Interstate 684

[hbelkins]

If one is attempting to clinch I-684, one has only one choice if traveling west on I-287. One takes the exit for I-684 because there is no access from the ramp from I-287 to the Hutchinson River Parkway to I-684.

But if one is traveling south on I-684 and approaching I-287, there are two choices. One can take the ramp to I-287 or one can continue on to the Hutch and then access I-287 from that interchanges.

Which part is officially I-684, the spur to I-287 or the spur to the Hutchinson River Parkway?

[NE2]

Note that access at the Hutch is via frontage roads (and there is no access from I-684 to I-287 west via the Hutch).
The FHWA takes I-684 along the direct ramps: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/nhs/maps/ny/westchester_ny.pdf
The spur to the Hutch is NY 984J, though NYSDOT labels both as I-684 on at least one map: http://www.nysgis.state.ny.us/gisdata/quads/drg24/ff49.htm
In addition, the Hutch is signed as exit 1 on I-684 southbound.

[Duke87]

Note that the interchange between 287 (via Westchester Ave) and the Hutch is a cloverleaf. 287 west to 984J north and 984J south to 287 west are not possible directly, but can be done the long way around by taking three loops.

Nonetheless, attempting to make movements between 684 and 287 this way is not recommended because it's a hell of a weave which no one was ever intended to go through.
And it's unnecessary because the other branch is actually 684, anyway.

Although, an easter egg that a more exploratory and adventerous traveler may wish to pursue: northbound on the branch from the hutch, right before the overpass at the merge onto 684 proper, is a mile marker for mile 1 on 984J.... with a nice little interstate 984J shield on it. A similar marker exists southbound at the end of the guardrail under the overpass, but that one would probably be more difficult to pull over and get a picture of. (I have attempted neither... something I need to get around to sometime)

[Mergingtraffic]

kinda off topic here but what I find annoying about I-684 is it's 6 lanes all the way except for a short portion at the Saw Mill Pkwy.

[Alps]

Well, you could stay in the right lane through that section and use the C/D lanes on the outside, so there are still technically three through lanes. The traffic mix justifies the split.

[Duke87]

kinda off topic here but what I find annoying about I-684 is it's 6 lanes all the way except for a short portion at the Saw Mill Pkwy.

If you want to pick nits, it drops down to four lanes right before either end as well: between exit 1 and 287, and between 84 and exit 10.

Actually, H.B., make sure you take note of this: I-684 doesn't end at I-84, it ends just beyond at exit 10. If you just get off at 84 you will not quite clinch it.

[NE2]

Isn't it NY 981B north of I-84?

[Roadgeek Adam]

Isn't it NY 981B north of I-84?

Yep.

[Duke87]

CHM and OSM are both wrong, then. As is the "END 684" shield at exit 10.

[NE2]

Well if it's signed as I-684 to exit 10, OSM is correct, since it covers signage rather than official designations (at least if the former is internally consistent).

[Jim]

My reading of the NYSDOT docs I've used when plotting New York routes in CHM show that it's definitely NY 981B and may also officially be I-684 beyond I-84.  The touring routes document lists the terminus of I-684 as I-84.  But the Traffic Data Report continues I-684 to the Exit 10 interchange (as shown in CHM and OSM).  That same report lists NY 981B as a 0.39 mile connector between I-684 and NY 22.

[Duke87]

Hmm... FHWA lists the length of I-684 as 27.06 miles. NYSDOT's log lists it as 28.46 miles.

Weird.

[NE2]

The most egregious discrepancy in lengths is on I-695 in Maryland. Between I-95 (north) and I-97, it was never added to the Interstate system, and is officially MD 695.

[PHLBOS]

Used 684 many times over the past 21 years.  One gripe is that the advance signage for the 684 exit along either 84 WEST or 287 is TOO SHORT; only 1/2 mile.  That's rather odd for an exit for a 6-lane Interstate not to get sufficient notice while approaching it along another highway.  Ironically, advance signage for both 84 and 287 aloing 684 starts at 2 miles.

While I'm used to it; somebody unfamiliar with the area could easily miss the exit if they're traveling along 84 or 287.

Another gripe is along the approach lane striping to the 684 exit from 287 eastbound.  The distance between the merge lane from the previous exit to the 684 exit is very short.  IMHO, the short-distance shoulder should restriped as an entrance/exit lane (making 287 east 4 continuous lanes between ramps).

[hbelkins]

Used 684 many times over the past 21 years.  One gripe is that the advance signage for the 684 exit along either 84 or 287 is TOO SHORT; only 1/2 mile.

Huh?

On I-84 eastbound...

[vdeane]

Used 684 many times over the past 21 years.  One gripe is that the advance signage for the 684 exit along either 84 or 287 is TOO SHORT; only 1/2 mile.  That's rather odd for an exit for a 6-lane Interstate not to get sufficient notice while approaching it along another highway.  Ironically, advance signage for both 84 and 287 aloing 684 starts at 2 miles.

While I'm used to it; somebody unfamiliar with the area could easily miss the exit if they're traveling along 84 or 287.

Another gripe is along the approach lane striping to the 684 exit from 287 eastbound.  The distance between the merge lane from the previous exit to the 684 exit is very short.  IMHO, the short-distance shoulder should restriped as an entrance/exit lane (making 287 east 4 continuous lanes between ramps).

1/2 mile is the standard distance to sign exists in NY in urban and suburban areas, regardless of what the exit is for (though termini get 1 mile), though numerous exceptions exist (this is NY, after all).  I've seen major connections get as low as 1/4 mile depending on the area.

The 2 mile advance sign (and a 5 mile one on I-87 south for I-287 at exit 15) are oddities; NY almost never posts exits with more than a mile advance signage (exception: termini and unnumbered exits).

[PHLBOS]

Used 684 many times over the past 21 years.  One gripe is that the advance signage for the 684 exit along either 84 or 287 is TOO SHORT; only 1/2 mile.

On I-84 eastbound...

Since my trips through the I-84/684 interchange over the years only involved coming to/from the eastern end (to/from CT), which are likely done by the majority of travelers through that area; it is very easy to overlook those eastbound approach signs.  My bad, though my original point still stands with regards to advance signage for I-684 from I-84 WEST and I-287 EAST.  Could someone confirm regarding advance 684 exit signage from I-287 West?

1/2 mile is the standard distance to sign exists in NY in urban and suburban areas, regardless of what the exit is for (though termini get 1 mile), though numerous exceptions exist (this is NY, after all).  I've seen major connections get as low as 1/4 mile depending on the area.

The 2 mile advance sign (and a 5 mile one on I-87 south for I-287 at exit 15) are oddities; NY almost never posts exits with more than a mile advance signage (exception: termini and unnumbered exits).

Really.  If that's the case, I am surprised that MUTCD hasn't gotten on NYDOT's a** over that.  While a 2-mile advance (that 5-mile advance example is the other extreme IMHO, but I guess it was placed to inform through-NJ traffic in mind) may be an oddity; a 1-mile advance sign (which is SOP nearly everywhere else) for 684 from BOTH 84 West and 287 EAST shouldn't be too much to ask.

[PurdueBill]

On I-84 eastbound...

Amazing how a "normal" fonted NY 22 shield can look so wrong on a BGS.  Without the wide digits, that NY 22 shield looks totally wrong!

(Funny how US 6 and US 202 don't appear on the overheads that follow.  Why not include them on the NY 22 advance?  Or alternatively, why include them on the 2-mile advance if they don't show up on the next assembly where someone unfamiliar with the setup might need the information to decide what exit to take to get to the US routes?)

[Quillz]

That's one bad sign:

'70-spec US-6 shield next to a '61 spec stretched US-202 shield, next to a wide NY-22 shield that is supposed to be using Series F. At least the Interstate shield looks somewhat decent.

[deathtopumpkins]

Since my trips through the I-84/684 interchange over the years only involved coming to/from the eastern end (to/from CT), which are likely done by the majority of travelers through that area;

287 WB approaching 684 only has a 1/2 mile advance, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on your assumption about the prevailing travel direction. While I'm not bothering to pull up actual traffic counts from NYSDOT/NYSTA/whoever maintains it now, based on the ramp configurations and my own previous travels through the area (which are numerous since I used to live down south and frequently visited family in northern CT) I would assume that the majority of traffic continues down towards NYC on the Hutch after passing 287, and that most exiting traffic does 287 EB -> 684 NB -> 84 EB and 84 WB -> 684 SB -> 287 WB. For example WB 84 to SB 684 has a flyover, whereas NB 684 to WB 84 has a tight loop ramp.

[vdeane]

Really.  If that's the case, I am surprised that MUTCD hasn't gotten on NYDOT's a** over that.  While a 2-mile advance (that 5-mile advance example is the other extreme IMHO, but I guess it was placed to inform through-NJ traffic in mind) may be an oddity; a 1-mile advance sign (which is SOP nearly everywhere else) for 684 from BOTH 84 West and 287 EAST shouldn't be too much to ask.

The entirety of I-287 is maintained by NYSTA.

[PHLBOS]

Since my trips through the I-84/684 interchange over the years only involved coming to/from the eastern end (to/from CT), which are likely done by the majority of travelers through that area;

287 WB approaching 684 only has a 1/2 mile advance, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on your assumption about the prevailing travel direction. While I'm not bothering to pull up actual traffic counts from NYSDOT/NYSTA/whoever maintains it now, based on the ramp configurations and my own previous travels through the area (which are numerous since I used to live down south and frequently visited family in northern CT) I would assume that the majority of traffic continues down towards NYC on the Hutch after passing 287, and that most exiting traffic does 287 EB -> 684 NB -> 84 EB and 84 WB -> 684 SB -> 287 WB. For example WB 84 to SB 684 has a flyover, whereas NB 684 to WB 84 has a tight loop ramp.

3 things:

1.  Traffic-wise, I was only referring to the I-84/684 interchange area per say and not the I-287/684/Hutchinson Pkwy/Westchester Ave interchange and was referring with regards to through-traffic beyond NYC as well as truck traffic (which is NOT allowed to use the Hutchinson Pkwy IIRC).

2.  From your post "that most exiting traffic does 287 EB -> 684 NB -> 84 EB and 84 WB -> 684 SB -> 287 WB."  Outside of 684 NB-> 84 EB piece, aren't we saying the same thing regarding everything else?  You're actually agreeing/supporting my earlier post.

3.  As far as the ramp from 684 N to 84 E is concerned (Exit 9E); that ramp design was likely design oversight in terms of actual traffic counts.  Outside of the flyover ramp to 684 S from 84 W; the interchange was designed essentially as a 'cookie-cutter' cloverleaf/flyover 4-way type as opposed directional 3-way expressway with an added connector (to US 6/202 & NY 22).

The entirety of I-287 is maintained by NYSTA.

While that's fine and dandy for I-287; that doesn't explain I-84 (particularly westbound).  Yes, I'm aware of the short-lived period when at least the eastern-NY stretch of 84 was briefly maintained by NYSTA; but the 1/2 mile advance signage for I-684 issue from westbound I-84 not only predated that temporary transfer of maintenance responsibilities, it has also outlasted it.

The only I-684 interchange signage changes from westbound 84 I know of within the last 21 years was when all the overhead diagrametric signs were replaced with 2 identical ground-mounted signs along each side of 84 west and the replacement of the actual exit sign bridge w the exit and pull-through sign (for 84 west) with a single cantilever sign structure for only the exit.  The sign panels at the ramp split were also replaced as well.

However, despite all the above-changes 84 westbounders STILL only get a 1/2 advance notice for I-684.

[vdeane]

Both NYSDOT and NYSTA do advance signage similarly, and it's not like NYSDOT would re-sign I-84 just because it's no longer a NYSTA road; it would cost too much and there's no point.  Both NYSDOT and NYSTA abhor signing an exit until the gore point of the previous exist at a minimum so this leads to some really short leads with signage.

[Michael]

Although, an easter egg that a more exploratory and adventerous traveler may wish to pursue: northbound on the branch from the hutch, right before the overpass at the merge onto 684 proper, is a mile marker for mile 1 on 984J.... with a nice little interstate 984J shield on it. A similar marker exists southbound at the end of the guardrail under the overpass, but that one would probably be more difficult to pull over and get a picture of. (I have attempted neither... something I need to get around to sometime)

A quick Google search lead me to this picture from Upstate NY Roads:


P.S.: What's CHM?  I know it's not a Compiled HTML Help file.

[PurdueBill]

Did they pick 984J as the reference route number because of association with I-84's 3DI 684?  I know that the first two digits were given, since all the reference routes begin with 9 and Westchester is in Region 8, but being 984J and not something like 982T or something without an apparent relationship to 84 suggests that the ending in -84 was deliberate.  If so, then no wonder the mistaken I-shield would show up eventually.