What kind of car do you drive?

[agentsteel53]

This. I find when I'm on the highway, I rarely use the brake to control my speed, just the accelerate and decelerate buttons. Makes it much easier to decelerate two or three miles per hour to keep my distance from a car and accelerating back to my previous speed afterward is much more efficient.

I actually do the opposite.  I tap the brakes to disengage cruise control, and use accelerator and brake/coasting to set a new desire speed. 

I would be perfectly happy with a one-button cruise control ("lock speed at current")... my car has something like five (!) buttons for it, most of which I never use.  Just "on" when turning on the ignition - force of habit, just after disengaging the e-brake - and "set" to lock in when I want it engaged.

[agentsteel53]

Funny you mentioned cruise control and a manual transmission.  Those were two musts in my book when I was car shopping.  I like cruise control for long trips.  It allows me to not worry about maintaining speed while I look for cool license plates and signs.  The manual transmission I wanted for a more hands on driving experience, however, I'll be the first to admit they suck in stop and go traffic. 

I rented a car with manual transmission and cruise control in Europe, and several times after preparing to get off the highway, or stop at a toll booth, I nearly stalled the car because I found myself confusing my pattern of "take car out of gear" with "disengage cruise control".  I had figured I had to do precisely one thing to get the car to coast to a stop... nope, when cruise control was set, I had to do two things, so invariably I forgot one and the car would start lugging and that's when I'd remember "oh! still in gear!"

(my manual-transmission driving style tends to involve a lot of taking the car out of gear when preparing to stop - it adds fuel efficiency at the cost of brake pad wear, as I'm not using engine braking.  for a rental car, this is a very good trade-off.)

[signalman]

Hmm..so depressing the clutch and taking the car out of gear didn't disengage cruise control?  I usually shut off cruise just before I enter the deceleration area of a highway exit and coast down in top gear to 50 or so, then in neutral with using little (or none on ramps I use frequently) brakes.  Even if I do forget to shut the cruise off, it disengages when the clutch is depressed. (Perhaps a US-spec thing?)

[agentsteel53]

Hmm..so depressing the clutch and taking the car out of gear didn't disengage cruise control?  I usually shut off cruise just before I enter the deceleration area of a highway exit and coast down in top gear to 50 or so, then in neutral with using little (or none on ramps I use frequently) brakes.  Even if I do forget to shut the cruise off, it disengages when the clutch is depressed. (Perhaps a US-spec thing?)

no, my explanation was unclear.  the one thing I did do was tap the brake to disengage cruise control... keeping the car in gear.  about 30mph slower is when I realized that there was a problem.  (this was more pronounced at the beginning of the trip, when I was unfamiliar with how the car decelerated when it was in gear vs. out of gear)

I never found out experimentally if tapping the clutch disengaged the cruise control.  my guess would be "probably", because with the clutch depressed, a naive cruise control algorithm would just rev the engine into oblivion.

[agentsteel53]

another clutch question... I drove a friend's stick-shift car a few days ago, and to turn on the ignition, I had to depress both brake and clutch.  it was a mid-90s Mazda pickup.  I remember my 1989 Escort had no such interlock (just brake, if I recall correctly), and rental cars in Europe had no such interlock either.  (I remember this well, as when JeffR and I switched drivers, I would immediately and consistently observe his tendency to put the car in gear when parking it!)

is clutch-ignition interlock a US-only safety feature introduced in the 90s or so?

[signalman]

is clutch-ignition interlock a US-only safety feature introduced in the 90s or so?

I'm guessing it started with Asian makes.  My first car was a 1990 Toyota Camry and the clutch had to be depressed to start it.  My second car, a 1994 VW Jetta had no such switch at the bottom of the clutch. (I'm assuming by now they do)

[kphoger]

My experience is with Toyota:
1985 Corolla
1987 Corolla
1988 Camry
1995 Corolla
1999 Camry

In all four of these stickshift cars my family has owned, it was required to depress the clutch.
In other stickshift cars I've driven, I never even thought to try starting without depressing the clutch, as that's not how I was taught to drive.

[Takumi]

My dad's '94 Ford Ranger is like that as well.

[agentsteel53]

I never even thought to try starting without depressing the clutch, as that's not how I was taught to drive.

I was never taught to do that.  in fact, I was taught to park with the car out of gear, hand brake engaged, unless on exceptionally non-level ground, in which case push it into reverse gear (as that had the lowest gear ratio), hand brake engaged, tire against a curb if possible.  

generally speaking, when I start a stick-shift car, I put foot on the brake, wiggle the stick to confirm that it is out of gear (and, if in gear, take it out!), start the ignition, disengage the hand brake, and now I am basically idling as though stopped at a traffic light, so I can worry about the exact minutiae of this particular clutch-and-gas combination.

so, for me, having to push the clutch before starting in definitely breaks my flow!

[formulanone]

another clutch question... I drove a friend's stick-shift car a few days ago, and to turn on the ignition, I had to depress both brake and clutch.  it was a mid-90s Mazda pickup.  I remember my 1989 Escort had no such interlock (just brake, if I recall correctly), and rental cars in Europe had no such interlock either.  (I remember this well, as when JeffR and I switched drivers, I would immediately and consistently observe his tendency to put the car in gear when parking it!)

is clutch-ignition interlock a US-only safety feature introduced in the 90s or so?

It started in the US around 1990; Chrysler got it some hot legal water when kids left in cars managed to move the lever, and make the car roll from a rest, so I've heard.

It's not in Europe at all, so the gearheads over the pond tell me.

[Stratuscaster]

Shift-Interlock - a NHTSA requirement on all cars. Recall that it was only maybe a decade or two ago where they made it so you HAD to press the brake to shift out of park on an automatic-equipped vehicle.

Plenty of other rules and regs for the US that don't apply to Europe or elsewhere.

Then again, some countries require that rear red fog light that's not required here in the US.

[agentsteel53]

It started in the US around 1990; Chrysler got it some hot legal water when kids left in cars managed to move the lever, and make the car roll from a rest, so I've heard.

wait, aren't those entirely different issues?

1) clutch pushed in inadvertently causes car to roll because hand brake wasn't set

2) require clutch to be pushed in to start ignition

[agentsteel53]

also, I appear to call it a "hand brake", even as in my current car the parking brake is engaged with one's foot.  shows that I learned to drive growing up in Hungary, where the literal translation is "hand brake", as opposed to "emergency brake", "e-brake", or "parking brake".

[formulanone]

No, you're right, I was thinking of automatic transmission interlocks. But sometime around 1990 or so, the clutch-engagement-to-start interlock became mandatory.

The "other brake" has many terms world-wide. I think it's because some cars have it in the center console via a hand lever (100+ years ago, throttle and brakes were indeed lever activated), while many cars have a foot-operated pedal. Usually, performance cars that are available with a clutch have a hand-brake; I'm not aware of any "four pedal" cars.

Some of the luxury automakers have gone with a parking brake switch next to the gear selector. Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz spring to mind on some of their classy models.

[agentsteel53]

I'm not aware of any "four pedal" cars.

I don't think that would be particularly ergonomical, for those who use the hand brake to assist in starting up a hill. 

[bugo]

No, you're right, I was thinking of automatic transmission interlocks. But sometime around 1990 or so, the clutch-engagement-to-start interlock became mandatory.

The "other brake" has many terms world-wide. I think it's because some cars have it in the center console via a hand lever (100+ years ago, throttle and brakes were indeed lever activated), while many cars have a foot-operated pedal. Usually, performance cars that are available with a clutch have a hand-brake; I'm not aware of any "four pedal" cars.

Some of the luxury automakers have gone with a parking brake switch next to the gear selector. Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz spring to mind on some of their classy models.

My '62 Ford Galaxie 500 has 4 pedals.

[vtk]

In cars where the clutch must be depressed to start the engine, is this true regardless of whether the transmission is in neutral?

[agentsteel53]

My '62 Ford Galaxie 500 has 4 pedals.

is there a hand release for the emergency/hand/parking brake?

[formulanone]

In cars where the clutch must be depressed to start the engine, is this true regardless of whether the transmission is in neutral?

It can be started in any gear, or neutral.

Some people leave it in a gear, and some keep the lever in neutral. Either way, you use the parking brake.

Personally, I'm a "neutral-parker", because I live in a mostly flat state. If parking on a hill, leaving it in gear is also highly recommended.

[bugo]

My '62 Ford Galaxie 500 has 4 pedals.

is there a hand release for the emergency/hand/parking brake?

It's the knob on the dash on the far left.  The knob is identical to the other knobs on the dash.

This car can be started with the clutch disengaged.  It is useful when pulling the car when the engine has died.



Here's a picture of the dash of my other '62.  This one is an automatic.

[signalman]

In cars where the clutch must be depressed to start the engine, is this true regardless of whether the transmission is in neutral?

Yes.  There is a switch under the clutch pedal that must be pressed in order to complete the ignition circuit. 

[formulanone]

My '62 Ford Galaxie 500 has 4 pedals.

is there a hand release for the emergency/hand/parking brake?

I discovered that a lot of pickups have this setup. And lots of Euro-spec Mercedes-Benzes and box trucks. Some 1950-60s Detroit iron have this setup too.

[corco]

Some of the luxury automakers have gone with a parking brake switch next to the gear selector. Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz spring to mind on some of their classy models.

I worked as a valet for a good while when I first moved to Tucson (and still do occasionally) and this was one of the best things about getting into a newer manual transmission luxury car was  trying to find the damn parking brake release- especially since I worked almost exclusively at night.

[Dr Frankenstein]

Regarding manual in traffic... I've been frequently driving through Montreal's traffic since 2009, and by now I don't even realize I'm shifting and pressing the clutch pedal, even in stop-n-go traffic.

[agentsteel53]

Regarding manual in traffic... I've been frequently driving through Montreal's traffic since 2009, and by now I don't even realize I'm shifting and pressing the clutch pedal, even in stop-n-go traffic.

I put about 40K on my '89 Escort in the nine months I owned it, and after about two months I barely registered that I was driving manual... the toughest city I ever drove in was - nope, not San Francisco! - it was Quebec City, with its major boulevards located on 10-11-12% hills!  That car had 59 horsepower, so it definitely took effort to not roll back more than an inch or two while powering it up those hills.