Inga Saffron Strikes Again Regarding Getting Rid of I-95 near Penns Landing

[PHLBOS]

Saw this article in last Friday's paper and it made my blood oil.  She's basically mad because the Mayor and his transporation deputy have not stated anything regarding altering I-95 when the road gets a revamp a decade or two down the road.

She's obsessed with reconnecting Philly's waterfront to the rest of the city.

http://www.philly.com/philly/home/20120217_Changing_Skyline__Odd_silence_on_options_for_altering_I-95.html

Note: the article erroneously references a 'yanking' out of I-95 in Providence, RI which is absolute bunk.  The only major road removal project I'm aware of was the I-195 Relocation project that was completed not too long ago.

Hopefully, this proposal will be 'DEAD ON ARRIVAL'.

[cpzilliacus]

Saw this article in last Friday's paper and it made my blood oil.  She's basically mad because the Mayor and his transporation deputy have not stated anything regarding altering I-95 when the road gets a revamp a decade or two down the road.

She's obsessed with reconnecting Philly's waterfront to the rest of the city.

What could be done (though it would not be cheap) would be to underground that section of the Delaware Expressway.   

I don't think PennDOT or USDOT/FHWA are going to agree to remove a section of I-95.

http://www.philly.com/philly/home/20120217_Changing_Skyline__Odd_silence_on_options_for_altering_I-95.html

Note: the article erroneously references a 'yanking' out of I-95 in Providence, RI which is absolute bunk.  The only major road removal project I'm aware of was the I-195 Relocation project that was completed not too long ago.

Hopefully, this proposal will be 'DEAD ON ARRIVAL'.

The anti-auto/anti-highway/anti-mobility industry has been promoting these schemes in various places in the United States, usually pointing to "success stories" like the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway (former I-480, a dead-end freeway in spite of its number) in San Francisco and the cancellation of nearly all unbuilt freeways in the District of Columbia. 

[PHLBOS]

What could be done (though it would not be cheap) would be to underground that section of the Delaware Expressway.

The article briefly mentions such.    

I don't think PennDOT or USDOT/FHWA are going to agree to remove a section of I-95.

Agreed.  Over a decade-and-a-half  ago when Center City District Director Paul Levy suggested such; PennDOT dismissed the notion as 'childish'.

The anti-auto/anti-highway/anti-mobility industry has been promoting these schemes in various places in the United States, usually pointing to "success stories" like the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway (former I-480, a dead-end freeway in spite of its number) in San Francisco and the cancellation of nearly all unbuilt freeways in the District of Columbia.  

IIRC, the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway was triggered by a certain earthquake circa 1989.  BTW, that freeway was originally planned to connect to the Golden Gate Bridge.

And again, the DC example (and even Baltimore's Inner Harbor) involved roads that were never built to begin with; not removing ones that are already there... unless there was a relocation involved (I-195 in Providence & I-93 in Boston via the Big Dig).

[Beltway]

Saw this article in last Friday's paper and it made my blood oil.  She's basically mad because the Mayor and his transporation deputy have not stated anything regarding altering I-95 when the road gets a revamp a decade or two down the road.

She's obsessed with reconnecting Philly's waterfront to the rest of the city.

What could be done (though it would not be cheap) would be to underground that section of the Delaware Expressway.    

They could complete the mid section of the cover that was omitted for cost reasons back when that segment was built.

[DeaconG]

Maybe they should garnish her wages to get it done.

[PHLBOS]

They could complete the mid section of the cover that was omitted for cost reasons back when that segment was built.

That's already discussed in the article although that's not enough to satisfy Ms. Saffron.

[J N Winkler]

She's just an architecture critic for the Philadelphia Inquirer, completely unknown to me until I Googled her twenty seconds ago--why get exercised about what she says?

[PHLBOS]

She's just an architecture critic for the Philadelphia Inquirer, completely unknown to me until I Googled her twenty seconds ago--why get exercised about what she says?

Because there have been others that share similar views and have a little more clout.  Center City District Director Paul Levy being one of them.  She makes a post regarding I-95 one or twice a year.

Steve Anderson gives an account in his phillyroads website:

http://www.phillyroads.com/roads/delaware/

Exerpt:

More than 30 years after I-95 was built through Center City, some remain bitter about the presence of the expressway. One official, Paul Levy, director of the Center City District, went as far to propose demolishing the expressway through Penn's Landing.

If it was just her alone, no big deal; but I am concerned about others with more clout that view her comments as a vindication.

[jemacedo9]

I can't see this ever happening.  Using Columbus Blvd as an alternative (a 6-lane arterial that does NOT have ramps to the Ben Franklin Bridge) is IMO unfeasible. The only other alternative is to use I-76 and I-676, and the interchange between the two is already congested 6AM-11PM most nights.  So either that interchange would get worse, or Columbus Blvd would get clogged, or.......not sure what else there is. 

As stated above, the only freeway removals that were not relocated I think were not through routes. 

PA barely has money to re-build bridges, and planned other upgrades of I-95 keep falling behind...another Big Dig isn't going to happen either.

[cpzilliacus]

PA barely has money to re-build bridges, and planned other upgrades of I-95 keep falling behind...another Big Dig isn't going to happen either.

Most of what I know about Pennsylvania transportation finances has to do with the debacles associated with the (failed) efforts to toll I-80 and other Act 44 matters.

The only way that the Delaware Expressway would get funded for an undergrounding would be if it were to be tolled (and if that happened, I think it reasonable to assume that the unions representing SEPTA hourly workers would demand that they get a "fair share" of the toll revenues).

[Duke87]

Two words: air rights.

You want more developable land? No problem, it already exists.

[PHLBOS]

Most of what I know about Pennsylvania transportation finances has to do with the debacles associated with the (failed) efforts to toll I-80 and other Act 44 matters.

The only way that the Delaware Expressway would get funded for an undergrounding would be if it were to be tolled (and if that happened, I think it reasonable to assume that the unions representing SEPTA hourly workers would demand that they get a "fair share" of the toll revenues).

IIRC, the primary reason why the Toll I-80 part of the Act 44 debacle failed 3 times by the Feds (under both Bush 43 & Obama Administrations) was the fact that the would-be toll money was NOT going to the road itself but rather a 'general transportation' fund; i.e. Robbing Peter to Pay Paul.  If I-95 were to be tolled in this area; the money would have to go the I-95 upgrades and ONLY the I-95 upgrades.

[Beltway]

They could complete the mid section of the cover that was omitted for cost reasons back when that segment was built.

That's already discussed in the article although that's not enough to satisfy Ms. Saffron.

Too bad for her.  That would cover 2/3 mile of depressed I-95, following the original alignment, and would be the most effective way to cover a key section of I-95 in the downtown.

I-95 in Philadelphia carries above 100,000 AADT on every section, so there is no way that any section can be demolished.

[cpzilliacus]

They could complete the mid section of the cover that was omitted for cost reasons back when that segment was built.

That's already discussed in the article although that's not enough to satisfy Ms. Saffron.

Too bad for her.  That would cover 2/3 mile of depressed I-95, following the original alignment, and would be the most effective way to cover a key section of I-95 in the downtown.

Agreed.

I-95 in Philadelphia carries above 100,000 AADT on every section, so there is no way that any section can be demolished.

Persons and groups opposed to highways (and especially urban freeways) don't care how much use a road gets (or is planned to get). To them, all that matters is opposing new highways, and if possible, degrading or removing existing ones.

[qguy]

Two words: air rights. You want more developable land? No problem, it already exists.

This isn't an issue with a need for additional land. No one really wants to build over it; they want to get around it.

Forgive the long post here but as a longtime Philadelphia resident, allow me to explain some of the context. (Duke87: I hasten to add that I'm not knocking your post; it serves as a handy springboard.)

The critics are right in one way: describing the current problem. The highway does cut the city off from its waterfront. You have to see the area from a cross-sectional perspective to really understand that.

Even if I-95 were to be covered along its entire length through the area, it wouldn't really solve the problem. This is because there is an elevation differential between the edge of the current street grid (mostly along Front St.) and the level of Delaware Ave./Columbus Blvd. and the piers. I-95 cuts through at an elevation that is right in the middle of that.

Along the most desired portion, centered around Market St., I-95 was depressed just low enough that there's no way to tunnel under it, but it is still high enough that the level atop a cover is higher than the street grid and much higher than the level of Delaware Ave./Columbus Blvd. and the piers. But the distance from the highway and cover to the waterfront is very short. So there's no good way to walk, drive, or use transit from atop the cover down to the waterfront. It would always need an elaborate way to overcome the elevation change in so short a distance.

So, yes, the presence of I-95 right where it is, at that intermediate level, is not just problemmatic, it's maddening. It's not high enough to go under it, but not really low enough to go over it.

And that doesn't even consider the huge number of truly historic and rare (even here in Phila) original 18th & 19th century buildings which were bulldozed for it. That still rankles many here, even today, even among those like me who like roads. (That really is a side issue, but one not to be underestimated.)

All that being said, however, talk of removing it is beyond "childish." It's naïve in the extreme. I-95 through Philadelphia is not a local freeway of course. It's a regional highway which provides both local and regional access. It's also a major throughway. It's one of the primary ways for vehicles to get from one side of the metropolitan area to the other. Other freeways and tollways in the area simply cannot serve as functional substitutes.

To my knowledge, no other throughway freeway has ever been removed and replaced with an at-grade facility, let alone removed and had it's traffic handled by an existing at-grade facility. Either a throughway has been moved nearby, either down (Boston) or aside (Providence), or the highway was a spur already ending at an at-grade facility. Using these as examples of removal success stories is either unintentionally ignorant or intentionally deceptive.

Removing the waterfront area of I-95 is simple wishful thinking. The same crowd talks in the same manner of windmill farms supplying a majority of the electrical power. Perhaps in the 23rd century with Star Trek technology, but not for the forseeable future.

[DeaconG]

And, of course, when the I-95 interchange with the PA Turnpike gets past Phase 1, you're REALLY going to see that traffic increase.

She, along with her crew, simply need to deal with it.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

And, of course, when the I-95 interchange with the PA Turnpike gets past Phase 1, you're REALLY going to see that traffic increase.

She, along with her crew, simply need to deal with it.

Folks going to abandoned I-295/NJ Turnpike once I-95 is connected to the PA Turnpike? I doubt traffic is going to increase any more through Philly than its already at once that interchange is completed.

[Beltway]

And, of course, when the I-95 interchange with the PA Turnpike gets past Phase 1, you're REALLY going to see that traffic increase.

She, along with her crew, simply need to deal with it.

Folks going to abandoned I-295/NJ Turnpike once I-95 is connected to the PA Turnpike? I doubt traffic is going to increase any more through Philly than its already at once that interchange is completed.

Probably not, but the completed link will certainly increase the regional and national importance of I-95 in Philadelphia.

[hbelkins]

Folks going to abandoned I-295/NJ Turnpike once I-95 is connected to the PA Turnpike? I doubt traffic is going to increase any more through Philly than its already at once that interchange is completed.

I'd imagine there would be quite a few people who'd forsake the Del Mem Br, especially during periods of heavy traffic.

[jwolfer]

And, of course, when the I-95 interchange with the PA Turnpike gets past Phase 1, you're REALLY going to see that traffic increase.

She, along with her crew, simply need to deal with it.

Folks going to abandoned I-295/NJ Turnpike once I-95 is connected to the PA Turnpike? I doubt traffic is going to increase any more through Philly than its already at once that interchange is completed.

Probably not, but the completed link will certainly increase the regional and national importance of I-95 in Philadelphia.

Most non-road geeks think that the NJTP is I-95 anyway.  They will follow what their GPS says blindly, however there are some that wouls stay with the 95 number.  Going SB it has never been real obvious that 95 went away from the NJTP.  All the sudden the cardinal direction just says TO instead of NORTH or SOUTH

[NJRoadfan]

Most non-road geeks think that the NJTP is I-95 anyway.  They will follow what their GPS says blindly, however there are some that wouls stay with the 95 number.  Going SB it has never been real obvious that 95 went away from the NJTP.  All the sudden the cardinal direction just says TO instead of NORTH or SOUTH

All northbound traffic bound for NYC/NNJ is going to stick to the Turnpike/I-295. Southbound traffic will be more likely to follow I-95 when its done. The Del Mem Br may be backed up a few days a year, but its still better then I-95 through Philly on most days.

[Beltway]

Probably not, but the completed link will certainly increase the regional and national importance of I-95 in Philadelphia.

Most non-road geeks think that the NJTP is I-95 anyway.  They will follow what their GPS says blindly, however there are some that wouls stay with the 95 number.  Going SB it has never been real obvious that 95 went away from the NJTP.  All the sudden the cardinal direction just says TO instead of NORTH or SOUTH

I said "increase the regional and national importance of I-95 in Philadelphia."  It certainly will increase in importance when there is a continuous I-95 northward from Philadelphia into New Jersey and toward New York City and beyond.

[MrDisco99]

Mainly there will be increased traffic from people going between the Delaware valley (Wilmington to Trenton) and points north.  Currently there is no freeway link, so opening one will get people off US-1, US-130 and the like, which I think is the point.

[sammack]

Mainly there will be increased traffic from people going between the Delaware valley (Wilmington to Trenton) and points north.  Currently there is no freeway link, so opening one will get people off US-1, US-130 and the like, which I think is the point.

I doubt it.  Additional traffic thru Centre City Philly on I-95. very unlikely
Further you do realize I-95 thru Bucks Co, PA, north of the PA Tpk is unlikely to every be widened.

Also the toll on the new Scudders Falls Br will probably be the same or higher then the Del Mem Br

Most people coming from the south are going to keep doing what they have been doing.  Over the Del Mem Br and up either the NJ Tpk or I-295 depending on the time of day

The only people likely to use the new ic are locals from NE Phila and Bucks Co.  It will be a much better way for them to get to the NJTP. US 130, and generally across the Del R

The best thing about its const is the reconst of the PA Tpk east of US 1 and the possibility of a new
Del R X-ing some where in the future

Here is some history you might be interested in
http://www.phillyroads.com/roads/I-895_NJ/

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Mainly there will be increased traffic from people going between the Delaware valley (Wilmington to Trenton) and points north.  Currently there is no freeway link, so opening one will get people off US-1, US-130 and the like, which I think is the point.

Wouldn't Philadelphia get the same effect if New Jersey were to resign I-195 (between the NJTpk and I-295) and I-295 north as I-95?