Is this forum too moderated?

[deathtopumpkins]

Oh yes, I'm a Nazi since I think we've done a good job of keeping this forum from devolving into notging but spam and trolls and MTR-ness.

I feel like I can't win here. One week I have someone sending me angry PMs saying we don't moderate enough, now I have a fellow moderator calling me a Nazi.

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

[Alps]

Oh yes, I'm a Nazi since I think we've done a good job of keeping this forum from devolving into notging but spam and trolls and MTR-ness.

I feel like I can't win here. One week I have someone sending me angry PMs saying we don't moderate enough, now I have a fellow moderator calling me a Nazi.

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

And this is why some of us are saying you're too young to be a moderator.

[bugo]

Oh yes, I'm a Nazi since I think we've done a good job of keeping this forum from devolving into notging but spam and trolls and MTR-ness.

I feel like I can't win here. One week I have someone sending me angry PMs saying we don't moderate enough, now I have a fellow moderator calling me a Nazi.

Then take the middle road.  That's all I'm asking.

[Brandon]

Speaking of drama and of being dramatic...

Oh yes, I'm a Nazi since I think we've done a good job of keeping this forum from devolving into notging but spam and trolls and MTR-ness.

I feel like I can't win here. One week I have someone sending me angry PMs saying we don't moderate enough, now I have a fellow moderator calling me a Nazi.

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

I don't think anyone called you a Nazi yet, but you do win the Godwin's Law Award for being the first to being it up.  Some posts should be merged and some should not, but it's all content-based, not just because they appear next to each other.  No one's suggesting you are the equivalent of the Soup Nazi.

[Grzrd]

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

At least you did not open a new thread for your dramatic announcement; nevertheless, please respect the sentiment providing the foundation for Rule 16:

- Opening a thread announcing that you're leaving. Sorry, but no one really cares.

[agentsteel53]

Yeah, but you're still filling up the "Recent Posts" list which is really, really annoying and actually hinders navigability.

I had not thought of it that way.  I use the "recent posts" view and it doesn't bother me at all.

Honestly, can somebody explain to me why the fuck somebody merging your posts is so terrible beyond the fact that it's perceived as overmoderation? You're not losing any content, it just makes the forum more legible and doesn't spam the recent posts lists.

again, I don't care if someone does it - so long as I am not warned for doing things the "other way".  yes, I realize that makes me guilty of, effectively, littering and expecting others to pick up after me, but I've only noted maybe 2-3 times since I've been on this forum that someone has merged my posts into one.

[corco]

The thing is that post merging isn't moderation. There's no moderating taking place- it's purely a stylistic change, which is why I don't get why people get offended by it.

And that's important- a uniform style allows for more focus on the words being said, which fosters a higher quality of discussion. Even if it seems trivial, it's absolutely important and a uniform style is one of the things that keeps this place from devolving into MTR.

That said, there's two routes to uniform style- one is to always merge posts, and the other is to kill the post merge tool. In reality, I think either one is acceptable but lets commit to one or the other and realize that at the end of the day, which choice is made really, really doesn't matter. Both styles have their pros and cons, and a perfect solution doesn't exist within the technical limitations of the forum.

[exit322]

If consensus is that insulting sigs are OK, I'll change mine to:
"X blows goats and I have proof" = "I have a video of said goat-blowing in my porn folder, along with the nudes of my sister and cousin"

Just don't take that to Alanland.  Penalty for such an offense is having to watch an endless loop of the 6-3 Browns win over Seattle last year.

[Grzrd]

a uniform style allows for more focus on the words being said, which fosters a higher quality of discussion.

How?

it's purely a stylistic change

Agreed.  As such, why not let the author of the post(s) decide how best to express their multiple thoughts? Uniformity for uniformity's sake alone is pointless.  A legitimate basis for having a uniform style would make sense, which is why I asked the question in section one of this post.

[deathtopumpkins]

Oh yes, I'm a Nazi since I think we've done a good job of keeping this forum from devolving into notging but spam and trolls and MTR-ness.

I feel like I can't win here. One week I have someone sending me angry PMs saying we don't moderate enough, now I have a fellow moderator calling me a Nazi.

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

And this is why some of us are saying you're too young to be a moderator.

I don't see what's immature about that? Something an immature little kid would do is go and post something with lots of foul language complaining about people, and then go on some rampage editing things they shouldn't, and deleting things, and wreaking havoc, like a certain someone whose name begins with V did.

Speaking of drama and of being dramatic...

Oh yes, I'm a Nazi since I think we've done a good job of keeping this forum from devolving into notging but spam and trolls and MTR-ness.

I feel like I can't win here. One week I have someone sending me angry PMs saying we don't moderate enough, now I have a fellow moderator calling me a Nazi.

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

I don't think anyone called you a Nazi yet, but you do win the Godwin's Law Award for being the first to being it up.  Some posts should be merged and some should not, but it's all content-based, not just because they appear next to each other.  No one's suggesting you are the equivalent of the Soup Nazi.

Actually, someone did call me a Nazi:

Well, we're succeeding and that's what matters. 

That sounds so incredibly Nazi.

So no, I was not the first to bring that up.

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

At least you did not open a new thread for your dramatic announcement; nevertheless, please respect the sentiment providing the foundation for Rule 16:

- Opening a thread announcing that you're leaving. Sorry, but no one really cares.

I did not "announce" I was leaving, and don't consider myself to have violated that guideline: the point of it was to tell people it's not acceptable to clutter up the forum with threads saying things like "I'm going away for a week" or "I need to focus on other things and am leaving this forum for now" or "Screw you guys, I'm going home". Not to enforce against people who say in a post that they're taking a break or are going to lay off moderating for a while. If you truly wanted to enforce that guideline that anally, I guess we ought to go back and warn everyone who ever posted about a roadtrip they're going on, or mentioned in a post that they'll be gone for a while (which I have seen multiple times).
It wasn't the clearest sentence, but I was trying to say that I was done for the night, and that I am done trying to moderate you guys because I'm sick of things like this.

This is another example.

You guys always want to have a discussion, but I get the same reaction if I post something perfectly civil like my last post as I would if I horribly disfigured the forum.

[Grzrd]

I did not "announce" I was leaving

Really? How else was I suppose to understand the below?:

I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

I ... don't consider myself to have violated that guideline

Read my post again. I did not say that you violated the guideline.

I am done trying to moderate you guys because I'm sick of things like this.

Am I correct in interpreting this statement as an announcement that you will no longer attempt to moderate on this Forum?

[corco]

How?

Uniformity in itself promotes professionalism, and professionalism inherently promotes higher quality content, whether consciously processed or not. SaMe rEaSoN i WoUlD gEt In TrOuBlE fOr PoStInG lIkE tHiS- it's still readable, and my content is the same, but you very likely would process a body of posts that read like that in a different way than if I posted normally- the focus would be on the way the words are written and not on the words, which makes people process the thought differently. If everybody posted with alternating capital letters, regular readers would probably get used to it (which is why if we settle on one standard that's fine), but outsiders would think we're fucking crazy. That's an extreme example, but the same applies to post merges/not merging. If people do it in different ways, that's going to cause the way things are posted to be interpreted differently, which detracts from the conversation.

[Grzrd]

the focus would be on the way the words are written and not on the words

In a post-merge, the moderator does not change the way the words are written; the moderator merely merges them into one post.  Your example changed the way the words were written. Post-merge or no post-merge, the focus does not depart from the words.

the same applies to post merges/not merging. If people do it in different ways, that's going to cause the way things are posted to be interpreted differently, which detracts from the conversation.

There are countless examples of post-merges on this forum.  Please provide one concrete example where a post-merge caused you to interpret a post differently.

[kphoger]

As little problem as I have with post merges, I too contest the idea that merging posts or keeping them separate fosters uniformity in any meaningful way.  I'd say far more difference in meaning is conveyed by sentence structure, spelling and grammar, length of post, vocabulary, paragraphing, use of quotes, style, and more than by merging or segregating posts.

In the example of capitalization, I agree that the way we process the information changes with alternating capital letters.  But that, to my thinking, is nothing akin to any treatment of multiple posts.  I think our minds are quite capable of skipping over the additional header in the case of separate posts, or creating a separation in the case of a single post with multiple points–much more so than of handling the way the words themselves are actually written.  In short, I really don't see myself interpreting things differently based on that criterion, and it's hard for me to imagine someone else doing so–at least, more than based on myriad other criteria which are in no way contested.

[corco]

There are countless examples of post-merges on this forum.  Please provide one concrete example where a post-merge caused you to interpret a post differently.

I can't provide a concrete example of an opinion, but you knew that already. Any time it happens, my first thought is "why didn't that person just write one post?" Then I think "they must be trying to cause trouble" and then I take what they say less seriously.

That said! If we changed the uniform standard to allow for consecutive posts and ditched the post merge function, I probably wouldn't think of those that way. I'm still not in favor of that because I like that recent post lists and it does cause more scrolling, but as I said it isn't a huge deal.

[bugo]

I find it fitting that this topic has 264 posts in it while a topic I started about a brand new road extension that has never been mentioned on this forum has one reply.

[J N Winkler]

Oh yes, I'm a Nazi since I think we've done a good job of keeping this forum from devolving into nothing but spam and trolls and MTR-ness.

I feel like I can't win here. One week I have someone sending me angry PMs saying we don't moderate enough, now I have a fellow moderator calling me a Nazi.

You guys are way too god damn dramatic. I'm done. I can't stand this forum for more than a week or two at a time before something drives me away again, so I guess I'll just love roads on my own.

And this is why some of us are saying you're too young to be a moderator.

I don't see what's immature about that? Something an immature little kid would do is go and post something with lots of foul language complaining about people, and then go on some rampage editing things they shouldn't, and deleting things, and wreaking havoc, like a certain someone whose name begins with V did.

Maturity is something that comes in stages.  Most of us are mature enough not to react to opposition as Voyager (or whatever his name was) did.  But another stage of maturity is not to react to criticism (whether constructive or not) by throwing toys out of the pram, which is what "I'm done.  I can't stand this forum more than one week at a time," etc. amounts to.

Not every post needs a response.  It also doesn't necessarily serve the forum's best interests to have the standard sanction applied to every instance of a rule violation.  Sometimes there is no good solution to a particular problem, so the best you can do is to demonstrate an effort to act equitably and with good will.  And while some moderating actions may cry out for a public defense, the motivation for offering such should always be building confidence in the integrity of the moderators, never self-exculpation or burnishing one's own reputation.

When I was acting as the chief moderator for SABRE, I had to referee a case where Party B insulted Party A.  Party B's wife had just given birth to a new baby, and in a thread dealing with the special extra-width parent-and-child parking spaces that are provided at many British supermarkets, Party A implied that people who have children (and thus use parent-and-child parking spaces) are selfishly free-riding on the community at large.  Party B's insult was a heated response to this comment, so while he had broken the rules, he had done so under provocation.

When Party A's complaint came in by PM, I sent a PM to Party B acknowledging that he had acted under provocation but telling him that he should not do it again.  He apologized for the insult and I passed this on to Party A, telling him that I proposed to take no further action.  The next I heard from Party A was a complaint, made in the public part of the forum and repeated on several separate occasions, that he had been publicly insulted and the moderating team had allowed Party B to get away scot-free.

What did I do at this point?  I said nothing.  I felt I had handled the situation appropriately, by dealing with the parties in confidence so that neither would experience the humiliation (which I thought unnecessary) of a public slapdown or forced apology.  Since no other member of the forum seemed inclined to take up Party A's complaints, I felt there was nothing to be gained, and possibly much to be lost, by exposing this particular moderating decision to the public gaze.  Did it irritate me to be accused of unfairness and partiality?  Of course.  Did I vent this irritation in a public part of the forum?  Never.

[hbelkins]

SaMe rEaSoN i WoUlD gEt In TrOuBlE fOr PoStInG lIkE tHiS- it's still readable...

I disagree. That's not readable at all. It takes a lot of effort to read that mixed cap crap. It's the posting version of the duck face photograph.

Oh, and Steve. Don't hurt the cat. It's an innocent furry little thing.   

[Stratuscaster]

Much of this discussion is very familiar to me, as I'm an admin/moderator on a few forums myself.

It's true that "you can't win." Don't look at it as "winning" anything. Know going into it that not everyone is going to agree with what you do, but if you are following the guidelines for moderating that particular forum, that is what matters. See a post that probably belongs merged with an existing thread? Merge it in there. See a post that belongs in a different subforum or category? Move it there. Someone uses foul language or is trolling? Warn them (if your forum supports that) and hide/edit the post - and give the reason why ("violated Terms Of Service Rule #5" or whatever).

I'm more than happy to talk to someone via PM or email or whatever if there's an issue. I'm not at all happy when someone decides to air it out in a new or existing thread.

For what it's worth, I don't think this forum is over-moderated at all. In some instances, it could probably use a little MORE moderation, but only because there are a few users that should really know better.

[corco]

I disagree. That's not readable at all. It takes a lot of effort to read that mixed cap crap. It's the posting version of the duck face photograph.

Yeah, That Was Probably An Excessive Example. Maybe I Should Have Said It's Like Posting Like This...Still Readable But Really Annoying To Read

[Takumi]

I disagree. That's not readable at all. It takes a lot of effort to read that mixed cap crap. It's the posting version of the duck face photograph.

Yeah, That Was Probably An Excessive Example. Maybe I Should Have Said It's Like Posting Like This...Still Readable But Really Annoying To Read

I. Read. That. Like. Stopping. After. Every. Word. Like. This.

[NE2]

Or  like  that   guy    with   a   sticky   spacebar...

[Alps]

Or  like  that   guy    with   a   sticky   spacebar...

|O|

[agentsteel53]

duck face

going off topic, can anyone explain this meme to me?  knowyourmeme.com isn't very helpful other than to note "yep, it happens".

[J N Winkler]

My interpretation of the "duck face" meme:  the pout is supposed to be sexy (in a pre-Raphaelite sort of way) but in practice comes across as self-conscious and silly.