Temporary route numbers

Started by bugo, September 24, 2012, 11:14:21 PM

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Alps

Quote from: roadman65 on September 25, 2012, 12:50:56 PM
The Trenton Freeway (US 1) was signed as NJ 174 until the freeway was completed north of Whiting Road.

I think that US 10 and US 27 in Michigan might of been signed that way until I-75 was finnished from US 10 to US 27 (now US 127).

I-78 WB from Newark to NJ 24 was signed "TO NJ 24 WEST" unitl I-78 opened to traffic in 1986 between Exits 41 and 48 for a good reason, as there were no direct routes between the two endpoints.
And here I was going to say NJ never did this - whoops! You're right on 174. As for I-78 WB, I believe it actually was built cosigned as NJ 24 - though the only evidence I have is the Parkway overpass sign:
Anyway, I'm not sure if 24 did end at 78 or continued to I-95, given that the original route of 24 did go into downtown Newark. But I can't think of another example where NJ built a road with one number knowing it was going to be renumbered upon completion. 169 was never intended to be 440, for example.


Scott5114

Quote from: national highway 1 on September 25, 2012, 05:01:03 AM
Quote from: bugo on September 25, 2012, 12:17:19 AM
US 377 north of Madill was signed without AASHTO permission.
That's just the AASHTO just trolling us for reasons unknown to man.

I recently saw an AASHTO letter which seemed to indicate the US 377 extension ODOT sought was rejected because it was not up to design specs. I need to do more research to confirm this, however.
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national highway 1

CA 210, CA 215 (now I-215), CA 805 (now I-805), CA 905
"Set up road signs; put up guideposts. Take note of the highway, the road that you take." Jeremiah 31:21

NE2

US 66 was a temporary number for the Interstates.

I went there.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

TheStranger

Quote from: national highway 1 on September 27, 2012, 11:00:44 PM
CA 210, CA 215 (now I-215), CA 805 (now I-805), CA 905

I don't recall CA 805 ever existing.

CA 15 on the other hand is DEFINITELY in line with the concept.
Chris Sampang

roadman65

Actually officially I-78 always was I-78.  The ramp signs to all Westbound entrances to I-78 in New Jersey just did not have I-78 WB shields and had a temporary NJ 24 shield with the intended white on blue WEST and arrows for when the Watchung Reservation Section was completed would only have to replace the shield itself while everything else was in place. 

Locals always did call it Route 24 and as far as the GSP, I think that sign was created to avoid confusion to locals at the time only knowing it as NJ 24, and the official route designation.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Occidental Tourist

Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 12:55:23 AM
Quote from: national highway 1 on September 27, 2012, 11:00:44 PM
CA 210, CA 215 (now I-215), CA 805 (now I-805), CA 905

I don't recall CA 805 ever existing.

CA 15 on the other hand is DEFINITELY in line with the concept.

I was in Santa Clarita today and saw one of the infamous "14U" spades on Sierra Hwy.  It looked like a new sign, too. 

Somebody explain to me again why Caltrans has to sign for motorists an unrelinquished highway that will eventually be removed from the highway system altogether?

agentsteel53

Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 12:55:23 AM
I don't recall CA 805 ever existing.

it didn't.  it's been I-805 since the beginning. 

as far as I know, it was entirely built on completely new right of way - nothing greater than maybe an incidental residential street occupied that right of way, as far as I know.
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akotchi

Quote from: Steve on September 26, 2012, 11:39:54 PM
Anyway, I'm not sure if 24 did end at 78 or continued to I-95, given that the original route of 24 did go into downtown Newark. But I can't think of another example where NJ built a road with one number knowing it was going to be renumbered upon completion. 169 was never intended to be 440, for example.

I thought I saw somewhere that the free portion of I-95 in Mercer County was NJ 129 at one point, before becoming I-95.  I don't recall the timing of the completion of the freeway and the Interstate designation, though.  Was this section of roadway ever posted as NJ 129?
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Kacie Jane

Quick google search confirms that, and gives 1961 for the freeway opening, and 1974 for the I-95 designation.  Haven't found Reliable(TM) Sources for it though.

Alps

Quote from: Kacie Jane on September 28, 2012, 01:48:09 PM
Quick google search confirms that, and gives 1961 for the freeway opening, and 1974 for the I-95 designation.  Haven't found Reliable(TM) Sources for it though.
www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/log/8.html#129 - as compiled years ago by a VERY reliable source.

Kacie Jane

Hence the capital letters and TM.  I believe it, but it wouldn't hold up in the court of Wikipedia.

Alps

Quote from: Kacie Jane on September 28, 2012, 07:28:03 PM
Hence the capital letters and TM.  I believe it, but it wouldn't hold up in the court of Wikipedia.
Put it this way - the source that compiled that information would be able to give Wiki enough material to confirm it, if the source or I or Wikipedia gave a shit.

national highway 1

#38
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 28, 2012, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on September 28, 2012, 12:55:23 AM
I don't recall CA 805 ever existing.

it didn't.  it's been I-805 since the beginning. 

as far as I know, it was entirely built on completely new right of way - nothing greater than maybe an incidental residential street occupied that right of way, as far as I know.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_805#History
QuoteInterstate 805 was once known as State Route 805, the only sign that still says SR-805 is in a parking lot at the Westfield mall in Plaza Bonita.

Quote from: Occidental Tourist on September 28, 2012, 01:32:27 AM

I was in Santa Clarita today and saw one of the infamous "14U" spades on Sierra Hwy.  It looked like a new sign, too. 

Somebody explain to me again why Caltrans has to sign for motorists an unrelinquished highway that will eventually be removed from the highway system altogether?
In that case, CA 86S. Would CA 195 still count, as it is still hanging around even though it is meant to be decommissioned when the CA 86 expressway is complete?
"Set up road signs; put up guideposts. Take note of the highway, the road that you take." Jeremiah 31:21

Kacie Jane

#39
Quote from: national highway 1 on September 28, 2012, 11:27:33 PM
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_805#History
QuoteInterstate 805 was once known as State Route 805, the only sign that still says SR-805 is in a parking lot at the Westfield mall in Plaza Bonita.

If using Wikipedia as a source, it's probably best to make sure the statement in question hasn't been tagged "dubious" since January 2011.

Seems to me that someone found an error sign, falsely assumed it was from a prior era, and decided to put it on Wikipedia.

mcdonaat

Louisiana has a few... LA 3094 is the temporary number for the northern extension of US 171. LA 3132 is the temporary number for I-220's loop around Shreveport. Both are, erm... dead in the water at the moment. US 171 was supposed to be moved about 30 years ago, although progress is moving.

amroad17

NY 690 was temporarily NY 48 when the Baldwinsville bypass first opened in 1971.  Around 1975 is when NY 48 was put back on its original alignment (from I-690 to north of the village of Baldwinsville) and NY 690 was commissioned in its place.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

myosh_tino

Quote from: Kacie Jane on September 28, 2012, 11:46:29 PM
Quote from: national highway 1 on September 28, 2012, 11:27:33 PM
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_805#History
QuoteInterstate 805 was once known as State Route 805, the only sign that still says SR-805 is in a parking lot at the Westfield mall in Plaza Bonita.

If using Wikipedia as a source, it's probably best to make sure the statement in question hasn't been tagged "dubious" since January 2011.

Seems to me that someone found an error sign, falsely assumed it was from a prior era, and decided to put it on Wikipedia.
Agree with Kacie Jane.  I suspect the CA-805 shield is an error shield put up by the mall.  According to California Highways (cahighways.org), there's no mention of I-805 ever being CA-805... especially since I-805 was approved as a chargeable Interstate back in 1959.
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roadman65

Wasn't the US 80 freeway near Dallas, TX once temporarily signed as I-20 before 1971 when the current I-20 alignment south of the Dallas- Fort Worth Metroplex opened to traffic?  Didn't the defunct DFW Turnpike also have I-20 signed as well during that time period?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

vdeane

Quote from: amroad17 on September 29, 2012, 11:41:32 AM
NY 690 was temporarily NY 48 when the Baldwinsville bypass first opened in 1971.  Around 1975 is when NY 48 was put back on its original alignment (from I-690 to north of the village of Baldwinsville) and NY 690 was commissioned in its place.
This happened in the Southern Tier too.  Large portions of what is now I-86 were originally known as NY 15 and NY 70.  Part of I-390 was built as NY 245.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

NE2

Part of I-95 in Rhode Island was originally RI 95.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

amroad17

I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

NYYPhil777

Quote from: Brian556 on September 25, 2012, 09:31:53 AM
Tennessee-TN 840 (future I-840 around Nashville)
California-Temp I-5 on CA 99 (before I-5 was complete)

Texas:
Spur 553 on then-future SH 121 frontage roads in Lewisville
TX 197 on then-future US 77 in Ellis County
Spur ??? on SH 121 north of DFW airport during planning construction, before SH 121 moved to this alignemnt upon completion.
     
I highly doubt Tennessee 840 will become Interstate 840.
I posted once that TennDOT was rumoured to be building the route just like an interstate but sign it as a state route just to avoid any studies that would, if conducted, have a good chance of telling Tenn-840 South to go to hell. That's just what happened to the northern portion of the route, but by local opposition and the state government.
If the interstate designation is to be a reality, I'll be shocked.
So, the Tenn-840 designation is not temporary.
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Bart: Nowhere special.
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Henry

Quote from: NYYPhil777 on October 02, 2012, 04:46:07 AM
Quote from: Brian556 on September 25, 2012, 09:31:53 AM
Tennessee-TN 840 (future I-840 around Nashville)
California-Temp I-5 on CA 99 (before I-5 was complete)

Texas:
Spur 553 on then-future SH 121 frontage roads in Lewisville
TX 197 on then-future US 77 in Ellis County
Spur ??? on SH 121 north of DFW airport during planning construction, before SH 121 moved to this alignemnt upon completion.
     
I highly doubt Tennessee 840 will become Interstate 840.
I posted once that TennDOT was rumoured to be building the route just like an interstate but sign it as a state route just to avoid any studies that would, if conducted, have a good chance of telling Tenn-840 South to go to hell. That's just what happened to the northern portion of the route, but by local opposition and the state government.
If the interstate designation is to be a reality, I'll be shocked.
So, the Tenn-840 designation is not temporary.
Much like VA 895, apparently. I remember seeing a proposed route in Richmond carrying the I-895 marker, but somehow the powers that be decided against it in the end.
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1995hoo

Quote from: Henry on October 02, 2012, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on October 02, 2012, 04:46:07 AM
Quote from: Brian556 on September 25, 2012, 09:31:53 AM
Tennessee-TN 840 (future I-840 around Nashville)
California-Temp I-5 on CA 99 (before I-5 was complete)

Texas:
Spur 553 on then-future SH 121 frontage roads in Lewisville
TX 197 on then-future US 77 in Ellis County
Spur ??? on SH 121 north of DFW airport during planning construction, before SH 121 moved to this alignemnt upon completion.
     
I highly doubt Tennessee 840 will become Interstate 840.
I posted once that TennDOT was rumoured to be building the route just like an interstate but sign it as a state route just to avoid any studies that would, if conducted, have a good chance of telling Tenn-840 South to go to hell. That's just what happened to the northern portion of the route, but by local opposition and the state government.
If the interstate designation is to be a reality, I'll be shocked.
So, the Tenn-840 designation is not temporary.
Much like VA 895, apparently. I remember seeing a proposed route in Richmond carrying the I-895 marker, but somehow the powers that be decided against it in the end.

The "somehow" is pretty simple–it's a toll road and so they were told they can't have an Interstate designation as long as the tolls remain.
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