Redundant Name in Usage

[roadman65]

I noticed that when the now defunct TWA was in business and one of the world's major carriers, many people were calling it TWA Airlines when the "A" in TWA is for Airlines.

Then you have today people using the term PIN Number  for ATM use when its redundant.  Also, I have heard some people call and ATM an ATM Machine as well.

Are there any other such cases where redundancy like this occurs in common speech?  Even local terms will do that may be used in only one area of the US could be stated.

[xonhulu]

Some others I've heard:

HIV Virus
PSAT/SAT Test
RAM Memory
LCD Display
UPC Code

But this tendency occurs a lot in common speech.  Examples are endless:  "hot water heater," "completely full," "past history," etc.  You even see it in the Preamble of the Constitution: ". . . in order to form a 'more perfect union' . . ."

Another annoying habit: I know quite a few people who throw unnecessary "un-" prefixes on words, so they "unpeel" an orange (they put the peel back on?) or they "unthaw" food (so they re-freeze it after thawing?).

[roadman65]

Some others I've heard:

HIV Virus
PSAT/SAT Test
RAM Memory
LCD Display
UPC Code

But this tendency occurs a lot in common speech.  Examples are endless:  "hot water heater," "completely full," "past history," etc.  You even see it in the Preamble of the Constitution: ". . . in order to form a 'more perfect union' . . ."

Another annoying habit: I know quite a few people who throw unnecessary "un-" prefixes on words, so they "unpeel" an orange (they put the peel back on?) or they "unthaw" food (so they re-freeze it after thawing?).

What about the word baggage claim?  In Spanish its reclamo, that translates to reclaim in our language.  You are not reclaiming it as you already own it or it was not even lost or given away in the sense.

How about a pair of pants?  Its not two of the same item, but only one item.  Then why is it plural as well?

Why are all amounts of fish in the singular?  If someone uses fishes in their vocabulary it is considered improper, but most people do it anyhow.  Properly it is: I have caught 3 fish, next time I hope to catch 5 fish on my trip. Not, I caught 3 fishes and I hope to catch 5 fishes next time, which is what many would say.

[NE2]

silly roadman65 thread

[vdeane]

There's probably examples in every case where an acronym interferes with the way we normally construct sentences.  The human brain doesn't "unpack" the acronym the way a computer would when processing language; instead, we treat it the same as a regular word.  Once I've heard a lot this semester is "HTTP Protocol".

[Grzrd]

Road related, from the Alliance for I-69 Texas:

Each designation requires an extensive submittal by the TxDOT and an exhaustive review by the federal FHWA to see that standards are being met.

[Beltway]

I noticed that when the now defunct TWA was in business and one of the world's major carriers, many people were calling it TWA Airlines when the "A" in TWA is for Airlines.

Then you have today people using the term PIN Number  for ATM use when its redundant.  Also, I have heard some people call and ATM an ATM Machine as well.

Are there any other such cases where redundancy like this occurs in common speech?  Even local terms will do that may be used in only one area of the US could be stated.

SSN Number

[Scott5114]

PIN number is one that I sometimes intentionally use at work–in an Oklahoma accent, "PIN" and "pen" sounds the same, and I certainly do not want the customers to use their pen on the machine.

[bulldog1979]

RAS syndrome on Wikipedia explains this phenomenon pretty well.

[DaBigE]

VIN Number
LED Light

[NE2]

LED Light

Nope. The light that the diodes emit is not the same as the physical light (bulb).

[kphoger]

'Reiterate' means to say something again...again.

The most common ones I hear have already been mentioned:  PIN and VIN.

[DaBigE]

LED Light

Nope. The light that the diodes emit is not the same as the physical light (bulb).

Does the average consumer care about that technicality? Highly doubt it. LEDs emit light by definition, how or how much it does is not the topic of this thread.

[Scott5114]

LED Light

Nope. The light that the diodes emit is not the same as the physical light (bulb).

Does the average consumer care about that technicality? Highly doubt it. LEDs emit light by definition, how or how much it does is not the topic of this thread.

The average consumer puts their PIN number in the ATM machine, so...

[roadman65]

There's probably examples in every case where an acronym interferes with the way we normally construct sentences.  The human brain doesn't "unpack" the acronym the way a computer would when processing language; instead, we treat it the same as a regular word.  Once I've heard a lot this semester is "HTTP Protocol".

You are right about this as, for example, Scuba used to be S.C.U.B.A that stands for Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus, but over time it went from acronym to an actual word.  Most people today do not know where the name Scuba came from, but nonetheless it was an acronym.

The same for the Disney Theme Park called EPCOT that originally was an acronym for Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow.  Now the purpose of the original name is not that anymore and has become a household word that even FDOT has changed the word EPCOT to Epcot on area road signs including recent I-4 guide signs.

[J N Winkler]

What about the word baggage claim?  In Spanish its reclamo, that translates to reclaim in our language.  You are not reclaiming it as you already own it or it was not even lost or given away in the sense.

"Baggage claim" is an Americanism--in British English (as seen in airports like Heathrow, etc.) the phrase is "Baggage reclaim."  The act of reclamation being referred to is taking back into your possession a thing that you checked in when you started your flight.  (You can continue to own a thing that is not actually in your possession.)

Why are all amounts of fish in the singular?  If someone uses fishes in their vocabulary it is considered improper, but most people do it anyhow.  Properly it is: I have caught 3 fish, next time I hope to catch 5 fish on my trip. Not, I caught 3 fishes and I hope to catch 5 fishes next time, which is what many would say.

Not in my experience--when I hear plural "fishes" (except in the context of traditional phrases like "miracle of the loaves and fishes") I instantly suspect the person using it is a deaf ASL signer who effectively uses English as a "first and half" language.  It is really very jarring.

[1995hoo]

I regularly hear people use the abbreviations "AM" and "PM" together with "morning" and "afternoon" or "evening." For example, "The Broncos and the Chargers will play at 8:30 PM Monday night." The use of "PM" renders "night" unnecessary and redundant.

Another one that derives from ignorance of a foreign term is "Please RSVP." People say that constantly as though "RSVP" were a verb. It's not. It's not even a word. The "R" stands for a verb, however. "RSVP" is an abbreviation for répondez s'il vous plaît, literally "please respond" or "respond please," so if you say "Please RSVP," you're saying "please respond please" (or "please please respond," which I guess could constitute begging). I suppose I've seen worse, though–I recall at least one invitation that said "Call for RSVP," which led me to assume the sender thought "RSVP" was some sort of synonym for "reservations."

....

The same for the Disney Theme Park called EPCOT that originally was an acronym for Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow.  Now the purpose of the original name is not that anymore and has become a household word that even FDOT has changed the word EPCOT to Epcot on area road signs including recent I-4 guide signs.

Disney themselves now spell it as "Epcot" on the Disney World website and in other promotional materials.

[BamaZeus]

"hot water heater".  Why do you want to heat up water that's already hot?

[hbelkins]

"hot water heater".  Why do you want to heat up water that's already hot?

Didn't know my brother had joined the forum!  He says that all the time.

I once had a boss whose pet peeve was the use of the term "ink pen." He said by definition, a pen has ink in it.

(Warning, off-color remark follows).

Once when someone questioned him about it, he grabbed his crotch and said, "There's cum in here, but I don't call it my cum dick!"

[kphoger]

Foreign language ones happen all the time....
I eat roast beef au jus.  I don't eat it with au jus sauce.
I eat quesadillas.  I don't eat cheese quesadillas (Taco Bell, I'm looking at you).
I like burritos con queso.  I don't like burritos with con queso (or with con queso cheese).
'Please RSVP' is probably my all time biggest wedding pet peeve, along with 'Have you RSVPed yet?'

Has anyone heard of Halloween Eve?  I like to call it October 30 instead.  Then there's Christmas Eve Day for December 24.  I think I'm going to start calling December 22 'Christmas Eve Eve Eve Day'.

[agentsteel53]

'Please RSVP' is probably my all time biggest wedding pet peeve, along with 'Have you RSVPed yet?'

the RSVP one, which has come up several times in this thread, is to me the least peevy - it is a result of applying prescriptive terms to language (see: Academie Francaise) as opposed to letting language evolve by itself.

in the US, "RSVP" is a verb without any knowledge of what it means in the original French, because we borrowed it from the original French many centuries ago!  sure, it's ignorant, but it's nowhere near the most ignorant use of language we've got going.  (I'm looking at you, "your" vs. "you're".)

while we're borrowing French poorly, the plural of "hors d'oeuvre" is "hors d'oeuvre", not "hors d'oeuvres".  but, whatever.  Just as long as we don't spell it "orderves"!

[agentsteel53]

But this tendency occurs a lot in common speech.  Examples are endless:  "hot water heater," "completely full," "past history," etc.  You even see it in the Preamble of the Constitution: ". . . in order to form a 'more perfect union' . . ."

I don't think "more perfect union" is applicable here.  I think literally "more" is not an appropriate descriptor for "perfect", as something is either perfect, or it is not, but as far as figurative speech goes, it's easy to understand what Madison et. al. were getting at, so I don't mind it.

it is, in my opinion, not a redundancy like "completely full", but rather a mildly skewed metaphor that allows "perfect" to take on shades of meaning.  given that unions can indeed have degrees of togetherness, from Bosnia-Herzegovina to Borg Collective, "more perfect" is a valid descriptor in my world.

(but, then again, I am the farthest thing from a language prescriptivist.  I make up words all the time!  see "peevy" in my previous post in this thread.)

[kphoger]

while we're borrowing French poorly, the plural of "hors d'oeuvre" is "hors d'oeuvre", not "hors d'oeuvres".  but, whatever.  Just as long as we don't spell it "orderves"!

My dad calls them whores' ovaries.

[deathtopumpkins]

I eat quesadillas.  I don't eat cheese quesadillas (Taco Bell, I'm looking at you).

A friend of mine actually got called out on this at Qdoba the other day when he ordered a "quesadilla with grilled chicken and cheese". The employee pointed out "you know, you don't need to say cheese. That's what the 'quesa' in 'quesadilla' means!"

Admittedly though, that is one I often purposefully do to distinguish from a chicken quesadilla, etc.

[formulanone]

I regularly hear people use the abbreviations "AM" and "PM" together with "morning" and "afternoon" or "evening." For example, "The Broncos and the Chargers will play at 8:30 PM Monday night." The use of "PM" renders "night" unnecessary and redundant.

Well, when comparing the visible position of the sun in our sky, during the summer months, 8am and 8pm might appear the same, if one was not aware of the actual time of day...although, I'm using a rather far-fetched example (although a handful of my day-nights in college were similarly flip-flopped). Otherwise, I'm being a little pedantic...but perhaps people like to refer to a non-specific time of day and refine it with an actual time for emphasis.