Fluxuating Control Cities on Pull through signs

[roadman65]

Someone in another thread mentioned about Illinois that there were two different control cities used for the same road next to each other on overhead signs.  That made me think of a similar situation here in Orlando.

On I-4 Eastbound at Exit 75B you have the pull through sign start with "Daytona Beach" as control city on the pull through sign there.  Then a few miles further it becomes Downtown Orlando at Exit 78. 

Daytona is further than Downtown Orlando, and yet the further mentioned after Orlando, as it has been from Tampa, and before Downtown of Orlando.

Are there any other examples of this kind of situation.

[amh424]

This is likely what the OP is referring to.  I-294 NB passing under I-190, the collector ramp to the right is off of I-190 EB.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8384.msg195247#msg195247

[wphiii]

Not quite exactly what you're talking about, but it bothers me when only pull-through control cities are listed instead of any guidance for the city you're actually about to be driving into.

I've noticed this problem in Memphis and Nashville. For example, coming in I-40 from the airport in Nashville, there comes a point where you can actually see the Nashville skyline, and are coming up to the I-24/I-40 split and the signs only have messages for places that are far away. No indication for what you should be doing to get to places that are actually in Nashville.

This also happens to a certain extent in Phoenix. Where's Downtown Phoenix? Tempe?

[roadman65]

Looking for cities that go back and forth on consecutive signs.

[hbelkins]

Not quite exactly what you're talking about, but it bothers me when only pull-through control cities are listed instead of any guidance for the city you're actually about to be driving into.

I've noticed this problem in Memphis and Nashville. For example, coming in I-40 from the airport in Nashville, there comes a point where you can actually see the Nashville skyline, and are coming up to the I-24/I-40 split and the signs only have messages for places that are far away. No indication for what you should be doing to get to places that are actually in Nashville.

This also happens to a certain extent in Phoenix. Where's Downtown Phoenix? Tempe?

I am of an opposite mind. It bugs me to be in the metro area of a city, and that city continues to appear on guide signs.

For instance, signage on I-64 westbound inside the Gene Snyder Freeway (I-265) continues to indicate Louisville.

For my money, you're already IN Louisville.

Ditto for I-75 southbound at I-275 in the West Chester area. That's Cincinnati, even if you aren't in the corporate limits yet.

[Revive 755]

EB I-80 in Iowa goes back and forth between Chicago and Davenport east of the western I-35 interchange.

At the western I-35/I-235 interchange:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=des+moines,+ia&hl=en&ll=41.592065,-93.788159&spn=0.013561,0.033023&sll=41.592049,-93.788395&sspn=0.027249,0.066047&hnear=Des+Moines,+Polk,+Iowa&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.592057,-93.788401&panoid=iYZ6RLC9P2LvnI_-RhIbGw&cbp=12,98.13,,0,-7.95

At the eastern I-35/I-235 interchange:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=des+moines,+ia&hl=en&ll=41.650998,-93.584762&spn=0.013612,0.033023&sll=41.592049,-93.788395&sspn=0.027249,0.066047&hnear=Des+Moines,+Polk,+Iowa&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.650767,-93.584447&panoid=SSHk70TatYEf7yecSf4kzw&cbp=12,95.85,,0,-6.84

[Alps]

The magical disappearing, reappearing New York on I-80 EB from Cleveland.

[realjd]

On I95, the control cities are Daytona Beach and West Palm Beach except here in Brevard County where we for some reason skip those and use Jacksonville and Miami. Cross into Volusia or Indian River though and it goes back to Daytona and West Palm.

[TheStranger]

I am of an opposite mind. It bugs me to be in the metro area of a city, and that city continues to appear on guide signs.

For instance, signage on I-64 westbound inside the Gene Snyder Freeway (I-265) continues to indicate Louisville.

For my money, you're already IN Louisville.

I think this is where a combination of your approach and the OP's would make sense:

once a road crosses into a metro area, you get both specific and distant with control cities. for instance...

101 south on the eastbound Ventura Freeway in San Fernado Valley is signed for "Los Angeles" even though the entirety of the final 30 miles of 101 is within the city.

"Downtown Los Angeles" or "Hollywood" work well as the short-distance southbound control, and a "Pasadena via 134" or a longer extreme, "San Bernardino" become valid for the distant second city.

[pianocello]

EB I-80 in Iowa goes back and forth between Chicago and Davenport east of the western I-35 interchange.

That's weird. I think the western I-35 interchange is the only mention of Chicago on a BGS until you get to Davenport. It starts showing up on mileage signs around Iowa City.

[agentsteel53]

I-5 northbound is Santa Ana control city in Orange County south of Santa Ana, but is Los Angeles in San Diego County as well as north of Santa Ana.

(the only people that care about Santa Ana are the hosers in the Orange County Caltrans office.  otherwise, I've never heard anyone saying "ooh, let's go to Santa Ana for the weekend!")

[cpzilliacus]

As long as the pull through sign doesn't read "THRU TRAFFIC" I am probably going to be pretty content.

Though I am not especially enthused with the ones on northbound I-405 (San Diego Freeway) that read "Sacramento."

[kphoger]

EB I-80 in Iowa goes back and forth between Chicago and Davenport east of the western I-35 interchange.

That's weird. I think the western I-35 interchange is the only mention of Chicago on a BGS until you get to Davenport. It starts showing up on mileage signs around Iowa City.

Could be because I-80 doesn't go to Chicago.  138th St is the southern boundary of the city, 4½ miles from I-80.  To get to Chicago from I-80 in Iowa, the reasonable route would be to take I-88  from just east of Davenport, which transitions onto the Eisenhower to downtown.

[bassoon1986]

I am of an opposite mind. It bugs me to be in the metro area of a city, and that city continues to appear on guide signs.

For instance, signage on I-64 westbound inside the Gene Snyder Freeway (I-265) continues to indicate Louisville.

For my money, you're already IN Louisville.

I am of the same mindset as well. Shreveport, LA used to have "Shreveport" listed on entrance ramps to I-20 eastbound when you were already well within Shreveport AND inside the 220 loop. Those have now been changed to Monroe when signage was all replaced a few years ago. I-49 northbound there has Shreveport listed all the way until I-20 in downtown. Granted, it has not been extended north of I-20, but I think it's ridiculous to have Shreveport there when you may as well be in the central business district of town.

In places like New Orleans, the setup works fine. I-610 gets the further city (Baton Rouge or Slidell) as it acts as the bypass and I-10 BGS's change to N.O. Business District, IIRC.

But what wphiii says is definitely try for a lot of larger cities with multiple interstates or multiple loops. Additional signage could be added for which interstates/exits are destined for downtown _____

[wphiii]

Not quite exactly what you're talking about, but it bothers me when only pull-through control cities are listed instead of any guidance for the city you're actually about to be driving into.

I've noticed this problem in Memphis and Nashville. For example, coming in I-40 from the airport in Nashville, there comes a point where you can actually see the Nashville skyline, and are coming up to the I-24/I-40 split and the signs only have messages for places that are far away. No indication for what you should be doing to get to places that are actually in Nashville.

This also happens to a certain extent in Phoenix. Where's Downtown Phoenix? Tempe?

I am of an opposite mind. It bugs me to be in the metro area of a city, and that city continues to appear on guide signs.

For instance, signage on I-64 westbound inside the Gene Snyder Freeway (I-265) continues to indicate Louisville.

For my money, you're already IN Louisville.

Ditto for I-75 southbound at I-275 in the West Chester area. That's Cincinnati, even if you aren't in the corporate limits yet.

It seems in those kinds of situations, the DOTs are using just the name of the city to actually indicate the "center city" or CBD or what have you, and assuming that the motorist will automatically be able to glean that (an assumption that I don't think is entirely unfair). Sure, it's not optimal, but I don't have nearly as much of a problem with that as I do with zero positive guidance pertaining to the urban area you're actually in. Yes, space permitting, I'd certainly much rather see more specific messaging, i.e. "Downtown X." But I know that space on highway guide signs is not always a trivial matter, and I just feel much better with that "abbreviated" form of current-city guidance than none at all.

[TheStranger]

Though I am not especially enthused with the ones on northbound I-405 (San Diego Freeway) that read "Sacramento."

Years ago, those used to read "Bakersfield" (reflecting how the Golden State Freeway used to be part of 99 south of Wheeler Ridge) - but I still feel like that's not ideal either.

If 210 west can have San Fernando as a control city, 405 and 170 northbound could use that too IMO.

[spmkam]

On a guide sign on SB US 7 in CT it says 95 North to Bridgeport, even though New Haven is the control city for the area. Also on 95,  signs in the city say New Haven CT I-95 North, but in Westchester County, NY they generally say "Conn." instead of New Haven.

[PurdueBill]

ODOT went through a phase with Wheeling shown as the control city for I-70 EB west of downtown Columbus, later changing it back to Columbus.  Meanwhile nearby, there is still a mixture of old signage (dwindling but still out there) with Indianapolis as a control city for I-70 WB, with Dayton on newer signs.  If there is room, might as well include both.  70 actually hits Indy but misses Dayton proper to the north, although the DAY airport is on the other side of I-70 from the city.  If only one control city, I guess I'd grudgingly go along with the Dayton switch, although I'm not totally sold on it.    I-70 in Ohio and Indiana between "Dayton" and Indy also exhibits switcheroos on older and newer signage, with Columbus on mostly older signs and some new carbon-copies and Dayton on some newer redesigned signs.

Steve already mentioned the NYC that I thought of as well--older signage had New York City as the control city for I-80 EB even west of Youngstown, with Y'town only added on a panel in the position of an exit tab.  Some newer signs have both listed.  Once you get to PA, no mention of NYC.

[cpzilliacus]

Though I am not especially enthused with the ones on northbound I-405 (San Diego Freeway) that read "Sacramento."

Years ago, those used to read "Bakersfield" (reflecting how the Golden State Freeway used to be part of 99 south of Wheeler Ridge) - but I still feel like that's not ideal either.

If 210 west can have San Fernando as a control city, 405 and 170 northbound could use that too IMO.

I like that.  Especially since it also implies the San Fernando Valley.

[TheStranger]

I like that.  Especially since it also implies the San Fernando Valley.

Another road which could easily use "San Fernando" as a control: Route 118 east.

[A.J. Bertin]

Could be because I-80 doesn't go to Chicago.  138th St is the southern boundary of the city, 4½ miles from I-80.  To get to Chicago from I-80 in Iowa, the reasonable route would be to take I-88  from just east of Davenport, which transitions onto the Eisenhower to downtown.

I don't buy into this argument. There are many occasions when you're an interstate lists a control city that it doesn't go to. It doesn't matter that the interstate doesn't go there itself. I'm sure there's still a LOT of traffic from Des Moines that starts using I-80 to head east to Chicago. Depending on which part of Chicago they are going to, they might take I-88 or they might stay on I-80 and take it to, say, I-55 or I-57.

Another good example of this... I-57 south from Chicago. It uses Memphis as the control city. I-57 does not go to Memphis, but Memphis is a good control city for that.

This happens a lot.

[kphoger]

Agreed.  It was just a suggestion for why that might be the case.

[pianocello]

That's weird. I think the western I-35 interchange is the only mention of Chicago on a BGS until you get to Davenport. It starts showing up on mileage signs around Iowa City.

Could be because I-80 doesn't go to Chicago.  138th St is the southern boundary of the city, 4½ miles from I-80.  To get to Chicago from I-80 in Iowa, the reasonable route would be to take I-88  from just east of Davenport, which transitions onto the Eisenhower to downtown.

I understand what you're saying. What I was trying to say (and why I was confused) was that Chicago isn't mentioned at all in Iowa west of Davenport, except on mileage signs.

[Kacie Jane]

It's been three days, and no one's going to point out that fluxuate (as opposed to fluctuate) is not a word?  I guess we're nicer here than on the rest of the internet.

The magical disappearing, reappearing New York on I-80 EB from Cleveland.

Likewise, New York north from Baltimore on I-95.

[sp_redelectric]

I am of an opposite mind. It bugs me to be in the metro area of a city, and that city continues to appear on guide signs.

Nothing like I-205 southbound at I-84 in Portland, OR - having passed not one, but TWO "Entering Portland" signs (Thanks to the tiny, nearly insignificant town of Maywood Park that is fully surrounded by Portland yet ODOT felt the need to install signs telling you when you enter Maywood Park and then when you re-enter Portland, 650 feet later), seeing the overhead for "I-84 East // Portland".

But back on topic, the only example I can think of is on northbound Oregon 217 to westbound U.S. 26, the control city for U.S. 26 alternates between Astoria and Seaside.