WLUK (FOX) in Green Bay (65 Mi).
The local PBS i think is WMVS in Milwaukee.

[algorerhythms]

At my mom's place in Cumberland, MD, the cable company carries local stations from Washington, Baltimore, and Pennsylvania. There are, if I remember correctly, 3 CBS stations (WUSA, WJZ, and WTAJ), two NBC stations (WHAG and a station from PA), and two Fox stations, although the cable company was cancelling its contract with WTTG due to a price dispute last I heard, leaving only the PA Fox station.

[KEVIN_224]

Probably WWCP-TV (FOX) channel 8 of Johnstown, PA?

[algorerhythms]

Yeah, that's it.

edit - and the PA NBC station is WJAC.

[formulanone]

As for the markets, I'm smack-dab in the middle of the South Florida/Miami TV market, although only one Treasure Coast/Palm Beach station picks up (Channel 5). I actually pick up less stations (maybe 2-3 on a good day, if I want to bend the mast about for a few minutes) since the conversion to digital. There as also the cost of the box and antenna, minus refund voucher. I received about 4-6 channels with the old rabbit-ears antennae. After a hurricane, or when I couldn't afford cable, that's all you can get.

What a crock...I'm basically forced to subscribe to cable/dish, and buy boxes for every room. Our X10 repeater is inoperative with AT&T Uverse. I watch very little TV as it is, basically, we keep it so my wife and daughter can watch a few hours a week. That said, if F1 racing was available live on the 'net, I'd even pay for it. No such availability exists in America.

[Stephane Dumas]

Also, in Canada, it's now very rare. It's when a local or regional company who own 2 tv stations for a 2 different tv networks. We refer them as "twinstick" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-stick and Riviere-du-Loup had a very rare case of a "triple-stick" with the company Tele Inter-Rives who own CKRT (SRC), CIMT (TVA) and CFTF (V, formely TQS).

[PAHighways]

Down here that situation is referred to as duopolies.  Sinclair, CBS, and NewsCorp are some of the biggest ownership groups that have them in numerous cities, including mine where Sinclair owns WPGH-53 (Fox) and WPMY-22 (My Network) and CBS owns KDKA-2 (CBS) and WPCW-19 (CW).

[huskeroadgeek]

Down here that situation is referred to as duopolies.  Sinclair, CBS, and NewsCorp are some of the biggest ownership groups that have them in numerous cities, including mine where Sinclair owns WPGH-53 (Fox) and WPMY-22 (My Network) and CBS owns KDKA-2 (CBS) and WPCW-19 (CW).

Yeah, I would say the vast majority of CW and My Network TV stations are owned by one of the major network affiliates. That's where most of the duopolies are, but there are a few situations(I know Ft. Wayne, IN is one and I think Duluth, MN is another) where one company owns two major network affiliates in the same market.

[rawmustard]

Yeah, I would say the vast majority of CW and My Network TV stations are owned by one of the major network affiliates. That's where most of the duopolies are, but there are a few situations(I know Ft. Wayne, IN is one and I think Duluth, MN is another) where one company owns two major network affiliates in the same market.

Most of those (CW/MyN) tend to be digital subchannels of the more major affiliate. Over the years, though, LIN Corporation has come to own both ABC (WOTV) and NBC (WOOD-TV) affiliates in the Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek market. There is another ABC affiliate owned by Gannett (WZZM), but that primarily covers the northern half of the market.

[golden eagle]

Here in Jackson, the Fox, My Network and Me TV affiliates are owned by the same company. All the others are "stand-alones" (as in that their owners have no other stations in the market).

[Takumi]

In Richmond, the NBC (WWBT) and Fox (WRLH) stations are both owned by the same company (Jefferson Pilot IIRC).

[ClarkE]

The sad thing is that WYMT actually provides news from the area it serves, while none of the full markets are going to do so.

True. Plus, I get interviewed on the air a lot by them. 

We have a WYMT employee here on the forum, but I will let him ID himself if he wishes.

That would be me! There's a lot of people in the region that do not have access to cable TV and can only get satellite. It's really a shame that they cannot get local news, since we are the only TV station in Eastern Kentucky.


WYMT is technically a satellite station of WKYT in Lexington, and we simulcast their noon, 5, and 5:30 newscasts, but we have a full-fledged newsroom and three bureaus due to our large coverage area, and fully produce our own morning show, 4pm, 6pm, and 11pm newscasts.

We constantly have people asking us when we will get on satellite, and we have to tell them it's not up to us.

[SP Cook]

RANT:

Duopolis are supposed to be regulated by the FCC.  In a regular market (one having at least four commercial TV stations) no one company is supposed to own more than one of the Big Four network affiliates.  In other words a company could own an station from "column A" (Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS) and then station or stations from "column B" (WB, MY, or an independent stations), but not two from "column A".  But, the FCC refuses to enforce this rule.  Sinclair, Gray, J-P lots of companies do this.

Laws should be enforced, or repealed.  Random and uneven enforcement is a gateway to tyrany.

/RANT