PA Turnpike widening

[MrDisco99]

Looks like there's a few projects in the works now to widen various parts of the Turnpike, some of which extend previous widening projects.

I know in Ohio they planned to widen specifically the stretch from Toledo to Youngstown and are now almost done.  Are these Pennsylvania plans part of some similar master plan to rebuild and widen the whole thing to 6 lanes, or certain parts of it?  Just wondering if we know what the current end goal looks like.

[cpzilliacus]

Looks like there's a few projects in the works now to widen various parts of the Turnpike, some of which extend previous widening projects.

I know in Ohio they planned to widen specifically the stretch from Toledo to Youngstown and are now almost done.  Are these Pennsylvania plans part of some similar master plan to rebuild and widen the whole thing to 6 lanes, or certain parts of it?  Just wondering if we know what the current end goal looks like.

I cannot answer your question, but it annoys me to no end that the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's much praised (mostly by itself) projects to "totally reconstruct" the Turnpike East-West mainline has (for the most part) not included widening (unlike the Ohio Turnpike's "third lane" projects). 

There are some places on the East-West Mainline where climbing lanes have been added, and both directions of the road east of the Allegheny Tunnel are on alignments that are mostly new and relatively straight (instead of the twisty and winding route taken by the original Turnpike). 

[Mr_Northside]

They've been doing the "total reconstruction" since the late 90's.... but at some point (Maybe around 2007 or so?) after the first projects were done they seem to have decided to go with 6 lanes when they do such reconstruction.
It's a shame they didn't make that decision from the get-go, as the early-rebuilt sections will likely stay 4-lane (with some truck climbing lanes) for decades now.

[MrDisco99]

So do we know how much of the rebuild is done, or how much is left?

[cpzilliacus]

They've been doing the "total reconstruction" since the late 90's.... but at some point (Maybe around 2007 or so?) after the first projects were done they seem to have decided to go with 6 lanes when they do such reconstruction.

I seem to recall reading that the N.E. Extension (I-476) was to be widened from 4 to 6 lanes as part of a "total reconstruction," at least for some miles north of its interchange with I-276.

It's a shame they didn't make that decision from the get-go, as the early-rebuilt sections will likely stay 4-lane (with some truck climbing lanes) for decades now.

Agreed.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Near Pittsburgh, 6 laning has been done at MP0 (gateway)to MP10 (between I-376 and PA 18), Widening is in progress from the Warrendale barrier to around PA8, it is complete right around PA8, work has just commenced between PA 8 and PA 28, the Allegheny bridge and long eastern approach are widened as well as US 30 to New Stanton.  Reconstruction and widening of the Beaver River Bridge is just coming over the horizon

[MrDisco99]

So it looks like plans are in line to widen the whole stretch from Gateway to New Stanton at least?

Is it safe to assume New Stanton to Blue Mountain will stay 4 lanes, what with the tunnels and all?  I know they've already started working on widening around Carlisle, and I guess we'll see that done at least through the Harrisburg area, if not all the way to Philly.

[SteveG1988]

Drove on 276 yesterday, not by choice. 76 was jammed from 202 to 476 and US1. cheaper in terms of fuel to take the turnpike.

Reconstruction is coming along nicely, the four lane sections have a nice repaved lane on them before US13. Still narrow, but it is at least smoother. No real changes near I-95 and US1 other than the new slip ramp.

[PHLBOS]

I seem to recall reading that the N.E. Extension (I-476) was to be widened from 4 to 6 lanes as part of a "total reconstruction," at least for some miles north of its interchange with I-276.

My understanding is that widening will only go as far north as the Landale interchange (Exit 31/PA 63).  IMHO, it should be widened to 6 lanes all the way up to the Lehigh Valley interchange (Exit 56/US 22); especially since it's the only continuous expressway linking the Delaware & Lehigh Valleys.

Drove on 276 yesterday, not by choice. 76 was jammed from 202 to 476 and US1. cheaper in terms of fuel to take the turnpike.

Reconstruction is coming along nicely, the four lane sections have a nice repaved lane on them before US13. Still narrow, but it is at least smoother. No real changes near I-95 and US1 other than the new slip ramp.

Cheaper in fuel but not in tolls.  The PA Turnpike's starting to become a very expensive road to use... even more so for non-EZ Pass users.

I'm assuming that you're referring to the stretch between US 1 and US 13 as the 4-lane section.  The PTC's likely saving the widening of that stretch until construction of the I-95 interchange goes in full swing.  The slip ramp you're referring to is the PA 132/Street Road connection to/from I-276 East.  I believe that's been open for a while.

[qguy]

I seem to recall reading that the N.E. Extension (I-476) was to be widened from 4 to 6 lanes as part of a "total reconstruction," at least for some miles north of its interchange with I-276.

My understanding is that widening will only go as far north as the Landale interchange (Exit 31/PA 63).  IMHO, it should be widened to 6 lanes all the way up to the Lehigh Valley interchange (Exit 56/US 22); especially since it's the only continuous expressway linking the Delaware & Lehigh Valleys.

Phase 1 of the project to widen the NE Extension to six lanes from the E-W main line to the Landsdale interchange is underway. It began in early 2011 and is project to conclude in late 2013 (three construction seasons). Phase 2 (roughly the northern half) is scheduled to go to construction in early 2014 and will probably go three seasons as well. That would take it to late 2016.

Widening between the Lansdale and Quakertown interchanges is currently in design, with the lower half projected to move to construction in 2017. There is no projection at this time for when the upper half might move to construction.

The PTC has longer-term plans to widen the NE Extension to six lanes to US 22/I-78. It is definitely needed. I'm not aware of any plans for widening north of there. Not saying there aren't any; just not aware of them. Someone is always welcome to contradict me.

These widenings are all full-depth reconstructions.

The PTC's likely saving the widening of that stretch [between US 1 and US 13] until construction of the I-95 interchange goes in full swing.

The E-W mainline of the PA Turnpike (I-276) is scheduled to be widened from 4 to 6 lanes from the Bensalem interchange (US 1) to the barrier toll plaza of the Delaware River Bridge as part of the I-95 interchange project. The first section to be widened will be that from the point of crossing to the river. It's projected to begin constuction in 2013 and finish in 2016.

The slip ramp you're referring to is the PA 132/Street Road connection to/from I-276 East.  I believe that's been open for a while.

That slip ramp was opened in November 2010.

[cpzilliacus]

I seem to recall reading that the N.E. Extension (I-476) was to be widened from 4 to 6 lanes as part of a "total reconstruction," at least for some miles north of its interchange with I-276.

My understanding is that widening will only go as far north as the Landale interchange (Exit 31/PA 63).  IMHO, it should be widened to 6 lanes all the way up to the Lehigh Valley interchange (Exit 56/US 22); especially since it's the only continuous expressway linking the Delaware & Lehigh Valleys.

The Northeast Extension is not a part of the Pennsylvania Turnpike system that I frequently drive.  I've only driven its entire length once or twice - though your point about it being the only continuous limited-access highway north of Philadelphia is correct.

The PTC wanting to limit the widening to a relatively short section of the Northeast Extension (as best as I can tell, it's about 10 or 11 miles) seems short-sighted.  Total distance from the I-276/I-476 interchange to the "semi-breezewood" interchange at U.S. 22 at Allentown is 37 or 38 miles.  And unlike so much of the landscape traversed by the Pennsylvania Turnpike, it's relatively flat land along southern part of the N.E. Extension. 

[vdeane]

Well, it's been mentioned that it's in the long term plan, and since this is the PTC, that means that it will happen just in time for Kirk to take command of the Enterprise. 

[Mr_Northside]

Is it safe to assume New Stanton to Blue Mountain will stay 4 lanes, what with the tunnels and all?

While I personally don't know for sure, I think there will be some 6-lane sections there too.  Eventually they'll have to rebuild in between the Somerset / Westmoreland Co. line & the Somerset interchange, and from the base of the Allegheny Mountain past Bedford toward Breezewood. 
They were doing some overpass replacement in those areas last time I was thru there, and they appear to be building them to allow for 6 lanes. 

[qguy]

Well, it's been mentioned that it's in the long term plan, and since this is the PTC, that means that it will happen just in time for Kirk to take command of the Enterprise. 

Yup. You see how long it's gonna take them just to get to Quakertown.

[PAHighways]

Are these Pennsylvania plans part of some similar master plan to rebuild and widen the whole thing to 6 lanes, or certain parts of it?

It is the PTC's master plan, originally conceived to rebuild the original 160 miles and was later extended across the entire original Turnpike.  The breakdown of the timetable for all of this is at the bottom of this section of my Turnpike history page.

Not all of it was rebuilt to six lanes, just those around Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia.

[mightyace]

And, it doesn't help that the PA state legislature is raiding the PTC's piggy bank.

The PTC's obligations have never been lowered after the I-80 tolling project was denied.  Therefore, the PTC has little cash for its own projects.

IMO, even if that project had been approved (let's all remember that whether it should have approved or not is a horse we've beaten to death), the PTC might be OK for now, but would the legislature then have looked for even more from the PTC?

[Compulov]

Can anyone who knows a bit more about civil engineering tell me whether it looks like the new overpasses they've built along the US-13 to Bensalem section so far (Bristol Rd and Galloway Rd) look like they might be planning for four lanes in each direction? I realize they're initially planning three lanes + full inside and outside shoulders which seems to be their standard (interstate standard) over the last few years, but I wonder if they figure it's worth it to make them another 24 feet wider now (two more lanes * 12 feet), so that an upgrade in the future would only require some grading and paving. It seems to make sense when you consider that if/when they ever build a parallel span across the Delaware, that it would easily carry 8 lanes of traffic (four and four). That Galloway bridge looks pretty wide, too, though that might be because of the approach to the new barrier toll plaza.

[qguy]

Can anyone who knows a bit more about civil engineering tell me whether it looks like the new overpasses they've built along the US-13 to Bensalem section so far (Bristol Rd and Galloway Rd) look like they might be planning for four lanes in each direction? I realize they're initially planning three lanes + full inside and outside shoulders which seems to be their standard (interstate standard) over the last few years, but I wonder if they figure it's worth it to make them another 24 feet wider now (two more lanes * 12 feet), so that an upgrade in the future would only require some grading and paving. It seems to make sense when you consider that if/when they ever build a parallel span across the Delaware, that it would easily carry 8 lanes of traffic (four and four). That Galloway bridge looks pretty wide, too, though that might be because of the approach to the new barrier toll plaza.

The newly constructed Bristol Road bridge is designed to span at least three lanes and a full-width shoulder in each direction. There is currently a slope under the bridge from each abutment to the grade level of the roadway. If widening to four lanes (in each direction) becomes necessary at some point in the future, I believe the slope can be regraded to allow room. But that's far, far in the future. Remember, it's only two lanes now and will still be three lanes after the planned widening.

The newly constructed Galloway Road bridge is designed to span the tapering eastern end of the barrier-type toll plaza (where the ticket system will end, travelling eastbound) that is expected to go to construction later this year. So it is longer than would be necessary for only six lanes plus shoulders.

BTW, the Richlieu Road bridge, just to the west of Galloway Road and now under construction, will be of similar length to that of Galloway because it crosses the western taper of the toll plaza. The toll plaza will sit between the two bridges.

[cpzilliacus]

The newly constructed Galloway Road bridge is designed to span the tapering eastern end of the barrier-type toll plaza (where the ticket system will end, travelling eastbound) that is expected to go to construction later this year. So it is longer than would be necessary for only six lanes plus shoulders.

BTW, the Richlieu Road bridge, just to the west of Galloway Road and now under construction, will be of similar length to that of Galloway because it crosses the western taper of the toll plaza. The toll plaza will sit between the two bridges.

Will any of the tapers (and the toll plazas themselves) be needed if the PTC decides to go cashless? 

Presumably not, though I don't know how serious it is about electronic-only toll collection, even though they have recently studied the matter.

[mightyace]

^^^

It depends how strong the toll collectors' union is.

[mgk920]

And if they go transponder/photo only, why not just redesign all of the interchanges and add oodles more as though it were a regular interstate, except with gantries on all of the on and off ramps set to operate in a 'ticket' manner?

Mike

[Beltway]

The average interchange spacing between Valley Forge and Bristol is 6.6 miles.  That is -way- too wide for a circumferential highway for a major city, as the typical is about 2 miles.  Doesn't serve the local traffic well.

[qguy]

The average interchange spacing between Valley Forge and Bristol is 6.6 miles.  That is -way- too wide for a circumferential highway for a major city, as the typical is about 2 miles.  Doesn't serve the local traffic well.

For 20 years I've been saying that there should be more interchanges on the Turnpike in the Philadelphia metro area, sometimes even to Turnpike officials. There are some obvious locations, although the longer they wait, of course, the harder development makes it to accomplish.

Even before AET, they didn't need to be the usual trumpet-type. Virgina Drive and Street Road are a good examples of EZPass-only slip ramp sets. They should be putting those things everywhere.

With more access points there would be the fewer vehicles at each access point, and congestion would be decreased, even if there was some increase in overall ADT due to induced use.

[Beltway]

Yeahbut ... what about all the induced "sprawl" development ?  :-)

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Yeahbut ... what about all the induced "sprawl" development ?  :-)

Can't be "induced 'sprawl'" if its already there.