Massachusetts Fast Lane becoming E-ZPass

[deathtopumpkins]

I'm not so sure that's actually correct... while all cash lanes accept E-ZPass, I'm pretty sure there's no one in the booths at the E-ZPass only lanes.

[Alps]

As someone who's studied this, a dual-mode lane is only as efficient as the slowest cash user. It's much more efficient to separate payment modes in terms of overall throughput. (Not to mention safety - especially where signs show E-ZPass and a cash user butts in.)

[vdeane]

Wouldn't dual-mode be safer with that though?  If a cash user butts in to an E-ZPass lane in dual mode, the drivers can go around.  Without it, E-ZPass users are effectively barred from going through the toll booths unless they decide to forgo the transponder for the trip (and even that wouldn't work if the offending driver was at the exit from a ticket system).

[1995hoo]

As someone who's studied this, a dual-mode lane is only as efficient as the slowest cash user. It's much more efficient to separate payment modes in terms of overall throughput. (Not to mention safety - especially where signs show E-ZPass and a cash user butts in.)

I go on personal experience to say that the dual-mode lanes can be scary if you're paying cash. Virginia allows E-ZPass in all lanes, and most of the ramp tolls do not have a dedicated E-ZPass lane for reasons of lack of space (on the Dulles Toll Road, for example, typically there's one manned "full-service" lane and one unmanned "exact change or E-ZPass" lane–meaning a toll machine). Prior to my getting a Smart Tag (former Virginia-only transponder that later became part of E-ZPass), I nearly shit myself when I stopped to pay cash in an "Exact Change or Smart Tag" lane on the Dulles Toll Road and I barely had the window down when I saw a Ford Excursion barrelling down behind me with no apparent intention of slowing down. Yes, it's incumbent on the E-ZPass driver to be aware of what's ahead of him and to be prepared to stop, but that's small consolation to the driver who gets rear-ended. (I threw the coins and peeled out without waiting for the green light. Never got a summons for an unpaid toll so I guess the transaction went through.)

I've also seen the situation where a cash user stops in an E-ZPass Only lane. The main toll plaza on the Dulles Toll Road has the tollbooths removed from the two left lanes, but there's still a sort of divider thing between those lanes with some electronics and such. Speed limit is 35 mph but it's not unusual to see people go through at 60+ mph. I saw what nearly became a massive pileup when a carload of foreigners stopped in the right-hand of the two E-ZPass Only lanes looking for the basket to throw in their coins and people behind them started having to make panic stops. (In this case I think it IS relevant that the people in the offending vehicle were foreign because it made me suspect they might not have understood the mass of signs leading up to the toll plaza, all of which have lots of words in English only.)


Regarding having the gate on the E-ZPass Only lanes, that's common in New York City (or at least it used to be and still was on my last trip there in July 2010) and I always assumed it was just another means of trying to prevent cash-payers from cheating the system by driving through E-ZPass Only lanes without paying. Come to think of it, in the dual-mode lane scenario I describe above I almost think having the gate might be a better idea because if the E-ZPass users know they have to slow for the gate, they might be better prepared to stop when they encounter a cash user. Yeah, since I have an E-ZPass and a Florida SunPass I know it's damn annoying, but on the other hand so is a crash at a toll plaza.

[cpzilliacus]

As someone who's studied this, a dual-mode lane is only as efficient as the slowest cash user. It's much more efficient to separate payment modes in terms of overall throughput. (Not to mention safety - especially where signs show E-ZPass and a cash user butts in.)

I go on personal experience to say that the dual-mode lanes can be scary if you're paying cash. Virginia allows E-ZPass in all lanes, and most of the ramp tolls do not have a dedicated E-ZPass lane for reasons of lack of space (on the Dulles Toll Road, for example, typically there's one manned "full-service" lane and one unmanned "exact change or E-ZPass" lane–meaning a toll machine). Prior to my getting a Smart Tag (former Virginia-only transponder that later became part of E-ZPass), I nearly shit myself when I stopped to pay cash in an "Exact Change or Smart Tag" lane on the Dulles Toll Road and I barely had the window down when I saw a Ford Excursion barrelling down behind me with no apparent intention of slowing down. Yes, it's incumbent on the E-ZPass driver to be aware of what's ahead of him and to be prepared to stop, but that's small consolation to the driver who gets rear-ended. (I threw the coins and peeled out without waiting for the green light. Never got a summons for an unpaid toll so I guess the transaction went through.)

Hoo, I've been driving the Dulles Toll Road (Va. 267) pretty frequently since it opened to traffic about 1982 (of course, back then, everything was cash-only).  I agree with you about vehicles paying with transponder go roaring through the ramp toll gates all along the Toll Road corridor.

Regarding summonses, for many years, there was no enforcement of unpaid tolls along the Toll Road corridor (there is now - I was told that VDOT and then MWAA had to put in cameras and an enforcement  process as a condition of joining the E-ZPass IAG).  Unpaid toll in Virginia is, I believe, a civil infraction (similar to petty larceny) if a police officer sees a driver pass a toll point without paying.

I've also seen the situation where a cash user stops in an E-ZPass Only lane. The main toll plaza on the Dulles Toll Road has the tollbooths removed from the two left lanes, but there's still a sort of divider thing between those lanes with some electronics and such. Speed limit is 35 mph but it's not unusual to see people go through at 60+ mph. I saw what nearly became a massive pileup when a carload of foreigners stopped in the right-hand of the two E-ZPass Only lanes looking for the basket to throw in their coins and people behind them started having to make panic stops. (In this case I think it IS relevant that the people in the offending vehicle were foreign because it made me suspect they might not have understood the mass of signs leading up to the toll plaza, all of which have lots of words in English only.)

When  those lanes were first converted to electronic-only, many drivers stopped there to pay cash.  It's less common now, but still happens.  A testimony to the diversity of people that use the DTR!

Regarding having the gate on the E-ZPass Only lanes, that's common in New York City (or at least it used to be and still was on my last trip there in July 2010) and I always assumed it was just another means of trying to prevent cash-payers from cheating the system by driving through E-ZPass Only lanes without paying. Come to think of it, in the dual-mode lane scenario I describe above I almost think having the gate might be a better idea because if the E-ZPass users know they have to slow for the gate, they might be better prepared to stop when they encounter a cash user. Yeah, since I have an E-ZPass and a Florida SunPass I know it's damn annoying, but on the other hand so is a crash at a toll plaza.

One of the most-compelling reasons for going all cashless is the reduction in crashes at toll plazas.  Of course, saving money by not collecting cash is also a good reason! 

I've not driven in New York City in a very long time (though I've driven in upstate New York somewhat frequently, including the Thruway and some of the NYSBA crossings of the Hudson).

Getting back to Virginia, the Dulles Greenway (the extension of the Dulles Toll Road into Loudoun County) has gates at all of its toll barriers, even for E-ZPass Only lanes.

[vdeane]

Yes, it's incumbent on the E-ZPass driver to be aware of what's ahead of him and to be prepared to stop

At least in NY, E-ZPass drivers are supposed to come to a complete stop in dual mode lanes regardless of whether a cash customer is in front of them.

[Jim]

Yes, it's incumbent on the E-ZPass driver to be aware of what's ahead of him and to be prepared to stop

At least in NY, E-ZPass drivers are supposed to come to a complete stop in dual mode lanes regardless of whether a cash customer is in front of them.

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to wait for the attendant to switch the light from red to green, and that you can be fined for not coming to a stop.  I get on at 26 fairly often, where there is no dedicated E-ZPass lane on entry outside of morning rush (during which time there is no dedicated E-ZPass on exit..), and the attendants seem to get upset sometimes when they have someone breeze through without stopping.

[roadman]

I'm not so sure that's actually correct... while all cash lanes accept E-ZPass, I'm pretty sure there's no one in the booths at the E-ZPass only lanes.

You are correct, and I misspoke - thank you for noting the error.  I have revised my original posting.

[roadman]

Yes, it's incumbent on the E-ZPass driver to be aware of what's ahead of him and to be prepared to stop

At least in NY, E-ZPass drivers are supposed to come to a complete stop in dual mode lanes regardless of whether a cash customer is in front of them.

That's the way it is now on the Tobin Bridge.  Not because of any state law, but because of the gates in the lanes.  And yes, when a lane goes into EZ-Pass only mode, you still have to wait for the silly gate to go up.

[deathtopumpkins]

Yes, it's incumbent on the E-ZPass driver to be aware of what's ahead of him and to be prepared to stop

At least in NY, E-ZPass drivers are supposed to come to a complete stop in dual mode lanes regardless of whether a cash customer is in front of them.

That's the way it is now on the Tobin Bridge.  Not because of any state law, but because of the gates in the lanes.  And yes, when a lane goes into EZ-Pass only mode, you still have to wait for the silly gate to go up.

I've only ever seen the center lanes be E-ZPass only, and they do not have gates and do not require a full stop. Been ages since I've been through a cash lane though so I can't speak for those.

Also, I drove the Tobin Bridge around noon today and no new signage updates.

[Zmapper]

Regarding the Dulles Toll road and foreigners stopping on the road, is there a universal symbol for "tag lane"? Perhaps one needs to be created....

[roadman]

I've only ever seen the center lanes be E-ZPass only, and they do not have gates and do not require a full stop. Been ages since I've been through a cash lane though so I can't speak for those.

Also, I drove the Tobin Bridge around noon today and no new signage updates.

I haven't driven across the Tobin Bridge southbound in several years, so I'll gladly defer to you on this one.  However, when the Fast Lane lanes had just been installed, they had the gates as well.

[1995hoo]

Regarding the Dulles Toll road and foreigners stopping on the road, is there a universal symbol for "tag lane"? Perhaps one needs to be created....

Not that I know of. I believe the flashing yellow light that some of the states in the Northeast use to denote an "E-ZPass Only" lane is optional. Virginia doesn't use it, for example, and I don't ever recall seeing anything of that sort in Florida either. I've found Florida's toll signage to be quite clear, whereas I think a lot of the E-ZPass states seem to be a bit of a mixed bag. I'm sure part of that is that the E-ZPass states seem to have a lot more retrofitted toll plazas without highway-speed ORT lanes, as well as very little consistency over the years in terms of whether they have dual-mode lanes, ETC-only lanes, whatever.

I've always liked the flashing yellow light in those states that use it. I find it makes it easy to ascertain the ETC-only lane quickly in an area where you usually have an awful lot of signs in a small amount of space. I recall when I was growing up I thought the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority facilities in New York signed their plazas pretty well too in terms of using those bright orange "TOLL MACHINE" signs for the exact-change lanes. (Incidentally, those signs are part of the reason I still use the term "toll machine" in these threads. I recall for awhile the Verrazano Bridge toll plaza had some "Exact Toll" lanes–NOT "exact change"–designated with green signs and green lane markings. The toll at the time was around $7.00 and they would accept the exact $7.00 in bills or a token. So mentally I still distinguish between an "exact toll" lane and a "toll machine" lane. Of course, I also remember the time I got stuck behind some clod in the Verrazano "Exact Toll" lane who tried to pay with a $50 bill, according to the toll collector.)

Of course, to return to the original issue of a non-English speaker not understanding the signs, the flashing yellow light doesn't really solve that problem because he still has to understand the sign saying that the flashing yellow light denotes an ETC-only lane as well as the sign saying that those lanes do not accept cash.

The last time I used a Massachusetts toll facility was in 2008 on the way home from Nova Scotia (Turnpike from I-495 to I-84). I don't remember having any confusion at all on the lanes. I do think it makes sense for them to retain some kind of signage saying that Fast Lane transponders (perhaps without the sponsor's logo) are still accepted in E-ZPass lanes. It underscores to the dullards out there that they don't have to turn in their transponders. Virginia continued to have the Smart Tag logo on the signs for several years after joining the E-ZPass consortium. Does no harm, really.

[NE2]

Of course, I also remember the time I got stuck behind some clod in the Verrazano "Exact Toll" lane who tried to pay with a $50 bill, according to the toll collector.

Legal tender, blah blah blah. (The toll is after the bridge, so you've already incurred a debt.)

[roadman]

Legal tender, blah blah blah. (The toll is after the bridge, so you've already incurred a debt.)

"Geez, what happened to you?  You look terrible."
"I'll only say this - never give a toll taker a twenty."

From MAD Magazine's parody of The Godfather.

[agentsteel53]

by far the most puzzling toll collection mechanism was an exit off the New Jersey Turnpike in some not-so-keen neighborhood of Newark that required a deposit of 25 cents in 2003.

we pulled up to what, in the darkness, vaguely resembled the usual toll collection setup.  there was no gate, and no obvious place to deposit a coin.  after a minute or two, we realized the problem and just drove off. 

the entire toll collection assembly had been stolen!

[NE2]

by far the most puzzling toll collection mechanism was an exit off the New Jersey Turnpike in some not-so-keen neighborhood of Newark that required a deposit of 25 cents in 2003.

That would be the Parkway.

[1995hoo]

Of course, I also remember the time I got stuck behind some clod in the Verrazano "Exact Toll" lane who tried to pay with a $50 bill, according to the toll collector.

Legal tender, blah blah blah. (The toll is after the bridge, so you've already incurred a debt.)

I have no interest in getting into that debate, but the idea of saying that they accept only exact cash in that lane strikes me as no different from the well-established (and perfectly legal) practice many businesses have of saying that they won't accept banknotes of larger than a specified denomination (usually "Bills larger than $20 not accepted"). Arguably the idea of the "Exact Toll" lane is less restrictive than "Bills larger than $20 not accepted" because the toll plaza would still accept larger bills, just not in that particular lane.

(If the "legal tender" argument were valid, then wouldn't all toll machine lanes located at an exit or at the end of a tolled facility be illegal due to their inability to accept banknotes?)

I seem to recall the toll collector told the offender to pull off to the side between toll lanes just past the plaza and I don't know what came of it because we paid our toll and went on our way. I think the last time I remember paying a cash toll anywhere was in April 2006 on the Forth Road Bridge in Scotland.

[NE2]

I have no interest in getting into that debate, but the idea of saying that they accept only exact cash in that lane strikes me as no different from the well-established (and perfectly legal) practice many businesses have of saying that they won't accept banknotes of larger than a specified denomination (usually "Bills larger than $20 not accepted").

Because you're not incurring a debt by walking up to the cash register with an item. If you eat at a restaurant and then when you go to pay the bill they say they won't accept a $50, that's illegal.

[1995hoo]

Don't know why I'm letting myself get sucked into this....

The US government disagrees with your interpretation of "legal tender" and states that nobody (private individual or business) is required to accept US currency (banknotes or coins) unless a state, local, or territorial law requires otherwise. The reason is that while federal law establishes that the US banknotes and coins specified in the "legal tender" statute (31 USC 5103) are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor, there is no corresponding federal statute that requires anyone actually to accept that currency.

Again, if your "legal tender" argument were valid, then someone could bring a successful federal lawsuit against toll roads that accept only credit cards or ETC transactions (such as E-ZPass), and it would be against federal law to have toll machine lanes that do not accept banknotes nor pennies (come to think of it, I wonder how many of them accept half-dollars and dollar coins).

From the US Treasury Department "Legal Tender Status" FAQ:

I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

No offense, NE2, but I have to give the Treasury Department's position on this more credit than yours unless you can show me where the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise or a recent federal statute has rendered the Treasury Department's statement obsolete–although, as I said before, I also readily acknowledge (as does the Treasury FAQ) that state, local, or territorial law can indeed impose an obligation to accept cash.

I know of at least one toll road where the ramp tolls accept only E-ZPass or plastic and will not accept cash.

[NE2]

There's a difference between paying for something you haven't yet consumed and settling an existing debt.

No need for personal attacks, as frustrated as you may be.

[vdeane]

If you're at the checkout at a store or something similar, there's no debt (the items are still in the store unconsumed), so the treasury department's position is arguably not related to the debt issue at all.

[NE2]

Exactly. Now it would probably be legal for the toll taker to say "no, I won't take a $50, now turn around and go back over the bridge". But not "no, I won't take a $50, and by the way here's a $100 ticket for toll evasion".

I have no idea if they're required to make change for a $50, however.

[Scott5114]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that proprietors are also able to stipulate certain kinds of legal tender as not being accepted so long as the information is given to the consumer before the debt is incurred.

So if you walk into a restaurant and there is a "NO CASH" sign on the hostess's podium then it is valid because you could avoid incurring the debt at that point and say "No, I only have cash, so I'll eat elsewhere." But if they let you sit down and eat and then when they bring the check they tell you they won't accept cash, then it's too late for them to make that stipulation.

[vdeane]

Exactly. Now it would probably be legal for the toll taker to say "no, I won't take a $50, now turn around and go back over the bridge". But not "no, I won't take a $50, and by the way here's a $100 ticket for toll evasion".

I have no idea if they're required to make change for a $50, however.

Wouldn't you have used the bridge not once but twice then in that case?